canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => Canon General => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on December 07, 2010, 11:51:32 AM

Title: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: Canon Rumors on December 07, 2010, 11:51:32 AM
600D Not unexpected, but a new Rebel will arrive in 2011.

I’m told it will be announced in the April timeframe.

There will be no Rebel XS successor. Expect the T2i to become the entry level Rebel.

5D Mark III Nothing of note. I do expect it to arrive in 2011 in some form.

7D Mark II There won’t be a 7D replacement until at least 2012.

1Ds Mark IV Something is coming at the end of 2011, I’ve had a few more assurances that the camera will be a departure from the current 1Ds family.

1D Mark V Nothing I’m told about the Mark V I put much stock in. Full frame comes up as expected. This camera is probably still in very early testing and development.

The merging of the 1D/1Ds may occur in 2012. There are some signs to suggest the possibility, the biggest one being the departure the next 1Ds will take (maybe even the name of the camera).

Mirrorless Nothing of note has been mentioned lately.

PowerShot The usual upgrades can be expected to start in late January. I’ve received nothing out of the ordinary.

Megapixels The megapixel war is not over, even if Canon is the only one fighting it. Expect large increases in the next 12 months.

cr

Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: Vishal on December 07, 2010, 11:55:21 AM
The megapixel war is not over, even if Canon is the only one fighting it. Expect large increases in the next 12 months.
Damn It!  >:(
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on December 07, 2010, 12:11:26 PM
5D Mark III
Nothing of note.  I do expect it to arrive in 2011 in some form.

I'm looking forward to ordering the 5DIII in 2011 - I'm sure I'll be able to order it along with the 24-70mm f/2.8L IS zoom lens, a herd of unicorns, a perpetual motion machine, and many other wonderful, mythical products...

CR1 indeed...   :o
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: hpoul on December 07, 2010, 12:16:40 PM
i'm thinking about buying a 5dII - do you think i should wait for the 5d Mark III? (i wouldn't have a problem to wait 3 months.. but if it's going to be more like a year i would probably go with the mark II for now :) ) any thoughts?
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: CR Backup Admin on December 07, 2010, 12:24:10 PM
i'm thinking about buying a 5dII - do you think i should wait for the 5d Mark III? (i wouldn't have a problem to wait 3 months.. but if it's going to be more like a year i would probably go with the mark II for now :) ) any thoughts?

No one knows.  3 months, 6 months, 2 years?  Its all just guesses based on past new model introductions.  My take is that the 5d MK II is selling very well, so Canon sees no need to introduce a replacement that would be just a minor upgrade, but cost more.

The rumors of any substantial changes are just the dreams, as are the comments about poor AF performance from those who don't use one.

I've had mine from the first batch that was shipped in late November 2008 and its been great.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on December 07, 2010, 12:33:31 PM
...as are the comments about poor AF performance from those who don't use one.

"Poor AF performance" is definitely not true...but I can say from experience that the 5DII's AF performance is not as good as the 7D, and the 5DII has trouble tracking moving subjects where the direction of movement is toward or away from the camera (although that's probably a combination of less effective AF and longer shutter lag).

For stationary subjects, the 5DII's center AF point is excellent.  The off-center points, besides being insufficiently spread out, are single-orientation points that sometimes hunt for focus, in my experience. 
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: MK5GTI on December 07, 2010, 12:44:37 PM
hopefully the new Rebel will have a good video AF, Phase deteaction would be good.... or else we are so behind.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: traveller on December 07, 2010, 01:26:11 PM
...as are the comments about poor AF performance from those who don't use one.

"Poor AF performance" is definitely not true...but I can say from experience that the 5DII's AF performance is not as good as the 7D, and the 5DII has trouble tracking moving subjects where the direction of movement is toward or away from the camera (although that's probably a combination of less effective AF and longer shutter lag).

For stationary subjects, the 5DII's center AF point is excellent.  The off-center points, besides being insufficiently spread out, are single-orientation points that sometimes hunt for focus, in my experience.

Out of interest, do you find this holds true with slower lenses that don't activate the cross type sensors?
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: x-vision on December 07, 2010, 01:38:14 PM
A 600D next year would be quite unexpected actually. What are they going to improve there without stepping on the 60D toes ???

The 1DsIV rumor is very plausible. The new 50mp studio camera does not need to come in the familiar 1Ds form-factor.

An update of the 1DIV is very, very probable next year.
This is the camera that needs an update the most in the Canon lineup - despite that it's newer than the 1DsIII.
The 1DIV successor is blocking all other updates (5DIII, 7DII, etc.), so unless Canon is planning to not release any new cameras next year, the 1DIV will be the first one to be updated.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: KyleSTL on December 07, 2010, 01:46:31 PM
So Canon will allow Nikon to completely dominate the entry level spot with the D3100 at 14MP (vs. 10 for the XS), 12800 ISO (vs. 1600 for the XS), and 1080p24 (vs. no video for the XS).  I thought this is where the two companies made their big money (smaller margin, but much higher volume).  Unless Canon replaces the XS with the T1i at a bigger discount ($50-100) when the 600D arrives and the T2i moves down.

Currently
Nikon D3100 @ $700 MSRP/$600 street >> Canon XS @ $550 MSRP/$500 street
and is still better than Canon T1i @ $750 MSRP/$600 street (except in both cases that the D3100 is AF-S lens only)

If the T1i dropped to $500 street, Canon would sell hundreds of thousands more than they already have.

If a 600D is released in early 2011 what will the specs be?  Won't it out-spec the 7D (excluding AF, build quality, micro-adjust and a few other items) and 60D?

What would be nice is if Canon started transitioning (starting with the 600D) to pentaprisms in all EOS cameras  :D  They wouldn't need to change the coverage or magnification, but just change from mirrors to prisms to have a nice, bright view through the VF.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: x-vision on December 07, 2010, 01:58:59 PM
So Canon will allow Nikon to completely dominate the entry level spot with the D3100 .

The 550D is the #1 selling camera - and it's more expensive than the D3100.
So, the D3100 is not dominating anything.

Quote
If a 600D is released in early 2011 what will the specs be?  Won't it out-spec the 7D (excluding AF, build quality, micro-adjust and a few other items) and 60D?

Completely agree with that.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: davidpeter on December 07, 2010, 02:02:35 PM
Bring out a damn new 5Dwith 30+ MP and I sell all my Canon gear. Fed up with this S____. I have already stoped buying lenses.

Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on December 07, 2010, 02:37:02 PM
\
"Poor AF performance" is definitely not true...but I can say from experience that the 5DII's AF performance is not as good as the 7D, and the 5DII has trouble tracking moving subjects where the direction of movement is toward or away from the camera (although that's probably a combination of less effective AF and longer shutter lag).

For stationary subjects, the 5DII's center AF point is excellent.  The off-center points, besides being insufficiently spread out, are single-orientation points that sometimes hunt for focus, in my experience.

Out of interest, do you find this holds true with slower lenses that don't activate the cross type sensors?

The cross-type sensors on the 7D (all 19 AF points) and the 5DII (just the center AF point) are all f/5.6-sensitive.  I suspect you're thinking of the high-precision f/2.8-sensitive AF points.  On the 5DII, that's the center one and the 'invisible' assist points above and below the center, and those are all f/2.8-sensitive single orientation sensors (i.e. for the center point, the horizontal f/2.8 sensor is 'superimposed' on the f/5.6 cross sensor).  On the 7D, just the center AF point is high-precision f/2.8-sensitive, and that's a pair of diagonal lines (i.e. a 45° rotated f/2.8 sensor superimposed on the f/5.6 cross sensor).

But, to answer your question, I do see a difference between the center f/2.8 and peripheral AF points in cases where DoF is really thin and AF accuracy is most important, i.e. with the 85mm f/1.2L II shot wide open, or even with the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II at the long end shot near the MFD.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on December 07, 2010, 03:06:36 PM
A 600D next year would be quite unexpected actually.

There will be a new Rebel next year.  Updates to entry level/consumer lines are nearly as certain as death and taxes.   What was there, really, to update on the S90?

What are they going to improve there without stepping on the 60D toes ???

How did they update the 50D without stepping on the 7D's toes?  They took some things away, like AFMA. 
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: kubelik on December 07, 2010, 03:15:27 PM
if canon can drop a 60D that doesn't step on the 7D's toes, I think it'll be pretty easy for them to think up a 600D that doesn't step on the 7D's toes ... or even the 60D's toes for that matter.

canon could very simply pop out a 600D that is feature-wise nearly identical to the 60D but minus the articulating screen and the prism viewfinder ... and that would basically justify the $100 that will separate the two bodies at retail.

piece of cake
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: macfly on December 07, 2010, 06:15:46 PM
I know you guys will hate me saying this, but for the 7th job in a row I'm renting the Nikon D3s because it is just so much nicer on skin, especially at low light, than my old 1Ds Mklll.  I also am blown away by how much crisper their 24-70 zoom is. I thought they'd never equal Canon again, but right now they really have stolen a march on Canon.

If Canon don't get their act together soon, and at least let us know when the 1Ds MklV is coming I'm jumping ship, and going back to Nikon altogether, (after exactly 20 years!) because a year of renting just isn't worth doing waiting and hoping Canon will introduce a camera that may never appear!
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: KyleSTL on December 07, 2010, 06:34:44 PM
So Canon will allow Nikon to completely dominate the entry level spot with the D3100 .

The 550D is the #1 selling camera - and it's more expensive than the D3100.
So, the D3100 is not dominating anything.

I agree that the T2i (550D) is a great camera and it sells extremely well, but if Canon could release a camera at the Rebel XS (1000D) pricepoint that isn't completely anemic and obsolete they would steal even more sales away from Nikon (mostly the D3100 and the remaining stock of D3000s).  A 12MP XS-replacement with 720p and live view with 3200 ISO max would be a very compelling product, although that would mean it would have to share the Digic 4 processor of the 500D and 550D and not the Digic III of the 450D/1000D (making it more expensive to produce).
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: kubelik on December 07, 2010, 06:55:22 PM
I know you guys will hate me saying this, but for the 7th job in a row I'm renting the Nikon D3s because it is just so much nicer on skin, especially at low light, than my old 1Ds Mklll.  I also am blown away by how much crisper their 24-70 zoom is. I thought they'd never equal Canon again, but right now they really have stolen a march on Canon.

If Canon don't get their act together soon, and at least let us know when the 1Ds MklV is coming I'm jumping ship, and going back to Nikon altogether, (after exactly 20 years!) because a year of renting just isn't worth doing waiting and hoping Canon will introduce a camera that may never appear!

mac, I don't think anyone can fault you with wanting to go back to nikon, especially given that you're actually making a living off of your equipment.  I'm intrigued that you see such a huge difference between the canon and nikon systems in how they render skin tone, but I've heard it from others ... guess something I'm not seeing in the files.

really great work!  the shot of mila kunis you have on your page really is, as you said, stunning (although I know you were talking about the actress rather than the photo)
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: Sinsear on December 07, 2010, 10:08:27 PM
5D Mark III
Nothing of note.  I do expect it to arrive in 2011 in some form.

I'm looking forward to ordering the 5DIII in 2011 - I'm sure I'll be able to order it along with the 24-70mm f/2.8L IS zoom lens, a herd of unicorns, a perpetual motion machine, and many other wonderful, mythical products...

CR1 indeed...   :o
What's so incredible about a 5d3 in 2011? It would follow the previous lifespan cycle established by the 5d and 5d2. Unless you know something that I don't, I personally anticipate the 5d3 to come out in 2011 as well.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: Bob Howland on December 07, 2010, 11:44:58 PM
It doesn't look like Canon is planning on introducing anything to compete with the Nikon D3s at low light levels. I just took some pictures of Yuletide reenactors at a local historical village/museum, in a room lit with 3 candles, that's it, 3 frigging candles. A typical exposure was 1/15 sec and f/1.4 at ISO3200. Image quality as good as the D3s at ISO51200 would get me to 1/60 sec and f/2.8 and allow me to use my 24-70 and 17-35 zoom lenses.

Is anybody at Canon listening?
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: macfly on December 08, 2010, 01:18:01 AM
Thanks kubelik, the Mila pix were all with the EOS, none of the Nikon work is published yet, so I can't put it up yet, but the difference really is startling. The Nikon genuinely is blowing my mind and opening creative possibilities I never thought I'd ever see in terms of image capture and quality in low light. When I rent it for the shoot on Saturday I'll make sure to do some side by sides to show you guys. I'll keep it to the 135mm f2 lenses as they are both excellent, and just do 800/1600/2400/5000 ISO
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: Stuart on December 08, 2010, 05:29:33 AM
Its a CR1!
a 600D before a 7dMk2 - only if they reuse the 18M sensor a 4th time. if so maybe they want to add the 60 flip screen and movie mode AF to deal with panasonic.

Or If the 600D has say a 22MP sensor with good iSo then i'd be interested (in the iSo) but the only reason i'd expected this to be before the 7d is that a digic 5 processor was unavailable in the near time frame.

Maybe they want to catch up on the ISO front and go down to 16Mpixels for smaller files too - but they have not done thi before.
Anyway its CR1 speculation.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: kubelik on December 08, 2010, 09:29:05 AM
Thanks kubelik, the Mila pix were all with the EOS, none of the Nikon work is published yet, so I can't put it up yet, but the difference really is startling. The Nikon genuinely is blowing my mind and opening creative possibilities I never thought I'd ever see in terms of image capture and quality in low light. When I rent it for the shoot on Saturday I'll make sure to do some side by sides to show you guys. I'll keep it to the 135mm f2 lenses as they are both excellent, and just do 800/1600/2400/5000 ISO

very much looking forward to seeing that
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: KyleSTL on December 08, 2010, 09:38:02 AM
The only precedent Canon has for stepping down in resolution is the Powershot G10 -> G11 (14.7MP vs. 10MP).  As far as lifecycle goes, the 5D Mark II has another 300-some days to match the life of the original 5D.  But, there is the caveat that the 5D was released 11 months after 1Ds Mark II and 5D Mark II was released 13 months after 1Ds Mark III.  I think we're in for a changing of lifecycles with this next batch of cameras.  Check out this thread for the analysis on previous lifecycles: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,333.msg4550.html#msg4550
and
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,333.msg4869.html#msg4869

BTW, macfly, I checked out your website.  Some awesome celebs you've shot.  Heidi Klum, Charlize Theron, Ed Norton.  Jealous....  Awesome work.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: kubelik on December 08, 2010, 10:22:50 AM
a question that's been bouncing around in my mind is, are we going to get to some critical point where traditional digital update cycles have a paradigm shift and move into longer replacement timelines, maybe 4-5 years instead of 2-3?

in the first decade of digital camera technology, we saw huge jumps in capability every two years, which warranted tight refresh cycles to stay ahead of the competition.  things appear to be leveling out for all the major manufacturers right now, however -- I know none of the cameras on market can be described as "perfect" but there definitely seems to be diminishing returns with every cycle of updates.

more AF points, more FPS, more or less pixels, weathersealing, viewfinders ... all of these sort of have a max-out point and we seem to be getting pretty close to it.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: CR Backup Admin on December 08, 2010, 11:26:59 AM
a question that's been bouncing around in my mind is, are we going to get to some critical point where traditional digital update cycles have a paradigm shift and move into longer replacement timelines, maybe 4-5 years instead of 2-3?

in the first decade of digital camera technology, we saw huge jumps in capability every two years, which warranted tight refresh cycles to stay ahead of the competition.  things appear to be leveling out for all the major manufacturers right now, however -- I know none of the cameras on market can be described as "perfect" but there definitely seems to be diminishing returns with every cycle of updates.

more AF points, more FPS, more or less pixels, weathersealing, viewfinders ... all of these sort of have a max-out point and we seem to be getting pretty close to it.

I'm sure that manufacturers would like this, however, there is always the competition to deal with.  If the competition adds a new model with more bells and whistles, then you have to match or lose sales.  Right now, Nikon has not uped the ante, so Canon is free to take their time.  Introduction of a new model can be a very expensive thing, particularly if it involves a new sensor.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: Stuart on December 08, 2010, 01:04:09 PM
With the Bells and whistles being differentatiors, the market is open for a module based approach where you buy a base level body then add modules in hardware or software as you need them.

Sensors are the main differentatiors and exceed the limits of much of the glass used. So expect better dynamic range, ISO performance, global shutter, etc to keep driving sensor performance.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: macfly on December 08, 2010, 04:04:18 PM
scalesusa, you say that "Right now, Nikon has not uped the ante"

This can only mean you are not working with these two side by side, Nikon has left the EOS 1Ds MkIII for dead with the D3s. I can promise you Nikon are blowing Canon away right now. The quality, the low light ability, the incredible ability to run tethered shooting bursts of 30+ frames non stop with Capture One, and the amazingly sharp glass.

The difference is as great as the one Canon made with the original EOS 1 which got me, and everyone else, to sell my slow and awkward F4 and make the switch to Canon.

The appaling mess of the G12, which I hate, after the G10, which i loved, has really put me on alert that Canon may well have lost the plot, and not be listening to people who work with the things everyday.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: Sinsear on December 08, 2010, 04:38:53 PM
Introduction of a new model can be a very expensive thing, particularly if it involves a new sensor.
That's clearly not a problem for a big company like Canon. Just look at Intel, they spend billions and billions to upgrade their manufacturing processes when switching to a new architecture for their chips.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: Sinsear on December 08, 2010, 04:41:13 PM
a question that's been bouncing around in my mind is, are we going to get to some critical point where traditional digital update cycles have a paradigm shift and move into longer replacement timelines, maybe 4-5 years instead of 2-3?

in the first decade of digital camera technology, we saw huge jumps in capability every two years, which warranted tight refresh cycles to stay ahead of the competition.  things appear to be leveling out for all the major manufacturers right now, however -- I know none of the cameras on market can be described as "perfect" but there definitely seems to be diminishing returns with every cycle of updates.

more AF points, more FPS, more or less pixels, weathersealing, viewfinders ... all of these sort of have a max-out point and we seem to be getting pretty close to it.
The only thing I can think of that isn't hitting a "max-out point" is the processor and storage medium. Someday, I want to be able to burst 120fps continuous for an indefinite amount of time.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: Sinsear on December 08, 2010, 04:42:18 PM
It doesn't look like Canon is planning on introducing anything to compete with the Nikon D3s at low light levels. I just took some pictures of Yuletide reenactors at a local historical village/museum, in a room lit with 3 candles, that's it, 3 frigging candles. A typical exposure was 1/15 sec and f/1.4 at ISO3200. Image quality as good as the D3s at ISO51200 would get me to 1/60 sec and f/2.8 and allow me to use my 24-70 and 17-35 zoom lenses.

Is anybody at Canon listening?
I don't think Canon is, but I certainly am.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: KyleSTL on December 08, 2010, 05:12:35 PM
scalesusa, you say that "Right now, Nikon has not uped the ante"

This can only mean you are not working with these two side by side, Nikon has left the EOS 1Ds MkIII for dead with the D3s. I can promise you Nikon are blowing Canon away right now. The quality, the low light ability, the incredible ability to run tethered shooting bursts of 30+ frames non stop with Capture One, and the amazingly sharp glass.

The difference is as great as the one Canon made with the original EOS 1 which got me, and everyone else, to sell my slow and awkward F4 and make the switch to Canon.

The appaling mess of the G12, which I hate, after the G10, which i loved, has really put me on alert that Canon may well have lost the plot, and not be listening to people who work with the things everyday.
To be fair, though, the 1Ds Mark III vs. D3s is one fight between the two that Nikon is clearly dominating by a wide margin. 

Here is my take on the other matchups:
draw D3000 and Rebel XS (1000D)
D3100 over T1i (500D)
T2i (550D) over D90
draw D7000 and 60D (different approaches, but worthy competitors)
7D over D300s
D700 over 5D Mark II (although very close, and very different approaches)
D3s over 1D Mark IV (price competitors)
D3s over 1Ds Mark III (form-factor competitors, but again very different)
1Ds Mark III over D3x (slightly)

So [in my opinion] Nikon has a 4-3-2 lead over Canon.  But at the top, I would give Nikon the advantage.  I will follow up my analysis stating I haven't used the vast majority of the current cameras, but it my research online regarding general reviews and overall image quality this is how I see the shaking out.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: ptk on December 08, 2010, 06:49:28 PM
Admin, if you have some free time (and rumors are slow like they are now) could you put together a list of quotes from the "THERE WILL BE NO 60D!" people?  I think it'd be very amusing as well as relevant since we're now seeing some people claiming the merging of the 1D and 1Ds lines as well as other things.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: niko on December 08, 2010, 07:57:03 PM
scalesusa, you say that "Right now, Nikon has not uped the ante"

This can only mean you are not working with these two side by side, Nikon has left the EOS 1Ds MkIII for dead with the D3s. I can promise you Nikon are blowing Canon away right now. The quality, the low light ability, the incredible ability to run tethered shooting bursts of 30+ frames non stop with Capture One, and the amazingly sharp glass.

The difference is as great as the one Canon made with the original EOS 1 which got me, and everyone else, to sell my slow and awkward F4 and make the switch to Canon.

The appaling mess of the G12, which I hate, after the G10, which i loved, has really put me on alert that Canon may well have lost the plot, and not be listening to people who work with the things everyday.
To be fair, though, the 1Ds Mark III vs. D3s is one fight between the two that Nikon is clearly dominating by a wide margin. 

Here is my take on the other matchups:
draw D3000 and Rebel XS (1000D)
D3100 over T1i (500D)
T2i (550D) over D90
draw D7000 and 60D (different approaches, but worthy competitors)
7D over D300s
D700 over 5D Mark II (although very close, and very different approaches)
D3s over 1D Mark IV (price competitors)
D3s over 1Ds Mark III (form-factor competitors, but again very different)
1Ds Mark III over D3x (slightly)

So [in my opinion] Nikon has a 4-3-2 lead over Canon.  But at the top, I would give Nikon the advantage.  I will follow up my analysis stating I haven't used the vast majority of the current cameras, but it my research online regarding general reviews and overall image quality this is how I see the shaking out.

Nikon clearly has the edge in terms of low light performance currently, however the 1Ds III was never meant to compete with a D3s as that camera came out much later.

Judging by the rumors around the 5d II announcement, I believe that Canon had the technology to release a camera with excellent AF and ISO performance based on the 19 point AF and a lower MP sensor, however Canon underestimated the push by Nikon to gain market share and chose to a different route instead.  I expect Canon to address the shortcomings (both real or perceived) in the next gen cameras.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: c.d.embrey on December 09, 2010, 10:38:58 AM
I know you guys will hate me saying this, but for the 7th job in a row I'm renting the Nikon D3s because it is just so much nicer on skin, especially at low light, than my old 1Ds Mklll.  I also am blown away by how much crisper their 24-70 zoom is. I thought they'd never equal Canon again, but right now they really have stolen a march on Canon.

If Canon don't get their act together soon, and at least let us know when the 1Ds MklV is coming I'm jumping ship, and going back to Nikon altogether, (after exactly 20 years!) because a year of renting just isn't worth doing waiting and hoping Canon will introduce a camera that may never appear!

mac, I don't think anyone can fault you with wanting to go back to nikon, especially given that you're actually making a living off of your equipment.  I'm intrigued that you see such a huge difference between the canon and nikon systems in how they render skin tone, but I've heard it from others ... guess something I'm not seeing in the files.

really great work!  the shot of mila kunis you have on your page really is, as you said, stunning (although I know you were talking about the actress rather than the photo)

If I use it regularly I own it. If I use it occasionally I rent it. That just makes good economic sense.

It sounds like you should have bought that Nikon D3s a long time ago.

BTW this isn't Canon bashing ... it's just admitting that, for some people, Nikon has regained the lead in Pro Cameras and Lenses.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: Macadameane on December 09, 2010, 10:57:34 AM
I know this is OT, but shouldn't this thread be in "EOS Bodies" ?
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: infrahead on December 09, 2010, 04:02:06 PM
Concerning "PowerShot The usual upgrades can be expected to start in late January. I’ve received nothing out of the ordinary."
I'm thinking of buying the Powershot S95. Should I hold off for a while?
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: Etienne on December 09, 2010, 04:49:46 PM
I hope Canon steps up their game with the 5DIII in 2011. They need an all-round convincing FF in a small body with top-notch video features.  If it wasn't for my interest in video I would have bought the D700 over my 5DII.

I think Canon dropped the ball with the 60D. I'm looking for a second body that can do video, but even with my canon L lenses I'm inclined to buy a Panasonic GH2, a pancake and the 7-14mm f4. It looks like Panasonic has set the standard for video in compact cameras now with the GH2. Full reviews will tell the whole story, but initial looks are pretty convincing so far, and in a much smaller package. Canon should have improved the video AF, and included full res hdmi out on record with the 60D. Now the GH2 is a much more attractive option, unless you need that body primarily for stills.

If the 5DIII doesn't beat Nikon's D700 replacement at least in Photography (low light, AF, build quality, responsiveness), I'll probably jump ship to Nikon, and use the Panasonic for video.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: CR Backup Admin on December 09, 2010, 06:57:17 PM
Concerning "PowerShot The usual upgrades can be expected to start in late January. I’ve received nothing out of the ordinary."
I'm thinking of buying the Powershot S95. Should I hold off for a while?

The S95 just came out.  There might be another next fall.  I did not like my S90 due to its small buttons, but that works well for many.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: infrahead on December 10, 2010, 02:31:52 AM
Concerning "PowerShot The usual upgrades can be expected to start in late January. I’ve received nothing out of the ordinary."
I'm thinking of buying the Powershot S95. Should I hold off for a while?

The S95 just came out.  There might be another next fall.  I did not like my S90 due to its small buttons, but that works well for many.

Thanks!

I actually bought the panny LX5, but returned it 'cause it wasn't really pocketable = it won't fit easily in a jeans/shirt pocket. Otherwise I liked it, and it's in many ways a superior camera compared to the S95.
But now I'm going for the S95 since I'll be able to have it with me everywhere.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: torger on December 10, 2010, 04:32:48 AM
Canon is receiving quite a lot of bashing for not having the same low light performance as Nikon, and not so much appreciation for having higher resolution.

If you're a landscape photographer or studio photographer it seems to me that low ISO performance is key, and then resolution is an important factor. Some use medium format just for the resolution.

For my personal photo style, I'd rather go for higher resolution at low ISO and slightly worse high ISO performance. Needing large DOF and therefore often working around f/8 - f/11 which makes resolution generally diffraction limited I'd still could use as much as ~50 megapixels on a full frame sensor before additional pixels does not give significant value.

The exceptionally low noise at ISO100 in the sensor of Nikon's new D7000 shows that low noise (at low ISO) is indeed possible with small pixels.

However, if you need to shoot in non-ideal lighting conditions with short shutter speeds, then good high ISO performance is necessary of course. I don't really think that these conflicting goals can be combined into a single camera body today. Either you optimize for high res at low ISO, or low noise at high ISO. It's unfortunate that 35mm camera bodies are not modular as larger formats, then you could have two digital backs, one for high res and one for high ISO (and you could actually upgrade a body instead of having to buy yet a new magnesium alloy body).

Anyway, for me personally, I'm not particularly worried about the rumors of 5Dmk3 having as much as 32 megapixels, rather the opposite, it seems quite attractive to me. Closing in on medium format.

I also think the view on resolution will change in the coming years. Current resolution guidelines is based on more or less obsolete film and print standards. DOF calculators use acceptable resolution as 30 microns - meaning 1 megapixel. Saying that is a sharp image is like saying 8 bit audio is clear. In some circumstances yes it is true. However, not too many years from now we'll probably have monitors with 9000x6000 pixels rather than 1920x1200.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on December 10, 2010, 07:26:08 AM
Yup, I've bought one (S95) too and it now lives in my jacket pocket.

It's the perfect small camera.

Seconded (or is that thirded?).  I really like my S95, and have taken great pictures with it in situations where bringing one of my dSLR bodies and a bag full of lenses isn't feasible.  I'm sure the G12 is also a nice camera, but the advantage of the S95 is it's small size.  The advantage of both those P&S cameras over the many other models available is the larger sensor, which means better IQ and lower noise, and the fact that they shoot RAW.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: Catastrophile on December 10, 2010, 03:43:39 PM
about mirrorless + 600D and/or 2000D:

Canon has said that the point of mirrorless cameras is not whether or not you have a mirror but that people want the image quality of a large sensor camera in a lighter package than conventional entry-level DSLR's and that canon think they can design lighter/smaller cameras without having to remove the mirror. Probably if this is coming soon, it may come in the 600D (or 2000D), with the 60D being considerably lighter than previous x0D, the Rebel line can easily and is likel to get lighter too, I won't be surprised to see this achieved by something similar to Sony's SLT design, specially that the Canon spokesman when he talked about a lighter design w the mirror, said something like (we have done it before and we can do it now), i guess he meant they did pellicle mirror before and they can do it again. I can't think of any other way to make the rebels any more compact than what they already are, SLT with EVF and the mirror fixed means that you remove a lot of bulk and weight from the traditional SLR design.
Title: Re: Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]
Post by: Ivar on December 13, 2010, 03:37:27 PM
Canon is receiving quite a lot of bashing for not having the same low light performance as Nikon, and not so much appreciation for having higher resolution.

a) In the first place it was the Canon's idea about such a product differentiation, no wonder people expect a sports camera to perform exceptionally well at high ISOs.
b) forget seeing differences in print 16MP vs 12MP. However, what makes the difference here is that those 16MP are more concentrated (denser) meaning better magnifications in the end.