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Rumors => Third Party Manufacturers => Topic started by: canonnews on March 06, 2018, 09:59:25 AM

Title: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: canonnews on March 06, 2018, 09:59:25 AM

Elinchrom Introduces the ELB 500 TTL, The Most Powerful Portable TTL Light Ever.

The new ELB 500 TTL is the most powerful and portable TTL light ever designed for adventurous portrait photographers shooting both in studio and on location.

Today, Elinchrom introduces the ELB 500 TTL, an incredibly portable and powerful battery pack combining 500Ws of power with a feature set including TTL, High Speed Sync, Active Charging, Full Asymmetry with built-in Skyport designed to empower the workflow of portrait photographers both in studio and on location.

Speed & Simplicity with TTL

The ELB 500 TTL is ideal for photographers who find themselves in time sensitive shooting environments where the inherent speed of TTL lets them capture images at the speed of life or for those who simply prefer the convenience of TTL.

The “Manual Lock” functionality allows photographers to get an initial “lock” on their exposure in TTL and then switch to manual mode to further adjust their exposure as they need or to explore different creative effects.

500 Ws Power & Performance in an incredibly portable package

The ELB 500 TTL is powerful enough to overpower the sun, delivers 400 full power flashes on a single charge and has a fast recycling time of 2 seconds at max power, ensuring you won’t miss an important moment.

The ELB 500 TTL head is smaller than speedlites yet delivers 10 times more power. It is lightweight enough to be mounted on a camera bracket or boom arm while on location.

“We created the ELB 500TTL for portrait photographers looking to take their work to more adventurous places with what we believe to be the perfect combination of power, features and value.”

Simon Whittle, CEO – Elinchrom

The Versatility of HSS, Asymmetry & Active Charging

High Speed Sync lets photographers freeze motion with incredible sharpness, create a narrow depth of field, or darken overly bright backgrounds using a high shutter speed (up to 1/8000sec). With the new ELB 500 TTL, not having to worry about flash sync limitations or the time of day makes for a very liberating creative experience.

Full asymmetry across two lamp connections provides a broader range of creative control. Active Charging provides the freedom to charge the battery while actively shooting in studio, making it perfect for an uninterrupted workflow.

The ELB 500 TTL’s native Q-Mount (Quadra Mount) is seamlessly compatible with Elinchrom’s super-portable “Portalite” series of softboxes and can work with any of your favorite full-sized Elinchrom light modifiers.

Convenience & Control with Skyport® and Phottix ODIN II

The ELB 500 TTL features built-in Skyport, Elinchrom’s reliable and easy to use wireless system as well as Odin II functionality from Phottix. This lets a photographer trigger and control virtually any light or combination of lights in their collection with either Elinchrom or Phottix transmitters right from their camera.

Ease & Intuitiveness of a Brilliant User Interface

When the pressure is on to get the shot, no one ever wants to fumble with controls. The large OLED display and intuitive controls of the ELB 500 TTL makes using the pack a pleasure.

The Heritage, Quality & Value of Elinchrom

The ELB 500 TTL is the newest compact flash solution in a long line of innovative and ultra-reliable Elinchrom products that represent a decades-long commitment to crafting the highest quality lighting tools while providing superb value to their customers.

The Skyport Plus HS becomes an Elinchrom Transmitter Pro with TTL

Elinchrom is also pleased to announce a firmware update adding TTL control to the Skyport Plus HS for Canon and Nikon, other brands will follow. This new firmware update is available now.

The ELB 500 TTL is the most powerful and portable TTL light ever for portrait photographers looking to take their work to more adventurous places.

The ELB 500 TTL represents an optimal feature set for portrait photographers and is ideal for those looking to trade up to a more powerful option to their speedlights, trading over from less full- featured options or searching for the very best value in the category.

ELB 500 TTL Prices & Availability

The ELB 500 TTL is available starting today.

Street Price:

ELB 500 TTL To Go – $1899 USD €1699 EUR £1499 GBP

ELB 500 TTL Dual To Go – $2124 USD €1949 EUR £1749 GBP

ELB 500 TTL To Go Set Content

ELB 500 TTL To Go

N° 10309.1

ELB 500 TTL Dual To Go

N° 10310.1

ELB 500 TTL Specifications

Flash Power – 500 Ws/J Power Distribution – Full Asymmetry Power Range – 7 F-stops Best Flash Duration – Action: 1/20000s – Normal: 1/3400s Recycling Time – 0.05 – 2 seconds Dimensions (Unit + Battery) (LxWxH) – 16.3 x 9.0 x 18.1 cm Weight (Unit + Battery) – 2.48 kg Weight of Battery – 0.73 kg Battery – Removable – Li-Ion 14,4 V – 72 W/h Battery Capacity – 400 / 28000 flashes (full power/min. power) Compatibility – For Skyport: Elinchrom Transmitter Pro For Phottix: Phottix Odin II Transmitter ELB 500 TTL Unit Supplied With – Battery, Charger, Snappy, Location Bag, Sync Cable

Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Hector1970 on March 06, 2018, 10:14:46 AM
Hmmmm nice.
I would like this but it’s expensive (relative I know).
Godox do a nice job in this area but this is a nice piece of kit.
I must not buy more gear
I must not buy more gear
I must not buy more gear
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Velo Steve on March 06, 2018, 10:57:55 AM
What is it with units of measure and light?

Canon gives a guide number.
This announcement gives J/Ws, which would normally be read as Joules per Watt-second and cancel out to nothing.  It would better be written J (Ws) to indicate that these are to different but equivalent sets of units.
Biologists like moles of photons per second, formerly known as Einsteins/second.
Home lighting seems to come in watts, lumens, candlepower, or incandescent-equivalent-watts.
Solar system builders like Watts/m2 or even Langleys, or the equivalents integrated over a day.

Then you have a lot of small products which are bright, very bright, ultra bright, attacker-blinding, and other meaningless terms.

Of course picking one set of units and sticking with it doesn't solve problems of definition, interpretation, and measurement, but it would be a start. 
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: -pekr- on March 06, 2018, 11:02:56 AM
I love Elinchrom. Six years ago I have bought a book about photo studios, saw their gear and told to myself - I want these! I know, I am a desing and gear hunter. Recently, we do own studio lights, as well as a portable ELB 400 (hi-sync head), and we use it for the weddings promo shoots.

The thing is, that Elinchrom put way to much of an energy into an HSS vs HS department. HSS = low power output, color inconsistency, etc. It is a bit difficult to believe in HSS now :-)

Well, got some reply from Elinchrom on FB, stating, that ELB500 HSS has almost the same light output, as ELB400. Most probably at full power. Will have to wait for some more tests, interested to know, how do they manage the color consistency. ELB 400 had something like 250K, Profotos 800K or even higher?

Some ppl also prefer monoblocks, not cables, no hassle devices, as Profoto and Godox strobes. Some ppl prefer a lighter head, and using a battery pack as an eventual tripod counter-weight. Me, being lazy and assisting my wife, prefer the latter. Holding a 3kg monoblock in hands above my head for something like a minute, is a bit tricky to say the least :-)
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Quackator on March 06, 2018, 11:48:42 AM
Elinchrom USA lied in their marketing messages, saying that Hypersync would
be more effective and color consistent compared to true HSS.

Now they fall prey for their own lie, after they finally have HSS themselves.

And then they lie again, claiming their 500 Ws flash was more powerful than
the 600 Ws Godox. Not to mention that they take twice as much recycle
time compared to the Godox.

And finally, they don't even provide a protective glass dome over their flash tubes.
Suicide for a mobile system.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Talys on March 06, 2018, 11:53:06 AM
Looks great, and I love Elinchrom.  The shallowness of the strobes looks fantastic, and the less I can pack the better.  The problem, probably, is that they will be too expensive.

The only reason that I have a whole bunch of Elinchrom strobes is because at one point, there were relatively few options, they were all expensive, and Elinchrom was sold and stocked locally.  Then, I really grew to appreciate the quality of the product.

But now, at the high end, I just prefer Profoto.  And at the portable end, there are RT speedlights and elinchrom-mount compatible flash holders, plus really good rapid-setup softboxes that can have whatever mount you want.


@pekr - Yeah, their HSS vs HS thing was a bit over the top.  At the end of the day, I don't think anyone can tell the difference between the results one way or the other.  I'm perfectly happy with whatever as long as it's possible to set the shutter speed to what I want to set it to, and get something that looks like it's lit on that side :) 

It certainly isn't determinative of which system I go with.

And finally, they don't even provide a protective glass dome over their flash tubes.
Suicide for a mobile system.

Definitely a fair complaint.  OTOH, I don't pack my Elinchrom strobes for mobile anymore.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: -pekr- on March 06, 2018, 12:24:59 PM
Elinchrom USA lied in their marketing messages, saying that Hypersync would
be more effective and color consistent compared to true HSS.

Now they fall prey for their own lie, after they finally have HSS themselves.

And then they lie again, claiming their 500 Ws flash was more powerful than
the 600 Ws Godox. Not to mention that they take twice as much recycle
time compared to the Godox.

And finally, they don't even provide a protective glass dome over their flash tubes.
Suicide for a mobile system.

Well, let me narrow it down for you:

1) Elinchrom does not use HyperSync, that's a technology of a PocektWizard. Elinchrom has High-Sync (HS).
2) Their HS of ELB 400 is +/-250K, whereas Profoto B1 was measured at 800K or even above the 1K of a color difference.
3) They now have HSS, as ppl seem to want TTL, which is not otherwise possible, but to switch to the IGBT based strobes.
4) HSS might vary in implementations. Maximal power output is not a measure of the light output when using HSS. With ELB 500, Elinchrom states (and it has to be proven), that they have almost the same light output as with the ELB 400 using HS mode.
5) Have you ever used any such strobe, to care about its recycle time? I do use ELB400 regularly, ditto for their studio strobes. I never ever found that being a problem, unless you pray & spray. In such a case I would recommend to switch to a continuous lightning.
6) They've got plastic head cover. Have you EVER used or seen their kit in live?

Hope your life's a bit easier now :-)

Title: Elinchrom quality
Post by: jeffa4444 on March 06, 2018, 12:26:20 PM
Elinchrom USA lied in their marketing messages, saying that Hypersync would
be more effective and color consistent compared to true HSS.

Now they fall prey for their own lie, after they finally have HSS themselves.

And then they lie again, claiming their 500 Ws flash was more powerful than
the 600 Ws Godox. Not to mention that they take twice as much recycle
time compared to the Godox.

And finally, they don't even provide a protective glass dome over their flash tubes.
Suicide for a mobile system.
Have you actually ever used Elinchrom strobes? Ive used both the Godox and Elinchrom and now own Elinchrom strobes because unlike the Godox they are neutral and reproduce colours more accurately.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Talys on March 06, 2018, 01:58:02 PM
6) They've got plastic head cover. Have you EVER used or seen their kit in live?

I believe that what he's talking about is that when the plastic cap is off, and before you have some light modifier on it, both bulbs (flash and  modelling light) are exposed -- unlike profoto, for example.  I suppose, if you just have a simple reflector or if you're putting it into a westcott apollo type rig, or using an umbrella, the glass bulbs could be more vulnerable too. 

I should say that in 15+ years of using elinchrom strobes, I've never damaged a bulb, but the thought has crossed my mind.

Re: color - I have no idea what that's all about.  The color from Elinchrom strobes have been bang-on fantastic for me.  Cycling - cycling time on Elinchroms and HEAT MANAGEMENT are both awesome.  I've never heard a complaint there.

Basically, I look at Elinchrom's like Canon bodies.  Not super flashy, but extremely reliable and utilitarian, and a perhaps a little pricey on the pro end (but let's be honest, all European/North American lighting is -- it's only the cheap Chinese stuff that's, well, cheap).  They get the job done.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: LDS on March 06, 2018, 02:36:11 PM
I believe that what he's talking about is that when the plastic cap is off, and before you have some light modifier on it, both bulbs (flash and  modelling light) are exposed -- unlike profoto, for example.  I suppose, if you just have a simple reflector or if you're putting it into a westcott apollo type rig, or using an umbrella, the glass bulbs could be more vulnerable too. 

Some of their lamps do offer optional domes (some in frost/transparent versions as well). Not these ones, I'm afraid, if they are like the Quadra, they are rather small.

Modelling light here is a LED one, so little exposed but to weather.

Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Viggo on March 06, 2018, 02:58:55 PM
I feel all the horrible memories from my old Quadra comes rushing back when I see this, lol  ;D
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: hne on March 06, 2018, 03:52:19 PM
I feel all the horrible memories from my old Quadra comes rushing back when I see this, lol  ;D

What was horrible with the quadra? Quadra, ELB400 and ELB500 are now top 3 on my want list...
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Viggo on March 06, 2018, 04:46:33 PM
I feel all the horrible memories from my old Quadra comes rushing back when I see this, lol  ;D

What was horrible with the quadra? Quadra, ELB400 and ELB500 are now top 3 on my want list...

I had to have the manual with me because of the ridiculous display. The mount was super-flimsy, and I had to spend 150 USD for an adapter to use the standard modifiers. The rubber sealing on the battery pack came off all the time. The battery pack and cable made it impossible to carry the light stand horizontally and carrying vertically was a PITA. No HSS or HS, no display on the flimsy transmitter, with antenna, lol. Had to chose heads for different type of shots. I really liked the Deep Octa, but they didn’t make a grid for it either.. I replaced it with the ad360 that was so much better and lighter and cheaper with HSS. But also poor build quality and the useless batter pack and cable  :P

If I was going to buy a lamp today Elinchrom would be way down on my list.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: AJ on March 06, 2018, 11:59:35 PM
The ELB 500 TTL is powerful enough to overpower the sun
That is quite a marketing claim.  The sun emits about 3.86 x 1026 watts of energy.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: CanonFanBoy on March 07, 2018, 01:28:56 AM
I'll just take one of these: https://www.adorama.com/fplfx600ptbc.html

More powerful, more compact, a lot less money, TTL, and HSS.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Talys on March 07, 2018, 01:32:26 AM
The ELB 500 TTL is powerful enough to overpower the sun
That is quite a marketing claim.  The sun emits about 3.86 x 1026 watts of energy.

It is an absolutely true marketing claim. 

The distance of the sun to earth is about 149,597,870,700 meters.  The inverse square law (which light follows) states that the intensity of light is inversely proportional to the square of the distance.  Or, in plainspeak, if you a light at 1 meter away is four times brighter than the same light at 2 meters, and 16 times as bright as the same light at 4 meters.

So even thought the sun is very, very bright, it's so far away that it's easy to "overpower".

The bad news for the marketing person is that EVERY strobe, or even practically any speedlight, can overpower the sun at some distance

It's easy to test: take a photo of a bug.  Now, set the camera into manual mode, set the same exposure settings, and take a photo of the same bug, triggering the flash off camera, 1 cm from the bug.  Instead of the sun, all you'll get is a white spot where the bug was.

For strobists, "overpowering the sun" just means that you can have the sun behind the subject, and with the strobe just a few feet away from the subject, it's possible to get a great exposure.  In fact, the sun being behind the subject can create a beautiful effect.  Obviously, strobes are better than speedlights for this, because they're just brighter.  And that matters even more if you want to put it behind a light modifier like a beauty dish.  Also, because if you keep firing that 600EXRT at 100% power, a day's shoot will go through a bag full of AA's :D


I'll just take one of these: https://www.adorama.com/fplfx600ptbc.html

More powerful, more compact, a lot less money, TTL, and HSS.

Those are great strobes!  I kind of wish I had a set of them.

However, comparing them with Elinchrom's is kind of like comparing a Godox softbox with a Westcott one.  They do the same thing.  They all work.  Nobody will ever know the difference.  Except if you make enough money using them, you'll end up buying the expensive ones, because one's just made better and takes a lot more abuse.

Although, I must say, I have been very impressed with Fotodiox Pro Studio softboxes of late.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: hne on March 07, 2018, 02:00:09 AM
The ELB 500 TTL is powerful enough to overpower the sun
That is quite a marketing claim.  The sun emits about 3.86 x 1026 watts of energy.

You are correct, if you ignore except physics and terminology.

Only about 1000W/m² reach sea level, of which about half is in the visible spectrum.

If you have a 500Ws strobe with 50% efficiency in the conversion to visible light and spread that light over 10m² you should be able to match the sun's brightness with a shutter speed of 1/20s. If you put that strobe in a softbox 3m from your subject, you're spreading light  much more: half sphere with 3m radius is 56m² but a softbox has falloff toward the sides so we can lower that in reality but even if we ignore that, you'd be at 1/100s to match the sun. Subtract a stop of light for turning on HSS and you get 1/200s. With HSS on, the strobe is a continuous light for the duration of your exposure so aperture and shutter don't change the balance with ambient. Thus, shutter speed is irrelevant.

I believe the claim that you can overpower the sun with an ELB 500 TTL even when the heads are stuck in softboxes at a distance of a couple of metres. If you use a reflector to get a concentrated beam, you could get several stops even with two heads.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Quackator on March 07, 2018, 05:55:42 AM
1) Elinchrom does not use HyperSync, that's a technology of a PocektWizard. Elinchrom has High-Sync (HS).

Surprise, surprise - that is just another name for the same thing.
Whether they call it High Sync, Super Sync, Hot Sync, Overdrive Sync
ow whatever else - it is always a copy of the original LPA Design
(Pocket Wizard) technology.

2) Their HS of ELB 400 is +/-250K, whereas Profoto B1 was measured at 800K
or even above the 1K of a color difference.

I have seen that. Let me put it this way: One has to work really hard to
bend measurements towards this result.

4) HSS might vary in implementations. Maximal power output is not a measure
of the light output when using HSS. With ELB 500, Elinchrom states (and it has
to be proven), that they have almost the same light output as with the ELB 400
using HS mode.

Haha, so they say that their 500 Ws are almost as good as their 400 Ws?
Sounds excentric, bordering on bizarre, doesn't it?

5) Have you ever used any such strobe, to care about its recycle time?

I have well in excess of 100,000 Ws flash equipment, and I have used
pretty much everything the industry built over the last 40 years.

I never ever found that being a problem, unless you pray & spray.

Try group shots with large groups. There is always one who squints
or looks less flattering. Those groups have a very short attention span,
so you have to shoot a lot of frames before they disband and/or lose
their patience. Battery operated 1fps from a 1000 Ws head is no luxury, then.

In such a case I would recommend to switch to a continuous lightning.

You have no idea how much power in continuous lights you need to counter the sun, do you?

6) They've got plastic head cover. Have you EVER used or seen their kit in live?

Can you shoot with the protection cover on? No.
That's why a proper setup uses glass domes.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Quackator on March 07, 2018, 06:18:51 AM
I believe the claim that you can overpower the sun with an ELB 500 TTL even
when the heads are stuck in softboxes at a distance of a couple of metres.

You have to go really close, and due to the inverse square law the fall-off
behind your subject, even the fall-off from head to toe is dramatic.

More power helps to blend flash with ambient much better by being
able to make use of more distance, and thus enjoy a much smoother fall-off.

If you use a reflector to get a concentrated beam, you could get several
stops even with two heads.

Open metal reflectors are more efficient, yes.
But they create hard shadows again. Not what
you want, most of the times.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: -pekr- on March 07, 2018, 07:08:10 AM
I'll just take one of these: https://www.adorama.com/fplfx600ptbc.html

More powerful, more compact, a lot less money, TTL, and HSS.

Depends upon your purpose. When on a tripod, all is good (unless in windy outddor conditions with a big softbox). But wishing you a luck, if you just assist e.g. during the wedding, need to move more danymically, hand-holding this 3kg brick upon your head. Been there, done that - I am simply no Rambo :-)
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Viggo on March 07, 2018, 07:10:28 AM
«Haha, so they say that their 500 Ws are almost as good as their 400 Ws?
Sounds excentric, bordering on bizarre, doesn't it?»

Considering how much more power I get of my Bron with HS compared to my previous B1 with HSS, I find nothing weird about that statement. HSS eats power where HS just doesn’t.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: hne on March 07, 2018, 07:24:02 AM
«Haha, so they say that their 500 Ws are almost as good as their 400 Ws?
Sounds excentric, bordering on bizarre, doesn't it?»

Considering how much more power I get of my Bron with HS compared to my previous B1 with HSS, I find nothing weird about that statement. HSS eats power where HS just doesn’t.

Here's a full-power test between ELB 500 TTL and ELB 400 at 1/8000s: https://aifo.se/blogg/elinchrom-elb-500-ttl-test-bts/

Seems to me you get at least an extra stop using HS on the ELB 400 compared to HSS on the ELB 500 TTL.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Viggo on March 07, 2018, 07:34:47 AM
«Haha, so they say that their 500 Ws are almost as good as their 400 Ws?
Sounds excentric, bordering on bizarre, doesn't it?»

Considering how much more power I get of my Bron with HS compared to my previous B1 with HSS, I find nothing weird about that statement. HSS eats power where HS just doesn’t.

Here's a full-power test between ELB 500 TTL and ELB 400 at 1/8000s: https://aifo.se/blogg/elinchrom-elb-500-ttl-test-bts/

Seems to me you get at least an extra stop using HS on the ELB 400 compared to HSS on the ELB 500 TTL.

Exactly  :)

Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: CanonFanBoy on March 07, 2018, 07:38:10 AM
I'll just take one of these: https://www.adorama.com/fplfx600ptbc.html

More powerful, more compact, a lot less money, TTL, and HSS.

Depends upon your purpose. When on a tripod, all is good (unless in windy outddor conditions with a big softbox). But wishing you a luck, if you just assist e.g. during the wedding, need to move more danymically, hand-holding this 3kg brick upon your head. Been there, done that - I am simply no Rambo :-)

I'm no Rambo either. :) But for my purpose, photographing exhausted wedding photographers, a tripod works just fine.  ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: -pekr- on March 07, 2018, 07:54:19 AM
1) Elinchrom does not use HyperSync, that's a technology of a PocektWizard. Elinchrom has High-Sync (HS).

Surprise, surprise - that is just another name for the same thing.
Whether they call it High Sync, Super Sync, Hot Sync, Overdrive Sync
ow whatever else - it is always a copy of the original LPA Design
(Pocket Wizard) technology.

Great - we are all using cars - those do have engines and 4 wheels, but other than that, they are all identical in implementation.

2) Their HS of ELB 400 is +/-250K, whereas Profoto B1 was measured at 800K
or even above the 1K of a color difference.

I have seen that. Let me put it this way: One has to work really hard to
bend measurements towards this result.

Those measurements were done using the Sekonic C700 color meter. Suddenly and miraculously, 700-1000+K color difference does not matter, as it does not fit your argument? If those numbers were for an Elinchrom, I can bet you would be already dancing on their grave :-)

4) HSS might vary in implementations. Maximal power output is not a measure
of the light output when using HSS. With ELB 500, Elinchrom states (and it has
to be proven), that they have almost the same light output as with the ELB 400
using HS mode.

Haha, so they say that their 500 Ws are almost as good as their 400 Ws?
Sounds excentric, bordering on bizarre, doesn't it?

Eccentric, bizarre - are you talking your replies? :-) ELB 400 is voltage controlled unit, whereas ELB 500 is IGBT unit - completly different internals. So yes, ELB500 might be less powerful than ELB400, at certain situations. You attack Elinchrom's claims hardly, yet I wonder, if you know, how much of power output does Profoto marketing gives you for an acclaimed speeds of B1's 1/11000. Isn't it 2Ws. You can surely use it to ovepower sun ... eh, a light candle :-)

5) Have you ever used any such strobe, to care about its recycle time?

I have well in excess of 100,000 Ws flash equipment, and I have used
pretty much everything the industry built over the last 40 years.

Maybe you do, but then I don't undrestand your replies ....

I never ever found that being a problem, unless you pray & spray.

Try group shots with large groups. There is always one who squints
or looks less flattering. Those groups have a very short attention span,
so you have to shoot a lot of frames before they disband and/or lose
their patience. Battery operated 1fps from a 1000 Ws head is no luxury, then.


Large groups? And apart from 30-40 ppl you care if one looks somewhere else? If you can't keep your group organised for 10-20 secs, get an assistant :-) Also - you shoot groups in full power? If not, you can get more consecutive flashes for sure.

In such a case I would recommend to switch to a continuous lightning.

You have no idea how much power in continuous lights you need to counter the sun, do you?


You have no idea what idea I have. Some shoots are indoors, right? And I envy ppl who have money to buy stuff like Rotolight, Zylight F8 or Arri :-) ...

6) They've got plastic head cover. Have you EVER used or seen their kit in live?

Can you shoot with the protection cover on? No.
That's why a proper setup uses glass domes.

You seem to have patent just on everything. Whatever "proper" means in your book, might differin experience to others.

Man, you seem to be a professional, so I just wonder, if you have to downplay this Elinchrom new stuff so hardly :-)
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: -pekr- on March 07, 2018, 08:06:23 AM
I'll just take one of these: https://www.adorama.com/fplfx600ptbc.html

More powerful, more compact, a lot less money, TTL, and HSS.

Depends upon your purpose. When on a tripod, all is good (unless in windy outddor conditions with a big softbox). But wishing you a luck, if you just assist e.g. during the wedding, need to move more danymically, hand-holding this 3kg brick upon your head. Been there, done that - I am simply no Rambo :-)

I'm no Rambo either. :) But for my purpose, photographing exhausted wedding photographers, a tripod works just fine.  ;) ;) ;)

Photographing wedding photographers? Sounds like a new discipline and a business oportunity. Will have to think about it more :-)

No, really - I like the studio gear. Modern aproach is to use stuff like FF, fast primes, and no flash. I can see many ppl working with zero flashes, some switching to Sonys, etc.

When we started to do weddings 3 years ago, we took 2 softboxes, 2x Elinchrom RX600, 2 tripods, Godox 850 battery kit on the scene. It was a nice and big garden, local arboretum, many shoots are done there. There is plenty of locations in there. We were not able to move quickly.

So, now the strategy is - ELB400, Deep Octa and a helper monopod. We are walking with bride & groom, and shoot on 8-12 locations there. No time to collapse tripods, softboxes. We have cca 1:30hour max to do the work.

RX600 weighted someting like 2.3kg. Those battery based monoblocks are easily around 3kgs. So, in such conditions, I do prefer the ELB design upon monoblock. But - if you ask me, what I like more, then I can easily admit - monoblocks - looks sexy, cableless, hassle-free.

I use already some stuff from Godox, Aputure, etc., I might add some other equipment to our arsenal. But I need all that equipment to be complementary to some exent. I like e.g. Rotolight, but they imo ask way too much for what they offer, although they can be triggered by Elinchrom's Skyport in their latest generation.

So much cool new stuff around, and so little time/money to play with all of this :-)
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: privatebydesign on March 07, 2018, 08:15:58 AM
«Haha, so they say that their 500 Ws are almost as good as their 400 Ws?
Sounds excentric, bordering on bizarre, doesn't it?»

Considering how much more power I get of my Bron with HS compared to my previous B1 with HSS, I find nothing weird about that statement. HSS eats power where HS just doesn’t.

Here's a full-power test between ELB 500 TTL and ELB 400 at 1/8000s: https://aifo.se/blogg/elinchrom-elb-500-ttl-test-bts/

Seems to me you get at least an extra stop using HS on the ELB 400 compared to HSS on the ELB 500 TTL.

Exactly  :)

HSS does not "eat power" it is just the difference in the way the two types of exposure work. In HSS the light pulses which means, by definition, at times during the exposure the light is off; in contrast in 'HS' mode the light is always on but in longer over sync speed exposures (1/250-1/1000)  the duration of the flash becomes an issue in that the later part of the image doesn't get as much light as the first part.

The two systems fight against the sync issues in different ways and there is no right or wrong, just understand what you are trying to do and get a system that works better for that discipline.

For example, if you are relying on the flash exposure to freeze motion the shorter flash duration technology in HSS will give you better results, HS works by extending the flash duration so doesn't do as good a job. However if you are going for maximum 'separation' or 'over powering the sun' then HS will give you better results on a per power basis because the light is always on during the exposure.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: LDS on March 07, 2018, 10:06:40 AM
Can you shoot with the protection cover on? No.
That's why a proper setup uses glass domes.

You can with the Multifunctional Cap, although it also acts like a diffuser. With these lamps, Elinchrom choose a minimalist design which keeps them small and light - and for some people it's a plus. It's being around for a while, maybe not everybody has issues with it.

Larger lamps like ELB 1200 and Digital RX have domes, but they are also over 2 vs. 0.25 kg.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: hne on March 08, 2018, 02:44:32 AM
«Haha, so they say that their 500 Ws are almost as good as their 400 Ws?
Sounds excentric, bordering on bizarre, doesn't it?»

Considering how much more power I get of my Bron with HS compared to my previous B1 with HSS, I find nothing weird about that statement. HSS eats power where HS just doesn’t.

Here's a full-power test between ELB 500 TTL and ELB 400 at 1/8000s: https://aifo.se/blogg/elinchrom-elb-500-ttl-test-bts/

Seems to me you get at least an extra stop using HS on the ELB 400 compared to HSS on the ELB 500 TTL.

Exactly  :)

HSS does not "eat power" it is just the difference in the way the two types of exposure work. In HSS the light pulses which means, by definition, at times during the exposure the light is off; in contrast in 'HS' mode the light is always on but in longer over sync speed exposures (1/250-1/1000)  the duration of the flash becomes an issue in that the later part of the image doesn't get as much light as the first part.

The two systems fight against the sync issues in different ways and there is no right or wrong, just understand what you are trying to do and get a system that works better for that discipline.

For example, if you are relying on the flash exposure to freeze motion the shorter flash duration technology in HSS will give you better results, HS works by extending the flash duration so doesn't do as good a job. However if you are going for maximum 'separation' or 'over powering the sun' then HS will give you better results on a per power basis because the light is always on during the exposure.

I'm normally trying to abstain from correcting people on the internetz, but since you are one of the most reliable sources of photographic experience I've encountered, I feel I have to make an exception...

HSS works by extending flash duration and HS works by chopping it.

When you turn on HSS you lose a stop, give or take. That's "eating power" in my book. This comes from the fact that HSS needs to shine light for an extra half of your sync speed to keep an even exposure during the time the shutter is partially open anywhere. Half sync speed because the two curtains travel their distance in slightly less than half the time of your sync speed and the time window the whole sensor is exposed when slower than X sync is roughly 1ms. You can't do this continuous output at the same brightness you get for a MAX POWER blast unless using about twice the energy. The exact factor varies with travel times of the shutter curtains.

HS (or SuperSync, HyperSync, ...) work by using a t.5 time longer than your exposure time. If you have a ELB400 with a Quadra HS head in the A port, you get between 1.8 and 3.6 ms t.5 time, where the total exposure time of your camera is about 1/400s+exposure time, so between 2.6ms and 5.6ms. So, there would be some falloff towards one side or the other. Some might argue that you have to get more than one stop of falloff, but the flash output is a curve, not a line and so on.
The shorter shutter speed you use with HS, the smaller the part of the flash output curve you use. But since it is now behaving as a continuous light, you lose a stop per stop of faster shutter, unless you use the wrong part of the output curve.

The upside with HS over HSS is you get to reach peak brightness. The downside is you get falloff.

HSS and HS give exactly the same possibilities of stopping fast motion, since they both make a flash behave like a continuous light source.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: -pekr- on March 08, 2018, 03:25:20 AM

HSS does not "eat power" it is just the difference in the way the two types of exposure work. In HSS the light pulses which means, by definition, at times during the exposure the light is off; in contrast in 'HS' mode the light is always on but in longer over sync speed exposures (1/250-1/1000)  the duration of the flash becomes an issue in that the later part of the image doesn't get as much light as the first part.

The two systems fight against the sync issues in different ways and there is no right or wrong, just understand what you are trying to do and get a system that works better for that discipline.

For example, if you are relying on the flash exposure to freeze motion the shorter flash duration technology in HSS will give you better results, HS works by extending the flash duration so doesn't do as good a job. However if you are going for maximum 'separation' or 'over powering the sun' then HS will give you better results on a per power basis because the light is always on during the exposure.

I'm normally trying to abstain from correcting people on the internetz, but since you are one of the most reliable sources of photographic experience I've encountered, I feel I have to make an exception...

HSS works by extending flash duration and HS works by chopping it.

When you turn on HSS you lose a stop, give or take. That's "eating power" in my book. This comes from the fact that HSS needs to shine light for an extra half of your sync speed to keep an even exposure during the time the shutter is partially open anywhere. Half sync speed because the two curtains travel their distance in slightly less than half the time of your sync speed and the time window the whole sensor is exposed when slower than X sync is roughly 1ms. You can't do this continuous output at the same brightness you get for a MAX POWER blast unless using about twice the energy. The exact factor varies with travel times of the shutter curtains.

HS (or SuperSync, HyperSync, ...) work by using a t.5 time longer than your exposure time. If you have a ELB400 with a Quadra HS head in the A port, you get between 1.8 and 3.6 ms t.5 time, where the total exposure time of your camera is about 1/400s+exposure time, so between 2.6ms and 5.6ms. So, there would be some falloff towards one side or the other. Some might argue that you have to get more than one stop of falloff, but the flash output is a curve, not a line and so on.
The shorter shutter speed you use with HS, the smaller the part of the flash output curve you use. But since it is now behaving as a continuous light, you lose a stop per stop of faster shutter, unless you use the wrong part of the output curve.

The upside with HS over HSS is you get to reach peak brightness. The downside is you get falloff.

HSS and HS give exactly the same possibilities of stopping fast motion, since they both make a flash behave like a continuous light source.

Nice explanation. If someone is interested, here's few animations. If you filter out marketing a bit, you get the idea:

http://elinchrom.com/learn/hss-hs.html

And here is quite nice comparison of Profoto B1 with ELB 400. Not to argue, which is better/worse, but to understand a bit better, how it works:

http://blog.michaelclarkphoto.com/?p=3886
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: hne on March 08, 2018, 03:48:48 AM
...and here are the flash curves and colour rendering indices of the ELB 500 TTL:
https://www.hansvaneijsden.com/elb-500-ttl-experience-new-elinchrom-flash/
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Viggo on March 08, 2018, 03:02:44 PM
It’s as easy as demonstrated in the link on the previous page. Put a HS light and a HSS light on the same power and watch the HS shot be brighter, that means you get less light out of HSS than HS on the same power setting.

An example is with my B1 and a white BD I had to use full power and keep it really close when using HSS. My Bron lamp with the same type of BD I can use about power 5.0 instead of 10, also considering the Bron at 10.0 is 800Ws vs B1 at 500Ws.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Quackator on March 08, 2018, 06:34:37 PM
Here's a full-power test between ELB 500 TTL and ELB 400 at 1/8000s: https://aifo.se/blogg/elinchrom-elb-500-ttl-test-bts/

Seems to me you get at least an extra stop using HS on the ELB 400 compared to HSS on the ELB 500 TTL.

Yeah, seems so, if you aren't aware of the gradual fall-off from bottom
brightest (and in this image subject closest) to top darkest.

A systematic procedure mistake.

Try that on a flat grey card and the world looks totally different.

This test is useless.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Viggo on March 09, 2018, 02:22:08 AM
Here's a full-power test between ELB 500 TTL and ELB 400 at 1/8000s: https://aifo.se/blogg/elinchrom-elb-500-ttl-test-bts/

Seems to me you get at least an extra stop using HS on the ELB 400 compared to HSS on the ELB 500 TTL.

Yeah, seems so, if you aren't aware of the gradual fall-off from bottom
brightest (and in this image subject closest) to top darkest.

A systematic procedure mistake.

Try that on a flat grey card and the world looks totally different.

This test is useless.

Well, there will always a bit of gradation with HS, but tell me how often do you light and even background with HS where it could be an issue? I’ve used mine quite a bit, and normally shoot people, often in portrait mode and outside where ambient is the even light and my lamp is the key light. This will never be an issue for me, and the difference in power output is worth it.

Besides, at least my B1 also had gradation. It got much worse when Profoto decided to add HSS to the lower settings without it working like it did on the higher power setting.

So either method is compromise. And what is best for you can only you decide. For me HS is the winner.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Talys on March 09, 2018, 04:26:17 AM
Here's a full-power test between ELB 500 TTL and ELB 400 at 1/8000s: https://aifo.se/blogg/elinchrom-elb-500-ttl-test-bts/

Seems to me you get at least an extra stop using HS on the ELB 400 compared to HSS on the ELB 500 TTL.

Yeah, seems so, if you aren't aware of the gradual fall-off from bottom
brightest (and in this image subject closest) to top darkest.

A systematic procedure mistake.

Try that on a flat grey card and the world looks totally different.

This test is useless.

Well, there will always a bit of gradation with HS, but tell me how often do you light and even background with HS where it could be an issue? I’ve used mine quite a bit, and normally shoot people, often in portrait mode and outside where ambient is the even light and my lamp is the key light. This will never be an issue for me, and the difference in power output is worth it.

Besides, at least my B1 also had gradation. It got much worse when Profoto decided to add HSS to the lower settings without it working like it did on the higher power setting.

So either method is compromise. And what is best for you can only you decide. For me HS is the winner.

With most portraits, the falloff is a plus, since you want the head area brightest, and unless you're showcasing the fashion, the rest of the person gradually darkening a bit is a plus.

I think that HS is a winner on paper, but I don't think that many people care in actual practice. 

The downside is, if you get used to shooting it, and you swap in lighting with speedlights, you're back to HSS, and your expectations may be a little different.
Title: Re: Elinchrom announces the ELB 500 TTL: The world’s most powerful portable TTL flash system
Post by: Quackator on March 11, 2018, 06:04:35 AM
HSS works by extending flash duration and HS works by chopping it.

Not quite. Both try to make the flash emit light for as long as the shutter blades travel.

The light time needed is always one third stop longer than the max x-sync speed.

The shutter blades always travel at the same speed, no matter if you shoot at
30 seconds or 1/8000 seconds exposure time. The difference is the gap between
the two. At X-sync, the gap is exactly as wide as the frame.

One stop shorter, and the gap is only half as wide, so half the flash light
does not reach the sensor but instead is wasted on the shutter blades.

This counts for both HSS and Hypersync (and it's copies).

Select another stop shorter, and the shutter gap is halfed again,
and again the light is burnt on the shutter blades but does not
reach the sensor.  And so on. No matter if you use HSS or Hypersync,
both burn the majority of light onto the shutter blades. Period.

The Elinchrom marketing claim is badly misleading, to say the least.

When you turn on HSS you lose a stop, give or take.

The same counts for Hypersync. Simply activating either of the two means
that the flash starts emitting light before the shutter blades start, and still
lights a small time after the shutter has closed again.

This extra preroll and postroll time cannot be used for the exposure, for
both techniques.

On top of that every stop shorter in shutter speed halves the gap between
shutter blades compared to a longer stop and thus kills another stop.

Both HSS and Hypersync are workarounds that will die when global shutters
become available for flash sync as well.

HS (or SuperSync, HyperSync, ...)
(...)
The shorter shutter speed you use with HS, the smaller the part of the flash output curve you use.

No. You don't chop anything out. The flash fires free until the minimum discharge
voltage of the capacitor is reached and the plasma in the flash tube dies.

HSS and HS give exactly the same possibilities of stopping fast motion, since they
both make a flash behave like a continuous light source.

That is correct.