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Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: simonhowes on March 04, 2012, 08:26:26 AM

Title: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: simonhowes on March 04, 2012, 08:26:26 AM
I will be attending Focus tomorrow, where Canon will be showing the 1Dx and 5D III to trade. I'll also get my hands on a D800 and D4.

Anyone have any questions they may want answering by the reps?
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: Drama79 on March 04, 2012, 08:29:54 AM
Y U NO CLEAN HDMI OUT????111!!1111ELEVEN

No. None. I'm jealous you get to play with one. I'd be interested in the feel - I'm guessing 7Dish, but with much wider, sharper images. I'll find out myself soon - can't wait to get it out there and working!
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: Flake on March 04, 2012, 08:47:36 AM
I will be attending Focus tomorrow, where Canon will be showing the 1Dx and 5D III to trade. I'll also get my hands on a D800 and D4.

Anyone have any questions they may want answering by the reps?

How far do Canon think they can go in pushing up prices before photographers just say 'stuff it I'll stick with what I have'?  Ok they're not going to want to answer it, but it does need feeding back that they can't go on increasing prices and expecting people to quietly accept it.  Two new primes introduced  with prices more than doubled; the super tele 600mm announced not shipped - re announced  with a $1000 price increase over the previous announcment!  Do they  have no understanding of what it's like out here?  How do they propose these price increases are passed on to clients?
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: simonhowes on March 04, 2012, 09:28:15 AM
Two new primes introduced  with prices more than doubled; the super tele 600mm announced not shipped - re announced  with a $1000 price increase over the previous announcment!  Do they  have no understanding of what it's like out here?  How do they propose these price increases are passed on to clients?
24mm and 28mm USM with IS?

I waited for them, the priced me out too. I'm only a poor 1st photographic assistant.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: scottkinfw on March 04, 2012, 09:33:26 AM
Bring memory cards and take pics to post if you can please.  I would be interested in results from iso's high, middle, and low range.

Thanks.

Two new primes introduced  with prices more than doubled; the super tele 600mm announced not shipped - re announced  with a $1000 price increase over the previous announcment!  Do they  have no understanding of what it's like out here?  How do they propose these price increases are passed on to clients?
24mm and 28mm USM with IS?

I waited for them, the priced me out too. I'm only a poor 1st photographic assistant.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: neuroanatomist on March 04, 2012, 09:44:53 AM
I'd really appreciate feedback on the following: Shoot the same thing at ISO 12800 on both bodies, see if there's a discernable difference in the images on the LCDs.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: TiMovie on March 04, 2012, 09:47:13 AM
* During movie shooting or if movie cropping has been set, the image cannot be magnified for manual focusing.

Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: Fleetie on March 04, 2012, 09:56:15 AM
On the 5D3:

See whether you can replicate the "black ring" issue around very bright points of light.

Shoot a glint of light off something, or maybe just the ceiling lights. Zoom in in "Playback" mode; have a look.

Now go to the camera settings menu, find "Sharpness", turn it down to minimum, and try again.

Enjoy your play!


Martin
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: m3tek44 on March 04, 2012, 10:13:37 AM
I'd really appreciate feedback on the following: Shoot the same thing at ISO 12800 on both bodies, see if there's a discernable difference in the images on the LCDs.

Nuro.... Not sure if you have said anything about purchasing 5D III but if not, have you place a order for 5D Mark III or are you on sideline?

Thanks,
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: pravkp on March 04, 2012, 10:14:27 AM
5d3: pls chk if iso 6400 = ISO 3200 from 5d2 or better. That'll do for me.  ;D
I knw going by the specs it should be better than 5d2. Just curious.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: Z on March 04, 2012, 10:18:14 AM
If you could test and compare the weather sealing of the 5D III vs. 1D X for me that'd be great. Tell me which one gives up first.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: Renato on March 04, 2012, 10:26:57 AM
Bring memory cards and take pics to post if you can please.  I would be interested in results from iso's high, middle, and low range.

Yes, please bring RAW files at ISO 12600 and above!  I cannot believe that they will not post raw files for true assesment of noise.  With NR software I can make miracles too so why not post the original stuff.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: jlev23 on March 04, 2012, 10:38:35 AM
please please bring an hdmi cable and see if you plug it in during live view if the lcd goes out or stays on!
if it does go out, see if there is a setting that lets you choose to keep it on.
thanks!
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: wockawocka on March 04, 2012, 10:43:01 AM
Yeah here's one, why are Canon always measuring ISO improvements based on Jpegs, which are compressed and usually put through the in camera noise reduction.

It's hardly a bloody measure of ISO performance is it Canon?

Same goes to Nikon.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: marekjoz on March 04, 2012, 11:01:44 AM
From ISO 6400 up I would be more than happy to see noise levels and DR in dark areas.
What I would check on your place:
1. Look for a scene, where you find a subject, which is not quite dark but comes from light shadow to complete dark.
2. Set exposure not under or over and in such a way, that :
a) the subject's luminance level was in the very bottom (left) part of histogram
b) there was enough light in the scene so highlights of the scene where on the very right side of histogram
3. Make pictures (or descibe) of what you see on lcd in the dark areas of the subject.

Is it very noisy? Do you see banding? Compare them to each other and even better to 5d2 if can have one with you.

This could tell something about DR and real iSO usability in difficult lighting conditions.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: zim on March 04, 2012, 11:12:24 AM
Bring back some ISO 3200 & 6400 RAWs for use to play with!!

Please ask them why not USB3?

Wish I could get to Focus, think it's going to me manic.... enjoy ;D
Thanks

Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: FotoTeach on March 04, 2012, 11:54:59 AM
Please ask Canon how they can justify the large price increases over their previous bodies and lenses, and so much more than their lead competitor, Nikon? Also, does Canon now feel the Video Market is more important than the needs of Still Professional Photographers, ie. Studio/Wedding, Landscape, and Fine Art? Each of my fellow Professional's is shocked by the new prices, again because of the Nikon D800 specs and prices.   
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: WarStreet on March 04, 2012, 12:11:56 PM
* During movie shooting or if movie cropping has been set, the image cannot be magnified for manual focusing.

simonhowes, thanks for this opportunity.

(1) Please ask them if the the movie crop feature is available, or if it will be available in the future by a firmware upgrade for the 5DIII.  In the specs, they have mentioned the movie crop indirectly by the sentence quoted above by TiMovie, but there was no direct reference of it anywhere.

(2) Will it be possible that we might see f8 focusing in a future firmware update ?

Thanks !
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: StudioTan on March 04, 2012, 12:14:21 PM
1.  I didn't see this in the specs, but maybe it's there?  Even though there is no uncompressed HDMI output, will it store uncompressed video on the cards?

2.  Shoot video with fast back and forth panning and bring it back.

3.  Bring back various RAW images at varying ISOs in varying lighting conditions (if possible).

I'm waiting and will decide between this and the D800.  I have no glass and will be doing 50% video, 50% stills mostly indoors with fast action, and occasional landscapes.  Also, audio/video syncing is very important as I do a lot of bands/concerts with separate high quality audio.

Thanks
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: fs454 on March 04, 2012, 12:24:49 PM
One thing we haven't been demonstrated yet:High-ISO video performance.

ISO 25600 stills look incredible for what they're worth, but again we're looking at JPEGs.

I'd love to be able to see how ISO 3200, 6400, 12800, and 25600 1080p video looks. I've been able to push my 5D to 1600 and have usable footage but for anything serious I wouldn't tip it any higher than that. I want to know what that limit is on the 5D3...if possible.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: rlarsen on March 04, 2012, 02:53:51 PM
One simple question, please.
Will the MK ll grip work on the MK lll ?

Thanks

( also, will the MK lll viewfinder be free of AF boxes on the focusing screen ? )
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: tt on March 04, 2012, 04:08:41 PM
Bring back some ISO 3200 & 6400 RAWs for use to play with!!

Please ask them why not USB3?

Wish I could get to Focus, think it's going to me manic.... enjoy ;D
Thanks

USB3 upgrade at least can be done via a USB3 card reader :)
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on March 04, 2012, 04:12:45 PM
I will be attending Focus tomorrow, where Canon will be showing the 1Dx and 5D III to trade. I'll also get my hands on a D800 and D4.

Anyone have any questions they may want answering by the reps?

I don't know if they will answer of if the reps will even have the info but how about:

Did they improve the ISO 100 dynamic range over the 5D2?
Did they take care to lessen pattern banding in low ISO shadows?
Did they lessen high ISO banding? (tentatively, looking at samples, it seems the answer might be yes)
How many stops better SNR at high ISO in RAW compared to the 5D2?

Does the AF system run AI Servo using the same CPU and thus same speed as the 1DX does (or at least the same speed regardless of what they use to drive it)?

Does it allow EC in all AutoISO modes?

Is the histogram outlined (currently you can't easily see where it tops out when you are outside under bright sun)?
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on March 04, 2012, 04:19:54 PM
Oh and is there a crop mode for movies? (it can be hard to get close to wildlife)

And if you can bring back RAW files then bring these two back:
set the camera to ISO 100 then

1. set camera to 1/8000th, if you are allowed remove lens and put on lens cap, try to keep camera as dark as you can and snap a total black frame (maybe bring a spare body cap if you can, a lens cap of various sizes if you can), it really needs to be a pitch black frame taken, no light leakage at all (maybe a lens cap on the lens combined with ISO100 and 1/8000th would be good enough if you also shield it with your body/shirt, if a lens is on the body it can't be faster than f/2.8 or it will, for sure, mess up the results due to secret boosts they apply to RAW files for fast lenses to make up for certain issues with how microlenses and all behave)

2. set the camera to a long enough shutter speed so that a nice solid chunk of an image you take is 100% utterly blown out in all channels, blow out for sure by a mile

With those two files and assuming IRIS will be able to at least partially open the files then we can find out the ISO 100 dynamic range, SNR, and pattern banding characteristics and we will then know if they are still stuck at 11ish stops DR or if they have approached or attained the 13.8 stops of the Sony/Nikon Exmor sensors. And if the ugly banding at low ISO is less or not.

Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: tt on March 04, 2012, 04:24:23 PM
From trying them today -

EDIT  - I haven't seen this mentioned and it'd be really useful for a lot of folks - If you have one, put a fast glass like 85mm 1.2 or a 50mm 1.2 and see what the focus is like.
There's a thread about focusing screens - excluding the manual focus folk, it'd be useful to see how the 5D responds to fast glass - can it consistently shoot? They should let you change lens, choose the right/quieter queue camera or sound like you're interesting in buying and they'll push a sale and maybe let you try it. Should know in 3-4 weeks, but this is a great opportunity!


The 1DX and 5D MkIII are on different stands, on metal security cables.

You're not going to get a card sneaked into the 5D i'd imagine seeing as there will be a few Canon employees a foot or so away from you. Not sure about testing the weather sealing either!

After hearing all the complaints about price - yes, it's high, but then i've heard similar at a Jessops about the 70-200 f/2.8 - and photographers still buy it.

There was a lot of folks eyeing up buying it too - the dealers are making brisk sales of the model it seems with preorders.

Fun thing definitely worth trying to see some of the Canon talks if anything appeals -

http://www.focus-on-imaging.net/news/?cat=5 (http://www.focus-on-imaging.net/news/?cat=5) (Canon talks halfway down).

Histogram - is it outlined?
I'd take Neuro's advice - take a high ISO photo and look at it zoomed in.
Maybe take shots of the lights and do the same and see if you get black halos?
Q about if movie crop feature is available.
Q about f8 focusing (it's unlikely they'll comment on it i'd imagine though)
(it's pretty evenly lit and fairly well lit in the NEC - I didn't take a meter reading, but it wasn't dark feeling).

You might get away with a HDMI cable (to see if you plug it in during live view if the LCD goes out or stays on - presumably that's not needing to attach anything to the other end jlev23?) - as it's much more unexpected than trying to sneak or ask to put a memory card in. You could either bring it up suddenly or maybe talk about video a bit first.

High ISO video might be doable.
best bet about making a dark scene - you're going to need to create your own.

For anyone going - maybe the trick is to sneak a ND filter on then test the high ISO shots and high ISO video!

PS - Have a play with the silent mode. If you're used to sound, and the sound of the 5DM2 its fun to (not) hear!

It's an upgraded 5D. Pricey, but think of that as a 1 time cost that you get benefits from every time you use it it seems :)
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: DJL329 on March 04, 2012, 04:46:40 PM
One simple question, please.
Will the MK ll grip work on the MK lll ?

Thanks

( also, will the MK lll viewfinder be free of AF boxes on the focusing screen ? )

1.  According to Canon's website, no.  On the day the 5D Mark III was announced, the BG-E6 did list the Mark III as compatible, but was removed the following day.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/modelSNACompatibles.action?accessoryCid=0901e024800c4fcf&accessoryModelName=Battery+Grip+BG-E6 (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/modelSNACompatibles.action?accessoryCid=0901e024800c4fcf&accessoryModelName=Battery+Grip+BG-E6)

2.  "It uses a transparent LCD to superimpose a customizable combination of focus points and gridlines directly over the image."

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Frame-Digital-Camera-24-105mm/dp/B007FGZ1V0 (http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Frame-Digital-Camera-24-105mm/dp/B007FGZ1V0)

"This high-grade viewfinder is further enhanced with the integration of a superimposed transparent LCD that displays autofocus and exposure information. This newly developed Intelligent Viewfinder gives a range of information, and is easily turned off to return you to the clear, unadulterated view from the optical finder itself."

http://www.photouae.org/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-has-finally-arrived (http://www.photouae.org/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-has-finally-arrived)
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: tt on March 04, 2012, 05:18:50 PM
One simple question, please.
Will the MK ll grip work on the MK lll ?

Thanks

( also, will the MK lll viewfinder be free of AF boxes on the focusing screen ? )

Canon rep confirmed that the BG-E6 I think for the 5D Mark II doesn't work for the 5DM3.
And the 5DM3's BG-E11 doesn't work with the 5D Mark II.

From what he said - it's physically a different shape/connection.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: simonhowes on March 04, 2012, 05:48:39 PM
Cheers all. I'll see what I can do. Doubt I'll be able to slip in a CF card.

I had a private showing at Arri of the 1Dx and C300 days after they were announced, they wouldn't let us use cards then, so I doubt they would let me at a trade show.

I doubt I'll get any numbers from the reps, they tend to repeat what is in the marketing materials.

Video cropping, HDMI out, taking photos at high ISOs is my main area of interest. If there are no cards in the camera, it may be hard to view on screen as it will disappear after a few seconds.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: Policar on March 04, 2012, 09:03:23 PM
Cheers all. I'll see what I can do. Doubt I'll be able to slip in a CF card.

I had a private showing at Arri of the 1Dx and C300 days after they were announced, they wouldn't let us use cards then, so I doubt they would let me at a trade show.

I doubt I'll get any numbers from the reps, they tend to repeat what is in the marketing materials.

Video cropping, HDMI out, taking photos at high ISOs is my main area of interest. If there are no cards in the camera, it may be hard to view on screen as it will disappear after a few seconds.

Ask about video resolution vs the 5DII!  If the 5DIII is using a method similar to the c300 (full read out bayer sensor but no bayer interpolation or downscaling) and using a full raster read out it should be incredibly sharp.  If it's pixel binning then debayering or line skipping or something it could be softer than the 5DII.  Ask about resolution and sensor readout relative to the c300!
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: bigblue1ca on March 04, 2012, 09:25:14 PM
I'd really appreciate feedback on the following: Shoot the same thing at ISO 12800 on both bodies, see if there's a discernable difference in the images on the LCDs.

I'll put in another vote for this.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: nighstar on March 04, 2012, 09:32:03 PM
If you could test and compare the weather sealing of the 5D III vs. 1D X for me that'd be great. Tell me which one gives up first.

maybe this will help re: weather sealing of the Mark III?

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/inside_canon_eos_5d_mark_iii.do (http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/inside_canon_eos_5d_mark_iii.do)

see: Related Links - EOS 5D Mark III - weather sealing
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: messus on March 05, 2012, 03:17:26 AM
Ask about file sizes (RAW) on 1DX, can not seem to find any info about it.

5D3 seem to be (RAW) 32MB-42MB..

And, as pointed by others (HDMI clean out, fixable by firmware?)

Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: tt on March 05, 2012, 03:45:35 AM
I stand corrected  Might be possible to get a a car in as part of a private showing?
canonrumors guy links to someone who did get one.
Less likely if you just ask to a normal rep on the stand though I imagine.
If you have CPS maybe you'll get favored?

Paul Ward   http://t.co/XN6oXHpN (http://t.co/XN6oXHpN)

http://bertstephani.com/2012/03/02/canon-eos-5d-mark-3-first-review/ (http://bertstephani.com/2012/03/02/canon-eos-5d-mark-3-first-review/)
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: simonhowes on March 05, 2012, 01:00:54 PM
I'm back. Had a good 10 minutes with 5D III. Q&A didn't go too well with two of the reps, kept on telling me the 5D had Firewire.


So, the sensor. They had memory cards in which was good. Set the camera to RAW, turned off all noise reduction. ISO 800 clean, ISO 1600 getting very noisy, ISO 3200 is very very noisy. No banding that I could see. No weird halos. Any better than the 5D II, not really. I have been trying to think of a camera to compare it with, thinking the 7D, or the 800D, but no. I have to compare the difference as the old 40D and 50D. Take the 40D being similar to the 5D II, and the 50D to 5D III. Technology wise, they are similar, edge to edge micro lenses etc were introduced int he 50D. The Canon 50D was advertised as being better at low light than the 40D, the 50D had a higher pixel count, and in real world shots the 50D was no better. I feel the same with the 5D III. Bad news, pixel peeping, the D800 was cleaner at ISO 1600 and faster. I wouldn't say it was no more than 1 stop better, half a stop at most, D800 1/3 a stop again.

Build quality, didn't feel as rugged as the D800. Would have had a better answer to this if I did a few drop tests, but I didn't do this.

Video out. Same as the 5D II. No RAW out via HDMI, mirrors what's on the rear screen. No crop mode, and no drop frame!

The AF and AE are not unified to work together like the 1Dx, or the D800 and D4. It cannot do some of the more advanced features. AF is good, tried a 85 f/1.2 and 50 f/1.2, it never missed even when choosing an out of centre focus point. At f8, told the AF does not work at all (reps seemed out of their depth to really answer), and certainly no tracking. AE was like the 7D, hit and miss.

In conclusion, the 5D III is a full framed 7D. There was no answer to the price, especially when compared to the D800. I think the reps knew this, but couldn't answer it publicly, I think the look in their eyes said enough. D800 has the edge in all areas, but IQ on the D800 may be just as good, if not slightly better. It is not a low light camera, the same is said for the D800. I was there with my photographer, met some other pros who shoot Canon. They felt bitter about the 1Dx and its price over the D4, and they won't be rushing out to replace their 1D III's.

I can't say much about the 1Dx as I have already had a day with it, not under an NDA but I have to play nice.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: jlev23 on March 05, 2012, 01:28:50 PM
I'm back. Had a good 10 minutes with 5D III. Q&A didn't go too well with two of the reps, kept on telling me the 5D had Firewire.


So, the sensor. They had memory cards in which was good. Set the camera to RAW, turned off all noise reduction. ISO 800 clean, ISO 1600 getting very noisy, ISO 3200 is very very noisy. No banding that I could see. No weird halos. Any better than the 5D II, not really. I have been trying to think of a camera to compare it with, thinking the 7D, or the 800D, but no. I have to compare the difference as the old 40D and 50D. Take the 40D being similar to the 5D II, and the 50D to 5D III. Technology wise, they are similar, edge to edge micro lenses etc were introduced int he 50D. The Canon 50D was advertised as being better at low light than the 40D, the 50D had a higher pixel count, and in real world shots the 50D was no better. I feel the same with the 5D III. Bad news, pixel peeping, the D800 was cleaner at ISO 1600 and faster. I wouldn't say it was no more than 1 stop better, half a stop at most, D800 1/3 a stop again.

Build quality, didn't feel as rugged as the D800. Would have had a better answer to this if I did a few drop tests, but I didn't do this.

Video out. Same as the 5D II. No RAW out via HDMI, mirrors what's on the rear screen. No crop mode, and no drop frame!

The AF and AE are not unified to work together like the 1Dx, or the D800 and D4. It cannot do some of the more advanced features. AF is good, tried a 85 f/1.2 and 50 f/1.2, it never missed even when choosing an out of centre focus point. At f8, told the AF does not work at all (reps seemed out of their depth to really answer), and certainly no tracking. AE was like the 7D, hit and miss.

In conclusion, the 5D III is a full framed 7D. There was no answer to the price, especially when compared to the D800. I think the reps knew this, but couldn't answer it publicly, I think the look in their eyes said enough. D800 has the edge in all areas, but IQ on the D800 may be just as good, if not slightly better. It is not a low light camera, the same is said for the D800. I was there with my photographer, met some other pros who shoot Canon. They felt bitter about the 1Dx and its price over the D4, and they won't be rushing out to replace their 1D III's.

I can't say much about the 1Dx as I have already had a day with it, not under an NDA but I have to play nice.
so, when you say the hdmi out mirrors whats on the screen, does that mean the lcd screen on the camera stayed on when you had an external monitor attached??? like you could see both at once? that would be a big revaluation if so and what a lot of people are waiting to hear, tell me its true!!!
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: marekjoz on March 05, 2012, 01:37:14 PM

So, the sensor. They had memory cards in which was good. Set the camera to RAW, turned off all noise reduction. ISO 800 clean, ISO 1600 getting very noisy, ISO 3200 is very very noisy. No banding that I could see. No weird halos. Any better than the 5D II, not really.

If I understand you correctly, you are dissapointed with what you saw?
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: DJL329 on March 05, 2012, 01:37:47 PM
Did they mention if it was a pre-production unit?
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: RedEye on March 05, 2012, 01:41:54 PM
Does it really make sense that they would release a sub part product after waiting 4 years?  I guess we'll have to wait and see :)
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: awinphoto on March 05, 2012, 01:52:33 PM
So, the sensor. They had memory cards in which was good. Set the camera to RAW, turned off all noise reduction. ISO 800 clean, ISO 1600 getting very noisy, ISO 3200 is very very noisy. No banding that I could see. No weird halos. Any better than the 5D II, not really.

Isn't that like taking a supermodel in the morning before they put on the makeup and do her hair and yell, See, I told ya she's not that pretty, look at all those blemishes!  =)  I guess we'll see in a matter of weeks when these cameras are released and scientific tests are done. 
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: WarStreet on March 05, 2012, 01:55:52 PM
Thanks for the info.

Interesting that staff like video crop, which is available on 2 rebels, 60D, Nikon's D4 and D800, is not available on the 5D III ? As far as I know, Canon was first to release this, Nikon added this feature on it's new top end cameras, and Canon ??

With all respect, I really hope you are wrong on the image quality. This was a big surprise.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: Axilrod on March 05, 2012, 01:58:54 PM
so, when you say the hdmi out mirrors whats on the screen, does that mean the lcd screen on the camera stayed on when you had an external monitor attached??? like you could see both at once? that would be a big revaluation if so and what a lot of people are waiting to hear, tell me its true!!!

What benefit do you see in being able to look at the screen and a monitor at the same time?  Am I missing something?
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: Axilrod on March 05, 2012, 02:01:24 PM
Does it really make sense that they would release a sub part product after waiting 4 years?  I guess we'll have to wait and see :)

I think it's kind of hard to judge a camera in 10 minutes of use, I can think of plenty of times that I didn't think much of a lens when I only had a few minutes to play with it.  You have to use it in a variety of situations before you can make a fair assessment.  It's a shame that the OP has a bad initial impression, but I remain hopeful.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: unkbob on March 05, 2012, 02:04:56 PM
Interesting that staff like video crop, which is available on 2 rebels, 60D, Nikon's D4 and D800, is not available on the 5D III ? As far as I know, Canon was first to release this, Nikon added this feature on it's new top end cameras, and Canon ??

Could the lack of video crop have something to do with the new pixel binning thing? If you start to crop into the sensor might this introduce stuff like moire, which they have obviously tried so hard to eliminate?
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: RedEye on March 05, 2012, 02:09:38 PM
Does it really make sense that they would release a sub part product after waiting 4 years?  I guess we'll have to wait and see :)

I think it's kind of hard to judge a camera in 10 minutes of use, I can think of plenty of times that I didn't think much of a lens when I only had a few minutes to play with it.  You have to use it in a variety of situations before you can make a fair assessment.  It's a shame that the OP has a bad initial impression, but I remain hopeful.

Right, my point as well.  They could have easily waited a few more months and released a product with whatever technology on the planet they whished to stuff inside - while there is certinally some game theory between Canon, Nikon, and potential entrants such as Sony, the lens 'lock up' issue means that it's not necesary that they immediatly respond to each others sucessive rounds in order to hold the upper hand.  All in all, I just find it doubtful that they would force their own hand unless it added value and demand for their brand, and I think it's pretty clear that the ONLY way for them to do this is if the latest body only camera lives up to the hype, and it likely will. 

For me, I'm really intregued by the idea of software correction.  This could go many ways.... once to correct from the lens, anther to correct from the camera, and then possibly a third way to correct for the printer / monitor the images are being used on.  Honestly, I would preference a software option as I think someone else mentioned on the board here, it allows us to potentially go backward to older model cameras and correct history as well :)
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: pedro on March 05, 2012, 02:10:14 PM
maybe the demo body was a lemon... 8)
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: tt on March 05, 2012, 02:13:31 PM
AF is good, tried a 85 f/1.2 and 50 f/1.2, it never missed even when choosing an out of centre focus point.

Interesting question from this - will the 5DMkIII make the 85mm f/1.2 and the 50mm f/1.2 focus better & faster?

E.g. you could say the 135mm f/2.0 focuses faster than the 85mm f/1.2 (partly to do with the amount of glass, motor etc, but partly the lenses capability to get focus).

If so, it'll in a sense upgrade folk's lenses. It might take a while to focus, but minimising seek time, and being able to actually focus at lower light levels.... pretty useful.

Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: WarStreet on March 05, 2012, 02:14:24 PM
Interesting that staff like video crop, which is available on 2 rebels, 60D, Nikon's D4 and D800, is not available on the 5D III ? As far as I know, Canon was first to release this, Nikon added this feature on it's new top end cameras, and Canon ??

Could the lack of video crop have something to do with the new pixel binning thing? If you start to crop into the sensor might this introduce stuff like moire, which they have obviously tried so hard to eliminate?

I thought that it was going to be easier by using the middle 1/3 pixels in the x and y axis. Really, don't know why it was not included. I guess we might see it with a firmware update ? I have a feeling that Canon won't do such updates :( I won't rush to get this cam, since I will have to wait for my supplier to get it, and would like to know more about this camera.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: Z on March 05, 2012, 02:22:49 PM
... ISO 800 clean, ISO 1600 getting very noisy ...

Thank you for your hands-on experience, Simon.  Noise acceptability is a personal thing, but I find it a little strange that you consider ISO 800 'clean' but 1 stop faster at 1600 it's getting 'very noisy'?  I realise it's hard to convey a subjective opinion RE: noise on an internet forum, but is there no 'slightly noisy' ISO somewhere?  :P

For a bit of perspective, what do you consider to be an acceptable ISO to shoot with your current body/bodies?
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: RustyTheGeek on March 05, 2012, 02:26:32 PM
Simple question:  Did they make the locking mode wheel spin 360 or are we forced to go back and forth like the 60D.  That's such a pain.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: unkbob on March 05, 2012, 02:27:59 PM
There's a 3200 ISO shot of a girl in a wedding dress on the Canon site. Seemed pretty good to me, and significantly better than I could hope for from a 5d2. But yeah, we'll have to see. Jeff Ascough loves the high ISO performance... but maybe he's too much in love with Canon generally :P
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: alipaulphotography on March 05, 2012, 02:32:48 PM
AF is good, tried a 85 f/1.2 and 50 f/1.2, it never missed even when choosing an out of centre focus point.

Interesting question from this - will the 5DMkIII make the 85mm f/1.2 and the 50mm f/1.2 focus better & faster?

E.g. you could say the 135mm f/2.0 focuses faster than the 85mm f/1.2 (partly to do with the amount of glass, motor etc, but partly the lenses capability to get focus).

If so, it'll in a sense upgrade folk's lenses. It might take a while to focus, but minimising seek time, and being able to actually focus at lower light levels.... pretty useful.

I used the 5D3 on Sunday with the 85mm f/1.2 - Close up shots were out of focus A LOT when selecting a focus point over the eye and stopping down to even f/1.6 (yes - this could have been due to calibration errors) - The real disappointment is the lack of precision focus screens for the camera meaning I had no idea that the shots were out of focus until I looked on the LCD.
I have always back button focused and then manually adjusted to ensure exact focus with the precision screens - this is no longer possible with the 5D3 as the focus screen is only sensitive to f/2.5 and is fixed.

Trusting the camera's autofocus entirely when using a wide aperture prime is not ideal and selecting the exact focus point over the eye is time consuming meaning you could miss the shot. Unfortunately the model I was using on the day didn't have precise focus with the 85mm Let's hope it was just a case of calibration. I think I'll stick with the MK2 and the precision screen for now.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: cps_user on March 05, 2012, 03:06:47 PM
sorry you wasted your time with this whole thread. 10 minutes isn't nearly enough to get a decent impression. We'll just have to wait for the first real reviews.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: bornshooter on March 05, 2012, 03:20:24 PM
my guess is we have a nikon fanboy here trying to put us off iso 800 clean then 1600 very very noisy absolute rubbish!
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: simonhowes on March 05, 2012, 03:21:17 PM
10 minutes isn't enough time, and the reps were not very helpful. I'm sorry about that!  ;D If it was a trade show or private viewing my answers would have been better. I've worked at plenty of public exhibitions and an exhibitor for Arcam, Fujitsu Plasmavision, Monitor Audio and Birmingham City University. Worst three days you'll ever do in your life!

Noise, acceptable for what, it depends on the output, that is the answer. ISO 1600, or even 3200 is fine for most things.  800 was silky smooth and wouldn't require any post noise reduction, 1600 there was some luminance noise, 3200 luminance and chroma noise so I would add noise reduction if I was to make a large print. 3200 or even 6400 would be fine for editorial work for news print. It's not a low light monster like the D3/D4 or 1Dx.

There is not much I could have done when indoors. I pointed it at the skylights and checked shadows in the roof space, looked at areas under tables etc. I couldn't do anything like push shadows in post to check noise for banding etc.

Answer your question to what am I used to. My only dSLR is a 50D. I do not like to use it above 400 ISO, and pushing shadows even at ISO 100 introduces banding and cross hatches. That is my acceptable level. I still shoot 135 with my Contax too. My main job is a boom op, and when its down time I work as a photographic assistant in ad and corporate work. Sometimes the 5D II appears, if not I'm used to 900R, D21, Red One or F35. When I'm working in stills the cameras and backs I'm used to working with are D3, D3x, 1D IV, and mix of 645's with Phase One or Leaf backs. Photogs I work with have the DSLRs for low light or low res, and the medium formats for studio or when larger res is required. 5D is a middle road, and so is the D800, so is an odd camera for them to justify. I have shot several times with the 5D II, I do get them hired, and it has the same AF as my 50D. Any new AF system to the 5D is a godsend. Shooting with a 85mm f1.2 and using a out of centre focus point most the time it is out of focus even in good light, and sometimes carries on searching. In low light I wouldn't rely on the 5D II at all. Is the III AF faster, you bet-ya! The 5D is Canon's only answer to a studio camera now that they removed the 1Ds, poor AF was the only thing stopping the 5D from being used by many. I'd hate working as a DIT with a 5D II, checking each photo as they came through and noticing the are all looking soft, you wont get that with the III as it will get focus most, if not all of the time.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on March 05, 2012, 03:27:02 PM
Interesting that staff like video crop, which is available on 2 rebels, 60D, Nikon's D4 and D800, is not available on the 5D III ? As far as I know, Canon was first to release this, Nikon added this feature on it's new top end cameras, and Canon ??

Could the lack of video crop have something to do with the new pixel binning thing? If you start to crop into the sensor might this introduce stuff like moire, which they have obviously tried so hard to eliminate?

I thought that it was going to be easier by using the middle 1/3 pixels in the x and y axis. Really, don't know why it was not included. I guess we might see it with a firmware update ? I have a feeling that Canon won't do such updates :( I won't rush to get this cam, since I will have to wait for my supplier to get it, and would like to know more about this camera.

They could at least read 2x2 blocks like the 300 does and take a 2/3 crop. And even a tighter crop although it would be plagued by issues, would be good for when the subject is far and what can you do but live with moire etc.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: simonhowes on March 05, 2012, 03:29:58 PM
I think someone may have played with calibration. The camera I used was bang on almost every time. Why I asked for the f/1.2, I know they are nightmare on the II.
AF is good, tried a 85 f/1.2 and 50 f/1.2, it never missed even when choosing an out of centre focus point.

Interesting question from this - will the 5DMkIII make the 85mm f/1.2 and the 50mm f/1.2 focus better & faster?

E.g. you could say the 135mm f/2.0 focuses faster than the 85mm f/1.2 (partly to do with the amount of glass, motor etc, but partly the lenses capability to get focus).

If so, it'll in a sense upgrade folk's lenses. It might take a while to focus, but minimising seek time, and being able to actually focus at lower light levels.... pretty useful.

I used the 5D3 on Sunday with the 85mm f/1.2 - Close up shots were out of focus A LOT when selecting a focus point over the eye and stopping down to even f/1.6 (yes - this could have been due to calibration errors) - The real disappointment is the lack of precision focus screens for the camera meaning I had no idea that the shots were out of focus until I looked on the LCD.
I have always back button focused and then manually adjusted to ensure exact focus with the precision screens - this is no longer possible with the 5D3 as the focus screen is only sensitive to f/2.5 and is fixed.

Trusting the camera's autofocus entirely when using a wide aperture prime is not ideal and selecting the exact focus point over the eye is time consuming meaning you could miss the shot. Unfortunately the model I was using on the day didn't have precise focus with the 85mm Let's hope it was just a case of calibration. I think I'll stick with the MK2 and the precision screen for now.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: GL on March 05, 2012, 03:32:25 PM
Sorry mate, do you expect us to believe that a sensor with the same resolution but with new gapless and sensor electronics technology is not cleaner than its predecessor? ISO 1600 very, very noisy?! ISO 1600 is beautiful on the 5D2 - maybe a touch of noise if you're underexposing. And I'll believe the D800 comes anywhere close to the 5D3 at ISO 6400 without resizing when I see it.

Remember, what you see on the LCD is a JPEG preview, even if you're shooting RAW. That's the case with any DSLR.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: well_dunno on March 05, 2012, 03:55:46 PM
Simon, thank you for sharing your impressions! I will also be waiting for the reviews to see how the IQ compares to mark 2.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: 3kramd5 on March 05, 2012, 04:13:42 PM
At f8, told the AF does not work at all (reps seemed out of their depth to really answer)

So they actually had a super tele + extender strapped to the camera?

edit: my mistake, I didn't see the word "told" in your post.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: tt on March 05, 2012, 04:21:13 PM

I used the 5D3 on Sunday with the 85mm f/1.2 - Close up shots were out of focus A LOT when selecting a focus point over the eye and stopping down to even f/1.6 (yes - this could have been due to calibration errors) - The real disappointment is the lack of precision focus screens for the camera meaning I had no idea that the shots were out of focus until I looked on the LCD.
I have always back button focused and then manually adjusted to ensure exact focus with the precision screens - this is no longer possible with the 5D3 as the focus screen is only sensitive to f/2.5 and is fixed.

Trusting the camera's autofocus entirely when using a wide aperture prime is not ideal and selecting the exact focus point over the eye is time consuming meaning you could miss the shot. Unfortunately the model I was using on the day didn't have precise focus with the 85mm Let's hope it was just a case of calibration. I think I'll stick with the MK2 and the precision screen for now.
Agreed its a pain that the focus screen is gone. However they have improved be AFMA to individual serial numbers so on a per lens basis and if it's a zoom to have a MA for wide and close.

If a 5DMkIII user can trust the AF point once calibrated its less of an issue.  Won't know for a bit.
Luckily the issues of the MkII are well known so they'll be well tested in decent reviews to check out improvements.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: jlev23 on March 05, 2012, 04:22:16 PM
so, when you say the hdmi out mirrors whats on the screen, does that mean the lcd screen on the camera stayed on when you had an external monitor attached??? like you could see both at once? that would be a big revaluation if so and what a lot of people are waiting to hear, tell me its true!!!

What benefit do you see in being able to look at the screen and a monitor at the same time?  Am I missing something?
so you can have someone else viewing what you are shooting, like a client or director, without having to also have an bulky onboard monitor with loop through sdi daisy chained to the client monitor.
its not for stills, for shooting video.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: simonhowes on March 05, 2012, 05:09:28 PM
Also do not forget anyone working in continuity. They need to see the whole frame at all times. It's also good if you need to record to an external recorder. RAW would be perfect, but also to a backup. 5D II is not good enough for cinematic screen, and the bit-rate is too low for broadcast to be acceptable. I can't wait to see how the III fairs. The RAW output that Nikon are pushing might be too much hype.



so, when you say the hdmi out mirrors whats on the screen, does that mean the lcd screen on the camera stayed on when you had an external monitor attached??? like you could see both at once? that would be a big revaluation if so and what a lot of people are waiting to hear, tell me its true!!!

What benefit do you see in being able to look at the screen and a monitor at the same time?  Am I missing something?
so you can have someone else viewing what you are shooting, like a client or director, without having to also have an bulky onboard monitor with loop through sdi daisy chained to the client monitor.
its not for stills, for shooting video.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: wtf1234567 on March 05, 2012, 07:19:36 PM
Yes, is it worth getting a 1dx instead of 5d3 for wedding photog and events work?
seems 5d3 is perfect already for my work....just wondering why need to pay more to get 1dx instead...
thanks
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: Maxis Gamez on March 05, 2012, 11:17:21 PM
Can you please find out if the 1D X will focus at f/8 like the 1D MK4? Meaning a f/4 lens with a 2X attached.

There has been a lot of talk about Canon not supporting f/8 any longer which is a huge problem for wildlife photographers.

Thank you.

www.gvisions.org (http://www.gvisions.org) - Bird Photography
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: Mark D5 TEAM II on March 05, 2012, 11:47:51 PM
Quote
In conclusion, the 5D III is a full framed 7D. There was no answer to the price, especially when compared to the D800. I think the reps knew this, but couldn't answer it publicly, I think the look in their eyes said enough. D800 has the edge in all areas, but IQ on the D800 may be just as good, if not slightly better. It is not a low light camera, the same is said for the D800.

Thanks for the laugh.  ;D Even by just reading the specs one can tell you that a lot of your, uh, "first-hand" impressions are rather inaccurate. Even by just reading the previews from some unbiased websites would belie your claims.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: te4o on March 06, 2012, 04:11:18 AM
Simon, you don't do yourself any service if you mix up your impressions from 10 minutes "play" and LCD-viewing with any firm conclusions about a rather sophisticated product of a company with very long camera making tradition. This seems a whim of youth to be heard which I can understand and accept but let me caution your statements and wait until we all have more sound basis for discussion. You may be right but the chances are not very high.
No one has appropriate software to view the files of the 5D3 and D800 in full specs. Everything we see now is just peeping into our parents' bedroom...

The only thing I'd like to know and which can be seen without DPP and RAW converters and CF cards is the quality of the focusing screen. But I guess everyone has to look there for himself and I'm not asking you for your impression after 10 minutes of play.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: sphax on March 06, 2012, 05:00:32 AM
I think you're all a bit mean with Simon here ... he proposed to share his experience with us, to ask questions we were having, and to give us his experience back here, in this forum.

Just do whatever you want with what he says ! I don't believe him for everything he says, but I thank him for trying to give us some more information. I think that no one here is so idiot that he's gonna read this and change his mind, so no harm taken men ! Just read this, disagree, and get over it.

As for me I'll say thanks Simon. But I'll wait for further deeper tests to make up my mind.
Title: Re: I have my hands on a 5D III and 1Dx tomorrow. Questions?
Post by: sphax on March 06, 2012, 06:05:38 AM
Indeed if you just read all of the links of the reviews of the 5DmkIII you find one that displays tests at every ISO level !! And you find this picture @ISO12800 in full resolution (5,6Mb heavy) that clearly proves that those ISOs are really really good on this camera :

http://masters.galleries.dpreview.com.s3.amazonaws.com/1779795.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=14Y3MT0G2J4Y72K3ZXR2&Expires=1331032376&Signature=7TZD0GaCD2Tv3NrY12UccliGdSk%3d (http://masters.galleries.dpreview.com.s3.amazonaws.com/1779795.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=14Y3MT0G2J4Y72K3ZXR2&Expires=1331032376&Signature=7TZD0GaCD2Tv3NrY12UccliGdSk%3d)