canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on May 09, 2012, 11:50:14 AM

Title: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Canon Rumors on May 09, 2012, 11:50:14 AM
Scheduled
There is apparently going to be new 5D Mark III firmware before the end of May. It will address a few bugs, as well as adding some “features”. No mention of what the features might be. It was mentioned there is a possibility of a bug fix firmware update before the “feature” update, a two part strategy if you will.

There have been no mentions of additional features for video.

cr

Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: elusive1 on May 09, 2012, 12:01:11 PM
No video features? That's what it needs the most.

The 5D3 is a pretty capable still camera, but for video when compared to the D800, it lacks several major / almost crucial features - clean HDMI, Crop Modes and true HD. It strange... Canon used to be the video DSLR company, now D800 seems to be taking over in that department, amongst other things.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: JR on May 09, 2012, 12:03:36 PM
A simple focus peak feature for video in live view would be a killer and a quick win for Canon...
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: transpo1 on May 09, 2012, 12:05:23 PM
I hope they unlock new video features. I'm sticking with my 5Dii for video right now, but if they added clean HDMI 8-bit 4:2:2 out, zebras, and focus peaking, I'd upgrade for that.

I'd upgrade ESPECIALLY if they unlock more video resolution from the sensor and processor.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: PhilDrinkwater on May 09, 2012, 12:21:02 PM
What it really needs is the viewfinder issues with focussing fixing IMO  >:(
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Ricku on May 09, 2012, 12:26:04 PM
It seems that some people in this thread are looking at the wrong camera. This camera is designed mainly for still photography, NOT video.

Video is just a small "side bonus" on the 5D3, so don't be so surprised if Canon doesn't give you the features you want. They are saving all the good stuff for the 1DC-line. That is where you should be looking.

For video when compared to the D800, it lacks several major / almost crucial features.
Same as with the still photography features.  ;)

Alas, it is a shame that most of the missing features can't be added by firmware. Like more resolution, more DR, and spot metering linked to selected AF point. (Just to name a few).
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Daniel Flather on May 09, 2012, 01:00:02 PM
Will it have a feature to search the net and nuke redundant posts in threads that cover the same sh*t over and over?
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: joonrhee on May 09, 2012, 01:11:56 PM
I would like to know if this firmware update would fix the IS noise issue between 200/2.  This annoying issue alone is holding me back from trying out the 5D3 before the 1DX release.  Any idea?
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: moreorless on May 09, 2012, 01:13:08 PM
It seems that some people in this thread are looking at the wrong camera. This camera is designed mainly for still photography, NOT video.

Video is just a small "side bonus" on the 5D3, so don't be so surprised if Canon doesn't give you the features you want. They are saving all the good stuff for the 1DC-line. That is where you should be looking.

I'm guessing video is a large part of the reason why they stuck with 22 MP, its ISO performance seems to be vastly superior to the D800 from the tests I'v seen.

Perhaps not ideal for feature film/TV work but I'd guess exactly what many event photgraphers want from video performance.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: John Thomas on May 09, 2012, 01:31:19 PM
It seems that some people in this thread are looking at the wrong camera. This camera is designed mainly for still photography, NOT video.

Video is just a small "side bonus" on the 5D3, so don't be so surprised if Canon doesn't give you the features you want. They are saving all the good stuff for the 1DC-line. That is where you should be looking.

For video when compared to the D800, it lacks several major / almost crucial features.
Same as with the still photography features.  ;)

Alas, it is a shame that most of the missing features can't be added by firmware. Like more resolution, more DR, and spot metering linked to selected AF point. (Just to name a few).

Spot metering linked to selected AF point can be done, I think. Evaluative metering is linked to selected AF point.

Also, regarding of DR I remember now Nikon D80. In its initial release there were an awful noise at high ISOs. But later they corrected that through firmware.

Ok, I don't think that they can do wonders, but I know that they can tweak the DiGIC registers in order to obtain better Dynamic Range:

Quote
The surprise comes from a little ISO test, which shows that ML can
improve dynamic range and highlight rolloff in movie mode (see
attached files). How much? Let's find the answer together by running a
little experiment.

The above quote is snipped from

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/ml-devel/PK1SX33ewRg

Before putting my wishlist, I think that's quite important to understand that we must give as much feedback as possible (in quantity and quality) in order to make from 5DMk3 the best camera around. And I know that this is possible because the best camera is the one which will allow us to take the best shots not the one which looks best on paper. 

Look at PC / Win vs Mac. Wins the one which helps you better to get your job done.
I can easily prove that "Linux is better" (no flamewars please - thank you). But how many of us have Linux on our computer?

We need to make from 5DMk3 the tool which fits our needs. And for this we must communicate our needs firstly not mainly our solutions. Think outside the box. Sometimes helps.

Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Viggo on May 09, 2012, 02:18:18 PM
Seems the video is still pretty okay if you use it right.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=2375 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=2375)
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: AvTvM on May 09, 2012, 02:19:35 PM
1. improved Auto-ISO function! Primarily adding exposure correction for "M" mode on Auto-ISO.  That would be really easy to fix in firmware and make Auto-ISO a lot  more useful.

2. red illuminated AF-point/s also in AI-Servo mode. I guess that one will definitely be on the list.

3. I don't ever use video at all. I would therefore like to get a 5D III with all video + related features completely disabled in firmware, with the sole exception of LiveView. Sold at a substantially discounted price - less than a Nikon D800. Lets say € 2.500 ... and I'll immediately buy one! :-) 
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: HurtinMinorKey on May 09, 2012, 02:31:23 PM
Video is just a small "side bonus" on the 5D3, so don't be so surprised if Canon doesn't give you the features you want. They are saving all the good stuff for the 1DC-line. That is where you should be looking.

Or waiting for the 5D-C, which has to be coming soon.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: bkorcel on May 09, 2012, 02:35:12 PM
I would like to see some optimizations that would extend battey life.  BG-E11 will help.  But the battery life could use some improvement.  There are a lot of bells and whistles to power on this model...and the addition of lighted focus points in servo mode wont help.  Hope that is configurable when it's fixed.

Id also like to see the annoying problem of having the camera switch the default card when a card is removed (EVEN WHEN THE POWER IS OFF!).  Very annoying to have to reset that.  The default card should remain the default card unless it's powered on with one of the cards missing.

Makes me think maybe we have a battery drain issue when powered off if the camera can detect that cards have been removed and re-inserted.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Viggo on May 09, 2012, 03:28:10 PM
I would like to see some optimizations that would extend battey life.  BG-E11 will help.  But the battery life could use some improvement.  There are a lot of bells and whistles to power on this model...and the addition of lighted focus points in servo mode wont help.  Hope that is configurable when it's fixed.

Id also like to see the annoying problem of having the camera switch the default card when a card is removed (EVEN WHEN THE POWER IS OFF!).  Very annoying to have to reset that.  The default card should remain the default card unless it's powered on with one of the cards missing.

Makes me think maybe we have a battery drain issue when powered off if the camera can detect that cards have been removed and re-inserted.

How many images do you get pr charge? I get 900 on a battery that is missing one of the three green squares, showing battery capacity. That's in fact double what I had with the same battery on the 5d2.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Radiating on May 09, 2012, 03:39:44 PM
I really hope they:

1. change the way AF point illumination works, allows you to see the AF point.

2. change the way servo AF point illumination works so you can see the AF point you're using.

3. Allow you to set the upper right most button on the back to zoom like before so you can use it with one hand.

4. Allow you to disable the limits of auto ISO

5. Allow you to use flash with AEB at least in manual mode.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: bkorcel on May 09, 2012, 03:53:52 PM
I would like to see some optimizations that would extend battey life.  BG-E11 will help.  But the battery life could use some improvement.  There are a lot of bells and whistles to power on this model...and the addition of lighted focus points in servo mode wont help.  Hope that is configurable when it's fixed.

Id also like to see the annoying problem of having the camera switch the default card when a card is removed (EVEN WHEN THE POWER IS OFF!).  Very annoying to have to reset that.  The default card should remain the default card unless it's powered on with one of the cards missing.

Makes me think maybe we have a battery drain issue when powered off if the camera can detect that cards have been removed and re-inserted.

How many images do you get pr charge? I get 900 on a battery that is missing one of the three green squares, showing battery capacity. That's in fact double what I had with the same battery on the 5d2.

I am seeing about 500 with 32% left on battery with 3 green squares.  I switch between two batteries between chargings and both get about the same life.  It is possibly also a factor of which lens is used.  I have been primarily using a 300 2.8 IS.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Chris Geiger on May 09, 2012, 04:44:15 PM
I am getting over 1,200 shots per battery (wedding photography). I am very happy with the battery performance. I put one fresh battery in each body and I can shoot the whole day. I keep a spare in the car but have not needed it.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: kbmelb on May 09, 2012, 04:47:31 PM
Id also like to see the annoying problem of having the camera switch the default card when a card is removed (EVEN WHEN THE POWER IS OFF!).  Very annoying to have to reset that.  The default card should remain the default card unless it's powered on with one of the cards missing.

This kind of drive batty too.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: jalbfb on May 09, 2012, 05:18:20 PM
^^^YES!!!!  That drives me crazy and I just thought I had set something up wrong.  I does not happen in "standard" setting but seems to happen if I set the camera to switch to the secondary card (in my case the SD card) if the CF card fill up.  As a result I just keep the setting to standard and set the primary card to CF.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: cayenne on May 09, 2012, 05:31:38 PM
But how many of us have Linux on our computer?


Err....I do on most of my computers at home....and the servers I work with at work...

:)

I'm actually anxious to play with the newly released version of the Open Source version of Photoshop, the GIMP:  http://www.gimp.org/ (http://www.gimp.org/) on my linux, windows and mac boxes....

Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Kernuak on May 09, 2012, 06:04:57 PM
Will it have a feature to search the net and nuke redundant posts in threads that cover the same sh*t over and over?
I wouldn't hold your breath :P.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: wshinji on May 09, 2012, 07:41:06 PM
I hope they found the bug where the camera frekin wont turn back on and needs the battery removed and inserted again to kick back into action.

Easy fix right....
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: bkorcel on May 09, 2012, 08:40:19 PM
I am getting over 1,200 shots per battery (wedding photography). I am very happy with the battery performance. I put one fresh battery in each body and I can shoot the whole day. I keep a spare in the car but have not needed it.

Wow!  I shoot wildlife so I use a lot of AF Servo and mode 2 IS.  Might be the difference.  I cant imagine using either of those for weddings.  Maybe IS in some low light instances. 
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: npc2396 on May 09, 2012, 09:17:15 PM
I would like to see some optimizations that would extend battey life.  BG-E11 will help.  But the battery life could use some improvement.  There are a lot of bells and whistles to power on this model...and the addition of lighted focus points in servo mode wont help.  Hope that is configurable when it's fixed.

Id also like to see the annoying problem of having the camera switch the default card when a card is removed (EVEN WHEN THE POWER IS OFF!).  Very annoying to have to reset that.  The default card should remain the default card unless it's powered on with one of the cards missing.

Makes me think maybe we have a battery drain issue when powered off if the camera can detect that cards have been removed and re-inserted.

The default card switching is driving me nuts, i would love to see that fixed.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: revup67 on May 09, 2012, 11:17:41 PM
Man, all these great ideas everyone is sharing here, but is anyone submitting their gripes/suggestions to Canon?  This rant and rave reminds of me of when people complain or talk about someone behind their backs.  The communication never gets to the culprit and so they keep doing what they are doing and the complainer keeps complaining.  An endless loop.

I do hope some of you or most of you send these excellent suggestions directly to Canon.  That way they are aware of the suggestions, gripes etc and deploy these via firmware, updates, upgrades etc. if and whenever possible.

Ex.  I wrote to Canon support the other day about DPP not offering a very simple command called RENAME.  RENAME should appear in a right click (i.e. context menu) on a photo but does not.  Each to time I rename an image I have to shell out to Windows Explorer and perform this task.  (Yes I am aware of the batch process but that is multi stepped. I also know you can rename a folder but why no single photo/file?)   I finally got fed up and instead of griping here I wrote to support and received the following reply from Rodney in Canon Support:  "We appreciate your continued correspondence regarding the EOS 5D Mark III and Canon software.  A rename option in Digital Photo Professional is a very good suggestion.  We thank you for this feedback and I will make sure to pass this along towards the appropriate parties for consideration. Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance with your inquiry about the EOS 5D Mark III and Canon software.  Thank you for choosing Canon."  So let's take all of these great suggestions and get them in the hands of the people that can do something.  To get you started here's the email for Canon support:  eosdigitalsupport@cits.canon.com.
 Lastly (and I hope you do send your valuable comments to them) please share with us the reply you have received.

PS I am going to start this as a New Topic as well
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: bkorcel on May 10, 2012, 02:14:20 PM
Man, all these great ideas everyone is sharing here, but is anyone submitting their gripes/suggestions to Canon? 

Constantly but always get back the same response...

"Thank you for writing to us about your EOS 5D Mark III.  We value you as a Canon customer and appreciate the opportunity to assist you.
We are grateful for the suggestions you have made regarding the EOS 5D Mark III.  We have made note of these and they will be passed along to the appropriate party.  We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused.  Thank you for taking the time to write.
Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance with your EOS 5D Mark III. Thank you for choosing Canon.
Sincerely,
Michael
Technical Support Representative"
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Fandongo on May 10, 2012, 05:01:55 PM
I hope they unlock new video features. I'm sticking with my 5Dii for video right now, but if they added clean HDMI 8-bit 4:2:2 out, zebras, and focus peaking, I'd upgrade for that.

I'd upgrade ESPECIALLY if they unlock more video resolution from the sensor and processor.

Clean out: YES!
Zebras: Meh, I prefer spot metering...however, a small floating spot meter that pops up in the center of over exposed (red) and under exposed (blue) area would be incredible.
It would use less juice than constant scribbles all over the screen.
Peaking:  Maybe, it's definitely useful on a 3" screen... ML of course, has all these options.

ML: Firmware
Canon: Flimsyware/limpware/gimpware.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: tron on May 11, 2012, 10:02:17 AM
1. improved Auto-ISO function! Primarily adding exposure correction for "M" mode on Auto-ISO.  That would be really easy to fix in firmware and make Auto-ISO a lot  more useful.

2. red illuminated AF-point/s also in AI-Servo mode. I guess that one will definitely be on the list.

3. I don't ever use video at all. I would therefore like to get a 5D III with all video + related features completely disabled in firmware, with the sole exception of LiveView. Sold at a substantially discounted price - less than a Nikon D800. Lets say € 2.500 ... and I'll immediately buy one! :-)
+1  ;D
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: mart9802 on June 06, 2012, 02:49:41 PM
Soooo.... it's now June - any more news Mr. OP? Did this appear and I missed it?
Thanks,
M
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: jmp2000 on June 06, 2012, 03:30:29 PM
Just got my camera back from Canon a hour ago, to get the metering issue fixed and they updated me to firmware version 1.1.2
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: DanielG. on June 06, 2012, 04:24:57 PM
... they updated me to firmware version 1.1.2

Sorry to say this, but 1.1.2 isn't new.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: jmp2000 on June 06, 2012, 04:46:47 PM
... they updated me to firmware version 1.1.2

Sorry to say this, but 1.1.2 isn't new.

Bummer, I guess I'll have to update when the new one is out.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: edawg on June 07, 2012, 07:34:04 AM
What was the turnaround time for the fix?
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: EvilTed on June 07, 2012, 10:15:40 AM
Mine is at the service center now and they say in 7 business days + they will add any new firmware...

ET
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: jmp2000 on June 07, 2012, 10:44:31 AM
What was the turnaround time for the fix?

Dropped off Friday at 1pm and it was ready Tuesday at 4:30pm. No bad
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: YellowJersey on June 08, 2012, 04:18:23 AM
I saw a few pages back that allegedly Magic Lantern can squeeze better dynamic range out of the sensor. If that's true, I wonder if Canon is working on something in that regard.

Soooo.... it's now June - any more news Mr. OP? Did this appear and I missed it?
Thanks,
M

Hey now, let's not shoot the messenger
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: llcanon on June 08, 2012, 07:36:43 AM
Maybe it is juat a wish, but is it possible to add the new continuous Movie Servo AF offerred by T4i to 5D3 via a firmware update?
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: tvde on June 08, 2012, 08:11:06 AM
Maybe it is juat a wish, but is it possible to add the new continuous Movie Servo AF offerred by T4i to 5D3 via a firmware update?

I was thinking exactly the same. Let's hope so... Plus some extra dynamic range and everything is perfect :)
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: itsnotmeyouknow on June 08, 2012, 08:35:33 AM
Hope the next update deals with the low ISO banding.  Masses of it on dark areas of shots with ISO 250 without any pushing in post. 
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Bob Howland on June 08, 2012, 08:50:08 AM
1. improved Auto-ISO function! Primarily adding exposure correction for "M" mode on Auto-ISO.  That would be really easy to fix in firmware and make Auto-ISO a lot  more useful.

+1. I use "M" mode with Auto-ISO about 80% of the time. I'd use it even more if EC and AEB were usable. I also want a safety shift when there is too much light in M/Auto-ISO and the camera overexposes.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Phenix205 on June 08, 2012, 11:22:20 PM
Any update on when the firmware will be released?
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on June 09, 2012, 12:37:17 AM
I just hope it means a 5D3 new firmware that has been rumored is coming too.

They so incredibly badly need to:
1. remove the silly 1/250th limit in AutoISO Av and bump it to a good 1/2000th or allow for EC in AutoISO M or both
2. they have GOT to add focus peaking to the video mode!!!!
3. they really should add zebra stripes for blown exposure to the video mode
4. they really need to add a 1920x1080 2x2 sampled 1.6x cropped video mode and it wouldn't hurt to also add an even more extreme mode (although this latter one would need to have some line skipping compromises of course, the 1.6x would not) although the non-line skipped 1.6x needs to be there regardless
5. let the user have the option for a really high bitrate for video for the IPB mode
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on June 09, 2012, 12:38:26 AM
It seems that some people in this thread are looking at the wrong camera. This camera is designed mainly for still photography, NOT video.

Video is just a small "side bonus" on the 5D3, so don't be so surprised if Canon doesn't give you the features you want. They are saving all the good stuff for the 1DC-line. That is where you should be looking.

a $15,000 brick?


Quote

Alas, it is a shame that most of the missing features can't be added by firmware. Like more resolution, more DR, and spot metering linked to selected AF point. (Just to name a few).

And yet those video features mostly COULD all be added by firmware so....
Title: 5D3 New Firmware
Post by: Phenix205 on June 15, 2012, 03:14:27 PM
Any update on this? Any idea what kind of features would be included?
Title: Re: 5D3 New Firmware
Post by: Axilrod on June 15, 2012, 06:15:23 PM
It hasn't been that long since 1.1.2 was released, and I haven't heard anything about another update.  But if there is one you'll hear about it here first I'm sure. 
Title: Re: 5D3 New Firmware
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on June 15, 2012, 08:54:57 PM
Firmware releases usually fix problems, and seldom add features.  The 5D MK II did have new features added, but that was due to pressure from the pro video industry who wanted a few million dollars worth of cameras, and it ended up selling a lot more than that.
 
I doubt that the 5D MK III will add new features.
Title: Re: 5D3 New Firmware
Post by: ideaworx on June 15, 2012, 09:17:38 PM
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=6409.30 (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=6409.30)

This is what I think he was referring to, is this supposed to still happen?
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: deme3 on June 16, 2012, 11:24:34 AM
"Canon Japan has announced that an update to their Digital Photo Pro (DPP) software is planned for mid-April. This update will resolve the soft/blurred Canon EOS 5D Mark III DSLR RAW image problem"

Can somebody confirm whether the new firmware update has resolved the softness issue induced due to the anti aliasing filter. 
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Marsu42 on June 16, 2012, 02:15:40 PM
Soooo.... it's now June - any more news Mr. OP? Did this appear and I missed it?

Well, that's [CR2] for you :-)

2. they have GOT to add focus peaking to the video mode!!!!
3. they really should add zebra stripes for blown exposure to the video mode

Magic lantern will support both, I don't think Canon will add it by default, they never did.

1. remove the silly 1/250th limit in AutoISO Av and bump it to a good 1/2000th or allow for EC in AutoISO M or both
5. let the user have the option for a really high bitrate for video for the IPB mode

Even facing the danger of being accused of conspiracy theories:  Canon didn't limit the video mode or the min. Av mode  because they didn't think about it - the 1/250s limitation is so silly this isn't a coincidence, but made to protect more expensive products. They'll only change that if the 5d3 sales stall or after some years the 5d3 needs a sales boost like the 7d now.

Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on June 16, 2012, 03:51:18 PM
I would like to see some optimizations that would extend battey life.  BG-E11 will help.  But the battery life could use some improvement.  There are a lot of bells and whistles to power on this model...and the addition of lighted focus points in servo mode wont help.  Hope that is configurable when it's fixed.

Id also like to see the annoying problem of having the camera switch the default card when a card is removed (EVEN WHEN THE POWER IS OFF!).  Very annoying to have to reset that.  The default card should remain the default card unless it's powered on with one of the cards missing.

Makes me think maybe we have a battery drain issue when powered off if the camera can detect that cards have been removed and re-inserted.

The default card switching is driving me nuts, i would love to see that fixed.

Its not broken, all Canon Pro cameras work that way.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: bdunbar79 on June 16, 2012, 03:58:51 PM
I too am irritated by the 1/250th limit in Auto ISO in Av mode.  If I'm in Av mode, I should be able to automagically have a shutter speed higher than that and have the ISO go to to whatever it needs.  I guess that is a fairly complex thing for a camera to do, but it would still be nice.  So, you switch to manual mode.  But with auto ISO there, no EC.  So if you shoot the 5D Mk III, you really have to do most or all of your exposure compensation via ISO #.  Well not really, but you know what I mean.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Marsu42 on June 16, 2012, 05:34:30 PM
I guess that is a fairly complex thing for a camera to do, but it would still be nice.  So, you switch to manual mode.  But with auto ISO there, no EC.  So if you shoot the 5D Mk III, you really have to do most or all of your exposure compensation via ISO #.  Well not really, but you know what I mean.

While I don't have access to Canon's firmware sourcecode, I'd say this is less "complex" but more like "trivial". But as I wrote, I suspect this and disabling ec on m is intentional, I have no other explanation for it. And this is the reason I almost never use m on my 60d, too - I'm used to quick ec changes with auto iso from the av mode.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: bkorcel on June 16, 2012, 08:19:34 PM
Doesnt mean it's not broken, just never been fixed.  Power off should be power off.

I would like to see some optimizations that would extend battey life.  BG-E11 will help.  But the battery life could use some improvement.  There are a lot of bells and whistles to power on this model...and the addition of lighted focus points in servo mode wont help.  Hope that is configurable when it's fixed.

Id also like to see the annoying problem of having the camera switch the default card when a card is removed (EVEN WHEN THE POWER IS OFF!).  Very annoying to have to reset that.  The default card should remain the default card unless it's powered on with one of the cards missing.

Makes me think maybe we have a battery drain issue when powered off if the camera can detect that cards have been removed and re-inserted.

The default card switching is driving me nuts, i would love to see that fixed.

Its not broken, all Canon Pro cameras work that way.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Pixel on June 16, 2012, 10:04:00 PM
My 1D Mark III and my Mark IV maintain the same card when you pull one out. The 5D3 definitely doesn't work the same way. No matter what, the 5D3 always goes back to Card 1.
It needs fixed.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on June 17, 2012, 03:46:51 AM
I too am irritated by the 1/250th limit in Auto ISO in Av mode.  If I'm in Av mode, I should be able to automagically have a shutter speed higher than that and have the ISO go to to whatever it needs.

Removing the 1/250th limit is not complex at all! It may be as simple a re-typing a SINGLE NUMBER in the code and, at worst, it would mean adding a dozen or so numbers to some list. We are talking like 1 minute of coding time at most (and that is an extreme worst case scenario  ;D). Even the logic routines for the whole thing are awfully simple. It was probably one of the simplest things in the entire camera to code  :D. In fact if someone gave you a one hour lesson on programming I bet you could write the pseduo code for it in no time.
Title: Re: 5D3 New Firmware
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on June 17, 2012, 03:51:28 AM
Firmware releases usually fix problems, and seldom add features.  The 5D MK II did have new features added, but that was due to pressure from the pro video industry who wanted a few million dollars worth of cameras, and it ended up selling a lot more than that.
 
I doubt that the 5D MK III will add new features.

The video blogs had a pretty meh reaction to to it so I'm still hoping, but I think Canon is too stuck in it's new old ways to get it, sad to say, so I'm probably kidding myself. It's surely the bean counters and MBA types making a mess of it all and not the engineers.

I mean they did finally get it enough to add 1 series AF to 5 series and boost to a full 6fps and all so they improved and they did get much of it right, but was it because they got it or because they were still just laying back and only reacting when they had to? Had they not, if you think about it, the D800 woulda made the 5D3 look silly. The fact they still muddled up some video features and autoiso (and by muddled i basically mean crippled for ridiculous reasons) you do wonder. And the fact they thought they could just let the low iso sensor performance sit there in the same spot for a full half decade now makes you wonder too. They did get the basic body specs pretty sweet finally at least, for whatever reason.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: AvTvM on June 17, 2012, 05:35:55 AM
I too am irritated by the 1/250th limit in Auto ISO in Av mode.  If I'm in Av mode, I should be able to automagically have a shutter speed higher than that and have the ISO go to to whatever it needs.

Removing the 1/250th limit is not complex at all! It may be as simple a re-typing a SINGLE NUMBER in the code and, at worst, it would mean adding a dozen or so numbers to some list. We are talking like 1 minute of coding time at most (and that is an extreme worst case scenario  ;D). Even the logic routines for the whole thing are awfully simple. It was probably one of the simplest things in the entire camera to code  :D. In fact if someone gave you a one hour lesson on programming I bet you could write the pseduo code for it in no time.

EXACTLY!
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Bob Howland on June 17, 2012, 08:26:53 AM
Are any of you complaining to the right people, namely Canon, or are you just making your cases here? I've sent e-mails to Canon USA about the 1/250 maximum and EC omission with "M" and Auto-ISO. Just a suggestion.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: RichATL on June 17, 2012, 09:08:38 AM
Well, just a logical observation here...
If in Manual mode... why not just adjust your exposure yourself instead of setting the camera to do it?  (probably cannons logic)

HOWEVER... with Auto ISO engaged, I agree that it should be available.
Title: Re: 5D3 New Firmware
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on June 17, 2012, 10:02:53 AM
The video blogs had a pretty meh reaction to to it so I'm still hoping, but I think Canon is too stuck in it's new old ways to get it, sad to say, so I'm probably kidding myself. It's surely the bean counters and MBA types making a mess of it all and not the engineers.

I mean they did finally get it enough to add 1 series AF to 5 series and boost to a full 6fps and all so they improved and they did get much of it right, but was it because they got it or because they were still just laying back and only reacting when they had to? Had they not, if you think about it, the D800 woulda made the 5D3 look silly. The fact they still muddled up some video features and autoiso (and by muddled i basically mean crippled for ridiculous reasons) you do wonder. And the fact they thought they could just let the low iso sensor performance sit there in the same spot for a full half decade now makes you wonder too. They did get the basic body specs pretty sweet finally at least, for whatever reason.

The message got thru to Canon, and they opened a dedicated support facility in Hollywood, and are in the process of trotting out cinema bodies and lenses.
 
It was probably unrealistic to expect Canon to turn a 5D MK III into a 4K cinema body with XLR jacks, etc. but some actually thought it would happen and were disappointed.  Its a still body that does video and they are obviously going to differentiate it from higher end video bodies. 
 
Thats a pretty standard marketing scheme, but its also a practical one.  Some want a stills body with video, and some want a all out video body that can also do stills.
 
 
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Marsu42 on June 17, 2012, 10:34:21 AM
If in Manual mode... why not just adjust your exposure yourself instead of setting the camera to do it?  (probably cannons logic)

For me, it would be extremely convenient too be able too shoot in m with a fixed depth of field and setting the shutter to the min. I think I don't get motion blur. Using auto iso, the camera then has to choose the lowest iso to minimize noise.

The problem is, that with no ec available on m, you have to rely 100% on camera metering which is a joke - I know best if the camera will under- or overexpose the scene I want to shoot, spot metering and so on isn't much of a help either. The result: I never shoot m with auto iso, but mostly use Av.

Are any of you complaining to the right people, namely Canon, or are you just making your cases here? I've sent e-mails to Canon USA about the 1/250 maximum and EC omission with "M" and Auto-ISO. Just a suggestion.

At least their marketing dept. might have a good laught :-p ... you could as well write "please lower the 5d3 price $1000", my 2 cents.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: RichATL on June 17, 2012, 02:10:27 PM


For me, it would be extremely convenient too be able too shoot in m with a fixed depth of field and setting the shutter to the min. I think I don't get motion blur. Using auto iso, the camera then has to choose the lowest iso to minimize noise.

The problem is, that with no ec available on m, you have to rely 100% on camera metering which is a joke - I know best if the camera will under- or overexpose the scene I want to shoot, spot metering and so on isn't much of a help either. The result: I never shoot m with auto iso, but mostly use Av.



Well, by your logic.. you knowing how best to expose the scene... why not open up the ISO, Shutter, or Aperture?   Thats all EC is anyway.

Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Marsu42 on June 17, 2012, 05:55:32 PM
Well, by your logic.. you knowing how best to expose the scene... why not open up the ISO, Shutter, or Aperture?   Thats all EC is anyway.

To be exact: I don't know "best" how to expose or I'd shoot full manual only if I have the time, but I have some experience how wrong the camera metering will be - that's why I'd like to have ec in m.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: wickidwombat on June 17, 2012, 06:30:27 PM
If in Manual mode... why not just adjust your exposure yourself instead of setting the camera to do it?  (probably cannons logic)

For me, it would be extremely convenient too be able too shoot in m with a fixed depth of field and setting the shutter to the min. I think I don't get motion blur. Using auto iso, the camera then has to choose the lowest iso to minimize noise.

The problem is, that with no ec available on m, you have to rely 100% on camera metering which is a joke - I know best if the camera will under- or overexpose the scene I want to shoot, spot metering and so on isn't much of a help either. The result: I never shoot m with auto iso, but mostly use Av.

Exactly I would love to see this implemented however
personally I find it easier to hit the iso button than the EC button so in manual its actually easier to change iso on the fly than to do EC

what I would really love to be able to do is remap the rear wheel to be iso and it only changes aperture while holding down the iso button that way you have very quick acces to both shutter speed and iso without having to press another button.

fuji nearly got the auto iso right with the x10 they even have the wonderfull EC dial on top however in manual that dial doesnt do anything :( it would be great if they enabled that dial on future firmware to be able to EC the iso in manual mode.

I dont know of any manufacturer that has auto iso that is really optimal yet

you would think they would talk to some photographers when actually designing stuff wouldnt you?
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Marsu42 on June 17, 2012, 06:54:05 PM
I dont know of any manufacturer that has auto iso that is really optimal yet

... which is very amazing, since iso is only the 3rd thing to calculate with apart from shutter speed & aperture. Flash may complicate things, but really, it can't be that hard to get these basic features right? Some crippling might be due to marketing concerns, but other things like ec on m really sounds like photog's input doesn't reach the devs.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: briansquibb on June 17, 2012, 07:00:29 PM
I dont know of any manufacturer that has auto iso that is really optimal yet

... which is very amazing, since iso is only the 3rd thing to calculate with apart from shutter speed & aperture. Flash may complicate things, but really, it can't be that hard to get these basic features right? Some crippling might be due to marketing concerns, but other things like ec on m really sounds like photog's input doesn't reach the devs.

Auto Iso works for me on on the 1D4 - you get faux M with auto iso and ec when you know the settings
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: wickidwombat on June 17, 2012, 07:26:17 PM
I dont know of any manufacturer that has auto iso that is really optimal yet

... which is very amazing, since iso is only the 3rd thing to calculate with apart from shutter speed & aperture. Flash may complicate things, but really, it can't be that hard to get these basic features right? Some crippling might be due to marketing concerns, but other things like ec on m really sounds like photog's input doesn't reach the devs.

Auto Iso works for me on on the 1D4 - you get faux M with auto iso and ec when you know the settings

yeah thats as good as it gets for canon, even the fuji x10 is better in auto iso implementation now to just get them to enable the EC dial in M mode...

but while your method works its more of a work around the problem than a slick implementation of how a simple easy to use auto iso in M mode with EC should work
Title: Re: 5D3 New Firmware
Post by: wickidwombat on June 17, 2012, 07:36:49 PM
It's surely the bean counters and MBA types making a mess of it all and not the engineers.

yes exactly and how is it that they can transcend any industry and create just as much of a balls up
do they actually teach them how to stuff things up completely when they do that useless MBA?
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on June 17, 2012, 08:06:09 PM
Are any of you complaining to the right people, namely Canon, or are you just making your cases here? I've sent e-mails to Canon USA about the 1/250 maximum and EC omission with "M" and Auto-ISO. Just a suggestion.

Both. Although I probably should fire off more direct Canon emails and a few less forum posts.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on June 17, 2012, 08:09:04 PM
Well, just a logical observation here...
If in Manual mode... why not just adjust your exposure yourself instead of setting the camera to do it?  (probably cannons logic)


Well we do just that. ;)

The thing is what about when you are shooting fast stuff in conditions that are constantly and rapidly changing. You won't have time to set it yourself and even using C1-C3 can be a little slow and a pain.

And the funny thing is, that by limiting the min shutter speed to something slow they keep it useful more for the situations where you can do it yourself as you say and less for the scenarios where you can't and AutoISO would be more necessarily useful.
Title: Re: 5D3 New Firmware
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on June 17, 2012, 08:10:47 PM
The video blogs had a pretty meh reaction to to it so I'm still hoping, but I think Canon is too stuck in it's new old ways to get it, sad to say, so I'm probably kidding myself. It's surely the bean counters and MBA types making a mess of it all and not the engineers.

I mean they did finally get it enough to add 1 series AF to 5 series and boost to a full 6fps and all so they improved and they did get much of it right, but was it because they got it or because they were still just laying back and only reacting when they had to? Had they not, if you think about it, the D800 woulda made the 5D3 look silly. The fact they still muddled up some video features and autoiso (and by muddled i basically mean crippled for ridiculous reasons) you do wonder. And the fact they thought they could just let the low iso sensor performance sit there in the same spot for a full half decade now makes you wonder too. They did get the basic body specs pretty sweet finally at least, for whatever reason.

The message got thru to Canon, and they opened a dedicated support facility in Hollywood, and are in the process of trotting out cinema bodies and lenses.
 
It was probably unrealistic to expect Canon to turn a 5D MK III into a 4K cinema body with XLR jacks, etc. but some actually thought it would happen and were disappointed.  Its a still body that does video and they are obviously going to differentiate it from higher end video bodies. 
 
Thats a pretty standard marketing scheme, but its also a practical one.  Some want a stills body with video, and some want a all out video body that can also do stills.

The wrong message got through. What revolution is there in a 20k video cam that is good? OK they have some smaller ones etc but still they killed their unique goose chasing after that and crippling the goose. And it's not things as basic as a bit higher IPM bitrates, focus peaking, zebras and crop modes are shockingly advanced features!
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: briansquibb on June 18, 2012, 02:35:41 AM
Are any of you complaining to the right people, namely Canon, or are you just making your cases here? I've sent e-mails to Canon USA about the 1/250 maximum and EC omission with "M" and Auto-ISO. Just a suggestion.

The M with autoiso and ec is available in the 1D4

Set Safety Shuft ON - ISO speed
Set Shutter Speed range minimum to the desired minimum speed
Set Auto ISo on
Shoot in AV mode

In the field the ISO will go up and down to get the correct exposure. EC can be set at this point
If the ISO gets to the minimum (100 even if L is set) then the shutter speed will adjusted upwards

In the field this works for me - I dont dynamically change the shutter speed in the middle of a shoot.

Would this work on the 5DIII if just the restriction on minimum shutter speed was removed?

For a 5DIII user I would be more interested in linking the metering to the AF point
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: AvTvM on June 18, 2012, 03:51:12 AM
The M with autoiso and ec is available in the 1D4

we are talking about the 5D 3 and a possible FW Update for it. So forget your stupid 1D 4 for a while and its totally awkward scratch-yourself-on-the-back-of-your-head implementation of pseudo Auto-ISO.

The 5D III and any other Canon EOS camera needs a firmware with a full and unfettered implementation of Auto-ISO. 

This means:
* user-settable upper and lower limits for 1.) ISO 2.) shutter time and  3.) aperture - to be used as required in   various exposure modes [Auto], P, Av, Tv, M
* plus regular operation of exposure correction in M with Auto-ISO on
... anything less is unacceptable and total crap.

oh ... and just to make sure: we want it NOW and we do NOT want it hidden away under unlabeled custom functions 91,92 to 99 plus safety shift enabled and CTRL-ALT-DELETE-DIRECT-PRINT-button pressed simultaneously ... oh no, we want it readily and easily accessible!

Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: John Thomas on June 18, 2012, 04:14:01 AM
The M with autoiso and ec is available in the 1D4

we are talking about the 5D 3 and a possible FW Update for it. So forget your stupid 1D 4 for a while and its totally awkward scratch-yourself-on-the-back-of-your-head implementation of pseudo Auto-ISO.

The 5D III and any other Canon EOS camera needs a firmware with a full and unfettered implementation of Auto-ISO. 

This means:
* user-settable upper and lower limits for 1.) ISO 2.) shutter time and  3.) aperture - to be used as required in   various exposure modes [Auto], P, Av, Tv, M
* plus regular operation of exposure correction in M with Auto-ISO on
... anything less is unacceptable and total crap.

oh ... and just to make sure: we want it NOW and we do NOT want it hidden away under unlabeled custom functions 91,92 to 99 plus safety shift enabled and CTRL-ALT-DELETE-DIRECT-PRINT-button pressed simultaneously ... oh no, we want it readily and easily accessible!

...And to take in account IS. The AutoISO doesn't take in account the IS. Think 70-200 f/2.8 IS. What Tv should I choose for AutoISO? 70? 200? Auto? But "Auto" raises the ISO on 1/(FLength) basis (ok, more or less) thus mitigating the advantage of having an IS on your lens.

They need to implement also an option like "Exposure Bias" in 1/3 stop in/decrements to handle this.

Just sayin'
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Marsu42 on June 18, 2012, 04:28:42 AM
...And to take in account IS. The AutoISO doesn't take in account the IS. Think 70-200 f/2.8 IS. What Tv should I choose for AutoISO? 70? 200? Auto? But "Auto" raises the ISO on 1/(FLength) basis (ok, more or less) thus mitigating the advantage of having an IS on your lens.

But better this way than the other way around (forced longer shutter speeds for IS lenses) because IS doesn't help if your scene has motion, it just dampens your shaking hand.

That having said, all customization of current dslrs is a joke given the fact that you've got an embedded computer in your hand. Even on my 25 year old eos620 with date back, I could program in custom shutter-aperture curves!

And since the Canon firmware is written as it is, even addons like magic lantern cannot do that much outside live view or with a considerable lag due to overriding Canon's settings.

But that's the future I'm afraid: the more capable devices get, the more concerned manufacturers will get with feature-locking them (see Apple and all other smartphones) to keep control over their product line.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: AvTvM on June 18, 2012, 11:55:02 AM
...And to take in account IS. The AutoISO doesn't take in account the IS. Think 70-200 f/2.8 IS. What Tv should I choose for AutoISO? 70? 200? Auto? But "Auto" raises the ISO on 1/(FLength) basis (ok, more or less) thus mitigating the advantage of having an IS on your lens.
They need to implement also an option like "Exposure Bias" in 1/3 stop in/decrements to handle this.
Just sayin'

I will not go through this endless loop again. Please read up on how exactly Auto-ISO is implemented on the Nikon D4 and D800 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/16 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/16)). This is as good as it gets currently. Although it is not complete or "perfect" either.

Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: briansquibb on June 18, 2012, 12:05:34 PM
The M with autoiso and ec is available in the 1D4

we are talking about the 5D 3 and a possible FW Update for it. So forget your stupid 1D 4 for a while and its totally awkward scratch-yourself-on-the-back-of-your-head implementation of pseudo Auto-ISO.

The 5D III and any other Canon EOS camera needs a firmware with a full and unfettered implementation of Auto-ISO. 

This means:
* user-settable upper and lower limits for 1.) ISO 2.) shutter time and  3.) aperture - to be used as required in   various exposure modes [Auto], P, Av, Tv, M
* plus regular operation of exposure correction in M with Auto-ISO on
... anything less is unacceptable and total crap.

oh ... and just to make sure: we want it NOW and we do NOT want it hidden away under unlabeled custom functions 91,92 to 99 plus safety shift enabled and CTRL-ALT-DELETE-DIRECT-PRINT-button pressed simultaneously ... oh no, we want it readily and easily accessible!

My stupid 1D4 does what you want the 5DIII to do. What is needed to improve the implementation is a minor menu change - although for me it isn't a problem

As for M mode with autoiso and ec - I can see the issues with that - so I guess that is personal preference.

PS The implementation in my stupid 1D4 looks to be the same as in the stupid 1DX. Still better a stupid implementation than none at all  ;)
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: AvTvM on June 18, 2012, 12:50:52 PM
My stupid 1D4 does what you want the 5DIII to do. What is needed to improve the implementation is a minor menu change - although for me it isn't a problem
...
PS The implementation in my stupid 1D4 looks to be the same as in the stupid 1DX. Still better a stupid implementation than none at all  ;)

no, not at all, the 1D4 does not do, what I would like the 5D 3 do with regards to Auto-ISO.

But more importantly, you got the wording wrong!

Stupid Canon is implementing Auto ISO in the 1D X in the same stupid way as already in the 1D IV and 1D III before. Without any improvements to either functionality or the awkwardly stupid ergonomics.

It is still CTRL*ALT*DELETE*CUSTOM FUNCTION*SAFETYSHIFT*DIRECT-PRINT! STUPID. ;-)

If you are happy with that, good for you. Me ... I am not.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: briansquibb on June 18, 2012, 01:05:22 PM
My stupid 1D4 does what you want the 5DIII to do. What is needed to improve the implementation is a minor menu change - although for me it isn't a problem
...
PS The implementation in my stupid 1D4 looks to be the same as in the stupid 1DX. Still better a stupid implementation than none at all  ;)

no, not at all, the 1D4 does not do, what I would like the 5D 3 do with regards to Auto-ISO.

But more importantly, you got the wording wrong!

Stupid Canon is implementing Auto ISO in the 1D X in the same stupid way as already in the 1D IV and 1D III before. Without any improvements to either functionality or the awkwardly stupid ergonomics.

It is still CTRL*ALT*DELETE*CUSTOM FUNCTION*SAFETYSHIFT*DIRECT-PRINT! STUPID. ;-)

If you are happy with that, good for you. Me ... I am not.

I understood you wanted to control the shutter speed, aperture and use autoiso with EC as well.

Is that not what you want to do??

With fixed AV and TV how would you want the camera to behave when iso gets to the minimum or the maximum then?
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: AvTvM on June 18, 2012, 01:43:49 PM
My stupid 1D4 does what you want the 5DIII to do. What is needed to improve the implementation is a minor menu change - although for me it isn't a problem
...
PS The implementation in my stupid 1D4 looks to be the same as in the stupid 1DX. Still better a stupid implementation than none at all  ;)

no, not at all, the 1D4 does not do, what I would like the 5D 3 do with regards to Auto-ISO.

But more importantly, you got the wording wrong!

Stupid Canon is implementing Auto ISO in the 1D X in the same stupid way as already in the 1D IV and 1D III before. Without any improvements to either functionality or the awkwardly stupid ergonomics.

It is still CTRL*ALT*DELETE*CUSTOM FUNCTION*SAFETYSHIFT*DIRECT-PRINT! STUPID. ;-)

If you are happy with that, good for you. Me ... I am not.

I understood you wanted to control the shutter speed, aperture and use autoiso with EC as well.
Is that not what you want to do??
With fixed AV and TV how would you want the camera to behave when iso gets to the minimum or the maximum then?

yes, but that is not all!  In P and Av I additionally want the cam to take focal length (also wioth zoom s!) and presence of an (activated) IS into account ... to automatically determine a suitable minimum shutter time with respect to avoiding camera shake induced blur - unless I specifically set a shutter time as lower limit.

And I want it implemented in an as user-friendly fashion as in the Nikon D4 and D800!
There you can EITHER set a min. shutter speed   OR set min. shutter speed to AUTO .. .and the cam will determine a suitable lower limit based on focal length in use (1/x) AND if desired, this algorithm can then be further finetuned towards using somewhat longer times (if the user trusts his steady-holding technique) or towards somewhat faster shutter times (if one feels a bit shaky ... ).

This is much more complex to describe here than to actually use the feature on the Nikon. Just read up in the link to the dpreview D800 review provided in one my previous posts.

If implemented in such a way, the Canon 5D3 would be egonomically even superior to Nikon D4/D800 in thei sregard ... because on the 5D3 these settings would be stored as part of the overall camera-setup in the 3 Custom-modes [C1...C3] on the main-mode dial from there the can be recalled instantly. E.g. I routinely store a "tripod-photography setting" under C2 on my 7D. In that setup, I would set a much lonfger minimum shutter speed for Auto-ISO than in setting C3, shich is my "action-oriented setup" (handheld).

Those custom settings C1/C2/C3 on the main mode dial are one area where Canon's implementation is far superior to Nikon's concept of storing user settings in 2 separate "storage banks". 

On Canon 1D/s/X cameras there is no mode dial, so this does not apply to them and makes operation somewhat different - and less efficient than on 5D II//III and 7D/60D. But this is admittedly a matter of personal preference and what you are most used to.   
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: John Thomas on June 18, 2012, 01:52:04 PM
...And to take in account IS. The AutoISO doesn't take in account the IS. Think 70-200 f/2.8 IS. What Tv should I choose for AutoISO? 70? 200? Auto? But "Auto" raises the ISO on 1/(FLength) basis (ok, more or less) thus mitigating the advantage of having an IS on your lens.
They need to implement also an option like "Exposure Bias" in 1/3 stop in/decrements to handle this.
Just sayin'

I will not go through this endless loop again. Please read up on how exactly Auto-ISO is implemented on the Nikon D4 and D800 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/16 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/16)). This is as good as it gets currently. Although it is not complete or "perfect" either.

Read it, thanks for the link. However I think that having much more precise control (ie. in +/- 1/3 stops or 1/2 stops, WRT Lens' Focal Length) is better than having a 5 step scale of -0.5xF, -0.25xF, 0, 2xF, 4xF - where F is the lens' focal length like the Nikon has.

Also, I think that my proposal is much more open to the future cases (being linear) compared with Nikon's which seems exponential / logarithmic.

As for GUI implementation, rather than a slider, I would propose a spin edit control (for ex see http://documentation.devexpress.com/#WindowsForms/clsDevExpressXtraEditorsSpinEdittopic (http://documentation.devexpress.com/#WindowsForms/clsDevExpressXtraEditorsSpinEdittopic)) which is much more compact space wise and can "hold" much more values than a slider. But if Canon want to use sliders like in AFMA screen, no problem for me. Just to implement it.

just my2c
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: AvTvM on June 18, 2012, 02:06:44 PM
...And to take in account IS. The AutoISO doesn't take in account the IS. Think 70-200 f/2.8 IS. What Tv should I choose for AutoISO? 70? 200? Auto? But "Auto" raises the ISO on 1/(FLength) basis (ok, more or less) thus mitigating the advantage of having an IS on your lens.
They need to implement also an option like "Exposure Bias" in 1/3 stop in/decrements to handle this.
Just sayin'

I will not go through this endless loop again. Please read up on how exactly Auto-ISO is implemented on the Nikon D4 and D800 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/16 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/16)). This is as good as it gets currently. Although it is not complete or "perfect" either.

Read it, thanks for the link. However I think that having much more precise control (ie. in +/- 1/3 stops or 1/2 stops, WRT Lens' Focal Length) is better than having a 5 step scale of -0.5xF, -0.25xF, 0, 2xF, 4xF - where F is the lens' focal length like the Nikon has.

Also, I think that my proposal is much more open to the future cases (being linear) compared with Nikon's which seems exponential / logarithmic.

As for GUI implementation, rather than a slider, I would propose a spin edit control (for ex see http://documentation.devexpress.com/#WindowsForms/clsDevExpressXtraEditorsSpinEdittopic (http://documentation.devexpress.com/#WindowsForms/clsDevExpressXtraEditorsSpinEdittopic)) which is much more compact space wise and can "hold" much more values than a slider. But if Canon want to use sliders like in AFMA screen, no problem for me. Just to implement it.

just my2c

Sorry, I cannot follow re. spin control .. what would that lookk like ... got a picture? 

I do not have the impression that Nikon's fine-tune feature is logarithmic ..  but I agree with you, that users should have even more direct control over Auto-ISO behaviour ... which parameter (Av,Tv,ISO) should be adjusted first, which second, which third and under which circumstances (min - max ranges, focal length used, IS active or not).

And I also do NOT consider the Nikon D4/D800 Auto-ISO feature to be the single best imaginable solution to this problem. I just know, it is far superior to any Canon implementation up to now. This is why I would like to see a better Auto-ISO implementation on Canon cameras ... making it fully functional AND user-controllable AND as easy to use as possible!  :-)
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: briansquibb on June 18, 2012, 05:41:58 PM
Perhaps it is me but M mode means fixing shutter speed and aperture and autoiso sets the metering - with ec for fine control

Lets just focus on this for the moment.

What do you propose to do when the iso hits either the max or the min?
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: AvTvM on June 18, 2012, 06:42:16 PM
Perhaps it is me but M mode means fixing shutter speed and aperture and autoiso sets the metering - with ec for fine control

Lets just focus on this for the moment.

What do you propose to do when the iso hits either the max or the min?

we are looking at more than one mode:

* M - is as you say. Av + Tv chosen by photog, camera choses AUto ISO. EC needs to be working "as normal". Min and max ISO Speed  - if set - would lead to under-/over exposure if threshold is hit.
Possibly some form of saftey shift could kick in, if activated by user ... allowing Av and/or Tv to be managed, if upper or lower threshold for these two parameters is not yet reached.

* P and Av: camera can manage ISO within user-specified range (upper/lower threshold value) and play with Tv ... either within user set upper/lower value or if set to AUTO ... then it would choose a suitable shutter time according to focal length and presence of activated IS and user-set finetuning (wowards faster or slower shutter times). AFAIK IS detection is missing even in Nikon D800/D4 iomplementation. Also mising is a clear user-settable prioritization of the two parameters ISO and shutter time ... meaning: first change ISO or first change shutter time or adjust both parameters at the same time but by a smaller amount? 

* Tv ... camera can manage ISO within user specified range and Aperture within user set range (upper/lower value - can not even be set in Nikon's implementation] - and ultimately limited by lens max. aperture opening. 

Thats it, as far as I can see it. :-)
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: briansquibb on June 18, 2012, 06:50:25 PM
Perhaps it is me but M mode means fixing shutter speed and aperture and autoiso sets the metering - with ec for fine control

What do you propose to do when the iso hits either the max or the min?

we are looking at more than one mode:

* M - is as you say. Av + Tv chosen by photog, camera choses AUto ISO. EC needs to be working "as normal". Min and max ISO Speed  - if set - would lead to under-/over exposure if threshold is hit.
Possibly some form of saftey shift could kick in, if activated by user ... allowing Av and/or Tv to be managed, if upper or lower threshold for these two parameters is not yet reached.


That is precisely what my faux M mode does on the 1D4 and the 1DX .....

The only improvement that could be made is a reduction of the 4 key presses for the min shutter speed

It would be good on the 5DIII to remove the min 1/250 shutter speed.

The biggest benefit will come with the inclusion of the AF point linked metering
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: AvTvM on June 18, 2012, 07:48:10 PM
That is precisely what my faux M mode does on the 1D4 and the 1DX .....
yes. I realize that. But "M" is only one mode. Nikon is even further ahead with Auto ISO in P and A(v).

It would be good on the 5DIII to remove the min 1/250 shutter speed.
That would be the bare minimum, but not nearly sufficient yet.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: opiuman on June 18, 2012, 09:24:35 PM
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/eos_slr_camera_systems/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii#DriversAndSoftware (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/eos_slr_camera_systems/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii#DriversAndSoftware)

Shows a 1.1.3 available as of 06/19/12 under Windows 7 x64. No changelog posted yet? Downloading now.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: bdunbar79 on June 18, 2012, 09:39:07 PM
My stupid 1D4 does what you want the 5DIII to do. What is needed to improve the implementation is a minor menu change - although for me it isn't a problem
...
PS The implementation in my stupid 1D4 looks to be the same as in the stupid 1DX. Still better a stupid implementation than none at all  ;)

no, not at all, the 1D4 does not do, what I would like the 5D 3 do with regards to Auto-ISO.

But more importantly, you got the wording wrong!

Stupid Canon is implementing Auto ISO in the 1D X in the same stupid way as already in the 1D IV and 1D III before. Without any improvements to either functionality or the awkwardly stupid ergonomics.

It is still CTRL*ALT*DELETE*CUSTOM FUNCTION*SAFETYSHIFT*DIRECT-PRINT! STUPID. ;-)

If you are happy with that, good for you. Me ... I am not.

I understood you wanted to control the shutter speed, aperture and use autoiso with EC as well.
Is that not what you want to do??
With fixed AV and TV how would you want the camera to behave when iso gets to the minimum or the maximum then?

yes, but that is not all!  In P and Av I additionally want the cam to take focal length (also wioth zoom s!) and presence of an (activated) IS into account ... to automatically determine a suitable minimum shutter time with respect to avoiding camera shake induced blur - unless I specifically set a shutter time as lower limit.

And I want it implemented in an as user-friendly fashion as in the Nikon D4 and D800!
There you can EITHER set a min. shutter speed   OR set min. shutter speed to AUTO .. .and the cam will determine a suitable lower limit based on focal length in use (1/x) AND if desired, this algorithm can then be further finetuned towards using somewhat longer times (if the user trusts his steady-holding technique) or towards somewhat faster shutter times (if one feels a bit shaky ... ).

This is much more complex to describe here than to actually use the feature on the Nikon. Just read up in the link to the dpreview D800 review provided in one my previous posts.

If implemented in such a way, the Canon 5D3 would be egonomically even superior to Nikon D4/D800 in thei sregard ... because on the 5D3 these settings would be stored as part of the overall camera-setup in the 3 Custom-modes [C1...C3] on the main-mode dial from there the can be recalled instantly. E.g. I routinely store a "tripod-photography setting" under C2 on my 7D. In that setup, I would set a much lonfger minimum shutter speed for Auto-ISO than in setting C3, shich is my "action-oriented setup" (handheld).

Those custom settings C1/C2/C3 on the main mode dial are one area where Canon's implementation is far superior to Nikon's concept of storing user settings in 2 separate "storage banks". 

On Canon 1D/s/X cameras there is no mode dial, so this does not apply to them and makes operation somewhat different - and less efficient than on 5D II//III and 7D/60D. But this is admittedly a matter of personal preference and what you are most used to.   

This makes no sense to me.  I want the 7D to be able to do all that too.  But it doesn't.  So guess what?  I bought a different camera.  If the 5D Mark III doesn't do what you want, then buy a different one.  Seems pretty simple to me.
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on June 19, 2012, 12:47:56 AM
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/eos_slr_camera_systems/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii#DriversAndSoftware (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/eos_slr_camera_systems/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii#DriversAndSoftware)

Shows a 1.1.3 available as of 06/19/12 under Windows 7 x64. No changelog posted yet? Downloading now.

it doesn't do much :(

no fixed autoiso

no zebra, focus peaking, higher bit rates or crop modes for video :(

Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: wickidwombat on June 19, 2012, 12:55:36 AM
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/eos_slr_camera_systems/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii#DriversAndSoftware (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/eos_slr_camera_systems/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii#DriversAndSoftware)

Shows a 1.1.3 available as of 06/19/12 under Windows 7 x64. No changelog posted yet? Downloading now.

it doesn't do much :(

no fixed autoiso

no zebra, focus peaking, higher bit rates or crop modes for video :(
no customisation of the rate button  :'(
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: drjlo on June 19, 2012, 01:01:39 AM
It's got nothing I need, so won't be doing a firmware update (with inherent possible dangers of any firmware update). 
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: V8Beast on June 19, 2012, 01:20:12 AM
I don't know what you guys did wrong, but I downloaded the new firmware and got an extra three stops of dynamic range ;D A $500 rebate check magically ejected out of the card slot, too ;D
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: wickidwombat on June 19, 2012, 01:21:47 AM
I don't know what you guys did wrong, but I downloaded the new firmware and got an extra three stops of dynamic range ;D A $500 rebate check magically ejected out of the card slot, too ;D

you got ripped off I got 16 more M E G A P I X E L S!  :o
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: briansquibb on June 19, 2012, 02:09:06 AM
I don't know what you guys did wrong, but I downloaded the new firmware and got an extra three stops of dynamic range ;D A $500 rebate check magically ejected out of the card slot, too ;D

you got ripped off I got 16 more M E G A P I X E L S!  :o

... and gave APS-H crop mode
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Wideopen on June 19, 2012, 02:17:41 AM
I don't know what you guys did wrong, but I downloaded the new firmware and got an extra three stops of dynamic range ;D A $500 rebate check magically ejected out of the card slot, too ;D

you got ripped off I got 16 more M E G A P I X E L S!  :o

Same here!  :P
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: AvTvM on June 19, 2012, 02:55:41 AM
and most importantly .. "Corrects mistakes in the Dutch, Italian, Korean, Norwegian, Polish, and Swedish menu screens"

looks like Canon management still did not get the message ...   >:(
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: John Thomas on June 19, 2012, 03:51:43 AM
Quote
That having said, all customization of current dslrs is a joke given the fact that you've got an embedded computer in your hand. Even on my 25 year old eos620 with date back, I could program in custom shutter-aperture curves!

How did you that?

...btw, the "embedded computer" from our hands is a monster, (especially if we talk about DiGIC 5) with a screen which has 1,040,000 dots. Remember, desktops and after that laptops had for many years a resolution of 1024x768 which means 786,432 dots...

I think that their main problem is that they are locked in pre-iPhone mindset. We have a super-CPU to do just one thing and it can do just in one way. Today the cameras are digital but still built with a mechanical mindset.

Guys, unlock that potential...
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: John Thomas on June 19, 2012, 04:14:33 AM
Quote
Sorry, I cannot follow re. spin control .. what would that lookk like ... got a picture? 

I do not have the impression that Nikon's fine-tune feature is logarithmic ..  but I agree with you, that users should have even more direct control over Auto-ISO behaviour ... which parameter (Av,Tv,ISO) should be adjusted first, which second, which third and under which circumstances (min - max ranges, focal length used, IS active or not).

Having the Nikon UI metaphor means that you are limited by the screen in showing values (see the attached image), while a spin edit (a box which increments or decrements values based on dial movements) allow much more values to hold inside. See for example the 2nd (animated) picture from the top at

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii/10 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii/10)

...besides that, yes, the real solution is to provide a professional GUI for exposure cuboid adjustments and save them as settings. What is exposure cuboid (aka incorrectly as "exposure triangle") see Matthew Miller's answer here:

http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/6598/what-is-the-exposure-triangle#12441 (http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/6598/what-is-the-exposure-triangle#12441)

Any takers in how this GUI/workflow would be?
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Marsu42 on June 19, 2012, 05:03:11 AM
Quote
That having said, all customization of current dslrs is a joke given the fact that you've got an embedded computer in your hand. Even on my 25 year old eos620 with date back, I could program in custom shutter-aperture curves!
How did you that?

It was the hard-to-find digital back for film eos bodies (not the one that just printed the date into your picture). It was quite some time ago I used this, but you basically you could program a custom "creative setting" like the ones built-in (sports = max. shutter, landscape = max. aperture). And it had a tiny keyboard to attach, those were the good ol' times of Canon being innovative :-) ... see http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/eos/eoscamera/620/index3.htm (http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/eos/eoscamera/620/index3.htm)
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on June 19, 2012, 06:41:44 PM
I don't know what you guys did wrong, but I downloaded the new firmware and got an extra three stops of dynamic range ;D A $500 rebate check magically ejected out of the card slot, too ;D

Hmm I didn't get any of that, still same old, same old dynamic image, no zebras, no peaking, there was a proposal from a super model embedded in the new firmware and I just married a super model, but yeah damn this firmware was a total disappoint, damn. All I really care about is dynamic range and instead I just have to settle for a super model. Thanks Canon.



Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: V8Beast on June 19, 2012, 09:40:54 PM
I don't know what you guys did wrong, but I downloaded the new firmware and got an extra three stops of dynamic range ;D A $500 rebate check magically ejected out of the card slot, too ;D

Hmm I didn't get any of that, still same old, same old dynamic image, no zebras, no peaking, there was a proposal from a super model embedded in the new firmware and I just married a super model, but yeah damn this firmware was a total disappoint, damn. All I really care about is dynamic range and instead I just have to settle for a super model. Thanks Canon.

You got the better deal. Can you please post some pics of your new wife ;D?
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: mirekti on January 16, 2013, 11:41:13 PM
Is it technically possible to improve the dynamic range of 5DIII via firmware update and if so how much do you think it would go?
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: VirtualRain on January 17, 2013, 01:46:25 AM
Perhaps it will upgrade the 5D3 to match the performance of the 6D ::)
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: knifez on January 17, 2013, 04:17:21 AM
I think that their main problem is that they are locked in pre-iPhone mindset. We have a super-CPU to do just one thing and it can do just in one way. Today the cameras are digital but still built with a mechanical mindset.

Guys, unlock that potential...
[/quote]

MagicLantern has been the activist in that regard. Hacking that little computer and make it do things the developers omitted. Would like to see others give that a go personally, a hackanon perhaps?

As for dynamic range, I would have though is a hardware limitation. These types of products take years to develop, and sensors are most probably selected in early in the development process and the rest is build around that.

RED, BMD & Phantom seem to be companies which can adapt a lot quicker to technological advances are they can focus their R&D teams on less products at a time and hence pump the latest sensors into their gear.

All subjective ideas there to stir the debating pot. :)



Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: tron on January 18, 2013, 06:32:40 AM
Quote
That having said, all customization of current dslrs is a joke given the fact that you've got an embedded computer in your hand. Even on my 25 year old eos620 with date back, I could program in custom shutter-aperture curves!

How did you that?

...btw, the "embedded computer" from our hands is a monster, (especially if we talk about DiGIC 5) with a screen which has 1,040,000 dots. Remember, desktops and after that laptops had for many years a resolution of 1024x768 which means 786,432 dots...

I think that their main problem is that they are locked in pre-iPhone mindset. We have a super-CPU to do just one thing and it can do just in one way. Today the cameras are digital but still built with a mechanical mindset.

Guys, unlock that potential...
It's not the Date Back which has these capabilities it's the Technical Back E (It fits EOS 620, 650,600,RT)
It has never been matched 100% It could program these curves, it could store technical data (shutter, aperture, FL, etc) about as much as 360 shots, it could imprint data on film (there was a small keyboard for that) and ... it could bracket up to nine shots with steps or 1/4th of a stop!
Title: Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
Post by: Marsu42 on January 18, 2013, 07:29:38 AM
It's not the Date Back which has these capabilities it's the Technical Back E (It fits EOS 620, 650,600,RT)
It has never been matched 100% It could program these curves

+1 ... I'm still missing the technical back on my old eos rt (next to the stellar release time)! The custom curves haven't been matched yet, it's still just a fixed "creative zone". It's really disappointing how the potential of the embedded cpu lies dormant, that's why I like Magic Lantern so much.