canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => EOS Bodies - For Stills => Topic started by: haggie on March 03, 2018, 05:23:45 AM

Title: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: haggie on March 03, 2018, 05:23:45 AM
This morning I was told that in The Netherlands the prices of several Canon camera bodies have gone up in price exorbitantly.
For instance, the 80D was € 989 and now is € 1199, the 7D Mk II was € 1369 and now is € 1639. This are increases in price of 20%. Nearly all major stores have changed their priices accordingly.

Not all camera's seem to be affected, though.

In Germany prices are (still) what they were, though.

Does anyone know what is going on?
Canon Europe has its office in The Netherlands, so could this be an indication for what is to come?


PM   I just corrected a typo: I wrote "60D" where I meant the price for the "80D".
       Sorry if that caused any confusion ..... :-\
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: candyman on March 03, 2018, 05:41:09 AM
Dear Haggie,


If you visit the Dutch webshops you will see that all those cameras are listed for a special cashback action of Canon. So, they increase the price first, offer cashback and netto you pay the same price as without cashback.
This is going on for years. I dislike that and it seems they can get away with it. Just wait until it is over. Also webshops do not really compete on prices. They all keep  roughly or exact the same price.
No fun to buy in the Netherlands
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: haggie on March 03, 2018, 08:03:16 AM

If you visit the Dutch webshops you will see that all those cameras are listed for a special cashback action of Canon. So, they increase the price first, offer cashback and netto you pay the same price as without cashback.


Hi candyman,
that is what I thought at first also. But this Cash Back Action applies only when you buy one of the selected lenses in combination with one of the selected bodies ('Virtual Kit Promotion').
When you buy the 80D or 7D Mk II body only, the increased price is the price you pay: no Cash Back for that.
Also, the prices of the 80D and 7D Mk II cameras in combo with their kit lenses have been increased by the same, and high, amount.

Looking a bit further, I just saw that the 6D Mk II is also part of this Cash Back Action but that the price of this body has not been increased. The same price as before goed there, and that price has just been decreased not so long ago.
And the price of the 5D Mk IV, also part of the Cash back, is also the same as before.

This supports the idea that the Cash Back is not the reason for this selective price increase for specific Canon bodies.
So there must be something else.
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: candyman on March 03, 2018, 08:18:37 AM
You might be right. But it is not so much the kind of cashback deal. It is more the fact that it HAS a cashbackdeal. For example the 6D II was €1949 without cashback - now it is €2029. I can guarantee you that when the cashback is finished, the 6D MK II will go down in price again. The 6D with cashback €1879. Seriously? Without cashback it was around 1400. The Canon 5D MK IV with C-log was €4299. It does not have cashback. The current price is stil €4299.
There is a chashback on the Canon 80D and the Canon 7D MK II as well - body only and in combination with purchase of a lens.

I check prices everyday because I look for a great occasion deal. And while I am busy doing that, I check the new prices as well. I have a fair picture of price changes.
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: haggie on March 03, 2018, 09:54:01 AM

I have had another look, and I think you are not fully correct, candyman.   :)


For example the 6D II was €1949 without cashback - now it is €2029. I can guarantee you that when the cashback is finished, the 6D MK II will go down in price again.

There is indeed a Cash Back for camera bodies: but for (selected) Full Frame bodies only! The start of this particular Cash Back was on February 1.
There are indeed stores that upped the 6D Mk II's price a bit. Others still use the 'old' price of € 1949.
And to avoid confusion: the Cash Back is not already deducted in this € 1949: this is what you pay at these stores, and you claim your Cash Back at Canon afterwards.



The 6D with cashback €1879. Seriously? Without cashback it was around 1400.

Sorry, I don't understand this bit. The 6D is old and therefore indeed a lot cheaper than the 6D Mk II.



There is a chashback on the Canon 80D and the Canon 7D MK II as well - body only and in combination with purchase of a lens.

There WAS a Cash Back that involved the 80D and 7D Mk II. But that ended a while back.
According to the Canon website, presently there are 2 Cash Backs.
The 'Spring Promotion Cash Back': for selected 5D models and the 6D Mk II, together with a few EF-lenses. This is the 'Full Frame' Cash backs I mentioned earlier.
The 'Lens Promotion CAMERA + LENS = CASHBACK': here you get a Cash Back for selected lenses, but only when bought in combination with one of the camera bodies that Canon selected. That is why only the lenses have a Cash Back-amount in € with them, and not the camera bodies.
The camera bodies, and also cameras with only a kit lens do not qualify for Cash Back at this point in time.

To sum up.
-There is a Cash Back for Full Frame cameras; the 80D and 7D Mk II are not part of that Cash back for obvious reasons.
-There is a Cash back that mentions the 80D and 7D Mk II, but that Cash Back is to promote lenses and Cash Back is only for selected lenses (only) if bought in combination with selected camera bodies. But you get no Cash Back for only an 80D or 7D Mk II body (and also not in combination with the kit lens).

This leaves only one conclusion: Cash Back actions have nothing to do with the sudden and extreme price increase that Canon made for the 80D and 7D Mk II in The Netherlands.


And so I still see these questions:
- Why did a few days ago the prices of some camera bodies go up 20% or even a bit more?
- Why specifically these camera bodies?
- And why (apparently) only in the Netherlands?
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: Photorex on March 03, 2018, 01:27:00 PM
I would guess that the increase in price for the 80D and the 7DMII could be related to the fact that these two bodies will updated soon to 90D and 7DMIII. So Canon can lift the start price of these bodies as well and the older ones then look cheap in relation. ::)

The 6DMII and the 5DMIV on the other hand are not due to be updated soon.

Frank
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: candyman on March 03, 2018, 01:48:24 PM

To be fair I looked into Cameranu and Cameratools only.
They seem to keep their offers and prices the same.
The type of cashback offer does not matter. For all the products that have a cashback label they increased the price.
 
Other shops like Kamera Express or Cameraland did not increase prices for all products that offer cashback
But all shops increased the price for 80D and 7D MK II.
The 80D and 7D MKII are listed with a cashback offer in Cameratools, Kamera Express and Cameranu. It's offer is a lens cashback. So they are connected to a cashback offer (hence a lens cashback)


For those shops that increased the price on products labeled with cashback offer can be made an example:
Original price (lastweeks/months) of 6D : €1499
Price in Cashback period - Cameranu and Cameratools - is €1879
I find it difficult to see the logic behind this cashback offer.
It says: buy the 6D now for €1879 and you benefit from a cashback offer when choosing a lens from the list
If a customer goes for that offer - and there are customers doing that - they spent more than if they would have purchased the camera some time ago....or wait.
To make it even worse certain lenses listed in the cashback offer also went up in price! Like 100-400 II, 70-200 f/2.8 IS II, 24-70 f/2.8 II and so on.


So you pay €1879 for the camera, buy the 100-400 II for €2419 and deduct €125 for the cashback offer for this lens = €4173
Normal price 6D €1499 and normal price 100-400 II €2129 = €3628
So very nice this cashback offer but advice is given: think twice and do your research....or wait
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: candyman on March 03, 2018, 01:56:39 PM
I would guess that the increase in price for the 80D and the 7DMII could be related to the fact that these two bodies will updated soon to 90D and 7DMIII. So Canon can lift the start price of these bodies as well and the older ones then look cheap in relation. ::)

The 6DMII and the 5DMIV on the other hand are not due to be updated soon.

Frank


Yes, if the 80D and 7D MK II were the only products with increased price, one could conclude it might be related to upcoming new versions of those products.
However there are price increasements for other DSLRs and lenses. And most of them are direct or indirect connected to the cashback offerings.
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: haggie on March 03, 2018, 02:20:00 PM
I would guess that the increase in price for the 80D and the 7DMII could be related to the fact that these two bodies will updated soon to 90D and 7DMIII. So Canon can lift the start price of these bodies as well and the older ones then look cheap in relation. ::)


I think you make a valid point here, Photorex.
It could well be a 'strategic' thing rather than pricing of the 7D per se. My initial idea that this were the first sign of huge price increases for Canon puzzled me because of what I recently heard about Canon's pricing policy for the 7D Mk II.

I must say that I also really like the idea that this might be a sign of the 7D Mk III coming soon. 
A bit of wishful thinking helps you through these cold days!      :)

Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on March 03, 2018, 05:08:40 PM
I had thought that exchange rates might be a factor, but the euro has been increasing in value versus the Yen, so prices should be dropping.
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: Talys on March 03, 2018, 06:36:22 PM
I had thought that exchange rates might be a factor, but the euro has been increasing in value versus the Yen, so prices should be dropping.

There might also be an issue of tax inclusion in the European price?
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: Valvebounce on March 03, 2018, 08:47:16 PM
Hi Talys.
I think Mt Spokane was saying the increase may have been due to exchange rates (except that the exchange rate went the wrong way for that to be the cause!) not directly compare price discrepancy between the two currencies plus I believe the original complaint was a European tax inclusive pre increase price comparison to a European tax inclusive post increase price so nothing to do with prices inclusive or exclusive of tax!

Cheers, Graham.

I had thought that exchange rates might be a factor, but the euro has been increasing in value versus the Yen, so prices should be dropping.

There might also be an issue of tax inclusion in the European price?
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: mistaspeedy on March 04, 2018, 12:32:56 AM
I am currently in the Netherlands, and have also noticed many prices going up (but not all).

It seems they are shuffling their line-up around a little bit. I didnt notice any cash back offers.

Many Canon lenses got more expensive, and well as camera bodies like the 800D and 77D. 750D remained the same, whilst the 200D with kit lens got cheaper.
I cant remember every change that was made, but many things were shuffled around.
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: AlanF on March 04, 2018, 04:22:15 AM
The prices rises are very selective. The 100-400mm II has gone up dramatically in the UK. Was its price dropped to hit the new Tamron 100-400mm? Here's price chart taken from ePhotozine.
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: haggie on March 04, 2018, 04:47:52 AM
The 100-400mm II has gone up dramatically in the UK. Was its price dropped to hit the new Tamron 100-400mm? Here's price chart taken from ePhotozine.

Hi AlanF. The 100-400 II increased a lot in price in The Netherlands too.
A while ago the price was reduced from € 2069 to € 1989. But since a couple of days its price went op to € 2419. Again, a significant price increas of little over 20%.


The prices rises are very selective.

This was my conclusion also.
And in particular the price increases for the 80D and 7D Mk II surprise me. First of all, the price increase is very high: 20% or over 20%. Secondly, this large price increase happens in The Netherlands and not in Germany or France.
So I wondered what is happening.


Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: aceflibble on March 05, 2018, 09:25:55 AM
According to local stores, the prices here in the UK are expected to come back down by the end of the year. It's mostly a case of Canon using the dipping value of the pound to get their profit margins back up. I can only assume that the rest of the EU is also having the price rise so it doesn't look like just one place is being picked out. This is similar to Fuji's EU price hike a year ago.

Basically, like with everything else in the EU right now, blame Brexit and Theresa May.
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: Mikehit on March 05, 2018, 12:07:38 PM
Hi Talys.
I think Mt Spokane was saying the increase may have been due to exchange rates (except that the exchange rate went the wrong way for that to be the cause!) not directly compare price discrepancy between the two currencies plus I believe the original complaint was a European tax inclusive pre increase price comparison to a European tax inclusive post increase price so nothing to do with prices inclusive or exclusive of tax!

Cheers, Graham.

I had thought that exchange rates might be a factor, but the euro has been increasing in value versus the Yen, so prices should be dropping.

There might also be an issue of tax inclusion in the European price?

Using exchange rates to explain price shifts is always dicey, especially with Japanese companies because they will probably buy raw materials etc in dollars and they may do cost projections in dollars so it is not the Euro rate shift that is important but the dollar shift - and even then they may be amortising costs from many months ago.
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: AlanF on March 05, 2018, 01:27:16 PM
According to local stores, the prices here in the UK are expected to come back down by the end of the year. It's mostly a case of Canon using the dipping value of the pound to get their profit margins back up. I can only assume that the rest of the EU is also having the price rise so it doesn't look like just one place is being picked out. This is similar to Fuji's EU price hike a year ago.

Basically, like with everything else in the EU right now, blame Brexit and Theresa May.

That argument doesn't hold water. Canon had already adjusted the UK prices for the falling pound, which has been at its present level for about 18 months. The Canon 100-400mm II is a typical example of a lens that has gone up by 25%.  Netherlands, Germany etc  have had the same price hikes as the UK and their prices are within a few % of the UK's (2300-2400€ vs £2000. The 400mm DO II, which hasn't had price hikes is slightly cheaper in Germany than the UK (7029€ vs £6500). The differences in price are within currency fluctuations and the differences in VAT.

I don't think either you can blame Mrs May for the racist regimes in former East Bloc EU countries and the rise in extreme right wing parties in Austria, Greece, Italy etc.
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: aceflibble on March 05, 2018, 02:06:29 PM
^You really need to work on your reading comprehension because wow you could not have missed the point, or the joke, any more than that.
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: AlanF on March 05, 2018, 02:27:48 PM
^You really need to work on your reading comprehension because wow you could not have missed the point, or the joke, any more than that.

Accusing others of lacking "reading comprehension" seems to be your stock insult.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=32992.msg673830#msg673830

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=34618.msg711194#msg711194
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: Mikehit on March 05, 2018, 04:37:38 PM
^You really need to work on your reading comprehension because wow you could not have missed the point, or the joke, any more than that.
If the joke falls flat maybe you ought to look at the way you tell them.
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: aceflibble on March 06, 2018, 10:49:44 AM
Okay, let's break this down.

That argument doesn't hold water.
That argument
argument

It's not an 'argument', it's reporting the supplied information. There is no 'argument' being made.

There, job done. Do you see how easy that was?

 
edit:
Oh, and
Accusing others of lacking "reading comprehension" seems to be your stock insult.
It's not an insult, it's an observation. The fact that you are so quick to see "arguments" and "insults" everywhere suggests you are purposefully looking to be as combative as possible, just for the sake of it. Again, reading comprehension is your friend. I am not responsible for you or others choosing to forgo it.
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: neuroanatomist on March 06, 2018, 02:00:27 PM
It's not an 'argument', it's reporting the supplied information. There is no 'argument' being made.

ar·gu·ment  ˈärɡyəmənt  noun
1. an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one.
2. a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.

Statements like, “According to...,” and, “It’s mostly a case of...,” and, “This is similar to...,” and, “Basically, like with everything else...,” are clearly commensurate with you making an argument as covered by definition #2 above.

Making an argument should not be confused with being argumentative, although in this case, both clearly apply to you.

If the above is too challenging for your reading comprehension level, I’ll simplify: you’re being an ass.
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: haggie on March 07, 2018, 02:25:56 PM
Hi neuro,

now you entered this thread,  :)
what is your idea on the extreme and selective price increases on some Canon gear in Holland?

What I find peculiar is that:
-the price increase is quite high - 20 % or even a bit higher;
-it applies to specific Canon camera's (the 80D and 7D Mk II) and others are not or hardly affected (some lenses are also affected, but again: not all);
-these price increases has been in Holland only (at least until yesterday).

I cannot see any common characteristic on the equipment that is involved: it are not the most recent models, it is not restricted to e.g. cropped gear (e.g. the EF 100-400 II also increased tremendously in price).
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: Rampuri on March 07, 2018, 03:02:23 PM

what is your idea on the extreme and selective price increases on some Canon gear in Holland?


The prices have been increased in Slovakia as well. 7D mark II and 80D are +/- for the same price like you mentioned. 6D mark II has gone 80 euros up and 5DS and 5DS R maybe 200 euros.

I was just about to buy 6D mark II at the end of March :-/
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: neuroanatomist on March 07, 2018, 03:07:56 PM
what is your idea on the extreme and selective price increases on some Canon gear in Holland?

No idea.  As was pointed out in another thread, manufacturers will sometimes raise prices prior to offering a discount (the discount bringing the price to the previous regular price).  Some countries prohibit such practices (I have no idea if Holland is among them), so to get around that manufacturers will adjust prices with enough of a delay prior to the discount to avoid the regulation.
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: Don Haines on March 07, 2018, 03:41:46 PM
It's not an 'argument', it's reporting the supplied information. There is no 'argument' being made.

ar·gu·ment  ˈärɡyəmənt  noun
1. an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one.
2. a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.

Statements like, “According to...,” and, “It’s mostly a case of...,” and, “This is similar to...,” and, “Basically, like with everything else...,” are clearly commensurate with you making an argument as covered by definition #2 above.

Making an argument should not be confused with being argumentative, although in this case, both clearly apply to you.

If the above is too challenging for your reading comprehension level, I’ll simplify: you’re being an ass.
this is an international site.... for many, English is not their first language so a lot of the nuances are lost on them... on the other hand, a lot of the nuances are lost on native speakers. Your explanation is great, but the last line was not needed... come on, you are better than that....
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: cinema-dslr on March 07, 2018, 03:51:10 PM
what is your idea on the extreme and selective price increases on some Canon gear in Holland?

No idea.  As was pointed out in another thread, manufacturers will sometimes raise prices prior to offering a discount (the discount bringing the price to the previous regular price).  Some countries prohibit such practices (I have no idea if Holland is among them), so to get around that manufacturers will adjust prices with enough of a delay prior to the discount to avoid the regulation.

Good point!
It might be a prelude of a birders "special discount" coming soon, as the  affected items seem to be crop bodies and longer lenses
Title: Re: What is going on with Canon's prices in Europe?
Post by: Patlezinc on March 13, 2018, 03:05:39 AM
At photophil.de you can find the 6dII at 1739€. After cashback it is 1539€.
My wife just ordered one there (and with a rebate of 40€ Because affiliate to a french forum it is 1499€ + 29€ for shipping). At this price it is a good option.
Same with 5d4. Finishes at 3099€.