canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on February 22, 2012, 02:47:57 PM

Title: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Canon Rumors on February 22, 2012, 02:47:57 PM

5D Mark III

Below are the known specs of the upcoming 5D Mark III. To see all the 5D Mark III coverage, you can click here for the category view.


Canon EOS 5D Mark III & 24-70 f/2.8L II


Specs



New Flash

It’s either the 590EX or the 600EX, any way you look at it, it’s a new flagship flash.

So this pretty much confirms what we’ve been saying for a while now.


More Images


5D Mark III & 24-70 f/2.8L II Kit, BG-E11, 600EX - Click for larger


cr


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Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: CowGummy on February 22, 2012, 02:49:26 PM
Behold. The time has come.
I'm just chuffed to comment first on what will no doubt go on for about 20 pages now...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Mooose on February 22, 2012, 02:50:24 PM
So.... should I preorder or wait for the 5DmkIV?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: DzPhotography on February 22, 2012, 02:52:43 PM
What is meant by: "Dual CF/SD Card Slots"? Both of each  :o? or CF+SD slot? Or not sure: maybe 2 x CF or 2 x SD?  ???
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 22, 2012, 02:54:25 PM
What is meant by: "Dual CF/SD Card Slots"? Both of each  :o? or CF+SD slot? Or not sure: maybe 2 x CF or 2 x SD?  ???

One of each.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Dianoda on February 22, 2012, 02:54:29 PM
Perfect, I think I know what I'm giving myself for Christmas this year.

Pro AF woot!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: ramon123 on February 22, 2012, 02:54:47 PM
All the specs really look great, the only thing that I am a bit upset about is the price -  $3500 seems high for the body only. I was expecting it to be a 20% increase from $2400 for the 5D2 to $2899 (max $3000) for the 5D3.

Let's hope that it's not $3500 body only!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 02:56:18 PM
So an extra $1500 for improved AF...wow
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mb66energy on February 22, 2012, 02:56:41 PM
Hopefully the pricing is right.

It seems that canon delivers a great package: Moderately high resolution, great AF system and moderate fps (that is my assumption if I read 3500$ for the body).

O.k., now it's time to decide between crop and full frame ...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: CowGummy on February 22, 2012, 02:57:18 PM
All the specs really look great, the only thing that I am a bit upset about is the price -  $3500 seems high for the body only. I was expecting it to be a 20% increase from $2400 for the 5D2 to $2899 (max $3000) for the 5D3.

Let's hope that it's not $3500 body only!

Wouldn't be surprised in the slightest at a $3500 body only price. Especially after getting a taster of Canon's new pricing model with the 24-70II.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: DzPhotography on February 22, 2012, 02:58:27 PM
What is meant by: "Dual CF/SD Card Slots"? Both of each  :o? or CF+SD slot? Or not sure: maybe 2 x CF or 2 x SD?  ???

One of each.
Oh I hate that crap. I really wanted 2 x CF. I just don't see the point of using 2 formats. I can understand it for peeps upgrading from a cam who have already SD's. Guess I'm turning back to the 1D X...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 02:58:48 PM
Hopefully the pricing is right.

Moderately high resolution

Well it is just 1mp improvement from mark II
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Dianoda on February 22, 2012, 02:59:11 PM
All the specs really look great, the only thing that I am a bit upset about is the price -  $3500 seems high for the body only. I was expecting it to be a 20% increase from $2400 for the 5D2 to $2899 (max $3000) for the 5D3.

Let's hope that it's not $3500 body only!

The yen is currently about 45-50% stronger than it was when the 5D2 launched.  So $3.5K for body only is already a reduced margin for Canon compared to the 5D2 @ launch.  And I have a feeling that this this camera will be a step up compared to the 5D2, comparable to what we saw with the 7D vs. 50D.  Just need the frame rate confirmed (6.9fps?).
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 22, 2012, 02:59:35 PM
So an extra $1500 for improved AF...wow

To paraphrase the MasterCard commercial: Extra card slot, $100.  Full-coverage viewfinder, $200.  Most of your images properly in focus, priceless.

Speaking for myself, I was willing to pay thousands extra for the 1D X to get top-notch AF.  If I only have to pay $1500, it's a bargain.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: ramon123 on February 22, 2012, 03:00:04 PM
5D2 special - $1999
5D2 regular - $2399

5D3 regular - $3500

That seems like a BIG jump.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: dstppy on February 22, 2012, 03:00:17 PM
All the specs really look great, the only thing that I am a bit upset about is the price -  $3500 seems high for the body only. I was expecting it to be a 20% increase from $2400 for the 5D2 to $2899 (max $3000) for the 5D3.

Let's hope that it's not $3500 body only!

$3.5k does sound a bit harsh . . . I hope it isn't the body as well, but who knows.  All I can say is that if it IS that much I am SO jazzed I pulled the trigger on the 5dMK ii price drop.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Asposium on February 22, 2012, 03:01:44 PM
well, if the spec turns out to be true, and the AF is on-a-par with the 1D4, then I'll be getting one of those rather than a 1D X
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: ramon123 on February 22, 2012, 03:01:51 PM
So an extra $1500 for improved AF...wow

To paraphrase the MasterCard commercial: Extra card slot, $100.  Full-coverage viewfinder, $200.  Most of your images properly in focus, priceless.

Speaking for myself, I was willing to pay thousands extra for the 1D X to get top-notch AF.  If I only have to pay $1500, it's a bargain.

Nice paraphrase from master card!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Flake on February 22, 2012, 03:02:03 PM
Well $3500 seems on the high side of estimates and seeing as the D700 was always more expensive I would have hoped the price would have stayed lower.  The D800 is being sold for £2600 (Nikon roadshow) I would have expected the UK price to be closer to £2400.
Time will tell
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: pedro on February 22, 2012, 03:02:27 PM
Is the ISO range convergent with former posts: 100-25600 and 1042k as highest extension?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: docsmith on February 22, 2012, 03:03:16 PM
All the specs really look great, the only thing that I am a bit upset about is the price -  $3500 seems high for the body only. I was expecting it to be a 20% increase from $2400 for the 5D2 to $2899 (max $3000) for the 5D3.

Let's hope that it's not $3500 body only!

I would expect $3,500 for body only.  Also compare it to the 1Dx.  With more MP, same AF, etc, you are getting a lot of the features of the 1Dx for just over half the price.  ~1/3 of the price wouldn't make sense.

BTW, if the rest of the recent rumors are true, you are looking at faster fps, another stop or so of ISO performance and I am hoping for better DR as well.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 03:04:22 PM
The yen is currently about 45-50% stronger than it was when the 5D2 launched.

Google "Hedging"
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: bornshooter on February 22, 2012, 03:05:25 PM
Well $3500 seems on the high side of estimates and seeing as the D700 was always more expensive I would have hoped the price would have stayed lower.  The D800 is being sold for £2600 (Nikon roadshow) I would have expected the UK price to be closer to £2400.
Time will tell
at todays currency rate its just over 2300 in the uk i have a 5dmk2 and 60d the 60d will be sold to fund this bad boy :D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: photophreek on February 22, 2012, 03:05:32 PM
Finally!!!!  Specs are exactly what I want.  I'm not surprised at the price and probably body only price - fine with me.  More details next week will be very interesting.  I'm not counting on availability till August/September which is ok by me.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: existent on February 22, 2012, 03:05:55 PM
No mention of ISO in the specs yet... For a 22mp camera, I expect very good high ISO performance and DR... especially for that price. $3500 sounds a bit high, considering D800 is only $3000?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: t.linn on February 22, 2012, 03:06:53 PM
The price is higher than I expected too but I think you have to keep several things in mind:

1. Strength of the yen
2. Originally, the 5D Mark II was $2,699 (wasn't it?)
3. How many people have said "just give me pro-level AF and I would gladly pay more!"

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: CowGummy on February 22, 2012, 03:09:23 PM
Well $3500 seems on the high side of estimates and seeing as the D700 was always more expensive I would have hoped the price would have stayed lower.  The D800 is being sold for £2600 (Nikon roadshow) I would have expected the UK price to be closer to £2400.
Time will tell
at todays currency rate its just over 2300 in the uk i have a 5dmk2 and 60d the 60d will be sold to fund this bad boy :D

I seriously doubt that this camera will be on the market in rip-off-britain for much less than £3000, possibly even matching the $ price in Sterling...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 03:10:05 PM
And I have a feeling that this this camera will be a step up compared to the 5D2

Why would you think otherwise? This camera is 75% expensive from the current model and is competing against $3000 d800.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: CanonLITA on February 22, 2012, 03:12:31 PM
The yen is currently about 45-50% stronger than it was when the 5D2 launched.

Google "Hedging"

Not a complete solution here..
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: photophreek on February 22, 2012, 03:17:31 PM

Flake wrote:
Quote
Well $3500 seems on the high side of estimates and seeing as the D700 was always more expensive I would have hoped the price would have stayed lower.  The D800 is being sold for £2600 (Nikon roadshow) I would have expected the UK price to be closer to £2400.
Time will tell

Current exchange rate for British Pound to USD is $1.567.  As a result, $3500 USD is less than £2400 (USD equiv = $3700).  I'm not at all surprised at this price.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Britman on February 22, 2012, 03:18:00 PM
Well $3500 seems on the high side of estimates and seeing as the D700 was always more expensive I would have hoped the price would have stayed lower.  The D800 is being sold for £2600 (Nikon roadshow) I would have expected the UK price to be closer to £2400.
Time will tell
at todays currency rate its just over 2300 in the uk i have a 5dmk2 and 60d the 60d will be sold to fund this bad boy :D

Agreed, it will be a direct $ - £ conversion, you know all that extra TAX, to justify it. It will come down in price though, if the mkII stays in production for a little longer people will still buy it over the mkIII and save £1.5k

I seriously doubt that this camera will be on the market in rip-off-britain for much less than £3000, possibly even matching the $ price in Sterling...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Emeyerphoto on February 22, 2012, 03:18:17 PM
I am wondering if the current 5d Mk2 will still be continued/supported?  I am guessing that there will be plenty of used 5dMk2 but, for me the 5d Mk2 is my next camera the estimated $3500 is out of my price range.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: DzPhotography on February 22, 2012, 03:20:54 PM
5D2 special - $1999
5D2 regular - $2399

5D3 regular - $3500

That seems like a BIG jump.
What do you mean by '5D2 special'?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: CanonLITA on February 22, 2012, 03:22:58 PM
If it is actually announced by the end of February, when do you think it will be available in the shelf? I mean, really available, not only few copies for the lucky ones.. Thanks
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Daniel Flather on February 22, 2012, 03:23:54 PM
5D2 special - $1999
5D2 regular - $2399

5D3 regular - $3500

That seems like a BIG jump.
What do you mean by '5D2 special'?


It was on sale, a.k.a. special price.  The 5d2 was $1999 CAD at a time when that converted to less than $1999 USD. 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: gleb86 on February 22, 2012, 03:24:08 PM
5D2 special - $1999
5D2 regular - $2399

5D3 regular - $3500

That seems like a BIG jump.
What do you mean by '5D2 special'?

When it's on sale.

The price of the 5d2 probably won't come down much so I'll be selling mine off as well as a t2i.
A little sticker shocked but I'll have plenty of time to put money aside.
since they pushed the 1dx back, does that mean that the 5d3 won't be available until after this summer?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 03:26:10 PM
The yen is currently about 45-50% stronger than it was when the 5D2 launched.

Google "Hedging"

Not a complete solution here..

What do you mean?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Ricku on February 22, 2012, 03:27:14 PM
If it is actually announced by the end of February, when do you think it will be available in the shelf? I mean, really available, not only few copies for the lucky ones.. Thanks
End of summer.  :(

Just look at the 1D X.

Announced in october last year, still not avalible.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Shnookums on February 22, 2012, 03:28:51 PM
</strong>Below are the specs for the coming 5D replacement, the full name of the camera is currently unknown.</p>
<p><strong>Specs<br />

</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>22mp</li>
<li>61pt AF</li>
<li>100% VF</li>
<li>3.2″ LCD</li>
<li>Dual CF/SD Card Slots</li>
<li>Price: Around $3500 USD</li>
<li>Announcement on February 27 or 28, 2012 (Depending where you are on earth)</li>
</ul>

So, same AF as the 1Dx, including the f/8 limitation? Also, it would be nice of Canon to release cameras and not only announce them...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: bdeutsch on February 22, 2012, 03:30:04 PM
And I have a feeling that this this camera will be a step up compared to the 5D2

Why would you think otherwise? This camera is 75% expensive from the current model and is competing against $3000 d800.
I'm no expert on prices in the past, but it seems like every time a new model has been launched, the price until now has been very close the model it's replacing.  Therefore it's a little strange to have such a big markup this time around. 


Actor Headshots NYC (http://www.headshotsnyc.com) | Gotham Family Photos  (http://www.gothamfamilyphotos.com) | NY Wedding Photos (http://www.nyweddingphotos.com)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Smith on February 22, 2012, 03:30:19 PM
$3500 is completely consistent with my expectations given Canon's new push for profit margins. A basic kit of the 5DIII with the new 24-70 II will set you back $3500+$2400=$5900. The 5DII with old 24-70 is $2000+$1270=$3270 or a difference of $2630. You would get sharper images with better AF but at a very substantial cost. If you're only using the 5DII's center AF point and don't have great technique sticking with the older gear would give you enough savings to purchase a lot more camera gear.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 03:30:27 PM
The price is higher than I expected too but I think you have to keep several things in mind:

1. Strength of the yen

Well, d700 was launched at $2999. so yen didn't strengthen for Nikon?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Chewy734 on February 22, 2012, 03:32:07 PM
So, same AF as the 1Dx, including the f/8 limitation? Also, it would be nice of Canon to release cameras and not only announce them...

Actually, Canon has not even announced anything yet.  So, it's anyone's guess when they will ship it.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jbwise01 on February 22, 2012, 03:33:30 PM
$3500... for AF improvement and a new battery grip  :'(
$1999... for one of the best DSLR's ever  ;D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkln on February 22, 2012, 03:33:54 PM
The price is higher than I expected too but I think you have to keep several things in mind:

1. Strength of the yen

Well, d700 was launched at $2999. so yen didn't strengthen for Nikon?

my thoughts exactly.


If my options are
1. sell canon gear and switch to nikon
2. sell 5d2 get 5d3

I guess the $ 300/500 price difference D800/5d3 makes option 2 worse than option 1.

there must be some hidden spec or something that justifies that price.
otherwise, fail.
looks like 5d2 v d700 reversed. (recall, 5d2 outsold d700)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: crunchy on February 22, 2012, 03:34:06 PM
This is great news, so much used canon gear is sure to flood the market!

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: TheLordOfIt on February 22, 2012, 03:36:49 PM
Wow.. really suprised how many people are okay with the pricing o__O

They can't keep this price imho... It is way way way too much.. In Germany usually Dollar = Euro..  :(

e.g. the new 24-70 has a RRP with 2299 EUR - Same as in America in USD..

Street Price should be ~20% lower... which means a 5DMIII is at 2800 to 3000 EUR... At the moment you can already preorder a Nikon D800 for about 2650,- EUR... A 5DMII atm is at 1700,- EUR

Canon is really freaking out if they want a 3500$ RRP Price O___O
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: revo2seven on February 22, 2012, 03:38:48 PM
dang I haven't got my 7D yet here comes the big boy camera lol which the price will go down further canon more rebates  ;D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: frisk on February 22, 2012, 03:38:52 PM
Sounds great.   I'm a bit surprised regarding the dual card slots, but the rest is pretty much what I was hoping for.  I just hope the high ISO performance will be as good as I hope,  but there is no question - I'll be preordering as soon as I am allowed to.

So....when will the 5Dmk4 rumors start showing up  ;)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: K-amps on February 22, 2012, 03:39:09 PM
CR guy thanks for the CR3, +1 to you....  Very disappointed with the price here myself...  :-[

+1 to Canartist for his comment on the Yen not affected Nikon only affected Canon? Since when did Canon start becoming elitist and charging premiums... I guess  since it started copying Nikon. So is Nikon the next Canon?

I really hope the price is closer to USD $2700-$2800....
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkln on February 22, 2012, 03:40:21 PM
Wow.. really suprised how many people are okay with the pricing o__O

They can't keep this price imho... It is way way way too much.. In Germany usually Dollar = Euro..  :(

e.g. the new 24-70 has a RRP with 2299 EUR - Same as in America in USD..

Street Price should be ~20% lower... which means a 5DMIII is at 2800 to 3000 EUR... At the moment you can already preorder a Nikon D800 for about 2650,- EUR... A 5DMII atm is at 1700,- EUR

Canon is really freaking out if they want a 3500$ RRP Price O___O

The $3500 makes sense in terms of features compared to the rest of canon's lineup.

But it makes absolutely no sense compared to D800.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mws on February 22, 2012, 03:41:46 PM
I want to know about ISO performance and DR.

A little disapointed at the price, I was really hopping to spend a max of 3,000. I'll have to wait and see what the reviews say (and think of a way to explain the price to the misses).

Time to start praying for the Yen to rally against the dollar..............
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 22, 2012, 03:43:49 PM
Hmmm... not thrilled with the CF+SD card slots... would prefer 2 of either... I guess maybe if you could have raw files sent to 1 and jpegs sent to the SD?  Still grasping at straws on how that could be helpful.  Price seems steep but I suppose it's the price of technology...  As neuro said, getting all the photos in focus would be priceless, but I hope they sneak in a few extras that the 7d has to make it worth our while...  now i need to explain the increase in price to my wife... great...  :P
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: willhuff.net on February 22, 2012, 03:44:34 PM
I was really excited for this camera until I saw the price.
Dual memory cards is something I need and I would have paid $2900 for those new specs, but for $3500 it's going to need to have weather sealing and a few more stops of DR for me to reconsider.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Canon 14-24 on February 22, 2012, 03:45:07 PM
We are talking launch price, so of course it's going to be a bit hefty. The original 5d2 released in USA was priced at $2699. When the 7d came out at $1699+ people were whining it was overpriced even though it had an improved AF system for a crop body.

Given the possible improvements that were mentioned like 100% VF, iso stop improvement by 1-2?, improved fps?, dual card slots, improvement in weather seals? a price range between $2999-3699 for the body is fair and I believe justified when given the addition of a better AF system.

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: DBCdp on February 22, 2012, 03:45:58 PM
A little disappointed in the price level, but not surprised with the price of the new 24-70.
FWIW:
New 20D Oct. 2005......$1829
New 5D   Jan. 2007......$2789
New 5D2 Apr. 2009......$2699
New 7D  Mar. 2011......$1499

Notice the 5D Classic at $2789, back in 07! Not too surprised at all for the New 5.
But this might just decide for me to go with another 5D2 and hand the 7D down to my daughter. Undecided.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mws on February 22, 2012, 03:47:13 PM
The only thing I can see the dual CF/SD cards useful for is, I can shoot raw to the CF and then jpegs to SD, and use a eye-fi card. I get the raws for my use, and directly upload the jpegs to the web for my family to pick through.

Curious about FPS/buffer when using both cards. I assume it will go down.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: CowGummy on February 22, 2012, 03:47:24 PM
We are talking launch price, so of course it's going to be a bit hefty. The original 5d2 released in USA was priced at $2699. When the 7d came out at $1699+ people were whining it was overpriced even though it had an improved AF system for a crop body.

Given the possible improvements that were mentioned like 100% VF, iso stop improvement by 1-2?, improved fps?, dual card slots, improvement in weather seals? a price range between $2999-3499 for the body is fair and I believe justified when given the addition of a better AF system.

Agreed. And how many of us have said all along that we would be happy to part with extra cash if Canon even only sort out the AF?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Stu_bert on February 22, 2012, 03:47:32 PM
I'm always amused by the fact that as buyers, we often think we're being ripped off by the vendors. And yet probably everyone on this forum works for a company (even their own), which sells something, be it a product or a service. How many of us complain to our company that we might be slightly over-egging our position / price point?

Every year, we expect our companies to pay us a bonus and a pay hike, no doubt Canon employees expect the same. Is Canon any different in terms of it's pricing? It basically prices it's products at whatever it thinks it can get away with. I'm sure the companies we all work for, do similarly....

A combination of market forces and economic recovery may help to reduce the price in time. Early adopters always pay a premium. I just upgraded my PC to Sandy Bridge, having skipped the previous gen, and expecting to skip the next gen in H2. Sure I could have waited for Ivy bridge to knock down pricing further, but it hit my price point, and I bought.

If you want to upgrade when it is first released, you'll have to pay the premium. Those looking at the 1Dx may however be looking at a bargain.... :D interesting times.

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 22, 2012, 03:50:49 PM
We are talking launch price, so of course it's going to be a bit hefty. The original 5d2 released in USA was priced at $2699. When the 7d came out at $1699+ people were whining it was overpriced even though it had an improved AF system for a crop body.

Given the possible improvements that were mentioned like 100% VF, iso stop improvement by 1-2?, improved fps?, dual card slots, improvement in weather seals? a price range between $2999-3499 for the body is fair and I believe justified when given the addition of a better AF system.

Launch price doesn't change that much until there's enough products in the used market to compensate... The 7D held its $1699 for a good year and a half... It was just last 12 months or so the 5D2 dropped from it's $2600 launch price...  Lenses prices have increased over the last few years... If your waiting on price drops, you'll be waiting a while
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: ramon123 on February 22, 2012, 03:51:16 PM
5D2 special - $1999
5D2 regular - $2399

5D3 regular - $3500

That seems like a BIG jump.
What do you mean by '5D2 special'?


It was on sale, a.k.a. special price.  The 5d2 was $1999 CAD at a time when that converted to less than $1999 USD.

Special meaning in the last few months, the 5D2 was on special (xmas) and was going for $1999 at B&H, Adorama etc.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: TheLordOfIt on February 22, 2012, 03:53:04 PM
The $3500 makes sense in terms of features compared to the rest of canon's lineup.

But it makes absolutely no sense compared to D800.

Normally you should expect to get after 3 years of development something better for the same price... With the logic, that the price is okay with extra features EVERYTHING will getting more and more expensive..

My 3 year old televion... 1400,- EUR ... With this logic a new television with tons of more features (LAN, 200hz, 3D) should cost much more... But no! ist less expensive... Same with my car... Paied 15k for it a few years ago.. Now you get a improved model for the same price...

I really cant go with this argument, that after 3 years of development a bit better iso, dual cf/sd and finally a good AF justify the bigger price
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Canon 14-24 on February 22, 2012, 03:54:38 PM
Though if I was Canon I would brand a 5d like body with superior autofocus a different name other than 5D like they did with the 7d to prevent confusion and better justify the price increase. I would keep the 5d/3 line a high megapixel like the Nikon D800 but with a lackluster autofocus and improved dynamic range for studio/landscape work required for large prints.

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Picsfor on February 22, 2012, 03:56:24 PM
OK, here's my two penneth worth (2 cents in American terms  :)  )

Dual Cards - would have preferred both the same, but i'll take 2 card slots. At 22mp i will continue to work with 8gb cards like i do with my 5D2's. So, 8gb SDHC is hardly the end of the world as a back up format. Also, having the SD size card means i don't have to carry a card reader to use with my iPad - just the camera connector kit.

22mp - i'm fine with this, as i was prepared to drop to 18mp for a 1DX.

61 pt AF - if this is any where near what is being offered with the 1DX i'm getting 2 of them to replace my 5D2's just for that feature alone. If you've handled a 1DX, you'll know what i mean.

6fps - not bothered one way or another - never really use the 3.5fps on the 5D2 so, no benefit.

ISO - not really announced - but i'm expecting it to go to a usable 12800 - 2 stops below the 1DX.

Video - will doubtless be an improvement on current 5D2.

Weather proofing - i suspect will be improved as this really does look like a 7D replacement as well as a 5D2 replacement.

I hope this comes with the nice battery grip.

Price - $3500 = £2400 - £2600 according to ER fluctuations.  I'm in for 2 of them, really.

It's just about all my prayers answered - what price for the camera of your 'specific wish list"?

I might even off load my 17-40 and 24-105 and get one of them with the new 24-70 if it gonna be a kit lens for this body.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Daniel Flather on February 22, 2012, 03:59:38 PM
The $3500 makes sense in terms of features compared to the rest of canon's lineup.

But it makes absolutely no sense compared to D800.

Normally you should expect to get after 3 years of development something better for the same price... With the logic, that the price is okay with extra features EVERYTHING will getting more and more expensive..

My 3 year old televion... 1400,- EUR ... With this logic a new television with tons of more features (LAN, 200hz, 3D) should cost much more... But no! ist less expensive... Same with my car... Paied 15k for it a few years ago.. Now you get a improved model for the same price...

I really cant go with this argument, that after 3 years of development a bit better iso, dual cf/sd and finally a good AF justify the bigger price

Yes, but the price is a RUMOR.


Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: nightbreath on February 22, 2012, 04:00:12 PM
Wow, 5 pages in 13 minutes   ::)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mws on February 22, 2012, 04:00:35 PM
In terms of the price, 3,500 for Canon, and 3,000 for Nikon, how may first time camera buyers are going to consider either of these two models? Probably very few.

The average person buying this is already going to be a Canon user, and have glass, speed lights etc. While an extra 500 is money no one wants to spend, most people realistically will not sell everything and switch to Nikon.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: fotoray on February 22, 2012, 04:02:01 PM
Like many of you I was disappointed in the price, believing $3k would be body-only max price.   No mention of FPS in the latest (CR3) specs.   Hope that it's 6.9 fps as mentioned earlier.   

I find the CF+SD card choice a bit odd.  IMO, 2 CF slots makes more sense for camera in 5D family.  It makes even more sense to include the new XQD card format - which has size similar to SD, but thickness of CF.   This would be paving the way to use the latest card technology.

I am also hoping for a double-exposure capability similar to that described for the 1D X.   Maybe an increase in bracketing up to +/-5 or +/-7 exposures.   

Also, what is predicted performance at high ISO - what is the DR?   
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: V8Beast on February 22, 2012, 04:03:47 PM
If these specs pan out, this puts me in a real pickle. I have a D800 on preorder, which I can easily cancel, and the 5DIII offers an intriguing balance of resolution and speed. It's not so much the $3,500 price that irks me, but rather the premium Canon is asking over a D800, money that will come in handy in offsetting the money I stand to lose by switching systems.

For me, I think the determining factor will be when the 5DIII will actually start shipping. I have several potentially lucrative gigs coming up in the next 2-3 months where the features of both the 5DIII and D800 will come in handy. If there's going to be a 1Dx-like delay to get a 5DIII, that might be what pushes me over the edge. I suppose we'll know a release date soon enough!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: kubelik on February 22, 2012, 04:05:32 PM
$3500 sounds about right and is what I've been expecting for the last year and a half, especially since it finally got the pro-level AF it deserved.

I will definitely be buying this camera if it matches these specifications, and I don't think $3500 is overpriced.

the question is, who is a 40mm f/2.8 pancake lens targeted at?  how about a replacement 35mm f/2?  that's a lens I would buy (although not at the $800 price range that canon seems to think slow primes should go for)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Grigbar on February 22, 2012, 04:05:52 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-RC-6-Wireless-Controller-Digital/dp/B0037NX6JY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329944329&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Canon-RC-6-Wireless-Controller-Digital/dp/B0037NX6JY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329944329&sr=8-1)



http://www.amazon.com/NEEWER%C2%AE-Wireless-Control-shutter-release/dp/B004WB8EYM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1329944329&sr=8-3 (http://www.amazon.com/NEEWER%C2%AE-Wireless-Control-shutter-release/dp/B004WB8EYM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1329944329&sr=8-3)

I dont exactly have good faith in the Canon pricing policy. Basically, their all a rip off either way. We dont really have a choice tho so we pay any way. Just because it supposedly has the 61pt AF doesnt mean its going to be as good as the 1DX and the dual card slots is stupid.

Really, you have to be kind of dumb to read to much into these specs. Im only as good as my last photo, and if this camera doesnt take unbelievable pix the specs can be damned. Ill wait till its been in the field for a while and the honest reviews are in before i make my decision.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Jim K on February 22, 2012, 04:06:03 PM
Let's hope that it's not $3500 body only!

Well, the 5D2 + 24-105 kit is $3199 at B&H today. So I don't think that $3500 could be for the 5D3 + 24-105 kit, just $300 for the new body? No.

Perhaps for the new 5D3 + 50mm f/1.8 kit? Perhaps.

I'm wondering about the 5D2 returning to CLP. It was $1599 for the refurbs there a while back and then Canon pulled it  :(
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Justin on February 22, 2012, 04:06:13 PM
At that price the 5D2 should be competitive for awhile. Wow, we wait for 3 and half years to get the camera many would argue we should have gotten with the 5D2. No thanks.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 22, 2012, 04:06:44 PM
Wow, 5 pages in 13 minutes   ::)

I was thinking the same thing haha
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: V8Beast on February 22, 2012, 04:07:42 PM
So an extra $1500 for improved AF...wow

That's the million dollar question. If I owned a 5DII, which I don't, I probably wouldn't be inclined to order up a 5DIII unless there was a significant improvement in ISO and DR.

 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 22, 2012, 04:07:58 PM
For me, I think the determining factor will be when the 5DIII will actually start shipping. I have several potentially lucrative gigs coming up in the next 2-3 months where the features of both the 5DIII and D800 will come in handy. If there's going to be a 1Dx-like delay to get a 5DIII, that might be what pushes me over the edge. I suppose we'll know a release date soon enough!

When will the D800 start shipping?  On time, just like the D4?  Oh, wait...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mws on February 22, 2012, 04:10:26 PM
$3,500, maybe time to turn this hobby into a busines............
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: SomeGuyInNewJersey on February 22, 2012, 04:10:49 PM
Like some others here I am disappointed with the price.

I know its till just a rumor but I was expecting $3k. I would not have hesitated to purchase. But another $500 makes me wonder.

Perhaps the price is wrong... the d800 was rumored to be about $300-$500 more than the price they announced it at, so perhaps this case is similar.

I'm upgrading from a 550d, so I dont already have full frame. So my choice is BETWEEN the 5d2 and the 5d3, not a choice between getting the 5d3 or doing nothing. I'll discount the D800e option altogether because of the cost of replacing all my glass. I am even more excited about upgrading to FF for a silly sounding reason as well, I recently started using an old 35mm film slr and LOVE the increased size oft he viewfinder over a crop body.

5d2 is currently $2.3k body only so for the price of a body only 5d3 I could get the 5d2 with the 100mm f/2.8L Macro lens or the 8-15mm f/4 fisheye instead.

I dont need that much of an advanced AF system, better than the 5d2 would have been nice. I dont need the fps.

Its roughly the same mp as the 5d2. So no extra blowing up opportunities from the 5d2.

Obviously we have no word on iq compared to 5d2 yet... and thats a very important unknown because when it comes to it I couldnt care less about the specs in the end... the quality of the final image is everything.

Better performance at higher iso would be nice... but if it isnt much better with noise etc at low-medium iso than the 5d2 then I'm not sure if the extra $1200 over a 5d2 is worth it for me.

Perhaps the build quality is more rugged and the weather sealing improved too?

I REALLY didnt want to bitch when the camera so many of us have been waiting for is almost upon us but that extra $500 over what I thought they could price it at has left me more than a little disappointed. Its not a value thing, its just a raw thats $3500 thing... I am not complaining about the specs offered for that price and accusing them of ripping customers off as I suspect some of the other commenters might. I'm not asking for more specs and asking for more less money... I was kinda just expecting to buy $3k worth of Canon FF and not $3500 worth of Canon FF...

The other piece of my puzzle is when can I get my hands on it... I'm planning Grand Canyon, Antelope and Monument Valley for August... one way or another I will be going with a full frame camera and not my 550d.

Ah, decisions, decisions...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: V8Beast on February 22, 2012, 04:11:40 PM
Question for the CR Guy: Is the FPS still rumored at 6.9?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: V8Beast on February 22, 2012, 04:12:58 PM
When will the D800 start shipping?  On time, just like the D4?  Oh, wait...

Supposedly in late March. I'll send you a PM when I get mine if you're that concerned.

BTW, have you gotten your 1Dx yet? Oh, wait....
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: kubelik on February 22, 2012, 04:14:15 PM
the thing I'm happiest about is I bet there's going to be plenty of demand for used 5D Mark II's on ebay ... which should help me fund my 5D Mark III purchase ...  :D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: vadim_b on February 22, 2012, 04:14:55 PM
Price absolutely does make no sense for me too  :(

3500$ = a way too much. In my country it will be not less than 4000$ when sales start. For this price we can get two(!) 5dmk2's OR one camera and a decent lens like 35/1.4 or 50/1.2 plus some other stuff.

I've been saving last couple of months to make a move to FF camera finally, so if the price rumor becomes true, i'll run for Mark II as fast as i can  :)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 22, 2012, 04:15:09 PM
Not to fuel the fire, but there has been reports recently that the 5D2 having prices increases over the last few days....  perhaps if this camera gets announced/released at $3500, any takers the retail 5d2 price jumps back up to the original $2699 it debuted at? 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: vegavnil on February 22, 2012, 04:17:26 PM
What about video capabilities? Hope they stepped up the specs from 5D2!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: BillyBean on February 22, 2012, 04:21:21 PM
Anyone heard of 'anchor pricing' - the idea is to establish the idea of a price in someone's head (whether they can afford it or not). Then discount it. People think the vendor is doing them a huge favour. If I were Canon, I would be seeding these rumours into the market in just the way we have seen today, and everyone is "ooh, can I afford it, ouch", etc. Then announce it next week at say $3000 or $3200, and everyone thinks - "wow what a bargain!". Maybe they are right, and it is a bargain. But for me, just like with eBay purchases, the only thing that matters is 'is it worth it' not how much it has been discounted or what the exchange rate is...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: vuilang on February 22, 2012, 04:21:58 PM
let see... 5d3 $3500 VS $1800 5d2

It's really is depend on much more detail about the 5d3, otherwise i'll buy 5d2. Save at least $1500 is no small.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: kubelik on February 22, 2012, 04:22:09 PM
Not to fuel the fire, but there has been reports recently that the 5D2 having prices increases over the last few days....  perhaps if this camera gets announced/released at $3500, any takers the retail 5d2 price jumps back up to the original $2699 it debuted at?

I have no doubt that will be the case.  demand for the 5D Mark II will surge and there will be little reason for people selling 5D Mark II's to undersell themselves.  unused 5D Mark I's were selling for $2200 when I bought my 5D Mark II, and that was a year and a half into its lifespan already.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: BillyBean on February 22, 2012, 04:24:06 PM
Incidentally, Canon have at least two competitors for the 5DIII/X - Nikon and 'do nothing'. You can bet this will drive their thinking on price, at least after the initial rush.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 22, 2012, 04:25:36 PM
Not to fuel the fire, but there has been reports recently that the 5D2 having prices increases over the last few days....  perhaps if this camera gets announced/released at $3500, any takers the retail 5d2 price jumps back up to the original $2699 it debuted at?

I have no doubt that will be the case.  demand for the 5D Mark II will surge and there will be little reason for people selling 5D Mark II's to undersell themselves.  unused 5D Mark I's were selling for $2200 when I bought my 5D Mark II, and that was a year and a half into its lifespan already.

Woo Hoo!  Since I bought mine a few months ago at its all time low, and I can sell high... capitalists around the world rejoice. 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: ramon123 on February 22, 2012, 04:25:54 PM
Anyone heard of 'anchor pricing' - the idea is to establish the idea of a price in someone's head (whether they can afford it or not). Then discount it. People think the vendor is doing them a huge favour. If I were Canon, I would be seeding these rumours into the market in just the way we have seen today, and everyone is "ooh, can I afford it, ouch", etc. Then announce it next week at say $3000 or $3200, and everyone thinks - "wow what a bargain!". Maybe they are right, and it is a bargain. But for me, just like with eBay purchases, the only thing that matters is 'is it worth it' not how much it has been discounted or what the exchange rate is...

That sounds really smart and would for sure catch me!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: D_Rochat on February 22, 2012, 04:28:34 PM
We have yet to get confirmation on ISO and FPS, but I wonder what this will do to used 1d mk IV sales. People trying to get rid of their 1D IV's for the 1DX may take a bit of a hit with this new 5D coming out. It's sounding like this may be an all around better option at a cheaper price than a used 1D IV.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: JerryFish on February 22, 2012, 04:32:31 PM
From the start, I must say that some heavy assumptions are being made in this analysis, and I do understand these shortcoming of my analysis, this must state that this is for speculation and fun ONLY.

Taking the price of the historical "big brother" of the 5D line, the 1Ds (due to FF) and determining the price index between them over three generations of cameras, one can estimate an index based price of the 5D. Due to the fact that  the 1DX has an MSRP of $6800, and staying true to its historical index, the next gen 5D would be priced at $2714. This is assuming that no other factors are involved in pricing (features, tech, inflation, exchange rate, etc.).

If we strictly take into consideration the current price of the YEN vs. USD over time (as some on this forum are prognosticating), we can expect the price of the 5D3 to properly reflect the historical prices of the 5D (with respect to the 1Ds prices) at $4064 adjusting for ERs. This would be the MSRP IF Canon wanted to continue the exact margins/index as the last generation of 5D/1Ds.

HOWEVER, I repeatedly hear justifications for price increases of the 5DmkIII base on solely exchange rates. I believe that this is a misnomer and not the driving MSRP factor for canon due to the fact that the MSRP of the 1DX was set at $6800! The price of that camera went DOWN compared to its last generation even with a YEN increasing in value by 50%. I do understand that the 1DX is not a true offspring of the 1DsmkIII, but with the combination of the two lines and addition of new features to boot, I believe my point to still be valid.

Discuss...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tron on February 22, 2012, 04:36:03 PM
Very nice features. I will be strongly tempted. I have a 5DmkII which I suspect feels lonely...  ;D However, I could get the TS-E 17mm L and EF8-15mm L instead with almost the same amount of money and be  done with the wide end ... almost ::)

But then, I do not shoot action, I prefer landscapes...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: rambarra on February 22, 2012, 04:39:19 PM
Not to fuel the fire, but there has been reports recently that the 5D2 having prices increases over the last few days....  perhaps if this camera gets announced/released at $3500, any takers the retail 5d2 price jumps back up to the original $2699 it debuted at?

It's just market dynamics. 5D2 hit lowest price point in december, when they needed to clear inventories and granted rebates to sellers. Now Canon will progressively start to phase the camera out of the distribution channels. Since demand is and will be there for a while the prices will increase accordingly. So the idea that soon we will be able to get d2 at discounted price is basically wrong.

Regading the used 5D2 market there is, already since a while, a line of buyers waiting for prices to come down as well. These buyers will be joined soon by those who haven't found a new 5D2 at the price they wanted. Like what happened with 5D classic price will not deacrease substantially in the short period.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Ricku on February 22, 2012, 04:43:30 PM
It's just market dynamics. 5D2 hit lowest price point in december, when they needed to clear inventories and granted rebates to sellers. Now Canon will progressively start to phase the camera out of the distribution channels. Since demand is and will be there for a while the prices will increase accordingly. So the idea that soon we will be able to get d2 at discounted price is basically wrong.
And there are MANY people having this idea. I feel sorry for them.

Evil Canon.  :(
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Eagle Eye on February 22, 2012, 04:50:23 PM
Sorry folks, but $3500 only makes sense with a kit lens.  The D800 is coming in at $3000 with significantly higher megapixels and marketed as a pro camera vs. a prosumer.  Obviously there are no details, but it's hard to imagine the 5D Mark III having features that outgun the D800 to the tune of $500.  I'd imagine Canon is rethinking their price point on the 5D Mark III as we debate.  I would expect it come in at $3200 upon release.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Chuck Alaimo on February 22, 2012, 04:52:36 PM
I find myself really wishing I had had the cash reserves to pull the trigger on a mk ii over the holiday season, I mean crap, $2000 on an mkii, and now the new price is back up around $2500, and the used market seems to have dried up.  If i had pulled the trigger then, I might have made money on resale of it!  (or at least been able to resell it for little to no loss!

I am wondering though, if i were to pull the trigger on an mkii, what would the used market look like come this fall when the mkiii is actually avaialble? 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 22, 2012, 04:57:52 PM
All the specs really look great, the only thing that I am a bit upset about is the price -  $3500 seems high for the body only. I was expecting it to be a 20% increase from $2400 for the 5D2 to $2899 (max $3000) for the 5D3.

Let's hope that it's not $3500 body only!

For the $3500 I sure hope we are safe to assume it will be the full on 1DX AF and not some simplified version or some crappy performing AF sensor and logic that happens to have 61pts but is no good compared to the 1DX AF sensor and logic.

For the $3500 I hope we are safe to assume it will be the 6.9fps and not the 6fps mentioned at Northlight and damn well better not be 5fps or less.

22MP, 6.9fps, full 1DX AF would be pretty cool. It lacks the reach and detail of the D800 but gripless 6.9fps would be nice and hopefully the 1DX AF is awesome.

It also sets up one heck of a 5D4 in 2015 (39MP, 6.9fps, top 1 series AF?).

If they crippled the 1DX more than a trace or just used some poor performing 61pt sensor then not so hot though for $3500 considering all that the D800 has. If it is only 4 or 5fps that would be really weak too, even 6fps flat might start seeming a bit weak all the D800 has for $3000 so hopefully it's the 6.9fps.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: DeckardTrinity on February 22, 2012, 04:58:48 PM
I'm going to make a couple of predictions that will probably shock you. 1) 5D3 will be available day one with no pre-order.   2) 5D2 used market will not pick up.

$3500 is a lot of coin for us poor Americans to cough up on a camera that, really, in essence, adds a few more autofocus sensors, and sort-of doubles the shooting speed. Therefore, I don't think we will see the droves lining up for what amounts to nothing more than incremental improvements. And this after a 3.5 LONG YEARS wait.

I honestly don't understand the complaints about the 5D2 autofocus - is there not continuous manual focus on nearly every lens sold by Canon to augment the AF when it isn't spot-on? I also shoot a lot of medium format, where autofocus pretty much doesn't exist, so this whole idea that AF is the most important feature in a camera is a little foreign to me.

The 5D2 was an absolute revolution in its day, kicking RED and Nikon square in the face with 1080P video at insane bitrates (40Mb+). Then, Canon came out with the firmware update that vastly improved the video shooting aspects of the camera. For no charge!!  THAT is commitment to your customer base.

Now we have, in essence, the same camera, with a couple little "perks" added, and a nice hefty $1500 price increase. And, to go along with it, a moderately improved all-around lens that costs twice what its predecessor cost.

If you ask me, you could get a REALLY nice medium format kit (film of course) for what it will cost to "upgrade" to a 5D3 + 24-70L II. Personally, this is the end of the "upgrade" road for me, as I am more than happy with my 5D2, 24-70L (plus other lenses). Good luck finding those used 5D2s out there!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 22, 2012, 05:04:19 PM
6fps - not bothered one way or another - never really use the 3.5fps on the 5D2 so, no benefit.

Are we sure it is 6.0fps and not the 6.9fps of many rumors or even the 7.5fps of Aquatech or the 6.3fps of the 40D/50D?

(5D2 is 3.9fps)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Ricku on February 22, 2012, 05:07:45 PM
I'm going to make a couple of predictions that will probably shock you. 1) 5D3 will be available day one with no pre-order.   2) 5D2 used market will not pick up.
Why do you think the 5D2 will be avalible that fast?.. Just look at the 1D X. Announced in october 2011, still not avalible anywhere. It doesn't even have a release date...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: bigblue1ca on February 22, 2012, 05:09:05 PM
Good to hear, not surprised about the $3500, just look at the increase in the 24-70 II. 

Granted, I'm weighing buying this against the 1D X, so 50% off still looks good to me if the specs, release date, and the RAW images at high ISOs all work for me.

I can't wait to hear about the 61 pt AF and if it actually is the 1D X AF system, also curious about the ISO range.

Lastly, with a 22MP sensor, will this camera have a better DR than the 1D X?

The dual CF/SD card slot is stupid, pick one or the other Canon, oh well, that wouldn't stop  me from buying it but still who in their design department thinks of these things.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 22, 2012, 05:12:22 PM
Well what I hope happens with these canon price increases is the Australian price gets regulared correctly against the US price becasue at the moment the premium we pay for gear is silly. So if the camera comes in a $3500 aussie too then thats good.

I'm hoping build quality is closer to 1D but as for the rest of those specs
all I can say is
WOOOOOOO HOOOOOO!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Flake on February 22, 2012, 05:14:44 PM

Flake wrote:
Quote
Well $3500 seems on the high side of estimates and seeing as the D700 was always more expensive I would have hoped the price would have stayed lower.  The D800 is being sold for £2600 (Nikon roadshow) I would have expected the UK price to be closer to £2400.
Time will tell

Current exchange rate for British Pound to USD is $1.567.  As a result, $3500 USD is less than £2400 (USD equiv = $3700).  I'm not at all surprised at this price.

But then you have to add in the whopping VAT (sales tax) at 20% and it becomes nearly £2900 not far from the price of a 1D MkIV.  Seeing as the 5D MkII has been for sale at £1459 the launch price would be double what the previous model has been selling for, I think there would be a few raised eyebrows if it's accurate.  The D800 is £2600, was the previous model on sale at £1763 nowhere near a doubling and notably more than the 5D MkII. 

With the 24 - 105mm IS L lens the 5D MkII sells for £2258 so a launch price of a kit at £2900 would be much more palatable.  In terms of exchange rates, both Nikon & Canon have increased their prices (and how) so any references to that is a red herring.

Interestingly, from a political point of view there is no mention of an XQD card slot, which the Nikon D4 has but the D800 doesn't.  Sony & Nikon have colaborated on this, the CF format is 18 years old, and it seems odd that there is only one camera able to take the card.  Is this going to be a dead duck?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Canon-F1 on February 22, 2012, 05:15:29 PM
stop complaining about the price... for god sake.
if you don´t have the money buy a rebel.

the camera will have a lot more improvements then what is listed here.
and im sure it´s worth the money.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 22, 2012, 05:15:39 PM
I'm going to make a couple of predictions that will probably shock you. 1) 5D3 will be available day one with no pre-order.   2) 5D2 used market will not pick up.

$3500 is a lot of coin for us poor Americans to cough up on a camera that, really, in essence, adds a few more autofocus sensors, and sort-of doubles the shooting speed. Therefore, I don't think we will see the droves lining up for what amounts to nothing more than incremental improvements. And this after a 3.5 LONG YEARS wait.

I honestly don't understand the complaints about the 5D2 autofocus - is there not continuous manual focus on nearly every lens sold by Canon to augment the AF when it isn't spot-on? I also shoot a lot of medium format, where autofocus pretty much doesn't exist, so this whole idea that AF is the most important feature in a camera is a little foreign to me.

The 5D2 was an absolute revolution in its day, kicking RED and Nikon square in the face with 1080P video at insane bitrates (40Mb+). Then, Canon came out with the firmware update that vastly improved the video shooting aspects of the camera. For no charge!!  THAT is commitment to your customer base.

Now we have, in essence, the same camera, with a couple little "perks" added, and a nice hefty $1500 price increase. And, to go along with it, a moderately improved all-around lens that costs twice what its predecessor cost.

If you ask me, you could get a REALLY nice medium format kit (film of course) for what it will cost to "upgrade" to a 5D3 + 24-70L II. Personally, this is the end of the "upgrade" road for me, as I am more than happy with my 5D2, 24-70L (plus other lenses). Good luck finding those used 5D2s out there!

Vastly better video, hopefully 6.9fps and full 1DX AF would be a lot more than little perks! Although it depends, if you take nothing but tripod, liveview landscape shots and never shoot video than yeah maybe not so much (other than hopefully better low ISO DR). But if you use you camera in all sorts of ways those would be some pretty nice improvements to say the least.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkln on February 22, 2012, 05:18:05 PM
I wonder how the marketing is going to spin the new 5D without the megapixels.

there must be something out there. I refuse to think that the rumors reflect all of the interesting stuff the new 5 is going to have.


purely photographic features like fps or autofocus are not good for marketing
- HD video was. now it's not good anymore, everybody has it
- resolution was. now it's not good for canon anymore, nikon has it.
- price/features ratio was. canon's first consumer digital dslr's had it, $3500? no thanks
- AF and FPS never have been. the 5d3 with 1dx AF? nikon always had pro fps in lesser bodies
- high ISO performance? yeah right, we only saw <1600ISO 1DX JPEGs at 18mp, what makes you think the 5d3 will be any better? I actually don't think even the 1DX will be that special.
- high DR performance? few people actually know what DR is, few realize what it means, and canon never had good DR. 2+ stop improvement is just not happening.

so what else? 4K video? never shot any video on my 5d2. maybe it would be useful for marketing. but it's not as big as first DSLR with HD video. video is already there. 4K is incremental. we know it's going to happen.
weather sealing? I'm happy with what the 5d2 offers (which is still something). not good for marketing.

there's also a whole list of features that are missing from 5d2 and I'm not sure whether or not canon will add to the 5d3. like programmable auto iso and auto iso in M mode.
and then everything from MagicLantern (if MagicLantern can do it, why can't Canon? Can't-on?

so I'm sure there will be improvements over 5d2. but they need some MARKETING thingy that everybody will talk about because "OMG LOOK at the new 5d3 it has #insertfeaturehere# let's not talk about the D800 anymore".
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: sailingsilkeborg on February 22, 2012, 05:27:07 PM
Those of you who are fretting that there will be no deals and no reasonable used market prices on 5D II's are getting too uptight, too fast. In a perfect economic world, where all sellers are well informed and rational, one 5D II "good deal" in a blue moon might be an accurate prediction. But while the market for higher end DSLR's may include a disproportionate number of educated owner/sellers, still, it isn't a perfectly informed, rational economic world. Even otherwise rational sellers get motivated at times and for reasons that defy explanation. In addition, and more basically, not everybody is the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree. As PT Barnum (or somebody) once said, there's another sucker born every minute. That goes for sellers, as well as buyers. Breath deep, seek peace, and you will find that bargain 5D II. 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: keithfullermusic on February 22, 2012, 05:31:53 PM
stop complaining about the price... for god sake.
if you don´t have the money buy a rebel.

the camera will have a lot more improvements then what is listed here.
and im sure it´s worth the money.

I don't understand your complaint.  People have invested a lot into their systems, and they truly believed that they were going to be able to have a somewhat affordable FF camera, and 3.5k is way out of reach for most people.

Sure we can be a used 5D2, but most people don't want a pre owned camera (lenses are a different story).

I don't think it's fair to say that people need to stop complaining about the price.  It is an enormous increase from the previous model.  Whether or not it's a smart financial move for Canon is a different story, but I say people have the right to feel a little upset.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Stu_bert on February 22, 2012, 05:35:14 PM
Not to fuel the fire, but there has been reports recently that the 5D2 having prices increases over the last few days....  perhaps if this camera gets announced/released at $3500, any takers the retail 5d2 price jumps back up to the original $2699 it debuted at?
companies will price at whatever they think they can get away with ;) I guess it depends on how much distributor stock there is on the MK II, but it would not surprise me.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 05:35:49 PM

 4K video? never shot any video on my 5d2. maybe it would be useful for marketing. but it's not as big as first DSLR with HD video. video is already there. 4K is incremental. we know it's going to happen.

I guess you didn't watch the video where the canon rep admitted HDMI output was deliberately crippled in 1DX. So if canon does not want to offer even a clean HDMI in their flagship, do you think they would offer 4k in 5D ?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 05:37:35 PM
Not to fuel the fire, but there has been reports recently that the 5D2 having prices increases over the last few days....  perhaps if this camera gets announced/released at $3500, any takers the retail 5d2 price jumps back up to the original $2699 it debuted at?
companies will price at whatever they think they can get away with ;) I guess it depends on how much distributor stock there is on the MK II, but it would not surprise me.

Maybe canon wants us to believe that mk3 is not "really" expensive, compared to current offering.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jcns on February 22, 2012, 05:37:41 PM
stop complaining about the price... for god sake.
if you don´t have the money buy a rebel.

the camera will have a lot more improvements then what is listed here.
and im sure it´s worth the money.

I don't understand your complaint.  People have invested a lot into their systems, and they truly believed that they were going to be able to have a somewhat affordable FF camera, and 3.5k is way out of reach for most people.

Sure we can be a used 5D2, but most people don't want a pre owned camera (lenses are a different story).

I don't think it's fair to say that people need to stop complaining about the price.  It is an enormous increase from the previous model.  Whether or not it's a smart financial move for Canon is a different story, but I say people have the right to feel a little upset.
The 5d is a pro camera.  I am sure those who make a living from photography will not be too happy but will buy it.
Amateurs and hobbyists should not be complaining about the cost of a discretionary item.
It's a PRO body. And I am sure Canon will sell everyone they make; if you have any doubts, check out the waiting lists for it.
PRO equipment is never cheap.
Compare the price of a "regular" Porsche GT3 and a track ready GT3 RSR. 
Enzo vs Ferrari FXX.
a regular road bicycle with what the Pro Peloton rides.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: gmrza on February 22, 2012, 05:37:48 PM
Well what I hope happens with these canon price increases is the Australian price gets regulared correctly against the US price becasue at the moment the premium we pay for gear is silly. So if the camera comes in a $3500 aussie too then thats good.

I'm hoping build quality is closer to 1D but as for the rest of those specs
all I can say is
WOOOOOOO HOOOOOO!

One ray of hope is that the MSRP if the G1X is AUD 850, compared to USD 800 (in the USA).  That is a smaller premium than normal, however the G1X is a different market segment.  The apparent Australian pricing that I have heard for the 1DX is not as promising.

Even if the 5D III/X comes out at around AUD 4000 (which is roughly what the 5DII cost at launch) and if it has the 61 point AF system and two card slots, it will be well worth looking at.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 05:42:30 PM
It's a PRO body.

Can you give us a definition of so called "Pro body" ?

Please and thank you.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: swordsman468 on February 22, 2012, 05:42:47 PM
If these specs are true, then for $500 less you can opt for the Nikon D800.  Am I the only one that is unimpressed so far by the rumors for the 5D MkII replacement?  I mean the Mark II has been around for over 3 years, and its replacement seems to be a very modest, unimpressive boost in specs/features.  Something tells me Nikon is going to be stealing a lot of Canon sales this year.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkln on February 22, 2012, 05:45:39 PM
stop complaining about the price... for god sake.
if you don´t have the money buy a rebel.

the camera will have a lot more improvements then what is listed here.
and im sure it´s worth the money.

I don't understand your complaint.  People have invested a lot into their systems, and they truly believed that they were going to be able to have a somewhat affordable FF camera, and 3.5k is way out of reach for most people.

Sure we can be a used 5D2, but most people don't want a pre owned camera (lenses are a different story).

I don't think it's fair to say that people need to stop complaining about the price.  It is an enormous increase from the previous model.  Whether or not it's a smart financial move for Canon is a different story, but I say people have the right to feel a little upset.

exactly. people have expectations about what they are going to buy, and canon should (actually I think it does) realize that (potential) consumers who expected a <3000 price for the new 5d will be upset.
I don't think that price is final.

also to note is that canon gear has high resale value. compared to a world in which canon had low resale value, "our world" makes it cheaper to switch system.
therefore canon cannot price the new 5d3 too high with the D800 at $3000, because if they do, consumers might think that the expense for an upgrade to 5d3 is the same as going for nikon selling everything.

I'll take myself as an example. I currently own 5d2+85L+70200 II.
say that I want to buy a 5d3.
so I sell the 5d2, buy the 5d3, it's going to be what, $2000? seems like a lot.


 4K video? never shot any video on my 5d2. maybe it would be useful for marketing. but it's not as big as first DSLR with HD video. video is already there. 4K is incremental. we know it's going to happen.

I guess you didn't watch the video where the canon rep admitted HDMI output was deliberately crippled in 1DX. So if canon does not want to offer even a clean HDMI in their flagship, do you think they would offer 4k in 5D ?

Of course I don't think they are going to put 4K on it. but that's my point.
WHAT is the 5d3 selling for?
WHAT's going to be on all news sites? the nikon d800 had resolution. (example: "OMGZ INTERWEBS NIKON DEIGHTHUNDRED HAS THIRTY-SEVEN 37 MEGAPIXXORS")
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: pakosouthpark on February 22, 2012, 05:47:58 PM
stop complaining about the price... for god sake.
if you don´t have the money buy a rebel.

the camera will have a lot more improvements then what is listed here.
and im sure it´s worth the money.

the thing is that he might want a camera that is equivalent to his skills and NOT A REBEL and not having money is an issue. he's got all the right to complaint bout the price.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: kede on February 22, 2012, 05:49:26 PM
I pre-ordered a D800 but I think the Canon 5D3's gonna be a very nice camera. Nikon and Canon can do great things. Buy the one you're the most interest. And stop arguing... They are company who want to make money, that's all. That's the society.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: MRW on February 22, 2012, 05:53:52 PM
kinda bummed. i make my living with a 5d 2 on a tripod with a cable release using manual ziess lenses. not sure how this will help me. Im sure something will come for me sooner or later.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Picsfor on February 22, 2012, 05:56:35 PM
I wonder how the marketing is going to spin the new 5D without the megapixels.

there must be something out there. I refuse to think that the rumors reflect all of the interesting stuff the new 5 is going to have.


purely photographic features like fps or autofocus are not good for marketing
- HD video was. now it's not good anymore, everybody has it
- resolution was. now it's not good for canon anymore, nikon has it.
- price/features ratio was. canon's first consumer digital dslr's had it, $3500? no thanks
- AF and FPS never have been. the 5d3 with 1dx AF? nikon always had pro fps in lesser bodies
- high ISO performance? yeah right, we only saw <1600ISO 1DX JPEGs at 18mp, what makes you think the 5d3 will be any better? I actually don't think even the 1DX will be that special.
- high DR performance? few people actually know what DR is, few realize what it means, and canon never had good DR. 2+ stop improvement is just not happening.

so what else? 4K video? never shot any video on my 5d2. maybe it would be useful for marketing. but it's not as big as first DSLR with HD video. video is already there. 4K is incremental. we know it's going to happen.
weather sealing? I'm happy with what the 5d2 offers (which is still something). not good for marketing.

there's also a whole list of features that are missing from 5d2 and I'm not sure whether or not canon will add to the 5d3. like programmable auto iso and auto iso in M mode.
and then everything from MagicLantern (if MagicLantern can do it, why can't Canon? Can't-on?

so I'm sure there will be improvements over 5d2. but they need some MARKETING thingy that everybody will talk about because "OMG LOOK at the new 5d3 it has #insertfeaturehere# let's not talk about the D800 anymore".

Marketing options:

The 22mp has been mentioned before as being an ideal figure for video purposes. Do you know how can training establishments buy 5D2's for training with, because it's so much cheaper than a full pro rig, and can provide almost the same results when used properly at a 5th of the price.

It still has dual card slot, which means it can still do double the video length that a 5D2 can

So, there's your first marketing gem. The D800 video is what?

AF system - if it is the exact version from the 1DX - um, i think that's a great marketing point for those who want 1DX for sports, wildlife etc but can't afford it. Oh hang, the 7D brigade won't be able to afford it? Yeah right - they'll make the stretch for the other features.

Nikon's AF system is what? Assuming the f8 feature will be sorted, the Nikon's will be trailing Canon in AF for the first time in a fair while - and you won't need a battery grip to get the extra FPS.

Talking of that Battery Grip - you know, the one that makes it look and feel just like a 1Dx with duplicated controls for portrait as well landscape mode?

How is Nikon's comparing to that? Oh it's not - it just bolts on the bottom and gives an extra few fps without and moulding for comfort? Damn, i thought you almost had me there!

22mp FF - yeah i know, that's a bitch isn't it? Not as good as 36mp, i'll give you that. But hang on - at what cost? Maybe Canon have a more rounded offer in the wing?

Do we know what ISO and DR this will be working with?

Do we know what price it will be coming out at?

So, we've killed off the D700 and D3, almost the D3s and the D4 - and this isn't even Canon's flagship camera.
Bugger, i thought this was a crumby replacement.

Such a shame it can't top 36mp. Oh hang on - that's all it can't do :o

Glad you don't work for Canon marketing, but i'm sure their whizz kids in Marketing have got even better spins on it than me...

Yeah, i'm now cleaning up all the kit that i don't need, including a pair of 5D2's to upgrade. Yeah, it's a real shitty upgrade isn't it! Be on to the local camera shop next week to pre-order mine!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Arkarch on February 22, 2012, 05:57:05 PM
On Price ...
I was just over at WPPI in Vegas and now back at my office down the street.   
I have not heard sirens and sounds of panic from wedding and portrait photographers...  yet...

Ok my thoughts.   I do expect a 10% break - maybe the "anchor pricing" approach.  Or maybe Canon knows the demand...  but when you get up to $3500 you are only $2499 away from a 1DX.   Hmmm..

With three minutes left before WPPI close, I guess I cant make it back to hear the screams :)

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: TexPhoto on February 22, 2012, 06:01:08 PM
If those are indeed the specs, I will hang onto my 5DII and put the money towards Pizza and Beer, I mean lenses.

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Chuck Alaimo on February 22, 2012, 06:11:10 PM
If these specs are true, then for $500 less you can opt for the Nikon D800.  Am I the only one that is unimpressed so far by the rumors for the 5D MkII replacement?  I mean the Mark II has been around for over 3 years, and its replacement seems to be a very modest, unimpressive boost in specs/features.  Something tells me Nikon is going to be stealing a lot of Canon sales this year.


This is what I don't get....

Thinking of all the forum topics about the mkiii rumored specs and expectations - If i were a canon marketing rep reading all this and reporting back to canon with the header title of - "this is what people want," then this spec list is right on target!

behold (taken from http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3249.0.html (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3249.0.html)-
High MP (30-36mp) body with price to match $3k                                         35 (15.1%)
Hi DR;  mid MP (21-24mp) body with improved AF priced $2.5-3k     95 (40.9%)
Hi DR lower MP (18-21mp) body with great ISO priced $2300 -$2500          40 (17.2%)
Mini/crippled  1Dx @ $3000                                                                           23 (9.9%)
Awin's Shove it in Nikon's face 40MP+ monster priced at $3k                       39 (16.8%

Now the specs we see today are potentially better what was asked for.  Most of the responses said such things as,  just give me a better AF and I'll be fine.  If many of the other things are addressed (better DR, ISO, Weather sealing) then even more of a bonus. And there may be a few more bells and whistles in this beast that we don't know about.  Like another poster here said, how do they market this beast?  What will they be able to say that makes people draw their eyes from the d800?  Well, the above could very well turn into one add, you asked and we responded!  There are a lot of wedding photogs out there, and the 5d series is a mainstay in that trade - so i'd guess there are a few marketing campaigns ready to go...

With all that said, the cost is ugggggggg...but, remember this ---

While the d800 is $3000 - there is also the d800e at $3299....  $3300 is very close to $3500. 

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: sublime LightWorks on February 22, 2012, 06:14:56 PM
What is meant by: "Dual CF/SD Card Slots"? Both of each  :o? or CF+SD slot? Or not sure: maybe 2 x CF or 2 x SD?  ???

One of each.
Oh I hate that crap. I really wanted 2 x CF. I just don't see the point of using 2 formats. I can understand it for peeps upgrading from a cam who have already SD's. Guess I'm turning back to the 1D X...

Of course, you could use an Eye-Fi in the SD and get wifi for less than any anticipated wifi adapter.  Not a speedy solution, but it probably will work.

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Neeneko on February 22, 2012, 06:16:42 PM
kinda bummed. i make my living with a 5d 2 on a tripod with a cable release using manual ziess lenses. not sure how this will help me. Im sure something will come for me sooner or later.

Ooooh.. that actually sounds fun.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: skoobey on February 22, 2012, 06:17:19 PM
Um, that's all well and fine, but... i stumbled upon this set of images that are all 6000x9000, and metadata says Canon 5d, not 5dII like other images from the same photographer.... so it makes me wonder...  ;) is there a 5dx on it's way?
http://blogs.vogue.es/clara-alonso/2011/10/hippie-chic/]
[url]http://blogs.vogue.es/clara-alonso/2011/10/hippie-chic/ (http://[url)[/url]
Title: Trickle down my way…..
Post by: barryjphoto on February 22, 2012, 06:20:32 PM
Here's to hoping there will be some 7D's being sold in the near future. Not as many 5Dll's I know but you can always hope.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tooslick2k on February 22, 2012, 06:23:24 PM
stop complaining about the price... for god sake.
if you don´t have the money buy a rebel.

the camera will have a lot more improvements then what is listed here.
and im sure it´s worth the money.

+1    We have all said it time and time again, "I'll spend whatever If the AF is improved" Its looking like they did that. So why back out now? This is a much better camera than the epic 5DmkII if you cant afford it, wait or buy a 7d, If you can afford it money shouldn't be an issue considering the current spec list.

Also note that the D800 was rumored at $3900, and is msrp offically at $3000.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: gmrza on February 22, 2012, 06:24:38 PM

22mp FF - yeah i know, that's a bitch isn't it? Not as good as 36mp, i'll give you that. But hang on - at what cost? Maybe Canon have a more rounded offer in the wing?

How many people actually will be able to use 36MP?  If you make huge prints, that will be great, but a 5DII already acquits itself quite well for 20"x30" prints.  For instance, if your required output is for 11"x14" prints, you can happily use SRAW1 on a 5DII.
I don't believe there are lots of people who need 36MP.  Keep in mind there is a difference between "need" and "want" or "would like".  :)
I have to admit I am beginning to wonder if you don't actually need a larger sensor (i.e. MF) to really get the benefit of so many pixels.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: SomeGuyInNewJersey on February 22, 2012, 06:26:26 PM
stop complaining about the price... for god sake.
if you don´t have the money buy a rebel.

Isnt it hard to try and take the high road with complaining people by just whining and complaining about them and then trying to demean them?

the camera will have a lot more improvements then what is listed here.
and im sure it´s worth the money.

Well everyone who has misigivings about the rumored price must feel so humbled by such insight from your astute analysis. Your sureness of the rumored cameras worth and certainty of your as yet unknown but ever so valuable improvements must have really put people in their place.

My hypocritical bait taking on a hypocritical post is now over... I shall now lower myself by pressing post  :)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Ricku on February 22, 2012, 06:26:40 PM

22mp FF - yeah i know, that's a bitch isn't it? Not as good as 36mp, i'll give you that. But hang on - at what cost? Maybe Canon have a more rounded offer in the wing?

How many people actually will be able to use 36MP?  If you make huge prints, that will be great, but a 5DII already acquits itself quite well for 20"x30" prints.  For instance, if your required output is for 11"x14" prints, you can happily use SRAW1 on a 5DII.
I don't believe there are lots of people who need 36MP.  Keep in mind there is a difference between "need" and "want" or "would like".  :)
I have to admit I am beginning to wonder if you don't actually need a larger sensor (i.e. MF) to really get the benefit of so many pixels.

Having high MP count is all about the ability to crop your photos. with around 40mp, you can crop like crazy.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Jimmy_D on February 22, 2012, 06:27:29 PM
well, since high resolution is out of the picture (bye-bye 36mp  :-[) my hopes reside in the possibility of 1dx type weather sealing
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tooslick2k on February 22, 2012, 06:28:12 PM
stop complaining about the price... for god sake.
if you don´t have the money buy a rebel.

the camera will have a lot more improvements then what is listed here.
and im sure it´s worth the money.

I don't understand your complaint.  People have invested a lot into their systems, and they truly believed that they were going to be able to have a somewhat affordable FF camera, and 3.5k is way out of reach for most people.

Sure we can be a used 5D2, but most people don't want a pre owned camera (lenses are a different story).

I don't think it's fair to say that people need to stop complaining about the price.  It is an enormous increase from the previous model.  Whether or not it's a smart financial move for Canon is a different story, but I say people have the right to feel a little upset.

With that logic, I want a 10,000 sqft house, but i dont want to spend the millions it costs on it.  I dont want a preowned home....

If i can only afford a 3000sqft home then thats what I buy. Everyone wants more for nothing. This price is great considering the improvements. If you cant afford it, there are other cameras to buy.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: bestsides on February 22, 2012, 06:30:38 PM
Has anyone heard anything about weight of the camera body? may not be an issue for most guys but I've waited on this camera so I could upgrade to full frame - hoping it comes in under the weight of the current 7D (Approx. 28.9 oz./820g body only).
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: skoobey on February 22, 2012, 06:32:10 PM
HOW ABOUT A 4K VIDEO to justify the price, given how popular the 5dII was among filmmakers.

I think it's happening.  8)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: kenraw on February 22, 2012, 06:32:25 PM
I can't believe that the specs have finally been released and now everyone is complaining about the price. Well for me as a wedding photographer the specs seem perfect and as I make money from photography the price is irrelevant whatever it is. If you want this camera for a hobby or to have the latest tech but don't like the price it's tough. Canon don't make pro camera's as a favour. The price hasn't even been announced by Canon anyway. My advice is if you don't make a living from your camera buy a 5dmk2 and some glass instead the IQ will be about the same, but better AF and dual cards are essential for paid work regardless of the price.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: RobS on February 22, 2012, 06:35:45 PM
i am a 100% studio photographer so i hoped for more MP because i don't care FPS and high ISO. For my agencies  i need 18MP but i like to crop sometimes and still have 18MP with only 22MP and this price range this is no replacement for me at all. And if CR is right i will change to Nikon.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Ricku on February 22, 2012, 06:39:16 PM
Frame rates, noise, etc., are nice, but it's all worthless if over half your shots have missed focus.

The smartest thing Nikon did with the D800(E) was to use the D4's autofocus system, and I certainly hope that Canon follows suit by using the 1D X's autofocus system (not an impaired version of it) in the 5D2 replacement. If they do, I will be pre-ordering it the first second that it becomes available.
I couldn't have said it better myself.

This is what I have been thinking hundreds of times when 5D2 AF ruined my photos.

It is so annoying when you know that you have done everything right to get the perfect shot, but the camera AF failed you.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: sublime LightWorks on February 22, 2012, 06:41:36 PM
All the specs really look great, the only thing that I am a bit upset about is the price -  $3500 seems high for the body only. I was expecting it to be a 20% increase from $2400 for the 5D2 to $2899 (max $3000) for the 5D3.

Let's hope that it's not $3500 body only!

For the $3500 I sure hope we are safe to assume it will be the full on 1DX AF and not some simplified version or some crappy performing AF sensor and logic that happens to have 61pts but is no good compared to the 1DX AF sensor and logic.

For the $3500 I hope we are safe to assume it will be the 6.9fps and not the 6fps mentioned at Northlight and damn well better not be 5fps or less.

22MP, 6.9fps, full 1DX AF would be pretty cool. It lacks the reach and detail of the D800 but gripless 6.9fps would be nice and hopefully the 1DX AF is awesome.

It also sets up one heck of a 5D4 in 2015 (39MP, 6.9fps, top 1 series AF?).

If they crippled the 1DX more than a trace or just used some poor performing 61pt sensor then not so hot though for $3500 considering all that the D800 has. If it is only 4 or 5fps that would be really weak too, even 6fps flat might start seeming a bit weak all the D800 has for $3000 so hopefully it's the 6.9fps.
We're going to find out soon enough.

When the rumored price was $3k, I was skeptical of the 1Dx AF being in the camera, as I felt the price and feature set would not justify what was needed to run that.

Now....at $3500, all I can say is it better have the 1Dx AF and metering, along with some decent weather sealing and the same kind of optional modules as the 1Dx.  If it lacks some significant capabilities, it's going to be a dud.

That said, it's given me more justification to go 1Dx by the end of the year as my workhorse, sell my 5Dmk2 and grip, keep my 7D as my second DSLR body, and use the PhaseOne a lot more in studio.  With the 5Dmk2 used market firming up, I could get $1900 for the body, grip, and extra battery and use that to help offset the difference of the 1Dx.

Now....if Canon would just release an SDK for iOS so we can stop having to use a freaking PC in the mix when controlling via an iPad.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tooslick2k on February 22, 2012, 06:42:43 PM
Frame rates, noise, etc., are nice, but it's all worthless if over half your shots have missed focus.

The smartest thing Nikon did with the D800(E) was to use the D4's autofocus system, and I certainly hope that Canon follows suit by using the 1D X's autofocus system (not an impaired version of it) in the 5D2 replacement. If they do, I will be pre-ordering it the first second that it becomes available.
I couldn't have said it better myself.

This is what I have been thinking hundreds of times when 5D2 AF ruined my photos.

It is so annoying when you know that you have done everything right to get the perfect shot, but the camera AF failed you.

Agree 100 times over and over again!!!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: PowerShotG2 on February 22, 2012, 06:44:58 PM
I think Canon mostly deals with pros and agencies for feedback not consumers. Their pricing on this 5D MkIII and G1X reflect a bias towards professional photography. I have no problem with that, but at the consumer level, I do ask that they:

1) improve the APS-C sensors because they can't compete against 1.5x Sony sensors used by Nikon.
2) improve Live View focus time.
3) offer a better thought out consumer grade EF-S lens system including primes for crop bodies.
4) improve service for consumers - currently it is a sloppy experience at best.

Canon needs to do better to distinguish the market for EF and EF-S lenses and the same for EOS bodies.
Currently, they mix it all up without marketing the advantages of FF or crop properly. If I'm shopping for a Toyota, don't show me a Lexus. It makes the customer feel like they are getting an inferior product.

Another factor is the amount of information and innovation in digital cameras. Canon does not have the proper leadership to adjust to these changes. I won't blame people for focusing on the price because a $3500 5DMkIII means the 7D MkII and 70D will be higher also. The pro and consumer lines are the same brand.

I hope that the professional photographers that have access to Canon can explain this to them.

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: simonfilm on February 22, 2012, 06:50:33 PM
$3500 would be ok if: 

. less rolling shuter
. Zero Moire (No pixel binning, but interpolation)
. Full HD HDMI out
. Best encoding with more mbps/s
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: milo on February 22, 2012, 06:55:13 PM
This is not a bad camera, but it doesn't look like a 5D replacement.  This is more a Full Frame version of the 7D.

Unlike the 5D Mk II, which was a step up in every respect, this camera will appeal to only a subset of users.  I am sure that are users who welcome the new AF points and FPS, but for me it's pretty much worthless.  The only big improvement I needed from Canon in this area is with low-light AF.

I will take huge gains in image quality over megapixels, like the advantage that Foveon originally had.  But, the 1Dx sample photos really did not impress me overall, and I question whether IQ in the 5D Mk III will be the equivalent of a downsized D800 other than maybe at some ridiculously high ISO.  The next best thing to huge IQ improvement is more megapixels, especially in terms of cropping, and the D800 looks like a masterpiece of a camera from every angle.

The dual card slots is great, but the CF/SD approach seems a little half-assed. 

Canon will be in major trouble if they don't have a new FF DSLR coming out, perhaps at Photokina, as there is no way this camera can hold the fort for another 3 years.

Right now, the D800 is a game changer in the same way that the original 5D and 5D Mk II was.   The 5D Mk III may be a godsend for some people, and I am happy for them, but overall it is a lackluster introduction. 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wockawocka on February 22, 2012, 06:55:35 PM
If those specs are correct I can easily see myself cancelling one of my 2 1DX orders.
Maybe both.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Neeneko on February 22, 2012, 07:00:13 PM
With that logic, I want a 10,000 sqft house, but i dont want to spend the millions it costs on it.  I dont want a preowned home....

If i can only afford a 3000sqft home then thats what I buy. Everyone wants more for nothing. This price is great considering the improvements. If you cant afford it, there are other cameras to buy.

I think in general people are willing to pay more for significant improvements.. but this represents a significant price increase for not much gain, then discontinuing of the old model.  This raises the threshold of getting a FF camera from Canon, which will also effect what the used market will look like since fewer people are going to drop the extra cash for a camera that seems overpriced compared to the value of its predecessor.

Granted, some people are really excited about the new AF and see that as worth it.. others.. not so much.  It kinda seems like the only significant improvement listed which means if AF is not on your list of needs, it isn't very much.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Lee Jay on February 22, 2012, 07:02:49 PM
Change it to 1.6 crop, f/8 AF sensors, and everything else the same for $1,700 and I might be in.  For this, I'll keep my 5D (not II).
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 22, 2012, 07:04:11 PM
Now....if Canon would just release an SDK for iOS so we can stop having to use a freaking PC in the mix when controlling via an iPad.

+1
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Chuck Alaimo on February 22, 2012, 07:05:21 PM
With that logic, I want a 10,000 sqft house, but i dont want to spend the millions it costs on it.  I dont want a preowned home....

If i can only afford a 3000sqft home then thats what I buy. Everyone wants more for nothing. This price is great considering the improvements. If you cant afford it, there are other cameras to buy.

I think in general people are willing to pay more for significant improvements.. but this represents a significant price increase for not much gain, then discontinuing of the old model.  This raises the threshold of getting a FF camera from Canon, which will also effect what the used market will look like since fewer people are going to drop the extra cash for a camera that seems overpriced compared to the value of its predecessor.

Granted, some people are really excited about the new AF and see that as worth it.. others.. not so much.  It kinda seems like the only significant improvement listed which means if AF is not on your list of needs, it isn't very much.

just keep in mind -


Also note that the D800 was rumored at $3900, and is msrp offically at $3000.

$3500 rumor price could be anything real price...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Chuck Alaimo on February 22, 2012, 07:07:08 PM
Change it to 1.6 crop, f/8 AF sensors, and everything else the same for $1,700 and I might be in.  For this, I'll keep my 5D (not II).

That sounds more like a 7DII than a 5dmkiii
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Axilrod on February 22, 2012, 07:08:59 PM
HOW ABOUT A 4K VIDEO to justify the price, given how popular the 5dII was among filmmakers.

I think it's happening.  8)

Wont happen, it would eat up the sales of the 4K Cinema DSLR and that's definitely going to be a more expensive camera.  I'm sure it will have improved video, hopefully reduced moire and less banding, no rolling shutter.  All of that seems possible considering video on the 5DII was an afterthought.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Gcon on February 22, 2012, 07:10:15 PM
I am interested in battery compatibly as I got burned from 5D to 5DII battery incompatibility as I have 8 batteries (two gripped 5D2's uses 4, and then 4 spare).

Along those lines I have have no inclination to use SD cards. They are small and annoying because they are much easier to lose that CF cards. I hate them. I have 4 32GB CF cards and would rather have all 4 stuffed into two bodies, just like the 1Dx. Go away SD!

The price is understandable.  With the D800, Nikon have forced their hand to release the 5Dx. They would have liked to have sold a metric tonne of 1Dx before announcing the 5Dx but it's too late - the 5Dx has to come out. As they don't want too many potential 1Dx buyers to defect to 5Dx, they are upping the price of the 5Dx to dissuade them, and if they do go to 5Dx, they'll at least get a fair profit from these people. It's priced higher than the D800 but not *too* high to cause Canon users to switch, and they'll trumpet better features.  New users might go the Nikon though if it's too much of a price premium.

Once the 1Dx has been out for say 6 months, then Canon will drop the price of the 5Dx to really start to compete with the D800, rather than be high to dissuade 1Dx users and gouge the early adopters (like me).

I might still see value in this 5Dx  *if* it has great weather sealing, high frame rates, and other pro features.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Neeneko on February 22, 2012, 07:12:40 PM
$3500 rumor price could be anything real price...

Quite true, and I would not be surprised if it was lower.  Just going over why people are reacting the way they are, at least in part.

Though personally, I am mostly hoping that whatever it is, it pushes down the used market prices for some of the current gen bodies.  I would love to see the 1Ds3 down in my price range for instance.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 22, 2012, 07:13:38 PM
With that logic, I want a 10,000 sqft house, but i dont want to spend the millions it costs on it.  I dont want a preowned home....

If i can only afford a 3000sqft home then thats what I buy. Everyone wants more for nothing. This price is great considering the improvements. If you cant afford it, there are other cameras to buy.

I think in general people are willing to pay more for significant improvements.. but this represents a significant price increase for not much gain, then discontinuing of the old model.  This raises the threshold of getting a FF camera from Canon, which will also effect what the used market will look like since fewer people are going to drop the extra cash for a camera that seems overpriced compared to the value of its predecessor.

Granted, some people are really excited about the new AF and see that as worth it.. others.. not so much.  It kinda seems like the only significant improvement listed which means if AF is not on your list of needs, it isn't very much.

In addition to hopefully full 1DX what if it has:

vastly better video with no moire/aliasing/full RGB per pixel/much better SNR

7fps vs 4fps (although if you don;t care about the better AF you prob don't care about this either, granted)

those aren't minor things by any means

and we could hope it also has:
2.5 stops better usable DR at ISO100 (although I have doubts, but to match Nikon it would basically need this)
2/3 stop better SNR

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: psolberg on February 22, 2012, 07:14:08 PM
Quote
So, there's your first marketing gem. The D800 video is what?

has video too. uncompressed HDMI too. I hope the 5DIII has that as well as a headphone monitor both of which are glaring omissions on the 1DX. fps wise, unless canon can push 1080p60, it will be unlikely to have anything over the D800 then.

Quote
Nikon's AF system is what? Assuming the f8 feature will be sorted, the Nikon's will be trailing Canon in AF for the first time in a fair while - and you won't need a battery grip to get the extra FPS.

doubtful. same AF as the 1DX = no f/8. I wouldn't say nikon trails at all. A10 points difference isn't going to matter. plus we know how capable the AF in the nikons is and has proven itself time to time. canon still needs to prove itself so how can you tell?. At best they will be equal if canon puts it out of park. The nikon also focus down to -2EV which is an improvement over their prior gen and will really help it in low light. So lets give canon credit, but let's not deceive ourselves. They are not really surpassing nikon in any meaningful way.

Quote
How is Nikon's comparing to that? Oh it's not - it just bolts on the bottom and gives an extra few fps without and moulding for comfort? Damn, i thought you almost had me there!

I don't know if that's a killer feature the OP is talking about.  "The battery grip feels gripper" doesn't sound like a bullet point in marketing. But ok. I'll take your word for it. I've never held a D800 with a grip.

Quote
22mp FF - yeah i know, that's a bitch isn't it? Not as good as 36mp, i'll give you that. But hang on - at what cost? Maybe Canon have a more rounded offer in the wing?

Sepeculation about tomorrow doesn't sell cameras today. Nikon will have something else, Sony will have something else, Canon will have something else. who cares if you're buying today?

Let me tell you the real differentiator for canon since all you said is well, trivial. High ISO will be better on the canon because of the low MP count and FPS will be better. However one has to wonder the wisdom of that because it looks the 5DIII competes better with the 1DX than the D800 which from the start decided not to be an action/sports body. Canon however can exploit that gap in nikon's lineup....assuming nikon doesn't fill it in with a full frame D400/D800s. THAT'S the "killer" feature for canon. In other words, nikon swapped places with canon in this segment. Canon now has the speed demon. Nikon has the studio/landscape body. Both should gain market although I think the fact canon isn't the only video capable body this time (remember D700 had no video at all) will certainly level the field.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Axilrod on February 22, 2012, 07:16:43 PM

This is what I don't get....

Thinking of all the forum topics about the mkiii rumored specs and expectations - If i were a canon marketing rep reading all this and reporting back to canon with the header title of - "this is what people want," then this spec list is right on target!

behold (taken from http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3249.0.html (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3249.0.html)-
High MP (30-36mp) body with price to match $3k                                         35 (15.1%)
Hi DR;  mid MP (21-24mp) body with improved AF priced $2.5-3k     95 (40.9%)
Hi DR lower MP (18-21mp) body with great ISO priced $2300 -$2500          40 (17.2%)
Mini/crippled  1Dx @ $3000                                                                           23 (9.9%)
Awin's Shove it in Nikon's face 40MP+ monster priced at $3k                       39 (16.8%

Now the specs we see today are potentially better what was asked for.  Most of the responses said such things as,  just give me a better AF and I'll be fine.  If many of the other things are addressed (better DR, ISO, Weather sealing) then even more of a bonus. And there may be a few more bells and whistles in this beast that we don't know about.  Like another poster here said, how do they market this beast?  What will they be able to say that makes people draw their eyes from the d800?  Well, the above could very well turn into one add, you asked and we responded!  There are a lot of wedding photogs out there, and the 5d series is a mainstay in that trade - so i'd guess there are a few marketing campaigns ready to go...

With all that said, the cost is ugggggggg...but, remember this ---

While the d800 is $3000 - there is also the d800e at $3299....  $3300 is very close to $3500.

Regardless of whether or not $3500 is too much to you and others, there are still enough people willing to pay $3500 that I'm sure there will be a waiting list at first.  I know there are people that really wanted one, but if you can't afford something you can't afford it.  Canon makes plenty of other cameras that cost less than that, so if $3500 is too much then people can always get something else.  I

I dont get why people expect a bargain basement price on one of the most highly-anticipated cameras of all-time.  I mean I know everyone wants everything for as cheap as possible, but if I complained about everything I wanted but can't afford I would be bitching for the rest of my life. 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Axilrod on February 22, 2012, 07:19:28 PM
I don't know if that's a killer feature the OP is talking about.  "The battery grip feels gripper" doesn't sound like a bullet point in marketing. But ok. I'll take your word for it. I've never held a D800 with a grip.

I suspect there may be a piece of information on the camera that Canon is keeping extremely quiet, kinda like when Apple did the whole iPad keynote and ended with "$499!" when everyone had been speculating it would be $999.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: JR on February 22, 2012, 07:22:10 PM
This is very exciting, but like others in this thread I am anxious to also see the ISO performance of this new camera.  While it has a top graded AF system, if the ISO performance is more or less the same as the current 5D, I will have to look at the 1DX for an upgrade path.

I also wonder how much delays we will see between announcement date and availability..
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: photochemist on February 22, 2012, 07:23:59 PM
The specification listed are probably good for those in sports, action, photojournalist, and similar photography that want something similar to the 1DX without the high price tag. However, for us landscape photographers it really is not much of an improvement. I am not concerned about the price and am willing to pay a reasonable amount for a professional camera. However, since I don't care about fps, have never used video, and have good success with the 5D Mark II autofocus, I don't really see an improvement for my work. I would be willing to pay more for a higher MP camera with slightly improved autofocus and 4 fps. Unless there is another ff body coming soon, that was rumored earlier with these specifications, I will not upgrading my current 5d II. I will remain a Canon client anxiously awaiting a professional body designed for us landscape photographers.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: psolberg on February 22, 2012, 07:24:58 PM
I pre-ordered a D800 but I think the Canon 5D3's gonna be a very nice camera. Nikon and Canon can do great things. Buy the one you're the most interest. And stop arguing... They are company who want to make money, that's all. That's the society.

well said sir. 2/3's of the people in this thread are more worried about how will they look next to a guy shooting with a D800 than what the 5DIII can do for them. seriously are you guys that insecure? I couldn't care less about the D800 because it isn't what I'm looking for. Likewise I'm sure D800 shooters couldn't care less about the 5DIII if they are bying the nikon for its strenghts. get over it, there is no king of all cameras. the 5DII wasn't perfect either.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tjc320 on February 22, 2012, 07:28:00 PM
My opinion:

The video functions in the 5D and 7D really created a huge demand for them that may not have been expected when they were first released...at least respectively. I'm from the video world and am seeing over half my peers using a Canon DSLR. Now, I know that the 5D's #1 goal is to be a great photography camera BUT there is no denying it's impact it has had on the video community. I think if the next 5D continues to push the envelope with its video functionality then I believe it may be worth the $3,500.

If it beats out the competition in both photography and video functionality it will be worth that extra $500.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: ksieb on February 22, 2012, 07:33:52 PM
Im only doing video with the mark 2, I own a t2-i and only used it for the 60 FPS.. .the only upgrate i want is a flip screen like the 60D and 60 FPS @ 1080P
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 07:34:56 PM
Now....at $3500, all I can say is it better have the 1Dx AF and metering, along with some decent weather sealing and the same kind of optional modules as the 1Dx.

I doubt it. History tells us how aggressively canon protected their 1D series, especially AF and build quality. In canon's world Top of the line AF belongs to 1D series. Period.

Even when d700 with pro AF was released, canon did not want to offer its pro AF to 5D series, instead they sacrificed their 21mp sensor, and  dumbed the AF.  as per Masaya Maeda, nobody complained about 5d AF.

Even in 1DX, HDMI output was crippled to protect their video cameras.

So i guess the new 5d may have dumbed down AF from 1Dx with fewer af points, no f8 focus, no pro weather sealing but "7D like weather proofing", FPS which won't threaten 1DX.

To canon's advantage, target market already has canon lenses, flash, tc etc.

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: GL on February 22, 2012, 07:35:16 PM
If the specs are spot-on, price is not an issue. $3500 is approximately the profit before tax from a wedding, so 2-3 weddings should cover the cost of two bodies + extras.

My wish list (for the past few years) - better AF, better ISO (+1 stop RAW over 5D2), dual card slots. This camera hits all three, plus gravy. I can see a high percentage of wedding photographers/videographers selling their 5D2's and buying two or more of these for the next 3-4 years.

If the FPS rumours are correct, I can see a high number of sports togs upgrading as well. Landscape togs should be more than happy with 22MP, and if DR is improved, even more so. It doesn't matter what the D800 can do - pros invested in canon glass and workflow will not want to switch systems, and this camera will keep them loyal for years.

Thanks Canon :)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: BXL on February 22, 2012, 07:36:10 PM
Though if I was Canon I would brand a 5d like body with superior autofocus a different name other than 5D like they did with the 7d to prevent confusion and better justify the price increase. I would keep the 5d/3 line a high megapixel like the Nikon D800 but with a lackluster autofocus and improved dynamic range for studio/landscape work required for large prints.
So we get the high performance 3D (5DX) and the 5DII will be replaced in a couple of months with a slightly improved 5DIII that keeps the crappy AF, low fps and will have a lighter polycarbonate instead of the magnesium alloy construction? If the price is right (~ $1999/€1999), this might be an interesting alternative.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 22, 2012, 07:36:34 PM
Now....at $3500, all I can say is it better have the 1Dx AF and metering, along with some decent weather sealing and the same kind of optional modules as the 1Dx.

I doubt it. History tells us how aggressively canon protected their 1D series, especially AF and build quality. In canon's world Top of the line AF belongs to 1D series. Period.

Even when d700 with pro AF was released, canon did not want to offer its pro AF to 5D series, instead they sacrificed their 21mp sensor, and  dumbed the AF.  as per Masaya Maeda, nobody complained about 5d AF.

Even in 1DX, HDMI output was crippled to protect their video cameras.

So i guess the new 5d may have dumbed down AF from 1Dx with fewer af points, no f8 focus, no pro weather sealing but "7D like weather proofing", FPS which won't threaten 1DX.

To canon's advantage, target market already has canon lenses, flash, tc etc.

You may be correct, in part (it is already CR3 for 61 AF pts though so you are wrong about them removing points) but if so, I think they are in trouble. D800 would make it look silly, especially costing $500 less, if they gave it a crippled 1DX AF and low fps.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Smith on February 22, 2012, 07:37:38 PM
Here's some additional thoughts regarding the $3500 price

1) The AF may have a dedicated DIGIC4 processor like the 1DX.

2) The built in radio to communicate with the new 590EX flash would great progress. TTL and hypersync capabilities off camera without having to use expensive Pocketwizard solutions.

3) Canon hasn't set the exact price yet. It might come in at $3400 and retailers may discount further from there. Canon may also offer rebates if you purchase with the 590EX or other lenses. Retailers may also discount to adjust for competition. Nikon has issued a new policy so that no discounting is allowed. Thus they must launch at a reasonable price.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tjc320 on February 22, 2012, 07:38:56 PM
HOW ABOUT A 4K VIDEO to justify the price, given how popular the 5dII was among filmmakers.

I think it's happening.  8)

Wont happen, it would eat up the sales of the 4K Cinema DSLR and that's definitely going to be a more expensive camera.  I'm sure it will have improved video, hopefully reduced moire and less banding, no rolling shutter.  All of that seems possible considering video on the 5DII was an afterthought.

You don't think that a 5D X is the 4K Cinema DSLR that they were referring to? If they split the 5D line I can see one of them being more video orientated. I'm just spewing opinions but I'm really hoping for large video improvements since that's my profession. Especially if they want to keep Nikon out of the video market.

I don't agree that it would eat out of the C300 market. The people buying them are out of completely different ponds. The C300 well makes up for it's price in it's features and functionality alone. Even if they were both 4K I'm sure they wouldn't be the same quality. Professional shoots demand convenience in order to save time and shooting with a DSLR certainly isn't convenient.

Hollywood is using footage from 5DMIIs all the time! They are essentially disposable cameras. The problem is that they aren't 4K. Theaters project a 4K image and if they provided that Hollywood would be all over it. Action films would eat them for breakfast.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: zim on February 22, 2012, 07:46:39 PM
With this CR3 does that mean an end to the high mp version rumour? and does this suggest no response to the (E)? Don’t need the higher mp’s myself, just asking, but no reaction to the d800e I find more interesting.

If high iso raw is better than current mkii then these base specs (without the detail) look favourable to the d800 to me.

As for the price, rumoured to be around $3500 which is £2235 the D800 pre-order at warehouse express is £2399.00 so apart from the uk vat man am I missing something here?

Looking forward to seeing the raw iso comparisons, hope we don't have to wait to long for them!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: djw on February 22, 2012, 07:47:35 PM
Anyone heard of 'anchor pricing' - the idea is to establish the idea of a price in someone's head (whether they can afford it or not). Then discount it. People think the vendor is doing them a huge favour. If I were Canon, I would be seeding these rumours into the market in just the way we have seen today, and everyone is "ooh, can I afford it, ouch", etc. Then announce it next week at say $3000 or $3200, and everyone thinks - "wow what a bargain!". Maybe they are right, and it is a bargain. But for me, just like with eBay purchases, the only thing that matters is 'is it worth it' not how much it has been discounted or what the exchange rate is...

I agree with BillyBean's anchor pricing comment.

Everyone here seems to want a 5D replacement but there are the "$3500 is OK" and the "my max. is $3000" camps. Imagine how many will 'pull the trigger' if the final RRP is closer to $3300? -- esp. if Canon announce: weather sealing, clean HDMI and user-selectable AA filter ;-)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 07:53:06 PM
D800 would make it look silly, especially costing $500 less, if they gave it a crippled 1DX AF and low fps.

But how many would switch camps for $500? 

Traditionally nikon offered maximum features within the given price point, whereas canon offered features to stay competitive within the price point. They even to went to the level of bringing down 60d to allow room for premium on 7d. Nothing wrong with that. It is just marketing and both companies have different ways to differentiate product lines.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: zim on February 22, 2012, 07:54:36 PM
user-selectable AA  :o :o :o
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: psolberg on February 22, 2012, 07:55:32 PM
HOW ABOUT A 4K VIDEO to justify the price, given how popular the 5dII was among filmmakers.

I think it's happening.  8)

Wont happen, it would eat up the sales of the 4K Cinema DSLR and that's definitely going to be a more expensive camera.  I'm sure it will have improved video, hopefully reduced moire and less banding, no rolling shutter.  All of that seems possible considering video on the 5DII was an afterthought.

You don't think that a 5D X is the 4K Cinema DSLR that they were referring to? If they split the 5D line I can see one of them being more video orientated. I'm just spewing opinions but I'm really hoping for large video improvements since that's my profession. Especially if they want to keep Nikon out of the video market.

I don't agree that it would eat out of the C300 market. The people buying them are out of completely different ponds. The C300 well makes up for it's price in it's features and functionality alone. Even if they were both 4K I'm sure they wouldn't be the same quality. Professional shoots demand convenience in order to save time and shooting with a DSLR certainly isn't convenient.

Hollywood is using footage from 5DMIIs all the time! They are essentially disposable cameras. The problem is that they aren't 4K. Theaters project a 4K image and if they provided that Hollywood would be all over it. Action films would eat them for breakfast.

doubt it. the 1DX can't do 4K. The C300 can't do 4K. this won't do it either. This is a still pictures camera that shoots video. This is not a video camera that shoots stills. subtle difference, yet it is critical.

Quote
But how many would switch camps for $500? 

nobody. but if you're considering switching you're already admitting the canon isn't for you. Being more expensive isn't going to help it. 3.5K isn't terrible. Look at that 24-70 II. lacks IS and it is a truckload of money more expensive.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Arkarch on February 22, 2012, 07:56:36 PM
I'm okay with the specs, but I think everyone's situation varies.

I'm primarily landscapes, adventure sports, low-light events.  Not pro - but working that direction long-term.  I got a 7D last year because I just was not going to buy a 3-4 year old 5D.  Now in hindsight I probably would have enjoyed the 5DMarkII for landscape; but I am sure the reported AF issues would have crushed me on sports and events.

About anything 5D and in particular the new 5D with these specs will be an improvement.  I have been debating the whole high MP thing  5DIII vs 5DX - and really I think it is best to wait a generation before leaping into high Megapixel ranges.  As nice as 36 MP is, I am seeing noise in the Nikon D800 samples.  Its the same kind of noise I see in the 7D.  So I dont need to trade noise at Crop for noise on Full Frame.  If the 5D-whatever gives me a cleaner IQ, more dynamic range, higher ISO image - I say bring it on.

My only wish-for in the specs was that it was more like 26-28 MP.  But in the math, that really is not much bigger. 

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: CowGummy on February 22, 2012, 07:57:01 PM
With this CR3 does that mean an end to the high mp version rumour? and does this suggest no response to the (E)? Don’t need the higher mp’s myself, just asking, but no reaction to the d800e I find more interesting.

If high iso raw is better than current mkii then these base specs (without the detail) look favourable to the d800 to me.

As for the price, rumoured to be around $3500 which is £2235 the D800 pre-order at warehouse express is £2399.00 so apart from the uk vat man am I missing something here?

Looking forward to seeing the raw iso comparisons, hope we don't have to wait to long for them!

... Again: I very much doubt a price point of $3500 will end up being a UK price in line with a fair conversion rate. New tech in the UK usually comes in at $=£ or round about there. Down the line the price will drop, but we're talking 6-12 months after launch. I hope I'm proven wrong, but that's the way I've seen new tech being priced over here.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Lee Jay on February 22, 2012, 07:59:45 PM
Change it to 1.6 crop, f/8 AF sensors, and everything else the same for $1,700 and I might be in.  For this, I'll keep my 5D (not II).

That sounds more like a 7DII than a 5dmkiii

Right!

To sell me a 5DIII it would have to be something like 46MP with several still and video crop modes - and f/8 AF sensors.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: ttmphotography on February 22, 2012, 08:00:32 PM
I'm not really sure why everyone is hung up on what other cameras sold for when they were first announced.

The only thing I compare it to or care about is what is available and on the market TODAY as far as competition and what is that price TODAY.
So, for example a 5D mark II is about 2,100 new ebay or 2,400 new retail right now.
That is really what the mark III will need to compete with or show that it can outshine the mark II by $1,100 to $1,400
Forget what the yen is out now or was at 3 years ago, can the mark III be a viable product in the US now at a $3,500 price point?

In the case of the new ebay mark II it is a 66% increase.

Kind of the same as buying a new car, I go down and see what is new on the lot already (last years model) and when they announce the new 2012 is X price is it really worth spending that much more for the other new one sitting right next to it. If it has a bunch of upgrades then it's worth it possibly, but I really don't ask how much the one on the lot was priced at when it came out.

It's interesting to me that most things that are technical in nature like computers, monitors, etc... tend to get better every year and the price drops every year for the same features. I don't really understand why cameras don't fall in that realm, it's a shame isn't it?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: BXL on February 22, 2012, 08:00:51 PM
With a price of $3500 for the next 5D I actually don't believe that the 7D will be merged with the 5D. There is still enough room for a pro-grade APS-C Camera. Maybe the next 7D (II or X) will get some of the features of the rumored 5D as well. Like dual SD- and CF-Card, 61 points AF, more fps...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: keithfullermusic on February 22, 2012, 08:02:09 PM
D800 would make it look silly, especially costing $500 less, if they gave it a crippled 1DX AF and low fps.

But how many would switch camps for $500? 

Traditionally nikon offered maximum features within the given price point, whereas canon offered features to stay competitive within the price point. They even to went to the level of bringing down 60d to allow room for premium on 7d. Nothing wrong with that. It is just marketing and both companies have different ways to differentiate product lines.


I'm not going to switch, but $500 is a month's rent!!!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: zim on February 22, 2012, 08:04:43 PM
With this CR3 does that mean an end to the high mp version rumour? and does this suggest no response to the (E)? Don’t need the higher mp’s myself, just asking, but no reaction to the d800e I find more interesting.

If high iso raw is better than current mkii then these base specs (without the detail) look favourable to the d800 to me.

As for the price, rumoured to be around $3500 which is £2235 the D800 pre-order at warehouse express is £2399.00 so apart from the uk vat man am I missing something here?

Looking forward to seeing the raw iso comparisons, hope we don't have to wait to long for them!

... Again: I very much doubt a price point of $3500 will end up being a UK price in line with a fair conversion rate. New tech in the UK usually comes in at $=£ or round about there. Down the line the price will drop, but we're talking 6-12 months after launch. I hope I'm proven wrong, but that's the way I've seen new tech being priced over here.

understand and unfortunatly you may well be right, I can wait!  :'(
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: moreorless on February 22, 2012, 08:13:37 PM
D800 would make it look silly, especially costing $500 less, if they gave it a crippled 1DX AF and low fps.

But how many would switch camps for $500? 

Traditionally nikon offered maximum features within the given price point, whereas canon offered features to stay competitive within the price point. They even to went to the level of bringing down 60d to allow room for premium on 7d. Nothing wrong with that. It is just marketing and both companies have different ways to differentiate product lines.

I don't see that as being the case, with the 5D mk2 vs the D700 Canon offered superior resolution and video while Nikon offered superior AF, build and FPS. If this camera and the D800 end up as long term competitors in the same fashion Nikon are now offering superior resolution while Canon offer superior ISO and FPS.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tjc320 on February 22, 2012, 08:14:04 PM
I'm still hung up on the CF/SD card slots...I hate using SD. I've had a few of them go bad on me and that's enough to scare me away from them. I guess if it could save jpegs to SD and RAW to CF that wouldn't be a bad way to have a backup / quick reference card. I'd prefer dual CF slots.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Arkarch on February 22, 2012, 08:18:32 PM
I'm still hung up on the CF/SD card slots...I hate using SD. I've had a few of them go bad on me and that's enough to scare me away from them. I guess if it could save jpegs to SD and RAW to CF that wouldn't be a bad way to have a backup / quick reference card. I'd prefer dual CF slots.

Got to add - yeah, I am also in the dual CF card crowd.

Having done computer projects with large numbers of SD cards, I have absolutely no trust for them.  And I have no need to have preview or family jpegs.  Wasted feature.

But we will wait to see the specs.   Not a deal killer, just an annoyance.

You know what would be better would be a changeable card drive. 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jrista on February 22, 2012, 08:18:40 PM
Everyone needs to understand the difference between LIST and STREET prices. The Canon 5D Mark II when released listed for US$2799, however (rebates/sales excluded) usually streets for about US$2499 (body only). Average price range for the 5D II can be anywhere from $2000 to as high as $4000 with an extended kit, factoring in rebates and sales.

Adjusting the original 2008 list price of $2799 for inflation through now in 2012, the list price would land squarely at $3000 adjusted. So the difference is not really $1500 for better AF and an extra megapixel (and probably a vastly improved sensor like the 1D X's)...the difference when you adjust for inflation is about $500...which is FAR, FAR more reasonable if you ask me, and certainly easier to swallow than a $6800 price tag for the 1D X.


I'm really quite bummed about the CF/SD bit...I'd much prefer two CF slots, or perhaps a CF slot and an XQD or something capable of SDXC speeds.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Waterdonkey on February 22, 2012, 08:20:04 PM

"Oh I hate that crap. I really wanted 2 x CF. I just don't see the point of using 2 formats. I can understand it for peeps upgrading from a cam who have already SD's. Guess I'm turning back to the 1D X...
"


+1 What are they thinking? Two different types of media? Madness! 
I'm still going to get one ::)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: psycho5 on February 22, 2012, 08:20:12 PM
It's all good.... my 7D is plenty enough for now and I must say 22mp can't be the real number given the D800 specs... Why would Canon develop a sensor of this size when the 18mp 1Dx sensor would suit just fine AND lower costs??? A 4mp difference is stupid, so I'm calling bull on these specs.

The sensor has to either be:

Crazy high mp equal or higher than the D800
1Sx sensor @ 18mp

I also think the next 7D will be a $1999 full frame while the 70D will take the current 7D's role in build quality, FPS, and king of the Canon crops... should this be true, than the next 7D must have the 1Dx sensor and the 5DIII will Me_Me_Me the D800 in terms of resolution and pixels
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: fotoray on February 22, 2012, 08:23:02 PM
It's interesting to me that most things that are technical in nature like computers, monitors, etc... tend to get better every year and the price drops every year for the same features. I don't really understand why cameras don't fall in that realm, it's a shame isn't it?

+1 Top of the line computers have sold for similar price for some time - with added features and performance.  Why not cameras too?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jrista on February 22, 2012, 08:25:17 PM
It's all good.... my 7D is plenty enough for now and I must say 22mp can't be the real number given the D800 specs... Why would Canon develop a sensor of this size when the 18mp 1Dx sensor would suit just fine AND lower costs??? A 4mp difference is stupid, so I'm calling bull on these specs.

Remember, this was rated CR3, which are effectively facts. CR1/2 can usually be speculated about, but I would be extremely surprised if the actual released product is something other than 22mp. Its been mentioned that 22mp is beneficial for video pulldown and encoding, and if the 5D III is expected to excel at video, its not surprising a megapixel count beneficial to video was chosen.

I personally am going to bide my time and wait for other Canon announcements this year. My 7D will hold me tidy for quite some time. This is just another camera release, but certainly not the last of the year...perhaps something that caters more to those who need higher resolution will be released by end of year.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Neeneko on February 22, 2012, 08:29:19 PM
In addition to hopefully full 1DX what if it has:

vastly better video with no moire/aliasing/full RGB per pixel/much better SNR

7fps vs 4fps (although if you don;t care about the better AF you prob don't care about this either, granted)

those aren't minor things by any means

and we could hope it also has:
2.5 stops better usable DR at ISO100 (although I have doubts, but to match Nikon it would basically need this)
2/3 stop better SNR

I admit, more DR at low ISO is nice, though most of the time if I want that I just use AEB+HDR.

I think as some one else commented, it looks like this version would be intended for a similar audience as the 1Dx.. sports, journalism, and videoographers.

For studio, landscape, and other 'long setup' type photography these new bodies feel like Canon is moving away from those markets.  Which is why personally I am hopeful they are going to split the 5D line or introduce a new body that addresses the needs of those markets,.. otherwise there might be a shift away from Canon.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 22, 2012, 08:33:50 PM
I really hope they bump AEB up to 7  with +/-3
5 as an absolute minimum though
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: JoeDavid on February 22, 2012, 08:34:47 PM
The two different types of media never really made sense to me when they were doing it on the pro bodies.  At least with the 1D X they've done it right (finally!). 

As for the pricing.  I agree that Canon is out of their minds.  Over the long term they have to compete with Nikon which includes pricing on similar cameras.  I'm currently using both a 1DM4 and a 5D2 and would consider upgrading to the 1D X but I've just about decided not to.  The D4 was announced at $5999 and is very similar and obviously aimed at the same group of photographers.  So the 1DX has 2MP more and 2FPS higher; to me that's not a big deal.  The D4 focuses down to f8, has and HDR function (which may or may not be useful), and for those who care about video it also has RAW HDMI output for external recording.  The interesting thing is that all of those items are also included in the newly announced D800/E including the upgraded color metering.  The last time I checked with the retailer I purchase the high dollar items through, Canon still hadn't finalized the price of the 1DX with them so maybe they are re-thinking the pricing...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 22, 2012, 08:37:32 PM
D800 would make it look silly, especially costing $500 less, if they gave it a crippled 1DX AF and low fps.

But how many would switch camps for $500? 

Traditionally nikon offered maximum features within the given price point, whereas canon offered features to stay competitive within the price point. They even to went to the level of bringing down 60d to allow room for premium on 7d. Nothing wrong with that. It is just marketing and both companies have different ways to differentiate product lines.

Yeah but it is not just $500 then if the AF is super crippled 1DX and the fps are low then it's also worse specs along with $500 more.

If it is 4fps again and 22MP again there may be some 5D2 users who stay put rather than put up $1500 for somewhat improved AF.

If it is 7fps and 1DX AF then it's a different story.

And from the user's standpoint how can you not say the nikon style of giving the most they can for a price instead of giving the least they can get away with for a price is not better? LOL
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: psycho5 on February 22, 2012, 08:38:01 PM
I really hope they bump AEB up to 7  with +/-3
5 as an absolute minimum though

I second that, HDR is a thing for me now... I think Trey is right that HDR is the way forward, done right that is and not looking like a surreal mess
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 22, 2012, 08:40:06 PM

"Oh I hate that crap. I really wanted 2 x CF. I just don't see the point of using 2 formats. I can understand it for peeps upgrading from a cam who have already SD's. Guess I'm turning back to the 1D X...
"


+1 What are they thinking? Two different types of media? Madness! 
I'm still going to get one ::)

for those who don't backup on the spot, it lets you use your current CF cards while buying SD for your new cards and being able to use both
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 22, 2012, 08:43:28 PM
I really hope they bump AEB up to 7  with +/-3
5 as an absolute minimum though

I second that, HDR is a thing for me now... I think Trey is right that HDR is the way forward, done right that is and not looking like a surreal mess
while I have massive amounts of respect for trey, i am well over the photomatix cookie cutter HDR
I discovered this guy a while ago who has a novel take on it, his stuff has a really well crafted more natural look to it http://goodlight.us/ (http://goodlight.us/)
he even sells his photoshop actions for $20 but he gives all the info to make them yourself for free
its a very interesting read if you are into HDR
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: KWSW on February 22, 2012, 08:46:45 PM
Replace my 7D with this or as they say back here in my country, eat grass and get the 1DX since the 5D3/X is almost half the price of the 1DX...

Or maybe sell both the 7D and the 1D4 and get two of these...

decisions decisions...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: moreorless on February 22, 2012, 08:49:51 PM
I'm really quite bummed about the CF/SD bit...I'd much prefer two CF slots, or perhaps a CF slot and an XQD or something capable of SDXC speeds.

I'm guessing this is the price Canon have to pay for releasing a camera that competes more directly with its own flagship than Nikon's crop body.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: psycho5 on February 22, 2012, 08:51:53 PM
I really hope they bump AEB up to 7  with +/-3
5 as an absolute minimum though

I second that, HDR is a thing for me now... I think Trey is right that HDR is the way forward, done right that is and not looking like a surreal mess
while I have massive amounts of respect for trey, i am well over the photomatix cookie cutter HDR
I discovered this guy a while ago who has a novel take on it, his stuff has a really well crafted more natural look to it http://goodlight.us/ (http://goodlight.us/)
he even sells his photoshop actions for $20 but he gives all the info to make them yourself for free
its a very interesting read if you are into HDR

Thank you so much! NATURAL HDR is my new journey and gave my 7D it's second wind...finally made me appreciate 8fps whenever I am without the tripod.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Arkarch on February 22, 2012, 08:55:46 PM
for those who don't backup on the spot, it lets you use your current CF cards while buying SD for your new cards and being able to use both

Why would you want to do that?   I have seen way too many dead SD cards and on a client shoot, that would be fatal.    Now if it is XQD I could see that as a progression.  Or perhaps if you can "RAID 1" the cards for backup.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 22, 2012, 09:00:04 PM
for those who don't backup on the spot, it lets you use your current CF cards while buying SD for your new cards and being able to use both

Why would you want to do that?   I have seen way too many dead SD cards and on a client shoot, that would be fatal.    Now if it is XCD (?) I could see that as a progression.  Or perhaps if you can "RAID 1" the cards for backup.

Not all shoots are for clients.

But a serious question, so SD cards are much more prone to failure than CF?
So far I've lost a total of a single shot (not shoot, shot) using CF cards over six years of sometimes heavy usage, so for regular shooting it hasn't been a worry for me using CF cards.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Waterdonkey on February 22, 2012, 09:05:19 PM


"I find the CF+SD card choice a bit odd.  IMO, 2 CF slots makes more sense for camera in 5D family.  It makes even more sense to include the new XQD card format - which has size similar to SD, but thickness of CF.   This would be paving the way to use the latest card technology. "
 


This "paving the way" Point is VERY interesting. I'm coming to this from a video point of view and the getting of the info on to the card is the bottleneck. The XQD is fast. Hummmm
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 22, 2012, 09:08:08 PM
i hate that the little lock switches on SD cards break off too easily rendering them completely useless, If they made them without those It might improved the durability of them
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: RedEye on February 22, 2012, 09:22:40 PM
It's not going to be 22MP... it's not going to be 22MP ... it's not going to be 22MP!  This is nonsensical and makes no sense between the two largest market competitors. 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: maxxevv on February 22, 2012, 09:30:54 PM
Strange, I distinctly remembered that the 5DmkII launch price was US$2799 or US$2899 back those 3 years plus ago.   ???

In any case, its not a direct 5D replacement if you consider the features. 

Its somewhat like the difference between the 50D and the 7D at launch and the difference in % between those 2 cameras.  When you actually calculate the % difference, this one is actually less ! 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Martin on February 22, 2012, 09:47:16 PM
Unbelievable. I took 3 years to put good but probably old AF to 5d2. Now we gonna pay much more for standard product which should be in offer 3 years ago. Nothing special, nothing great...as always. Now guys from Canon will test their marketing and psychology knowledge to make us extremely happy that the company created a camera that can follow market standards with AF.... 22Mp would be great in nowadays market (pretty enough for me) if they improve ISO and dynamic range. Really hope they will do that. AF presented in rumor should be a standard (maybe with less points), even 3 years ago, not a great improvement. Canon made us think that that is outstanding. NO! It is a standard at present.  I own a lot of lenses from Canon but have no camera (sold 5d2 last week). Now I am just waiting what will come. Decision maker, sell and go with Nikon or stay and buy 5d3. Anyway, doesn't it sound strange for you-competition launches a 36Mpix camera  with probably good ISO, nice dynamic range (should not be worse than d700), very, very good and reliable AF, and "our" Canon will just improve AF in new product in order to follow a kind of market standard (AF that just works in many conditions and accurately hits the target). Can't be! Hope that i am wrong. In other words-I am just confused-why should I stay with Canon, despite the fact that i own 5 lenses? I am just trying to answer the question for myself for several months waiting for new 5D and being a little bit frustrated with 5d2 after my long experience with N.D300. Is that really possible that they will miss a customers expectations so much? If they will, what have they been doing for such a long time? Trying to put several components into one body? Seems strange for me.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: D_Rochat on February 22, 2012, 09:59:16 PM
I'm very excited about this release. Sure $3500 (+grip) is slightly more than I was expecting, but like others mentioned, it'll be a little less once it hits the streets. If it has a decent frame rate, this will be the ultimate "do everything" FF camera, from studio to sports, at around $3k. That's a pretty sexy camera to me. I'm on the edge of my seat with this one and I've got a significant discount lined up that may get me one even cheaper.

Canon could still release a second version that is the MP monster that some really want. Sit tight and see what happens.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 10:05:31 PM
I don't see that as being the case, with the 5D mk2 vs the D700 Canon offered superior resolution and video while Nikon offered superior AF, build and FPS.

I respectfully disagree. It wasn't like canon wanted to offer superior resolution, they had no other choice as they will never offer pro AF in anything other than 1D series. So canon decided to sacrifice 1Ds sensor to protect their 1D sports market.  If they did it the other way and offered pro AF, pro built, weatherseals in $2500 body, how are they gonna justify their $4500 1D?

Video was added by their marketing as a gimmick and it worked.

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 10:06:48 PM
I really hope they bump AEB up to 7  with +/-3
5 as an absolute minimum though

I second that, HDR is a thing for me now... I think Trey is right that HDR is the way forward, done right that is and not looking like a surreal mess

Buy 1 series body. Lol, it is not me. That is how it works in canon world.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: dash2k8 on February 22, 2012, 10:10:56 PM
Someone might have mentioned it already, but I have to say it: I hate the CF/SD thing. Why not just CF x2?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mws on February 22, 2012, 10:11:12 PM
I really hope they bump AEB up to 7  with +/-3
5 as an absolute minimum though

I second that, HDR is a thing for me now... I think Trey is right that HDR is the way forward, done right that is and not looking like a surreal mess

Buy 1 series body. Lol, it is not me. That is how it works in canon world.

There is always Magic Lantern. It's easier to use then you think. I put it on my 50D just because I wanted to try out the video on it for the heck of it, and was quite impressed with all the other features.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: SPG on February 22, 2012, 10:14:48 PM
I don't agree that it would eat out of the C300 market. The people buying them are out of completely different ponds. The C300 well makes up for it's price in it's features and functionality alone. Even if they were both 4K I'm sure they wouldn't be the same quality. Professional shoots demand convenience in order to save time and shooting with a DSLR certainly isn't convenient.

Hollywood is using footage from 5DMIIs all the time! They are essentially disposable cameras. The problem is that they aren't 4K. Theaters project a 4K image and if they provided that Hollywood would be all over it. Action films would eat them for breakfast.
Most theaters do NOT project in 4k. They're still mostly 2k. The reason why there is some demand for a 4k camera (besides the "mine is bigger!" crowd) is for post production and processing flexibility, although it actually complicates the post production workflow and adds expense. One of the reasons why the C300 is not a 4k camera is for workflow. It's intended to give a really good image right out of the camera so you don't have to grade or color correct every single frame that you shot. Shoot it, load it in, edit, output...fast and still looks good. Ever see the RED 4k footage straight out of the camera? Not so good. It holds up amazingly well in grading, but by the time you're even ready to edit the footage the C300's footage will already be airing on TV. Not a big deal for a feature movie, but a real big deal for fast turn around TV work.
4k is nice at this point for future proofing, but most people won't have anywhere to show 4k footage for years.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Daniel Flather on February 22, 2012, 10:27:21 PM

Canon needs to do better to distinguish the market for EF and EF-S lenses and the same for EOS bodies.
Currently, they mix it all up without marketing the advantages of FF or crop properly. If I'm shopping for a Toyota, don't show me a Lexus. It makes the customer feel like they are getting an inferior product.



Very good point.  If the aps-c is here to stay the current ef-s line up needs a little work.  No fast primes (no primes except the 60, but that does not count). Canon does very little to market the crop vs ff.  I know the vast majority of rebel buyers don't care about it , but I think they might be missing some potential sales overall.    I have a 50d and I've been waiting for the new 5d for a long time. 

Where did CR get this spec list?  It's not official so it still can change —it's not from Canon.

Let's make it official and give me my f#*%#ng 5d3!

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Daniel Flather on February 22, 2012, 10:34:08 PM
It's interesting to me that most things that are technical in nature like computers, monitors, etc... tend to get better every year and the price drops every year for the same features. I don't really understand why cameras don't fall in that realm, it's a shame isn't it?

+1 Top of the line computers have sold for similar price for some time - with added features and performance.  Why not cameras too?

If the 5d was released in 1999, what would have been its cost then verses today?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 22, 2012, 10:36:11 PM
I really hope they bump AEB up to 7  with +/-3
5 as an absolute minimum though

I second that, HDR is a thing for me now... I think Trey is right that HDR is the way forward, done right that is and not looking like a surreal mess

Buy 1 series body. Lol, it is not me. That is how it works in canon world.
As the frenchman in monthy python and the holy grail said " I've Already got one"
Just would like my 5D to be able to do it, I prefer the non gripped form factor over the 1 series bulk
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: D.Sim on February 22, 2012, 10:37:30 PM
woah... impressive... very impressive
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 10:46:29 PM
I really hope they bump AEB up to 7  with +/-3
5 as an absolute minimum though

I second that, HDR is a thing for me now... I think Trey is right that HDR is the way forward, done right that is and not looking like a surreal mess

Buy 1 series body. Lol, it is not me. That is how it works in canon world.

There is always Magic Lantern. It's easier to use then you think. I put it on my 50D just because I wanted to try out the video on it for the heck of it, and was quite impressed with all the other features.

Sure, but that is a third party solution. Is there a hardware limitation stopping them offering AEB upto 7 ?
Their marketing decided that you have to cough up for 1 series body for that feature.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: bvukich on February 22, 2012, 10:47:13 PM
It's interesting to me that most things that are technical in nature like computers, monitors, etc... tend to get better every year and the price drops every year for the same features. I don't really understand why cameras don't fall in that realm, it's a shame isn't it?

+1 Top of the line computers have sold for similar price for some time - with added features and performance.  Why not cameras too?

If the 5d was released in 1999 what would have been its cost then verses today?

Orders of magnitude more.

But for some perspective....  The 5D was released October 2005 for $3299USD.  Adjusted for inflation that's $3828.82 today ( http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Calculators/Inflation_Rate_Calculator.asp (http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Calculators/Inflation_Rate_Calculator.asp) ) .
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 10:50:37 PM
if Canon announce: weather sealing, clean HDMI and user-selectable AA filter ;-)

Lol, i guess you gotta mix up of brands..!!

When HDMI is crippled in 1Dx, their flagship, why would they implement it in 5D ?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: EchoLocation on February 22, 2012, 10:51:15 PM
Just to start off, I'm not a Nikon Fan Boy at all. I own a 5DC and 24-105 and 50 1.4 along with a speedlite.

BUT.... I don't see how these specs justify a 1000 dollar price increase from the 5DII to III....
The only significant upgrades are in the AF and the FPS. Technology should go down in price somewhat, not up.
Outside of video, it was widely considered that Nikon had the upper hand with the D700 vs the 5DII.
The AF on the 5DII was a joke(literally,) which makes me a little nervous about any 1st Gen Canon AF system.

One of the main reasons I chose Canon over Nikon was their more reasonable lens and body prices.
Now we have the 24-70 at 2300dollars compared to Nikons at 1850
and the 5DIII at 3500 compared to the D800 at 3000.
 
While Canon fans love Canon.... There is definitely no overall consensus that Canon is better than Nikon, in fact i'd say it's more the opposite.

I am really having a hard time seeing how the 5DIII should be priced 500 dollars more than the D800(which has a proven pro level AF system, more MP(which I actually don't want at all))

I wouldn't buy the D800 because I literally don't want 36MP at all... but the D700 is looking wayyyyy better to me than the 5DII.

I think Canon really screwed up on pricing, as I was totally prepared to see a 2800 opening price with a street price of 2500 dollars.

All I really wanted was a 5DII with a 7D AF system at around 2300 dollars.... which is something I thought very possible after 3+ years of being out...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tjc320 on February 22, 2012, 10:52:53 PM
I don't agree that it would eat out of the C300 market. The people buying them are out of completely different ponds. The C300 well makes up for it's price in it's features and functionality alone. Even if they were both 4K I'm sure they wouldn't be the same quality. Professional shoots demand convenience in order to save time and shooting with a DSLR certainly isn't convenient.

Hollywood is using footage from 5DMIIs all the time! They are essentially disposable cameras. The problem is that they aren't 4K. Theaters project a 4K image and if they provided that Hollywood would be all over it. Action films would eat them for breakfast.
Most theaters do NOT project in 4k. They're still mostly 2k. The reason why there is some demand for a 4k camera (besides the "mine is bigger!" crowd) is for post production and processing flexibility, although it actually complicates the post production workflow and adds expense. One of the reasons why the C300 is not a 4k camera is for workflow. It's intended to give a really good image right out of the camera so you don't have to grade or color correct every single frame that you shot. Shoot it, load it in, edit, output...fast and still looks good. Ever see the RED 4k footage straight out of the camera? Not so good. It holds up amazingly well in grading, but by the time you're even ready to edit the footage the C300's footage will already be airing on TV. Not a big deal for a feature movie, but a real big deal for fast turn around TV work.
4k is nice at this point for future proofing, but most people won't have anywhere to show 4k footage for years.

You're right. I didn't look into how many theaters actually implement 4K projectors. I just knew that theaters can project a 4K image. Most of which are large chain theaters. However, I believe that large productions that have the budgets to use DSLRs as disposable could use the 4K because those are the films that are outputting for 4K.

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/mkt-digitalcinema/resource.latest.bbsccms-assets-mkt-digicinema-latest-4kmoviereleaseslisting.shtml#2011 (http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/mkt-digitalcinema/resource.latest.bbsccms-assets-mkt-digicinema-latest-4kmoviereleaseslisting.shtml#2011)
http://sony.links.channelintelligence.com/oemsites/6553221/4K/sony4k.html?pg=2 (http://sony.links.channelintelligence.com/oemsites/6553221/4K/sony4k.html?pg=2)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 10:53:08 PM
The 5D was released October 2005 for $3299USD.  Adjusted for inflation that's $3828.82 today ( http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Calculators/Inflation_Rate_Calculator.asp (http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Calculators/Inflation_Rate_Calculator.asp) ) .

Kool, I remember seeing the pioneer plasma for $10k years ago. I guess we should adjust it for inflation as well.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: BDD on February 22, 2012, 11:07:12 PM
"CR3" status? If so, I might be putting in an order for the 5D3/X. Is there only going to be the one model now? No split (2 ver)?? And there's no mention yet of the native ISO range. That's all I still need to know. Will it be the same as the 1D-X (e.g. 100-51,200...max 204,800)? Or 100-12,800 like the D3s/D4 (Nikon)?

Going to be a great year for photogs. Lots of sought after models. Canon 1D-X, 5D3/X, 7D2...Nikon D800/D4.

Actually, a great year for tech in general. Apple's iPhone 5 on the way (end of year). Apple's iPad 3. More 4G LTE smartphones...etc.

The only thing I'm not crazy about is the $1000 CAD price hike. What gives? Though, if we get the CR3 specs + 100-51,200 native ISO, I'll still end up paying.

As for the cost of Canon lenses vs. Nikon...Canon glass is more expensive in Toronto. Difference is Canon has the better selection.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 11:07:59 PM
And from the user's standpoint how can you not say the nikon style of giving the most they can for a price instead of giving the least they can get away with for a price is not better? LOL

I am totally with you. but if the market overlooks that fact and continue buying canon equipment, why would canon change its strategy?

One good example is how d7000 was improved closer to d300 and how 60d was crippled and brought closer to rebel.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tooslick2k on February 22, 2012, 11:08:36 PM

That sounds more like a 7DII than a 5dmkiii

I thought they were discontinuing the 7D line since the 5Dmk3 has all of its best features and then some?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 11:12:28 PM

One of the main reasons I chose Canon over Nikon was their more reasonable lens and body prices.
Now we have the 24-70 at 2300dollars compared to Nikons at 1850
and the 5DIII at 3500 compared to the D800 at 3000.

canadian prices are still better. Lowest price is $1647 for nikon 24-70mm
http://www.photoprice.ca/product/00814/Nikon-AF-S-Zoom-Nikkor-24-70mm-f2.8-G-IF-ED-price.html (http://www.photoprice.ca/product/00814/Nikon-AF-S-Zoom-Nikkor-24-70mm-f2.8-G-IF-ED-price.html)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: timkbryant on February 22, 2012, 11:13:52 PM
I am impressed with the specs as we know them

And while I view $3500 as a lot for a camera, considering I have no plans to upgrade for many months, I am fine with the price as it will likely be different (and quite probably lower) by the time I'm ready to pull the trigger.

Until then, I shall read up on the reviews from people who have handled the new 5D and go from there.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 11:14:19 PM

That sounds more like a 7DII than a 5dmkiii

I thought they were discontinuing the 7D line since the 5Dmk3 has all of its best features and then some?

My guess is they have established a new price point for 5dmk3 to allow room for new 7DII
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: D.Sim on February 22, 2012, 11:18:13 PM
And from the user's standpoint how can you not say the nikon style of giving the most they can for a price instead of giving the least they can get away with for a price is not better? LOL

I am totally with you. but if the market overlooks that fact and continue buying canon equipment, why would canon change its strategy?

One good example is how d7000 was improved closer to d300 and how 60d was crippled and brought closer to rebel.

And the 7D went crash boom bang?

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 11:25:26 PM
if Canon announce: weather sealing, clean HDMI and user-selectable AA filter ;-)

watch this video from 06:10. You would know why you won't see clean HDMI

Canon EOS-1D X (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fShwVsonJFs#ws)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tooslick2k on February 22, 2012, 11:26:43 PM
It's all good.... my 7D is plenty enough for now and I must say 22mp can't be the real number given the D800 specs... Why would Canon develop a sensor of this size when the 18mp 1Dx sensor would suit just fine AND lower costs??? A 4mp difference is stupid, so I'm calling bull on these specs.

The sensor has to either be:

Crazy high mp equal or higher than the D800
1Sx sensor @ 18mp

I also think the next 7D will be a $1999 full frame while the 70D will take the current 7D's role in build quality, FPS, and king of the Canon crops... should this be true, than the next 7D must have the 1Dx sensor and the 5DIII will Me_Me_Me the D800 in terms of resolution and pixels

a 7D can not be a 7D and become a FF. It would have to be a whole new line! why dont people get this?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 22, 2012, 11:27:51 PM
And from the user's standpoint how can you not say the nikon style of giving the most they can for a price instead of giving the least they can get away with for a price is not better? LOL

I am totally with you. but if the market overlooks that fact and continue buying canon equipment, why would canon change its strategy?

One good example is how d7000 was improved closer to d300 and how 60d was crippled and brought closer to rebel.

And the 7D went crash boom bang?

Why would it?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: dealaddict on February 22, 2012, 11:37:05 PM
Just to start off, I'm not a Nikon Fan Boy at all. I own a 5DC and 24-105 and 50 1.4 along with a speedlite.

BUT.... I don't see how these specs justify a 1000 dollar price increase from the 5DII to III....
The only significant upgrades are in the AF and the FPS. Technology should go down in price somewhat, not up.
Outside of video, it was widely considered that Nikon had the upper hand with the D700 vs the 5DII.
The AF on the 5DII was a joke(literally,) which makes me a little nervous about any 1st Gen Canon AF system.

One of the main reasons I chose Canon over Nikon was their more reasonable lens and body prices.
Now we have the 24-70 at 2300dollars compared to Nikons at 1850
and the 5DIII at 3500 compared to the D800 at 3000.
 
While Canon fans love Canon.... There is definitely no overall consensus that Canon is better than Nikon, in fact i'd say it's more the opposite.

I am really having a hard time seeing how the 5DIII should be priced 500 dollars more than the D800(which has a proven pro level AF system, more MP(which I actually don't want at all))

I wouldn't buy the D800 because I literally don't want 36MP at all... but the D700 is looking wayyyyy better to me than the 5DII.

I think Canon really screwed up on pricing, as I was totally prepared to see a 2800 opening price with a street price of 2500 dollars.

All I really wanted was a 5DII with a 7D AF system at around 2300 dollars.... which is something I thought very possible after 3+ years of being out...

Agree with you 100%.  Although I don't like 36Mps, I don't want to pay $500 extra to get less ... just doesn't feel right.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 22, 2012, 11:45:32 PM
So an extra $1500 for improved AF...wow

To paraphrase the MasterCard commercial: Extra card slot, $100.  Full-coverage viewfinder, $200.  Most of your images properly in focus, priceless.

Speaking for myself, I was willing to pay thousands extra for the 1D X to get top-notch AF.  If I only have to pay $1500, it's a bargain.

+1

People seem to have got themselves caught up comparing the street price of the 5DII to the Canon msrp again. The gap WONT be $1500 - the comparative street prive will be in the region of $500 very quickly - only the early buyers will get stung for $1500 which happened when the 5DII came out too.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Musouka on February 22, 2012, 11:47:18 PM
I guess with a price like that, we are more likely to get a 5DX (or whatever it's called). This way, Canon could justify the big jump in price in the same manner of G1X & G12: it's a totally new camera and not one replacing the 5DII.

What comes next is anyone's guess. Would we get a 5DIII with high MP? Would Canon still produce the 5DII and sell it at sub-$2K? I guess this all depends on how well the new model is received and how many units it sells. It will also be interesting to see how the Nikon D800(E) performs in the market... and who knows what Sony might come up with?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 22, 2012, 11:55:11 PM
Current UK price of the 5DII is in the region of 75% of mrsp - so 75% of $3500 is about $2700. So that is what we have to compare with - about $500 more than the 5DII
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Orion on February 23, 2012, 12:33:34 AM
I read a few pages but got tired of reading about pricing. . . . point taken on both sides.

I really do not see this price as being that much of a surprise. . . especially if the SAME AF that is on the 1Dx will be on the 5D mkIII . . AND with dedicated digic4! It will probably have 1 digic 5+ and not 2 . . . so far enough to understand the price increase over the 5DmkII. Also keep in mind that it will have new sensor technology over older 5D AND better video. For the rest of us, all this is a dream considering some of us (like me) were willing to dive off the deep end to get a 1Dx. . . . hell we can get 2 mkIII. . . . AND the price WILL drop, thanks to Nikonian competition, and simply regular market fluctuations and history, too.

Think about this also, that if you are a pro, and wanted to get 2 1Dx, you can now safely buy 1 1DX and 1 5DmkIII, and feel perfectly confident.

I am SOOOO happy Canon did not go up to 30MP+. . . THIS is perfect, and they may get the edge over Nikon in all the tests on ISO now AND AF.

I REALLY need a new system before end of April, so I hope I can get my hands on a 5DmkIII by then . . .
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkln on February 23, 2012, 12:36:26 AM
Quote
So, there's your first marketing gem. The D800 video is what?

has video too. uncompressed HDMI too. I hope the 5DIII has that as well as a headphone monitor both of which are glaring omissions on the 1DX. fps wise, unless canon can push 1080p60, it will be unlikely to have anything over the D800 then.

Quote
Nikon's AF system is what? Assuming the f8 feature will be sorted, the Nikon's will be trailing Canon in AF for the first time in a fair while - and you won't need a battery grip to get the extra FPS.

doubtful. same AF as the 1DX = no f/8. I wouldn't say nikon trails at all. A10 points difference isn't going to matter. plus we know how capable the AF in the nikons is and has proven itself time to time. canon still needs to prove itself so how can you tell?. At best they will be equal if canon puts it out of park. The nikon also focus down to -2EV which is an improvement over their prior gen and will really help it in low light. So lets give canon credit, but let's not deceive ourselves. They are not really surpassing nikon in any meaningful way.

Quote
How is Nikon's comparing to that? Oh it's not - it just bolts on the bottom and gives an extra few fps without and moulding for comfort? Damn, i thought you almost had me there!

I don't know if that's a killer feature the OP is talking about.  "The battery grip feels gripper" doesn't sound like a bullet point in marketing. But ok. I'll take your word for it. I've never held a D800 with a grip.

Quote
22mp FF - yeah i know, that's a bitch isn't it? Not as good as 36mp, i'll give you that. But hang on - at what cost? Maybe Canon have a more rounded offer in the wing?

Sepeculation about tomorrow doesn't sell cameras today. Nikon will have something else, Sony will have something else, Canon will have something else. who cares if you're buying today?

Let me tell you the real differentiator for canon since all you said is well, trivial. High ISO will be better on the canon because of the low MP count and FPS will be better. However one has to wonder the wisdom of that because it looks the 5DIII competes better with the 1DX than the D800 which from the start decided not to be an action/sports body. Canon however can exploit that gap in nikon's lineup....assuming nikon doesn't fill it in with a full frame D400/D800s. THAT'S the "killer" feature for canon. In other words, nikon swapped places with canon in this segment. Canon now has the speed demon. Nikon has the studio/landscape body. Both should gain market although I think the fact canon isn't the only video capable body this time (remember D700 had no video at all) will certainly level the field.

thanks, my thoughts exactly.
although all those mentioned are definite improvements, they are not more than what the d800 offers.
also, I think canon sold the 5d2 to a much wider landscape of consumers than pros, a type of consumers that are affected by marketing bogus. if the new 5d3 does not have such marketing attraction, then it'll sell less. and not because it's a poor camera, but just because, like the d700, it's "just" a good camera.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: StevenBrianSamuels on February 23, 2012, 12:38:01 AM
If only I didnt mainly do studio work  I would pick up this camera ASAP for the things I dont make money doing (ie everything else). 

Instead I have try to be happy for others and keep praying that Canon will announce a full frame megamonster with so-so ISO and dumbed-down AF.


Bah.  Im sick of trying...

 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jbwise01 on February 23, 2012, 12:46:45 AM
I think the price seems extremely high considering canon's main competitor, the Nikon d800, would have a $500 advantage, and knowing canon has always undercut Nikon on price also plays into my opinion.

The specs seem [cr3] but the price seems [cr2]
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 23, 2012, 12:50:49 AM
I am SOOOO happy Canon did not go up to 30MP+. . . THIS is perfect, and they may get the edge over Nikon in all the tests on ISO now AND AF.

Nikon folks have also had to go on the defensive about actually using the D800. Apparently the technical manual warns against hand held photography as there's an increased risk of blurred images. I'm sure wedding photographers will love that. Or they'll be forced to shoot at ISO 6400 all the time so that they can shoot indoors at 1/320 in order to prevent the bride's dress becoming a blurry mess.

I think rather than announcing a kit lens with it they will have a kit tripod...

:D

just trying to lighten the mood guys ... be gentle
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: noxious_nasties on February 23, 2012, 12:57:39 AM
Am I the only one who reads the CR Guys rumour as *around* $3500? This could mean it may be released at less or in fact more.

So even though it's a CR3 rumour it's still not on 100% with the price. So for all you people who are dreading the
price, whining and crying at least understand that it still isn't confirmed yet.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Orion on February 23, 2012, 01:04:54 AM
well, the CR3 post says the price is "around" 3500. . . it could be 3300-3700 haha. mo money mo probelms!

it's too soon to talk about price



I think rather than announcing a kit lens with it they will have a kit tripod...



. . . bean bags are much cheaper! But as for the 'blurry white wedding dress,' I would worry more about overexposure ;)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: scottsdaleriots on February 23, 2012, 01:09:14 AM
If only I didnt mainly do studio work  I would pick up this camera ASAP for the things I dont make money doing (ie everything else). 

Instead I have try to be happy for others and keep praying that Canon will announce a full frame megamonster with so-so ISO and dumbed-down AF.


Bah.  Im sick of trying...

 
i agree, i also wanted a hige MP monster at least to compete with nikon, i would've been happy with 25MP, but was hoping for something like 36MP. the 61 point AF is waaaay too much for me. i dont care about high fps, my 7d's more than enough (one of the reasons why i bought it) with its 8fps.

so with that saying: you cant please everyone. try again canon with the 5dx (assuming this will be the 5diii)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jbwise01 on February 23, 2012, 01:14:03 AM
I am SOOOO happy Canon did not go up to 30MP+. . . THIS is perfect, and they may get the edge over Nikon in all the tests on ISO now AND AF.

Nikon folks have also had to go on the defensive about actually using the D800. Apparently the technical manual warns against hand held photography as there's an increased risk of blurred images. I'm sure wedding photographers will love that. Or they'll be forced to shoot at ISO 6400 all the time so that they can shoot indoors at 1/320 in order to prevent the bride's dress becoming a blurry mess.

The tech manual doesn't warn against shooting handheld, but it does encourage shooting with a tripod to reduce motion blur due to the high mp, they are basically giving a no nonsense tip. They are actually saying that because they have such a high mp camera, you will now be able notice the imperfections in your photos even more than you used too, so the tripod encouragement should come as no surprise. I can't imagine any camera manufacturer promoting shooting handheld over tripod for any reason.

Here the tech manual for those interested

http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf (http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: D.Sim on February 23, 2012, 01:15:32 AM
I am SOOOO happy Canon did not go up to 30MP+. . . THIS is perfect, and they may get the edge over Nikon in all the tests on ISO now AND AF.

Nikon folks have also had to go on the defensive about actually using the D800. Apparently the technical manual warns against hand held photography as there's an increased risk of blurred images. I'm sure wedding photographers will love that. Or they'll be forced to shoot at ISO 6400 all the time so that they can shoot indoors at 1/320 in order to prevent the bride's dress becoming a blurry mess.

I think rather than announcing a kit lens with it they will have a kit tripod...

:D

just trying to lighten the mood guys ... be gentle

Bipod mount, like you get on longer rifles...  ;D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 23, 2012, 01:20:03 AM
I am SOOOO happy Canon did not go up to 30MP+. . . THIS is perfect, and they may get the edge over Nikon in all the tests on ISO now AND AF.

Nikon folks have also had to go on the defensive about actually using the D800. Apparently the technical manual warns against hand held photography as there's an increased risk of blurred images. I'm sure wedding photographers will love that. Or they'll be forced to shoot at ISO 6400 all the time so that they can shoot indoors at 1/320 in order to prevent the bride's dress becoming a blurry mess.

I think rather than announcing a kit lens with it they will have a kit tripod...

:D

just trying to lighten the mood guys ... be gentle

Bipod mount, like you get on longer rifles...  ;D

ROFL

you want to know something sad, the other day I was actually looking at these on ebay figuring out how i could adapt it to fit my 600mm FD lens...

even sadder... I have a concept together just got to get around to doing it
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: swordsman468 on February 23, 2012, 01:22:04 AM

This is what I don't get....

Thinking of all the forum topics about the mkiii rumored specs and expectations - If i were a canon marketing rep reading all this and reporting back to canon with the header title of - "this is what people want," then this spec list is right on target!

behold (taken from http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3249.0.html (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3249.0.html)-
High MP (30-36mp) body with price to match $3k                                         35 (15.1%)
Hi DR;  mid MP (21-24mp) body with improved AF priced $2.5-3k     95 (40.9%)
Hi DR lower MP (18-21mp) body with great ISO priced $2300 -$2500          40 (17.2%)
Mini/crippled  1Dx @ $3000                                                                           23 (9.9%)
Awin's Shove it in Nikon's face 40MP+ monster priced at $3k                       39 (16.8%

Now the specs we see today are potentially better what was asked for.  Most of the responses said such things as,  just give me a better AF and I'll be fine.  If many of the other things are addressed (better DR, ISO, Weather sealing) then even more of a bonus. And there may be a few more bells and whistles in this beast that we don't know about.  Like another poster here said, how do they market this beast?  What will they be able to say that makes people draw their eyes from the d800?  Well, the above could very well turn into one add, you asked and we responded!  There are a lot of wedding photogs out there, and the 5d series is a mainstay in that trade - so i'd guess there are a few marketing campaigns ready to go...

With all that said, the cost is ugggggggg...but, remember this ---

While the d800 is $3000 - there is also the d800e at $3299....  $3300 is very close to $3500.

Regardless of whether or not $3500 is too much to you and others, there are still enough people willing to pay $3500 that I'm sure there will be a waiting list at first.  I know there are people that really wanted one, but if you can't afford something you can't afford it.  Canon makes plenty of other cameras that cost less than that, so if $3500 is too much then people can always get something else.  I

I dont get why people expect a bargain basement price on one of the most highly-anticipated cameras of all-time.  I mean I know everyone wants everything for as cheap as possible, but if I complained about everything I wanted but can't afford I would be bitching for the rest of my life.

I see what you're saying, but my point was that, IF the rumors about the 5d2 replacement are true, then the pricing shouldn't be above the D800 by any means.  With Nikon's promised improvements on auto focusing and low-light performance, along with improvement on video quality and its medium-format-level resolution, I would expect that anything that anything Canon makes is going to evenly match the D800 AT BEST, and at worst it's going to be a mediocre improvement over the 5d2 and not on par with Nikon.

Sure it has lower pixel density and so it may have better noise performance at high ISO than the D800, but what pro shoots above 1600 anyway?  I know I don't.  What I've noticed is that "high iso performance" typically refers to the 4000-12800 range.  That's because you see a nice gentle increase in noise from 100 to 3200, and then it usually skyrockets above 4000.  Down around 100-800, though (where I imagine that most of us shoot), it's pretty evenly matched between all the DSLRs of a particular generation.  Sure the D7000 has lower noise than the 7D at 12800, but not at 100-1600.  Same can be said when you compare the D700 to the 5d2.  Anyway, just my $0.02.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: psycho5 on February 23, 2012, 01:22:51 AM
Maybe... just maybe Canon will release the 5D3 with the new 24-70 for $3,999.99!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Orion on February 23, 2012, 01:25:34 AM
I am SOOOO happy Canon did not go up to 30MP+. . . THIS is perfect, and they may get the edge over Nikon in all the tests on ISO now AND AF.

Nikon folks have also had to go on the defensive about actually using the D800. Apparently the technical manual warns against hand held photography as there's an increased risk of blurred images. I'm sure wedding photographers will love that. Or they'll be forced to shoot at ISO 6400 all the time so that they can shoot indoors at 1/320 in order to prevent the bride's dress becoming a blurry mess.

I think rather than announcing a kit lens with it they will have a kit tripod...

:D

just trying to lighten the mood guys ... be gentle

Bipod mount, like you get on longer rifles...  ;D

ROFL

you want to know something sad, the other day I was actually looking at these on ebay figuring out how i could adapt it to fit my 600mm FD lens...

even sadder... I have a concept together just got to get around to doing it

 :o oh S___! that's actually not such a bad idea

(http://img01.static-nextag.com/image/Battenfeld-Caldwell-XLA-Fixed/1/000/008/151/978/815197800.jpg)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: swordsman468 on February 23, 2012, 01:26:27 AM
Maybe... just maybe Canon will release the 5D3 with the new 24-70 for $3,999.99!

That would be killer.  Although (please nobody judge me for this) I'm anxious to see how Tamron's new 24-70 f2.8 compares to the Canon.  My guess is that it's going to be equivalent optical sharpness for $500 less.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: StevenBrianSamuels on February 23, 2012, 01:27:49 AM
Maybe... just maybe Canon will release the 5D3 with the new 24-70 for $3,999.99!

Then I WOULD buy one, sell the body, keep the lens, and wait for the megapixel monster...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 23, 2012, 01:34:01 AM
I am SOOOO happy Canon did not go up to 30MP+. . . THIS is perfect, and they may get the edge over Nikon in all the tests on ISO now AND AF.

Nikon folks have also had to go on the defensive about actually using the D800. Apparently the technical manual warns against hand held photography as there's an increased risk of blurred images. I'm sure wedding photographers will love that. Or they'll be forced to shoot at ISO 6400 all the time so that they can shoot indoors at 1/320 in order to prevent the bride's dress becoming a blurry mess.

I think rather than announcing a kit lens with it they will have a kit tripod...

:D

just trying to lighten the mood guys ... be gentle

Bipod mount, like you get on longer rifles...  ;D

ROFL

you want to know something sad, the other day I was actually looking at these on ebay figuring out how i could adapt it to fit my 600mm FD lens...

even sadder... I have a concept together just got to get around to doing it

 :o oh S___! that's actually not such a bad idea

(http://img01.static-nextag.com/image/Battenfeld-Caldwell-XLA-Fixed/1/000/008/151/978/815197800.jpg)

yeah since you like the idea
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AU-6-9-Tactical-Mount-Metal-Rifle-Bipod-Spring-Legs-20MM-Return-Rest-M700-/130599948226?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1e685d0fc2 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AU-6-9-Tactical-Mount-Metal-Rifle-Bipod-Spring-Legs-20MM-Return-Rest-M700-/130599948226?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1e685d0fc2)
that with one of these on top
http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=B2-mAS&type=0&eq=&desc=B2-mAS%3a-38mm-clamp%2c-non-threaded-hole (http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=B2-mAS&type=0&eq=&desc=B2-mAS%3a-38mm-clamp%2c-non-threaded-hole)
 nice and easy top pop on or off a quick release plate on the lens foot
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: D.Sim on February 23, 2012, 01:42:42 AM
Maybe... just maybe Canon will release the 5D3 with the new 24-70 for $3,999.99!
Wishful thinking... true to your name though.



As to the bipod mount: If you have a ballhead-ish thing on top of the bipod to allow you freedom of movement... it could work... quite well =P

especially on those monster FD lenses... was watching the old Apollo 13 again and all I could see this time were large, long, white lenses =D


p/s Wombat, you're not the only one who's thought about it...   :-[
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: V8Beast on February 23, 2012, 01:44:27 AM
The tech manual doesn't warn against shooting handheld, but it does encourage shooting with a tripod to reduce motion blur due to the high mp, they are basically giving a no nonsense tip. They are actually saying that because they have such a high mp camera, you will now be able notice the imperfections in your photos even more than you used too, so the tripod encouragement should come as no surprise. I can't imagine any camera manufacturer promoting shooting handheld over tripod for any reason.

Here the tech manual for those interested

http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf (http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf)

I was about to post something similar, but I don't have to anymore thanks to yours. How dare you post evidence (i.e. the actual manual in question) instead of spreading purposefully twisted hearsay.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: moreorless on February 23, 2012, 02:00:28 AM
I don't see that as being the case, with the 5D mk2 vs the D700 Canon offered superior resolution and video while Nikon offered superior AF, build and FPS.

I respectfully disagree. It wasn't like canon wanted to offer superior resolution, they had no other choice as they will never offer pro AF in anything other than 1D series. So canon decided to sacrifice 1Ds sensor to protect their 1D sports market.  If they did it the other way and offered pro AF, pro built, weatherseals in $2500 body, how are they gonna justify their $4500 1D?

Video was added by their marketing as a gimmick and it worked.

It seems like there offering that or something close to it in the new 5D.

Really though I don't see how this arguement disprooves my own, yes Canon likely wanted to defend the market for the 1D with the 5D mk2 but you could argue Nikon wantd to defend the D3x market with the D700 plus of course Nikon was also offering a superior ISO/FPS performance to the D700 for alot of its run with the D3s. Whether you personally like it or not video was clearly a massive feature for large numbers of people on the 5D aswell.

How does that disproove my arguement that Canon were offering more in some areas and Nikon in others?

The difference to me seems to be that in the past Nikon were the more conservative company with many releases where as Canon pushed ahead with new tech first and could offer less performance in other areas as a result. Nikon linking up with Sony for sensors while Canon stay exclusively in house seems like its evened the odds to me though and I suspect we'll see more back and fourth from both companies.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Martin on February 23, 2012, 02:05:24 AM
Reading all the things, specs and information for about last few months i really regret changing my gear about a year ago. Now i am almost decided I will switch once more, but i think that would the last one. Hate selling things via internet, especially expensive things like lens. Have no idea what pushed me for leaving Nikon, as far as I remeber it was iso 100 (noisy by the way), 135 2.0, and 35 1.4 and higher mpix. Now the market looks completely different, and i am stuck.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: D.Sim on February 23, 2012, 02:11:14 AM
Reading all the things, specs and information for about last few months i really regret changing my gear about a year ago. Now i am almost decided I will switch once more, but i think that would the last one. Hate selling things via internet, especially expensive things like lens. Have no idea what pushed me for leaving Nikon, as far as I remeber it was iso 100 (noisy by the way), 135 2.0, and 35 1.4 and higher mpix. Now the market looks completely different, and i am stuck.
Just how are you stuck?

Quote
iso 100 (noisy by the way),

Still here

Quote
135 2.0,

Still here

Quote
and 35 1.4

Still here

Quote
and higher mpix.

The only thing we've lost out to - or have we?

If you've got the funds to jump around year after year to which system has the newer update, you're gonna get pretty tired...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: moreorless on February 23, 2012, 02:29:40 AM
I am SOOOO happy Canon did not go up to 30MP+. . . THIS is perfect, and they may get the edge over Nikon in all the tests on ISO now AND AF.

Nikon folks have also had to go on the defensive about actually using the D800. Apparently the technical manual warns against hand held photography as there's an increased risk of blurred images. I'm sure wedding photographers will love that. Or they'll be forced to shoot at ISO 6400 all the time so that they can shoot indoors at 1/320 in order to prevent the bride's dress becoming a blurry mess.

The tech manual doesn't warn against shooting handheld, but it does encourage shooting with a tripod to reduce motion blur due to the high mp, they are basically giving a no nonsense tip. They are actually saying that because they have such a high mp camera, you will now be able notice the imperfections in your photos even more than you used too, so the tripod encouragement should come as no surprise. I can't imagine any camera manufacturer promoting shooting handheld over tripod for any reason.

Here the tech manual for those interested

http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf (http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf)

As problems such as this and diffraction become more of an issue though it does potentially have an impact on the market.

"Landscape" is a pretty broad market afterall, I'm sure it makes up a very sizeble part of 5D mk2 sales but is all of that market using TSE lenses and shooting from tripods most of the time? I'd guess no,  most of them are using a 24-105 IS, 70-200 f/4 or 17-40 hand held and are probabley not printing larger than A2 very often. For many of those people the 5D mk3 seems like it may actually a be a superior landscape camera(certainly a much cheaper one than buying  12-24, 24-70 and 70-200 2.8 lenses for the D800) if the ISO performance is better than the Nikon and the standard zoom lens in the normal range has IS.

As has been said the question to me seems to be how sucessful will Canon be at transmitting that message? doesnt seem like the kind of thing that can really be gotten across easily in adverts depending more of reviewers and shop reps to bring it up. I spose Canon will have the advanatge that they can include the 24-105 IS as a kit lens and still utilise alot of the new sensors resolution where as Nikon likely won't be able to with the 24-120 VR.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Mark D5 TEAM II on February 23, 2012, 02:45:41 AM
The only remaining details yet to be CR3'ed would be the FPS (jeez, Canon, no more decimal point FPS crap like 6.3/3.9/3.7/3.4 FPS on previous bodies, those "new" CIPA regulations date back to 2007, make it whole numbers like other manufacturers have done, if it's 7FPS make sure it does 7FPS on actual testing, if it's 8FPS, same thing, etc.) and native ISO range (NL has it at 100-25600, only a stop below the D1x's native range, and a stop above D4 and two stops above D800 native range).

In summary, this 5D specs get my vote as my personal "achievable dream all-around cam".  8)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: cps_user on February 23, 2012, 03:27:17 AM
Looks like a great update on paper. We'll have to wait and see what the full spec list is going to be. Like the dual slots. Maybe the compact design prevents them from having two dual CF's, but this is fine as well. I currently shoot with a 64gb sd in my 1d IV and 1Ds III and this works fine; the camera shoots raw on slot 1 and 2, where the sd is in slot 2 and smaller CF cards are in slot 1.

Glad it isn't a megapixel monster like the D800. This will really screw up some people's workflow (it would screw up mine, anyway - would need lots more cards, working off the NAS would be f*ckup up with these large raw files, etc.) and it also means Canon has probably chosen for better high iso / dr. I wouldn't be surprised if they release a high megapixel body later...or maybe even a whole new medium format line? ;)

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: SebSic on February 23, 2012, 03:55:31 AM
I read a few pages but got tired of reading about pricing. . . . point taken on both sides.

I really do not see this price as being that much of a surprise. . . especially if the SAME AF that is on the 1Dx will be on the 5D mkIII . . AND with dedicated digic4! It will probably have 1 digic 5+ and not 2 . . . so far enough to understand the price increase over the 5DmkII. Also keep in mind that it will have new sensor technology over older 5D AND better video. For the rest of us, all this is a dream considering some of us (like me) were willing to dive off the deep end to get a 1Dx. . . . hell we can get 2 mkIII. . . . AND the price WILL drop, thanks to Nikonian competition, and simply regular market fluctuations and history, too.

Think about this also, that if you are a pro, and wanted to get 2 1Dx, you can now safely buy 1 1DX and 1 5DmkIII, and feel perfectly confident.

I am SOOOO happy Canon did not go up to 30MP+. . . THIS is perfect, and they may get the edge over Nikon in all the tests on ISO now AND AF.

I REALLY need a new system before end of April, so I hope I can get my hands on a 5DmkIII by then . . .

Price of 3500$ is high in comparison with 5D and 5D II. There is no way to argue.
I would like to compare new 5D to a MERCEDES and 1DX to a FERRARI.
This is not because you will add many improvements to your new MERCEDES that you will have to pay the price of a FERRARI...
This is not because you add automatic multizone air cooled in your car, even if a great improvement, that you will have to pay the price of a FERRARI.

Or the Canon politics for 5D has changed and the target public for 5D is no more amateurs like me but only professionals ?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: nigelc on February 23, 2012, 03:56:23 AM
Absolutely nothing in this specification to interest me - I'll stick with 5D2 until i can afford to get a D800E (and lenses)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Aputure on February 23, 2012, 04:13:41 AM
You should wait for the 5DV - THAT is the one you are waiting for.

quote author=Mooose link=topic=3549.msg74582#msg74582 date=1329940224]
So.... should I preorder or wait for the 5DmkIV?
[/quote]
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: nicku on February 23, 2012, 04:14:38 AM
If the specs and price are true... then i will order a 5Dmk2 for $2200 ( where i live ) for studio work and a 7D for outdoor.

The final result will be $3650... for a 5Dmk2 and a 7D..... HMMMMMMM

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: pravkp on February 23, 2012, 04:22:00 AM
i am happy that i dint pull the trigger when there were great discounts on 5D2 (in December). No doubt 5D2 WILL remain a great camera. But then, since i had/have the choice of waiting i feel better now :)

I only hope Canon starts shipping earlier than June. Read *high hopes* - heck, Feb 27/28 is still a rumor ( albeit, a highly plausible one).



BTW, have you gotten your 1Dx yet? Oh, wait....

oh, wait.. didn't neuro mean exactly that when he finished with saying "oh, wait.." ?   :D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: maxxevv on February 23, 2012, 04:45:26 AM

Price of 3500$ is high in comparison with 5D and 5D II. There is no way to argue.
I would like to compare new 5D to a MERCEDES and 1DX to a FERRARI.
This is not because you will add many improvements to your new MERCEDES that you will have to pay the price of a FERRARI...
This is not because you add automatic multizone air cooled in your car, even if a great improvement, that you will have to pay the price of a FERRARI.

Or the Canon politics for 5D has changed and the target public for 5D is no more amateurs like me but only professionals ?

The Mercedes has been pushed up to the realm of a souped-up AMG.  ( if you do not already know what that is... you shouldn't bother talking about Ferrari's ... )   :P

If you want to say, its like the Mercedes SLK versus the Mercedes Mclaren SLR. Both are of the Mercedes SL pedigree but one costs more than 3 times the other ... Because everything that can be improved had been improved and exceeded upon. 

In the first place, you should be buying what you can afford. If you can't then you should buy a Fiat Panda instead or a regular Mercedes instead (if the penny stretches that far). Likewise for cameras.

Let market forces dictate.

If Canon priced this camera too high, and the market refuses to accept it, it will bomb ... But if Canon got it right .. it will be another best seller ... like the 5DmkII.

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Canon-F1 on February 23, 2012, 05:09:55 AM
If Canon priced this camera too high, and the market refuses to accept it, it will bomb ... But if Canon got it right .. it will be another best seller ... like the 5DmkII.

the last 18 month i knew i would buy the 5D MK3 so i put aside some money i need for an upgrade form my 5D MK2.

3000-3500$ is not cheap these days but you don´t need a 5D MK3 to make good pictures.
there are plenty of cheaper cameras in the canon lineup.

if you want a porsche you have to pay for a porsche.
and in the end.. lets face it... you can hardly use it´s full potential.   ;)

show someone A4 prints from a 550D and a 5D MK2 and 99% can not say what is what.



 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: CJRodgers on February 23, 2012, 05:17:32 AM
If Canon priced this camera too high, and the market refuses to accept it, it will bomb ... But if Canon got it right .. it will be another best seller ... like the 5DmkII.

the last 18 month i knew i would buy the 5D MK3 so i put aside some money i need for an upgrade form my 5D MK2.

3000-3500$ is not cheap these days but you don´t need a 5D MK3 to make good pictures.
there are plenty of cheaper cameras in the canon lineup.

if you want a porsche you have to pay for a porsche.
and in the end.. lets face it... you can hardly use it´s full potential.   ;)

show someone A4 prints from a 550D and a 5D MK2 and 99% can not say what is what.

 

That depends if it was shot under very low lighting :P

Good point though!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: alipaulphotography on February 23, 2012, 05:24:37 AM
If Canon priced this camera too high, and the market refuses to accept it, it will bomb ... But if Canon got it right .. it will be another best seller ... like the 5DmkII.

the last 18 month i knew i would buy the 5D MK3 so i put aside some money i need for an upgrade form my 5D MK2.

3000-3500$ is not cheap these days but you don´t need a 5D MK3 to make good pictures.
there are plenty of cheaper cameras in the canon lineup.

if you want a porsche you have to pay for a porsche.
and in the end.. lets face it... you can hardly use it´s full potential.   ;)

show someone A4 prints from a 550D and a 5D MK2 and 99% can not say what is what.



 

Unless shooting in low light with a wide aperture prime. I could definitely tell you which is which ;) But I can see what you mean.

I would far rather an expensive camera with all the features I need to do my job than a cheaper camera that is 'crippled' in some way.

From all the previous polls - everyone was completely satisfied with the performance of the 5DMKII but the autofocus was ridiculous for what was otherwise a superb camera. They have answered the customers demand and given us a hell of a lot of autofocus points.

I think it is going to be my perfect camera.

To all those 'threatening' to jump to nikon - I do wonder at what sized print you will see a difference between 22mp and 36mp?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Canon-F1 on February 23, 2012, 05:39:27 AM
Unless shooting in low light with a wide aperture prime. I could definitely tell you which is which ;) But I can see what you mean.

well others have said that and proved wrong (in magazine tests and you can read it on luminous landscape).   ;)

medium format prints vs. prints from G10:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml)


Quote
Over a two day period I invited photographers and local industry professionals to come to my print studio and look at a series of 13X19" prints from an Epson 3800 printer made on Ilford Gold Fiber Silk paper which were then hung side by side on my floor-standing print viewing box. This collection of seven people included experienced photographers, people from the commercial print industry, and other trade professionals. Between them there was at least 200 years of photographic industry shooting and printing experience.
.....

The Results

In every case no one could reliably tell the difference between 13X19" prints shot with the $40,000 Hasselblad and Phase One 39 Megapixel back, and the new $500 Canon G10. In the end no one got more than 60% right, and overall the split was about 50 / 50, with no clear differentiator. In other words, no better than chance.

In fact it was the H2 system's narrower depth of field that occasionally was the only clear give-away. Some viewers eventually figured out that the prints with the narrower depth of field were from medium format, while other photographers chose the G10 images because with its wider depth of field it created an overall impression of greater sharpness.

Needless to say there was much shaking of heads and muttering. Could this be? Could a $500 digicam equal a $40,000 medium format digital system in image quality, at least in prints up to 13X19" (Super A3)?

it´s a bit like modern art experts.
they think they now modern art ... until you show them pictures painted by monkeys....   ;D

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: moreorless on February 23, 2012, 05:41:07 AM
It's all good.... my 7D is plenty enough for now and I must say 22mp can't be the real number given the D800 specs... Why would Canon develop a sensor of this size when the 18mp 1Dx sensor would suit just fine AND lower costs??? A 4mp difference is stupid, so I'm calling bull on these specs.

The sensor has to either be:

Crazy high mp equal or higher than the D800
1Sx sensor @ 18mp


This makes very good sense. I cant either understand why they would have a 18MP and a 22MP sensor.
Perhaps they have designed them completely different with lower read noise and DR for the 22MP and only focused at high ISO for the 18MP sacrifying over all image quality?
Or perhaps they just sacrified IQ at all ISO for the 18MP to be able to get higher FPS?

Why would an 18 Megapixel sensor "just sacrifiece IQ at all ISO"? surely it would make it easier to improve image quality at higher ISO's while also allowing for faster FPS.

Each sensor seems like its tailored to its purpose for me, the 1DX likely having better ISO/FPS and the 5D3 better Resolution/Video.

I'm sure marketing is a big issue aswell, even if the 1DX sensor offered superior actual resolution to the 5D mk2 it would be difficult to sell a reduction in megapixels.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Martin on February 23, 2012, 05:45:30 AM
Quote

If you've got the funds to jump around year after year to which system has the newer update, you're gonna get pretty tired...

The thing is that i don't have such a funds, and I am tired right now, it;s not my goal to have to most up to date gear. I bought canon gear a year ago, thinking that they launch a new 5d3 soon, with really good specs (good for  me-AF and better dynamic range, better iso 100). Thought that it is the right choice.  I was not satisfied with 5d2, i hated it to be honest. I just preferred to work with my d300 with rather poor lens even I have much better or very good lens from canon. I just hated the camera, as i used to work with nikon, having no problems at all, where camera does not make it difficult to take the picture. I felt like waking up in the past with 5d2. I know, i know- photographer takes pictures, not a camera...and it's not about that.

About Mpix-I personally don't need 36, 21 was ok, around 25 would be perfect these days. But Nikon didn't have such a camera with d700,5d2 price tag. So I choose Canon for studio work. Having now a high mpix camera launched from Nikon, tell me an argument for buyin Canon, is there anything which can push a customer to buy it? OK-let's say-a customer have no camera and gear.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: ramon123 on February 23, 2012, 05:46:42 AM
If the 5D3 is going to be $500 more than the D800 then it one respect it gives the D800 an advantage. As said before Canon have always been better priced than the Nikon so hopefully this will continue. I'd say people would be happier with a 5D3 body at $3000. (which is still a nice increase from the current 5D2 model)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: CJRodgers on February 23, 2012, 05:52:17 AM
Unless shooting in low light with a wide aperture prime. I could definitely tell you which is which ;) But I can see what you mean.

well others have said that and proved wrong (in magazine tests and you can read it on luminous landscape).   ;)

medium format prints vs. prints from G10:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml)


Quote
Over a two day period I invited photographers and local industry professionals to come to my print studio and look at a series of 13X19" prints from an Epson 3800 printer made on Ilford Gold Fiber Silk paper which were then hung side by side on my floor-standing print viewing box. This collection of seven people included experienced photographers, people from the commercial print industry, and other trade professionals. Between them there was at least 200 years of photographic industry shooting and printing experience.
.....

The Results

In every case no one could reliably tell the difference between 13X19" prints shot with the $40,000 Hasselblad and Phase One 39 Megapixel back, and the new $500 Canon G10. In the end no one got more than 60% right, and overall the split was about 50 / 50, with no clear differentiator. In other words, no better than chance.

In fact it was the H2 system's narrower depth of field that occasionally was the only clear give-away. Some viewers eventually figured out that the prints with the narrower depth of field were from medium format, while other photographers chose the G10 images because with its wider depth of field it created an overall impression of greater sharpness.

Needless to say there was much shaking of heads and muttering. Could this be? Could a $500 digicam equal a $40,000 medium format digital system in image quality, at least in prints up to 13X19" (Super A3)?

it´s a bit like modern art experts.
they think they now modern art ... until you show them pictures painted by monkeys....   ;D


Sorry I couldnt see the bit about low light? Am i missing it?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: BillyBean on February 23, 2012, 05:59:20 AM
Wow - lots of posts overnight ! But there seems to a be a lot of confusion about prices. Let's try and bring some reality to this discussion:

Canon do not determine prices - we do, collectively, through our purchase decisions. If no one buys this thing (or insufficient to Canon's production line being kept busy) the price will drop. If it drops below some profit margin floor, they will cease production, and do something different.

Our willingness to purchase depends, as some have stated, on whether we have the cash or not (of course) but also on the perceived benefit compared to the alternatives: namely, swap to Nikon, or more likely stick with what we have already, and wait until something better comes along.

If the specification is not deemed by you and me to be worth $3500, the price will drop, regardless of exchange rates, cost to produce, hedging or anything else for that matter.

Contrary to popular opinion, price bears NO resemblance to the cost of producing these things. If it cost $2 to produce, they would still sell it at $3500 if they could - this is the delight of capitalism! If it costs them $3000 to produce, and Nikon forces them to sell at $2700 becuase of the D800, they have hard choices to make - sell at a loss to maintain market share whilst they think of something better, or reduce cost to produce (maybe move production to Thailand or whatever) or they choose to exit this market segment.

But to be be clear, Canon are driven by us, not the other way around. You can bet someone from Canon marketing is reviewing this site from time to time (or the Japanese equivalent), and who knows, maybe they are even changing price tickets as we speak...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Bobster on February 23, 2012, 06:04:57 AM
If the specs and price are true... then i will order a 5Dmk2 for $2200 ( where i live ) for studio work and a 7D for outdoor.

The final result will be $3650... for a 5Dmk2 and a 7D..... HMMMMMMM



To me, if the specs are correct, then this new 5D(?) is an excellent alternative to having to buy these two cameras (neither of which are exactly what I was after).
I've been holding off buying either a 5Dii or a 7D (as an upgrade from my trusty but ageing 40D) because neither offered the ideal package for my type of photography. I do shoot landscapes, but also birds, sports and other fast moving subjects.
With the 5Dii, I love the IQ, but the AF and FPS rate was going to struggle with fast moving subjects.
I really liked the specs of the 7D (with the fast moving stuff in mind), but have been put off by seeing sample shots which  (to my eyes anyway), compared with results from the 5Dii, were noisier and softer.

This new 5D(?) sounds like an excellent tool for most types of photography and just the sort of ideal mix that I've been waiting for.
It might not do 8 FPS, but nearly 7 would be plenty enough for me I think. A combination of great IQ and AF in a relatively compact body sounds very appealing to me.
I'd considered the 1Div, but besides being quite large, it has remained expensive and hasn't effectively dropped in price in the UK since July 2010.


Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Canon-F1 on February 23, 2012, 06:33:04 AM
Sorry I couldnt see the bit about low light? Am i missing it?

it´s ONE example.... that´s what your missing.

i have a magazin somewhere where they made a similiar test with higher ISO´s.
you can go to 1600-3200 ISO and see no difference in A4 prints (550D vs 5D MK2).

now if low light starts at 6400 for you that might be different.. sure.
but then only 5-6% of my images are shoot above iso 3200 so i don´t care much.

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: BXL on February 23, 2012, 06:37:21 AM
perhaps something that caters more to those who need higher resolution will be released by end of year.
The 1Dx and the 5D (III/x) are both the right cameras for the Olympics and the Euro 2012 (soccer). Later this year there is the Photokina. The right place to launch a professional high mp camera (and maybe a prosumer-grade APS-C Body).
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Gcon on February 23, 2012, 06:47:01 AM
It's all good.... my 7D is plenty enough for now and I must say 22mp can't be the real number given the D800 specs... Why would Canon develop a sensor of this size when the 18mp 1Dx sensor would suit just fine AND lower costs??? A 4mp difference is stupid, so I'm calling bull on these specs.

The sensor has to either be:

Crazy high mp equal or higher than the D800
1Sx sensor @ 18mp


This makes very good sense. I cant either understand why they would have a 18MP and a 22MP sensor.
Perhaps they have designed them completely different with lower read noise and DR for the 22MP and only focused at high ISO for the 18MP sacrifying over all image quality?
Or perhaps they just sacrified IQ at all ISO for the 18MP to be able to get higher FPS?

What's not to understand? 22MP is a full 22.2% more than 18MP - this is still a substantial difference. the 1Dx photosites effectively gets approx 22% more light. This helps with high ISO, and also there's less data to move into the CF cards. It's all about high ISO and fast frames per second.  Great for sports, news & reportage.

The 5Dx will be a champion all rounder - not as fast, not as good at high ISO, but prints can be a bit bigger, or have more "crop-ability", and a great res for video.  Great for wedding photogs, enthusiasts and also good for landscapers.

The problem with ultra-dense pixels like the D800 is that you need a lot faster shutter or better a tripod, to gain anything from those extra pixels. It's because the sensitivity to movements increases quite a lot - smaller movements can shift light falling onto one photosite into the adjacent photosites. So instead of your shutter speed rule being 1/focal length it becomes 1/2x(focal length).  The 7D also suffers from this. You need much faster shutter speeds on a 7D to get sharp images compared to a 5D and even the 5D2.

Canon would be much better suited developing a medium-format camera, than stuffing 36MP into a full-frame camera, for high-end landscape use. I guess they'll site back and gauge feedback/sales for the D800 and then react accordingly.



Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Astro on February 23, 2012, 06:48:43 AM
i have a magazin somewhere where they made a similiar test with higher ISO´s.
you can go to 1600-3200 ISO and see no difference in A4 prints (550D vs 5D MK2).

i spend some time comparing both cameras on dpreview some time ago and i think that is right.

you can pixelpeep the differences but it would be nearly impossible i think to make a decision based on A4 prints.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Astro on February 23, 2012, 06:49:43 AM
What's not to understand? 22MP is a full 22.2% more than 18MP -

in pixels but not resolution.


Quote
the 1Dx photosites effectively gets between 22% more light

but the sensor area gets the same amount of light... how much of it is "used" is more based on quantum efficiency then photosite size.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: DzPhotography on February 23, 2012, 07:05:59 AM
It's all good.... my 7D is plenty enough for now and I must say 22mp can't be the real number given the D800 specs... Why would Canon develop a sensor of this size when the 18mp 1Dx sensor would suit just fine AND lower costs??? A 4mp difference is stupid, so I'm calling bull on these specs.

The sensor has to either be:

Crazy high mp equal or higher than the D800
1Sx sensor @ 18mp


This makes very good sense. I cant either understand why they would have a 18MP and a 22MP sensor.
Perhaps they have designed them completely different with lower read noise and DR for the 22MP and only focused at high ISO for the 18MP sacrifying over all image quality?
Or perhaps they just sacrified IQ at all ISO for the 18MP to be able to get higher FPS?

Why would an 18 Megapixel sensor "just sacrifiece IQ at all ISO"? surely it would make it easier to improve image quality at higher ISO's while also allowing for faster FPS.

Each sensor seems like its tailored to its purpose for me, the 1DX likely having better ISO/FPS and the 5D3 better Resolution/Video.

I'm sure marketing is a big issue aswell, even if the 1DX sensor offered superior actual resolution to the 5D mk2 it would be difficult to sell a reduction in megapixels.

I just pointing out the strangenest with the small difference of a 18MP and 22MP sensors.
If there shall be any difference between them then they must have been designed very differently. If they have almost the same design but just different pixel size the 22MP will be the better one at all ISO, but it will be very close to a neglectable difference - So better use the same sensor for both.

One simple answer could be that the sensors are close to the same but they made a choice to sacrify IQ, of the 18MP, at all ISO to get the higher FPS. The sacrify would be very close to neglectable anyway. But then again - why not just use the same sensor for both

Another answer could be that they have a total different design. Then perhaps the 18MP could be targeted towards absolute best possible high ISO and the 22MP targeted toward hights possble DR. Then the 22MP could have a sligth edge at low ISO and the 18MP could have a slight edge at high ISO. It could also be the the oppisite but that sounds more unlikely.

Another horrible possibility is that the 18MP has a new improved design and the 22MP use the same poor technology they now have been using for many years with small upgrades for new generations. In this case the 22MP may only be a very minor improvement to the old 21MP while the 18MP is a significant improvement.
But why would they be stupid to do such a thing when it would result in very bad sales for 5D3.

No, I cant get it with the very strange small difference between the 18 and 22MP. We will have to wait and see.
I don't think 1DX will havbe worse IQ than new 5D, that would be nefast for Canon... ::)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: sanj on February 23, 2012, 07:14:13 AM
The problem with ultra-dense pixels like the D800 is that you need a lot faster shutter or better a tripod, to gain anything from those extra pixels. It's because the sensitivity to movements increases quite a lot - smaller movements can shift light falling onto one photosite into the adjacent photosites. So instead of your shutter speed rule being 1/focal length it becomes 1/2x(focal length).  The 7D also suffers from this. You need much faster shutter speeds on a 7D to get sharp images compared to a 5D and even the 5D2.
[/quote]

Is this true?? Wow I learnt something new today. Can this be substantiated with further recommended reading? Thx.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: nicku on February 23, 2012, 07:20:12 AM
perhaps something that caters more to those who need higher resolution will be released by end of year.
The 1Dx and the 5D (III/x) are both the right cameras for the Olympics and the Euro 2012 (soccer). Later this year there is the Photokina. The right place to launch a professional high mp camera (and maybe a prosumer-grade APS-C Body).


You are right regarding a high MP body......

regarding of a semi-pro APS-C body i believe launching after the Olympics and euro 2012 will be a huge mistake.

Many people (regular people) wants to take pictures at the Olympics and they want a APS-C sensor camera to have the reach. using the new 5d they will need a very expensive lens to match in reach a 7D with an 70-300mm attached.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: SebSic on February 23, 2012, 07:25:11 AM
The problem with ultra-dense pixels like the D800 is that you need a lot faster shutter or better a tripod, to gain anything from those extra pixels. It's because the sensitivity to movements increases quite a lot - smaller movements can shift light falling onto one photosite into the adjacent photosites. So instead of your shutter speed rule being 1/focal length it becomes 1/2x(focal length).  The 7D also suffers from this. You need much faster shutter speeds on a 7D to get sharp images compared to a 5D and even the 5D2.

I am a noob here, but if you multiply the number of photosites in a sensor that keeps the same dimensions, the photosite will be smaller and therefore will capture less light.
The ISO rising should be lower, and we will find back (slightly) the problem of multiplication of pixels on the sensors of compact cameras
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Steve Campbell on February 23, 2012, 07:49:06 AM
No doubt this will be a nice camera. However, at $3500 for the body, my decision to grab a 5DII and a 24-105 kit last October for $2750 brand new is seeming like a better idea all the time. I picked up a mint, used 7D around the same time for $1100. Now I have an excellent full frame, a backup in the 7D that gives me advanced AF and fast FPS AND a very nice L lens. Plus I've been shooting all this gear for 5 months and enjoying. I have two buddies who did the same and they've produced some very nice images since then instead of sitting around waiting. And waiting.....
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: traveller on February 23, 2012, 08:06:37 AM
Behold. The time has come.
I'm just chuffed to comment first on what will no doubt go on for about 20 pages now...

First comment was definitely a CR3!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: psolberg on February 23, 2012, 08:07:58 AM
Quote
The problem with ultra-dense pixels like the D800 is that you need a lot faster shutter or better a tripod, to gain anything from those extra pixels. It's because the sensitivity to movements increases quite a lot - smaller movements can shift light falling onto one photosite into the adjacent photosites. So instead of your shutter speed rule being 1/focal length it becomes 1/2x(focal length).  The 7D also suffers from this. You need much faster shutter speeds on a 7D to get sharp images compared to a 5D and even the 5D2.

Is this true?? Wow I learnt something new today. Can this be substantiated with further recommended reading? Thx.

there is some truth to it. you don't have to increase shutter speed if you shoot steady, and IS can help a lot. But ultimately ALL cameras suffer from motion blur but the higher the resolution the more you'll see your flaws in technique. The higher resolution of the Nikon means you will have to have good support and technique to maximize your quality. This doesn't meant the camera is bad in any way. It just means you have to be better and mindful of what you're shoting with. However the D800 has one key advantage. If you did get careless and introduced motion blur at the pixel level, your image will not be any worse compared to what you'd get with a lower resolution camera once you resample it to that resolution. That's the benefit of high resolution. You can downsample when you goofed and will be greatly rewarded when you don't.

Ultimately I think the pros outweight the cons. Nikon themselves made a guide for their audience about how to maximize their gears potential....

http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf (http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf)

It is a very novice guide, but it explains it from nothing. Lloyd Chambers has for guide (not free) that is superb.
http://makingsharpimages.com/ (http://makingsharpimages.com/)
 Then again every person knows here that even with the best gear, if you lack technique, you'll just get garbage.

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: NotABunny on February 23, 2012, 08:15:06 AM
Considering that the Euro price is going to be about the same but in euro, this camera better bake cookies as well.

(Even) If it it's up to my expectations, I'll have to abandon my plans to buy one of the new L lenses. A flash with a custom white balance is still on the table.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Himanshu on February 23, 2012, 08:21:26 AM
Anyone heard of 'anchor pricing' - the idea is to establish the idea of a price in someone's head (whether they can afford it or not). Then discount it. People think the vendor is doing them a huge favour. If I were Canon, I would be seeding these rumours into the market in just the way we have seen today, and everyone is "ooh, can I afford it, ouch", etc. Then announce it next week at say $3000 or $3200, and everyone thinks - "wow what a bargain!". Maybe they are right, and it is a bargain. But for me, just like with eBay purchases, the only thing that matters is 'is it worth it' not how much it has been discounted or what the exchange rate is...

That sounds really smart and would for sure catch me!



Thats make a lot of sense. Thats what companies do on a regular basis infact. Exactly what Nikon did with the D800. There were rumors that the D800 would cost around $3500, and the D800E around $4000. Then they ended up pricing the D800 at $2999.95, and it suddenly started to look like it was such a great deal for that kind of a camera.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: sublime LightWorks on February 23, 2012, 08:28:10 AM
Everyone needs to understand the difference between LIST and STREET prices. The Canon 5D Mark II when released listed for US$2799, however (rebates/sales excluded) usually streets for about US$2499 (body only). Average price range for the 5D II can be anywhere from $2000 to as high as $4000 with an extended kit, factoring in rebates and sales.

Adjusting the original 2008 list price of $2799 for inflation through now in 2012, the list price would land squarely at $3000 adjusted. So the difference is not really $1500 for better AF and an extra megapixel (and probably a vastly improved sensor like the 1D X's)...the difference when you adjust for inflation is about $500...which is FAR, FAR more reasonable if you ask me, and certainly easier to swallow than a $6800 price tag for the 1D X.
Nice....but.....

That logic does not hold for the 1Dx pricing when you analyze the 1D4 and 1DsIII that it supposedly replaced.  Recalling, the 1D4 was $5000 list and the 1Ds3 was $9000 (or possibly higher), the average between the two is $7000+.  Given your cost of inflation, the price should be even higher than the $7k average here.

It's not....it's $6800, despite a couple of years after the 1D4 and several years after the 1Ds3.


Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: K3nt on February 23, 2012, 08:36:04 AM
I know this means I'll be working a bit more overtime to fund this bad boy for my upcoming travels later in the year. *quick calculations in head----mmm, yes... 6k total* Loads of dough, but manageable, I have 10 months time.  ;)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: CowGummy on February 23, 2012, 08:36:36 AM
Behold. The time has come.
I'm just chuffed to comment first on what will no doubt go on for about 20 pages now...

First comment was definitely a CR3!

Not even 24 hours since CRGuy posted this and we're already on page 21!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tt on February 23, 2012, 08:38:59 AM
Canon seems to be meeting distributors in the UK for more info regarding this.

Might be worth checking your UK Canon supplier regarding their preorder list - and in the uk getting some info or a name on the list before Focus in March.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jbwise01 on February 23, 2012, 08:42:54 AM
It all comes down to competitiveness. If canon really thinks that people will switch to to Nikon because of price, they will most certainly drop the price. Based on what Nikon sells the d800 to distributors for, around $2690 USD, you would think that Nikon is clearly being aggressive with its initial price point on the d800 at $2999. It was mentioned earlier that canon could also be releasing some higher pricing info to stir things up a little bit. If everyone thinks the price should be $2799 then all of a sudden canon comes out with "around $3500" it will make people think less about the initial price if it comes out at $2899, everyone will start talking about how huge of a deal it is, and canon will also slap Nikon in the face with a dslr that will undercut them once again, growing their lens buying consumer base and broadening their market share.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jbwise01 on February 23, 2012, 08:55:36 AM
One other thing that has been bugging me, all those out there talking about the d800 and the high MP problems, all that can be addressed by simply shooting in RAW-M ( 5,520 x 3,680 = 20.3 MP) that would basically give you a close match to the current 5dII. I think the d800 is intriguing bc you CAN shoot up to 36 mp if you need too, but for most walk around shooting you will be able to shoot at RAW-M 20.3 mp or even RAW-S at 9 MP and get great results with the enhanced metering features and af.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: crunchy on February 23, 2012, 09:16:41 AM
One other thing that has been bugging me, all those out there talking about the d800 and the high MP problems, all that can be addressed by simply shooting in RAW-M ( 5,520 x 3,680 = 20.3 MP) that would basically give you a close match to the current 5dII. I think the d800 is intriguing bc you CAN shoot up to 36 mp if you need too, but for most walk around shooting you will be able to shoot at RAW-M 20.3 mp or even RAW-S at 9 MP and get great results with the enhanced metering features and af.
The downsized raw modes aren't making full use of the sensor, however we are all assuming that the megapickle monster will have inferior IQ. From what I've seen, the IQ and high ISO of the D800 is nothing short of staggering. NR has a comparison of high ISO between the D700 and D800.

The 5D3 has some very strong competition.

If only Nikon's lens lineup was as impressive as canon's...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: K-amps on February 23, 2012, 09:21:48 AM
The 5D was released October 2005 for $3299USD.  Adjusted for inflation that's $3828.82 today ( http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Calculators/Inflation_Rate_Calculator.asp (http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Calculators/Inflation_Rate_Calculator.asp) ) .

Kool, I remember seeing the pioneer plasma for $10k years ago. I guess we should adjust it for inflation as well.

If you could be a couple of notches less abrasive, It would be great, as it is, it is hard to fault you on some of your assertions. In light of free speech and diversification of thought on this forum, I feel you add value and balance here. Canon needs to hear both camp, the fans and the realists... to attain a balanced perspective.

+1 on the argument above, I too feel the R&D costs have been sunk already, technology costs are going down every year (not every 3.5 years  ;) ); They should be able to offe rthe 5d3 at $USD 2.2-2.4k. In fact if I were them, I'd offer it at $1900, and make money from all the EF lenses I'd be selling....
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Jackson_Bill on February 23, 2012, 09:26:05 AM
Bummer, if I didn't have so much invested in Canon lenses I'd be buying a Nikon D800 now.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Grum on February 23, 2012, 09:31:48 AM
Can't believe everyone is getting so upset over a rumoured price. This is pretty much the exact spec I would like for a camera (shooting mostly weddings but also a bit of sports, live music, landscapes, etc etc). Not sure I'll be able to justify it for a little while yet.

Hope the high ISO is spectacular though - I often find myself shooting at high ISOs or pushing RAW files quite a way.

I really wonder how many people going on about the 36MP on a D800 would ever really make much use of it. Shot any ads to go on the side of buildings lately? Yes I know it helps with cropping and then making big prints, but I've made a beautiful looking 30"x20" print off a cropped shot on my 12MP Panasonic G1.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Wahoowa on February 23, 2012, 09:52:32 AM
Everyone needs to understand the difference between LIST and STREET prices. The Canon 5D Mark II when released listed for US$2799, however (rebates/sales excluded) usually streets for about US$2499 (body only). Average price range for the 5D II can be anywhere from $2000 to as high as $4000 with an extended kit, factoring in rebates and sales.

Adjusting the original 2008 list price of $2799 for inflation through now in 2012, the list price would land squarely at $3000 adjusted. So the difference is not really $1500 for better AF and an extra megapixel (and probably a vastly improved sensor like the 1D X's)...the difference when you adjust for inflation is about $500...which is FAR, FAR more reasonable if you ask me, and certainly easier to swallow than a $6800 price tag for the 1D X.
Nice....but.....

That logic does not hold for the 1Dx pricing when you analyze the 1D4 and 1DsIII that it supposedly replaced.  Recalling, the 1D4 was $5000 list and the 1Ds3 was $9000 (or possibly higher), the average between the two is $7000+.  Given your cost of inflation, the price should be even higher than the $7k average here.

It's not....it's $6800, despite a couple of years after the 1D4 and several years after the 1Ds3.

Also, the difference between list price and street price for the 5D2 was not there until 6-12 months after it was first available. If it was, it's not significantly. If the new 5D is released at $3500, I bet you would have to wait at least 6-12 months before you can grab one for under $3000.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: K-amps on February 23, 2012, 09:53:21 AM
Am I the only one who reads the CR Guys rumour as *around* $3500? This could mean it may be released at less or in fact more.

So even though it's a CR3 rumour it's still not on 100% with the price. So for all you people who are dreading the
price, whining and crying at least understand that it still isn't confirmed yet.

Good catch... and if everyone is happy on CR with that price, it might go even higher  ;)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: dstppy on February 23, 2012, 09:54:41 AM
Am I the only one who reads the CR Guys rumour as *around* $3500? This could mean it may be released at less or in fact more.

So even though it's a CR3 rumour it's still not on 100% with the price. So for all you people who are dreading the
price, whining and crying at least understand that it still isn't confirmed yet.

Good catch... and if everyone is happy on CR with that price, it might go even higher  ;)

Yep. And if it's MORE then that's absurd to leave the sub $3k FF market and it probably means a lower end FF coming out . . .
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: JonJT on February 23, 2012, 09:55:09 AM
It is looking like there is little reason to purchase the 1Dx over this camera, unless you are really rolling in it.  Of course, this will finally depend on build quality, DR and ISO performance but, it's not looking good for the 1Dx, IMO.

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Neeneko on February 23, 2012, 09:55:48 AM
If only Nikon's lens lineup was as impressive as canon's...

Heh, I always find stuff like this ironic since the thing that keeps making me pondering jumping to Nikon is the lens availability rather then the bodies.  Because Nikon's mount is more industry standard, a lot of exotic lenses are built for that mount that Canon does not see as important to their rather narrow market.

For example, there is not a single UV lens available for EF.  Nor are there any sub f1.0 lenses.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Warninglabel on February 23, 2012, 10:08:10 AM
I'm Kinda happy about the Dual SD/CF slots (A little).  I would like to have 2 CF slots, but they don't make eye-fi CF cards, and just maybe, I will be able to get the 5D to work with an I pad 3 instantly ;-) when it comes out.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Wahoowa on February 23, 2012, 10:09:12 AM
For those of you who complain about dual CF/SD slots, would it be better for you if Canon just releases the body with only one CF slot? For me, I'm fine with it. The SD slot will be my backup slot that allows me to have some buffer time to switch CF cards.

I have long waited for this new 5D, however, I'm in the <$3000 camp. For $3500, I think I can find a decent used 5D2 for under $1700. The difference will be $1800 since the new 5D won't be available for under the released price when it first comes out. So, I can get a decent used L glass for $1800, which could be 70-200/2.8L II, 85L II, 14L II or even 24L TS-E. So, I'll stick with 5D2.

Anyway, I kinda agree that the new 5D2 won't be more than $3000, especially when D800 is $3000. Canon is always less expensive than Nikon, which is one of the reason why I switched from Nikon about 10 years ago.

Maybe, for $3500, it's the new 5D with a lens kit like 28-135 or 24-105L. Imagine how many it will sell!!! 8)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: BDD on February 23, 2012, 10:18:07 AM
While many of us rarely shoot above 1600 ISO I think it's good to have the ability to shoot in very low light situations. Where having the ability to get clean images at ISO 6400 or 12,800 would be useful. I usually stay at very low ISO (when possible) as that is where you usually get the best IQ. So, if Canon is not going to put out 2 versions of the 5D and put out a "5D3" (which I want) I hope they will also include the 1D-X's 100-51,200 native ISO spec. If they do...I'm ordering later this year. If not...bulky (w/ portrait grip) cameras here I come (D3s or D4 or 1D-X...in that order).
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 23, 2012, 10:35:00 AM
22 pages in under 24 hours... well done guys. 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: thewallbanger on February 23, 2012, 10:37:12 AM
In regards to the 5D3 price, I just wanted to remind everyone how in November Canon initially set the C300's price at $20,000 but prior to launch they reduced the MSRP to $16,000 based on competitive pressure (RED) and public outcry. 

I remember the D800 was originally rumored at $3900.  Perhaps Canon's $3500 tag was to compete with Nikon's rumored price?

$3500 certainly isn't set in stone.  There's room to move.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Musouka on February 23, 2012, 10:38:07 AM
Damned if you do (high MP), damned if you don't (low MP).  :-X

I look fondly back on those days when the DPB was in the spotlight.  8)

Maybe Canon would decide the number of MP by the number of pages CR generates in the first 24 hours :P
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 23, 2012, 10:40:47 AM
In regards to the 5D3 price, I just wanted to remind everyone how in November Canon initially set the C300's price at $20,000 but prior to launch they reduced the MSRP to $16,000 based on competitive pressure (RED) and public outcry. 

I remember the D800 was originally rumored at $3900.  Perhaps Canon's $3500 tag was to compete with Nikon's rumored price?

$3500 certainly isn't set in stone.  There's room to move.

Good point and I hope you are right. 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Arkarch on February 23, 2012, 10:44:09 AM
but they don't make eye-fi CF cards

But there are a few SD->CF adapters that work with Canon CF-card bodies.  I use one for eye-fi on a 7D.

And given that a compatible adapter is easy to find, I think that argues again for CF x 2 or CF + XQD.

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: JonJT on February 23, 2012, 10:46:37 AM
While many of us rarely shoot above 1600 ISO I think it's good to have the ability to shoot in very low light situations. Where having the ability to get clean images at ISO 6400 or 12,800 would be useful. I usually stay at very low ISO (when possible) as that is where you usually get the best IQ. So, if Canon is not going to put out 2 versions of the 5D and put out a "5D3" (which I want) I hope they will also include the 1D-X's 100-51,200 native ISO spec. If they do...I'm ordering later this year. If not...bulky (w/ portrait grip) cameras here I come (D3s or D4 or 1D-X...in that order).

Eh, I think a good deal of us do shoot above ISO1600.  I do a lot of shooting indoors, in peoples houses, public buildings and gyms.  It's hard to keep things below ISO1600.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jeremymerriam on February 23, 2012, 10:50:14 AM
I am surprised everyone is so focused on the high price increase.  Has anyone been paying attention to food and commodity prices for the past 3+ years when the Mark 2 first hit the market?  You really shouldn't be surprised.  Inflation is rising rapidly.  Our US dollars are becoming useless.

Instead of complaining with your voice, use the most powerful tool you have and don't buy it if you feel it is too high.  If consumers stop placing so much demand on the markets, the markets have to eventually come down to what is feasible to the consumer.  Too many bitch and moan, yet go out and buy the product as though their business cannot still thrive without the latest and greatest gear. 

How did all of the great masters of photography thrive before all of these "great" gadgets and doohickeys?  They adapted to their abilities and mastered them.  How many of you even still use a lightmeter?

Spend your dollars wisely and you won't need to NEED any upgrade everytime a new "latest and greatest" model or piece comes out.  Shoot, I still use PS3, LR2 and shoot with the original 5D.  The only reason i ever upgrade is if something breaks or there is something that is more efficient and can make me more $$.

Master what you have and you will never have to worry about what the dude next to you has.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: milo on February 23, 2012, 10:50:29 AM
The downsized raw modes aren't making full use of the sensor, however we are all assuming that the megapickle monster will have inferior IQ. From what I've seen, the IQ and high ISO of the D800 is nothing short of staggering. NR has a comparison of high ISO between the D700 and D800.

The 5D3 has some very strong competition.

If only Nikon's lens lineup was as impressive as canon's...

Yeah, that is my impression too of the D800.  Early impressions are that this will be an amazing camera.  We won't know for certain for a few months, though.

On another note, whenever I come onto technical forums, I get the impression that people are looking for perfect photos right out of the camera.  No crop, no editing.  If that is how you shoot, then more power to you, but I crop the majority of my photos, sometimes severely, and have spent 10 hours+ editing a single photo.  Sometimes you edit like crazy for artistic reasons, and sometimes you do it out of commercial necessity.  (The former is a lot more fun!)

While nothing beats pure IQ for most editing, the more data you have in megapixels generally translates into the best photo if you are pushing and pulling the pixels in different directions while striving to make the photo look perfect right out of the camera.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 23, 2012, 10:52:39 AM
I am surprised everyone is so focused on the high price increase.  Has anyone been paying attention to food and commodity prices for the past 3+ years when the Mark 2 first hit the market?  You really shouldn't be surprised.  Inflation is rising rapidly.  Our US dollars are becoming useless.

Instead of complaining with your voice, use the most powerful tool you have and don't buy it if you feel it is too high.  If consumers stop placing so much demand on the markets, the markets have to eventually come down to what is feasible to the consumer.  Too many bitch and moan, yet go out and buy the product as though their business cannot still thrive without the latest and greatest gear. 

How did all of the great masters of photography thrive before all of these "great" gadgets and doohickeys?  They adapted to their abilities and mastered them.  How many of you even still use a lightmeter?

Spend your dollars wisely and you won't need to NEED any upgrade everytime a new "latest and greatest" model or piece comes out.  Shoot, I still use PS3, LR2 and shoot with the original 5D.  The only reason i ever upgrade is if something breaks or there is something that is more efficient and can make me more $$.

Master what you have and you will never have to worry about what the dude next to you has.

You are one brave person...   :D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jbwise01 on February 23, 2012, 10:56:51 AM
The simple fact that We will know the exact specs. Price. And release date of the. 5dIII in less than a week is news to b be excited about
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Warninglabel on February 23, 2012, 10:59:18 AM
but they don't make eye-fi CF cards

But there are a few SD->CF adapters that work with Canon CF-card bodies.  I use one for eye-fi on a 7D.

And given that a compatible adapter is easy to find, I think that argues again for CF x 2 or CF + XQD.

Yes they make a Adapter and I have one also, but they are slower and error out a lot (buffering) when shooting sports
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 23, 2012, 11:04:50 AM
The downsized raw modes aren't making full use of the sensor, however we are all assuming that the megapickle monster will have inferior IQ. From what I've seen, the IQ and high ISO of the D800 is nothing short of staggering. NR has a comparison of high ISO between the D700 and D800.

The 5D3 has some very strong competition.

If only Nikon's lens lineup was as impressive as canon's...

Yeah, that is my impression too of the D800.  Early impressions are that this will be an amazing camera.  We won't know for certain for a few months, though.

On another note, whenever I come onto technical forums, I get the impression that people are looking for perfect photos right out of the camera.  No crop, no editing.  If that is how you shoot, then more power to you, but I crop the majority of my photos, sometimes severely, and have spent 10 hours+ editing a single photo.  Sometimes you edit like crazy for artistic reasons, and sometimes you do it out of commercial necessity.  (The former is a lot more fun!)

While nothing beats pure IQ for most editing, the more data you have in megapixels generally translates into the best photo if you are pushing and pulling the pixels in different directions while striving to make the photo look perfect right out of the camera.

Not to take anything away with the D800, it appears to be a very fine camera itself, but anyone remember when sony released it's 24MP crop camera and everyone was panicking saying it would crush the 7D and IQ and this and that... then once the camera finally produced and sent that camera out to the masses, you NEVER hear anything about that camera...  Now i'm sure the D800 is undoubtedly going to have very good IQ, shoot is density is only around the 40D's density and many still praise the 40D's image quality, but there's chance the 5d3, being only 22MP could not only have even cleaner files, but be superior on low light as well.  Plus another unknown is what Canon is adding/changing with DPP... what if they add features where you can increase resolution in the computer without losing IQ, much like fractals or such which would make everyone happy, allow for cropping, and use in larger publications but maintain superior IQ...  There are so many assumptions and comparisons drawn already about 1 camera that hasn't even been released and 1 camera that hasn't officially even been announced.  Now by all means next tuesday if/when any announcements come out, lets all compare to our hearts content. 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: raymondsiu on February 23, 2012, 11:17:31 AM
Despite all the talk on the price, what I'm hoping to see is a radio trigger embedded for Canon's new flash system, and just a better sensor than the 5D2.
Either way, with a better AF system, I'm going to seriously consider this camera. My 5D2 has served me quite well so far.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Drama79 on February 23, 2012, 11:26:44 AM
The previous 20+ pages summed up:

"$3500?! INCONCEIVABLE!" - 23%
"Blah blah look at how much I make as a photographer, check me out dooods" - 17%
wild, pointless speculation on other features - 8%
"But the Nikon blahblah is sexier/cheaper/makes me coffee" - 18%
"I want a second hand MK2 / 7D for cheap / free" - 20%

Actual interest and discussion on awesome new features - 13%

YOU'RE WELCOME, INTERNET.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: amarlez on February 23, 2012, 11:34:31 AM
22 megapixels?

I don't buy it.

Talk of a high-megapixel D800 killer aside, why would Canon ever make two different kinds of full frame sensors? They never did in the past.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Chuck Alaimo on February 23, 2012, 11:37:35 AM
not sure if this has been brought up, and don't quite have the time to read the 10 pages of replies to this thread that came after i went to sleep last night, but...

The new speedlight is supposed to be moving from IR to radio control - any chance this new 5d might have in camera radio for control of off camera flashes?  That could be quite useful!!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: nicku on February 23, 2012, 11:44:58 AM
22 megapixels?

I don't buy it.

Talk of a high-megapixel D800 killer aside, why would Canon ever make two different kinds of full frame sensors? They never did in the past.

Speaking of the past.....  nobody anticipate the release of 5D back in 2005. the company strategy can change, .radically influenced by the market.

PS 5DMK2 was the best seller upper lvl camera that canon ever had.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: pedro on February 23, 2012, 11:55:00 AM
22 megapixels?

I don't buy it.

Talk of a high-megapixel D800 killer aside, why would Canon ever make two different kinds of full frame sensors? They never did in the past.

Speaking of the past.....  nobody anticipate the release of 5D back in 2005. the company strategy can change, .radically influenced by the market.

PS 5DMK2 was the best seller upper lvl camera that canon ever had.

I am more than happy if all these specs pan out. And I wouldn't say that there is no high MP chance...As Canon officials were talking about recently...you'll never know what next spring or fall has in store for you!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: RobS on February 23, 2012, 11:56:12 AM

PS 5DMK2 was the best seller upper lvl camera that canon ever had.

now this crown i'm sure will go to nikon
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 23, 2012, 12:07:18 PM

PS 5DMK2 was the best seller upper lvl camera that canon ever had.

now this crown i'm sure will go to nikon

And i'm sure we are all waiting on baited breath to hear your explanation why
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: distant.star on February 23, 2012, 12:12:27 PM

I, for one, am waiting neither with "baited" nor bated breath.

Please do not presume...





PS 5DMK2 was the best seller upper lvl camera that canon ever had.

now this crown i'm sure will go to nikon

And i'm sure we are all waiting on baited breath to hear your explanation why
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Daniel Flather on February 23, 2012, 12:16:27 PM

PS 5DMK2 was the best seller upper lvl camera that canon ever had.

now this crown i'm sure will go to nikon

Who cares, why does it bother people so much?  I guess I best toss my Grado earphones and buy some Dr. Dre Beats.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Arkarch on February 23, 2012, 12:21:56 PM
The previous 20+ pages summed up:

"$3500?! INCONCEIVABLE!" - 23%
"Blah blah look at how much I make as a photographer, check me out dooods" - 17%
wild, pointless speculation on other features - 8%
"But the Nikon blahblah is sexier/cheaper/makes me coffee" - 18%
"I want a second hand MK2 / 7D for cheap / free" - 20%

Actual interest and discussion on awesome new features - 13%

YOU'RE WELCOME, INTERNET.

Whats the other 1% ?

Whoops, wrong forum :)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 23, 2012, 12:22:49 PM

I, for one, am waiting neither with "baited" nor bated breath.

Please do not presume...

Awww come on... where's your sense of humor... it's morning, i got a cold, and could use a good laugh from this tool.  =)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: KeithR on February 23, 2012, 12:28:19 PM
now this crown i'm sure will go to nikon

Five posts in, and this is the first where you're not actually specifically saying you're jumping ship.

Just do it, will you? Nobody cares about what you might or might not do if Canon doesn't build your own perfect personal camera.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: AJ on February 23, 2012, 12:32:00 PM
Well suppose those specs are true.  It seems to me that you get most of a 1Dx for half the price.  61 pt AF, a few more megapixels, dual card slots.  Sounds like a true pro camera to me, not just prosumer.  IMO $3500 is not a bad price at all to start with.

Seems to me that, unless you need high fps or the extra build quality, there's really no need for the 1Dx.

If I were Canon I'd put in 19 point AF to distinguish the product lines more.  But I'm not Canon.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Astro on February 23, 2012, 12:35:57 PM
now this crown i'm sure will go to nikon

5 postings and in every one of them you sound like an nikon troll...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: HTCahHTC on February 23, 2012, 12:50:50 PM
20+ pages in less than 24 hours... I smell the awesomeness of Canoners.

Anw, chill the crap out guys! Relax! $3500 is a RUMORED price, RUMORED. Even if it's this price, I'm pretty sure Canon has specs and such to justify it.
Less than a week to go to a long-awaited Canon breakthrough, so hold your horses and we'll see the announcement together with the price tag.

It's not about the money, money, money...  ::)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Drama79 on February 23, 2012, 12:55:10 PM
20+ pages in less than 24 hours... I smell the awesomeness of Canoners.

Anw, chill the crap out guys! Relax! $3500 is a RUMORED price, RUMORED. Even if it's this price, I'm pretty sure Canon has specs and such to justify it.
Less than a week to go to a long-awaited Canon breakthrough, so hold your horses and we'll see the announcement together with the price tag.

It's not about the money, money, money...  ::)

I was with you right up to that point.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: astrocrab on February 23, 2012, 12:56:21 PM
let see... 5d3 $3500 VS $1800 5d2

It's really is depend on much more detail about the 5d3...

on this message i'm stop of reading this looong 24 pages thread =)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: HTCahHTC on February 23, 2012, 01:00:27 PM
20+ pages in less than 24 hours... I smell the awesomeness of Canoners.

Anw, chill the crap out guys! Relax! $3500 is a RUMORED price, RUMORED. Even if it's this price, I'm pretty sure Canon has specs and such to justify it.
Less than a week to go to a long-awaited Canon breakthrough, so hold your horses and we'll see the announcement together with the price tag.

It's not about the money, money, money...  ::)

I was with you right up to that point.

HAHAHA I was just trollin' man. Jessie J just came to my mind at that point of time.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: stilscream on February 23, 2012, 01:16:00 PM
Did Peter Jackson release "the Hobbit" early, because there are a whole lot of trolls up in here lately.

Did anyone expect the best parts of the 1D series line for the price of a 7D? Really? Everyone was talking about how these specs weren't true because they would decrease 1dx sales... $3500 is exactly where I expected it to launch. Ask any sales person, and if a customer is comfortable at price $Z, then a good sales person wants to sell them $Z + X. There's a splurge factor on things we really really want. This sounds like a more well rounded camera than the mk ii or d800. Niche markets are great, but widespread appeal is often better. By Christmas, it will be $3100.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: DzPhotography on February 23, 2012, 01:21:29 PM
I am surprised everyone is so focused on the high price increase.  Has anyone been paying attention to food and commodity prices for the past 3+ years when the Mark 2 first hit the market?  You really shouldn't be surprised.  Inflation is rising rapidly.  Our US dollars are becoming useless.

Instead of complaining with your voice, use the most powerful tool you have and don't buy it if you feel it is too high.  If consumers stop placing so much demand on the markets, the markets have to eventually come down to what is feasible to the consumer.  Too many bitch and moan, yet go out and buy the product as though their business cannot still thrive without the latest and greatest gear. 

How did all of the great masters of photography thrive before all of these "great" gadgets and doohickeys?  They adapted to their abilities and mastered them.  How many of you even still use a lightmeter?

Spend your dollars wisely and you won't need to NEED any upgrade everytime a new "latest and greatest" model or piece comes out.  Shoot, I still use PS3, LR2 and shoot with the original 5D.  The only reason i ever upgrade is if something breaks or there is something that is more efficient and can make me more $$.

Master what you have and you will never have to worry about what the dude next to you has.

I think it's not the rumored price tag itself but the fact that Nikon has a better specification to a lower price that is the problem. If this specification is true 5D3 must be cheaper than D800.
Dude please  ::)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: psolberg on February 23, 2012, 01:23:51 PM
Can't believe everyone is getting so upset over a rumoured price. This is pretty much the exact spec I would like for a camera (shooting mostly weddings but also a bit of sports, live music, landscapes, etc etc). Not sure I'll be able to justify it for a little while yet.

Hope the high ISO is spectacular though - I often find myself shooting at high ISOs or pushing RAW files quite a way.

I really wonder how many people going on about the 36MP on a D800 would ever really make much use of it. Shot any ads to go on the side of buildings lately? Yes I know it helps with cropping and then making big prints, but I've made a beautiful looking 30"x20" print off a cropped shot on my 12MP Panasonic G1.

This reminds me of the D700 vs 5DII conversation. Everybody said 20MP was for billboards. I still don't know who actually even uses 20MP for other than cropping but I can accept studio and landscape guys want more detail because it is a good thing to have rather than to lack.

The way I see it, 22 MP is the new 12 and 36 is the new 22.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: KeithR on February 23, 2012, 01:26:32 PM
I think it's not the rumored price tag itself but the fact that Nikon has a better specification to a lower price that is the problem.

Yeah, but if you think a spec sheet is going to give you better images, you're in for a disappointment.

Words are cheap.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: KeithR on February 23, 2012, 01:33:17 PM
I still don't know who actually even uses 20MP
My pal Nigel Blake (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nigelblake) uses 1Ds Mk IIIs, primarily (and he has been very specific to me about this) because of the detail that 21 mps can capture.

The cropping advantage is a welcome addition, but the detail's the thing...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: psolberg on February 23, 2012, 01:35:17 PM
I think it's not the rumored price tag itself but the fact that Nikon has a better specification to a lower price that is the problem.

Yeah, but if you think a spec sheet is going to give you better images, you're in for a disappointment.

Words are cheap.

marketing specs sell. to deny it is futile.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: DzPhotography on February 23, 2012, 01:36:38 PM
I think it's not the rumored price tag itself but the fact that Nikon has a better specification to a lower price that is the problem.

Yeah, but if you think a spec sheet is going to give you better images, you're in for a disappointment.

Words are cheap.

marketing specs sell. to deny it is futile.
sell yes. Better pics no
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: psolberg on February 23, 2012, 01:38:21 PM
I think it's not the rumored price tag itself but the fact that Nikon has a better specification to a lower price that is the problem.

Yeah, but if you think a spec sheet is going to give you better images, you're in for a disappointment.

Words are cheap.

marketing specs sell. to deny it is futile.
sell yes. Better pics no

indeed but canon is in the business of selling cameras, not making pictures  ;D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: KeithR on February 23, 2012, 01:42:00 PM
indeed but canon is in the business of selling cameras, not making pictures  ;D
Yep - and once the spec sheets are seen for what they are (works of fantasy, in the main) the actual cameras have to stand for themselves...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: psolberg on February 23, 2012, 01:44:46 PM
indeed but canon is in the business of selling cameras, not making pictures  ;D
Yep - and once the spec sheets are seen for what they are (works of fantasy, in the main) the actual cameras have to stand for themselves...

yes off course but that's how marketing works period. it is the same in every industry. look at cars. will buying a sports cars make me a better driver? off course not. are they going to stop selling cars on specs? hell no. because they sell!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Mark D5 TEAM II on February 23, 2012, 01:49:39 PM
It's funny that the Noink fanbois like bobn2 are now bleeting about moar megapickels are betterer, but when the D700 was released and Nikon was stuck at 12MP with 9 or 10 cameras it was all about "high ISO" and "per-pixel sharpness" and 100% crops from cams with different MPs. Now that the shoe is on the other foot they are now adopting the arguments used by the 5D2 camp against the D700 camp in 2008 ;D. I get a a laugh at these fanbois posting on the other side's forum hoping they could convert the "infidels" to their one true religion.  ::) (Exhibit A: sdyue vs. bobn2 on the DPR fanboi forum).
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 23, 2012, 01:59:40 PM
The only remaining details yet to be CR3'ed would be the FPS (jeez, Canon, no more decimal point FPS crap like 6.3/3.9/3.7/3.4 FPS on previous bodies, those "new" CIPA regulations date back to 2007, make it whole numbers like other manufacturers have done, if it's 7FPS make sure it does 7FPS on actual testing, if it's 8FPS, same thing, etc.) and native ISO range (NL has it at 100-25600, only a stop below the D1x's native range, and a stop above D4 and two stops above D800 native range).

In summary, this 5D specs get my vote as my personal "achievable dream all-around cam".  8)

Why on Earth do you care if the fps are not to the whole numbers? Would you rather then crippled a body capable of say 6.7fps down to 6.0fps just to get to a whole number? Come on! WHo cares about whole numbers, what does that do for you in the field??
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: psolberg on February 23, 2012, 02:00:44 PM
It's funny that the Noink fanbois like bobn2 are now bleeting about moar megapickels are betterer, but when the D700 was released and Nikon was stuck at 12MP with 9 or 10 cameras it was all about "high ISO" and "per-pixel sharpness" and 100% crops from cams with different MPs. Now that the shoe is on the other foot they are now adopting the arguments used by the 5D2 camp against the D700 camp in 2008 ;D. I get a a laugh at these fanbois posting on the other side's forum hoping they could convert the "infidels" to their one true religion.  ::) (Exhibit A: sdyue vs. bobn2 on the DPR fanboi forum).

yup. goes to show that if all you're doing is rationalizing your purchase because of how it makes the other side look, everything you ever said will come back to hunt you when the inevitable leapfrog happens. no camera company stays on top for long. I expect the canon boys to be low light priests for the next 3 years before they switch religions again.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: bornshooter on February 23, 2012, 02:01:01 PM
It's funny that the Noink fanbois like bobn2 are now bleeting about moar megapickels are betterer, but when the D700 was released and Nikon was stuck at 12MP with 9 or 10 cameras it was all about "high ISO" and "per-pixel sharpness" and 100% crops from cams with different MPs. Now that the shoe is on the other foot they are now adopting the arguments used by the 5D2 camp against the D700 camp in 2008 ;D. I get a a laugh at these fanbois posting on the other side's forum hoping they could convert the "infidels" to their one true religion.  ::) (Exhibit A: sdyue vs. bobn2 on the DPR fanboi forum).
+1 :D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 23, 2012, 02:01:48 PM
I spose Canon will have the advanatge that they can include the 24-105 IS as a kit lens and still utilise alot of the new sensors resolution where as Nikon likely won't be able to with the 24-120 VR.

I doubt that.
And you forget that the 24-105 IS doesn't deliver sharp edge to edge performance on the 5D2, not even stopped down, at the wide end.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Otter on February 23, 2012, 02:17:46 PM
I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet as I haven't read through all 25 pages on this post.  There is a Chinese web site/camera store that is claiming the "5DX" has these specs :

Body features: full frame digital SLR
Effective pixels: 45 million
Release date: February 2012
Mode of operation: manual operation
Imaging Processor: DIGIC 5 + DIGIC 4
Focus Points: 61 points

sourced from here :  http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdetail.zol.com.cn%2Fdigital_camera%2Findex312043.shtml (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdetail.zol.com.cn%2Fdigital_camera%2Findex312043.shtml)

This looks like more of a $3500 camera then the original specs posted.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: kubelik on February 23, 2012, 02:21:10 PM
The only remaining details yet to be CR3'ed would be the FPS (jeez, Canon, no more decimal point FPS crap like 6.3/3.9/3.7/3.4 FPS on previous bodies, those "new" CIPA regulations date back to 2007, make it whole numbers like other manufacturers have done, if it's 7FPS make sure it does 7FPS on actual testing, if it's 8FPS, same thing, etc.) and native ISO range (NL has it at 100-25600, only a stop below the D1x's native range, and a stop above D4 and two stops above D800 native range).

In summary, this 5D specs get my vote as my personal "achievable dream all-around cam".  8)

Why on Earth do you care if the fps are not to the whole numbers? Would you rather then crippled a body capable of say 6.7fps down to 6.0fps just to get to a whole number? Come on! WHo cares about whole numbers, what does that do for you in the field??

it's amazing the kinds of things people can focus on to convince themselves they ought not to be happy with something.  truly, I find it astounding.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 23, 2012, 02:33:05 PM
What's not to understand? 22MP is a full 22.2% more than 18MP - this is still a substantial difference. the 1Dx photosites effectively gets approx 22% more light. This helps with high ISO, and also there's less data to move into the CF cards. It's all about high ISO and fast frames per second.  Great for sports, news & reportage.

Yeah but the total surface area is the same so there is no 22% loss overall. There might be a touch of a less you get more area taken up with transistors and stuff but it is not 22% and with more pixels you can apply more advanced NR so there may not even be any loss at in the end whatsoever.



Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 23, 2012, 02:35:49 PM
It's all good.... my 7D is plenty enough for now and I must say 22mp can't be the real number given the D800 specs... Why would Canon develop a sensor of this size when the 18mp 1Dx sensor would suit just fine AND lower costs??? A 4mp difference is stupid, so I'm calling bull on these specs.

The sensor has to either be:

Crazy high mp equal or higher than the D800
1Sx sensor @ 18mp


This makes very good sense. I cant either understand why they would have a 18MP and a 22MP sensor.
Perhaps they have designed them completely different with lower read noise and DR for the 22MP and only focused at high ISO for the 18MP sacrifying over all image quality?
Or perhaps they just sacrified IQ at all ISO for the 18MP to be able to get higher FPS?

Why would an 18 Megapixel sensor "just sacrifiece IQ at all ISO"? surely it would make it easier to improve image quality at higher ISO's while also allowing for faster FPS.

Each sensor seems like its tailored to its purpose for me, the 1DX likely having better ISO/FPS and the 5D3 better Resolution/Video.

I'm sure marketing is a big issue aswell, even if the 1DX sensor offered superior actual resolution to the 5D mk2 it would be difficult to sell a reduction in megapixels.

I just pointing out the strangenest with the small difference of a 18MP and 22MP sensors.
If there shall be any difference between them then they must have been designed very differently. If they have almost the same design but just different pixel size the 22MP will be the better one at all ISO, but it will be very close to a neglectable difference - So better use the same sensor for both.

One simple answer could be that the sensors are close to the same but they made a choice to sacrify IQ, of the 18MP, at all ISO to get the higher FPS. The sacrify would be very close to neglectable anyway. But then again - why not just use the same sensor for both

Another answer could be that they have a total different design. Then perhaps the 18MP could be targeted towards absolute best possible high ISO and the 22MP targeted toward hights possble DR. Then the 22MP could have a sligth edge at low ISO and the 18MP could have a slight edge at high ISO. It could also be the the oppisite but that sounds more unlikely.

Another horrible possibility is that the 18MP has a new improved design and the 22MP use the same poor technology they now have been using for many years with small upgrades for new generations. In this case the 22MP may only be a very minor improvement to the old 21MP while the 18MP is a significant improvement.
But why would they be stupid to do such a thing when it would result in very bad sales for 5D3.

No, I cant get it with the very strange small difference between the 18 and 22MP. We will have to wait and see.

22MP might work well for video and perhaps they just didn't quite have enough processing power to let 22MP hit 12fps and they didn't want to lose FPS face on the top end beast?? But since the 1DX can do 14fps wthout mirror that let it do 12fps at 21MP so over a 1MP loss it does all seem very odd indeed.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: skitron on February 23, 2012, 02:36:19 PM
I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet as I haven't read through all 25 pages on this post.  There is a Chinese web site/camera store that is claiming the "5DX" has these specs :

Body features: full frame digital SLR
Effective pixels: 45 million
Release date: February 2012
Mode of operation: manual operation
Imaging Processor: DIGIC 5 + DIGIC 4
Focus Points: 61 points

sourced from here :  http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdetail.zol.com.cn%2Fdigital_camera%2Findex312043.shtml (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdetail.zol.com.cn%2Fdigital_camera%2Findex312043.shtml)

This looks like more of a $3500 camera then the original specs posted.

That '5DX' page also has a link to a '5D3' page with these specs:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://detail.zol.com.cn/240/239857/param.shtml&usg=ALkJrhicf4v8DpD8Qph9OwwXjnk5xC31WA (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://detail.zol.com.cn/240/239857/param.shtml&usg=ALkJrhicf4v8DpD8Qph9OwwXjnk5xC31WA)

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mvpstudios on February 23, 2012, 02:40:46 PM
I have to agree that this seems like a giant jump in price if it is truly only going to 22mp.  I would think they would have been planning for a good comparison to the D800.  Not that I need 36 megapixels, but if the specs listed here are accurate, I don't see the huge benefit really.  Especially if it is $3500, I would definitely spend the extra cash and get the 1Dx.  I know there are more than just pixels with improvements to the 5D II, but I'm curious to see if I can be convinced that it is worth that much money.  I'm going from a 7D, so moving to full frame should be a big difference for me as it is.

Now, I'm really curious to see the ISO difference, that could be the kicker.  I was just editing some photos that I took in low light with the 7D and the noise is bugging.  I guess it makes sense to see the whole picture (no pun intended) and decide then.

Looking at another post just written, I have to agree, my bet is that the 22mp number is not accurate.  Hopefully we do get to find out next week!  I'm also curious as to when I can actually get the camera should I try to upgrade, the 1Dx seems to be taking forever with no end in sight.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 23, 2012, 02:41:01 PM
For those of you who complain about dual CF/SD slots, would it be better for you if Canon just releases the body with only one CF slot? For me, I'm fine with it. The SD slot will be my backup slot that allows me to have some buffer time to switch CF cards.

I have long waited for this new 5D, however, I'm in the <$3000 camp. For $3500, I think I can find a decent used 5D2 for under $1700. The difference will be $1800 since the new 5D won't be available for under the released price when it first comes out. So, I can get a decent used L glass for $1800, which could be 70-200/2.8L II, 85L II, 14L II or even 24L TS-E. So, I'll stick with 5D2.

Anyway, I kinda agree that the new 5D2 won't be more than $3000, especially when D800 is $3000. Canon is always less expensive than Nikon, which is one of the reason why I switched from Nikon about 10 years ago.

Maybe, for $3500, it's the new 5D with a lens kit like 28-135 or 24-105L. Imagine how many it will sell!!! 8)

It does seem odd that it would be $500 more when the specs between the two appear to basically avg out to the same overall (and if the Nikon ends up with better DR and the canon doesn't have 7fps or they crippled the 1DX AF then the Nikon would clearly look better and the $500 increase would really, really be tough to swallow and if two or three of those at once then just wow).
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Mark D5 TEAM II on February 23, 2012, 02:42:50 PM
The only remaining details yet to be CR3'ed would be the FPS (jeez, Canon, no more decimal point FPS crap like 6.3/3.9/3.7/3.4 FPS on previous bodies, those "new" CIPA regulations date back to 2007, make it whole numbers like other manufacturers have done, if it's 7FPS make sure it does 7FPS on actual testing, if it's 8FPS, same thing, etc.) and native ISO range (NL has it at 100-25600, only a stop below the D1x's native range, and a stop above D4 and two stops above D800 native range).

In summary, this 5D specs get my vote as my personal "achievable dream all-around cam".  8)

Why on Earth do you care if the fps are not to the whole numbers? Would you rather then crippled a body capable of say 6.7fps down to 6.0fps just to get to a whole number? Come on! WHo cares about whole numbers, what does that do for you in the field??

Because it's annoying to read that the 5D2 can do 3.9FPS instead of 4FPS, when all they have to do is make sure that the FPS timing and testing methodology conforms to CIPA 2007 standards. This is the reason why the 40D's 6.5FPS was actually tested to be just 6.3FPS, and why the 50D was subsequently spec'ed at 6.3FPS. It's as annoying as Canon Rebels "improving" their FPS from 3FPS to a staggering 3.5, then back down to 3.4, and then back up to 3.7. :P

My point is if a model makes 6.9FPS, it would look better if it does 7FPS, a nice whole number for the marketing spec sheets. (And you seem to favor it as well since you used 7FPS above instead of "6.912762322345281014" FPS as in the CR3 rumor :P). Get it now? Relax, chill out.  ::)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 23, 2012, 02:44:33 PM
The only remaining details yet to be CR3'ed would be the FPS (jeez, Canon, no more decimal point FPS crap like 6.3/3.9/3.7/3.4 FPS on previous bodies, those "new" CIPA regulations date back to 2007, make it whole numbers like other manufacturers have done, if it's 7FPS make sure it does 7FPS on actual testing, if it's 8FPS, same thing, etc.) and native ISO range (NL has it at 100-25600, only a stop below the D1x's native range, and a stop above D4 and two stops above D800 native range).

In summary, this 5D specs get my vote as my personal "achievable dream all-around cam".  8)

Why on Earth do you care if the fps are not to the whole numbers? Would you rather then crippled a body capable of say 6.7fps down to 6.0fps just to get to a whole number? Come on! WHo cares about whole numbers, what does that do for you in the field??

it's amazing the kinds of things people can focus on to convince themselves they ought not to be happy with something.  truly, I find it astounding.

Pure and simple... it's pure psychological nonsense... just like stores pricing things like $4.99 instead of $5, whole numbers jump out at people more than fractions... most people cant process fractional numbers as quickly so they tend to round down in their mind rather than round up... so in their minds eye 7 FPS will always be more significant than 6.9 FPS even though it's only .1 FPS off... it's a mind trick. 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: moreorless on February 23, 2012, 02:48:28 PM
I spose Canon will have the advanatge that they can include the 24-105 IS as a kit lens and still utilise alot of the new sensors resolution where as Nikon likely won't be able to with the 24-120 VR.

I doubt that.
And you forget that the 24-105 IS doesn't deliver sharp edge to edge performance on the 5D2, not even stopped down, at the wide end.

It doesnt deliver perfect performance I agree but it delivers what many users would consider acceptable performance where as the 24-120 seems likely to be very underwhelming on the D800 indeed.

Even on FF I'd guess theres a very significant number of users who never go beyond the kit lens.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Smith on February 23, 2012, 02:48:37 PM
Whenever a high MP camera comes out you always see the same comments. "If you don't print big you don't need more megapixels." People who don't do commercial product or fashion work don't get the fact that it's not about printing big but the ability to edit in post.

I also do a lot of Photoshop editing and cropping and higher megapixel cameras are very helpful for this. Sometimes it's just not possible to get something perfect in the camera because you just don't know how your client is going to want to use the picture. I intentionally leave a bit of room so the composition can be slightly changed and copy added. Low megapixel cameras are bad for editing because the picture will turn to mush after a little bit of work. For example, if you try to lightly edit a model's skin it will easily turn to plastic with no texture. With 36MP you can zoom in and dodge and burn a specific flaw without messing up the skin texture.

The downsized raw modes aren't making full use of the sensor, however we are all assuming that the megapickle monster will have inferior IQ. From what I've seen, the IQ and high ISO of the D800 is nothing short of staggering. NR has a comparison of high ISO between the D700 and D800.

The 5D3 has some very strong competition.

If only Nikon's lens lineup was as impressive as canon's...

Yeah, that is my impression too of the D800.  Early impressions are that this will be an amazing camera.  We won't know for certain for a few months, though.

On another note, whenever I come onto technical forums, I get the impression that people are looking for perfect photos right out of the camera.  No crop, no editing.  If that is how you shoot, then more power to you, but I crop the majority of my photos, sometimes severely, and have spent 10 hours+ editing a single photo.  Sometimes you edit like crazy for artistic reasons, and sometimes you do it out of commercial necessity.  (The former is a lot more fun!)

While nothing beats pure IQ for most editing, the more data you have in megapixels generally translates into the best photo if you are pushing and pulling the pixels in different directions while striving to make the photo look perfect right out of the camera.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Mark D5 TEAM II on February 23, 2012, 02:49:33 PM
Exactly my point. 7FPS would look better than "6.987654321" FPS on the brochures.  :P Jeez, lighten up.  ::)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 23, 2012, 02:49:41 PM
Well suppose those specs are true.  It seems to me that you get most of a 1Dx for half the price.  61 pt AF, a few more megapixels, dual card slots.  Sounds like a true pro camera to me, not just prosumer.  IMO $3500 is not a bad price at all to start with.

Seems to me that, unless you need high fps or the extra build quality, there's really no need for the 1Dx.

If I were Canon I'd put in 19 point AF to distinguish the product lines more.  But I'm not Canon.

I'm glad Canon may no longer be you. 19pt crippled 7D AF and 22MP would start looking silly at $500 more than the D800 no? And then imagine how much sillier to one, two, three years from now (it's not like they will introduce the 5D4 next spring).
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 23, 2012, 02:50:52 PM

It's not about the money, money, money...  ::)

Hah I think you missed the point of that song.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jalbfb on February 23, 2012, 02:51:57 PM
I must have clicked onto CR yesterday just after this was posted because there were no responses.  I came back to the site a few minutes later and there were 7 pages already.  I have read just about every post and like most I was initially taken aback and, quite frankly, a little disappointed by the rumored price.  However, I was one of the ones voting for better AF and better AF Canon has appeared to have delivered. I personally will wait for the official release info and then for actual practical use with the new 5D before taking the plunge and getting one and selling my 5dII. I wonder what added little features will be discovered that will make me feel less guilty at buying one:  electronic leveler like the 7D?, in camera wireless control for off camera speedlights? etc.  I remain hopeful that the initial price will be lower and that somewhere soon along the way a canon discount will crop up.  Regardless, I will be getting one of these puppies at some point before the end of the year unless it proves to be a real dog. A price lower than the rumored one will push me to get one sooner. FWIW.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 23, 2012, 02:54:07 PM
sell yes. Better pics no

If you are shooting a distant bird actually it would make for better pics. And what if it ends up with 2 stops better DR? Hopefully it won't, but if it does, then in some cases it could lead to better pics and more flexibility to shoot things that you might otherwise avoid. etc.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Mark D5 TEAM II on February 23, 2012, 02:54:43 PM
Those getting insecure because of the D800 would just have to repeat the mantra of the Noink fanbois from 2008: "High ISO is the new megapixels", 'High ISO is the new megapixels"... "12MP 22MP is more than enough for everyone" "12MP 22MP is enough for everyone"...  :P

Or, they can repeat what DPR said in the 50D review: "At this point, the megapixel race should already stop (at 15MP, because obviously their favorite brand was at that time stuck at 12MP :P).
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 23, 2012, 02:55:35 PM
It's funny that the Noink fanbois like bobn2 are now bleeting about moar megapickels are betterer, but when the D700 was released and Nikon was stuck at 12MP with 9 or 10 cameras it was all about "high ISO" and "per-pixel sharpness" and 100% crops from cams with different MPs. Now that the shoe is on the other foot they are now adopting the arguments used by the 5D2 camp against the D700 camp in 2008 ;D. I get a a laugh at these fanbois posting on the other side's forum hoping they could convert the "infidels" to their one true religion.  ::) (Exhibit A: sdyue vs. bobn2 on the DPR fanboi forum).

You seemed to have missed the minor point where those such as bob2n had never been going on about high ISO being better due to low MP and per-pixel sharpness....
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 23, 2012, 02:57:43 PM
I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet as I haven't read through all 25 pages on this post.  There is a Chinese web site/camera store that is claiming the "5DX" has these specs :

Body features: full frame digital SLR
Effective pixels: 45 million
Release date: February 2012
Mode of operation: manual operation
Imaging Processor: DIGIC 5 + DIGIC 4
Focus Points: 61 points

sourced from here :  http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdetail.zol.com.cn%2Fdigital_camera%2Findex312043.shtml (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdetail.zol.com.cn%2Fdigital_camera%2Findex312043.shtml)

This looks like more of a $3500 camera then the original specs posted.

That '5DX' page also has a link to a '5D3' page with these specs:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://detail.zol.com.cn/240/239857/param.shtml&usg=ALkJrhicf4v8DpD8Qph9OwwXjnk5xC31WA (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://detail.zol.com.cn/240/239857/param.shtml&usg=ALkJrhicf4v8DpD8Qph9OwwXjnk5xC31WA)

That is the old fake rumor from over a year ago again.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tt on February 23, 2012, 03:06:57 PM
UK folks - can you do me a favour and see if your supplier has had a chat with Canon yet? I've heard Canon's been speaking to folks in the run up to Focus about more information. Seems if you ask about a preorder list/any more info, they might have a bit more to say.
Just a feeling ;)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: DJL329 on February 23, 2012, 03:47:35 PM
Wow, lots of comments about the CF/SD cards.  Most of the 1D/1Ds bodies had this configuration (the earliest models only had a single CF).  The 1DX is actually the first Canon dSLR to have dual CF, but some folks expect the 5D3/X to have the same configuration, instead of the one passed down from the 1D/1Ds?   :o

I remember posts last year from 1D/1Ds shooters who were upset that they were going to lose the SD card slot with the 1DX!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: sjprg on February 23, 2012, 04:14:14 PM
With 22MP its useless to me. I want the 45MP, 1FPS is fine.
A Nikon I will go, A Nikon Iwill go, Hi HO the merrier I go.
The D800E is on order.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 23, 2012, 04:22:06 PM
With 22MP its useless to me. I want the 45MP, 1FPS is fine.
A Nikon I will go, A Nikon Iwill go, Hi HO the merrier I go.
The D800E is on order.

Well good luck and goodbye  ;D ;D ;D  Hear that guys?  he's leaving woo hoo!
Title: Ridiculous...
Post by: clicstudio on February 23, 2012, 04:31:14 PM
Why would Canon do this? Years of wait for 1 more MP and a 0.2" bigger screen and an AF system that should have come years ago...
The same disappointment I got with the iPhone 4s. Everybody has these gorgeous 4" smartphones and Apple choose to make us wait yet another year for something really good.
Who will pay $3500 for a small body when u can get a D800
For $2000?
I wouldn't. I'm waiting for my 1D IV replacement with a 1D X but this 5D is a joke.
How about a real studio camera? 36MP are great. Who cares about sensor pixel size or noise when u got 50% more data to play with... Bigger is better, more is more.
What about a Professional Canon 3D with a lot of MP and studio focusing system for $3000?
Canon loses this time. sorry
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: SandyP on February 23, 2012, 04:45:58 PM
I'm so tired of hearing people flip flopping and getting up on their soap box and announcing "Canon loses" or "I'm going to Nikon". How does it REALLY matter?

Hell, the most moving and memorable images burned into the minds of most people on our planet, let's say "Top 100 photos of all time", are most likely ALL film. Taken decades (or longer) ago, on cameras that are laughable compared to ANYTHING we have now. In terms of features, abilities and technology, even usability and reliability. What does that say, truly, about GOOD photography that MATTERS?

Are you a photographer, or are you a tech head who actually doesn't REQUIRE any of this because it the D800, 1DX, D4, or digital Hassleblad won't make your images truly any better.

???



I for one, based on these rumored specs, are OK with the 5D Mark III. Assuming they're even real specs. I make a living off of photography, I do various types. Mostly portraits, some fashion and beauty, and documentary work (along with weddings in the summer months). I also print my work, large, for galleries and clients, on various mediums such as photo paper, canvas and fine art materials (even metal and wood once).

We don't know the DR, we don't know the ISO, and we don't a ton of other stuff, let alone the ACTUAL specs (again, this is a rumor, a CR3'd rumor, but still a rumor).

It's just so hilarious to sit here for days, have a coffee, read through some rumors, see what other photographers are saying about them... you get a few different types of people really. The most comical is the person, on any forum really, who types up a bunch of garbage about switching systems, or being so fed up with the changes, or lack of changes. OK, fine. How in the world is any other camera going to make your photos better? How is getting the 5D3, or NOT, going to make you a better photographer? The D800E, D800, 1Dx, D4? Answer: it won't help.

The reason why, on twitter and other bigger forums, you don't see the seasoned pros or working photographers complaining about much, is because they understand this simple notion. You get caught up in all the gear talk, and all the #s, and it truly, at the end of the day, doesn't mean much. The reason we get new cameras, and want to "upgrade" is because we can, and because sometimes it gives us new tools, and it's fun to have new things that we truly love, like cameras and lenses. But we never should lie to ourselves and say or believe that owning the 5D3, or a PhaseOne, or D4 is going to make us a better photographer.

No one is going to look back on their career, put up a gallery show and say "right here, this is when you can tell I got the 5D3, or switched to the D800, it shows in my work". Blah blah blah.


I don't even believe most of what I read when you have someone boasting about changing sides or "needing" something MORE, MORE MORE! Always MORE!

No one is ever truly happy, right? I say.... I can't wait for what Canon, Nikon or anyone else brings us. If we can properly use any of these tools, then let's go for it, but let's not pretend it means much more.

My 5D2 has been through hell, I bought it the month it was on the market. It's so banged up and wonderfully used. My back up is an old 40D, which I never use, and has had some problems before. I don't trust it. Getting a 5D3, or the 1Dx makes sense for me in a lot of ways, but I'm not going to pretend it is going to make me a better photographer, or make my work more accessible to clients or galleries.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: RedEye on February 23, 2012, 04:48:58 PM
ok ok ok already :)  Let's let good old boy canon release their product so a real conclusion can be drawn.  I know there is sovereignty of the consumer, but let's not become plutocratic.  Lets all just pretend that we're Lecia users and love the company no matter what happens or how infrequent the release is.  ;)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 23, 2012, 04:53:48 PM
ok ok ok already :)  Let's let good old boy canon release their product so a real conclusion can be drawn.  I know there is sovereignty of the consumer, but let's not become plutocratic.  Lets all just pretend that we're Lecia users and love the company no matter what happens or how infrequent the release is.  ;)

+10000000000
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Arkarch on February 23, 2012, 04:56:29 PM
I'm so tired of hearing people flip flopping and getting up on their soap box and announcing "Canon loses" or "I'm going to Nikon". How does it REALLY matter?

We are all, in a way, investors in Canon mostly through our lens and flash collections.

So yeah, there is a bit of passion in the purchase.

And maybe a bit of Ford vs Chevy in our blood.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: SandyP on February 23, 2012, 04:59:32 PM
Riiiiight. I agree with that, but I still don't see the connection between all that and being a better photographer? I have a long way to go, I need to learn a lot, and do a lot before I would ever dream of saying I'm a professional, I make my living (it ain't the BEST living either), but it's my passion. I don't think that we should lump the two camps together, investors because we own and put into it, and actual quality and craftsmanship of photography.

I'm very interested in any new gear, I want to see what the future holds. But all this puffy chested postured talk about the other side, switching or being angry about it all, seems so silly and childish.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Arkarch on February 23, 2012, 05:16:42 PM
Riiiiight. I agree with that, but I still don't see the connection between all that and being a better photographer?

Neither a Canon nor a Nikon is going to make you a better photographer.

We all reach limits.  And we dream of the next camera that will surpass those limits in the features we want/need.  When the next big thing doesnt meet those expectations, we get grumpy.

Oh and btw, generally I agree with your sentiment.


(edit, got rid of the unintended lecture)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: fotoray on February 23, 2012, 05:18:06 PM
I'm so tired of hearing people flip flopping and getting up on their soap box and announcing "Canon loses" or "I'm going to Nikon". How does it REALLY matter?

Hell, the most moving and memorable images burned into the minds of most people on our planet, let's say "Top 100 photos of all time", are most likely ALL film. Taken decades (or longer) ago, on cameras that are laughable compared to ANYTHING we have now. In terms of features, abilities and technology, even usability and reliability. What does that say, truly, about GOOD photography that MATTERS?

Are you a photographer, or are you a tech head who actually doesn't REQUIRE any of this because it the D800, 1DX, D4, or digital Hassleblad won't make your images truly any better.

???



I for one, based on these rumored specs, are OK with the 5D Mark III. Assuming they're even real specs. I make a living off of photography, I do various types. Mostly portraits, some fashion and beauty, and documentary work (along with weddings in the summer months). I also print my work, large, for galleries and clients, on various mediums such as photo paper, canvas and fine art materials (even metal and wood once).

We don't know the DR, we don't know the ISO, and we don't a ton of other stuff, let alone the ACTUAL specs (again, this is a rumor, a CR3'd rumor, but still a rumor).

It's just so hilarious to sit here for days, have a coffee, read through some rumors, see what other photographers are saying about them... you get a few different types of people really. The most comical is the person, on any forum really, who types up a bunch of garbage about switching systems, or being so fed up with the changes, or lack of changes. OK, fine. How in the world is any other camera going to make your photos better? How is getting the 5D3, or NOT, going to make you a better photographer? The D800E, D800, 1Dx, D4? Answer: it won't help.

The reason why, on twitter and other bigger forums, you don't see the seasoned pros or working photographers complaining about much, is because they understand this simple notion. You get caught up in all the gear talk, and all the #s, and it truly, at the end of the day, doesn't mean much. The reason we get new cameras, and want to "upgrade" is because we can, and because sometimes it gives us new tools, and it's fun to have new things that we truly love, like cameras and lenses. But we never should lie to ourselves and say or believe that owning the 5D3, or a PhaseOne, or D4 is going to make us a better photographer.

No one is going to look back on their career, put up a gallery show and say "right here, this is when you can tell I got the 5D3, or switched to the D800, it shows in my work". Blah blah blah.


I don't even believe most of what I read when you have someone boasting about changing sides or "needing" something MORE, MORE MORE! Always MORE!

No one is ever truly happy, right? I say.... I can't wait for what Canon, Nikon or anyone else brings us. If we can properly use any of these tools, then let's go for it, but let's not pretend it means much more.

My 5D2 has been through hell, I bought it the month it was on the market. It's so banged up and wonderfully used. My back up is an old 40D, which I never use, and has had some problems before. I don't trust it. Getting a 5D3, or the 1Dx makes sense for me in a lot of ways, but I'm not going to pretend it is going to make me a better photographer, or make my work more accessible to clients or galleries.


Beautifully said.   Some really great pictures can be taken with a box camera - remember those?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Palseb on February 23, 2012, 05:21:28 PM
Canadian Canon Vendors had a meeting today (Feb 23).  The new 5D will be available in stores at the end of March 2012  in Canada at $3,800 with a lense (do not know which one).
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Daniel Flather on February 23, 2012, 05:23:23 PM
.......I'm so tired of hearing people flip flopping and getting up on their soap box and announcing "Canon loses" or "I'm going to Nikon". How does it REALLY matter?

Hell, the most moving and memorable images burned into the minds of most people on our planet, let's say "Top 100 photos of all time", are most likely ALL film. Taken decades (or longer) ago, on cameras that are laughable compared to ANYTHING we have now. In terms of features, abilities and technology, even usability and reliability. What does that say, truly, about GO.....

Yeah, what s/he said  +1 ;D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 23, 2012, 05:34:13 PM
I'm so tired of hearing people flip flopping and getting up on their soap box and announcing "Canon loses" or "I'm going to Nikon". How does it REALLY matter?

Hell, the most moving and memorable images burned into the minds of most people on our planet, let's say "Top 100 photos of all time", are most likely ALL film. Taken decades (or longer) ago, on cameras that are laughable compared to ANYTHING we have now. In terms of features, abilities and technology, even usability and reliability. What does that say, truly, about GOOD photography that MATTERS?

Are you a photographer, or are you a tech head who actually doesn't REQUIRE any of this because it the D800, 1DX, D4, or digital Hassleblad won't make your images truly any better.

???



I for one, based on these rumored specs, are OK with the 5D Mark III. Assuming they're even real specs. I make a living off of photography, I do various types. Mostly portraits, some fashion and beauty, and documentary work (along with weddings in the summer months). I also print my work, large, for galleries and clients, on various mediums such as photo paper, canvas and fine art materials (even metal and wood once).

We don't know the DR, we don't know the ISO, and we don't a ton of other stuff, let alone the ACTUAL specs (again, this is a rumor, a CR3'd rumor, but still a rumor).

It's just so hilarious to sit here for days, have a coffee, read through some rumors, see what other photographers are saying about them... you get a few different types of people really. The most comical is the person, on any forum really, who types up a bunch of garbage about switching systems, or being so fed up with the changes, or lack of changes. OK, fine. How in the world is any other camera going to make your photos better? How is getting the 5D3, or NOT, going to make you a better photographer? The D800E, D800, 1Dx, D4? Answer: it won't help.

The reason why, on twitter and other bigger forums, you don't see the seasoned pros or working photographers complaining about much, is because they understand this simple notion. You get caught up in all the gear talk, and all the #s, and it truly, at the end of the day, doesn't mean much. The reason we get new cameras, and want to "upgrade" is because we can, and because sometimes it gives us new tools, and it's fun to have new things that we truly love, like cameras and lenses. But we never should lie to ourselves and say or believe that owning the 5D3, or a PhaseOne, or D4 is going to make us a better photographer.

No one is going to look back on their career, put up a gallery show and say "right here, this is when you can tell I got the 5D3, or switched to the D800, it shows in my work". Blah blah blah.


I don't even believe most of what I read when you have someone boasting about changing sides or "needing" something MORE, MORE MORE! Always MORE!

No one is ever truly happy, right? I say.... I can't wait for what Canon, Nikon or anyone else brings us. If we can properly use any of these tools, then let's go for it, but let's not pretend it means much more.

My 5D2 has been through hell, I bought it the month it was on the market. It's so banged up and wonderfully used. My back up is an old 40D, which I never use, and has had some problems before. I don't trust it. Getting a 5D3, or the 1Dx makes sense for me in a lot of ways, but I'm not going to pretend it is going to make me a better photographer, or make my work more accessible to clients or galleries.

Great first post, Its interesting to see how many people registered for the sole reason of complaining and telling us all that they are going to change to blah blah blah

All over a Rumour, A CR3 rumour mind you but still.

I think apple should make the next iphone 50MP just for shits and giggles. Now can you imagine all the twisted panties THAT would cause.

I keep think back to that post about the hassleblad awards and how god awefull most of that stuff was. It really goes to show, having a Hassleblad doesn't give the operator a sense of good taste or the ability to take good photos. Hell I rate most of the photos posted here by people shooting with rebels as better than most of the shots that made finalists or winners in that competition.

Make no mistake there will be plety of horrible pictures taken with D800s and with 5Dmk3s D4s and 1Dx and no doubt there will also be some spectacular shots taken with all of those too.

Relax take a tranquiliser or six and wait for the announcement and some actual information / sample images or the ability to actually test it out.

For me I'll probably pre-order 1 of the new 5D as I really dislike the 5D2 AF that much but i'll keep a 5D2 for use with my Manual focus lenses as it still and always will produce excellent images. And continue to keep an eye on used 1Dmk4 prices and if a good deal comes up for one of them i'll jump on it.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: SandyP on February 23, 2012, 05:43:59 PM
Haha yes. :)

For the right type of person, a new tool gives them new ways to work their already existing magic (or not so magic) photography skills. But at the same time, no camera in the world is going to make your photos better. People seem to get so hung up on the wrong aspects of photography. The parts that do not matter.

I'm excited about the Canon 5D Mark III, it may never be "perfect", but what does that really matter.

Anyways...... oh, and for the record, I'm a guy. Ha. Sandy is short/nick name for someone who has Alexander as a name. Which I do. I live in Canada, but my family goes back to Scotland for it's roots. So that's why. :)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 23, 2012, 05:45:11 PM
Canadian Canon Vendors had a meeting today (Feb 23).  The new 5D will be available in stores at the end of March 2012  in Canada at $3,800 with a lense (do not know which one).

How credible is your source?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Daniel Flather on February 23, 2012, 05:49:41 PM
Sandy is short/nick name for someone who has Alexander as a name.

Ah, did not know that.  I'm in Canada too, hi.   8)

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tt on February 23, 2012, 06:08:28 PM
Canadian Canon Vendors had a meeting today (Feb 23).  The new 5D will be available in stores at the end of March 2012  in Canada at $3,800 with a lense (do not know which one).

How credible is your source?
From what I've heard, Canon UK were having meetings today, so other countries having meetings fits. Not sure about UK availability beyond that it's hopefully going to be known by next weekend.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jalbfb on February 23, 2012, 06:10:37 PM
I'm so tired of hearing people flip flopping and getting up on their soap box and announcing "Canon loses" or "I'm going to Nikon". How does it REALLY matter?

Hell, the most moving and memorable images burned into the minds of most people on our planet, let's say "Top 100 photos of all time", are most likely ALL film. Taken decades (or longer) ago, on cameras that are laughable compared to ANYTHING we have now. In terms of features, abilities and technology, even usability and reliability. What does that say, truly, about GOOD photography that MATTERS?

Are you a photographer, or are you a tech head who actually doesn't REQUIRE any of this because it the D800, 1DX, D4, or digital Hassleblad won't make your images truly any better.

???



I for one, based on these rumored specs, are OK with the 5D Mark III. Assuming they're even real specs. I make a living off of photography, I do various types. Mostly portraits, some fashion and beauty, and documentary work (along with weddings in the summer months). I also print my work, large, for galleries and clients, on various mediums such as photo paper, canvas and fine art materials (even metal and wood once).

We don't know the DR, we don't know the ISO, and we don't a ton of other stuff, let alone the ACTUAL specs (again, this is a rumor, a CR3'd rumor, but still a rumor).

It's just so hilarious to sit here for days, have a coffee, read through some rumors, see what other photographers are saying about them... you get a few different types of people really. The most comical is the person, on any forum really, who types up a bunch of garbage about switching systems, or being so fed up with the changes, or lack of changes. OK, fine. How in the world is any other camera going to make your photos better? How is getting the 5D3, or NOT, going to make you a better photographer? The D800E, D800, 1Dx, D4? Answer: it won't help.

The reason why, on twitter and other bigger forums, you don't see the seasoned pros or working photographers complaining about much, is because they understand this simple notion. You get caught up in all the gear talk, and all the #s, and it truly, at the end of the day, doesn't mean much. The reason we get new cameras, and want to "upgrade" is because we can, and because sometimes it gives us new tools, and it's fun to have new things that we truly love, like cameras and lenses. But we never should lie to ourselves and say or believe that owning the 5D3, or a PhaseOne, or D4 is going to make us a better photographer.

No one is going to look back on their career, put up a gallery show and say "right here, this is when you can tell I got the 5D3, or switched to the D800, it shows in my work". Blah blah blah.


I don't even believe most of what I read when you have someone boasting about changing sides or "needing" something MORE, MORE MORE! Always MORE!

No one is ever truly happy, right? I say.... I can't wait for what Canon, Nikon or anyone else brings us. If we can properly use any of these tools, then let's go for it, but let's not pretend it means much more.

My 5D2 has been through hell, I bought it the month it was on the market. It's so banged up and wonderfully used. My back up is an old 40D, which I never use, and has had some problems before. I don't trust it. Getting a 5D3, or the 1Dx makes sense for me in a lot of ways, but I'm not going to pretend it is going to make me a better photographer, or make my work more accessible to clients or galleries.

Another vote for "beautifully said." It's hard, but the reality is we'll just have to wait 4 more days and we'll see the real specs, then wait some more while those who have been road testing this model will give us their impressions.  Ultimately, I'll be waiting for the actual release of the camera and the early reviews and then decide.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: SandyP on February 23, 2012, 06:24:03 PM
Canada, yes! :) Yay. Haha.

I'm exciting, I know that I want a new camera to accompany my 5D Mark 2, and I want to make the "best" possible choice I can. The 1Dx seems great, but the 5D Mark 3 might be the best choice, depending on what it can really do. No rumors, no he said she said. Just facts. I'm excited either way!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: CowGummy on February 23, 2012, 06:31:33 PM
I'm so tired of hearing people flip flopping and getting up on their soap box and announcing "Canon loses" or "I'm going to Nikon". How does it REALLY matter?

Hell, the most moving and memorable images burned into the minds of most people on our planet, let's say "Top 100 photos of all time", are most likely ALL film. Taken decades (or longer) ago, on cameras that are laughable compared to ANYTHING we have now. In terms of features, abilities and technology, even usability and reliability. What does that say, truly, about GOOD photography that MATTERS?

Are you a photographer, or are you a tech head who actually doesn't REQUIRE any of this because it the D800, 1DX, D4, or digital Hassleblad won't make your images truly any better.

???



I for one, based on these rumored specs, are OK with the 5D Mark III. Assuming they're even real specs. I make a living off of photography, I do various types. Mostly portraits, some fashion and beauty, and documentary work (along with weddings in the summer months). I also print my work, large, for galleries and clients, on various mediums such as photo paper, canvas and fine art materials (even metal and wood once).

We don't know the DR, we don't know the ISO, and we don't a ton of other stuff, let alone the ACTUAL specs (again, this is a rumor, a CR3'd rumor, but still a rumor).

It's just so hilarious to sit here for days, have a coffee, read through some rumors, see what other photographers are saying about them... you get a few different types of people really. The most comical is the person, on any forum really, who types up a bunch of garbage about switching systems, or being so fed up with the changes, or lack of changes. OK, fine. How in the world is any other camera going to make your photos better? How is getting the 5D3, or NOT, going to make you a better photographer? The D800E, D800, 1Dx, D4? Answer: it won't help.

The reason why, on twitter and other bigger forums, you don't see the seasoned pros or working photographers complaining about much, is because they understand this simple notion. You get caught up in all the gear talk, and all the #s, and it truly, at the end of the day, doesn't mean much. The reason we get new cameras, and want to "upgrade" is because we can, and because sometimes it gives us new tools, and it's fun to have new things that we truly love, like cameras and lenses. But we never should lie to ourselves and say or believe that owning the 5D3, or a PhaseOne, or D4 is going to make us a better photographer.

No one is going to look back on their career, put up a gallery show and say "right here, this is when you can tell I got the 5D3, or switched to the D800, it shows in my work". Blah blah blah.


I don't even believe most of what I read when you have someone boasting about changing sides or "needing" something MORE, MORE MORE! Always MORE!

No one is ever truly happy, right? I say.... I can't wait for what Canon, Nikon or anyone else brings us. If we can properly use any of these tools, then let's go for it, but let's not pretend it means much more.

My 5D2 has been through hell, I bought it the month it was on the market. It's so banged up and wonderfully used. My back up is an old 40D, which I never use, and has had some problems before. I don't trust it. Getting a 5D3, or the 1Dx makes sense for me in a lot of ways, but I'm not going to pretend it is going to make me a better photographer, or make my work more accessible to clients or galleries.

Awesome post! I think you may be my new hero on this forum.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Daniel Flather on February 23, 2012, 06:32:01 PM
Canada, yes! :) Yay. Haha.

I'm exciting, I know that I want a new camera to accompany my 5D Mark 2, and I want to make the "best" possible choice I can. The 1Dx seems great, but the 5D Mark 3 might be the best choice, depending on what it can really do. No rumors, no he said she said. Just facts. I'm excited either way!

Me too, I'm on a 50D so the 5d3 will be an exciting change for me.  Add to this I've been waiting for this camera for a long time.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Grum on February 23, 2012, 06:33:29 PM
Another +1 for Sandy P's post. Some of the hysterical whining in his thread is amazing I bet most of those people spend a lot more time arguing about specs (that arent even confirmed) than they do taking pictures. I also bet none of them ever have a real need for 36MP, they just don't want to feel inadequate.

I think the 5D III will be too expensive for me to justify for a little while yet but otherwise it seems perfect to me.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 23, 2012, 06:55:28 PM
Another +1 for Sandy P's post. Some of the hysterical whining in his thread is amazing I bet most of those people spend a lot more time arguing about specs (that arent even confirmed) than they do taking pictures. I also bet none of them ever have a real need for 36MP, they just don't want to feel inadequate.

I think the 5D III will be too expensive for me to justify for a little while yet but otherwise it seems perfect to me.

I have spent all day at a Dickens themed location working out a series of shots for all their photo requirements

Looks like all the flashes wil be used - plus I have a reason to  get the 8-15 fisheye. I find it amusing to see people threatening to mov to the dark side or NEX 7 because of some invisible improvement in IQ. The largest poster I am required to produce is A2 with a bunch of A4 posters and some website pics.

If an upgrade to the 5D3 could help with the flash placement I would buy one tomorrow
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: pachelbelscanon5d on February 23, 2012, 06:56:36 PM
I'm also really excited for this camera.  I've recently started making a (full-time) living doing photography and my old 5dmii (which I love) could use a "big" brother. 

I agree - OF COURSE - that 78% of photography is the user, but sometimes exciting technology can really help.  Specifically, great AF and great low light performance.  If this camera can replicate the new 1DX AF (or even come close, really), and take usable pictures in the ISO 6400 range I'll be thrilled.  Great video and fast fps would be awesome too (but I can live with just incremental mark ii improvements here). 

I will say however, that this price tag is surely not accurate.  It's like buying a Honda Civic for $19,000.  It's just not gonna happen (I know that the 5diii is more than just the "honda civic of cameras", but bare with me...). I would be willing to take wagers with people that this camera is closer to $3000 than $3500 when it hits.  I'll say $3199, tops.   UNLESS it has something really tricky up it's sleeve.   It's not that $3500 is too much to pay for a camera of this caliber, it's just that the D800 is competing DIRECTLY against it (in marketing at least).  I honestly think the big "trick" will be that the video is going to be incredible.  Like it or not, Canon moves a lot of product based on it's indy film market.  If this thing had Magic Lantern controls and better-than-5dmii performance out of the box it would destroy the competition.  Nikon hasn't excited filmmakers since the D90 way back in the day, and that was a flop as soon as Canon released their slew of 1080p DSLRs.   

Just my thoughts.  I know many people that are waiting for this camera to start filming paid video work (indy films, weddings, commercials).  Either way, I'm sure this camera is going to be awesome.  I can't wait for those "official" Canon release pictures.  Remember the 7D focusing brochure?  That was great.   
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Gravitom on February 23, 2012, 06:57:27 PM
Stuff

I think this is a silly post.  Of course all of that is true but this is a site for people who obsess about RUMORED camera specs.  Obviously we are concerned with the technical aspects of new cameras.  Some of us are great photographers and some of us are terrible ones with more camera then they need.  Being concerned about getting the features you want at a good price doesn't make you one or the other.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: fotoray on February 23, 2012, 07:14:16 PM
Stuff

I think this is a silly post.  Of course all of that is true but this is a site for people who obsess about RUMORED camera specs.  Obviously we are concerned with the technical aspects of new cameras.  Some of us are great photographers and some of us are terrible ones with more camera then they need.  Being concerned about getting the features you want at a good price doesn't make you one or the other.

Silly? Really?   It's at 28 pages now.  Is great interest silly?  Really.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 23, 2012, 07:20:19 PM
I'm so tired of hearing people flip flopping and getting up on their soap box and announcing "Canon loses" or "I'm going to Nikon". How does it REALLY matter?

Hell, the most moving and memorable images burned into the minds of most people on our planet, let's say "Top 100 photos of all time", are most likely ALL film. Taken decades (or longer) ago, on cameras that are laughable compared to ANYTHING we have now. In terms of features, abilities and technology, even usability and reliability. What does that say, truly, about GOOD photography that MATTERS?

Are you a photographer, or are you a tech head who actually doesn't REQUIRE any of this because it the D800, 1DX, D4, or digital Hassleblad won't make your images truly any better.

???



I for one, based on these rumored specs, are OK with the 5D Mark III. Assuming they're even real specs. I make a living off of photography, I do various types. Mostly portraits, some fashion and beauty, and documentary work (along with weddings in the summer months). I also print my work, large, for galleries and clients, on various mediums such as photo paper, canvas and fine art materials (even metal and wood once).

We don't know the DR, we don't know the ISO, and we don't a ton of other stuff, let alone the ACTUAL specs (again, this is a rumor, a CR3'd rumor, but still a rumor).

It's just so hilarious to sit here for days, have a coffee, read through some rumors, see what other photographers are saying about them... you get a few different types of people really. The most comical is the person, on any forum really, who types up a bunch of garbage about switching systems, or being so fed up with the changes, or lack of changes. OK, fine. How in the world is any other camera going to make your photos better? How is getting the 5D3, or NOT, going to make you a better photographer? The D800E, D800, 1Dx, D4? Answer: it won't help.

The reason why, on twitter and other bigger forums, you don't see the seasoned pros or working photographers complaining about much, is because they understand this simple notion. You get caught up in all the gear talk, and all the #s, and it truly, at the end of the day, doesn't mean much. The reason we get new cameras, and want to "upgrade" is because we can, and because sometimes it gives us new tools, and it's fun to have new things that we truly love, like cameras and lenses. But we never should lie to ourselves and say or believe that owning the 5D3, or a PhaseOne, or D4 is going to make us a better photographer.

No one is going to look back on their career, put up a gallery show and say "right here, this is when you can tell I got the 5D3, or switched to the D800, it shows in my work". Blah blah blah.


I don't even believe most of what I read when you have someone boasting about changing sides or "needing" something MORE, MORE MORE! Always MORE!

No one is ever truly happy, right? I say.... I can't wait for what Canon, Nikon or anyone else brings us. If we can properly use any of these tools, then let's go for it, but let's not pretend it means much more.

My 5D2 has been through hell, I bought it the month it was on the market. It's so banged up and wonderfully used. My back up is an old 40D, which I never use, and has had some problems before. I don't trust it. Getting a 5D3, or the 1Dx makes sense for me in a lot of ways, but I'm not going to pretend it is going to make me a better photographer, or make my work more accessible to clients or galleries.

1. it's just having fun speculating and chatting specs, just like people go on about the new car, graphics card, etc.

2. it can actually make some difference, if you have 5 stops of DR you simply can't tackle certain types of photographic opportunities than if you have 20 stops of DR, of course you can still make stunning photos and maybe better than many someone with a 20 stop camera will make, but you are restricted and then again maybe the other guy gets a cooler shot too

3. many pros actually do participate in spec chatting, especially sports/pjs where fps and af differences can make a considerable real world difference each and every day

4. if you are going to spend $3500 nothing wrong with trying to get as much as you can for your money and the sorts of things you want and care about
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 23, 2012, 07:28:37 PM
Stuff

I think this is a silly post.  Of course all of that is true but this is a site for people who obsess about RUMORED camera specs.  Obviously we are concerned with the technical aspects of new cameras.  Some of us are great photographers and some of us are terrible ones with more camera then they need.  Being concerned about getting the features you want at a good price doesn't make you one or the other.

Exactly, some of the biggest pixel peepers and spec mongers actually have some pretty amazing galleries and from the looks of them have traveled the world and gotten out to actually go take some photos more than a little while some of the biggest just go out and shoot if you even know how crowd have galleries consisting of a couple of shots of their dog and cat in the backyard taken with weird camera settings. Of course the reverse can be true too.

So enough with making wild assumptions.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: GL on February 23, 2012, 08:00:41 PM
I find the final quality of a photo has as much to do with your post-processing skills as it does with the camera itself. The camera's job is to get me the best-possible raw material to work with in post. So I look for improved (and responsive, accurate and flexible) AF, less noise at high ISO, and reduced shutter lag (the 5D2 is a tortoise in this regard). Everything else is gravy. As a working pro, dual-card slots are also long overdue (touch wood I've never lost an image due to CF failure, but the day will come...). On paper this cam looks to be the bomb. And to add to the "Canon vs Nikon" debate that always seems to accompany these rumours, changing systems (to Nikon) might get me a few extra points in the current generation of bodies, but I lose those points in Nikon's inferior lenses (what Canon has done with the new 24-70 and 70-200 in terms of sharpness is remarkable). So on balance Canon has always been my choice, and likely always will.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 23, 2012, 08:09:27 PM
I find the final quality of a photo has as much to do with your post-processing skills as it does with the camera itself. The camera's job is to get me the best-possible raw material to work with in post. So I look for improved (and responsive, accurate and flexible) AF, less noise at high ISO, and reduced shutter lag (the 5D2 is a tortoise in this regard). Everything else is gravy. As a working pro, dual-card slots are also long overdue (touch wood I've never lost an image due to CF failure, but the day will come...). On paper this cam looks to be the bomb. And to add to the "Canon vs Nikon" debate that always seems to accompany these rumours, changing systems (to Nikon) might get me a few extra points in the current generation of bodies, but I lose those points in Nikon's inferior lenses (what Canon has done with the new 24-70 and 70-200 in terms of sharpness is remarkable). So on balance Canon has always been my choice, and likely always will.

Too right there - the zooms, 24-70, 70-200, 200-400 cover a wide range with very sharp lens
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wtlloyd on February 23, 2012, 08:54:41 PM
SandyP, you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I feel your pain. But not in a place where you might think.

I'm sure it feels good to pontificate about how real photographers don't hang out on gear forums, they are out Getting The Shot.

But this is a place dedicated to RUMORS about NEW GEAR. Not about technique or composition. Or discussions about how all the good photos were already taken years ago by the Legends of Photography.

And there is an imminent announcement of a eagerly anticipated camera barreling down the pike.

What did you expect to read about coming to this site at this time?

Really, you flatter yourself that only you can see folly in the discussions going on. All the members here are having fun discussing some possibilities.

That is all.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: maxxevv on February 23, 2012, 09:04:39 PM
Relax guys .... just go do some real photo taking with your current cameras over the weekend. Just that few more days...

By the time you're done post-processing your RAW files ... we'll all get the official details !   ;D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: dealaddict on February 23, 2012, 09:05:38 PM
SandyP, you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I feel your pain. But not in a place where you might think.

I'm sure it feels good to pontificate about how real photographers don't hang out on gear forums, they are out Getting The Shot.

But this is a place dedicated to RUMORS about NEW GEAR. Not about technique or composition. Or discussions about how all the good photos were already taken years ago by the Legends of Photography.

And there is an imminent announcement of a eagerly anticipated camera barreling down the pike.

What did you expect to read about coming to this site at this time?

Really, you flatter yourself that only you can see folly in the discussions going on. All the members here are having fun discussing some possibilities.

That is all.

Agreed.  There are different types of people enjoy taking photos.  What's wrong to be a tech head and speculating and chatting.  In fact, I absolutely agree this is the place for those type of people.  And it doesn't mean those people (including myself) is stupid, or not a "photographer".  And it doesn't mean those "non teach head" more superior.

For instance, I don't like gambling, and I think it is a wasting time, I won't walk into a casino and saying all of you should go home and stop wasting time here ...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: yngdiego on February 23, 2012, 09:27:51 PM
Just to start off, I'm not a Nikon Fan Boy at all. I own a 5DC and 24-105 and 50 1.4 along with a speedlite.

BUT.... I don't see how these specs justify a 1000 dollar price increase from the 5DII to III....
The only significant upgrades are in the AF and the FPS. Technology should go down in price somewhat, not up.
Outside of video, it was widely considered that Nikon had the upper hand with the D700 vs the 5DII.
The AF on the 5DII was a joke(literally,) which makes me a little nervous about any 1st Gen Canon AF system.

One of the main reasons I chose Canon over Nikon was their more reasonable lens and body prices.
Now we have the 24-70 at 2300dollars compared to Nikons at 1850
and the 5DIII at 3500 compared to the D800 at 3000.
 
While Canon fans love Canon.... There is definitely no overall consensus that Canon is better than Nikon, in fact i'd say it's more the opposite.

I am really having a hard time seeing how the 5DIII should be priced 500 dollars more than the D800(which has a proven pro level AF system, more MP(which I actually don't want at all))

I wouldn't buy the D800 because I literally don't want 36MP at all... but the D700 is looking wayyyyy better to me than the 5DII.

I think Canon really screwed up on pricing, as I was totally prepared to see a 2800 opening price with a street price of 2500 dollars.

All I really wanted was a 5DII with a 7D AF system at around 2300 dollars.... which is something I thought very possible after 3+ years of being out...

I'm now too wondering about which brand I should upgrade to. For the record I started out with an Elan IIe, then EOS-3, 5D, and a 5D MK II. I've been very happy with Canon. I sold my 5D MK II and 24-70/2.8L this week, in anticipation of the MK III and the 24-70MKII. However, the 5D MKIII price and minimal features for landscape/travel use really make me question the direction Canon is going. The D800 looks very attractive, but I'm not up to snuff on Nikkor lenses and how they stack up. One of my former co-workers is a big Nikon fan and if I switch I'll never hear the end of it. LOL I only have three Canon lenses left and a 580EX, so it would not be a strech to sell those as well and flip brands. This will not be an easy decision, but I'll certainly wait for a bit after the MK III hits the streets to see some comparisons with the D800 before I make up my mind.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Mark1 on February 23, 2012, 10:04:33 PM
I've just upgraded from a 5D mark1 to a 5D mark2. I'm loving my new camera and paired with the 50mm F1.4 I'm getting beautifully crisp pictures with sRAW1 files at ISO800, much better than my Mark1. It's a joy and the very little videoing I have done has already got me hooked. The texture of the video is just divine!

My point in relation to this post however is that just because I have bought a new camera that will probably last me 5 years or so I am still addicted to Canon Rumors! The forum here is the friendliest of any of the photography forums which from my limited observations can get quite nasty very quickly.

Gear headed obsessive geekiness is an instinctive male trait and nothing to be ashamed of. You can spend all day taking pictures and all night processing your raw files and still have time in your life for Canon Rumors!

On another subject, I think Nikon have shown all their cards with the D4, D800, D800E but no way have Canon. Whatever they announce next week you can be sure it wont be a direct competitor to the D800. That one is still in the pipeline. Anyone who jumps ship to the D800 based on what Canon announce next week will be kicking themselves in 6 months time when Canon announce their own 36MP full frame beast!

If you're invested in Canon lenses now you'd be a raving nutter to jump to Nikon. Just my 2 cents worth ;D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 23, 2012, 10:08:41 PM
I think most regulars here are commited gear heads It's kind of like therapy similar to AA
"Hi my name is wombat and i'm a gear addict..." :P
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: D.Sim on February 23, 2012, 10:09:44 PM
I've just upgraded from a 5D mark1 to a 5D mark2. I'm loving my new camera and paired with the 50mm F1.4 I'm getting beautifully crisp pictures with sRAW1 files at ISO800, much better than my Mark1. It's a joy and the very little videoing I have done has already got me hooked. The texture of the video is just divine!

My point in relation to this post however is that just because I have bought a new camera that will probably last me 5 years or so I am still addicted to Canon Rumors! The forum here is the friendliest of any of the photography forums which from my limited observations can get quite nasty very quickly.

ANY forum, to be honest... not just photography ones..

Quote
Gear headed obsessive geekiness is an instinctive male trait and nothing to be ashamed of. You can spend all day taking pictures and all night processing your raw files and still have time in your life for Canon Rumors!
Assuming of course, CR is entirely made up of men.  ;D

Quote
On another subject, I think Nikon have shown all their cards with the D4, D800, D800E but no way have Canon. Whatever they announce next week you can be sure it wont be a direct competitor to the D800. That one is still in the pipeline. Anyone who jumps ship to the D800 based on what Canon announce next week will be kicking themselves in 6 months time when Canon announce their own 36MP full frame beast!

If you're invested in Canon lenses now you'd be a raving nutter to jump to Nikon. Just my 2 cents worth ;D

Totally totally agree on this.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: MrBeavis5 on February 23, 2012, 10:15:00 PM
For the first time in my life, I wish the weekend was over and that it was Monday already!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Arkarch on February 23, 2012, 10:35:13 PM
Too right there - the zooms, 24-70, 70-200, 200-400 cover a wide range with very sharp lens

Thats where I really got to applaud Canon. 

When the cameras come, the optics will be there!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Sharper100 on February 23, 2012, 10:59:17 PM
First off, I think JerryFish (Reply #91) did an excellent job studying the MSRP cost difference between the 1Ds/1DX and the 5D series, for the last 3 generations. That Table is very informative and telling. See below.

I would make the following points, regarding the rumored MSRP:

1.   Keep in mind that through the upgrades of each of its models (including FF series), Canon has done its best to improve various shortcomings of the previous generation. Even though upgrades do cost money and expense, note that such improvements (whether the Pixel Count, ISO, IQ, AF, Processor, FPS, etc.) did NOT result in overly noticeable MSRP increases. (by the way, that is almost true amongst other manufacturers as well, including Nikon). By improving the previous model’s features, and maintaining (or dropping) the MSRP for the newer model, Canon has done very well in holding or improving its position in the market share.

2.   The Yen vs. USD argument is not going to dictate the MSRP. Otherwise, based on …….. chart, Canon would be asking for $10,145 for 1DX, which won’t fly!

3.   In its head-to-head competition with Nikon’s D800, Canon cannot reasonably ask for a higher MSRP than D800’s $3,000.  That is the not-to-exceed price ceiling. In fact, with D800’s long list of expanded features (36MP, Advanced AF, 16-bit Image Processing & Excellent IQ and Video, Built-In Pop-Up Flash, Automated HDR Mode, In-Camera Audio Monitoring & Headphone Jack, Active D-Lighting, USB 3.0 Connector, etc.), it would be wise for Canon to price its new 5D iii/X conservatively at a lower MSRP than D800’s $3,000. An MSRP of around $2,700, similar to 5D II (upon its introduction) would be reasonable.

Based on the above points, if Canon wishes to enjoy the same success and popularity that it had for its 5D line through the past generations, it should price its new 5D III/X at around $2,700.  Otherwise, D800 will win this battle. Simple as that!

In fact, the more I think about the [CR3] report for a MSRP of “Around” $3,500, the more it seems to me that perhaps that price is for a KIT Package, which includes the EF 24-105/f4 L IS II lens.  Now, That would make sense  ;)

Let’s hope that Canon does the right thing next week……….for everyone’s sake.  They have about 4 more days to think hard and offer another successful product, at the correct price.

Good Luck everyone.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 23, 2012, 11:03:18 PM
Too right there - the zooms, 24-70, 70-200, 200-400 cover a wide range with very sharp lens

Thats where I really got to applaud Canon. 

When the cameras come, the optics will be there!

Canon 200-400 is $5000 (five-THOUSAND)  :o more than the Nikon version though yikes.... and yeah it has a built-in TC which is a very cool plus, but $5000 for a built-in TC  :o.


That said Nikon is entirely lacking nice stuff such as the 70-200 f/4 IS, 70-300 IS L, MPE65, etc. etc.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 23, 2012, 11:06:58 PM
In fact, the more I think about the [CR3] report for a MSRP of “Around” $3,500, the more it seems to me that perhaps that price is for a KIT Package, which includes the EF 24-105/f4 L IS II lens.  Now, That would make sense  ;)



On another forum someone claims that there was just a meeting held in Canada on the 5D3 and it was suggested to be $3800 Canadian WITH lens. The didn't get the person to tell them with what lens though. So maybe it is $3500 with 24-105L. (I sure hope they bundle 24-70 II though and that the fps are 7 and they AF is very near 1DX, VERY near and not some garbage performing 61pt mess or even just merely 7D performing 61pt whatever).
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: fengshui on February 23, 2012, 11:43:49 PM
In fact, the more I think about the [CR3] report for a MSRP of “Around” $3,500, the more it seems to me that perhaps that price is for a KIT Package, which includes the EF 24-105/f4 L IS II lens.  Now, That would make sense  ;)



On another forum someone claims that there was just a meeting held in Canada on the 5D3 and it was suggested to be $3800 Canadian WITH lens. The didn't get the person to tell them with what lens though. So maybe it is $3500 with 24-105L. (I sure hope they bundle 24-70 II though and that the fps are 7 and they AF is very near 1DX, VERY near and not some garbage performing 61pt mess or even just merely 7D performing 61pt whatever).

Link for the other forum?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: rcha101 on February 23, 2012, 11:59:40 PM
The $3500 makes sense in terms of features compared to the rest of canon's lineup.

But it makes absolutely no sense compared to D800.

Normally you should expect to get after 3 years of development something better for the same price... With the logic, that the price is okay with extra features EVERYTHING will getting more and more expensive..

My 3 year old televion... 1400,- EUR ... With this logic a new television with tons of more features (LAN, 200hz, 3D) should cost much more... But no! ist less expensive... Same with my car... Paied 15k for it a few years ago.. Now you get a improved model for the same price...

I really cant go with this argument, that after 3 years of development a bit better iso, dual cf/sd and finally a good AF justify the bigger price

Yes, but the price is a RUMOR.

Canon have a habit of announcing a high RRP however the cameras will sell for a lot less within a month or two. Don't take this at face value!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 24, 2012, 01:00:45 AM
Too right there - the zooms, 24-70, 70-200, 200-400 cover a wide range with very sharp lens

Thats where I really got to applaud Canon. 

When the cameras come, the optics will be there!

Canon 200-400 is $5000 (five-THOUSAND)  :o more than the Nikon version though yikes.... and yeah it has a built-in TC which is a very cool plus, but $5000 for a built-in TC  :o.


That said Nikon is entirely lacking nice stuff such as the 70-200 f/4 IS, 70-300 IS L, MPE65, etc. etc.

We are looking at the top of the range here - for those that really need best IQ.

Canon do more budget level alternatives - which is the strength of the Canon brand - there is something for everyone.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canonic on February 24, 2012, 01:16:44 AM
Northlight Images has posted a new rumor(info?!):
"Although the AF in the 5D2 replacement is based on the same sensor layout as the 1D X, it is a 'simplified' version.
The dual card setup of the camera is specifically aimed at video users
Just as with the 1DX, clean HDMI is possible."


What could be "simplified version"?
And clean HDMI?

See link:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d3.html (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d3.html)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 24, 2012, 01:25:23 AM
Northlight Images has posted a new rumor(info?!):
"Although the AF in the 5D2 replacement is based on the same sensor layout as the 1D X, it is a 'simplified' version.
The dual card setup of the camera is specifically aimed at video users
Just as with the 1DX, clean HDMI is possible."


What could be "simplified version"?
And clean HDMI?

See link:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d3.html (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d3.html)

Simplified could mean anything from a few minor options missing to it's basically rebel stinking AF quality only now 61pts of it. Let us hope for the former. I think Canon better hope so too considering how good the D800 looks.

I think they mean that as with the 1DX, clean HDMI will also be IMPOSSIBLE. It means no full perfect 1920x1080 with all frames all perfectly on the HDMI out plug. Canon video division insisted the DSLRs have this crippled. D4/D800 didn't cripple it.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: moreorless on February 24, 2012, 01:38:14 AM
First off, I think JerryFish (Reply #91) did an excellent job studying the MSRP cost difference between the 1Ds/1DX and the 5D series, for the last 3 generations. That Table is very informative and telling. See below.

I would make the following points, regarding the rumored MSRP:

1.   Keep in mind that through the upgrades of each of its models (including FF series), Canon has done its best to improve various shortcomings of the previous generation. Even though upgrades do cost money and expense, note that such improvements (whether the Pixel Count, ISO, IQ, AF, Processor, FPS, etc.) did NOT result in overly noticeable MSRP increases. (by the way, that is almost true amongst other manufacturers as well, including Nikon). By improving the previous model’s features, and maintaining (or dropping) the MSRP for the newer model, Canon has done very well in holding or improving its position in the market share.

If were talking exclusively about the 5D line then Canon has not really delt with these "shortcomings" before, the 5D mk2 offered a superior sensor and video over the Mk1 but did not offer a significant improvement in FPS, AF or viewfinder coverage. This new 5D is offering specs that are far closer to the tradisional 1D/1DS market.

Quote
3.   In its head-to-head competition with Nikon’s D800, Canon cannot reasonably ask for a higher MSRP than D800’s $3,000.  That is the not-to-exceed price ceiling. In fact, with D800’s long list of expanded features (36MP, Advanced AF, 16-bit Image Processing & Excellent IQ and Video, Built-In Pop-Up Flash, Automated HDR Mode, In-Camera Audio Monitoring & Headphone Jack, Active D-Lighting, USB 3.0 Connector, etc.), it would be wise for Canon to price its new 5D iii/X conservatively at a lower MSRP than D800’s $3,000. An MSRP of around $2,700, similar to 5D II (upon its introduction) would be reasonable.

Based on the above points, if Canon wishes to enjoy the same success and popularity that it had for its 5D line through the past generations, it should price its new 5D III/X at around $2,700.  Otherwise, D800 will win this battle. Simple as that!

In fact, the more I think about the [CR3] report for a MSRP of “Around” $3,500, the more it seems to me that perhaps that price is for a KIT Package, which includes the EF 24-105/f4 L IS II lens.  Now, That would make sense  ;)

It would definately be more sucessful at a lower price however it seems likey(although neither were mention on the CR3) that this new Canon will offer superior ISO, FPS and posisble AF performance compaired to the D800.

As has been mentioned MRSP isnt street price, tradisionally even brand new products are often avalable for significantly below that level. Nikon seem to have bucked that trend by enforcing the MRSP which has likely resulted in it being significantly lower than it otherwise would have been.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Cannon Man on February 24, 2012, 02:40:29 AM
$3500 is completely consistent with my expectations given Canon's new push for profit margins. A basic kit of the 5DIII with the new 24-70 II will set you back $3500+$2400=$5900. The 5DII with old 24-70 is $2000+$1270=$3270 or a difference of $2630. You would get sharper images with better AF but at a very substantial cost. If you're only using the 5DII's center AF point and don't have great technique sticking with the older gear would give you enough savings to purchase a lot more camera gear.

Yes, there is a big price difference compared to 5DII+24-70, but there are BIG improvements in both the new camera and the new lens, the 5D II had the built quality and AF of a 50D and the old 24-70 is not even an L lens compared to the new one.

The prices are very well justified because they are actual products now.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: rotanimod on February 24, 2012, 03:58:54 AM
Wow.

So I read all 30 pages.  :o

Excited for the announcement.

It sums up to this: If Canon fixes the lousy AF of the 5d M II, then what is there really to complain about? Even that alone is worth the upgrade. Besides all the other bells and whistles. 

My hope is they acknowledge the huge demand for extending AEB to 7 or 9 because keeping this exclusively in their 1 series is ridiculous. 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canonic on February 24, 2012, 04:15:14 AM
My hope is they acknowledge the huge demand for extending AEB to 7 or 9 because keeping this exclusively in their 1 series is ridiculous.

Right. And at least 5 AB frames, i hope.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Grum on February 24, 2012, 05:21:35 AM
SandyP, you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I feel your pain. But not in a place where you might think.

I'm sure it feels good to pontificate about how real photographers don't hang out on gear forums, they are out Getting The Shot.

But this is a place dedicated to RUMORS about NEW GEAR. Not about technique or composition. Or discussions about how all the good photos were already taken years ago by the Legends of Photography.

And there is an imminent announcement of a eagerly anticipated camera barreling down the pike.

What did you expect to read about coming to this site at this time?

Really, you flatter yourself that only you can see folly in the discussions going on. All the members here are having fun discussing some possibilities.

That is all.

No-one has a problem with reasonable discussion of the rumoured specs of a highly anticipated camera, otherwise why would we be here? There is some interesting discussion and speculation in this thread.

Some of the stuff in this thread and others is beyond ridiculous though - like the guy who started a thread saying 'I'm glad there are no video improvements in the new 5D III'. WTF? And the ridiculous moaning about a price that may or may not be anywhere near correct.

And I maintain that half the people who are obsessing over not getting 36 MPs have no need of them other than for some kind of weird insecurity-based bragging rights.

I'm really not a Canon fanboy and have actually considered switching to Nikon mainly because of the better low-light AF, but I have quite a bit invested in L lenses so I'm not sure if it's worth it. But all the people going 'OMG CANON HOW DARE YOU!!!!! $3500!!!!! YOU'VE BETRAYED ME!!!! D800 PWNS!!' over a rumoured price/bare bones spec list are hilarious tbh.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: catz on February 24, 2012, 05:22:12 AM
If 5D3 only implements aliasing/moire free video and more resolution on video, I will be more happy to upgrade to 5D3. Even if this was the only improvement on the 5D3 over 5D2, it would be worth every cent.

The other thing I always of course would like to be improved, the dynamic range. It is more important than low light performance. I have been happy with the 5D2 dynamic range since it is much better on it than some other Canon DSLRs, but I would be really happy if it was pushed even greater since I always shoot RAW and edit every picture. That would make amazing possibilities for post-production for the kind of photography I typically do.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: CJRodgers on February 24, 2012, 05:26:49 AM
If 5D3 only implements aliasing/moire free video and more resolution on video, I will be more happy to upgrade to 5D3. Even if this was the only improvement on the 5D3 over 5D2, it would be worth every cent.

The other thing I always of course would like to be improved, the dynamic range. It is more important than low light performance. I have been happy with the 5D2 dynamic range since it is much better on it than some other Canon DSLRs, but I would be really happy if it was pushed even greater since I always shoot RAW and edit every picture. That would make amazing possibilities for post-production for the kind of photography I typically do.

If thats all you want then look at the anti aliasing filter from http://www.mosaicengineering.com/ (http://www.mosaicengineering.com/)

This plus a 5dmkii would be much cheaper! Id hope for other improvements such as rolling shutter, maybe 60fps 1080p, improved codec etc from the next model.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wherenextphotography on February 24, 2012, 06:14:44 AM
If 5D3 only implements aliasing/moire free video and more resolution on video, I will be more happy to upgrade to 5D3. Even if this was the only improvement on the 5D3 over 5D2, it would be worth every cent.

The other thing I always of course would like to be improved, the dynamic range. It is more important than low light performance. I have been happy with the 5D2 dynamic range since it is much better on it than some other Canon DSLRs, but I would be really happy if it was pushed even greater since I always shoot RAW and edit every picture. That would make amazing possibilities for post-production for the kind of photography I typically do.

If thats all you want then look at the anti aliasing filter from http://www.mosaicengineering.com/ (http://www.mosaicengineering.com/)

This plus a 5dmkii would be much cheaper! Id hope for other improvements such as rolling shutter, maybe 60fps 1080p, improved codec etc from the next model.

I'm definitely with you on the 1080p 60 and improved rolling shutter. Looking at the C300, I think Canon certainly have the capability to radically reduce rolling shutter, albeit that it'll be a bit trickier to control on a full-frame sensor with 22MP.

Speaking of which, I'm really happy to see the 5D III sit at 22MP. From a stills perspective, that will give me a native 13 x 19 print (as long as I don't crop too heavily) which is the biggest size that I regularly output to. From a video standpoint, 22MP just happens to be the magic number for exact 3x3 "pixel binning" (averaging over a 3x3 group of pixels) when down-scaling from full-res to 1080p video in 16:9 aspect. The 5D Mark II uses line skipping- basically ignoring every few lines of pixels, throwing away a huge amount of information. If this was in Canon's mind when they decided on the resolution, I think we could be in for massive leaps in video quality over the 5D II. I'll take pixel binning over line skipping any day!

I don't think the codec is the limiting factor in the 5D II; you can bump up the bitrate with Magic Lantern but, to my eyes at least, it doesn't really do a lot. I think it's held back more by its very rudimentary down-scaling method and native 3x3 pixel binning would definitely help there. The Panasonic GH2 employs smarter down-scaling and the resolution, aliasing, moire and high ISO performance are much better than the 5D despite its sensor being tiny in comparison. Imagine what proper down-scaling could do on a whopping full frame sensor! Once the down-scaling is sorted, the codec would be the limiting factor so I'll happily take pixel binning AND an improved codec!

The Canon 5D II is almost iconic for its role in starting the video DSLR revolution (with a nod to the Nikon D90 obviously!) so I've got high hopes that Canon will want to smash the pants off of the video quality with the Mark III.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: MazV-L on February 24, 2012, 06:21:03 AM
Perhaps the price is including the new fancy grip ??? Anyways the price was approximate only, not a definite figure.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: catz on February 24, 2012, 06:31:06 AM
If 5D3 only implements aliasing/moire free video and more resolution on video, I will be more happy to upgrade to 5D3. Even if this was the only improvement on the 5D3 over 5D2, it would be worth every cent.

The other thing I always of course would like to be improved, the dynamic range. It is more important than low light performance. I have been happy with the 5D2 dynamic range since it is much better on it than some other Canon DSLRs, but I would be really happy if it was pushed even greater since I always shoot RAW and edit every picture. That would make amazing possibilities for post-production for the kind of photography I typically do.

If thats all you want then look at the anti aliasing filter from http://www.mosaicengineering.com/ (http://www.mosaicengineering.com/)

This plus a 5dmkii would be much cheaper! Id hope for other improvements such as rolling shutter, maybe 60fps 1080p, improved codec etc from the next model.

And suddenly by adding a antialiasing filter that blurs the already blurry video quality the footage starts to look
like RED right? sarcasm: "Oh wow so convinced".

Mosaic engineering antialiasing filter will help but it will not restore the video resolution nowhere near the 1080p because the 5D2 is not resolving more than something between SD and 720p and the crop sensor Canons are even worse. Mosaic engineering filter can make the video look like good moire-free SD, but not like FullHD. I have been seriously considering getting this filter because a moire free SD is better than the moire h*ll of the DSLR footage.

Video resolution has absolutely nothing to do with the codec, 60p or anything like that. The difference between greatly resolving camera and poorly resolving camera is like day and night even if the codec was really poor and if there was web compression also applied. Poorly resolving uncompressed 4444 12 bit raw looks like crap if compared to a camera that has a poor codec of 8 bit h264 in comparison, but that resolves every pixel of the 1920x1080 frame. This is why Panasonic GH2 even without the hack looks much more sharp than the 5D mark II or any other Canon DSLR despite it has really weak codec with very low bit rate (without the hack). The reduced compression will reduce artefacts on the image, but will never ever not make a blurry video look sharp.

People seem to almost religiously believe that lack of compression will solve the problems. This is not the case. Resolution does not come from nowhere if it did not exist in the first place.

You can do this experiement if you like:
- Make a jpeg image with your 5D mark II and scale it to 1920x1080p. Then save it with compression setting that is relative to the compression of the h264. Now take a video of the same subject. Take a still out of the video. Edit both pictures in image editing program like Aperture and match the colors of these two. Now do a blind test between these. Which one is which. Surprise surprise: equally compressed jpeg will look awesome compared to the frame grab from the video. If the 5D3 will resolve perfect 1920x1080 video, then each frame of that video will be as good as this jpeg scaled to 1920x1080.
- I purchased my 5D2 in the early days after it go launched and I thought that it would be great for video. I was greatly disappointed by the lack of resolution after I did the above test myself.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Martin on February 24, 2012, 06:40:18 AM
Think it over for last couple of days. If the rumors is true, and there will be no significant changes in ISO, DR I will switch to Nikon once again, hope it's the last time. I perform advanced and long time post processing of my studio works so Nikon seems better in it's files.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: atopos on February 24, 2012, 06:41:23 AM
Hi !

What about time code
implemented in 5D III ?
Likely ?
1DX has it.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Grum on February 24, 2012, 06:43:27 AM
Quote
If the rumors is true, and there will be no significant changes in ISO, DR

Where in the rumours does it say that!!?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Martin on February 24, 2012, 06:47:51 AM
If:

1.the rumors is true (22mpix, only better AF, price tag)
2. and nothing changes in other parameters (nothing about this in rumor)

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: CJRodgers on February 24, 2012, 06:49:05 AM
If 5D3 only implements aliasing/moire free video and more resolution on video, I will be more happy to upgrade to 5D3. Even if this was the only improvement on the 5D3 over 5D2, it would be worth every cent.

The other thing I always of course would like to be improved, the dynamic range. It is more important than low light performance. I have been happy with the 5D2 dynamic range since it is much better on it than some other Canon DSLRs, but I would be really happy if it was pushed even greater since I always shoot RAW and edit every picture. That would make amazing possibilities for post-production for the kind of photography I typically do.

If thats all you want then look at the anti aliasing filter from http://www.mosaicengineering.com/ (http://www.mosaicengineering.com/)

This plus a 5dmkii would be much cheaper! Id hope for other improvements such as rolling shutter, maybe 60fps 1080p, improved codec etc from the next model.

And suddenly by adding a antialiasing filter that blurs the already blurry video quality the footage starts to look
like RED right? sarcasm: "Oh wow so convinced".

Mosaic engineering antialiasing filter will help but it will not restore the video resolution nowhere near the 1080p because the 5D2 is not resolving more than something between SD and 720p and the crop sensor Canons are even worse. Mosaic engineering filter can make the video look like good moire-free SD, but not like FullHD. I have been seriously considering getting this filter because a moire free SD is better than the moire h*ll of the DSLR footage.

Video resolution has absolutely nothing to do with the codec, 60p or anything like that. The difference between greatly resolving camera and poorly resolving camera is like day and night even if the codec was really poor and if there was web compression also applied. Poorly resolving uncompressed 4444 12 bit raw looks like crap if compared to a camera that has a poor codec of 8 bit h264 in comparison, but that resolves every pixel of the 1920x1080 frame. This is why Panasonic GH2 even without the hack looks much more sharp than the 5D mark II or any other Canon DSLR despite it has really weak codec with very low bit rate (without the hack). The reduced compression will reduce artefacts on the image, but will never ever not make a blurry video look sharp.

People seem to almost religiously believe that lack of compression will solve the problems. This is not the case. Resolution does not come from nowhere if it did not exist in the first place.

You can do this experiement if you like:
- Make a jpeg image with your 5D mark II and scale it to 1920x1080p. Then save it with compression setting that is relative to the compression of the h264. Now take a video of the same subject. Take a still out of the video. Edit both pictures in image editing program like Aperture and match the colors of these two. Now do a blind test between these. Which one is which. Surprise surprise: equally compressed jpeg will look awesome compared to the frame grab from the video. If the 5D3 will resolve perfect 1920x1080 video, then each frame of that video will be as good as this jpeg scaled to 1920x1080.
- I purchased my 5D2 in the early days after it go launched and I thought that it would be great for video. I was greatly disappointed by the lack of resolution after I did the above test myself.

Yes i do agree with you. Gh2 is much sharper. If only the colours were nearly as nice as canons. I think if there is a big price increase in this latest 5d version, it could be due to highly improved video features of which there are no details. So whilst everyone is upset that the price is possibly so high, it might be justified with excellent video quality as well as the af improvement for stills. This will annoy the people who only want this as a stills camera if they have to bare the increase in price due to superior video features.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: atopos on February 24, 2012, 06:52:04 AM
Canon EOS-1D X (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fShwVsonJFs#ws)

What else will 5DIII borrow from 1DX, You suppose ?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Autocall on February 24, 2012, 07:43:23 AM
absolutely NO mention is made about the sensor' size in the specs.
Could very well be the 7D II.
Anyone think the same?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Rank_90 on February 24, 2012, 08:06:12 AM
absolutely NO mention is made about the sensor' size in the specs.
Could very well be the 7D II.
Anyone think the same?

lol Errr No
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tt on February 24, 2012, 08:32:16 AM
It's the 5D mark II successor. Confirmed With someone who knows.
We await the important details.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Bluntforcetrauma on February 24, 2012, 08:38:34 AM
So  what is some of the big differences between 5DIII and the 1DX?I know price XWEHGWis one thing, but one is full frame and less money,

anyone have a bit of side to side comparison about the specs.

I am a tech newbie.

thanks
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Chewy734 on February 24, 2012, 08:52:21 AM
when exactly is Canon's announcement?  27th? 28th? what time-zone?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: sublime LightWorks on February 24, 2012, 08:52:44 AM
So  what is some of the big differences between 5DIII and the 1DX?I know price XWEHGWis one thing, but one is full frame and less money,

anyone have a bit of side to side comparison about the specs.

I am a tech newbie.

thanks

Ah...tech newbie....fresh meat.......

Seriously, we don't know the full extent of what the 5D3 is going to have, but the speculation of differences is:

1 ) 5D3 will sport a 61pt AF and advanced metering system, but will not be the same as the full pro-level AF and metering of the 1Dx
2 ) Will be  much lower shoot rate, approx 7 fps vs. 12 fps of the 1Dx (1Dx also has a 14 fps JPEG burst mode)
3 ) Will have some level of weather sealing, but not have the weather proof pro body of the 1Dx
4 ) Will not have the same level of noise performance at high ISO settings as the 1Dx (1 to 1.5 stops lower performance)
5 ) 5D3 looks to have dual cards, CF and SD cards, but the 1Dx has dual CF cards
6 ) 5D3 will likely have a smaller RAW buffer (temp storage of images during shooting as the camera xfers to the storage cards)
7 ) 1Dx has a built-in grip, the 5D3 will likely be an optional purchase
8 ) shutter probably be have a rated duty cycle life lower than the 1Dx
9 ) 5D3 will probably have a few video features the are not in the 1Dx (speculation here, nothing has been reported, it's just a general consensus)

There are more diffs, other feel free to add.....

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: zim on February 24, 2012, 09:01:56 AM
four more sleeps  ;D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: surfing_geek on February 24, 2012, 09:42:19 AM
absolutely NO mention is made about the sensor' size in the specs.
Could very well be the 7D II.
Anyone think the same?

I hope not. I can't wait for a 7d mkii but don't want it at that price range or to have a drop in frame rate. I worry for the future of the 7d if comments around here are to be believed about merging it with the 5 series.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: sublime LightWorks on February 24, 2012, 09:51:15 AM
So, **IF** the additional rumor info from NL is correct, and the 5D3's 61pt AF and metering system IS NOT the same as the 1Dx (something I have believed all along and posted/discussed several times in many of the recent threads), this makes it all the more important that the rumored price of about $3500 be a KIT price (camera and lens), and not a body only price. 

I've said several times that getting the full-on 1Dx AF and metering was not likely, based on the technical details of the processors used and the processing demands of the images and the AF/metering systems in the various cameras.  The AF/Metering in the 1Dx has a dedicated Digic 4 processor.  It has two Digic 5 processors to handle the 216Mpix data demands of 18Mpix images at 12 fps, plus all other camera functions.  With an estimated 22Mpix image and 7 fps for the 5D3 (note that 7fps has been listed here but NL has 6fps listed currently), that's a 154Mpix load for what would be a single Digic 5, assuming the AF is full 1Dx and needs the Digic 4 as in that camera.  There is no way that Canon puts 3 processors in the 5D3, no room in the body for it (see the 1Dx circuit board), and no way they will incur that manufacturing cost in this camera.

That being the case, I fully expect to see a dual Digic 5 in the 5D3 handling the image needs and this 61pt "simplified" AF/Metering system now noted on the NL web site.  This makes perfect technical and marketing sense to Canon and fits their track record.

Some folks here are going to be disappointed by this, but honestly, was it realistic to expect Canon to do anything other than this?  To expect the full 1Dx AF and metering based on their clear track record of camera differentiation, regardless of what Nikon does, was just dreaming.  And don't expect a kit with the new 24-70 f/2.8 L II for $3500 either....some people here are floating that lead balloon, I have no idea what they are smoking thinking a $2300 lens plus a $2700-$3000 camera body will sell in a $3500 kit.   Here's another news flash:  it won't have a mirror lockup button either kids.  :)

Of course, depending on what we see in the actual announcement and spec sheet, if the camera comes in with an AF and metering mix of the 7D-1D4-1Dx, has a 7fps frame rate, the 7D nimble handling and convenience features, and decent weather sealing, with a body only price under $3k, I'll give it some serious consideration.  I was fine with a $2999 price from the start for a feature set like this.  However, I'm still leaning towards a 1Dx as a solid workhorse that covers all of my shooting needs and selling my 5D2 w/grip and batteries.

I would not consider a 5D3 as I listed above for the $3500 price if that were body alone, that would seal the deal for a 1Dx by EOY for me.  The price point for consideration is $3k or under for a body only with that feature set above.  I'd rather save for a 1Dx and spend the extra $$$ on a camera that serves a wider set of needs and will be business depreciated over 5 years before selling and replacing.

As for video, I will admit to the following:

1) I have an interest in that for business purposes but know nothing about it
2) I have used the video options on the 5D2 and 7D I own once in the past two years
3) If I'm going to add video to my work, I'll probably get a camera made for that, such as the forth coming 4K DSLR

So whatever video features are included, they aren't a factor to my decision.  I can understand if others have a desire for them, and I'm fine with that being included in the 5D3....it will enable me to learn before expanding to a more specific camera for that work.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Axilrod on February 24, 2012, 10:10:11 AM
absolutely NO mention is made about the sensor' size in the specs.
Could very well be the 7D II.
Anyone think the same?

No, you think that because you desperately want a 7DII.  The 7D is only 2 years old, the 5DII is going on 4 years old, and the thing is CR3 for the next 5D.  And it's repeatedly said "full frame"
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Axilrod on February 24, 2012, 10:14:02 AM
So, **IF** the additional rumor info from NL is correct, and the 5D3's 61pt AF and metering system IS NOT the same as the 1Dx (something I have believed all along and posted/discussed several times in many of the recent threads), this makes it all the more important that the rumored price of about $3500 be a KIT price (camera and lens), and not a body only price. 

The only problem I see with that is that Canon said they want to keep the 5D2 in the lineup, and if the 5D3 were only $2500 it seems like no one would buy anymore 5D2's.  The specs aren't that far off from the 1DX and that's a $6k+ camera, I don't see why you would expect it to be $4000 less. 

Canon knows that this is the most anticipated camera of all time (or at least one of them) and that they will sell out no matter what they charge for it.  I'll pay $4000 all day I dont give a S___.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: unfocused on February 24, 2012, 10:22:00 AM
absolutely NO mention is made about the sensor' size in the specs.
Could very well be the 7D II.
Anyone think the same?

I hope not. I can't wait for a 7d mkii but don't want it at that price range or to have a drop in frame rate. I worry for the future of the 7d if comments around here are to be believed about merging it with the 5 series.

The only thing you should worry about is your own sanity if you start believing comments on this forum. :)

The 7D has not only been a very good seller for Canon, but customer satisfaction is extremely high. Most of the talk about merging lines, eliminating the 7D etc. etc. comes from people with an agenda. There will be a 7DII, it will be APS-C and it will be fantastic. The only thing I wonder about is if there will be a 7DX as well with an integrated grip, fully-sealed body, etc. etc. to give the former 1D owners a 1.6 crop factor to replace the old APS-H format.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Sharper100 on February 24, 2012, 10:55:39 AM
So, **IF** the additional rumor info from NL is correct, and the 5D3's 61pt AF and metering system IS NOT the same as the 1Dx (something I have believed all along and posted/discussed several times in many of the recent threads), this makes it all the more important that the rumored price of about $3500 be a KIT price (camera and lens), and not a body only price. 

I've said several times that getting the full-on 1Dx AF and metering was not likely, based on the technical details of the processors used and the processing demands of the images and the AF/metering systems in the various cameras.  The AF/Metering in the 1Dx has a dedicated Digic 4 processor.  It has two Digic 5 processors to handle the 216Mpix data demands of 18Mpix images at 12 fps, plus all other camera functions.  With an estimated 22Mpix image and 7 fps for the 5D3 (note that 7fps has been listed here but NL has 6fps listed currently), that's a 154Mpix load for what would be a single Digic 5, assuming the AF is full 1Dx and needs the Digic 4 as in that camera.  There is no way that Canon puts 3 processors in the 5D3, no room in the body for it (see the 1Dx circuit board), and no way they will incur that manufacturing cost in this camera.

That being the case, I fully expect to see a dual Digic 5 in the 5D3 handling the image needs and this 61pt "simplified" AF/Metering system now noted on the NL web site.  This makes perfect technical and marketing sense to Canon and fits their track record.

Some folks here are going to be disappointed by this, but honestly, was it realistic to expect Canon to do anything other than this?  To expect the full 1Dx AF and metering based on their clear track record of camera differentiation, regardless of what Nikon does, was just dreaming.  And don't expect a kit with the new 24-70 f/2.8 L II for $3500 either....some people here are floating that lead balloon, I have no idea what they are smoking thinking a $2300 lens plus a $2700-$3000 camera body will sell in a $3500 kit.   Here's another news flash:  it won't have a mirror lockup button either kids.  :)

I would not consider a 5D3 as I listed above for the $3500 price if that were body alone, that would seal the deal for a 1Dx by EOY for me.  The price point for consideration is $3k or under for a body only with that feature set above.  I'd rather save for a 1Dx and spend the extra $$$ on a camera that serves a wider set of needs and will be business depreciated over 5 years before selling and replacing.

Agreed. 

5D3 will be considered the next generation for the 5D line, with the much needed improvements. Hence, it will be compared with Nikon's D800, and NOT with the 1DX.  Don't forget, that 1DX is the top-of-the-line model, which completes with Nikon's D4. That is how it works. Nikon has done the same, by improving D700 to their new D800, with their much needed improvements. Still, the MSRP should stay close to the previous model, for the product line to continue its success.  Keep in mind that the number of buyers who are willing to pay almost any price for an improved camera (i.e. super rich hobbyists, or Pros) are very limited, and I don't think that Canon is only targetting that Select Group.  And that Select Group, may even end up getting the 1DX or D4, anyways.  The larger masses would be the real target group.

So, I repeat: $3,500 MSRP would be considered reasonable for a KIT Price (Camera and Lens), to include perhaps the EF 24-105 L IS II lens.  ;)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: K-amps on February 24, 2012, 11:12:10 AM
absolutely NO mention is made about the sensor' size in the specs.
Could very well be the 7D II.
Anyone think the same?

Different Cameras catering to different markets. Why do people keep wanting to merge these 2? Think Crop factor and reach, think EF vs EF-S lenses and investment thereof. It just won't happen.

However if you are alluding to them dropping the 7D.. and upgrading the 70D, that seems more feasible than merging 5d/7d (though still not feasible) .... however if anything needs to go, the xxD and xxxD lines need to merge since there already is an entry xxxxD line. 4 lines in APS-C is 1 line too much IMHO.

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: sublime LightWorks on February 24, 2012, 11:35:20 AM
So, **IF** the additional rumor info from NL is correct, and the 5D3's 61pt AF and metering system IS NOT the same as the 1Dx (something I have believed all along and posted/discussed several times in many of the recent threads), this makes it all the more important that the rumored price of about $3500 be a KIT price (camera and lens), and not a body only price. 

The only problem I see with that is that Canon said they want to keep the 5D2 in the lineup, and if the 5D3 were only $2500 it seems like no one would buy anymore 5D2's.  The specs aren't that far off from the 1DX and that's a $6k+ camera, I don't see why you would expect it to be $4000 less. 

Canon knows that this is the most anticipated camera of all time (or at least one of them) and that they will sell out no matter what they charge for it.  I'll pay $4000 all day I dont give a S___.

I'm sorry, but where did I post $2500?  I can't seem to find that in my posting.....

By your logic, the T4i should be $2000.  I mean Canon has the T2i and T3i still in the lineup, right?

And if I'm not mistaken, the 5D2 beat the 1DsIII for image quality, had video, and bunch of other cool stuff, yet it costs $7000+ less.

Feel free to pay $4000....I won't stop you.   

<------ Fool.........His Money ------->



Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Chewy734 on February 24, 2012, 11:50:09 AM
Personally, I don't think that people will quote a kit price in their conjecture, especially since there have been no [CR3] mentions of what lens will be included with the kit.  As far as we know, it could even be the new EF 24-70 f/2.8L II, which would make the kit easily over $4500.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: moreorless on February 24, 2012, 12:21:35 PM
Personally, I don't think that people will quote a kit price in their conjecture, especially since there have been no [CR3] mentions of what lens will be included with the kit.  As far as we know, it could even be the new EF 24-70 f/2.8L II, which would make the kit easily over $4500.

The CR3 itself did seem rather more vague about the price than the specs/release date though.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Ricku on February 24, 2012, 12:30:02 PM
Latest rumor provided by Northlight Images:

"Although the AF in the 5D2 replacement is based on the same sensor layout as the 1D X, it is a 'simplified' version. The dual card setup of the camera is specifically aimed at video users"

So no pro AF then?.. Nikon D800 gets pro af AND pro weather sealing.

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d3.html (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d3.html)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 24, 2012, 12:35:50 PM
And if I'm not mistaken, the 5D2 beat the 1DsIII for image quality, had video, and bunch of other cool stuff, yet it costs $7000+ less.

I think you are mistaken there .... apart from the video and high iso (max 3200) the 1Ds3  is in the field is by far the better camera - it has the pro AF and metering for a start and there is the series 1 weather proofing ...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: KeithR on February 24, 2012, 12:53:26 PM
So no pro AF then?.. Nikon D800 gets pro af AND pro weather sealing.

I don't see "simplified 1DX AF" and "pro AF" to be mutually exclusive, Ricku - it really depends what "simplified" means.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 24, 2012, 01:01:00 PM
So no pro AF then?.. Nikon D800 gets pro af AND pro weather sealing.

I don't see "simplified 1DX AF" and "pro AF" to be mutually exclusive, Ricku - it really depends what "simplified" means.

Good point - rather like the 7D AF is a simplofied version of the 1D4 AF?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: KeithR on February 24, 2012, 01:06:27 PM
Good point - rather like the 7D AF is a simplofied version of the 1D4 AF?

Or indeed, the 1D4 is a simplified 7D AF: the 7D might have fewer AF points, but it has features the 1D4 lacks.

Spot AF, anyone?

;)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 24, 2012, 01:12:45 PM
Good point - rather like the 7D AF is a simplofied version of the 1D4 AF?

Or indeed, the 1D4 is a simplified 7D AF: the 7D might have fewer AF points, but it has features the 1D4 lacks.

Spot AF, anyone?

;)

1D4 has spot as well. Also more  and better options around expansion points, metering linking to AF point, metering linked to AF points and the AF locks on SOOO much faster.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 24, 2012, 01:21:54 PM
Canon EOS-1D X (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fShwVsonJFs#ws)

What else will 5DIII borrow from 1DX, You suppose ?

Deliberately crippled HDMI out to protect the video market. watch from 06.10 min
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: canartist on February 24, 2012, 01:24:11 PM
Latest rumor provided by Northlight Images:

"Although the AF in the 5D2 replacement is based on the same sensor layout as the 1D X, it is a 'simplified' version.



http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d3.html (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d3.html)

When I said that, somebody denied it coz 61pt is already a CR3..lol
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Abraxx on February 24, 2012, 01:25:49 PM
So many wild speculations.
Curious to see the reactions when the final announcement is there...  :)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 24, 2012, 01:33:12 PM

If thats all you want then look at the anti aliasing filter from http://www.mosaicengineering.com/ (http://www.mosaicengineering.com/)



Nice link, if the new 61pt af is just rebel quality and the fps are not upped much I think this AA filter would make a lot more sense (although the res would still be quite low so a future (and less expensive) 70D might make even more sense), that or the D800 of course hah. (hopefully the new AF will be close to 1DX and the fps 6.9 as rumored though)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 24, 2012, 01:48:56 PM
Seriously, we don't know the full extent of what the 5D3 is going to have, but the speculation of differences is:

1 ) 5D3 will sport a 61pt AF and advanced metering system, but will not be the same as the full pro-level AF and metering of the 1Dx

I seriously hope they don't ruin the camera here and put in some million point AF chip that has the same crappy precision, accuracy, tracking, ability to deal with backlighting, etc. that the rebels, xxD and even the 7D has.
I mean come on they are not upping the MP and the D800 is loaded so this is not the time to play more stupid internal segmentation marketing games!! Jeez they have had a decaded to fiddle with AF and you know maybe if they didn't waste money having to create so many different watered down versions and just focused on making one good system that worked well (ok and maybe a cut down one for Rebels) they wouldn't run into 1D3 AF fiascos and all. Nikon doesn't waste resources finding ways to make 30 different versions of crummy AF and allows one to get top AF without having to buy a brick!

Quote
2 ) Will be  much lower shoot rate, approx 7 fps vs. 12 fps of the 1Dx (1Dx also has a 14 fps JPEG burst mode)

I really hope all those 6.9fps are correct. If it is say 4.5fps and with water down AF this thing will be dead in the water.

Quote
3 ) Will have some level of weather sealing, but not have the weather proof pro body of the 1Dx

most probably so

Quote
4 ) Will not have the same level of noise performance at high ISO settings as the 1Dx (1 to 1.5 stops lower performance)

No way. If that is true then it will probably do worse than the 5D2! I doubt it would do more than 1/6th stop worse, if even. It shouldn't unless they majorly messed up or something had to be altered to get top video quality or something.

Quote
5 ) 5D3 looks to have dual cards, CF and SD cards, but the 1Dx has dual CF cards

true

Quote
6 ) 5D3 will likely have a smaller RAW buffer (temp storage of images during shooting as the camera xfers to the storage cards)

hopefully they don't go too far with it though and make it useless

Quote
7 ) 1Dx has a built-in grip, the 5D3 will likely be an optional purchase

100% for sure an optional purchase

Quote
8 ) shutter probably be have a rated duty cycle life lower than the 1Dx
9 ) 5D3 will probably have a few video features the are not in the 1Dx (speculation here, nothing has been reported, it's just a general consensus)

probably

as for additional points:

they will probably leave out the ability to record voice notes along with photos :(

they will probably fail to outline the histogram again so you won't be able to see where it ends unless you are shooting in a lab :(

hopefully they will have the 1DX's, mulit-point MFA for zooms (honestly with how great the D800 is Canon just can't play so many stupid little cripple everything but 1 series to pieces games any more, especially not with the sole 1D body now at $7000)

hopefully they will finally have dribbled out enough AutoISO options to finally give us a working version after a decade (by allowing it to use EC now) although I have my doubts

hopefully they don't go with cheap read out electronics for the 5D3 and have it have ugly banded shadows while (perhaps) fixing the 1DX shadows (the 1Ds3 had less shadow banding than the 5D2), if they do then the D800 will also destroy it for low ISO DR despite having more than 50% more MP.

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 24, 2012, 01:53:21 PM
So no pro AF then?.. Nikon D800 gets pro af AND pro weather sealing.

I don't see "simplified 1DX AF" and "pro AF" to be mutually exclusive, Ricku - it really depends what "simplified" means.

Good point - rather like the 7D AF is a simplofied version of the 1D4 AF?

I hope that is not what they mean because the 7D AF doesn't perform nearly as well, heck the center point, for stills and even distant object AI Servo, I don't think even does as well as the 5D2.

I fear it now though. Again thinking to the guy who said canon marketing was out of touch and still hasn't gotten it even with this critical 5D next gen release and just everything Canon has done for the last 6 years.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Sharper100 on February 24, 2012, 01:58:05 PM
So many wild speculations.
Curious to see the reactions when the final announcement is there...  :)

It would be interesting, indeed!

If it is priced in line with the 5D line, and competitive (i.e. Lower) compared with the D800, then there would be many happy customers. Most purchases would come from current Canon owners, and perhaps many converting from Nikon. However, if the price is too high (i.e. as suggested by the CR3) then many would be disappointed, and will decide on other options (used 5D2, 7D; or D800 for FF).  So, let's hope that Canon Really wants to sell a lot of the new 5D3's, for everybody's sake!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mitchell3417 on February 24, 2012, 02:03:49 PM
So...who wants to guess the 5DX Mark II specs?  ;)

After 500 posts on this topic why not try something new.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: photogaz on February 24, 2012, 02:27:16 PM
It's gone remarkably quiet on the CR front huh.  I hope the specs are right and there is something Tuesday but I can't help feel something is off.

I'm guessing its CR3 because its the same source as the 1DX.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: WoodysGamertag on February 24, 2012, 02:49:11 PM
It's gone remarkably quiet on the CR front huh.  I hope the specs are right and there is something Tuesday but I can't help feel something is off.

I'm guessing its CR3 because its the same source as the 1DX.
I wonder if that's partially just business decision? They have the news of the year at the top of their home page right now.  Would you bump it to announce a pocket wizard or lens patent?

I suspect they'll keep that right there unless they get more 5D news.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: photogaz on February 24, 2012, 03:08:54 PM
A very good point.  CR has got to think of it from a business point of view, I bet those ads are getting more clicks than ever.  After all, its all downhill after the announcement.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jalbfb on February 24, 2012, 03:37:07 PM
If you google "Canon 5DIII rumors" and you go to sites other than CR, they are all quoting CR.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: fotoray on February 24, 2012, 03:44:00 PM
If you google "Canon 5DIII rumors" and you go to sites other than CR, they are all quoting CR.

This is a fun link about the 5D3

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh-2oQfSPYA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh-2oQfSPYA)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jalbfb on February 24, 2012, 04:00:58 PM
If you google "Canon 5DIII rumors" and you go to sites other than CR, they are all quoting CR.

This is a fun link about the 5D3

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh-2oQfSPYA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh-2oQfSPYA)

LMFAO!!!! 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: amarlez on February 24, 2012, 04:06:52 PM
So...who wants to guess the 5DX Mark II specs?  ;)

After 500 posts on this topic why not try something new.


Native ISO @ 204,800  (expandable up to ISO 3,276,800)
No battery — hyrdogen fuel cell
Video and photo will be integrated — 60 fps for jpeg, 30 fps for RAW
Compatible with all of Canon's f/1.2 L IS zooms
Wifi controller that allows you to not only control flashes, but every light in the room
9 mp but medium format
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: D_Rochat on February 24, 2012, 04:17:13 PM
So...who wants to guess the 5DX Mark II specs?  ;)

After 500 posts on this topic why not try something new.


Native ISO @ 204,800  (expandable up to ISO 3,276,800)
No battery — hyrdogen fuel cell
Video and photo will be integrated — 60 fps for jpeg, 30 fps for RAW
Compatible with all of Canon's f/1.2 L IS zooms
Wifi controller that allows you to not only control flashes, but every light in the room
9 mp but medium format

5DX mkII image leaked today.
(http://students.expression.edu/outsideofschool/files/2011/03/star-wars-hologram1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jalbfb on February 24, 2012, 04:30:16 PM
Wow. It took 33 pages to finally get down to these kinds of posts (mine included).  Not much more to say or speculate on I guess.  Waiting for the 27/28.  Can't come soon enough. Once it's announced, we'll be off and posting/reading once again.  Over/under for the announcement day pages posted 50/36. ;D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: skitron on February 24, 2012, 04:35:25 PM
Native ISO @ 204,800  (expandable up to ISO 3,276,800)
No battery — hyrdogen fuel cell
Video and photo will be integrated — 60 fps for jpeg, 30 fps for RAW
Compatible with all of Canon's f/1.2 L IS zooms
Wifi controller that allows you to not only control flashes, but every light in the room
9 mp but medium format

I heard it will also have self correcting telepathic composition...just imagine the shot you really want and it will do the rest, even if you imagined wrong!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: amarlez on February 24, 2012, 04:51:02 PM

I heard it will also have self correcting telepathic composition...just imagine the shot you really want and it will do the rest, even if you imagined wrong!


Really puts premium on imagining the picture.

But really... what about eye control? How great would that be with the new zone AF they started with the 7D?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Smith on February 24, 2012, 05:04:08 PM
I'm predicting that when the new 590EX is announced with the 5D it will have an MSRP of $700.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: sublime LightWorks on February 24, 2012, 05:05:30 PM
And if I'm not mistaken, the 5D2 beat the 1DsIII for image quality, had video, and bunch of other cool stuff, yet it costs $7000+ less.

I think you are mistaken there .... apart from the video and high iso (max 3200) the 1Ds3  is in the field is by far the better camera - it has the pro AF and metering for a start and there is the series 1 weather proofing ...

Brian, re-look at what I said in the context it was stated.  No one said the 5D2 was better than the 1Ds.

Obviously the 1Ds3 is overall a way better camera considering all it's functions.  The context of the statement was in response to another poster who argued that the 5D3 deserved it's high price given what it will be able to do and that to think it should cost $3000 (or less) ignored all it's advanced functions, etc.:

Quote
The only problem I see with that is that Canon said they want to keep the 5D2 in the lineup, and if the 5D3 were only $2500 it seems like no one would buy anymore 5D2's.  The specs aren't that far off from the 1DX and that's a $6k+ camera, I don't see why you would expect it to be $4000 less.

I simply pointed out that the 5D2 outperformed the 1Ds3 in terms of image quality, ISO, and had video features not found in any camera, at a price that was $7000+ less than the 1Ds3.  The poster's logic was flawed in his reasoning when an obvious example of great technology and functionality was previously available for $7k+ less.

Re-read the full posting, I think you'll understand  my point. 

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 24, 2012, 05:11:15 PM
And if I'm not mistaken, the 5D2 beat the 1DsIII for image quality, had video, and bunch of other cool stuff, yet it costs $7000+ less.

I think you are mistaken there .... apart from the video and high iso (max 3200) the 1Ds3  is in the field is by far the better camera - it has the pro AF and metering for a start and there is the series 1 weather proofing ...

Brian, re-look at what I said in the context it was stated.  No one said the 5D2 was better than the 1Ds.

Obviously the 1Ds3 is overall a way better camera considering all it's functions.  The context of the statement was in response to another poster who argued that the 5D3 deserved it's high price given what it will be able to do and that to think it should cost $3000 (or less) ignored all it's advanced functions, etc.:

Quote
The only problem I see with that is that Canon said they want to keep the 5D2 in the lineup, and if the 5D3 were only $2500 it seems like no one would buy anymore 5D2's.  The specs aren't that far off from the 1DX and that's a $6k+ camera, I don't see why you would expect it to be $4000 less.

I simply pointed out that the 5D2 outperformed the 1Ds3 in terms of image quality, ISO, and had video features not found in any camera, at a price that was $7000+ less than the 1Ds3.  The poster's logic was flawed in his reasoning when an obvious example of great technology and functionality was previously available for $7k+ less.

Re-read the full posting, I think you'll understand  my point.

Sorry i thought that "the 5D2 beat the 1DsIII for image quality" meant that the 5D2 was better than the 1Ds3 and that you were trying to say that the cheaper camera performed better than the expensive one.  8) 8) 8)

Having both the 5D2 and the 1Ds3 I can assure you that at lower ISO (up to 1600) the 5D2 doesn't have the best image quality - which is what I was trying to point out.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 24, 2012, 05:12:37 PM
So...who wants to guess the 5DX Mark II specs?  ;)

After 500 posts on this topic why not try something new.

39MP, 6.5fps, crippled version of 1DX AF
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wockawocka on February 24, 2012, 07:34:39 PM
Quote
Having both the 5D2 and the 1Ds3 I can assure you that at lower ISO (up to 1600) the 5D2 doesn't have the best image quality - which is what I was trying to point out.

Agreed, in particular ISO 100 on the 1Ds3 still has the best IQ of all Canon cameras. I've had nearly every single one since the 300D to measure it against.

Exciting times ahead with the 1Dx
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Mooose on February 24, 2012, 08:21:09 PM
absolutely NO mention is made about the sensor' size in the specs.
Could very well be the 7D II.
Anyone think the same?

absolutely NO mention of it being a camera in the specs.   Could very well be a waffle maker.
Anyone think the same?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: yngdiego on February 24, 2012, 08:41:05 PM


absolutely NO mention of it being a camera in the specs.   Could very well be a waffle maker.
Anyone think the same?
[/quote]

I was actually thinking more along the lines of a super Ginsu knife.....but then it would cost $19.95, and you could double the offer for only $9.95 handing and shipping.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: D_Rochat on February 24, 2012, 10:05:26 PM
absolutely NO mention of it being a camera in the specs.   Could very well be a waffle maker.
Anyone think the same?


I heard the D800 makes Espresso. I think I'm going to switch to Nikon then.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: SomeGuyInNewJersey on February 24, 2012, 11:52:57 PM
So...who wants to guess the 5DX Mark II specs?  ;)

After 500 posts on this topic why not try something new.

2MP - Because according to many self proclaimed experts you dont need many pixels as long as they are good ones.
Quad digic 5+ produces a burst speed of 1247.3 images a second AT FULL RESOLUTION! wow...
4 pixel mode - multiple photosites on the sensor used per pixel to produce the ulimate in light sensitivity... ISO 3 x 10 ^8. Can produce 2x2 pixel images noise free in 99.999% darkness!

The new cameras name will be the 5d-WTF and will be available 2012/04/01 at all good Walmart stores...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: starstreak on February 25, 2012, 12:27:28 AM
I just hope if they are charging $3500 body only, it had better be better than the D800. 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: stilscream on February 25, 2012, 12:39:34 AM
So...who wants to guess the 5DX Mark II specs?  ;)

After 500 posts on this topic why not try something new.

2MP - Because according to many self proclaimed experts you dont need many pixels as long as they are good ones.
Quad digic 5+ produces a burst speed of 1247.3 images a second AT FULL RESOLUTION! wow...
4 pixel mode - multiple photosites on the sensor used per pixel to produce the ulimate in light sensitivity... ISO 3 x 10 ^8. Can produce 2x2 pixel images noise free in 99.999% darkness!

The new cameras name will be the 5d-WTF and will be available 2012/04/01 at all good Walmart stores...

Finally, some marketing that makes sense.

The next gen will be co created by Apple called iCamera, a .5mp, 1.2 fps burst mode. It will be sold for $10,000, have ilenses that sell for $4000 ea. F8 only aperature making focus a breeze! They will come in a rainbow of colors, touchscreen controls and you must pay 99 cents to view each exposure. Nikon will of course be bankrupt in 3 years time. Chargers, memory cards, printers, their paper and ink, flashes and all accessories will be proprietary and only available through Apple. All retail stores selling the icamera will pay $9,990 per camera and $3,990 per lens.  Justin Bieber will sing the theme song on the commercials and each year, a new camera will make an innovation that's been out for a long time. Photography as a profession will be eliminated, since everyone will own one, even the homeless. Thanks for selling out.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Musouka on February 25, 2012, 02:46:45 AM
Maybe someone would jump on stage and shout "Yo Canon, I'm really happy for you and I'mma let you finish but the Nikon D800E is the best prosumer camera of all time.... OF ALL TIME"    ;)

On a slightly different note:

Nikon: 16 Megapixels is “More Than Enough” for a Camera (http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/01/nikon-16-megapixels-is-more-than-enough-for-a-camera/)

That was before the D800 was announced, naturally. ::)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: D.Sim on February 25, 2012, 03:03:49 AM
Maybe someone would jump on stage and shout "Yo Canon, I'm really happy for you and I'mma let you finish but the Nikon D800E is the best prosumer camera of all time.... OF ALL TIME"  :-*

On a slightly different note:

Nikon: 16 Megapixels is “More Than Enough” for a Camera (http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/01/nikon-16-megapixels-is-more-than-enough-for-a-camera/)

That was before the D800 was announced, naturally.

Dated 13 January 2012.

Hilarious. No doubt its before the D800 was announced, but you'd think a Nikon Europe rep would have known about a MegaPixel monster that was coming right after...

"Whoops"?  ???

+1 to you sir, for making my day
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: KeithR on February 25, 2012, 03:55:29 AM
if there will be a 7DX as well with an integrated grip, fully-sealed body, etc. etc. to give the former 1D owners a 1.6 crop factor to replace the old APS-H format.

I would happily bludgeon members of my own family into a bloody pulp in order to get my hands on that camera..!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: KeithR on February 25, 2012, 04:06:42 AM
1D4 has spot as well.
Only if you use the right lens - the 7D has spot with any lens.

Quote
metering linking to AF point

Much like the 7D - although Canon describe the 7D's metering as biased to the AF point in use: but as an ex Nikon user, I can confidently say that it adds up to the same thing.

Quote
the AF locks on SOOO much faster.

Irrelevant if the 7D is as fast as you need it to be - which it is (http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/tfu29/upload/020112/desert_wheatear_newbiggin_2a.jpg).

The 1D[insert number of choice] users I was shoulder-to-shoulder with here didn't get this shot - and this was with a creaky old 100-400mm too...

Schoolboy error with that shot - it's at 3200 ISO, because I'd forgotten to reset it after shooting a gig the night before.

Still, it made for a nice high shutter speed!

;)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Drama79 on February 25, 2012, 04:24:17 AM
Screw the 5D-X. I'm waiting for the 5D-X2. I hear it's coming any day now...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 25, 2012, 04:41:12 AM
If you are happy with the 7D then that is good  8) 8) 8)

I will stick to my series 1  8) 8) 8)

Quote
the AF locks on SOOO much faster.
Quote
Irrelevant if the 7D is as fast as you need it to be

When I argued from this point for the 5D2 there was a flurry of activity from the 7D fans who criticised the AF on the 5D2 labelling it disatrous - and I got 30 smites in response.

For BIF/sports etc the AF needs to lock as quick as possible - even my old 1Ds3 out performs the 7D from this point of view. I had 2 7Ds which I used alongside the 1D4 and I wouldn't go back to the simplified AF system on the 7D.

I am hoping that the next 5D has a better AF than the 7D and hopefully as good or better than the 1Ds3. With the series 1 style AF cross-type focusing on all 39 AF points works with the 17-40 and 24-105 which is excellent news considering he popularity of those lens. For studio work the 7D style spot AF might be useful if it could be selected seperately from a normal AF point without changing a Custom function

Other things I would like from the series 1:

- Spot metering linked to the AF points. With 39 AF points it is easier to compose with the AF point where you need it - and get the metering correct at that point

- multispot metering - means tricky objects such as a wedding dress can be exposed correctly

- up to 7 shot bracketing for those difficult light shots/hdr  with +-3 stop with variable AEB amount. Sequence to be done through holding down the shutter whilst in continuous drive mode


Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Autocall on February 25, 2012, 11:34:50 AM
absolutely NO mention is made about the sensor' size in the specs.
Could very well be the 7D II.
Anyone think the same?

absolutely NO mention of it being a camera in the specs.   Could very well be a waffle maker.
Anyone think the same?

canadian or belgian?
 :o
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkrimmer on February 25, 2012, 11:41:40 AM
so only two days left and no more news about the new 5d?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: DzPhotography on February 25, 2012, 11:53:47 AM
so only two days left and no more news about the new 5d?
all is quiet...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: simonxu11 on February 25, 2012, 11:57:46 AM
Just heard a rumor guys, the cr3 spec 5d III/x won't be released in the near future because the pressure from Nikon d800, canon will adjust their spec according to d800 so the 5dIII/x will be delayed!

No link and it's a rumor!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: dystorsion on February 25, 2012, 11:58:20 AM
It'll be here soon. I get the impression that CR guy would rather let us wait than spout information that may be incorrect - the crux of the specifications is already with us after all. It's likely he got it from a single highly dependable source that has now become mum. No sense in corroborating from other sources since we're so close.

Though, admittedly, I've been checking CR.com every day for new information. 
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Jay_S on February 25, 2012, 12:08:06 PM
So not knowing a whole lot more about DR, ISO, etc. I'm debating the 5DmkII (at significantly reduced cost) vs. the mkIII at $3500 for base body.  I've already got a 7D some I've got plenty of speed for action and sports. Wanted full frame primarily for portraits, landscapes, so the 3.5 FPS on 5DmkII doesn't have a negative impact. Metering at focus point might, but again there are lots of ways around that with the 5DmkII.. 

Is anyone (with a 7D) thinking along the same lines (sorry I didn't read all 35 pages)..  Anyone have an holes they can poke in the thought?  I mean the extra $1500 - $1600 can buy and awfully nice full frame 1.4/1.2 lens..

Jay S.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: dystorsion on February 25, 2012, 12:12:53 PM
So not knowing a whole lot more about DR, ISO, etc. I'm debating the 5DmkII (at significantly reduced cost) vs. the mkIII at $3500 for base body.  I've already got a 7D some I've got plenty of speed for action and sports. Wanted full frame primarily for portraits, landscapes, so the 3.5 FPS on 5DmkII doesn't have a negative impact. Metering at focus point might, but again there are lots of ways around that with the 5DmkII.. 

Is anyone (with a 7D) thinking along the same lines (sorry I didn't read all 35 pages)..  Anyone have an holes they can poke in the thought?  I mean the extra $1500 - $1600 can buy and awfully nice full frame 1.4/1.2 lens..

Jay S.

People are speculating that $3500 is with kit lens. Users from other forums seem to have evidence.

Otherwise, we should all trust Canon - if they're pricing it at $3500, it's because they know it's good. Take a look at the 24-70 II. We were all confounded at the high price tag, but we've since learned that the IQ is god-tier from people who have used it. Simply put, Canon seems to know what they're doing. The things we don't know about the MK III could be good things.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkrimmer on February 25, 2012, 12:17:50 PM
People are speculating that $3500 is with kit lens. Users from other forums seem to have evidence.

evidence? evidence that 3500$ is actually the kit-price?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: dystorsion on February 25, 2012, 12:19:26 PM
People are speculating that $3500 is with kit lens. Users from other forums seem to have evidence.

evidence? evidence that 3500$ is actually the kit-price?

I'm sorry but I didn't bookmark any links. I was browsing dpreview.com, fredmiranda.com, and here and came across a few who think so.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: DzPhotography on February 25, 2012, 12:25:20 PM
So not knowing a whole lot more about DR, ISO, etc. I'm debating the 5DmkII (at significantly reduced cost) vs. the mkIII at $3500 for base body.  I've already got a 7D some I've got plenty of speed for action and sports. Wanted full frame primarily for portraits, landscapes, so the 3.5 FPS on 5DmkII doesn't have a negative impact. Metering at focus point might, but again there are lots of ways around that with the 5DmkII.. 

Is anyone (with a 7D) thinking along the same lines (sorry I didn't read all 35 pages)..  Anyone have an holes they can poke in the thought?  I mean the extra $1500 - $1600 can buy and awfully nice full frame 1.4/1.2 lens..

Jay S.

People are speculating that $3500 is with kit lens. Users from other forums seem to have evidence.

Otherwise, we should all trust Canon - if they're pricing it at $3500, it's because they know it's good. Take a look at the 24-70 II. We were all confounded at the high price tag, but we've since learned that the IQ is god-tier from people who have used it. Simply put, Canon seems to know what they're doing. The things we don't know about the MK III could be good things.
I'm curious about what kit lens that would be...Plastic Fantastic?  :P
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Jay_S on February 25, 2012, 12:26:15 PM
Quote
People are speculating that $3500 is with kit lens. Users from other forums seem to have evidence.

I'm not sure I've seen any posts about a kit lens, and not sure what lens they would throw in that has enough value to raise to a $3500 price tag.  You're not going to put a junk lens in with what has the potential to be a new standard body for many photographers.. That's like the old "putting $29 speakers on a $2000 receiver" analogy.  There may be some combo deals out there, or if the price tag with a kit kens is $3500 and its a decent lens, maybe the body is back down in the more reasonable range.

Jay S.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Drama79 on February 25, 2012, 12:51:58 PM
Hey Jay,

I'm in the same boat. I'd already decided to upgrade to the 5D 4 months ago, so did some reading and decided I'd hang out until the next body was announced. I'm using the 7D to the best of it's ability, and I use it 50/50 for video and pics, so I'm pretty locked on the new body, even at the high price point. Which, from looking at it, would make sense to be with a kit lens. But again, no one knows anything until Canon announce. But guessing is fun....
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: stilscream on February 25, 2012, 12:58:50 PM
So not knowing a whole lot more about DR, ISO, etc. I'm debating the 5DmkII (at significantly reduced cost) vs. the mkIII at $3500 for base body.  I've already got a 7D some I've got plenty of speed for action and sports. Wanted full frame primarily for portraits, landscapes, so the 3.5 FPS on 5DmkII doesn't have a negative impact. Metering at focus point might, but again there are lots of ways around that with the 5DmkII.. 

Is anyone (with a 7D) thinking along the same lines (sorry I didn't read all 35 pages)..  Anyone have an holes they can poke in the thought?  I mean the extra $1500 - $1600 can buy and awfully nice full frame 1.4/1.2 lens..

Jay S.

I also have a 7d and looking to upgrade to FF, but I think the mk iii might be a better option, because, if need be, I can get rid of my 7d and use the 5d mk iii for sports/nature with the higher fps, where the mk ii is not as versatile.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jalbfb on February 25, 2012, 01:01:14 PM
Just heard a rumor guys, the cr3 spec 5d III/x won't be released in the near future because the pressure from Nikon d800, canon will adjust their spec according to d800 so the 5dIII/x will be delayed!

No link and it's a rumor!

You can't just make a statement like this and not provide more info other than "no link and it's a rumor!"  where did you just hear a rumor.  Is it wild speculation from some post in a forum or from a reasonably reliable blog?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Chuck Alaimo on February 25, 2012, 01:07:17 PM
just a guess, but, I can't see them using anything less than the  24-105 f4L as the 'kit' lens.  If we assume that the kit L lens will be bundled for an extra $800, that would mean the body price would be $2700 (assuming the $3500 price tag is both accurate and with lens).  I don't know, something in me says $2700 would be too low, $2900, or the silly 2999 tag may be applied (lol, it looks less than 3000, lol, its silly but there is a rule of 5's and 9's in pricing for a reason!) - so kit would then fall in at $3700, or, they could take a loss on the 24-105 and boom, looks like a great deal!!!  With all the mkii lenses now, the 24-105 may very well get an update soon, so tossing a serious discount on it may in the end just be a way to clear inventory. 

As with all this stuff though, who the hell knows!!!!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: moreorless on February 25, 2012, 01:07:53 PM
Quote
People are speculating that $3500 is with kit lens. Users from other forums seem to have evidence.

I'm not sure I've seen any posts about a kit lens, and not sure what lens they would throw in that has enough value to raise to a $3500 price tag.  You're not going to put a junk lens in with what has the potential to be a new standard body for many photographers.. That's like the old "putting $29 speakers on a $2000 receiver" analogy.  There may be some combo deals out there, or if the price tag with a kit kens is $3500 and its a decent lens, maybe the body is back down in the more reasonable range.

Jay S.

The current 24-105 kit is about $800 more than the body alone so that would equal a price of $2700 which does not seem impossible to me.

Bit of a long shot but perhaps the rumorued 40mm 2.8 pancake? the new 18-135mm is likely going to be a kit with the 650D and the pancake was rumoured along side it.

Quote
Just heard a rumor guys, the cr3 spec 5d III/x won't be released in the near future because the pressure from Nikon d800, canon will adjust their spec according to d800 so the 5dIII/x will be delayed!

No link and it's a rumor!

Seems very unlikely to me, the Nikon specs have been known almost definately for 3-4 months and 36 megapixels has been strongly rumoured since last summer.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 25, 2012, 01:08:14 PM
Maybe someone would jump on stage and shout "Yo Canon, I'm really happy for you and I'mma let you finish but the Nikon D800E is the best prosumer camera of all time.... OF ALL TIME"    ;)

On a slightly different note:

Nikon: 16 Megapixels is “More Than Enough” for a Camera (http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/01/nikon-16-megapixels-is-more-than-enough-for-a-camera/)

That was before the D800 was announced, naturally. ::)

hah, wow
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 25, 2012, 01:08:57 PM
absolutely NO mention is made about the sensor' size in the specs.
Could very well be the 7D II.
Anyone think the same?

absolutely NO mention of it being a camera in the specs.   Could very well be a waffle maker.
Anyone think the same?

canadian or belgian?
 :o

how fast does it make them (unencumbered)?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 25, 2012, 01:10:24 PM
Just heard a rumor guys, the cr3 spec 5d III/x won't be released in the near future because the pressure from Nikon d800, canon will adjust their spec according to d800 so the 5dIII/x will be delayed!

No link and it's a rumor!

I doubt it, but I'd be glad. If they need to spec it up, then do it and delay us 4-6 months rather than try to get us to spend $3000 for some lame update we have to use until 2015.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 25, 2012, 01:12:34 PM
Quote
People are speculating that $3500 is with kit lens. Users from other forums seem to have evidence.

I'm not sure I've seen any posts about a kit lens, and not sure what lens they would throw in that has enough value to raise to a $3500 price tag.  You're not going to put a junk lens in with what has the potential to be a new standard body for many photographers.. That's like the old "putting $29 speakers on a $2000 receiver" analogy.  There may be some combo deals out there, or if the price tag with a kit kens is $3500 and its a decent lens, maybe the body is back down in the more reasonable range.

Jay S.

The rumor I saw was $3800 Canadian with kit lens. I don't have the link. Some of the forums have no msg body search and I don't want to spend an hour tracking it down. I spent 5 minutes and couldn't find it again quickly.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: NotABunny on February 25, 2012, 01:16:40 PM
Quote
People are speculating that $3500 is with kit lens. Users from other forums seem to have evidence.

I'm not sure I've seen any posts about a kit lens, and not sure what lens they would throw in that has enough value to raise to a $3500 price tag.  You're not going to put a junk lens in with what has the potential to be a new standard body for many photographers.. That's like the old "putting $29 speakers on a $2000 receiver" analogy.  There may be some combo deals out there, or if the price tag with a kit kens is $3500 and its a decent lens, maybe the body is back down in the more reasonable range.

Jay S.

 For example (http://usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon/products?pageKeyCode=pressreldetail&docId=0901e0248004d31e)

Quote
The EOS 5D Mark II will be sold in a body-only configuration at an estimated retail price of $2,699iii. It will additionally be offered in a kit version with Canon's EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM zoom lens at an estimated retail price of $3,499iv.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkrimmer on February 25, 2012, 01:41:44 PM
another interesting detail: do you guys think the new 5d will be available right after the announcement or in a few month? i saw a information about a NDA which ends on monday. and if that means the journalists already have their test units then the new 5d might be ready for sale.

what do you think?

And: CR-guy wrote: "Announcement on February 27 or 28, 2012 (Depending where you are on earth)"

I'm on the european part of the earth. does that mean 27th or 28th of feb?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 25, 2012, 02:07:33 PM
another interesting detail: do you guys think the new 5d will be available right after the announcement or in a few month? i saw a information about a NDA which ends on monday. and if that means the journalists already have their test units then the new 5d might be ready for sale.

what do you think?

And: CR-guy wrote: "Announcement on February 27 or 28, 2012 (Depending where you are on earth)"

I'm on the european part of the earth. does that mean 27th or 28th of feb?

In the past they would often be in stores 3-4 weeks after the announcement, although it seems to be taking longer with each release. I believe the 5D2 took three months to hit stores.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: BillyBean on February 25, 2012, 02:41:45 PM

I'm on the european part of the earth. does that mean 27th or 28th of feb?

I'm on the English part of Planet Earth.... It means that just as I am waking up, my colleagues in Australia are going to bed. It's a damn nuisance. But the good news for the 5DX is that the 28th of February starts (at midnight usually...) around midday on the 27th in England. Japan is 8 hours ahead of England, so if the announcement is (say) 7am, then this would be 11pm on the 27th in England. But it could be earlier or later.

Obviously it depends on where you are, and what time the announcement goes live. CR guy probably knows more about the timing these things usually are, but he seems to have disappeared the last couple of days...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wellfedCanuck on February 25, 2012, 02:55:09 PM
Quote
People are speculating that $3500 is with kit lens. Users from other forums seem to have evidence.

I'm not sure I've seen any posts about a kit lens, and not sure what lens they would throw in that has enough value to raise to a $3500 price tag.  You're not going to put a junk lens in with what has the potential to be a new standard body for many photographers.. That's like the old "putting $29 speakers on a $2000 receiver" analogy.  There may be some combo deals out there, or if the price tag with a kit kens is $3500 and its a decent lens, maybe the body is back down in the more reasonable range.

Jay S.

The rumor I saw was $3800 Canadian with kit lens. I don't have the link. Some of the forums have no msg body search and I don't want to spend an hour tracking it down. I spent 5 minutes and couldn't find it again quickly.
Poster Palseb on page 27 of this very thread: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3549.msg75606.html#msg75606 (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3549.msg75606.html#msg75606)
Canadian Canon Vendors had a meeting today (Feb 23).  The new 5D will be available in stores at the end of March 2012  in Canada at $3,800 with a lense (do not know which one).
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Picsfor on February 25, 2012, 03:02:27 PM
CR guy probably knows more about the timing these things usually are, but he seems to have disappeared the last couple of days...

That's because Canon have given him his 5D3 back to keep him quiet  :) :)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tt on February 25, 2012, 03:15:35 PM
CR guy probably knows more about the timing these things usually are, but he seems to have disappeared the last couple of days...

That's because Canon have given him his 5D3 back to keep him quiet  :) :)


Or stockists have been getting (NDA'd) news fromeetibgs with Canon, but can't yet share. 
As CR does rental business, I'd imagine he's got to evaluate the new kit from a rental, a personal, and the canonrumors.com (p)review angle. Beyond any personal stuff.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: zim on February 25, 2012, 03:58:06 PM
Or as someone else noted crguy had to return early from his Ecuador trip for personal reasons?
I wouldn’t go to much on this guys
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkrimmer on February 25, 2012, 04:36:58 PM
Canadian Canon Vendors had a meeting today (Feb 23).  The new 5D will be available in stores at the end of March 2012  in Canada at $3,800 with a lense (do not know which one).

does that means the rest of the world have to wait longer? or can we expect a worldwide start at the same day?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: waving_odd on February 25, 2012, 06:36:39 PM
CR guy probably knows more about the timing these things usually are, but he seems to have disappeared the last couple of days...

That's because Canon have given him his 5D3 back to keep him quiet  :) :)


Or stockists have been getting (NDA'd) news fromeetibgs with Canon, but can't yet share.
As CR does rental business, I'd imagine he's got to evaluate the new kit from a rental, a personal, and the canonrumors.com (p)review angle. Beyond any personal stuff.

Or as someone else noted crguy had to return early from his Ecuador trip for personal reasons?
I wouldn’t go to much on this guys

CR Guy has still been active on his FB page (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=328347393878543&set=a.177948552251762.40099.161708613875756&type=1&ref=nf) though for the past couple hours.  And he sounds like he's still optimistic about the launch of 5D III/X next week!   :) :) :)

"...

Keenan ThePhotographer Adams (8 hours ago): Also, when the 5D Mark III/X drops next week, can you go on podcast with that one dude again?? Im sure you guys could talk for an hour.

Canon Rumors (8 hours ago): ‎Keenan It's booked and ready to go later in the week.

...
"
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: BDD on February 25, 2012, 07:18:50 PM
Let's just assume that Canon is on time with the 5D3/X announcement. That we will hear something in the next few days.

As long as they give us what we want. A high MP (45 MP) for that crowd. And a "Low" MP 22MP high native ISO 5D3 for the rest of us. I'll be happy and will be playing my order for a 5D3. I think we've done enough speculating of whether or not we're going to hear something at the start of the work week.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: AG on February 25, 2012, 08:33:14 PM
Quote
People are speculating that $3500 is with kit lens. Users from other forums seem to have evidence.

I'm not sure I've seen any posts about a kit lens, and not sure what lens they would throw in that has enough value to raise to a $3500 price tag.  You're not going to put a junk lens in with what has the potential to be a new standard body for many photographers.. That's like the old "putting $29 speakers on a $2000 receiver" analogy.  There may be some combo deals out there, or if the price tag with a kit kens is $3500 and its a decent lens, maybe the body is back down in the more reasonable range.

Jay S.

The rumor I saw was $3800 Canadian with kit lens. I don't have the link. Some of the forums have no msg body search and I don't want to spend an hour tracking it down. I spent 5 minutes and couldn't find it again quickly.
Poster Palseb on page 27 of this very thread: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3549.msg75606.html#msg75606 (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3549.msg75606.html#msg75606)
Canadian Canon Vendors had a meeting today (Feb 23).  The new 5D will be available in stores at the end of March 2012  in Canada at $3,800 with a lense (do not know which one).

This then lends credibility to the possibility that the body only could be between $2200 and $2500 mark (AUD) if its bundled with the "kit" 24-105mm f4.

That sounds much more reasonable
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: dystorsion on February 25, 2012, 08:33:57 PM
As posted in another thread here, check this out:

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/canon/1050868-something-exciting-coming-canon-singapore-2nd-march.html (http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/canon/1050868-something-exciting-coming-canon-singapore-2nd-march.html)

They mention speed, perhaps a hint about the burst speed?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 25, 2012, 10:31:37 PM
Quote
People are speculating that $3500 is with kit lens. Users from other forums seem to have evidence.

I'm not sure I've seen any posts about a kit lens, and not sure what lens they would throw in that has enough value to raise to a $3500 price tag.  You're not going to put a junk lens in with what has the potential to be a new standard body for many photographers.. That's like the old "putting $29 speakers on a $2000 receiver" analogy.  There may be some combo deals out there, or if the price tag with a kit kens is $3500 and its a decent lens, maybe the body is back down in the more reasonable range.

Jay S.

The rumor I saw was $3800 Canadian with kit lens. I don't have the link. Some of the forums have no msg body search and I don't want to spend an hour tracking it down. I spent 5 minutes and couldn't find it again quickly.
Poster Palseb on page 27 of this very thread: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3549.msg75606.html#msg75606 (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3549.msg75606.html#msg75606)
Canadian Canon Vendors had a meeting today (Feb 23).  The new 5D will be available in stores at the end of March 2012  in Canada at $3,800 with a lense (do not know which one).

This then lends credibility to the possibility that the body only could be between $2200 and $2500 mark (AUD) if its bundled with the "kit" 24-105mm f4.

That sounds much more reasonable

Oh how i wish you were right but based on the history of canon price gouging of us poor aussies I dont think we will see such nice prices :(  :'(
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Daniel Flather on February 25, 2012, 11:24:58 PM
Quote
People are speculating that $3500 is with kit lens. Users from other forums seem to have evidence.

I'm not sure I've seen any posts about a kit lens, and not sure what lens they would throw in that has enough value to raise to a $3500 price tag.  You're not going to put a junk lens in with what has the potential to be a new standard body for many photographers.. That's like the old "putting $29 speakers on a $2000 receiver" analogy.  There may be some combo deals out there, or if the price tag with a kit kens is $3500 and its a decent lens, maybe the body is back down in the more reasonable range.

Jay S.

The rumor I saw was $3800 Canadian with kit lens. I don't have the link. Some of the forums have no msg body search and I don't want to spend an hour tracking it down. I spent 5 minutes and couldn't find it again quickly.

Command find on a Mac, or whatever Windows has these days.  Or the Google search bar will open the option to search the page in iOS.  Might take 10 minutes to search all (as of now) 37 pages.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Musouka on February 26, 2012, 12:03:48 AM
I demand that Canon makes the 5DX Mark III as capable as this sensor video-wise  :P

NHK's new Super Hi-Vision sensor captures 8K at 120fps, fast enough for Usain Bolt? (http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/25/nhk-super-hi-vision-120fps-cmos/)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: simonxu11 on February 26, 2012, 12:56:06 AM
Just heard a rumor guys, the cr3 spec 5d III/x won't be released in the near future because the pressure from Nikon d800, canon will adjust their spec according to d800 so the 5dIII/x will be delayed!

No link and it's a rumor!

You can't just make a statement like this and not provide more info other than "no link and it's a rumor!"  where did you just hear a rumor.  Is it wild speculation from some post in a forum or from a reasonably reliable blog?
Just received a Canon invitation, a major Canon event on 2nd of March in Shanghai,China.
It's called IXUS Night Show

I believe we haven't seen any invitation regards to the CR3 spec 5d which only two days left to be announced.

 
P.S. Canon announced 5D mark II in Shanghai on 23rd of September in 2008
Title: It is Canon 5D X
Post by: canonic on February 26, 2012, 01:30:46 AM
at least kuaddro.com says so:
http://www.kuaddro.com/canon-eos-5dx-name-confirmed/ (http://www.kuaddro.com/canon-eos-5dx-name-confirmed/)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: chengpenguin on February 26, 2012, 02:09:15 AM
Just heard a rumor guys, the cr3 spec 5d III/x won't be released in the near future because the pressure from Nikon d800, canon will adjust their spec according to d800 so the 5dIII/x will be delayed!

No link and it's a rumor!

You can't just make a statement like this and not provide more info other than "no link and it's a rumor!"  where did you just hear a rumor.  Is it wild speculation from some post in a forum or from a reasonably reliable blog?
Just received a Canon invitation, a major Canon event on 2nd of March in Shanghai,China.
It's called IXUS Night Show

I believe we haven't seen any invitation regards to the CR3 spec 5d which only two days left to be announced.

 
P.S. Canon announced 5D mark II in Shanghai on 23rd of September in 2008

There's also invitations to a Canon event in Singapore on 2nd March. Sounds like a global announcement on the same day.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tt on February 26, 2012, 02:21:25 AM
So,
 
Good news - Canon's bringing out a new camera with Wifi, touch screen with improved low light video.
Bad news - It's an IXUS.

?! :D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: ramon123 on February 26, 2012, 05:02:45 AM
Just heard a rumor guys, the cr3 spec 5d III/x won't be released in the near future because the pressure from Nikon d800, canon will adjust their spec according to d800 so the 5dIII/x will be delayed!

No link and it's a rumor!

You can't just make a statement like this and not provide more info other than "no link and it's a rumor!"  where did you just hear a rumor.  Is it wild speculation from some post in a forum or from a reasonably reliable blog?
Just received a Canon invitation, a major Canon event on 2nd of March in Shanghai,China.
It's called IXUS Night Show

I believe we haven't seen any invitation regards to the CR3 spec 5d which only two days left to be announced.

 
P.S. Canon announced 5D mark II in Shanghai on 23rd of September in 2008

There's also invitations to a Canon event in Singapore on 2nd March. Sounds like a global announcement on the same day.

Where is the invite to that announcement in Singapore on the 2nd?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Musouka on February 26, 2012, 05:06:52 AM
It seems that Nikon D800/D800E will see some delays so less pressure on Canon.

Nikon D800E also delayed? (http://nikonrumors.com/2012/02/25/nikon-d800e-also-delayed.aspx)

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Gcon on February 26, 2012, 05:36:05 AM
Any news on whether the 5Dx/III is getting the Direct Print button? That's what keeps me in the Canon camp  :P
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkrimmer on February 26, 2012, 05:47:45 AM
but one thing we should keep in mind: the cr-guy is very confident about the date:

"Announcement on February 27 or 28, 2012"
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: DzPhotography on February 26, 2012, 07:26:38 AM
but one thing we should keep in mind: the cr-guy is very confident about the date:

"Announcement on February 27 or 28, 2012"
He just changed it into March 2nd  :P
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: simonxu11 on February 26, 2012, 07:29:54 AM
but one thing we should keep in mind: the cr-guy is very confident about the date:

"Announcement on February 27 or 28, 2012"
He just changed it into March 2nd  :P
What a great news~~!!!! ;D ;D
It means the rumor I've heard was a bad one!!
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Canon Rumors on February 26, 2012, 07:32:33 AM
Back and forth between February 28 and March 2. Both dates might be good, but I have 100% confirmed the next 5D for March 2. I'll spend today finding out what, if anything is February 28.

Cheers
CR
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Cooljoe57 on February 26, 2012, 07:33:56 AM
Updated to March 2nd? I couldn't wait for the 28th, and now we have to wait LONGER? I JUST CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE. *Puts shotgun to face*
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Gcon on February 26, 2012, 07:34:12 AM
March 2nd? Lock it in - no more changes PLEAAAASSEE!!  I can't take the suspense!!!

Party time on Friday 2nd!!!
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Gcon on February 26, 2012, 07:34:47 AM
Updated to March 2nd? I couldn't wait for the 28th, and now we have to wait LONGER? I JUST CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE. *Puts shotgun to face*

Well played! I belly-laughed
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkrimmer on February 26, 2012, 07:35:31 AM
but one thing we should keep in mind: the cr-guy is very confident about the date:

"Announcement on February 27 or 28, 2012"
He just changed it into March 2nd  :P

Very good timing. I mean my posting, Not the change in the date ;)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkrimmer on February 26, 2012, 07:41:31 AM
Back and forth between February 28 and March 2. Both dates might be good, but I have 100% confirmed the next 5D for March 2. I'll spend today finding out what, if anything is February 28.

Cheers
CR

Do you have more information about prices, kits, availability etc.?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: frisk on February 26, 2012, 07:50:05 AM
What confuses me is the IXUS issue....from another thread:

Quote
Just received a Canon invitation, a major Canon event on 2nd of March in Shanghai,China.
It's called IXUS Night Show

Does it make sense for Canon to announce the 5D3 successor on the same day as thy are having a "major event" for the IXUS series?

I don't know....but as I said, I'm getting a bit confused.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: image2paint on February 26, 2012, 07:55:25 AM
So I'm confused, people with a 5D mark II are about to purchase a $3.5k autofocus LMFAO
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Musouka on February 26, 2012, 07:57:43 AM
I guess the March 2nd date makes sense. Someone mentioned that this March marks the 25th anniversary of the first EOS camera (Canon EOS 650).

Also, 3+2 = 5 (Yeah, we're THAT desperate  :P)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Eosfollower on February 26, 2012, 07:59:23 AM
Back and forth between February 28 and March 2. Both dates might be good, but I have 100% confirmed the next 5D for March 2. I'll spend today finding out what, if anything is February 28.

Cheers
CR

Do you have more information about prices, kits, availability etc.?

+1

wanna know more!!! give us more hints and details!! is the 6.9 fps still valid???

Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: chengpenguin on February 26, 2012, 08:02:45 AM

There's also invitations to a Canon event in Singapore on 2nd March. Sounds like a global announcement on the same day.

Where is the invite to that announcement in Singapore on the 2nd?

A few of us in Singapore got the event invite from Canon directly.

The email mentioned:

Speed. Quality.
How do these matter to you in the world of imaging?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Britman on February 26, 2012, 08:05:26 AM
Is there any word on the battery the new camera will use? There will be a lot of pissed people if they make this camera with a new battery design,  think of all those video people that have banks of batteries.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Tijn on February 26, 2012, 08:10:30 AM
Quote
March 2 will be the date for the 5D replacement.

...Yet it's not sure whether it's called a 5D mk3 or a 5D X?
Also, the word "replacement" is used here - has there been any clarity yet on whether it's going to be a replacement for the 5D mk2 at all? (i.e. the 5D mk2 not being discontinued?)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: psolberg on February 26, 2012, 08:11:20 AM
Is there any word on the battery the new camera will use? There will be a lot of pissed people if they make this camera with a new battery design,  think of all those video people that have banks of batteries.

new japanese regulations regarding batteries will force canon to do what nikon did: new battery designs. expect it. deal with it.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tt on February 26, 2012, 08:11:55 AM
NDA date makes a bit more sense now!
Only a week to go, and maybe a look see at Focus on Sunday :)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tt on February 26, 2012, 08:16:15 AM
Is there any word on the battery the new camera will use? There will be a lot of pissed people if they make this camera with a new battery design,  think of all those video people that have banks of batteries.

new japanese regulations regarding batteries will force canon to do what nikon did: new battery designs. expect it. deal with it.
Is that for exported goods or just goods for sale in Japan?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: simonxu11 on February 26, 2012, 08:48:53 AM
Is there any word on the battery the new camera will use? There will be a lot of pissed people if they make this camera with a new battery design,  think of all those video people that have banks of batteries.

new japanese regulations regarding batteries will force canon to do what nikon did: new battery designs. expect it. deal with it.
Is that for exported goods or just goods for sale in Japan?
In Japan only I think! You still can buy d700 outside Japan. D700 was discontinued in Japan because of the battery issue, but I haven't seen any report of Canon 's products regarding to this issue, so I think canon's batteries are fine with the new regulations
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: adamfilip on February 26, 2012, 08:57:20 AM
Hopefully it gets announced on Feb 28
and ship on march 2nd :)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 26, 2012, 09:00:20 AM
Is there any word on the battery the new camera will use? There will be a lot of pissed people if they make this camera with a new battery design,  think of all those video people that have banks of batteries.

new japanese regulations regarding batteries will force canon to do what nikon did: new battery designs. expect it. deal with it.
Is that for exported goods or just goods for sale in Japan?
In Japan only I think! You still can buy d700 outside Japan. D700 was discontinued in Japan because of the battery issue, but I haven't seen any report of Canon 's products regarding to this issue, so I think canon's batteries are fine with the new regulations

Yes, Nikon can no longer sell the D700 in Japan, but Canon can still sell the 5DII, so the LP-E6 design meets the new safety standards.  The LP-E4 for the 1-series does not, which is why the 1D X will ship with the LP-E4N, but Canon was able to design it so the old LP-E4 will still work in the new 1D X.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Wahoowa on February 26, 2012, 09:10:33 AM
I sure hope that Canon will stick with LP-E6 with the new 5D. I'll continue to use my 7D/60D with the new 5D and I have a bunch of LP-E6 batteries.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: pravkp on February 26, 2012, 09:46:22 AM
Just in case canon change the battery from LP-E6, can i switch to Nikon at least then?
(yes, that would be an awesome reason)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Abraxx on February 26, 2012, 09:46:33 AM
Now the NDA makes sense  ;)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Wahoowa on February 26, 2012, 09:54:06 AM
Just in case canon change the battery from LP-E6, can i switch to Nikon at least then?
(yes, that would be an awesome reason)

Now, that's a valid reason to make a switch. ;D

Seriously though, we all would have no option if Canon changes the battery pack for the new 5D, but it'd be nice if they stick with the old LP-E6.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: pravkp on February 26, 2012, 10:02:42 AM
Just in case canon change the battery from LP-E6, can i switch to Nikon at least then?
(yes, that would be an awesome reason)

Now, that's a valid reason to make a switch. ;D

Seriously though, we all would have no option if Canon changes the battery pack for the new 5D, but it'd be nice if they stick with the old LP-E6.
yeah, even if there is an option, just like in 1D X, it will be a huge plus.. here's to hoping :)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Andrei Morar on February 26, 2012, 10:08:18 AM
Reading the posts in this thread and other links provided I'm convinced the next 5D will be called 5DX, will have 22 mp, pro AF and great image quality both at low ISOs and high ISOs.
I hope they will have the multicontroller on the grip as in the posted images from Kenya. This is a must have feature for me personally. I can't tell you have many time i've cursed my 5d mark ii for not having that. Best way to change the focus point with the grip on and holding the camera in portrait orientation.
Can't wait for March 2nd!
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: EchoLocation on February 26, 2012, 10:27:00 AM
I've been refreshing CR obsessively and reading this thread for days already.....
Now I have to wait for March 2nd!


and then, I just checked the calendar and realized it's a leap year! 29 days in February, What's Next?
D'OH!

I can only hope the price was wrong too!
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Axilrod on February 26, 2012, 10:28:58 AM
Reading the posts in this thread and other links provided I'm convinced the next 5D will be called 5DX, will have 22 mp, pro AF and great image quality both at low ISOs and high ISOs.

Please, tell me with what camera do you have trouble getting quality images at low ISO settings?  I can't think of one camera in Canon's current lineup that produces bad images at low ISOs. 

Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Axilrod on February 26, 2012, 10:36:31 AM
Is there any word on the battery the new camera will use? There will be a lot of pissed people if they make this camera with a new battery design,  think of all those video people that have banks of batteries.

WTF, people are talking about shooting themselves over the additional 2 day wait (jokes, but still), everyone wants the camera to be ridiculously cheap, and now you're complaining that it may use different batteries? 
You have to compromise somewhere and accept that there may be a few things about the camera that you won't like....

I dont give a S___ if it's $4000 body only with a battery no one has, I'm still getting 2 of them and I'm not going to complain like a bitch.
Title: Re: It is Canon 5D X
Post by: BDD on February 26, 2012, 10:39:59 AM
at least kuaddro.com says so:
http://www.kuaddro.com/canon-eos-5dx-name-confirmed/ (http://www.kuaddro.com/canon-eos-5dx-name-confirmed/)

I don't know how accurate this site is but if there is only going to be one version. And it is going to be called the "5D-X" then so be it. For the reasons listed on that site. As long as we get the rumored "5D3" specs (e.g. 22MP, 61-pt AF, 6.x FPS and high native ISO (e.g. 100-12,800 or better yet...100-51,200 as in the 1D-X).

Hope we get some good news on March 2nd...or the night before (just before midnight).
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: pedro on February 26, 2012, 10:48:13 AM
2nd of March. That's 20 days to go for my birthday. These are great times!!! 8)
BTW I was just privileged to open page #40. So, shall we set up a poll at how much this will add up till the 2nd of March?  :P

@CR: Hope you only had to go back for a reason related to the new tech coming.The day you know the announcement will be huge you might post some gear you gonna offer at second hand rates as a hint, let's say: old 24-70, old 5DMkII even though it's not a lens ;D
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: bdeutsch on February 26, 2012, 10:58:21 AM
I was just privileged to open page #40. So, shall we set up a poll at how much this will add up till the 2nd of March?  :P
I'll vote for 80.

Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: docsavage123 on February 26, 2012, 11:11:07 AM
Canon Pro user I know from Belgium Reckons its called the 3D but I could be wrong  :-X Im going to get one anyway whatever its called
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: stefsan on February 26, 2012, 11:15:26 AM
Reading the posts in this thread and other links provided I'm convinced the next 5D will be called 5DX, will have 22 mp, pro AF and great image quality both at low ISOs and high ISOs.

Please, tell me with what camera do you have trouble getting quality images at low ISO settings?  I can't think of one camera in Canon's current lineup that produces bad images at low ISOs.

Rather often when lighting conditions are not superb and I shoot at 400 ISO I'm not overwhelmed with the image quality delivered by my 7D. Pictures often have quite high levels of noise and a murky look to them. Since I only shoot RAW I can fix most of these problems in DPP and PS but I would definitely love to get cleaner pictures with more vibrant colours.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: zim on February 26, 2012, 11:25:52 AM
I remember when ISO 25 was low and 400 was for desperate types sigh….  :-\
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 26, 2012, 11:39:31 AM
Reading the posts in this thread and other links provided I'm convinced the next 5D will be called 5DX, will have 22 mp, pro AF and great image quality both at low ISOs and high ISOs.
I hope they will have the multicontroller on the grip as in the posted images from Kenya. This is a must have feature for me personally. I can't tell you have many time i've cursed my 5d mark ii for not having that. Best way to change the focus point with the grip on and holding the camera in portrait orientation.
Can't wait for March 2nd!
Quote
March 2 will be the date for the 5D replacement.

...Yet it's not sure whether it's called a 5D mk3 or a 5D X?
Also, the word "replacement" is used here - has there been any clarity yet on whether it's going to be a replacement for the 5D mk2 at all? (i.e. the 5D mk2 not being discontinued?)

They will be merging the 5D and 7D lines to get the sporting fuction into a ff sensor
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: pedro on February 26, 2012, 11:41:38 AM
5D-7D merge. Sounds perfect for me.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: distant.star on February 26, 2012, 12:09:07 PM
I remember when ISO 25 was low and 400 was for desperate types sigh….  :-\

That makes me smile!

I just shot a couple rolls of B&W ISO400, and it felt like digital 3200 or more.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: distant.star on February 26, 2012, 12:23:03 PM
Is there any word on the battery the new camera will use? There will be a lot of pissed people if they make this camera with a new battery design,  think of all those video people that have banks of batteries.

WTF, people are talking about shooting themselves over the additional 2 day wait (jokes, but still), everyone wants the camera to be ridiculously cheap, and now you're complaining that it may use different batteries? 
You have to compromise somewhere and accept that there may be a few things about the camera that you won't like....

I dont give a S___ if it's $4000 body only with a battery no one has, I'm still getting 2 of them and I'm not going to complain like a bitch.

Yep, sometimes I just laugh and think the average poster here must be a member of the menopause brigade!
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 26, 2012, 12:32:17 PM
Quote
People are speculating that $3500 is with kit lens. Users from other forums seem to have evidence.

I'm not sure I've seen any posts about a kit lens, and not sure what lens they would throw in that has enough value to raise to a $3500 price tag.  You're not going to put a junk lens in with what has the potential to be a new standard body for many photographers.. That's like the old "putting $29 speakers on a $2000 receiver" analogy.  There may be some combo deals out there, or if the price tag with a kit kens is $3500 and its a decent lens, maybe the body is back down in the more reasonable range.

Jay S.

The rumor I saw was $3800 Canadian with kit lens. I don't have the link. Some of the forums have no msg body search and I don't want to spend an hour tracking it down. I spent 5 minutes and couldn't find it again quickly.

Command find on a Mac, or whatever Windows has these days.  Or the Google search bar will open the option to search the page in iOS.  Might take 10 minutes to search all (as of now) 37 pages.

someone else already tracked it down, to page 27 of this thread

Honestly, I already saw it and it was just a rumor so whether I repeated it or someone saw the first person who type it hear I didn't see how it mattered anyway and, as I said, just a total rumor anyway, so I didn't feel like wasting even 10 minutes on it myself (and since I thought I had seen it on a different forum it may have taken me a bit longer than 10 minutes to find it  anyway ;D).
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 26, 2012, 12:33:35 PM
but one thing we should keep in mind: the cr-guy is very confident about the date:

"Announcement on February 27 or 28, 2012"
He just changed it into March 2nd  :P

I wonder how solid the 22MP,6.9fps, simplified non-1DX AF rumor is then. Maybe not at all?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 26, 2012, 12:34:14 PM
I hope they will have the multicontroller on the grip as in the posted images from Kenya. This is a must have feature for me personally. I can't tell you have many time i've cursed my 5d mark ii for not having that. Best way to change the focus point with the grip on and holding the camera in portrait orientation.

I also hope the battery grip has a second multicontroller to match the ergonomics of the 1D X.  I'd love to have that feature on my 7D.  It would merely be a nice to have on my 5DII, since the outer AF points aren't very good, I don't select an off-center point too frequently. But hopefully the new 5D will have useful off-center points, to be accessed by the joystick on the grip.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 26, 2012, 12:34:41 PM
Updated to March 2nd? I couldn't wait for the 28th, and now we have to wait LONGER? I JUST CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE. *Puts shotgun to face*

Don't forget the extra day due to leap year too!!!!!
 ;D
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 26, 2012, 12:36:44 PM
March 2nd? Lock it in - no more changes PLEAAAASSEE!!  I can't take the suspense!!!

Party time on Friday 2nd!!!

Wouldn't this be the first time they have ever had a major announcement on a Friday? Usually they want to announce earlier in the week to get all the traffic of people web surfing during work  ;D and a weekend announcement is sort of like they are hiding the new release in shame?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 26, 2012, 12:38:22 PM

There's also invitations to a Canon event in Singapore on 2nd March. Sounds like a global announcement on the same day.

Where is the invite to that announcement in Singapore on the 2nd?

A few of us in Singapore got the event invite from Canon directly.

The email mentioned:

Speed. Quality.
How do these matter to you in the world of imaging?

Answer: They don't, which is why you just showed up to an IXUS event!  ;D
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Jay_S on February 26, 2012, 12:38:37 PM
If you are happy with the 7D then that is good  8) 8) 8)

I will stick to my series 1  8) 8) 8)

Quote
the AF locks on SOOO much faster.
Quote
Irrelevant if the 7D is as fast as you need it to be

When I argued from this point for the 5D2 there was a flurry of activity from the 7D fans who criticised the AF on the 5D2 labelling it disatrous - and I got 30 smites in response.

For BIF/sports etc the AF needs to lock as quick as possible - even my old 1Ds3 out performs the 7D from this point of view. I had 2 7Ds which I used alongside the 1D4 and I wouldn't go back to the simplified AF system on the 7D.

I am hoping that the next 5D has a better AF than the 7D and hopefully as good or better than the 1Ds3. With the series 1 style AF cross-type focusing on all 39 AF points works with the 17-40 and 24-105 which is excellent news considering he popularity of those lens. For studio work the 7D style spot AF might be useful if it could be selected seperately from a normal AF point without changing a Custom function

Other things I would like from the series 1:

- Spot metering linked to the AF points. With 39 AF points it is easier to compose with the AF point where you need it - and get the metering correct at that point

- multispot metering - means tricky objects such as a wedding dress can be exposed correctly

- up to 7 shot bracketing for those difficult light shots/hdr  with +-3 stop with variable AEB amount. Sequence to be done through holding down the shutter whilst in continuous drive mode

Can't agree with you regarding 7D focusing and speed. I shoot sports and any combination of zones and AI focus along with the FPS of the 7D make it excellent for sports and BIF.  I'm not discounting the 1D family, just that the 7D has been stellar for me.

There's some discussion about the 5D iii being a blend of the 7D and 5Dii.  That may be fine if you can only have one body, but it is going to take more than just "better" focusing on the 5Diii to make me not consider picking up a 5Dii at discounted prices to complement my 7D, after which I'll sell off a 20D and convert a 40D to IR.  Batteries on 5Dii and 7D are the same, one would be my "outdoor, sports" camera (and part time portrait, landscape, etc.) and the 5Dii would slide very nicely into more traditional portrait and landscape...

For me, the 5Diii would have to being a lot more of the technology innovation to image quality, not so much about speed.  The big hitters for me are much better dynamic range for a single shot (less HDR need), an order of magnitude better noise handling at higher ISO, although again, in portrait work, how often are you shooting in very high ISOs?

We just don't know enough about the innards right now, but from some of the specs on the front page, the major points are not pointing to IQ..  Just have to see if Canon DID have some new sensor technology in the works to somewhat match Nikon's latest offering, but I'm afraid we may still be one generation away from that and that the 5Diii will be a nice upgrade to the 5Dii, but not a wholesale technology swap.

Jay S.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 26, 2012, 01:02:01 PM


For BIF/sports etc the AF needs to lock as quick as possible - even my old 1Ds3 out performs the 7D from this point of view. I had 2 7Ds which I used alongside the 1D4 and I wouldn't go back to the simplified AF system on the 7D.

I am hoping that the next 5D has a better AF than the 7D and hopefully as good or better than the 1Ds3. With the series 1 style AF cross-type focusing on all 39 AF points works with the 17-40 and 24-105 which is excellent news considering he popularity of those lens. For studio work the 7D style spot AF might be useful if it could be selected seperately from a normal AF point without changing a Custom fu

Can't agree with you regarding 7D focusing and speed. I shoot sports and any combination of zones and AI focus along with the FPS of the 7D make it excellent for sports and BIF.  I'm not discounting the 1D family, just that the 7D has been stellar for me.


I dont understand what you dont agree with? I didn't say anything against the 7D speed and focussing :o :o :o

Perhaps you need a dayout with a series 1 so that you understand the extra capability of the series 1. I have converted 3 7D shooters so far by lending them my 1D4 - I came from the 7D so I am aware of how good the 7D was in comparison to the the 50D (in my case). The move to the series 1 was a whole new experience  on all levels
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: distant.star on February 26, 2012, 01:12:12 PM
I've mentioned before a contact I have here. Usually I see him at the local taproom. He has a contact in Tibet; they communicate using the Internet.

Last night, over a couple of boilermakers, he told me Tibet can't commit to a date or camera name, but he is certain they will be releasing this new blockbuster camera in an array of "brilliant international colors." Quite a departure for the high end camera market.

Some of the new colors he mentioned:

Pacific Pearl

Sierra Silverlode

Riviera Razzle Dazzle

Mt. Fuji Fuchsia

Jersey Tomato

Sapporo Saphire

Mumbai Mango

Barcelona Blonde

Helsinki Heliotrope

Toronto Topaz

Vancouver Vermilion


I think this is big news -- and Tibet rarely gets it wrong!

Looks like a colorful year for Canon.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Jay_S on February 26, 2012, 01:15:51 PM


For BIF/sports etc the AF needs to lock as quick as possible - even my old 1Ds3 out performs the 7D from this point of view. I had 2 7Ds which I used alongside the 1D4 and I wouldn't go back to the simplified AF system on the 7D.

I am hoping that the next 5D has a better AF than the 7D and hopefully as good or better than the 1Ds3. With the series 1 style AF cross-type focusing on all 39 AF points works with the 17-40 and 24-105 which is excellent news considering he popularity of those lens. For studio work the 7D style spot AF might be useful if it could be selected seperately from a normal AF point without changing a Custom fu

Can't agree with you regarding 7D focusing and speed. I shoot sports and any combination of zones and AI focus along with the FPS of the 7D make it excellent for sports and BIF.  I'm not discounting the 1D family, just that the 7D has been stellar for me.


I dont understand what you dont agree with? I didn't say anything against the 7D speed and focussing :o :o :o

Perhaps you need a dayout with a series 1 so that you understand the extra capability of the series 1. I have converted 3 7D shooters so far by lending them my 1D4 - I came from the 7D so I am aware of how good the 7D was in comparison to the the 50D (in my case). The move to the series 1 was a whole new experience  on all levels

Brian..  I took if from the one line in the post:

"I had 2 7Ds which I used alongside the 1D4 and I wouldn't go back to the simplified AF system on the 7D."

The 7D focusing is not simplified, in fact was the first Canon offering to add that much significant function at the price point it is.  I said there I had nothing against the 1Dx, but there is a large difference in price between the two bodies.  Maybe just semantics.

Jay S.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: pedro on February 26, 2012, 01:17:09 PM
at distant.star: will there be a Siam Sunset...LOL
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Jackson_Bill on February 26, 2012, 01:20:28 PM
I'm so tired of hearing people flip flopping and getting up on their soap box and announcing "Canon loses" or "I'm going to Nikon". How does it REALLY matter?

Hell, the most moving and memorable images burned into the minds of most people on our planet, let's say "Top 100 photos of all time", are most likely ALL film. Taken decades (or longer) ago, on cameras that are laughable compared to ANYTHING we have now. In terms of features, abilities and technology, even usability and reliability. What does that say, truly, about GOOD photography that MATTERS?

Are you a photographer, or are you a tech head who actually doesn't REQUIRE any of this because it the D800, 1DX, D4, or digital Hassleblad won't make your images truly any better.

???



I for one, based on these rumored specs, are OK with the 5D Mark III. Assuming they're even real specs. I make a living off of photography, I do various types. Mostly portraits, some fashion and beauty, and documentary work (along with weddings in the summer months). I also print my work, large, for galleries and clients, on various mediums such as photo paper, canvas and fine art materials (even metal and wood once).

We don't know the DR, we don't know the ISO, and we don't a ton of other stuff, let alone the ACTUAL specs (again, this is a rumor, a CR3'd rumor, but still a rumor).

It's just so hilarious to sit here for days, have a coffee, read through some rumors, see what other photographers are saying about them... you get a few different types of people really. The most comical is the person, on any forum really, who types up a bunch of garbage about switching systems, or being so fed up with the changes, or lack of changes. OK, fine. How in the world is any other camera going to make your photos better? How is getting the 5D3, or NOT, going to make you a better photographer? The D800E, D800, 1Dx, D4? Answer: it won't help.

The reason why, on twitter and other bigger forums, you don't see the seasoned pros or working photographers complaining about much, is because they understand this simple notion. You get caught up in all the gear talk, and all the #s, and it truly, at the end of the day, doesn't mean much. The reason we get new cameras, and want to "upgrade" is because we can, and because sometimes it gives us new tools, and it's fun to have new things that we truly love, like cameras and lenses. But we never should lie to ourselves and say or believe that owning the 5D3, or a PhaseOne, or D4 is going to make us a better photographer.

No one is going to look back on their career, put up a gallery show and say "right here, this is when you can tell I got the 5D3, or switched to the D800, it shows in my work". Blah blah blah.


I don't even believe most of what I read when you have someone boasting about changing sides or "needing" something MORE, MORE MORE! Always MORE!

No one is ever truly happy, right? I say.... I can't wait for what Canon, Nikon or anyone else brings us. If we can properly use any of these tools, then let's go for it, but let's not pretend it means much more.

My 5D2 has been through hell, I bought it the month it was on the market. It's so banged up and wonderfully used. My back up is an old 40D, which I never use, and has had some problems before. I don't trust it. Getting a 5D3, or the 1Dx makes sense for me in a lot of ways, but I'm not going to pretend it is going to make me a better photographer, or make my work more accessible to clients or galleries.

You are entitled to your opinion but I strongly disagree with it and your ranting about people "boasting about changing sides", and "...needing something MORE MORE MORE...".
I am one of those people who are disappointed with the approach Canon took with the 5D3  (assuming the rumors are true) and I consider the Nikon D800 a significant improvement for the wildlife photography that I do. A full frame sensor with a higher pixel density would give me the flexibility to take wider shots than I can get with my 7D and 500mm lens in some cases and still crop to bring up a long shot in others. So yes, even though my first SLR was an F-1 and I've got a lot of money sunk into Canon lenses, I might consider a jump to Nikon if the rumors turn out to be true. Its got nothing to do with "making me a better photographer" - it's just about getting with a company that's taking the technology in the direction I want to go. As was mentioned in CR some time ago, Canon COULD make a high megapixel FF but they HAVE NOT. Maybe they will someday, but then again, maybe they won't.
My point in posting was to (hopefully) let Canon (assuming that anyone at Canon reads CR) know how I (and I suspect others) feel.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Tijn on February 26, 2012, 01:21:10 PM
Last night, over a couple of boilermakers, he told me Tibet can't commit to a date or camera name, but he is certain they will be releasing this new blockbuster camera in an array of "brilliant international colors." Quite a departure for the high end camera market.

Some of the new colors he mentioned:

Pacific Pearl

Sierra Silverlode

Riviera Razzle Dazzle

Mt. Fuji Fuchsia

Jersey Tomato

Sapporo Saphire

Mumbai Mango

Barcelona Blonde

Helsinki Heliotrope

Toronto Topaz

Vancouver Vermilion


I think this is big news -- and Tibet rarely gets it wrong!

Looks like a colorful year for Canon.
A scene from the film "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" springs to... mind. In that scene, the girl with the brightly coloured hair is discussing the names of hair dye colours with a man (played by Jim Carrey). She insists that someone must have the job of coming up with crazy names for them, such as "Blue Ruin", "Red Menace" or "Green Fever". And she says that she wants that job.

The colours you mention here sound similarly ridiculous... "Barcelona Blonde", "Vancouver Vermillion"? ...Wow.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 26, 2012, 01:31:48 PM
Brian..  I took if from the one line in the post:

"I had 2 7Ds which I used alongside the 1D4 and I wouldn't go back to the simplified AF system on the 7D."

The 7D focusing is not simplified, in fact was the first Canon offering to add that much significant function at the price point it is.  I said there I had nothing against the 1Dx, but there is a large difference in price between the two bodies.  Maybe just semantics.

Jay S.

With all respects Jay I think you have understood me. I was comparing the 7D AF with the 1D4 AF and in comparison the 7D is a much simplified system (it did come after the series 1 AF)

The 7D is an excellent camera at its price point - probably the best bang for your buck across the whole range and I have no issues with it. However I have moved on to series 1 and it is a whole different world - and I wont be going back
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: SebSic on February 26, 2012, 01:32:27 PM
You are entitled to your opinion but I strongly disagree with it and your ranting about people "boasting about changing sides", and "...needing something MORE MORE MORE...".
I am one of those people who are disappointed with the approach Canon took with the 5D3  (assuming the rumors are true) and I consider the Nikon D800 a significant improvement for the wildlife photography that I do. A full frame sensor with a higher pixel density would give me the flexibility to take wider shots than I can get with my 7D and 500mm lens in some cases and still crop to bring up a long shot in others. So yes, even though my first SLR was an F-1 and I've got a lot of money sunk into Canon lenses, I might consider a jump to Nikon if the rumors turn out to be true. Its got nothing to do with "making me a better photographer" - it's just about getting with a company that's taking the technology in the direction I want to go. As was mentioned in CR some time ago, Canon COULD make a high megapixel FF but they HAVE NOT. Maybe they will someday, but then again, maybe they won't.
My point in posting was to (hopefully) let Canon (assuming that anyone at Canon reads CR) know how I (and I suspect others) feel.

So you are not happy with your 7D?
Bad image quality ?
It is not because Rocco Siffredi has a bigger than yours, he will make love better ...
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 26, 2012, 01:36:48 PM
You are entitled to your opinion but I strongly disagree with it and your ranting about people "boasting about changing sides", and "...needing something MORE MORE MORE...".
I am one of those people who are disappointed with the approach Canon took with the 5D3  (assuming the rumors are true) and I consider the Nikon D800 a significant improvement for the wildlife photography that I do. A full frame sensor with a higher pixel density would give me the flexibility to take wider shots than I can get with my 7D and 500mm lens in some cases and still crop to bring up a long shot in others. So yes, even though my first SLR was an F-1 and I've got a lot of money sunk into Canon lenses, I might consider a jump to Nikon if the rumors turn out to be true. Its got nothing to do with "making me a better photographer" - it's just about getting with a company that's taking the technology in the direction I want to go. As was mentioned in CR some time ago, Canon COULD make a high megapixel FF but they HAVE NOT. Maybe they will someday, but then again, maybe they won't.
My point in posting was to (hopefully) let Canon (assuming that anyone at Canon reads CR) know how I (and I suspect others) feel.

So you are not happy with your 7D?
Bad image quality ?
It is not because Rocco Siffredi has a bigger than yours, he will make love better ...

I always thought wildlife shooters liked to shoot faster :o :o :o

Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tt on February 26, 2012, 01:51:07 PM
I've mentioned before a contact I have here.... he is certain they will be releasing this new blockbuster camera in an array of "brilliant international colors."
I think this is big news -- and Tibet rarely gets it wrong!

Looks like a colorful year for Canon.

IXUS perhaps? :)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Drama79 on February 26, 2012, 02:28:00 PM
Yeah, the invites I've seen online for the March 2nd event make it look like an IXUS only deal. Does CR guy (or anyone else) know fo' sho' that the 5D X is making an appearance?
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Jackson_Bill on February 26, 2012, 02:33:11 PM
... SNIP ...
A full frame sensor with a higher pixel density would give me the flexibility to take wider shots than I can get with my 7D and 500mm lens in some cases and still crop to bring up a long shot in others.
...SNIP ...

So you are not happy with your 7D?
Bad image quality ?
It is not because Rocco Siffredi has a bigger than yours, he will make love better ...

I always thought wildlife shooters liked to shoot faster :o :o :o

SebSic - I didn't say I was unhappy with my 7D - I just wish Canon had gone the way of the D800, for the reasons I noted.

briansquibb - LOL.

Seriously, though, as we all know there are trade-offs to be considered. The bigger pixels with higher DR  and ISO vs. more of them so you can crop a long shot and still get a reasonable sized print. I can understand why Canon went the way they did (again assuming the rumors are true) but I'd rate things differently, based on my experience.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: DJL329 on February 26, 2012, 02:39:54 PM
... SNIP ...
A full frame sensor with a higher pixel density would give me the flexibility to take wider shots than I can get with my 7D and 500mm lens in some cases and still crop to bring up a long shot in others.
...SNIP ...

So you are not happy with your 7D?
Bad image quality ?
It is not because Rocco Siffredi has a bigger than yours, he will make love better ...

I always thought wildlife shooters liked to shoot faster :o :o :o

SebSic - I didn't say I was unhappy with my 7D - I just wish Canon had gone the way of the D800, for the reasons I noted.

briansquibb - LOL.

Seriously, though, as we all know there are trade-offs to be considered. The bigger pixels with higher DR  and ISO vs. more of them so you can crop a long shot and still get a reasonable sized print. I can understand why Canon went the way they did (again assuming the rumors are true) but I'd rate things differently, based on my experience.

I very much doubt Canon will allow Nikon to be the only one with a high MP dSLR (especially if it is successful).  The 5D X may be 22MP, as the rumors suggest, so we may finally see the "mythical" 3D as the competitor to the D800.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Drama79 on February 26, 2012, 02:40:46 PM
In fact, I'm calling it - there's no 5D announcement this week. The March 2nd event is an Ixus event.

I really hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. Invites are out, no mention of the 5, just a whole heap of hopeful punters.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: MaGiL on February 26, 2012, 02:46:48 PM
In fact, I'm calling it - there's no 5D announcement this week. The March 2nd event is an Ixus event.

I really hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. Invites are out, no mention of the 5, just a whole heap of hopeful punters.

I hope you're wrong too  ;) But i'm afraid you're right.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: photochemist on February 26, 2012, 02:59:31 PM
I'm so tired of hearing people flip flopping and getting up on their soap box and announcing "Canon loses" or "I'm going to Nikon". How does it REALLY matter?

Hell, the most moving and memorable images burned into the minds of most people on our planet, let's say "Top 100 photos of all time", are most likely ALL film. Taken decades (or longer) ago, on cameras that are laughable compared to ANYTHING we have now. In terms of features, abilities and technology, even usability and reliability. What does that say, truly, about GOOD photography that MATTERS?

Are you a photographer, or are you a tech head who actually doesn't REQUIRE any of this because it the D800, 1DX, D4, or digital Hassleblad won't make your images truly any better.

???



I for one, based on these rumored specs, are OK with the 5D Mark III. Assuming they're even real specs. I make a living off of photography, I do various types. Mostly portraits, some fashion and beauty, and documentary work (along with weddings in the summer months). I also print my work, large, for galleries and clients, on various mediums such as photo paper, canvas and fine art materials (even metal and wood once).

We don't know the DR, we don't know the ISO, and we don't a ton of other stuff, let alone the ACTUAL specs (again, this is a rumor, a CR3'd rumor, but still a rumor).

It's just so hilarious to sit here for days, have a coffee, read through some rumors, see what other photographers are saying about them... you get a few different types of people really. The most comical is the person, on any forum really, who types up a bunch of garbage about switching systems, or being so fed up with the changes, or lack of changes. OK, fine. How in the world is any other camera going to make your photos better? How is getting the 5D3, or NOT, going to make you a better photographer? The D800E, D800, 1Dx, D4? Answer: it won't help.

The reason why, on twitter and other bigger forums, you don't see the seasoned pros or working photographers complaining about much, is because they understand this simple notion. You get caught up in all the gear talk, and all the #s, and it truly, at the end of the day, doesn't mean much. The reason we get new cameras, and want to "upgrade" is because we can, and because sometimes it gives us new tools, and it's fun to have new things that we truly love, like cameras and lenses. But we never should lie to ourselves and say or believe that owning the 5D3, or a PhaseOne, or D4 is going to make us a better photographer.

No one is going to look back on their career, put up a gallery show and say "right here, this is when you can tell I got the 5D3, or switched to the D800, it shows in my work". Blah blah blah.


I don't even believe most of what I read when you have someone boasting about changing sides or "needing" something MORE, MORE MORE! Always MORE!

No one is ever truly happy, right? I say.... I can't wait for what Canon, Nikon or anyone else brings us. If we can properly use any of these tools, then let's go for it, but let's not pretend it means much more.

My 5D2 has been through hell, I bought it the month it was on the market. It's so banged up and wonderfully used. My back up is an old 40D, which I never use, and has had some problems before. I don't trust it. Getting a 5D3, or the 1Dx makes sense for me in a lot of ways, but I'm not going to pretend it is going to make me a better photographer, or make my work more accessible to clients or galleries.

You are entitled to your opinion but I strongly disagree with it and your ranting about people "boasting about changing sides", and "...needing something MORE MORE MORE...".
I am one of those people who are disappointed with the approach Canon took with the 5D3  (assuming the rumors are true) and I consider the Nikon D800 a significant improvement for the wildlife photography that I do. A full frame sensor with a higher pixel density would give me the flexibility to take wider shots than I can get with my 7D and 500mm lens in some cases and still crop to bring up a long shot in others. So yes, even though my first SLR was an F-1 and I've got a lot of money sunk into Canon lenses, I might consider a jump to Nikon if the rumors turn out to be true. Its got nothing to do with "making me a better photographer" - it's just about getting with a company that's taking the technology in the direction I want to go. As was mentioned in CR some time ago, Canon COULD make a high megapixel FF but they HAVE NOT. Maybe they will someday, but then again, maybe they won't.
My point in posting was to (hopefully) let Canon (assuming that anyone at Canon reads CR) know how I (and I suspect others) feel.

Well said Bill. I agree with you.

I can think back about the photos that never saw the light of day because cropping caused pixelation. They were great shots but I didn't have the 800mm lens to get in close. With a 40+ MP camera I would have been able to crop them. So if more pixels results in better photos I would say that improves my photography.

For those that want higher fps at the cost of lower mp they have every right to wish for that. In my photography I have no need for high fps so give me all the mp you can. I will wait until Canon makes it so.

Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Musouka on February 26, 2012, 03:32:51 PM
I think it's almost guaranteed we'll get a new 5D between Feb 28th & March 2nd now that CR is reporting a probable price drop for the 5D2 (starting March 4th):

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=3634.0 (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=3634.0)
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Chuck Alaimo on February 26, 2012, 03:58:55 PM
I'm so tired of hearing people flip flopping and getting up on their soap box and announcing "Canon loses" or "I'm going to Nikon". How does it REALLY matter?

Hell, the most moving and memorable images burned into the minds of most people on our planet, let's say "Top 100 photos of all time", are most likely ALL film. Taken decades (or longer) ago, on cameras that are laughable compared to ANYTHING we have now. In terms of features, abilities and technology, even usability and reliability. What does that say, truly, about GOOD photography that MATTERS?

Are you a photographer, or are you a tech head who actually doesn't REQUIRE any of this because it the D800, 1DX, D4, or digital Hassleblad won't make your images truly any better.

???



I for one, based on these rumored specs, are OK with the 5D Mark III. Assuming they're even real specs. I make a living off of photography, I do various types. Mostly portraits, some fashion and beauty, and documentary work (along with weddings in the summer months). I also print my work, large, for galleries and clients, on various mediums such as photo paper, canvas and fine art materials (even metal and wood once).

We don't know the DR, we don't know the ISO, and we don't a ton of other stuff, let alone the ACTUAL specs (again, this is a rumor, a CR3'd rumor, but still a rumor).

It's just so hilarious to sit here for days, have a coffee, read through some rumors, see what other photographers are saying about them... you get a few different types of people really. The most comical is the person, on any forum really, who types up a bunch of garbage about switching systems, or being so fed up with the changes, or lack of changes. OK, fine. How in the world is any other camera going to make your photos better? How is getting the 5D3, or NOT, going to make you a better photographer? The D800E, D800, 1Dx, D4? Answer: it won't help.

The reason why, on twitter and other bigger forums, you don't see the seasoned pros or working photographers complaining about much, is because they understand this simple notion. You get caught up in all the gear talk, and all the #s, and it truly, at the end of the day, doesn't mean much. The reason we get new cameras, and want to "upgrade" is because we can, and because sometimes it gives us new tools, and it's fun to have new things that we truly love, like cameras and lenses. But we never should lie to ourselves and say or believe that owning the 5D3, or a PhaseOne, or D4 is going to make us a better photographer.

No one is going to look back on their career, put up a gallery show and say "right here, this is when you can tell I got the 5D3, or switched to the D800, it shows in my work". Blah blah blah.


I don't even believe most of what I read when you have someone boasting about changing sides or "needing" something MORE, MORE MORE! Always MORE!

No one is ever truly happy, right? I say.... I can't wait for what Canon, Nikon or anyone else brings us. If we can properly use any of these tools, then let's go for it, but let's not pretend it means much more.

My 5D2 has been through hell, I bought it the month it was on the market. It's so banged up and wonderfully used. My back up is an old 40D, which I never use, and has had some problems before. I don't trust it. Getting a 5D3, or the 1Dx makes sense for me in a lot of ways, but I'm not going to pretend it is going to make me a better photographer, or make my work more accessible to clients or galleries.

You are entitled to your opinion but I strongly disagree with it and your ranting about people "boasting about changing sides", and "...needing something MORE MORE MORE...".
I am one of those people who are disappointed with the approach Canon took with the 5D3  (assuming the rumors are true) and I consider the Nikon D800 a significant improvement for the wildlife photography that I do. A full frame sensor with a higher pixel density would give me the flexibility to take wider shots than I can get with my 7D and 500mm lens in some cases and still crop to bring up a long shot in others. So yes, even though my first SLR was an F-1 and I've got a lot of money sunk into Canon lenses, I might consider a jump to Nikon if the rumors turn out to be true. Its got nothing to do with "making me a better photographer" - it's just about getting with a company that's taking the technology in the direction I want to go. As was mentioned in CR some time ago, Canon COULD make a high megapixel FF but they HAVE NOT. Maybe they will someday, but then again, maybe they won't.
My point in posting was to (hopefully) let Canon (assuming that anyone at Canon reads CR) know how I (and I suspect others) feel.

Well said Bill. I agree with you.

I can think back about the photos that never saw the light of day because cropping caused pixelation. They were great shots but I didn't have the 800mm lens to get in close. With a 40+ MP camera I would have been able to crop them. So if more pixels results in better photos I would say that improves my photography.

For those that want higher fps at the cost of lower mp they have every right to wish for that. In my photography I have no need for high fps so give me all the mp you can. I will wait until Canon makes it so.

Wow is this one a loaded reply to a loaded reply to a loaded reply!  Given the rumored specs of the mkiii, this may not be the camera for wildlife photographers!  Maybe for now Canon isn't concerning itself with such a small niche.  Is this a bad thing?  Well, maybe it is for a wildlife photog.  But, if your a wedding photog, these specs fit the needs and then some....

I happen to totally agreee with the quoted post though too.  A good photographer is not defined by his or hger equipment, but rather by the images they create. Granted yes, with a 45 MP sensor, you can get away with taking a single frame image and printing it huge - but, you could do the same with a stitched panoramic, print it huge, stand it side by side with the 45 mp one and dare folks to tell the difference.   

 
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jrista on February 26, 2012, 04:08:29 PM
5D-7D merge. Sounds perfect for me.

For me to.
To get this it will need 46MP + some improvement so lets say 62MP double the Nikon. If it make 3.5 FPS at full resolution we should get 5FPS at crop 1.2, 7FPS at crop 1.4 and 9FPS at crop 1.6. It's not reasonable to expect higher FPS but include a 1.8 and 2 crop mode anyway.

I am not sure if you are just being sarcastic, but you realize that at 62mp, not more than 2-3 lenses in Canon's entire lineup could resolve enough detail at any aperture to actually use all those pixels, right? You max out at 46mp, which is about 116lp/mm, which is right about where Canon's newest L-series lenses top out at their best aperture as well...which seems to be somewhere between f/4 and f/5.6 most of the time. The only few lenses from Canon that I think could resolve enough detail for 62mp are the new 500mm and 600mm L II lenses (which as of yet are still unreleased) and possibly the forthcoming 200-400 L...and even then, their maximum aperture is f/4, so 173lp/mm.
Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Jackson_Bill on February 26, 2012, 04:16:11 PM
...SNIP...

I happen to totally agreee with the quoted post though too.  A good photographer is not defined by his or hger equipment, but rather by the images they create. Granted yes, with a 45 MP sensor, you can get away with taking a single frame image and printing it huge - but, you could do the same with a stitched panoramic, print it huge, stand it side by side with the 45 mp one and dare folks to tell the difference.   

 

Chuck - No argument about a photographer being defined by his/her images but I have to say - a "stitched panoramic" is NOT going to happen with moving animals.


Title: Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Chuck Alaimo on February 26, 2012, 04:32:25 PM
...SNIP...

I happen to totally agreee with the quoted post though too.  A good photographer is not defined by his or hger equipment, but rather by the images they create. Granted yes, with a 45 MP sensor, you can get away with taking a single frame image and printing it huge - but, you could do the same with a stitched panoramic, print it huge, stand it side by side with the 45 mp one and dare folks to tell the difference.   

 

Chuck - No argument about a photographer being defined by his/her images but I have to say - a "stitched panoramic" is NOT going to happen with moving animals.

True, that was more about landscapes.  the point is more about intended market for this new body.  I think its market audience is wedding photographers, so low mp, fast AF, high ISO is what wedding togs are looking for.  That's not to say canon won't release a body that would be more geared towards the landscape wildlife crowd. It's the good old jack of all trades master of none -if this camera is the low light beast it's desired to be, then i think while it will piss some off, it will make others really happy, and thats better than trying to please everyone, and disappointing everyone...
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: daveswan on February 26, 2012, 04:43:17 PM
Just to throw a bucket of cold water over this overheated thread....

What if this annopuncement was for a .......


World-shaking, game-changing. . . . .



Wait for it . . . . .












PHOTOCOPIER  >:(





It's happened before >:(












He he let's see how many smites I get for this :evil grin:
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: pakosouthpark on February 26, 2012, 04:44:20 PM
In fact, I'm calling it - there's no 5D announcement this week. The March 2nd event is an Ixus event.

I really hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. Invites are out, no mention of the 5, just a whole heap of hopeful punters.

I hope you're wrong too  ;) But i'm afraid you're right.

oh nooo, so no camera either on the 2nd???  :-\
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: D_Rochat on February 26, 2012, 04:52:28 PM
(http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/flogging_dead_horse_what.jpg)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Jackson_Bill on February 26, 2012, 05:02:24 PM
LOL and point taken.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 26, 2012, 05:53:19 PM
(http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/flogging_dead_horse_what.jpg)

ROFL that pic made my morning, its a bit like our governement at the moment too :(
+1 Karma for a good laugh :)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: entertainer on February 26, 2012, 06:22:49 PM
nah. its for a DSLR.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Lee Jay on February 26, 2012, 06:30:13 PM
I am not sure if you are just being sarcastic, but you realize that at 62mp, not more than 2-3 lenses in Canon's entire lineup could resolve enough detail at any aperture to actually use all those pixels, right?

I'm really sick of people saying this sort of thing, since it's totally false.

Here's what the full-frame version of 184MP looks like on the old 100-400L (18MP 1.6-crop + 2x TC = 72MP on 1.6 crop = 184MP on full-frame)

http://photos.imageevent.com/sipphoto/samplepictures/T2i__3574%20edited.jpg (http://photos.imageevent.com/sipphoto/samplepictures/T2i__3574%20edited.jpg)

Yeah, in the corners of many lenses you're going to start having trouble at higher pixel densities, but you're still going to get more detail than you would with less pixel density.  You can't add pixels and get a less detailed shot, and on the better lenses, you're going to get more and more detailed.

Here's 288MP on crop (18MP + 4x = 18*4*4 = 288) or 737MP (288*1.6*1.6) on full-frame through the 400/2.8L (the old one):

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=37493247 (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=37493247)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: atompate on February 26, 2012, 06:34:17 PM
Cant wait to find out! Im wondering if there will be any mentions about the future CinemaEos DSLR...
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 26, 2012, 06:57:47 PM

I am not sure if you are just being sarcastic, but you realize that at 62mp, not more than 2-3 lenses in Canon's entire lineup could resolve enough detail at any aperture to actually use all those pixels, right? You max out at 46mp, which is about 116lp/mm, which is right about where Canon's newest L-series lenses top out at their best aperture as well...which seems to be somewhere between f/4 and f/5.6 most of the time. The only few lenses from Canon that I think could resolve enough detail for 62mp are the new 500mm and 600mm L II lenses (which as of yet are still unreleased) and possibly the forthcoming 200-400 L...and even then, their maximum aperture is f/4, so 173lp/mm.

I don't believe that is the case. I thought some lenses were measured well above that. Plus the total resolution is a combination of sensor and lens that is not direct. Even the worst kit ever made delivers a more detailed image on a 7D than a 40D. A 70-200 + 1.4x TC still delivers more detail on a 7D. A 300 2.8 + TWO TCs still does on a 7D too.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Gcon on February 26, 2012, 07:12:37 PM
Rather often when lighting conditions are not superb and I shoot at 400 ISO I'm not overwhelmed with the image quality delivered by my 7D. Pictures often have quite high levels of noise and a murky look to them. Since I only shoot RAW I can fix most of these problems in DPP and PS but I would definitely love to get cleaner pictures with more vibrant colours.

That's my experience exactly with the 7D. Essentially that's how it is when you pack too many pixels in too small an area. Very disappointed by the IQ of that camera - the rest of the functionality is great though. Good for its price point but can't compete with a full frame on IQ.  I'm pinning my hopes on a 5Dx that combines the best of 7D (or even some 1Dx features like AF) with that of the 5D Mark II.  I'll sell my 7D and 5DMarkII and get a couple of 5Dx bodies :)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Fleetie on February 26, 2012, 07:49:32 PM
Rather often when lighting conditions are not superb and I shoot at 400 ISO I'm not overwhelmed with the image quality delivered by my 7D. Pictures often have quite high levels of noise and a murky look to them. Since I only shoot RAW I can fix most of these problems in DPP and PS but I would definitely love to get cleaner pictures with more vibrant colours.

That's my experience exactly with the 7D. Essentially that's how it is when you pack too many pixels in too small an area. Very disappointed by the IQ of that camera - the rest of the functionality is great though. Good for its price point but can't compete with a full frame on IQ.  I'm pinning my hopes on a 5Dx that combines the best of 7D (or even some 1Dx features like AF) with that of the 5D Mark II.  I'll sell my 7D and 5DMarkII and get a couple of 5Dx bodies :)

I would be VERY interested to read the responses of those who say that pixel size does NOT affect noise in images, and that it is only sensor area that matters.

Does that claim survive reductio ad absurdum?  I think not.

I like my 7D, and it is a way better camera than I am a photographer. Yes, it gets noisy by ISO 1600 and especially beyond that, but it is still an excellent camera.

I will get the 5D3 if it ever becomes available before I die. But that doesn't make the 7D a bad camera, especially given that it's 2.5 years old. In that context, it's excellent.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Lee Jay on February 26, 2012, 08:10:51 PM
I would be VERY interested to read the responses of those who say that pixel size does NOT affect noise in images, and that it is only sensor area that matters.

It is.  Well, smaller pixels help a bit too.

And, yes, I have an 18MP 1.6-crop sensor in the form of a T2i.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 26, 2012, 08:15:19 PM
Rather often when lighting conditions are not superb and I shoot at 400 ISO I'm not overwhelmed with the image quality delivered by my 7D. Pictures often have quite high levels of noise and a murky look to them. Since I only shoot RAW I can fix most of these problems in DPP and PS but I would definitely love to get cleaner pictures with more vibrant colours.

That's my experience exactly with the 7D. Essentially that's how it is when you pack too many pixels in too small an area. Very disappointed by the IQ of that camera - the rest of the functionality is great though. Good for its price point but can't compete with a full frame on IQ.  I'm pinning my hopes on a 5Dx that combines the best of 7D (or even some 1Dx features like AF) with that of the 5D Mark II.  I'll sell my 7D and 5DMarkII and get a couple of 5Dx bodies :)

I would be VERY interested to read the responses of those who say that pixel size does NOT affect noise in images, and that it is only sensor area that matters.

Does that claim survive reductio ad absurdum?  I think not.

No, it does not, but then again we are not dealing with that in the real world and 22MP vs 18MP vs 36MP is anything but reductio ad absurdum.  And again, don't forget that specialized NR is much better than simplistic 'bins' due to lower MP count.

Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: scokar on February 26, 2012, 08:58:20 PM
...

I like my 7D, and it is a way better camera than I am a photographer. Yes, it gets noisy by ISO 1600 and especially beyond that, but it is still an excellent camera.

I will get the 5D3 if it ever becomes available before I die. But that doesn't make the 7D a bad camera, especially given that it's 2.5 years old. In that context, it's excellent.

The 7D is not a bad camera.  I  don't like the nature of the images it takes.

My 40D was "ok" but first started a trend that carried into my 50D and then the 7D. 

The main difference across these generations was more pixels, same space.

To me, pixel size impacts the quality of the image generated. 
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Radiating on February 26, 2012, 10:06:10 PM
With regard to people discussing the issue of pixel size versus noise, in modern sensors there are two issues and associated technologies which collaborate to eliminate the problem almost entirely.

Specifically micro lenses and back lit sensor technology. To actually have separate pixels you have to physically separate them with "walls" this was a big issue which impacted noise until the advent of micro lenses. These essentially magnify the incoming light so that none of it is wasted hitting anything but photo sensitive material and bend it around non-photo sensitive material. The second issue is that sensors for whatever reason have all their wiring on top instead of on the bottom at certain points that wiring can block enough light to affect noise, back lit sensors are wired under the photo cells not above, which solves this issue.

In any case though DSLR sensor technology is far from using the most advanced sensor tech possible. In fact DSLRs use some of the least advanced sensors made because they have a lot of light gathering area. Compact cameras use the most advanced sensors because economies of scale and extremely small sensors make it cost effective to do so.

Canon's most light sensitive sensor is found on a compact camera not a DSLR. If Canon used it's most advanced sensor tech in a full frame sensor it would output 210 megapixels, and have identical noise to the D3s, which is still almost a stop better than the 5DII.

So no technically speaking increases in resolution do not correlate with noise.

The problem is though that ECONOMICALLY speaking resolution does correlate with noise. Having advanced sensor technology is expensive and so is having high resolution. Two cameras one with high resolution and one with low noise would probably could be made for less than one camera which has both. That is why there is often a trade off, otherwise the sensor costs way too much to manufacture.

Canon actually used some of the least advanced sensor technology possible in the 5DII so it will be easy to make it leaps and bounds better in noise with increased resolution. At the least you can expect a quarter of a stop improvement in noise. At best you can expect a full stop. Likely it will be a half stop improvement. 
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: EchoLocation on February 27, 2012, 01:09:39 AM
the only invite i've seen for a Canon event in the next few days clearly headlined the "IXUS" lineup at the center of the invitation.
I'm starting to believe that is all we will see.
Why would they announce a 5DX/III with a headline of "IXUS"?

On other invitations for big DSLR releases, the nature of the invite was much more mysterious and dramatic.... why would an IXUS headline the invitation and the next 5D be an afterthought......
I really, really hope that i'm wrong or there is other invitations/events I don't know about.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: scottsdaleriots on February 27, 2012, 01:11:34 AM
for that much money i cannot justify buying that camera. Maybe if it was a MP monster then ok i'll def consider it. too expensive canon for us struggling photography students out there!! >:(
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: simonxu11 on February 27, 2012, 01:20:05 AM
the only invite i've seen for a Canon event in the next few days clearly headlined the "IXUS" lineup at the center of the invitation.
I'm starting to believe that is all we will see.
Why would they announce a 5DX/III with a headline of "IXUS"?

On other invitations for big DSLR releases, the nature of the invite was much more mysterious and dramatic.... why would an IXUS headline the invitation and the next 5D be an afterthought......
I really, really hope that i'm wrong or there is other invitations/events I don't know about.
Do you have a link or pciture of the invitation??thanks
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: malchick743 on February 27, 2012, 03:05:41 AM
the only invite i've seen for a Canon event in the next few days clearly headlined the "IXUS" lineup at the center of the invitation.
I'm starting to believe that is all we will see.
Why would they announce a 5DX/III with a headline of "IXUS"?

On other invitations for big DSLR releases, the nature of the invite was much more mysterious and dramatic.... why would an IXUS headline the invitation and the next 5D be an afterthought......
I really, really hope that i'm wrong or there is other invitations/events I don't know about.
Do you have a link or pciture of the invitation??thanks
+1 I want to see that invite too...

In fact, have been wondering if there will be a press launch in my area this Friday also but there's no one I can speak to.  Inquiries to local tech press people will definitely run straight into the brickwall.  Local photo forums are generally crap speak and I find those site useless.

Craig@CR rarely leaks media event information in open domain, unlike Peter@NR.  Why?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: chengpenguin on February 27, 2012, 03:50:12 AM
Craig@CR rarely leaks media event information in open domain, unlike Peter@NR.  Why?

I guess to safeguard their own reputation... Professional ethics also. :p
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Musouka on February 27, 2012, 04:02:07 AM
Sorry, guys. Nokia has officially won the MP race  :P

Nokia 808 Pure View Phone Has a 41-Megapixel Camera. FORTY-ONE ACTUAL MEGAPIXELS. (http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/02/nokia-808-clear-view-phone-has-a-41-megapixel-camera-forty-one-actual-megapixels/)

(http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/nokia8082.jpg)

That's it... goodbye Canon  ::)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: eosbit on February 27, 2012, 04:11:51 AM
the only invite i've seen for a Canon event in the next few days clearly headlined the "IXUS" lineup at the center of the invitation.
I'm starting to believe that is all we will see.
Why would they announce a 5DX/III with a headline of "IXUS"?

On other invitations for big DSLR releases, the nature of the invite was much more mysterious and dramatic.... why would an IXUS headline the invitation and the next 5D be an afterthought......
I really, really hope that i'm wrong or there is other invitations/events I don't know about.
Do you have a link or pciture of the invitation??thanks

http://www.canon.com.au/About-Canon/News-Events/News-Press-Releases/New-IXUS-Wi-Fi-connectivity (http://www.canon.com.au/About-Canon/News-Events/News-Press-Releases/New-IXUS-Wi-Fi-connectivity)

Canon announced their latest IXUS on the 7th of Feb.. surely there's not another IXUS announcement within a month?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Cooljoe57 on February 27, 2012, 04:12:45 AM
Sorry, guys. Nokia has officially won the MP race  :P

Nokia 808 Pure View Phone Has a 41-Megapixel Camera. FORTY-ONE ACTUAL MEGAPIXELS. (http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/02/nokia-808-clear-view-phone-has-a-41-megapixel-camera-forty-one-actual-megapixels/)

(http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/nokia8082.jpg)

That's it... goodbye Canon  ::)


(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/045/n725075089_288918_2774.jpg)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: malchick743 on February 27, 2012, 04:22:14 AM
I guess to safeguard their own reputation... Professional ethics also. :p
What professional ethics?

IMO There's not much of a reputation when it comes to rumors/leaks sites.  At least most company PRs won't welcome like this kind of information siphoning.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: EchoLocation on February 27, 2012, 04:54:33 AM
the only invite i've seen for a Canon event in the next few days clearly headlined the "IXUS" lineup at the center of the invitation.
I'm starting to believe that is all we will see.
Why would they announce a 5DX/III with a headline of "IXUS"?

On other invitations for big DSLR releases, the nature of the invite was much more mysterious and dramatic.... why would an IXUS headline the invitation and the next 5D be an afterthought......
I really, really hope that i'm wrong or there is other invitations/events I don't know about.
Do you have a link or pciture of the invitation??thanks
+1 I want to see that invite too...

In fact, have been wondering if there will be a press launch in my area this Friday also but there's no one I can speak to.  Inquiries to local tech press people will definitely run straight into the brickwall.  Local photo forums are generally crap speak and I find those site useless.

Craig@CR rarely leaks media event information in open domain, unlike Peter@NR.  Why?
I have spent a while today searching for the image I saw and I cant find it anywhere. It definitely has been seen by people in other forums, I saw it randomly searching rumors websites i hardly ever visit late last night
people are talking about it in post 4057 and 4067 here
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=13968571&highlight=ixus#post13968571 (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=13968571&highlight=ixus#post13968571)
it was on the front page of a totally random photo website, and seemed to be what CR guy was talking about. It said nothing but "speed" "quality" "IXUS" and some other non descript stuff. it wasn't very dramatic and was very colorful. I wasn't very excited when i saw it. I wish I could find it again, if someone has the link i'd appreciate it too as I'm going a little crazy right now trying to figure out where I saw it.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Tijn on February 27, 2012, 05:31:20 AM
Sorry, guys. Nokia has officially won the MP race  :P

Nokia 808 Pure View Phone Has a 41-Megapixel Camera. FORTY-ONE ACTUAL MEGAPIXELS. (http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/02/nokia-808-clear-view-phone-has-a-41-megapixel-camera-forty-one-actual-megapixels/)

(http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/nokia8082.jpg)

That's it... goodbye Canon  ::)
Wow. I know they're Zeiss lenses, but can such a small thing really outresolve 41mpx?  :-X
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: michaelrcruz on February 27, 2012, 06:10:58 AM
Could this image be true???

Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkrimmer on February 27, 2012, 06:12:46 AM
Could this image be true???

I'm sure Photoshop could make that possible :)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: pravkp on February 27, 2012, 06:17:22 AM
Could this image be true???

Fake. The "III" is placed at an odd angle next to "Mark". I say poor photoshop skills :)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: michaelrcruz on February 27, 2012, 06:19:26 AM
Have you guys seen that EOS logo/badge before?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: chengpenguin on February 27, 2012, 06:32:26 AM
Could this image be true???

Seems highly plausible. It looks like a combination of 7D design and 5D logo.

And the missing popup flash button suggest it is a model without inbuilt flash.

Perhaps this is it :)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkrimmer on February 27, 2012, 06:36:09 AM
Perhaps this is it :)

very small body for a 5d, isn't it?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: michaelrcruz on February 27, 2012, 06:38:27 AM
Could this image be true???

Seems highly plausible. It looks like a combination of 7D design and 5D logo.

And the missing popup flash button suggest it is a model without inbuilt flash.

Perhaps this is it :)

This image actually came from a reliable source... Just can't believe he actually have one! (i mean if its indeed true)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkrimmer on February 27, 2012, 06:42:56 AM
This image actually came from a reliable source... Just can't believe he actually have one! (i mean if its indeed true)

then ask him more about the details :)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: pravkp on February 27, 2012, 06:43:07 AM
Have you guys seen that EOS logo/badge before?

I haven't.
I just did a quick check on canon website and what i observed was the openings pattern for the microphone in the photo is definitely different. None of the current canon bodies have such a pattern! hmm..
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: AUGS on February 27, 2012, 06:44:15 AM
Could this image be true???

Seems highly plausible. It looks like a combination of 7D design and 5D logo.

And the missing popup flash button suggest it is a model without inbuilt flash.

Perhaps this is it :)
Agreed.  This is definitely plausible.  This could be in keeping with the Kenyan prototype keeping the 7D styling/layout.
The other thing that is interesting is the 5 hole microphone port.  I think all existing cameras with video have a 4 hole port.  Could be wrong, but this is definitely plausible.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tt on February 27, 2012, 06:45:43 AM
No depth of field preview button on the front?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: chengpenguin on February 27, 2012, 06:55:34 AM
Have you guys seen that EOS logo/badge before?

I haven't.
I just did a quick check on canon website and what i observed was the openings pattern for the microphone in the photo is definitely different. None of the current canon bodies have such a pattern! hmm..

Actually, it follows 7D's design...
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: BennyJ on February 27, 2012, 06:59:26 AM
No depth of field preview button on the front?

I'm sure it's on the other side (same as 60d for example)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: plam_1980 on February 27, 2012, 07:00:47 AM
Could this image be true???

The "Mark III" sign looks photoshopped, but all the rest... No DOF preview button, microphone, 5D tag... Maybe we have something here!!! Please, give us more info!

On a side note, the hype here is slowly passing into hysteria :)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: pravkp on February 27, 2012, 07:02:47 AM
Have you guys seen that EOS logo/badge before?

I haven't.
I just did a quick check on canon website and what i observed was the openings pattern for the microphone in the photo is definitely different. None of the current canon bodies have such a pattern! hmm..

Actually, it follows 7D's design...

what i meant was the number of holes #5 versus other bodies (#4 on 7d)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: michaelrcruz on February 27, 2012, 07:03:42 AM
Posted a new more convincing picture here:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3654.0.html (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3654.0.html)


looks pretty real to me!
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Gcon on February 27, 2012, 08:20:25 AM
I'm dissapointed by those holes on the front - that doesn't look to water resistant. I will probably tape them up. Also I'm dissapointed by the 5D line seemingly still not getting a built-in eyepiece cover. That really sucks. the crappy little rubber thing they give you on the neck strap is really tacky and hard to put on, and means it's easy to lose your eyepiece, and a right pain when you have to put it on and off repeatedly.   Nikon D700 has had this for a long time. 3 years wait for a glorified 7D with a full frame sensor?

Quite frankly I was hoping for more - a lot more.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: CJRodgers on February 27, 2012, 08:26:05 AM
I'm dissapointed by those holes on the front - that doesn't look to water resistant. I will probably tape them up. Also I'm dissapointed by the 5D line seemingly still not getting a built-in eyepiece cover. That really sucks. the crappy little rubber thing they give you on the neck strap is really tacky and hard to put on, and means it's easy to lose your eyepiece, and a right pain when you have to put it on and off repeatedly.   Nikon D700 has had this for a long time. 3 years wait for a glorified 7D with a full frame sensor?

Quite frankly I was hoping for more - a lot more.

Do you mean the microphone holes? The 1d x has some as well, and thats meant to be waterproof. Its not too hard to seal them so they should be waterproof.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Axilrod on February 27, 2012, 11:49:02 AM
I'm dissapointed by those holes on the front - that doesn't look to water resistant. I will probably tape them up. Also I'm dissapointed by the 5D line seemingly still not getting a built-in eyepiece cover. That really sucks. the crappy little rubber thing they give you on the neck strap is really tacky and hard to put on, and means it's easy to lose your eyepiece, and a right pain when you have to put it on and off repeatedly.   Nikon D700 has had this for a long time. 3 years wait for a glorified 7D with a full frame sensor?

Quite frankly I was hoping for more - a lot more.

Sorry you're disappointed, could you head over to Nikonrumors and stop wasting bandwidth?  I dont get all these people complaining about how much they hate the camera and then sticking around to keep positing.  Go and switch to Nikon already.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on February 27, 2012, 11:58:11 AM
I'm dissapointed by those holes on the front - that doesn't look to water resistant. I will probably tape them up. Also I'm dissapointed by the 5D line seemingly still not getting a built-in eyepiece cover. That really sucks. the crappy little rubber thing they give you on the neck strap is really tacky and hard to put on, and means it's easy to lose your eyepiece, and a right pain when you have to put it on and off repeatedly.   Nikon D700 has had this for a long time. 3 years wait for a glorified 7D with a full frame sensor?

Quite frankly I was hoping for more - a lot more.

Do you mean the microphone holes? The 1d x has some as well, and thats meant to be waterproof. Its not too hard to seal them so they should be waterproof.

Also the 7D has the holes and it's been praised for it's weathersealing...
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Brad Trent on February 27, 2012, 04:30:14 PM
I've talked to Canon reps for the past couple of years about what the next 5-series body would be like, and they always act like they're guarding the secret to cold fusion. Getting any kind of straight answer out of them has been impossible and honestly, it kind of pissed me off. As a working pro, knowing what 'might' be in the pipeline could really help me in my business and when your own rep can't tell you anything, the frustration you begin to feel makes any kind of brand loyalty secondary. At the last Photo Expo in New York when all anybody wanted to talk about was the 1Dx launch, there were a lot of guys like me feeling extremely left out by Canon. It's not too much to say that the 1Dx, while a very nice machine, is not the ideal body for the majority of photographers out there and that doesn't have anything to do with what it costs. But Canon was so hopped up about their new toy that any questions about what the 5D mkII's replacement might be like were met with a stony wall of silence.

So without any information coming directly from Canon, like everyone else I've recently been following all the leaks about the 5D Mark III or 5Dx or whatever they plan to call the thing. Whether any of them are true or not ain't gonna really change my life since I spend most of my time with my face pressed firmly against a Hasselblad with a Leaf back, but if Canon does stick to their guns and keep the new model's pixel count at the 22MP range, it will probably be the thing to push me back to Nikon after more than 20 years of being a Canon guy. I was very happy with the first 1Ds...for what it was...but moved to the 5D Mark II for obvious reasons, even though it has a fair number of shortcomings...the focusing system being my main concern. If Canon does have a new 61 autofocus point system in the new model it will help, but for a guy like me who constantly compares the files that pop outta my Leaf back to the less-groovy versions that the Canon spits out, then the Nikon D800...with it's 36.3 MP chip...is looking better and better all the time. And I get that if you're a news guy or a sports guy the lower megapixel count on the new 1Dx is less important than the high capture rate and better ISO range. Likewise, I also fully understand that for the majority of jobs, the 5D's 22MP capture is gonna be just 'fine'. But I really could give a damn about 'fine'. All things being equal, if I compare two DSLR's capturing 14-bit images, if one is using a 22MP chip and the other has a 36.3MP chip, I'm pretty sure I know which one is gonna come out on top.  I'm gonna give the D800 a test drive, and if it does what I think it is capable of, I'll sell off my small but capable collection of Canon bodies and glass and pick up similar stuff with a Nikon badge. Like I said, my loyalty to Canon has its limits, and since they seem to think that 22MP is all a guy like me needs, then I'm sorry, but I think they're wrong.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tooslick2k on February 27, 2012, 04:41:20 PM
I'm dissapointed by those holes on the front - that doesn't look to water resistant. I will probably tape them up. Also I'm dissapointed by the 5D line seemingly still not getting a built-in eyepiece cover. That really sucks. the crappy little rubber thing they give you on the neck strap is really tacky and hard to put on, and means it's easy to lose your eyepiece, and a right pain when you have to put it on and off repeatedly.   Nikon D700 has had this for a long time. 3 years wait for a glorified 7D with a full frame sensor?

Quite frankly I was hoping for more - a lot more.

Sorry you're disappointed, could you head over to Nikonrumors and stop wasting bandwidth?  I dont get all these people complaining about how much they hate the camera and then sticking around to keep positing.  Go and switch to Nikon already.

+1  That is verbatim what I was thinking!
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: silat shooters on February 27, 2012, 04:45:25 PM
I think we'll see a high meg body from Canon at Photokina.  I think they probably realize that the demand is there for one.  So don't jump ship so quickly. 

The selling of your glass and rebuying in Nikon mount, gets expensive.  I'll bet Canon has something more than 36 megs in late August.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 27, 2012, 05:16:04 PM
...if I compare ... a 22MP chip and the other has a 36.3MP chip, I'm pretty sure I know which one is gonna come out on top.  ... I'll sell off my small but capable collection of Canon bodies and glass and pick up similar stuff with a Nikon Nokia badge.

...because if 36 MP is better than 22 MP, then 41 MP must be even better!  Plus, no more fussing about with all those heavy, expensive lenses, and you still get to use Zeiss glass...  :P
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Kernuak on February 27, 2012, 05:22:13 PM
Could this image be true???

Seems highly plausible. It looks like a combination of 7D design and 5D logo.

And the missing popup flash button suggest it is a model without inbuilt flash.

Perhaps this is it :)
Agreed.  This is definitely plausible.  This could be in keeping with the Kenyan prototype keeping the 7D styling/layout.
The other thing that is interesting is the 5 hole microphone port.  I think all existing cameras with video have a 4 hole port.  Could be wrong, but this is definitely plausible.
There's going to be 7 on the 7D MkII, they might have problems with the 70D though, especially with the weather sealing :P. As for the 650D, it's going to look like someone took a shotgun to it.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mike f2 on February 27, 2012, 05:31:52 PM
Hi ALL,

This is my First Post and I do Hope this gets to Canon or someone in the Know.. and I dont mean any offence to anyone..

BUT... most of you are extolling the OHHH got to have it and these features are worth it.. THERE IS A FULL ON RECESSION On out there..

I am looking for my first and probably last DSLR.. and Ive chosen Canon..CORRECTION I did choose Canon..

My decision was based on I work In Media live Broadcasting and have gone from vision engineer to trainee Video cameraman in 2 Years.. and Ive decided to learn the job properly and to do that I feel I need to start with STILLS  and perfect that alongside Video work..Sorry if am boring you all but am old fashioned and if I do something I do it right..

 Therefore I was looking at the 7D and at a stretch a 5D mk II.. reasons were get something good and develop with it..not swap and change.. then the 5D Mk III has appeared on the horizon..

BUT
The high price thats been banded is Not justifyable.. take a step back and look.. Canon release a slightly improved camera at greatly inflated prices, sell a shed load to the must have new brigade or the canon pros get em at greatly discounted prices for the product to be seen out on the street then when its sales figures start to drop the price falls..ready for the next model.. and to be honest most on here are actually helping Canon Improve there sales by justifying the price.. Listen to YOURSELVES !!

START realising and take a stance.. SAY NO (IEI)  TO Canon s Pricing structure and Demand a reasonable price to new product Pricing for Loyalty..to the Canon brand.. its you who can do this..

I have managed to get £1500-£2000 together towards  a decent Camera  BUT I WILL NOT give that money away ..SO am now going to Look at some NIKON (spit) hardware as well

SO CANON THIS MIGHT BE ONE SALE YOU HAVE LOST..

M (DISAPPOINTED..)

Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 27, 2012, 05:56:03 PM
Hi ALL,

This is my First Post and I do Hope this gets to Canon or someone in the Know.. and I dont mean any offence to anyone..

BUT... most of you are extolling the OHHH got to have it and these features are worth it.. THERE IS A FULL ON RECESSION On out there..

I am looking for my first and probably last DSLR.. and Ive chosen Canon..CORRECTION I did choose Canon..

My decision was based on I work In Media live Broadcasting and have gone from vision engineer to trainee Video cameraman in 2 Years.. and Ive decided to learn the job properly and to do that I feel I need to start with STILLS  and perfect that alongside Video work..Sorry if am boring you all but am old fashioned and if I do something I do it right..

 Therefore I was looking at the 7D and at a stretch a 5D mk II.. reasons were get something good and develop with it..not swap and change.. then the 5D Mk III has appeared on the horizon..

BUT
The high price thats been banded is Not justifyable.. take a step back and look.. Canon release a slightly improved camera at greatly inflated prices, sell a shed load to the must have new brigade or the canon pros get em at greatly discounted prices for the product to be seen out on the street then when its sales figures start to drop the price falls..ready for the next model.. and to be honest most on here are actually helping Canon Improve there sales by justifying the price.. Listen to YOURSELVES !!

START realising and take a stance.. SAY NO (IEI)  TO Canon s Pricing structure and Demand a reasonable price to new product Pricing for Loyalty..to the Canon brand.. its you who can do this..

I have managed to get £1500-£2000 together towards  a decent Camera  BUT I WILL NOT give that money away ..SO am now going to Look at some NIKON (spit) hardware as well

SO CANON THIS MIGHT BE ONE SALE YOU HAVE LOST..

M (DISAPPOINTED..)

Well £1500 buys a 5D2. 5D3 doesn't have a price yet - nor do we have any specs - so which Nikon will you compare it with??

It is no good comparing msrp to the street price unless you want to be an early buyer. Used 7Ds are now at less than £900 - why not buy one of those in the interim until street prices and specifications/performance is known?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mike f2 on February 27, 2012, 06:15:41 PM
Hi Brian,

Yeah I know I could but .. some of the money is a bit of a living legacy from my dad and the camera will not be changed  later on for anything.. (tho hopefully raising more cash..as we speak..)

I've been researching Canon Cameras since before Xmas as they came highly recommended by friends who work commercially with Canon equipment and I (we) use canon lenses on the broadcast video cams.

So just feeling a bit raw with all this speculation regarding the price.. and I think I will look at comparible cameras that offer similar IQ around a particular pricepoint.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 27, 2012, 06:25:19 PM
Hi Brian,

Yeah I know I could but .. some of the money is a bit of a living legacy from my dad and the camera will not be changed  later on for anything.. (tho hopefully raising more cash..as we speak..)

I've been researching Canon Cameras since before Xmas as they came highly recommended by friends who work commercially with Canon equipment and I (we) use canon lenses on the broadcast video cams.

So just feeling a bit raw with all this speculation regarding the price.. and I think I will look at comparible cameras that offer similar IQ around a particular pricepoint.

The price on the street will not be the same as the msrp

We wont be able to compare IQ until the specs have been announced and review done. There is nothing to say that the Nikon will come out best (far from it as already stories of high noise are circulating).

How will you compare a 5DIII with a D800 - they are totally different cameras

d800 - high mps, low fps, high iso? high noise?

5DIII - (guesing) - lower mps, higher fps, high iso, low noise

If you cant buy tactically - then I would recommend waiting for 3(?) months till the market settles down and you can make a balanced decision
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Brad Trent on February 27, 2012, 06:25:54 PM
Quote
...because if 36 MP is better than 22 MP, then 41 MP must be even better!  Plus, no more fussing about with all those heavy, expensive lenses, and you still get to use Zeiss glass...  :P

Well...let's not let common sense get in the way of a good argument! I'm sure the new Nokia phone will get lotsa kids excited, but why don't we stay on point?!!

The simple fact is that 36MP is better than 22MP and there is no logical reason to believe otherwise. I've watched Canon let its long-held lead in the professional digital race get whittled down by both Nikon and Sony over the past few years and really don't care to stick around while other camera makers come out with better products.

If more megapixels were not producing better results, then why the continuing escalation in digital back technology? I own a Leaf Aptus 75S...it's bloody marvelous with its 33 megapixels...but only a fool would say that the 80 megapixel Aptus II 12 doesn't give much better results. Do I need to upgrade (to the tune of $35 Grand) to the 80MP back right now...no...but I know eventually I probably will because there will be enough of my clients that will come to expect it. But when it comes to me jumping to a Nikon system if it means the images the D800 produces are better in quality that what I now get outta my 5D, I'd do that without much prodding. I could sell all of my Canon gear and move into a Nikon system with the same glass for an investment of maybe a few grand. Do I want to change systems? Not particularly, but Canon isn't exactly making it easy to stick around. As for the theory that we'll see BIG THINGS at Photokina...I can't plan my business on maybes! If Canon came out tomorrow and said that yes, they have a high-megapixel body in the pipeline that will compete with the D800, I'm pretty sure it would go a long way to make other guys like me wait around a bit longer, but as I said before, getting them to confirm anything is impossible. Maybe the Canon fanboys can put up with that kinda logic, but I really don't have the time or interest any more...
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 27, 2012, 06:35:10 PM
Quote
...because if 36 MP is better than 22 MP, then 41 MP must be even better!  Plus, no more fussing about with all those heavy, expensive lenses, and you still get to use Zeiss glass...  :P

Well...let's not let common sense get in the way of a good argument! I'm sure the new Nokia phone will get lotsa kids excited, but why don't we stay on point?!!

The simple fact is that 36MP is better than 22MP and there is no logical reason to believe otherwise. I've watched Canon let its long-held lead in the professional digital race get whittled down by both Nikon and Sony over the past few years and really don't care to stick around while other camera makers come out with better products.

If more megapixels were not producing better results, then why the continuing escalation in digital back technology? I own a Leaf Aptus 75S...it's bloody marvelous with its 33 megapixels...but only a fool would say that the 80 megapixel Aptus II 12 doesn't give much better results. Do I need to upgrade (to the tune of $35 Grand) to the 80MP back right now...no...but I know eventually I probably will because there will be enough of my clients that will come to expect it. But when it comes to me jumping to a Nikon system if it means the images the D800 produces are better in quality that what I now get outta my 5D, I'd do that without much prodding. I could sell all of my Canon gear and move into a Nikon system with the same glass for an investment of maybe a few grand. Do I want to change systems? Not particularly, but Canon isn't exactly making it easy to stick around. As for the theory that we'll see BIG THINGS at Photokina...I can't plan my business on maybes! If Canon came out tomorrow and said that yes, they have a high-megapixel body in the pipeline that will compete with the D800, I'm pretty sure it would go a long way to make other guys like me wait around a bit longer, but as I said before, getting them to confirm anything is impossible. Maybe the Canon fanboys can put up with that kinda logic, but I really don't have the time or interest any more...

Mps requirement is dependant on the output produced.

I suspect that 36mp wont give  a better image than 21mp for wedding photograpers with a max print of 20 x 16
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: unfocused on February 27, 2012, 06:41:45 PM
Quote
The high price thats been banded is Not justifyable.. take a step back and look.. Canon release a slightly improved camera at greatly inflated prices, sell a shed load to the must have new brigade or the canon pros get em at greatly discounted prices for the product to be seen out on the street then when its sales figures start to drop the price falls..ready for the next model.. and to be honest most on here are actually helping Canon Improve there sales by justifying the price.. Listen to YOURSELVES !!

START realising and take a stance.. SAY NO (IEI)  TO Canon s Pricing structure and Demand a reasonable price to new product Pricing for Loyalty..to the Canon brand.. its you who can do this..

I have managed to get £1500-£2000 together towards  a decent Camera  BUT I WILL NOT give that money away ..SO am now going to Look at some NIKON (spit) hardware as well

I'm not a "Canon or nothing" person, but I must say, I don't think your reasoning is very sound.

I am not that familiar with the exchange rates, but I don't believe you can get a new D800 from Nikon for the price you are seeking, nor will you likely be able to get a new 5D III for that price. As far as the next levels down, both Canon and Nikon have a full line of APS-C sensor cameras including their top-of-the-line models within that price range (I believe). And, both are competitively priced to one another (I think the 7D gives you quite a bit more camera for less cost actually). Likewise, it sounds as though both companies intend to offer their previous models (the 5D II and the D700) at significantly reduced but similar prices.

If you are upset that your budgeted amount won't buy you the latest full-frame models from either manufacturer...well...we all have budget limitations. They are both likely to be out of my price range as well. But, then again, so are BMWs and so are Rolex watches. Kind of, just the way life is, isn't it?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 27, 2012, 06:48:36 PM
Quote
The high price thats been banded is Not justifyable.. take a step back and look.. Canon release a slightly improved camera at greatly inflated prices, sell a shed load to the must have new brigade or the canon pros get em at greatly discounted prices for the product to be seen out on the street then when its sales figures start to drop the price falls..ready for the next model.. and to be honest most on here are actually helping Canon Improve there sales by justifying the price.. Listen to YOURSELVES !!

START realising and take a stance.. SAY NO (IEI)  TO Canon s Pricing structure and Demand a reasonable price to new product Pricing for Loyalty..to the Canon brand.. its you who can do this..

I have managed to get £1500-£2000 together towards  a decent Camera  BUT I WILL NOT give that money away ..SO am now going to Look at some NIKON (spit) hardware as well

I'm not a "Canon or nothing" person, but I must say, I don't think your reasoning is very sound.

I am not that familiar with the exchange rates, but I don't believe you can get a new D800 from Nikon for the price you are seeking, nor will you likely be able to get a new 5D III for that price. As far as the next levels down, both Canon and Nikon have a full line of APS-C sensor cameras including their top-of-the-line models within that price range (I believe). And, both are competitively priced to one another (I think the 7D gives you quite a bit more camera for less cost actually). Likewise, it sounds as though both companies intend to offer their previous models (the 5D II and the D700) at significantly reduced but similar prices.

If you are upset that your budgeted amount won't buy you the latest full-frame models from either manufacturer...well...we all have budget limitations. They are both likely to be out of my price range as well. But, then again, so are BMWs and so are Rolex watches. Kind of, just the way life is, isn't it?

I know I know, I've been really getting annoyed that aston martin wont sell me a DB9 for $30,000 I mean don't they want my money?

Seriously the price is going to be what it is going to be, It is an item in massive demand and more than likely there will be a significant waiting list of preorders just to get one within months of release. That is the way it is.
End of story.

Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: eosbit on February 27, 2012, 06:52:25 PM
Therefore I was looking at the 7D and at a stretch a 5D mk II.. reasons were get something good and develop with it..not swap and change.. then the 5D Mk III has appeared on the horizon..

Eh?  The (seemingly) imminent announcement of a 5DIII does NOT make the 5DII any less of a camera.  It was and still is an AWESOME camera.    There will be thousands of people taking fantastic images with the 5DII for many many years to come.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 27, 2012, 06:54:06 PM
Quote
...because if 36 MP is better than 22 MP, then 41 MP must be even better!  Plus, no more fussing about with all those heavy, expensive lenses, and you still get to use Zeiss glass...  :P

Well...let's not let common sense get in the way of a good argument! I'm sure the new Nokia phone will get lotsa kids excited, but why don't we stay on point?!!

The simple fact is that 36MP is better than 22MP and there is no logical reason to believe otherwise. I've watched Canon let its long-held lead in the professional digital race get whittled down by both Nikon and Sony over the past few years and really don't care to stick around while other camera makers come out with better products.

Well, I could argue that the folks at Nikon have sung a very different tune for the past several years, until their recent paradigm shift. But...I won't argue that because I think you're right and they're not.

@Brian - I suspect a high ISO shot, with similar sensor tech, but one downsampled from 36 MP vs. 22 MP for the same 16x20" print, the downsampled one would show less noise. 

Barring the limits of diffraction, I'd rather have more MP and not need them than need them and not have them.  Storage is cheap, my computers are fast, there's no real downside.

But I will remind that Canon explicitly stated that if the market 'demanded' it, they could rapidly develop a high MP FF dSLR. Given that sensors take years to develop, that statement implies they have such a sensor ready, and even prototype cameras built around it (although the statement could easily be a bald-faced PR lie).  So, it's likely that if the D800 is very popular, Canon can and will respond, fairly soon, even if it's only an 'in-development' announcement like the 200-400mm lens.

Plus, despite the 36 MP vs. 22 MP debate, it wouldn't surprise me at all, given the current state of market share, for the 5DIII to outsell the D800 once they're going head-to-head.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 27, 2012, 07:01:06 PM

@Brian - I suspect a high ISO shot, with similar sensor tech, but one downsampled from 36 MP vs. 22 MP for the same 16x20" print, the downsampled one would show less noise. 


I was thinking along the lines where a 22mp sensor was optimised for low noise as compared to a sensor that was designed for high mp.

Recent example that this shows up was the noink D3

Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Brad Trent on February 27, 2012, 07:19:27 PM

But I will remind that Canon explicitly stated that if the market 'demanded' it, they could rapidly develop a high MP FF dSLR. Given that sensors take years to develop, that statement implies they have such a sensor ready, and even prototype cameras built around it (although the statement could easily be a bald-faced PR lie).  So, it's likely that if the D800 is very popular, Canon can and will respond, fairly soon, even if it's only an 'in-development' announcement like the 200-400mm lens.

Plus, despite the 36 MP vs. 22 MP debate, it wouldn't surprise me at all, given the current state of market share, for the 5DIII to outsell the D800 once they're going head-to-head.

A couple of things...

Unless Canon actually does have a 30+MP model ready for Photokina, at best it would still take them a year to get any new product to the market. If my own anecdotal evidence can be used as a benchmark, that might be too late for a lotta pros who are ready to jump to Nikon. I have spoken to countless numbers of friends...all dedicated 5D mkII users...who are extremely interested in the D800. And for all the same reasons I am...because the higher megapixel count will be greatly appreciated by advertising clients. Of course a wedding guy doesn't need a 36mp chip to do his job, but I do.

As for a new 5DIII outselling the D800, that's kind of a no-brainer, but only because Canon already has a much greater market share and of those users, there are a lot of reasons why they wouldn't be inclined to change to Nikon. A lot probably don't make a living at photography, some are perfectly happy with the current megapixel count and then there are the guys who have tens of thousands invested in glass. In my case, all I would have to replace is a 50 f1.2, 85 f1.2, 16-35mm and 70-200mm zooms...compared to a lotta guys, that's nothing!
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: KitH on February 27, 2012, 07:21:57 PM
Mike f2   

Hang on to your money until after NAB (April) in Las Vegas.   We should be seeing decent comparisons between the new products by then and there'll be demo content to see from everyone.   

Is your username an aperture or a very old Nikon?   Because you're training up in video, you really ought to consider being a "T" value instead of an "f".     

Anyway, welcome. it's a nutty as a bag of squirrels around here at the moment. 
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Orion on February 27, 2012, 07:38:32 PM
. . .  and I dont mean any offence to anyone..

. . . you say that as if we all married Canon. Say what you want about the company and its products, as long as it is not a waste of time. You have to comnsider everything, including the tech you want to invest in, and WHY! A few hundred $$$ for a person in a techy/artsy business should be the last thing on their mind. Especailly since the new product they seek and complain about isn't even out yet, nor a price mentioned, officially!

It all boggles the mind, comming from a person in media satudies and production, etc. . . . WOW!


BUT... most of you are extolling the OHHH got to have it and these features are worth it.. THERE IS A FULL ON RECESSION On out there..

. . . then buy a previous model, like the 7D or 5DmkII . . . since you choose to use the recession as the main factor.

I am looking for my first and probably last DSLR.. and Ive chosen Canon..CORRECTION I did choose Canon..

wonderful! maybe if you go to Nikon, you won't have so much pressures with price, etc, or maybe try another manufacturer, that can give you quality and price, etc. . . much to choose from and Nikon and Canon are just tops, but not the be all and end all of cameras for people complaining about price and product. search and see what is best for you, after you consider everything.

My decision was based on I work In Media live Broadcasting and have gone from vision engineer to trainee Video cameraman in 2 Years.. and Ive decided to learn the job properly and to do that I feel I need to start with STILLS  and perfect that alongside Video work..Sorry if am boring you all but am old fashioned and if I do something I do it right..

. . . this is really beyond the scope but, you do not need stills knowlewdge to learn video and vice versa. They both have aspects that are shared, but those are learnt as you progress in either field.

The high price thats been banded is Not justifyable.. take a step back and look.. Canon release a slightly improved camera at greatly inflated prices, sell a shed load to the must have new brigade or the canon pros get em at greatly discounted prices for the product to be seen out on the street then when its sales figures start to drop the price falls..ready for the next model.. and to be honest most on here are actually helping Canon Improve there sales by justifying the price.. Listen to YOURSELVES !!

Nikon is at 3300, and the Canon is slated to be @ 3500. . . what if Canon is using better AF and more chips than the D800, and new sensor design. WHy would anyone compare 3300 to 3500!? Who cares!? And to switch to another manufacturer, based on pricing policy when there is such little difference . . . . . . I honestly don't understand why so much beef. . . . if you want a pro system, then don;t argue and change plans based around a few hundred $$$. At the very least wait for a final release date and see for yourself before talking about price and switching. Something just doesn't seem logical, coming from a "vision engineer to trainee Video cameraman. . . ."

START realising and take a stance.. SAY NO (IEI)  TO Canon s Pricing structure and Demand a reasonable price to new product Pricing for Loyalty..to the Canon brand.. its you who can do this..

There is no loyalty! Canon, as well as Nikon, has to make sure they do not fall too far back in tech, and actually keep pace or succeed in order to maintain some sort of market share. Our "loyalty" should only go as far as where you want to spend your money: on this company's priduct or another company's product, all things considered. Loyalty, otherwise, is for weak minded individuals that fail to realise certain aspecxts of thier careers, and how tech and a company's products hinder or maintain that career, etc etc etc etc.. .  . .

Let's start complaining about the price of coffee, as that of 100yrs ago, or the price of bread and coffee in Europe after the intor of the EURO, for god's sake! Or the price of Nike shoes!? . . . or the prioce of the new LED 3D TVs, and then come back in 2 years and find how cheap they are, compared. . . . it's all meaningless, just about.

I have managed to get £1500-£2000 together towards  a decent Camera  BUT I WILL NOT give that money away ..SO am now going to Look at some NIKON (spit) hardware as well

Oh! So, I guess Nikon will comfort that need of yours, concerning price and products, as opposed to Canon! It's the same thing, oh weary consumer!

SO CANON THIS MIGHT BE ONE SALE YOU HAVE LOST..

M (DISAPPOINTED..)

. . .they are betting on your use of "MIGHT." We still have hope for you haha ;)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jrista on February 27, 2012, 10:50:22 PM
I am not sure if you are just being sarcastic, but you realize that at 62mp, not more than 2-3 lenses in Canon's entire lineup could resolve enough detail at any aperture to actually use all those pixels, right?

I'm really sick of people saying this sort of thing, since it's totally false.

Here's what the full-frame version of 184MP looks like on the old 100-400L (18MP 1.6-crop + 2x TC = 72MP on 1.6 crop = 184MP on full-frame)

http://photos.imageevent.com/sipphoto/samplepictures/T2i__3574%20edited.jpg (http://photos.imageevent.com/sipphoto/samplepictures/T2i__3574%20edited.jpg)

Yeah, in the corners of many lenses you're going to start having trouble at higher pixel densities, but you're still going to get more detail than you would with less pixel density.  You can't add pixels and get a less detailed shot, and on the better lenses, you're going to get more and more detailed.

Here's 288MP on crop (18MP + 4x = 18*4*4 = 288) or 737MP (288*1.6*1.6) on full-frame through the 400/2.8L (the old one):

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=37493247 (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=37493247)

I don't really get your math there...an 18mp sensor is an 18mp sensor, it will never produce an image with more than 18 million pixels in it. The number of pixels in the image has nothing to do with "resolution" as I'm using it. I believe you are mixing the concept of magnification (reproduction factor) with spatial resolution. They are not the same. Just because you magnify the moon enough such that, if you took a collage of photos of the whole moon at a given reproduction factor that, when combined, produce a 288mp image, does NOT mean that you have a 288mp sensor or lens, nor does it mean you can resolve beyond a certain degree of detail fineness. I'm not referring to total image resolution, magnification, reproduction factor, etc...I am referring to spatial resolution.

Spatial resolution is limited by optical aberrations at maximum aperture, which usually overpower diffraction, and limited by diffraction at narrower apertures. There are few lenses in Canon's lineup that offer near-perfect image reproduction (i.e. near-perfect lens characteristics) at maximum aperture, and once you stop down beyond about f/5.6, diffraction reduces spatial resolution below that which can be captured by Canon's highest density sensors (which are the 18mp APS-C sensors, or what would be a 47mp FF sensor.) The 500/4, 600/4, 70-200/2.8 II, 300/2.8, and a couple others get pretty darn close at maximum aperture, and nearly 100% at f/8 (which is limited to a max of 86 lp/mm by diffraction), but still less than perfect. Assuming perfection in a lens at f/4, you could resolve as much as 173 lp/mm, and some of Canon's lenses do indeed get very close to that (at least theoretically, I don't know if any of Canon's MTF's are actually real, and independent lab tests that produce real MTF charts for Canon lenses usually tend to indicate far lower than "perfect" lens resolution.)

Here is a simple matter of PHYSICS:

Any and all lenses, no matter who designs it or how perfectly it may be designed, at f/5.6, MTF 50% (about the minimum for a camera to effectively resolve two nearly overlapping points of light as distinct...i.e. neighboring line pairs), is capable of an absolute maximum spatial resolution of 123 lp/mm, assuming total perfection. It would take roughly a 52mp FF sensor, or a 20mp APS-C sensor, to resolve exactly that much detail...WITH an AA filter. We know for a fact that the 100-400 is NOT a perfect, diffraction-limited lens at 400/5.6, by a fair percentage. As someone who shoots with this lens for roughly 12-16 hours every weekend, and several more hours during the week, I can state with confidence that this lens does not resolve more detail than my 7D can resolve itself...at best it can resolve just about enough in the center...116lp/mm. That would be a loss of reproduction accuracy from "perfect" of about 5-6% (beyond margin of error.)

Now, if you slap on TWO additional 2x TC's, that you reduce the maximum aperture to f/22!!! At f/22, MTF 50%, your absolute maximum resolution shrinks to a meager 31lp/mm!!! A mere 3.3mp FF camera, or 1.2mp APS-C camera, would be sufficient to capture maximum detail at f/22. Every lens is diffraction limited by f/22, so our 100-400mm with two 2x TC's can certainly resolve that maximum of 31lp/mm.

Lets assume a modern sensor is capable of resolving detail at Rayleigh, which is an MTF of 9%. The human eye can barely discern detail at this level, and it is a far superior imaging device with cones and rods packed to a density an order of magnitude higher than sensor pixels, not to mention its powered by a vastly superior image processor. But, lets just assume that a modern camera is capable of discerning detail enough at a contrast level of only 9%. At f/22,  you could resolve about 68 lp/mm. You could capture maximum detail at that aperture with a 16mp FF sensor, or a 6mp APS-C sensor.

Thats nothing to say of the increase in optical aberrations with two 2x TC's stacked on top of the already less than perfect 100-400mm lens.

There is no way your resolving enough spatial resolution to equal 288mp with the 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 lens with TWO 2x TC's tacked onto the end. You might be able to achieve a reproduction factor that would produce a 288mp image if you took a collage of photos at 1600mm. When it comes to the moon, average contrast is very, very low, far lower than say the barbs on the feathers of a bird or even individual hairs on a deer or elk, or a myriad of other common subjects photographed with the 100-400mm L, so your probably safe computing resolution based on an MTF @ 10-12% contrast, rather than 50%. You'll get closer to that physical maximum of 68 lp/mm rather than 31 lp/mm, but there is little chance your actually going to resolve enough spatial resolution to utilize everything an 18mp sensor has to offer, let alone a 288mp sensor.

Don't confuse spatial resolution, which is how the resolution of lenses is measured with MTF charts, with reproduction factor, or effective magnification that a lens is blowing a subject up by. Two very different concepts.

For reference: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/resolution.shtml (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/resolution.shtml)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jrista on February 27, 2012, 11:01:12 PM

I am not sure if you are just being sarcastic, but you realize that at 62mp, not more than 2-3 lenses in Canon's entire lineup could resolve enough detail at any aperture to actually use all those pixels, right? You max out at 46mp, which is about 116lp/mm, which is right about where Canon's newest L-series lenses top out at their best aperture as well...which seems to be somewhere between f/4 and f/5.6 most of the time. The only few lenses from Canon that I think could resolve enough detail for 62mp are the new 500mm and 600mm L II lenses (which as of yet are still unreleased) and possibly the forthcoming 200-400 L...and even then, their maximum aperture is f/4, so 173lp/mm.

I don't believe that is the case. I thought some lenses were measured well above that. Plus the total resolution is a combination of sensor and lens that is not direct. Even the worst kit ever made delivers a more detailed image on a 7D than a 40D. A 70-200 + 1.4x TC still delivers more detail on a 7D. A 300 2.8 + TWO TCs still does on a 7D too.

Well sure, the 40D is a 10mp sensor, where as the 7D is an 18mp sensor. Were talking a 33% increase in resolution for the 7D. If we take the 18-55 at 55/5.6, assuming it was a perfect lens (and we know its far from it) it could resolve 123 lp/mm. Assuming the 18-55 kit, given how poor its IQ is (I've owned a couple of these, of differing generations, and all of them exhibit remarkably bad CA at max aperture at all focal lengths), only resolves 100lp/mm. The 40D is incapable of resolving even that much at 87lp/mm, so moving from the 40D to the 7D, which can resolve 116lp/mm, is obviously going to capture more detail. ;)

The 300/2.8 is one of the few Canon lenses that approaches perfection at f/2.8 (and you really pay for it, too, at nearly $7000). I would say the 70-200/2.8 II is another (although based on the MTF charts, the original 70-200/2.8 I is NOT...but it would be the same situation as the 18-55 when comparing the 40D to the 7D with that lens, stacked TC's or not.) These are the reasons I try to evaluate resolution on this forum as spatial resolution...in line pairs per millimeter (vs. megapixels or line widths per picture height), as its easy to explain why you might see such an improvement when moving from a 40D to a 7D, even with Canon's bottom-barrel lenses.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: apeshot on February 27, 2012, 11:19:14 PM


BUT... most of you are extolling the OHHH got to have it and these features are worth it.. THERE IS A FULL ON RECESSION On out there..



Say, as long as we're handing out free Physics lessons, can we also have an Econ reminder.  The recession has now been over for nearly twice as long as it ever even lasted.  The recession was 18 months long, but it ended nearly three years ago.  Trust me, I know we haven't returned to full-employment, but we've been in a slowly exapansionary period for nearly three years now. 

Buy the 5dII or the 7d depending on how you want to use it, you'll love it.  Or, buy the Nikon 800.  It seems a little odd and ironic that you would write such a passionate Dear Sir letter telling people they are being too passionate about Canon.  The market will set the price.  I love the fact that Nikon has stepped their game up, we all win.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jrista on February 27, 2012, 11:21:07 PM
The market will set the price.

'nuff said! :D
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jrista on February 27, 2012, 11:37:56 PM
I'm really sick of people saying this sort of thing, since it's totally false.

Here's what the full-frame version of 184MP looks like on the old 100-400L (18MP 1.6-crop + 2x TC = 72MP on 1.6 crop = 184MP on full-frame)

http://photos.imageevent.com/sipphoto/samplepictures/T2i__3574%20edited.jpg (http://photos.imageevent.com/sipphoto/samplepictures/T2i__3574%20edited.jpg)

BTW, the image linked above there is a remarkable demonstration of the detail-eating power of diffraction at f/22. :) There is VERY visible diffraction softening of that moon photo that wouldn't be present if you used only 1 2x TC, and you could probably upscale the f/11 shot to the same resolution as this one and still have more detail, or at least as much, as the f/22 version.

Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Ricku on February 27, 2012, 11:45:23 PM
most of you are extolling the OHHH got to have it and these features are worth it.. THERE IS A FULL ON RECESSION On out there..

I am looking for my first and probably last DSLR.. and Ive chosen Canon..CORRECTION I did choose Canon..

My decision was based on I work In Media live Broadcasting and have gone from vision engineer to trainee Video cameraman in 2 Years.. and Ive decided to learn the job properly and to do that I feel I need to start with STILLS  and perfect that alongside Video work..Sorry if am boring you all but am old fashioned and if I do something I do it right..

 Therefore I was looking at the 7D and at a stretch a 5D mk II.. reasons were get something good and develop with it..not swap and change.. then the 5D Mk III has appeared on the horizon..

BUT
The high price thats been banded is Not justifyable.. take a step back and look.. Canon release a slightly improved camera at greatly inflated prices, sell a shed load to the must have new brigade or the canon pros get em at greatly discounted prices for the product to be seen out on the street then when its sales figures start to drop the price falls..ready for the next model.. and to be honest most on here are actually helping Canon Improve there sales by justifying the price.. Listen to YOURSELVES !!

START realising and take a stance.. SAY NO (IEI)  TO Canon s Pricing structure and Demand a reasonable price to new product Pricing for Loyalty..to the Canon brand.. its you who can do this..

I have managed to get £1500-£2000 together towards  a decent Camera  BUT I WILL NOT give that money away ..SO am now going to Look at some NIKON (spit) hardware as well

SO CANON THIS MIGHT BE ONE SALE YOU HAVE LOST..

M (DISAPPOINTED..)

Smited!
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: pravkp on February 28, 2012, 12:29:44 AM
Hi ALL,

This is my First Post and I do Hope this gets to Canon or someone in the Know.. and I dont mean any offence to anyone..

BUT... most of you are extolling the OHHH got to have it and these features are worth it.. THERE IS A FULL ON RECESSION On out there..

I am looking for my first and probably last DSLR.. and Ive chosen Canon..CORRECTION I did choose Canon..

My decision was based on I work In Media live Broadcasting and have gone from vision engineer to trainee Video cameraman in 2 Years.. and Ive decided to learn the job properly and to do that I feel I need to start with STILLS  and perfect that alongside Video work..Sorry if am boring you all but am old fashioned and if I do something I do it right..

 Therefore I was looking at the 7D and at a stretch a 5D mk II.. reasons were get something good and develop with it..not swap and change.. then the 5D Mk III has appeared on the horizon..

BUT
The high price thats been banded is Not justifyable.. take a step back and look.. Canon release a slightly improved camera at greatly inflated prices, sell a shed load to the must have new brigade or the canon pros get em at greatly discounted prices for the product to be seen out on the street then when its sales figures start to drop the price falls..ready for the next model.. and to be honest most on here are actually helping Canon Improve there sales by justifying the price.. Listen to YOURSELVES !!

START realising and take a stance.. SAY NO (IEI)  TO Canon s Pricing structure and Demand a reasonable price to new product Pricing for Loyalty..to the Canon brand.. its you who can do this..

I have managed to get £1500-£2000 together towards  a decent Camera  BUT I WILL NOT give that money away ..SO am now going to Look at some NIKON (spit) hardware as well

SO CANON THIS MIGHT BE ONE SALE YOU HAVE LOST..

M (DISAPPOINTED..)

While there is some truth in what you are saying, remember that Canon does business NOT charity. With out getting into complex discussion on financial/market aspects, competition & demand drive prices. Even if we are able to make an educated guess on what their cost structure may be, I still doubt if Canon is making super normal profits in the long run. May i suggest we brush up on industry / product life cycles?
Clearly, there are products that cater to different market segments and it's up to us to decide on a product that "suits" us best.
IMHO, £1500-£2000 is still a lot of money to get the best that amount can get. There is always a better one out there or being churned out in the R&D labs.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: dunkers on February 28, 2012, 12:47:32 AM
I could never really wrap my head around the idea that people would jump ship just because they're not happy with just one item that either Canon or Nikon releases.

Sure, the item may not be what you expect but is it really worth it to dump something completely just because you're not happy with just one item? It's mentality like that which explains why people are getting divorced more often nowadays.

You've invested money into a company and system that I assume you've come to grow and love. Your current equipment has never let you down before....

But when one and just one new body gets released everybody loses their minds. If you continue with this mentality, you're never going to be happy with what you have.

I for one plan on investing into the 1DX or the 5D (depending on the specs of the latter) and using it for years to come. There isn't a single thing about the 1DX that I'm not happy about, aside from maybe the price tag. But seeing as I plan on sticking with that body for many years the price is worth it. As for the 5D, I really like rumored specs assuming it does around 8 fps.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: image2paint on February 28, 2012, 01:26:29 AM
I know the date was updated to 2nd of march but wasn't there still going to be another announcement 28th feb? What ever happened to that ???
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 28, 2012, 01:33:17 AM

I am not sure if you are just being sarcastic, but you realize that at 62mp, not more than 2-3 lenses in Canon's entire lineup could resolve enough detail at any aperture to actually use all those pixels, right? You max out at 46mp, which is about 116lp/mm, which is right about where Canon's newest L-series lenses top out at their best aperture as well...which seems to be somewhere between f/4 and f/5.6 most of the time. The only few lenses from Canon that I think could resolve enough detail for 62mp are the new 500mm and 600mm L II lenses (which as of yet are still unreleased) and possibly the forthcoming 200-400 L...and even then, their maximum aperture is f/4, so 173lp/mm.

I don't believe that is the case. I thought some lenses were measured well above that. Plus the total resolution is a combination of sensor and lens that is not direct. Even the worst kit ever made delivers a more detailed image on a 7D than a 40D. A 70-200 + 1.4x TC still delivers more detail on a 7D. A 300 2.8 + TWO TCs still does on a 7D too.

Well sure, the 40D is a 10mp sensor, where as the 7D is an 18mp sensor. Were talking a 33% increase in resolution for the 7D. If we take the 18-55 at 55/5.6, assuming it was a perfect lens (and we know its far from it) it could resolve 123 lp/mm. Assuming the 18-55 kit, given how poor its IQ is (I've owned a couple of these, of differing generations, and all of them exhibit remarkably bad CA at max aperture at all focal lengths), only resolves 100lp/mm. The 40D is incapable of resolving even that much at 87lp/mm, so moving from the 40D to the 7D, which can resolve 116lp/mm, is obviously going to capture more detail. ;)

The 300/2.8 is one of the few Canon lenses that approaches perfection at f/2.8 (and you really pay for it, too, at nearly $7000). I would say the 70-200/2.8 II is another (although based on the MTF charts, the original 70-200/2.8 I is NOT...but it would be the same situation as the 18-55 when comparing the 40D to the 7D with that lens, stacked TC's or not.) These are the reasons I try to evaluate resolution on this forum as spatial resolution...in line pairs per millimeter (vs. megapixels or line widths per picture height), as its easy to explain why you might see such an improvement when moving from a 40D to a 7D, even with Canon's bottom-barrel lenses.

Somehow I skimmed your response too quickly and thought I saw you listing 62lp/mm and 46 lp/mm limits  ;D.
But that said you still do a little better than just comparing lens to sensor since it is the combined system that determines the final results and you do a little better than you'd expect by that and even with 300 2.8 IS I and stacked TC on a 7D you can still do better than upscaling, but a lot more of your point is taken now that I read it as 62MP and 46MP hah. Guess I was a little too tired or distracted when I skimmed the post.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jrista on February 28, 2012, 02:14:20 AM
Well sure, the 40D is a 10mp sensor, where as the 7D is an 18mp sensor. Were talking a 33% increase in resolution for the 7D. If we take the 18-55 at 55/5.6, assuming it was a perfect lens (and we know its far from it) it could resolve 123 lp/mm. Assuming the 18-55 kit, given how poor its IQ is (I've owned a couple of these, of differing generations, and all of them exhibit remarkably bad CA at max aperture at all focal lengths), only resolves 100lp/mm. The 40D is incapable of resolving even that much at 87lp/mm, so moving from the 40D to the 7D, which can resolve 116lp/mm, is obviously going to capture more detail. ;)

The 300/2.8 is one of the few Canon lenses that approaches perfection at f/2.8 (and you really pay for it, too, at nearly $7000). I would say the 70-200/2.8 II is another (although based on the MTF charts, the original 70-200/2.8 I is NOT...but it would be the same situation as the 18-55 when comparing the 40D to the 7D with that lens, stacked TC's or not.) These are the reasons I try to evaluate resolution on this forum as spatial resolution...in line pairs per millimeter (vs. megapixels or line widths per picture height), as its easy to explain why you might see such an improvement when moving from a 40D to a 7D, even with Canon's bottom-barrel lenses.

Somehow I skimmed your response too quickly and thought I saw you listing 62lp/mm and 46 lp/mm limits  ;D.
But that said you still do a little better than just comparing lens to sensor since it is the combined system that determines the final results and you do a little better than you'd expect by that and even with 300 2.8 IS I and stacked TC on a 7D you can still do better than upscaling, but a lot more of your point is taken now that I read it as 62MP and 46MP hah. Guess I was a little too tired or distracted when I skimmed the post.

No problem...things probably get lost in translation on these forums more often than not. ;) I'd be pretty surprised myself to see someone say a Canon lens was only capable og 62lp/mm at best!

When it comes to system MTF, its usually closer to a lowest-common-denominator than anything else. Its tough to nail it down precisely given the nature of various elements, such as low pass filter strength, use of bayer color filter array sensors, etc. Its also tough because the spatial resolution of a lens is dependent upon its aperture and how well optical aberrations are corrected...and the latter is never actually specified anywhere in any reliable or usable form. Most of the real MTF charts I've seen for Canon lenses indicate lp/mm resolutions well below what one would generally expect from a Canon lens (although sometimes thats due to the imaging sensor being a limiting factor, rather than the lens.) I think I estimate too high a lot of the time. Its all rough numbers anyway though, and you can only get accurate results by actually doing legit testing with actual gear.

The goal, for me at least, is to educate people a little better about real resolution, spatial resolution, so we can all compare sensors on a normalized basis, rather than simpy comparing megapixel counts...which rapidly becomes confusing when you throw in varying sensor sizes and pixel densities into the mix. (Which is apparent when people wonder how well lenses may deal with a 36mp FF Nikon sensor...despite the fact that its less dense than the 18mp Canon APS-C.)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: mkrimmer on February 28, 2012, 02:18:51 AM
maybe the thread is lost because of a regular nikon-/canon-diskussion? :)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Musouka on February 28, 2012, 04:45:13 AM
There is no "one size fits all" in the end. The Nikonians themselves are divided over the best resolution for the D800(E).

[NR] Poll: Nikon D800 with 36MP or with 16MP sensor? (http://nikonrumors.com/2012/02/23/poll-nikon-d800-with-36mp-or-with-16mp-sensor.aspx/#ixzz1nepZZQRM)

It's extremely hard for any company to please everyone. When the 7D specs were first revealed, many complained that the 18MP was too much and will affect the ISO performance. I personally don't use all the resolution the 7D has to offer but I'm fine with its low-light capabilities. So now when Canon decided to go the other way, they are again criticized for falling behind competition with their MP count.

In the end, there is no right or wrong. A company will not release any product without thorough market research. If Canon ended up releasing a 22MP 5DIII, this must have been what their market research indicated they should do. Whether it's a right or wrong move remains to be seen. Who knows, maybe an MP monster is also in the making.

I realize that studio photographers (and maybe wild life ones) would like to see a camera with the biggest MP they could possibly get. One has to ask what percentage of Canon's potential sales does this segment make. If the bread and butter is somewhere else, that's what Canon would naturally focus on. As a publicly-traded company, Canon has the responsibility of maximizing their shareholders' value by pursuing what the company perceives as the most profitable venture.

No one should be emotionally invested in a company (unless they own a huge share of it :P). I may or may not like certain decisions a company makes. If I'm highly dissatisfied, I can just take my business elsewhere. I can complain and say "the company doesn't get it" (and I may or might not be right in that regard). If enough people started complaining, the company should/would start to notice. Hmm, isn't that what actually happened with the MP and, if the specs are true, the AF? We can argue that Canon has actually listened to what their customer want in one regard. The price, as other mentioned, will be set by the market. If people perceived value in the company's offering, they will buy it. Otherwise, the product will just sit on the shelves. Remember how the price of 50D dropped quickly shortly after introduction because of the fierce competition from the D300? If people perceived that the better value is offered by the D800(E), they will just buy that and Canon will be forced to lower the price of the 5DIII in order to entice more customers to buy.

Personally, I'm completely satisfied with the the rumored specs of the 5DIII; not so much the rumored price. I will wait for the second patch to give Canon the time needed to correct any issues (remember the black dots in the 5D2?) and allow the price to drop a bit. Nikon makes wonderful cameras but I currently prefer the Canon system as a whole. Others may agree or disagree with my stance and they are free to do so. I'm sure each has his/her reasons.

That said, I appreciate all the technical details and discussions everyone brings to the table. We all should take these with a sense of humor and openness. There is no need to question other people's ethics or call them names. Just be cool and carry on  ;D

An interesting quote:

"If  you attack people's opinions, many react like addicts" -  Bernie Siegel
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: bycostello on February 28, 2012, 05:41:34 AM
i likey dual slots.. not sure worth cost of upgrade though....
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: bbe on February 28, 2012, 06:23:37 AM
And what about a flash? Is nobody curently using a mark II missing the little popup flash?
Im in for a new body and prefere a ff. After reading hundreds of threaths and reviews i have concluded that the mark II is missing a decent af (which is important for me) but... Is it really that bad?

I want to experiment more low light so high iso and good af is neasasary. 7d sounds perfect but extends my glass so back to  5 d mark ii. This misses decent af (?) and a popup flash. So wait for mark III ?. This seems to get it all except..... The flash but for (if rumors are right) lets say € 1000,- (!) more.

I have for about € 1500 canon gear. I mention thet because nikon d700 seems to be a better option. What to do???
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: GL on February 28, 2012, 06:39:23 AM
And what about a flash? Is nobody curently using a mark II missing the little popup flash?

I wouldn't buy the MkIII if it had  popup flash (which thankfully it doesn't).
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 28, 2012, 06:47:48 AM
(Which is apparent when people wonder how well lenses may deal with a 36mp FF Nikon sensor...despite the fact that its less dense than the 18mp Canon APS-C.)

Fine, but don't forget that while the resolving power of a sensor does not vary spatially across the surface, the resolving power of a lens varies across the image circle, being highest in the center and lowest at the periphery.  So...I think that being concerned about how lenses will deal with a higher density FF sensor, even if not as high a density as current APS-C sensors, is valid given that the APS-C sensor is 'seeing' only the higher-resolving portion of the image circle, whereas the corners of the FF sensor extend to the edges of the image circle where lens performance is worst.  Not going to matter much for a 300/2.8, but for a 17-40mm, which is already getting mushy at the corners on the 5DII...

And what about a flash? Is nobody curently using a mark II missing the little popup flash?

I don't miss it.  Well, that's not true.  Sometimes, I get nostalgic and I miss that 'deer-in-headlights' look that an onboard flash provides, the harsh light and red-eye that a pop-up flash delivers so well.  But mostly, no, I don't miss it at all. 
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: dedrick427 on February 28, 2012, 06:55:45 AM
I've taped down the pop-up flash on my SX200is.  Though it is nice to have sometimes, it's not concerning enough for me to care eitherway.  I just know I've set aside the money for a 5D Mark II and I'm dying of anxiety to see the Mark III.  I almost got impatient and bought the Mark II... just... need... to calm down...
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Abraxx on February 28, 2012, 08:32:28 AM
"Everybody" is so concerned about MP, AF, weather sealing, Flash.

I rather want to know how the final performance of the mark III regarding DR will be....

my 2 cents :)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: ramon123 on February 28, 2012, 08:46:12 AM
due to no press invites shown yet and relative quiet... should we start worrying that the 5D3 wont' be announced on March 2nd?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: K-amps on February 28, 2012, 09:28:24 AM
"Everybody" is so concerned about MP, AF, weather sealing, Flash.

I rather want to know how the final performance of the mark III regarding DR will be....

my 2 cents :)

Applauded: You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else.  :)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jalbfb on February 28, 2012, 09:46:17 AM
due to no press invites shown yet and relative quiet... should we start worrying that the 5D3 wont' be announced on March 2nd?
 
I don't know.  CR seems pretty certain that March 2 is the day.  But then again so was Feb 28.  I'm still betting that Mar 2 will be it despite the press invite thing.  Has anyone on here who is privy to Canon press release got anything to add?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: CanineCandidsByL on February 28, 2012, 10:15:12 AM

I wouldn't buy the MkIII if it had  popup flash (which thankfully it doesn't).
[/quote]

Alright, I'll bite.  Why not?
Most cameras have something you wouldn't use, so why would this be a deal killer?  Keep in mind, that a popup on a camera like this could almost certainly be used as a communication flash to trigger other flashes, and wouldn't necessarily be used as a functional flash.  Even if it contains an RF device to trigger the 590 (if it has RF), we won't all be upgrading our current flashes right away.

And lastly, a popup is always there...just in case.  Its almost always better, IMO, to get a bad picture than no picture.

Thanks!
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Chuck Alaimo on February 28, 2012, 10:31:55 AM
There is no "one size fits all" in the end. The Nikonians themselves are divided over the best resolution for the D800(E).

[NR] Poll: Nikon D800 with 36MP or with 16MP sensor? (http://nikonrumors.com/2012/02/23/poll-nikon-d800-with-36mp-or-with-16mp-sensor.aspx/#ixzz1nepZZQRM)

It's extremely hard for any company to please everyone. When the 7D specs were first revealed, many complained that the 18MP was too much and will affect the ISO performance. I personally don't use all the resolution the 7D has to offer but I'm fine with its low-light capabilities. So now when Canon decided to go the other way, they are again criticized for falling behind competition with their MP count.

In the end, there is no right or wrong. A company will not release any product without thorough market research. If Canon ended up releasing a 22MP 5DIII, this must have been what their market research indicated they should do. Whether it's a right or wrong move remains to be seen. Who knows, maybe an MP monster is also in the making.

I realize that studio photographers (and maybe wild life ones) would like to see a camera with the biggest MP they could possibly get. One has to ask what percentage of Canon's potential sales does this segment make. If the bread and butter is somewhere else, that's what Canon would naturally focus on. As a publicly-traded company, Canon has the responsibility of maximizing their shareholders' value by pursuing what the company perceives as the most profitable venture.

No one should be emotionally invested in a company (unless they own a huge share of it :P). I may or may not like certain decisions a company makes. If I'm highly dissatisfied, I can just take my business elsewhere. I can complain and say "the company doesn't get it" (and I may or might not be right in that regard). If enough people started complaining, the company should/would start to notice. Hmm, isn't that what actually happened with the MP and, if the specs are true, the AF? We can argue that Canon has actually listened to what their customer want in one regard. The price, as other mentioned, will be set by the market. If people perceived value in the company's offering, they will buy it. Otherwise, the product will just sit on the shelves. Remember how the price of 50D dropped quickly shortly after introduction because of the fierce competition from the D300? If people perceived that the better value is offered by the D800(E), they will just buy that and Canon will be forced to lower the price of the 5DIII in order to entice more customers to buy.

Personally, I'm completely satisfied with the the rumored specs of the 5DIII; not so much the rumored price. I will wait for the second patch to give Canon the time needed to correct any issues (remember the black dots in the 5D2?) and allow the price to drop a bit. Nikon makes wonderful cameras but I currently prefer the Canon system as a whole. Others may agree or disagree with my stance and they are free to do so. I'm sure each has his/her reasons.

That said, I appreciate all the technical details and discussions everyone brings to the table. We all should take these with a sense of humor and openness. There is no need to question other people's ethics or call them names. Just be cool and carry on  ;D

An interesting quote:

"If  you attack people's opinions, many react like addicts" -  Bernie Siegel

+1!
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: kubelik on February 28, 2012, 11:30:57 AM
Musouka, you've captured exactly how I feel about the 5D Mark III.  Thank you for observing the fact that Canon has indeed been giving us most of the things that 5D Mark II users clamored for over the last few years.  Too often, when a product is announced, we tend to nitpick at the items on our personal wishlists that weren't incorporated into a product, rather than seeing all the pieces that were integrated into a product.

I know you state you're not thrilled with the price (and that's understandable, no one - and I mean no one - wants to shell out more money if they can avoid it).  But, to put it in perspective, we used to have to drop $5K in order to get our hands on Canon's pro AF (on a cropped sensor, no less).  Now they're releasing a product with the pro AF at a projected $3.5K ... and we're complaining that Canon is stiffing us.  Personally, I'll be waiting for rebates to kick in (and yes, perhaps a slight price shift due to the pricing on the D800); if the 5D Mark III's price ticks downward to $3200 or $3300 it will sell unbelievably well.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Cinnamon on February 28, 2012, 11:42:51 AM
People's views of pop-up flashes are somewhat misguided. As a professional photographer who owns numerous 580 EX II's and a ton of other lighting equipment, I almost never use the pop-up flash on my 7D...but I have on several occasions found myself wishing I had a pop-up flash on my 5D Mark II. Just by having one, it doesn't mean you have to use it...but by not having it, you don't have the option to, should the need arise. If and when those rare situations come up, it is convenient to have a built-in flash.

You can't always shoot on a tripod or in a studio, and if you don't have your external flash on your camera at that moment, you can miss an important shot. Again, pop-up flash is not ideal, but I wouldn't avoid a camera simply because it has one! While the lighting is harsh and does give a "deer in the headlights" look, I'd rather have a bad photo than no photo at all. This is like when people say that high ISO is useless...obviously noisy high ISO shots aren't ideal, but if and when you absolutely need to capture a shot, it is invaluable.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: ageha on February 28, 2012, 12:29:40 PM
People's views of pop-up flashes are somewhat misguided. As a professional photographer who owns numerous 580 EX II's and a ton of other lighting equipment, I almost never use the pop-up flash on my 7D...but I have on several occasions found myself wishing I had a pop-up flash on my 5D Mark II. Just by having one, it doesn't mean you have to use it...but by not having it, you don't have the option to, should the need arise. If and when those rare situations come up, it is convenient to have a built-in flash.

You can't always shoot on a tripod or in a studio, and if you don't have your external flash on your camera at that moment, you can miss an important shot. Again, pop-up flash is not ideal, but I wouldn't avoid a camera simply because it has one! While the lighting is harsh and does give a "deer in the headlights" look, I'd rather have a bad photo than no photo at all. This is like when people say that high ISO is useless...obviously noisy high ISO shots aren't ideal, but if and when you absolutely need to capture a shot, it is invaluable.
1+
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jrista on February 28, 2012, 01:42:53 PM
(Which is apparent when people wonder how well lenses may deal with a 36mp FF Nikon sensor...despite the fact that its less dense than the 18mp Canon APS-C.)

Fine, but don't forget that while the resolving power of a sensor does not vary spatially across the surface, the resolving power of a lens varies across the image circle, being highest in the center and lowest at the periphery.  So...I think that being concerned about how lenses will deal with a higher density FF sensor, even if not as high a density as current APS-C sensors, is valid given that the APS-C sensor is 'seeing' only the higher-resolving portion of the image circle, whereas the corners of the FF sensor extend to the edges of the image circle where lens performance is worst.  Not going to matter much for a 300/2.8, but for a 17-40mm, which is already getting mushy at the corners on the 5DII...

Certainly, and its a point I try to touch on when I can. I think I've mentioned a few times that I'm referring to lens-center resolution. Its more difficult to evaluate corner sharpness, as falloff curves vary widely across Canon's lens lineup (across any lens lineup.) Falloff is often not linear by any means either. Whey I say that there are only a few Canon lenses that approach perfection, I mean center-to-edge resolution is nearly perfect. I think the only two lenses I've seen that solidly exhibit near-perfect replication accuracy center-to-edge (at least theoretically...I have not yet seen real MTF's for these lenses) are the yet to be released 500mm L II and 600mm L II. The 300 f/2.8 L may be another one, possibly the 70-200 f/2.8 L II (contrast seems great to edge, but sharpness does fall off a bit more), and I'd have to do some digging to see if there are any more...there are not many. Most Canon lenses do very well in the center, but some of the best fall off terribly in the corners. The original 16-35 L had atrocious corner sharpness and contrast vs. its excellent center sharpness, and even the Mark II version has less than stellar corner performance. I believe one of the reasons Canon is upgrading their line of lenses lately is to improve resolution characteristics across the board. It makes sense, for the very reasons you've stated...center-to-edge has to improve across the board to accommodate higher density sensors, particularly larger sensor formats.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 28, 2012, 01:55:29 PM
...if you don't have your external flash on your camera at that moment, you can miss an important shot. Again, pop-up flash is not ideal, but I wouldn't avoid a camera simply because it has one! While the lighting is harsh and does give a "deer in the headlights" look, I'd rather have a bad photo than no photo at all.

I agree with the sentiment.  But from a practical perspective, if the 5DII had a pop-up flash, the additional protrusion necessary for that would be a major annoyance when using TS-E lenses, just like it is when I try to use one on my 7D.

...we used to have to drop $5K in order to get our hands on Canon's pro AF (on a cropped sensor, no less).  Now they're releasing a product with the pro AF at a projected $3.5K ...

So, Canon has announced the spec for the 5DIII's AF system?  I must have missed that...  Even if it has the same number of points as the 1D X (and even that is still a rumor), that doesn't mean it's 'pro AF'.  I hope that's what it means, yes, but I'm not holding my breath - the 1-series AF is about more than the number of points.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: x-vision on February 28, 2012, 02:14:46 PM
There is no "one size fits all" in the end. The Nikonians themselves are divided over the best resolution for the D800(E).

...

I realize that studio photographers (and maybe wild life ones) would like to see a camera with the biggest MP they could possibly get. One has to ask what percentage of Canon's potential sales does this segment make. If the bread and butter is somewhere else, that's what Canon would naturally focus on.

What a sensible post. Agree 100%.

It should be quite clear by now that there is no "one size fits all" when it comes to these high-end cameras.
So, by trying to hit a sweet spot, Canon and Nikon will inevitably anger a certain number of users.

I also think that the rumored specs of the 5DIII are fantastic and I truly hope that the rumored $3500 price is the kit price, not the body-only price.
With these specs and the right price, I have no doubts that the 5DIII will be another great success for Canon.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: kubelik on February 28, 2012, 02:16:48 PM
...we used to have to drop $5K in order to get our hands on Canon's pro AF (on a cropped sensor, no less).  Now they're releasing a product with the pro AF at a projected $3.5K ...

So, Canon has announced the spec for the 5DIII's AF system?  I must have missed that...  Even if it has the same number of points as the 1D X (and even that is still a rumor), that doesn't mean it's 'pro AF'.  I hope that's what it means, yes, but I'm not holding my breath - the 1-series AF is about more than the number of points.

sure, neuro, we're dealing with rumors here.  but I'm addressing people's complaints about a rumor, so I figured taking the content of a rumor at face value is acceptable and even necessary if we're going to have it be a point of discussion.  if the rumors aren't valid points of discussion, what are any of us doing here?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: GL on February 28, 2012, 03:09:01 PM

I wouldn't buy the MkIII if it had  popup flash (which thankfully it doesn't).

Alright, I'll bite.  Why not?
Most cameras have something you wouldn't use, so why would this be a deal killer?  Keep in mind, that a popup on a camera like this could almost certainly be used as a communication flash to trigger other flashes, and wouldn't necessarily be used as a functional flash.  Even if it contains an RF device to trigger the 590 (if it has RF), we won't all be upgrading our current flashes right away.

And lastly, a popup is always there...just in case.  Its almost always better, IMO, to get a bad picture than no picture.

Thanks!
[/quote]

Frankly because it's flimsy and completely useless for 99.99% of the shots I take. And the 0.01% of shots I *might* use it for, would be for record, not for keeping. It's just my view; I'm sure others aren't bothered by the crappy-looking construction of a popup, but on a solid pro camera I don't think it has any merit or place, likewise an AF assist beam. If I have to use on-camera flash it may as well be to the aid of the final image. I'd feel the same if I were buying a MkII, III or D800 for that matter.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jrista on February 28, 2012, 03:09:57 PM
...we used to have to drop $5K in order to get our hands on Canon's pro AF (on a cropped sensor, no less).  Now they're releasing a product with the pro AF at a projected $3.5K ...

So, Canon has announced the spec for the 5DIII's AF system?  I must have missed that...  Even if it has the same number of points as the 1D X (and even that is still a rumor), that doesn't mean it's 'pro AF'.  I hope that's what it means, yes, but I'm not holding my breath - the 1-series AF is about more than the number of points.

sure, neuro, we're dealing with rumors here.  but I'm addressing people's complaints about a rumor, so I figured taking the content of a rumor at face value is acceptable and even necessary if we're going to have it be a point of discussion.  if the rumors aren't valid points of discussion, what are any of us doing here?

To Neuro's point, the rumors have NOT stated that the 5D III AF is actually "pro AF". It simply states its 61pt, and that IS still a rumor, even if its a solid one. As Nero stated, the 1D X AF is about more than just AF points. Its about what type of points, how each type of point is distributed, what kind of camera logic drives the AF, how configurable it is, etc.

All we know at this point is that a solid CR3 rumor states "61pt AF". Assuming anything more is, well, just wild speculation, and is neither rumor nor fact. It may well indeed be on topic here...but I think its important to be realistic...the 5D III has not been rumored to have professional grade AF on the level of the 1-series bodies.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: epiieq1 on February 28, 2012, 03:18:49 PM
Just wondering if anyone has heard rumors or has insight into on-camera GPS for the 5Dmk3.  I know the 1DX has the add-on module, and I was hoping the mk3 would have integrated or an optional add-on, but don't see anything in the photos.  While some may consider this unnecessary, I like the fact that if I go on vacation all of the photos I have from my iPhone or Panasonic P&S have the GPS info on them and can be plotted, but my t2i requires complicated finagling and using my iPhone.  This is something Nikon has had available for awhile, and would be a great addition to a camera like this.  Totally fine with an add-on unit so that those that don't want it, don't have to have it, I'd just like the option.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: dswatson83 on February 28, 2012, 03:28:20 PM
Just wondering if anyone has heard rumors or has insight into on-camera GPS for the 5Dmk3.  I know the 1DX has the add-on module, and I was hoping the mk3 would have integrated or an optional add-on, but don't see anything in the photos.  While some may consider this unnecessary, I like the fact that if I go on vacation all of the photos I have from my iPhone or Panasonic P&S have the GPS info on them and can be plotted, but my t2i requires complicated finagling and using my iPhone.  This is something Nikon has had available for awhile, and would be a great addition to a camera like this.  Totally fine with an add-on unit so that those that don't want it, don't have to have it, I'd just like the option.
It would probably be an add on unit. There are issues with taking GPS modules with cameras in to some countries. Cameras like the 5D and 1D series often make it into these remote countries where secrecy is important.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Jay_S on February 28, 2012, 03:55:02 PM
...we used to have to drop $5K in order to get our hands on Canon's pro AF (on a cropped sensor, no less).  Now they're releasing a product with the pro AF at a projected $3.5K ...

So, Canon has announced the spec for the 5DIII's AF system?  I must have missed that...  Even if it has the same number of points as the 1D X (and even that is still a rumor), that doesn't mean it's 'pro AF'.  I hope that's what it means, yes, but I'm not holding my breath - the 1-series AF is about more than the number of points.

sure, neuro, we're dealing with rumors here.  but I'm addressing people's complaints about a rumor, so I figured taking the content of a rumor at face value is acceptable and even necessary if we're going to have it be a point of discussion.  if the rumors aren't valid points of discussion, what are any of us doing here?

To Neuro's point, the rumors have NOT stated that the 5D III AF is actually "pro AF". It simply states its 61pt, and that IS still a rumor, even if its a solid one. As Nero stated, the 1D X AF is about more than just AF points. Its about what type of points, how each type of point is distributed, what kind of camera logic drives the AF, how configurable it is, etc.

All we know at this point is that a solid CR3 rumor states "61pt AF". Assuming anything more is, well, just wild speculation, and is neither rumor nor fact. It may well indeed be on topic here...but I think its important to be realistic...the 5D III has not been rumored to have professional grade AF on the level of the 1-series bodies.

I'm inclined to think that they're not going to put the full bell's and whistle's focusing system of the D into the mkIII.. That would seem counter intuitive to marketing..  Clearly they would step up from the current 5Dii system, but they could take a lead from the 7D system and perhaps expand the number of points of that vs. a full 61 pt. system.  They've got to somehow not take away from the high end sales as well..   I'll start a new rumor here..  A 35 pt focusing system, selectable zones (like the 7D) and setting specific focusing points, also like the 7D.. maybe better metering of the points..  :-)   We'll see when we see, I guess.

Jay S.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: moreorless on February 28, 2012, 05:40:22 PM
I'm inclined to think that they're not going to put the full bell's and whistle's focusing system of the D into the mkIII.. That would seem counter intuitive to marketing..  Clearly they would step up from the current 5Dii system, but they could take a lead from the 7D system and perhaps expand the number of points of that vs. a full 61 pt. system.  They've got to somehow not take away from the high end sales as well..   I'll start a new rumor here..  A 35 pt focusing system, selectable zones (like the 7D) and setting specific focusing points, also like the 7D.. maybe better metering of the points..  :-)   We'll see when we see, I guess.

Jay S.

In the past though there was a much stronger need to differentiate by AF system with the 1D line as ASPH which ment the 5D line had clear advanatges in some areas. With the 1DX those advanatges are likely gone leaving more of a list of pluses for the pro line.

My guess would be that the two AF systems will be very similar with the 5D mk3 lacking some of the more advanced programable modes and perhaps being a bit slower with reduced processing power.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Maxis Gamez on February 28, 2012, 05:56:00 PM
People talk all the time about the AF of the 5D MKII not being so great and so on but with a good technique anything can be possible. Here are few images.

(http://gvisions.org/nsn/2011/5Dmkii/_MG_6777.jpg)

(http://gvisions.org/nsn/2011/5Dmkii/_MG_8251.jpg)

(http://gvisions.org/nsn/2011/5Dmkii/_MG_0942.jpg)

I love my 5D MKII that's for sure!

www.gvisions.org (http://www.gvisions.org) - Bird Photography
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: unfocused on February 28, 2012, 06:24:54 PM
Just trying to make sure we get this thread over 50 pages. People need to do their part to set a record here.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 28, 2012, 06:25:29 PM
wow great shots!
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: D_Rochat on February 28, 2012, 06:33:17 PM
Just trying to make sure we get this thread over 50 pages. People need to do their part to set a record here.

It'll never happen......
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 28, 2012, 06:35:43 PM
Just trying to make sure we get this thread over 50 pages. People need to do their part to set a record here.

it'll hit a 100 pages before the 5D3 actually hits the streets...
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jwong on February 28, 2012, 06:44:27 PM
Just trying to make sure we get this thread over 50 pages. People need to do their part to set a record here.

it'll hit a 100 pages before the 5D3 actually hits the streets...

I'm guessing that the only threat to prevent this from reaching 100 pages is a new thread about the 5DIII announced officially... so that gives us about 2 days?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: MazV-L on February 28, 2012, 06:51:23 PM
Just trying to make sure we get this thread over 50 pages. People need to do their part to set a record here.

Okay, a trivial post about nothing, are we at 50 pages yet?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: HurtinMinorKey on February 28, 2012, 07:05:35 PM
I'm all for supporting meaningless causes.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: thatcherk1 on February 28, 2012, 07:14:00 PM
me too
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on February 28, 2012, 07:21:18 PM
And what about a flash? Is nobody curently using a mark II missing the little popup flash?

I wouldn't buy the MkIII if it had  popup flash (which thankfully it doesn't).

WHy not? Supposing it does everything you want but it also has a pop-up flash? You seriously wouldn't get it??

Pop-up can be  life-saver too when the unexpected happens. Some people hardly ever shoot with flash and don't liek lugging one around and yet once in a while it can really save a photographic opportunity. Why would you be against that too?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jrista on February 28, 2012, 07:34:33 PM
People talk all the time about the AF of the 5D MKII not being so great and so on but with a good technique anything can be possible. Here are few images.

I love my 5D MKII that's for sure!

First off, great photos. Love the bald eagle, fantastic shot!

As for "anything can be possible", sure, but thats not the point. Every one of your shots is center focused, and thats one of the complaints I've heard from many bird photographers that the 5D II AF doesn't really offer much in the way if in-flight AF tracking without limiting composition options. Generally speaking, better, faster AF systems improve the amount of keepers as well, limiting how frequently you encounter out of focus shots and the like. Finally, the ability to AF track at a high framerate increases the chances of getting an awesome shot with intriguing pose or other characteristics in focus.

Sure, anything is possible...but its more the ease of getting that great shot than it simply being possible that having a nice AF system brings to the table.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Maxis Gamez on February 28, 2012, 08:06:59 PM
People talk all the time about the AF of the 5D MKII not being so great and so on but with a good technique anything can be possible. Here are few images.

I love my 5D MKII that's for sure!

First off, great photos. Love the bald eagle, fantastic shot!

As for "anything can be possible", sure, but thats not the point. Every one of your shots is center focused, and thats one of the complaints I've heard from many bird photographers that the 5D II AF doesn't really offer much in the way if in-flight AF tracking without limiting composition options. Generally speaking, better, faster AF systems improve the amount of keepers as well, limiting how frequently you encounter out of focus shots and the like. Finally, the ability to AF track at a high framerate increases the chances of getting an awesome shot with intriguing pose or other characteristics in focus.

Sure, anything is possible...but its more the ease of getting that great shot than it simply being possible that having a nice AF system brings to the table.

You do understand that the 5D MKII was designed for landscapes, studio and pretty much anything that doesn't move fast. So why the argument over a slow AF if most people including myself uses the camera specifically for that. In fact, I often create landscapes in manual focus.

That's why we have the 7D and Mark IV.

PS: Some of the images I create with the 5D MKII were created using all 9 focusing points. Again, a good understanding of your camera availability and a good focusing including tracking, the camera will perform just fine.

I use it all the time with my Canon 800mm with great success. Check out my website to see more images created with this camera and 7D. www.gvisions.org (http://www.gvisions.org)

Thanks!
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jrista on February 28, 2012, 08:31:44 PM
People talk all the time about the AF of the 5D MKII not being so great and so on but with a good technique anything can be possible. Here are few images.

I love my 5D MKII that's for sure!

First off, great photos. Love the bald eagle, fantastic shot!

As for "anything can be possible", sure, but thats not the point. Every one of your shots is center focused, and thats one of the complaints I've heard from many bird photographers that the 5D II AF doesn't really offer much in the way if in-flight AF tracking without limiting composition options. Generally speaking, better, faster AF systems improve the amount of keepers as well, limiting how frequently you encounter out of focus shots and the like. Finally, the ability to AF track at a high framerate increases the chances of getting an awesome shot with intriguing pose or other characteristics in focus.

Sure, anything is possible...but its more the ease of getting that great shot than it simply being possible that having a nice AF system brings to the table.

You do understand that the 5D MKII was designed for landscapes, studio and pretty much anything that doesn't move fast. So why the argument over a slow AF if most people including myself uses the camera specifically for that. In fact, I often create landscapes in manual focus.

That's why we have the 7D and Mark IV.

PS: Some of the images I create with the 5D MKII were created using all 9 focusing points. Again, a good understanding of your camera availability and a good focusing including tracking, the camera will perform just fine.

I use it all the time with my Canon 800mm with great success. Check out my website to see more images created with this camera and 7D. www.gvisions.org (http://www.gvisions.org)

Thanks!

Sure, we all understand that the 5D II AF was not designed for action on any level. The complaint I think most potential 5D III buyers have is that Canon has been extremely lax with the AF on the 5D line, in comparison to the competition. Most prosumer Nikon bodies have far more advanced AF than on any xxxD, xxD, and even the 5D II body. A lot of Canon users, including myself, ask the question:

How can Canon keep calling the 5D line a professional camera body when its been perpetually gimped by the most atrocious AF system Canon has to offer, outperformed by all cross-type 9-pt AF of the xxD line, the all cross-type 19-pt AF of the 7D, obviously all the 1D bodies (even those a couple generations old), as well as most Nikon bodies (which have anywhere from 30 to over 50 AF points these days!!)

I think most 5D II owners have used the camera for still scenes because it just wasn't readily capable for most action scenes, but thats a limitation imposed by Canon, not necessarily the owners of 5D II's. I can completely understand many people ditching the 5D line in favor of any one of Nikons prosumer or semi-pro bodies, simply because they are more capable in a general sense these days. For those of us who are heavily invested in Canon lenses, it can be rather frustrating to see the competition racing past Canon in terms of features (particularly AF), yet be stuck using something or having new options that is perceived as inferior.

Personally, I'm too heavily invested in Canon lenses to switch brands. I like a lot of things about Canon cameras, so I wouldn't likely switch even if I had the option. But it is still irksome to see Nikon significantly outperforming Canon in the ISO/read noise/DR department, putting advanced AF systems in almost ALL of their cameras, offering better full-color metering systems on most of their cameras (the 1D X is the FIRST Canon body to get such a thing, and here's to hoping the 5D III gets the new 100k pixel metering and AF assist system as well), etc.

Canon needs to compete. They have demonstrated they can with the 1D X...now they need to prove they WILL with all the rest of their cameras released from here on out. AF is just a talking point when it comes to the things Canon has dropped the ball on relative to the competition.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: BlueMixWhite on February 28, 2012, 08:35:20 PM
The 5D has to come this Friday, just check the date.....
Friday = 5
2nd March = 2+3=5
2012 = 2+0+1+2 = 5
all together 3 fives....which mean mk3  ::)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Maxis Gamez on February 28, 2012, 08:38:11 PM

Personally, I'm too heavily invested in Canon lenses to switch brands.

This is something else I don't understand. I will be happy to adopt a Nikon LANDSCAPE set up if I can't get what I want from Canon but I can easy leave my current Canon set up for Bird Photography.

Why does everyone always have the thought of always "jumping ship" instead of having an open mind to use both systems?? After all, they are just tools to create images.

I have no problems using both systems, in fact that will help me even more during my workshops and seminars.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Jay_S on February 28, 2012, 08:51:26 PM
People talk all the time about the AF of the 5D MKII not being so great and so on but with a good technique anything can be possible. Here are few images.

I love my 5D MKII that's for sure!

First off, great photos. Love the bald eagle, fantastic shot!

As for "anything can be possible", sure, but thats not the point. Every one of your shots is center focused, and thats one of the complaints I've heard from many bird photographers that the 5D II AF doesn't really offer much in the way if in-flight AF tracking without limiting composition options. Generally speaking, better, faster AF systems improve the amount of keepers as well, limiting how frequently you encounter out of focus shots and the like. Finally, the ability to AF track at a high framerate increases the chances of getting an awesome shot with intriguing pose or other characteristics in focus.

Sure, anything is possible...but its more the ease of getting that great shot than it simply being possible that having a nice AF system brings to the table.

You do understand that the 5D MKII was designed for landscapes, studio and pretty much anything that doesn't move fast. So why the argument over a slow AF if most people including myself uses the camera specifically for that. In fact, I often create landscapes in manual focus.

That's why we have the 7D and Mark IV.

PS: Some of the images I create with the 5D MKII were created using all 9 focusing points. Again, a good understanding of your camera availability and a good focusing including tracking, the camera will perform just fine.

I use it all the time with my Canon 800mm with great success. Check out my website to see more images created with this camera and 7D. www.gvisions.org (http://www.gvisions.org)

Thanks!

Which was kind of my post a few pages back.  I've got a 7D which is excellent in every way, but I long for a full frame for portrait (especially DOF) and landscape, where crop creates its headaches (and yes I have crop lenses like the 10-22)..  For me, adding a 5DmkII are a greatly reduced price after the III is announced may be my path.  I don't know that Canon is going to Me_Me_Me the IQ of the new 1DX by intro'ing some new super sensor with greatly expanded DR and incredibly low noise at High ISOs.  I do see the 5DIII being a faster camera, capable of more FPS than the MkII and with a better focusing system than the MKII..  I'm just not sure what else they add without starting to infringe upward.

Jay S.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jrista on February 28, 2012, 08:55:39 PM

Personally, I'm too heavily invested in Canon lenses to switch brands.

This is something else I don't understand. I will be happy to adopt a Nikon LANDSCAPE set up if I can't get what I want from Canon but I can easy leave my current Canon set up for Bird Photography.

Why does everyone always have the thought of always "jumping ship" instead of having an open mind to use both systems?? After all, they are just tools to create images.

I have no problems using both systems, in fact that will help me even more during my workshops and seminars.

Well, you might be more unique in that then. Personally, I wouldn't like not having the option of interchanging all of my gear amongst all of my cameras. Not only that, if you start out with one brand, and want to add another, its more costly to do so...you have to buy gear you may already have for the alternative brand, and when it comes to high quality glass, that stuff doesn't come cheap. Almost all of my kit is professional level gear, I have one, maybe 2 lenses that are not L-series, I only buy professional grade bodies so the 7D and either the 5D III or possibly whatever Canon releases end of year will be my second body, and whatever the professional upgrade path for those is in the future is what I'll take...so not cheap stuff. If I wanted to pick up a Nikon "landscape" camera, I'd have to pick up the camera body and at least one or two lenses, extra batteries, possibly different memory cards of they use XQD, separate items for things like remote shutter releases, lens filters, extra battery chargers (such as those that can work off of a car cigarette lighter outlet), etc. to the tune of several thousand dollars. Even if you don't fully "jump ship", the cost is still considerable, and the effort to find all the appropriate accessories for both brands can be considerable. Not the most viable option for most customers.

I am not at the point where I'm completely dissatisfied with Canon...however if they don't demonstrate a will to step up and really compete with their growing competition, and simply find it easier to sit happy on increasingly dated technology, increasingly limited feature sets, etc. relative to the competition, its going to be increasingly hard not to go on an all out crusade against Canon's tactics all over the net and encourage Canon owners to jump ship with (good reason, even)....put some real bottom-line pressure on Canon to get their act together and offer some real value for the prices they are asking of their customers for "modern" gear. (Assuming the 5D III body only is indeed $3500 list, even street price is going to be atrociously expensive if the AF system, FPS, and metering system are not competitive vs. what Nikon and the rest of the competition have to offer.) I don't think I'd be alone in that crusade either...
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jrista on February 28, 2012, 09:05:53 PM
@Maxis Gamez: Just out of curiosity, did you write an article for NatureScapes.net recently? If so, your photography is great...I loved your sunset silhouette shots...fantastic. Anyway, your article made me put Florida on my list of photography destinations, particularly for birds. I don't have anywhere near your experience, but bird photography has also engulfed almost every moment of my work lately.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: K-amps on February 28, 2012, 09:06:41 PM
The 5D has to come this Friday, just check the date.....
Friday = 5
2nd March = 2+3=5
2012 = 2+0+1+2 = 5
all together 3 fives....which mean mk3  ::)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: NXT1000 on February 28, 2012, 10:10:09 PM
why should i pay good money to go from 21mp to 22mp. canon must be crazy to think people will do so. maybe new buyer, yes. not me, 800e here i come.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: whoaaa on February 28, 2012, 10:20:32 PM
why should i pay good money to go from 21mp to 22mp. canon must be crazy to think people will do so. maybe new buyer, yes. not me, 800e here i come.

Because 1mp is the only difference between that and the 5d2  ::) ::)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: chengpenguin on February 28, 2012, 10:26:40 PM
why should i pay good money to go from 21mp to 22mp. canon must be crazy to think people will do so. maybe new buyer, yes. not me, 800e here i come.

If mega pixels is what you are looking for, you can consider the 41mp Pureview 808.

What Canoners are upgrading for is the improved AF and low light performance of the 5D3.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: tooslick2k on February 28, 2012, 10:27:37 PM
why should i pay good money to go from 21mp to 22mp. canon must be crazy to think people will do so. maybe new buyer, yes. not me, 800e here i come.

Because 1mp is the only difference between that and the 5d2  ::) ::)

+1
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Sharper100 on February 28, 2012, 10:38:42 PM
why should i pay good money to go from 21mp to 22mp. canon must be crazy to think people will do so. maybe new buyer, yes. not me, 800e here i come.

You do make a valid point.  However, be careful in which forum you say that. Many people here are anxious to buy whatever 5D replacement comes out, at whatever MSRP.

I am not planning to spend $3,500 for a 5D body only, while the D800 can be had for $3,000.

That said, I still hope that Canon can introduce a worthy replacement for 5DII, at the same introductory price that it had for 5DII when it first came out. BTW, that is what Nikon did also.

Let's hope for $2,700 MSRP for body, or $3,500 for the kit, with 24-105/f4 L IS II  :)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: D_Rochat on February 28, 2012, 11:07:59 PM
why should i pay good money to go from 21mp to 22mp. canon must be crazy to think people will do so. maybe new buyer, yes. not me, 800e here i come.

Yeah...... Canon added .9mp and re-badged as the mkIII without changing anything else. Have fun with you D800!
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: degies on February 28, 2012, 11:14:36 PM
I have been reading all the ramblings in this massive post and I will just say this:
the new 5DMIII will have :

New processors
New Auto-focus system
22 MP
Reduction in noise is probably the biggest impact

the rest will be odds and ends with a button here and there. The big issue for me this year is the amount of cash going from me to Canon! I was holding out for this as well as the new 24-70 ! so it's going to be an expensive year!
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 28, 2012, 11:41:45 PM
People talk all the time about the AF of the 5D MKII not being so great and so on but with a good technique anything can be possible. Here are few images.

I love my 5D MKII that's for sure!

First off, great photos. Love the bald eagle, fantastic shot!

As for "anything can be possible", sure, but thats not the point. Every one of your shots is center focused, and thats one of the complaints I've heard from many bird photographers that the 5D II AF doesn't really offer much in the way if in-flight AF tracking without limiting composition options. Generally speaking, better, faster AF systems improve the amount of keepers as well, limiting how frequently you encounter out of focus shots and the like. Finally, the ability to AF track at a high framerate increases the chances of getting an awesome shot with intriguing pose or other characteristics in focus.

Sure, anything is possible...but its more the ease of getting that great shot than it simply being possible that having a nice AF system brings to the table.

You do understand that the 5D MKII was designed for landscapes, studio and pretty much anything that doesn't move fast. So why the argument over a slow AF if most people including myself uses the camera specifically for that. In fact, I often create landscapes in manual focus.

That's why we have the 7D and Mark IV.

PS: Some of the images I create with the 5D MKII were created using all 9 focusing points. Again, a good understanding of your camera availability and a good focusing including tracking, the camera will perform just fine.

I use it all the time with my Canon 800mm with great success. Check out my website to see more images created with this camera and 7D. www.gvisions.org (http://www.gvisions.org)

Thanks!

Sure, we all understand that the 5D II AF was not designed for action on any level. The complaint I think most potential 5D III buyers have is that Canon has been extremely lax with the AF on the 5D line, in comparison to the competition. Most prosumer Nikon bodies have far more advanced AF than on any xxxD, xxD, and even the 5D II body. A lot of Canon users, including myself, ask the question:

How can Canon keep calling the 5D line a professional camera body when its been perpetually gimped by the most atrocious AF system Canon has to offer, outperformed by all cross-type 9-pt AF of the xxD line, the all cross-type 19-pt AF of the 7D, obviously all the 1D bodies (even those a couple generations old), as well as most Nikon bodies (which have anywhere from 30 to over 50 AF points these days!!)

I think most 5D II owners have used the camera for still scenes because it just wasn't readily capable for most action scenes, but thats a limitation imposed by Canon, not necessarily the owners of 5D II's. I can completely understand many people ditching the 5D line in favor of any one of Nikons prosumer or semi-pro bodies, simply because they are more capable in a general sense these days. For those of us who are heavily invested in Canon lenses, it can be rather frustrating to see the competition racing past Canon in terms of features (particularly AF), yet be stuck using something or having new options that is perceived as inferior.

Personally, I'm too heavily invested in Canon lenses to switch brands. I like a lot of things about Canon cameras, so I wouldn't likely switch even if I had the option. But it is still irksome to see Nikon significantly outperforming Canon in the ISO/read noise/DR department, putting advanced AF systems in almost ALL of their cameras, offering better full-color metering systems on most of their cameras (the 1D X is the FIRST Canon body to get such a thing, and here's to hoping the 5D III gets the new 100k pixel metering and AF assist system as well), etc.

Canon needs to compete. They have demonstrated they can with the 1D X...now they need to prove they WILL with all the rest of their cameras released from here on out. AF is just a talking point when it comes to the things Canon has dropped the ball on relative to the competition.

Personally I think people have been so brainwashed about the 5DII AF system that even when presented withevidence to the contrary are in total denial. A can do frame of mind is needed to turn this into a will do reality - instead of a 'any other camera' is NEEDED to capture something moving.

I wonder how many people who quote the 'useless' AF system have had real hands on experience without the use of a 'pro' AF system ie a 7D and a 5DII?

I wonder how many people HAVE to have the latest and greatest before they believe that a halfway decent photo can be taken?  Yet week in week out we see evidence of first class images produced on older technology - such as the 5D classic, 20D, 450D and the like

I wonder how many people believe that ONLY the centre point can be used for AF? Well here is a picture from last night, in poor light, with the 5D2 using all points AF. According to the pundits the AF system on the 5D2 is so bad that this is not possible - so here is yet more proof that the AF system isn't that bad - exif is intact is you want to see it.


2 flash used with PW mini and flex - another rubbished system that still seems to work. Was taking pictures at over 50ft tonight - double the distance the pundits say that it will work
(http://www.squibb.org.uk/pictures/IMG_5544x.JPG)

Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: image2paint on February 29, 2012, 12:00:20 AM
Don't u just love people posting images of their pets, babies and children :-) and in a 5d mark iii forum haha even better.

Dog- this is an example of my centred weighted image ! See how good the autofocus is ! See !
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: Musouka on February 29, 2012, 12:07:38 AM
I have been reading all the ramblings in this massive post and I will just say this:
the new 5DMIII will have :

New processors
New Auto-focus system
22 MP
Reduction in noise is probably the biggest impact

the rest will be odds and ends with a button here and there. The big issue for me this year is the amount of cash going from me to Canon! I was holding out for this as well as the new 24-70 ! so it's going to be an expensive year!

+1

Also:

- More shots per second (a previous rumor stated 6.9fps)
- 100% VF vs 98%
- 3.2" screen with 1Million Dots vs 3" with 920K Dots
- Mode Lock Button (important!)
- Infra Red Flash Control
- Better Weather Sealing (hopefully)
- 2 storage cards vs 1 for the 5D2
- Better Movie Capabilities
- More accessories (maybe a WiFi and GPS add-ons)

And who knows what else...

Also, the price is not finalized so there is no point arguing over that. Again, if some people see the Nikon D800 to be the better value for money, go ahead. Just don't try to force such opinions on others :) 
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wookiee2cu on February 29, 2012, 12:10:22 AM
Just saw this thread, hope it's not true http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3705.0.html (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3705.0.html)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 29, 2012, 12:12:49 AM
Don't u just love people posting images of their pets, babies and children :-) and in a 5d mark iii forum haha even better.

Dog- this is an example of my centred weighted image ! See how good the autofocus is ! See !

You missed the point - according to the non 5D2 users this shot is impossible as the AF is 'useless' It is relevant as there is a clamour to move away from the useless system to a 1DX level AF.

This is not one of my pets either.

Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: wickidwombat on February 29, 2012, 12:18:41 AM
I wonder how many people believe that ONLY the centre point can be used for AF? Well here is a picture from last night, in poor light, with the 5D2 using all points AF. According to the pundits the AF system on the 5D2 is so bad that this is not possible - so here is yet more proof that the AF system isn't that bad - exif is intact is you want to see it.

I've found in low key studio setup with just low power modeling lamps and a totally dark room the other points will not even lock on with an f4 lens period. same lens on the 1D no problem any point lock on strait away
but in this situation its not a problem to focus and recompose using the center point.

now that i've gotten over the shock of going from a 1D AF system to the 5D AF and got ways around the problems i encountered it doesnt bother me. I'm mostly looking forward to having an AF i dont have to worry about. It does'nt have to be the all singing all dancing 1Dx system. I just want it to work with having to mess around with it.

And i find AI servo back focuses so i just stopped trying to use that on the 5D at all

Also I have found the 5D mk2 AF system works extremely well with my 600f4.5 FD lens...  ;D
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: briansquibb on February 29, 2012, 12:26:59 AM
I wonder how many people believe that ONLY the centre point can be used for AF? Well here is a picture from last night, in poor light, with the 5D2 using all points AF. According to the pundits the AF system on the 5D2 is so bad that this is not possible - so here is yet more proof that the AF system isn't that bad - exif is intact is you want to see it.

I've found in low key studio setup with just low power modeling lamps and a totally dark room the other points will not even lock on with an f4 lens period. same lens on the 1D no problem any point lock on strait away
but in this situation its not a problem to focus and recompose using the center point.

now that i've gotten over the shock of going from a 1D AF system to the 5D AF and got ways around the problems i encountered it doesnt bother me. I'm mostly looking forward to having an AF i dont have to worry about. It does'nt have to be the all singing all dancing 1Dx system. I just want it to work with having to mess around with it.

And i find AI servo back focuses so i just stopped trying to use that on the 5D at all

Also I have found the 5D mk2 AF system works extremely well with my 600f4.5 FD lens...  ;D

I am a dab hand at locking exposure and focussing before recomposing so I get a high percentage of keepers - just as well when doing a wedding :D
Title: Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
Post by: jrista on February 29, 2012, 12:39:26 AM
Personally I think people have been so brainwashed about the 5DII AF system that even when presented withevidence to the contrary are in total denial. A can do frame of mind is needed to turn this into a will do reality - instead of a 'any other camera' is NEEDED to capture something moving.

I wonder how many people who quote the 'useless' AF system have had real hands on experience without the use of a 'pro' AF system ie a 7D and a 5DII?

I wonder how many people HAVE to have the latest and greatest before they believe that a halfway decent photo can be taken?  Yet week in week out we see evidence of first class images produced on older technology - such as the 5D classic, 20D, 450D and the like

First off, shooting a photo of a sitting dog in low light is an entirely different story than shooting a fast moving bird that can and does change direction on a dime in low light just after sunset. For the record, I own both a 450D (which has an AF system about the same as the 5D II) and a 7D. I spent a LONG time trying to shoot birds with my 450D, most of the time right around sunset as my day job would never let me get out there sooner to shoot during broad daylight. I pushed that camera to the absolute limits, and it did ok, but I never once got a shot that I could call "professional". Within a week of owning and using the 7D, I was getting shots that I stopped dreaming were possible. Still nothing I would really call professional, not on the level of Art Morris and similar photographers, but good enough that I actually believe I can improve my skill and one day soon call some of my shots "professional".

There IS a difference with AF systems when it comes to AI Servo tracking performance, particularly when you have more higher-precision cross-type points. With the 450D, the camera would spend too much time trying to find that focus lock. I either missed focus completely because it would give up, or I wouldn't nail focus where I wanted it, and the key part of my subject would be just barely, but noticeably, out of focus. Since there was only one cross-type point in the center, it was difficult to track a moving bird across the sky where it may not always be dead on the center point. The advancements the 7D brought to the table were more than simply 19 cross-type points with broad frame spread, though. It brought some extremely useful dynamic point expansion features and configuration options that helped me tune the camera such that it could keep focus