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Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on June 04, 2012, 06:49:00 AM

Title: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Canon Rumors on June 04, 2012, 06:49:00 AM
From Japan
A magazine in Japan called CAPA may have shown specs for 2 Canon cameras, the first being the 70D and the next being the long talked about EOS-3D. The magazine is pretty well respected, and all of this could be entirely plausible.

With the new Rebel coming on June 8, 2012, and the predicted mirrorless following soon after, I am unsure if either of these cameras are slated for an announcement any time soon.

Canon 70D

Canon EOS 3D

The above scan was sent to us, you can see more at [CW].

Source: [PF] [NL] [CW]

cr

Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: adhocphotographer on June 04, 2012, 07:08:27 AM
Sounds plausible (70D)! I’d be alright with that at the normal xxD pricing point...  A new improved sensor would be the main thing though!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Bob Howland on June 04, 2012, 07:26:32 AM
The 3D sounds wrong. Why a 1D class body when the Nikon D800 costs $3000 and appears to be selling quite well? And what's with the built-in flash? Firthermore, if this is intended as a studio-oriented camera, then even the speedlite transmitter doesn't make sense unless, of course, Canon is going to start selling studio flashes.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: KeithR on June 04, 2012, 07:31:57 AM
Furthermore, if this is intended as a studio-oriented camera

It's obviously not intended as a studio body - it sounds like the perfect wildlife/sport camera.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: moreorless on June 04, 2012, 07:35:56 AM
The 3D sounds wrong. Why a 1D class body when the Nikon D800 costs $3000 and appears to be selling quite well? And what's with the built-in flash? Firthermore, if this is intended as a studio-oriented camera, then even the speedlite transmitter doesn't make sense unless, of course, Canon is going to start selling studio flashes.

Two things come to mind...

1.Canon don't believe they can compete directly with the D800's sensor so there putting a high MP sensor into a higher end body with better FPS.

2.The sensor could be debuted in the 3D and then moved down to a cheaper entry level model priced below the 5D mk3.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Sith Zombie on June 04, 2012, 07:38:46 AM
70D looks spot on. Then we can expect the 7Dmkii to have similar or slightly lower mp, around 9 fps and possibly the 5Dmkiii af. This way the 70D would be an awesome 'do all' crop camera for semi pros but the 7D line would still be flagship, with faster shooting and af making it better for action, sports and birds in flight. Just like the current situation with the 60D/7D.
Not sure what to make of the 3D specs. I'v no doubt canon will release a high mp camera, just not sure about 1D class body....
Anyway it'll be out of my price range, so I'm more interested in the 70D  :P
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: pdirestajr on June 04, 2012, 07:49:26 AM
The 3D sounds wrong. Why a 1D class body when the Nikon D800 costs $3000 and appears to be selling quite well? And what's with the built-in flash? Firthermore, if this is intended as a studio-oriented camera, then even the speedlite transmitter doesn't make sense unless, of course, Canon is going to start selling studio flashes.

Sounds like they are just predicting this based on how the EOS-3 was positioned compared the the EOS-1 series. That camera has a 1 series body design (no dials), but lower build quality. It is also a high FPS camera.

So has been done.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Positron on June 04, 2012, 07:50:36 AM
Translation of 70D key points to the best of my ability from the posted article:

22 MP
Same 19 point AF system as 7D
6 FPS
Vari-angle display
Magnesium body
Photo/video live view modes
AFMA
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: lonelywhitelights on June 04, 2012, 07:52:00 AM
I can't ever see Canon bringing out a camera called the "3D" - unless it could shoot 3D - It's just a bit odd. "OUR NEW CAMERA THE EOS 3D! - but it doesn't shoot 3D so get that out of your heads first"

Nikon can get away with it since their "D" comes before numbers but sorry Canon - it would just cause too much confusion, people will just think... wtf?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: jouster on June 04, 2012, 08:00:58 AM
As always, it is worth pointing out that "3D" would be a terrible name for any camera that did not do, you know, *actual* 3D. It would set up that exact expectation in consumers' minds. 6D would seem to make more sense if you want to buy into this rumor.

Hard to believe though. It doesn't fit neatly into the product line, and another FF seems unlikely given that they can't make enough (or in the case of the 1Dx, any) of the current ones.

Edit: lonelywhitelights said it first.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: moreorless on June 04, 2012, 08:30:30 AM
Translation of 70D key points to the best of my ability from the posted article:

22 MP
Same 19 point AF system as 7D
6 FPS
Vari-angle display
Magnesium body
Photo/video live view modes
AFMA

And so the 70D swallows the 7D series whole for dinner.

Perhaps the 70D moves into the 7D's shoes as a more general purpose crop body and the 7D mk2 is more specifically targetted to the action market with better FPS and AF?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: jouster on June 04, 2012, 08:37:09 AM
Translation of 70D key points to the best of my ability from the posted article:

22 MP
Same 19 point AF system as 7D
6 FPS
Vari-angle display
Magnesium body
Photo/video live view modes
AFMA

And so the 70D swallows the 7D series whole for dinner.

So maybe the 7D gets an update too. :-)

How long can the 7D reasonably expect to out-spec the XXXD line? The XXD line? It is three years old, after all.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: RJSY on June 04, 2012, 09:16:02 AM
so where in canon's lineup will the 5d mkiii fall into???? right now it seems to be the #2 camera following the 1dx...... after the "3d" where will the mk iiifall into????
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: SambalOelek on June 04, 2012, 09:24:10 AM
after the "3d" where will the mk iiifall into????

Into the hands of photographers who do not need or want the high megapixel count and the 1-Series size/ruggedness :D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: neuroanatomist on June 04, 2012, 09:39:58 AM
The putative 3D specs sound interesting...  I wonder what "1D-class body" means - built-in grip, or just top end sealing?

Maybe I'll cancel my 1D X preorder?  Naaah.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: jdramirez on June 04, 2012, 10:52:42 AM
I have a 60D... and the upgraded 70D is appealing but not so much that I have to run out and get one while selling my 60D on Craigs list.  Having said that... I really do like the idea of have more focal points and a magnesium body.  But that just may be me.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: thure1982 on June 04, 2012, 10:53:14 AM
DAMN!
Thats f-n what I wanted in my 5D3...
I wanted build in flash-control...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: sleepnever on June 04, 2012, 11:40:50 AM
Its interesting that it points to the camera and says 7D, then in big bold letters says 70D and then in the description says 7D again. Unless its saying it will have a 7D body style and then comparing it to the 7D, I would point these out as errors and call the graphic fake.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: superotaku78 on June 04, 2012, 12:00:21 PM
It's talking about how it will keep the compact body/build style of the 7D but will add the flip out screen with live view as a major selling point. 
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: TW on June 04, 2012, 12:25:55 PM
As always, it is worth pointing out that "3D" would be a terrible name for any camera that did not do, you know, *actual* 3D. It would set up that exact expectation in consumers' minds.  -snip-

Edit: lonelywhitelights said it first.


I think you are underestimating folks just a bit when you say this. The group of pro and advanced amateur photographers who are able and willing to drop ~$4000 on a camera body are probably going to be bright enough to figure this out, don't you think? Sheesh.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: preppyak on June 04, 2012, 12:38:30 PM
As an astro-imager, I want more pixels. My telescope plus various optical components produces an image circle that pretty much covers an APS-C sensor. So I'll be perfectly happy in a couple of years when APS-C hits 40 MP, as it surely will.  ;D
Based on pixel density, I wouldnt be so sure you'll see a 40MP APS-C camera. Heck, even the D800's sensor (made for high MP) only captures 15-16mp stills in APS-C mode.

If memory serves me, the current Canon APS-C cameras are about 40-45mp as a full-frame equivalent. Making a 40mp APS-C is probably like making a 100+MP full-frame. And while I'm not sure of the particulars of your astro-photography, realize that you will likely lose any low-light ability. If people think the 7D is bad at ISO1600, they'd hate your camera at ISO400. You'd be giving it the light gathering ability of your average P&S. It might not matter for you if you can infinitely decrease shutter speed, but for most APS-C users, it'd be a deal breaker. You'd get your resolution, but be sacrificing noise performance.

http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Camera_System/pixel_density_01.htm (http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Camera_System/pixel_density_01.htm)

edit: To take this further, the 24MP D3200 has an advantage in terms of resolution relative to the field of view. For the D800 to get the same shot, it'd produce a lot less resolution. That's because the D3200 has a pixel density that is 50% higher than the D800. When the ISO numbers come out, it wouldn't surprise me if the D3200 is worse than the Ti cameras in low-light ability.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: hhelmbold on June 04, 2012, 12:39:16 PM
As always, it is worth pointing out that "3D" would be a terrible name for any camera that did not do, you know, *actual* 3D. It would set up that exact expectation in consumers' minds.  -snip-

Edit: lonelywhitelights said it first.


I think you are underestimating folks just a bit when you say this. The group of pro and advanced amateur photographers who are able and willing to drop ~$4000 on a camera body are probably going to be bright enough to figure this out, don't you think? Sheesh.

And I think it will mean that whoever thinks it is 3D, is only looking at one model - else they will definately buy the 5D, I mean, a fourth and fifth dimension must be amazing!  ;D

The EOS 3 camera was an amazing film camera and got me hooked on Canon - it will be great to see the same level of camera in the digital range. Just wonder if they will bring back an advanced eye sensor to assist with the focus point selection.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: preppyak on June 04, 2012, 12:40:09 PM
I think you are underestimating folks just a bit when you say this. The group of pro and advanced amateur photographers who are able and willing to drop ~$4000 on a camera body are probably going to be bright enough to figure this out, don't you think? Sheesh.
Yeah, it's like saying people are buying the 1DX because the X makes it seem more extreme!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Tymo93 on June 04, 2012, 12:41:20 PM
Interesting rumour. It's hard to believe that canon will come out with a 70d before a 7dmk2 as the 7d is older than the 60d...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: preppyak on June 04, 2012, 12:48:11 PM
Interesting rumour. It's hard to believe that canon will come out with a 70d before a 7dmk2 as the 7d is older than the 60d...
Thats the nature of consumer v pro level cameras. The Ti cameras get updated yearly. The xxD cameras get updated about every 2 years. Anything in the xD level usually takes more like 3 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Canon_DSLR_cameras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Canon_DSLR_cameras)

Also, if releasing a new 7D at $2000+ has the same effect as the 5DIII did on the 5DII (lowering the price 20%), than nobody would buy a 60D. They'd end up with the 7D costing the same as a 60D, and nobody in their right mind would turn down AFMA, 8fps v 5fps, weather sealing, etc for a swivel screen. Also, the T4i is getting the 60D's autofocus, so again, fewer reasons to buy the 60D. It's why it will probably get upgraded first.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Tymo93 on June 04, 2012, 01:05:46 PM
Interesting rumour. It's hard to believe that canon will come out with a 70d before a 7dmk2 as the 7d is older than the 60d...
Thats the nature of consumer v pro level cameras. The Ti cameras get updated yearly. The xxD cameras get updated about every 2 years. Anything in the xD level usually takes more like 3 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Canon_DSLR_cameras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Canon_DSLR_cameras)

Also, if releasing a new 7D at $2000+ has the same effect as the 5DIII did on the 5DII (lowering the price 20%), than nobody would buy a 60D. They'd end up with the 7D costing the same as a 60D, and nobody in their right mind would turn down AFMA, 8fps v 5fps, weather sealing, etc for a swivel screen. Also, the T4i is getting the 60D's autofocus, so again, fewer reasons to buy the 60D. It's why it will probably get upgraded first.


Makes sense, thanks
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: IronMike on June 04, 2012, 01:28:06 PM
I'm surprised that no-one has brought this up yet, but this really sounds like an amalgamation of the 7D and the xxD lines into a single line once again...

Mike
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: dunkers on June 04, 2012, 02:41:53 PM
I really hope that the specs for the 70D are true. I'm not a huge fan of the increased megapixel count, but I really like the AF system and the body material.

If they do decide to come out with another 7D (I hope they don't because it threw off Canon's lineup), I hope that it is essentially a cropped 1DX.

Aps-c
18mp
Digic 5+
8.5fps or 10?
61-point AF system of the 1DX or a slightly dumbed down version
Weather sealing like the previous 7D
Built in flash

Such a camera would be a great backup to the 1DX for sports photographers. Or it can be for sports photographers who can't shell out $7k for the 1DX.
Sure it's probably not a huge upgrade from the original, but the new digic 5+ should complement the sensor nicely as well as the improved AF system. As far as the fps goes, 8.5 should be plenty or bump it up to 10.

Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Tymo93 on June 04, 2012, 02:53:34 PM
If they do decide to come out with another 7D (I hope they don't because it threw off Canon's lineup), I hope that it is essentially a cropped 1DX.

The only reason I would prefer to stay with a 7D or a 7DmkII(if it comes out) over the 70D, is because of the tilty screen which I hate very much.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: projek_01 on June 04, 2012, 03:09:33 PM
I just picked up a 7D for $1300 CAD which is about 1260USD. If you guys were me, would you guys return it and wait for th 70D? I just use it for travel pictures and want to get into video making. Based on the MSRP of the 50D, the 70D would be around $1400USD?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: HurtinMinorKey on June 04, 2012, 03:12:38 PM
3D: If it has dual Digic5's, I wonder if they'll harness it's power to pump out some legit, high bit-rate video?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: JurijTurnsek on June 04, 2012, 04:06:05 PM
still no 1080p60? so, if the 5D mk III doesn't have, we'll have to wait for mk IV and the trickle-down effect? lame.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: PhotoCharlie on June 04, 2012, 04:13:43 PM
Interesting rumour. It's hard to believe that canon will come out with a 70d before a 7dmk2 as the 7d is older than the 60d...
Thats the nature of consumer v pro level cameras. The Ti cameras get updated yearly. The xxD cameras get updated about every 2 years. Anything in the xD level usually takes more like 3 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Canon_DSLR_cameras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Canon_DSLR_cameras)

Also, if releasing a new 7D at $2000+ has the same effect as the 5DIII did on the 5DII (lowering the price 20%), than nobody would buy a 60D. They'd end up with the 7D costing the same as a 60D, and nobody in their right mind would turn down AFMA, 8fps v 5fps, weather sealing, etc for a swivel screen. Also, the T4i is getting the 60D's autofocus, so again, fewer reasons to buy the 60D. It's why it will probably get upgraded first.

I agree that the 60D will be replaced first.  Have you noticed the 60D showing up in non-photo centric resellers, like Sams Club?  When I saw that about 6 weeks ago, I realized that it was only a matter of a few months before the 70D was announced.  The timing is getting close.

I also firmly believe that the 60Da was introduced to use up excess 60D inventory with a reasonably minor modification.

I really hope the 70D is more like the 7D than the 60D.  The 60D IMO was a big step backward toward the XXXD line and not a step up from the 50D.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Marine03 on June 04, 2012, 04:28:47 PM



I agree that the 60D will be replaced first.  Have you noticed the 60D showing up in non-photo centric resellers, like Sams Club?  When I saw that about 6 weeks ago, I realized that it was only a matter of a few months before the 70D was announced.  The timing is getting close.


[/quote]

Costco has been selling a 60D kit for I think close to a year already.  However I feel like I keep seeing more add's online for it. 
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: hmmm on June 04, 2012, 05:08:54 PM
I'm surprised that no-one has brought this up yet, but this really sounds like an amalgamation of the 7D and the xxD lines into a single line once again...

Mike

+1 to that.   The 22 mp sensor would then trickle down to the T5i a year or so from now.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: V8Beast on June 04, 2012, 05:10:41 PM
No mention of DR specs on the 3D? What a useless rumor.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: awinphoto on June 04, 2012, 05:26:34 PM
No mention of DR specs on the 3D? What a useless rumor.

 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Tymo93 on June 04, 2012, 06:54:32 PM
I just picked up a 7D for $1300 CAD which is about 1260USD. If you guys were me, would you guys return it and wait for th 70D? I just use it for travel pictures and want to get into video making. Based on the MSRP of the 50D, the 70D would be around $1400USD?

If you're getting into video than the 70D would be a much better choice...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: wickidwombat on June 04, 2012, 06:55:47 PM
erg :( the 3D specs look good except for the bulky 1D body
if it was a 5D size body it would be pretty sweet
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: pwp on June 04, 2012, 07:26:45 PM
erg :( the 3D specs look good except for the bulky 1D body
if it was a 5D size body it would be pretty sweet
WW, have run the tape measure over the 5D3 and popped it on the scales? With the BG-E11 grip it's taller, thicker, bulkier and around 30 grams heavier than the 1D Mk4. I was surprised. Middle age spread?

Canon seems to be heading Super Sized these days. The 600EX-RT has bulked up noticeably from the 580's, the 5D3 is big & lumpy & the 1DX is up in most dimensions over the 1D Mk4. I'm going to need a bigger bag! At least the Great-White lenses have shed some weight...

PW
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: wickidwombat on June 04, 2012, 09:08:29 PM
I dont use grips and with modern batteries being so good the integrated grip is pretty much a dinosaur except for maintaining best weather sealing, intergrated grip is something i would rather not have if possible 5D sized bodies with no grip is about perfect for me.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: AdamJ on June 04, 2012, 09:22:26 PM
Interesting rumour. It's hard to believe that canon will come out with a 70d before a 7dmk2 as the 7d is older than the 60d...
Thats the nature of consumer v pro level cameras. The Ti cameras get updated yearly. The xxD cameras get updated about every 2 years. Anything in the xD level usually takes more like 3 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Canon_DSLR_cameras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Canon_DSLR_cameras)

Also, if releasing a new 7D at $2000+ has the same effect as the 5DIII did on the 5DII (lowering the price 20%), than nobody would buy a 60D. They'd end up with the 7D costing the same as a 60D, and nobody in their right mind would turn down AFMA, 8fps v 5fps, weather sealing, etc for a swivel screen. Also, the T4i is getting the 60D's autofocus, so again, fewer reasons to buy the 60D. It's why it will probably get upgraded first.

I can only speak for the UK market but since the 5DIII's launch (at £2,999, about $4,615), prices for the 5DII here have been edging up. We certainly haven't seen any price drop since March, let alone a 20% drop.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on June 04, 2012, 09:26:08 PM
I just picked up a 7D for $1300 CAD which is about 1260USD. If you guys were me, would you guys return it and wait for th 70D? I just use it for travel pictures and want to get into video making. Based on the MSRP of the 50D, the 70D would be around $1400USD?

This is a rumors site, its for fun.  if you start making buy and sell decisions based on rumors, most of the time you will get bit.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Ricku on June 05, 2012, 02:25:27 AM
But will this camera show an impressive bump in dynamic range, or will it be another lackluster?.. Canon's next high MP camera won't steal the "WOW-factor" from the D800 sensor if it can't beat or at least match the DR.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it has the same DR + banding as the 5D3!  ::)

It is sad and pitiful that Canon just can't seem to catch up in the DR department. I know there are fellow canonites on here who pretends that they don't care much about DR, but you all gotta agree that it is quite silly that Canon haven't been able to improve their low ISO dynamic range since 2007.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: moreorless on June 05, 2012, 03:07:27 AM
But will this camera show an impressive bump in dynamic range, or will it be another lackluster?.. Canon's next high MP camera won't steal the "WOW-factor" from the D800 sensor if it can't beat or at least match the DR.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it has the same DR + banding as the 5D3!  ::)

It is sad and pitiful that Canon just can't seem to catch up in the DR department. I know there are fellow canonites on here who pretends that they don't care much about DR, but you all gotta agree that it is quite silly that Canon haven't been able to improve their low ISO dynamic range since 2007.

Perhaps thats why Canon are taking the "1Ds" route? if they can't compete with Nikon/Sony on DR then going that route means there not in as direct competition with the D800.

The same could be true if the sensor was passed down to a lower end FF body (ala the 1Ds3 and 5D2) if the price were significantly lower than the D800
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Albi86 on June 05, 2012, 03:47:24 AM
As far as the 3D is concerned, I think it will be priced around 4500€ body only, so way above the capacity of my pockets :P What I think it will happen though, is that the 5D3 price will sink quite a bit. That could make it interesting.

With the rumours of a Nikon D600, I think Canon sees they haven't the technology to compete in the segment of a low-cost FF. I think they will bet on the 7D2, so offering a very high-end APS-C to compete with a low-end FF.

Honestly though, if the 70D has 22MP and AFMA for most users (probably me as well) it will be quite enough.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: moreorless on June 05, 2012, 04:10:54 AM
With the rumours of a Nikon D600, I think Canon sees they haven't the technology to compete in the segment of a low-cost FF. I think they will bet on the 7D2, so offering a very high-end APS-C to compete with a low-end FF.

If they can come up with a 30 MP sensor then surely they do have the tech, its just a question of whether they can or will offer it at a lower price. Everything else needed for a lower level FF body has been around for years.

The rumoured 7D mk2 doesnt seem like it targets the same market as the rumoured D600 at all to me, a market that Canon have previously dominated with the 5D mk2.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Albi86 on June 05, 2012, 04:46:06 AM
Exactly, I said "in the segment of a low-cost FF" ;)

The 5D3 is not that amazing spec-wise, I don't see many ways to downgrade it heavily to around 2000€ body only while keeping it attractive. On the other hand, if you keep the new sensor, the Digic5 and a decent AF (even the now old 19-points one), reasons to spend almost double as much for the 5D3 grow thin. Nikon has much more room to manouvre in this sense.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: moreorless on June 05, 2012, 06:03:43 AM
Exactly, I said "in the segment of a low-cost FF" ;)

The 5D3 is not that amazing spec-wise, I don't see many ways to downgrade it heavily to around 2000€ body only while keeping it attractive. On the other hand, if you keep the new sensor, the Digic5 and a decent AF (even the now old 19-points one), reasons to spend almost double as much for the 5D3 grow thin. Nikon has much more room to manouvre in this sense.

I disagree, besides sensor resolution there looks to be many areas where a budget FF model could be downgraded from the 5D3...

Lesser AF
Lower FPS
5D mk2 level build
less than 100% viewfinder
1 card slot
Lesser video performance
etc

If Canon were including a 30 MP sensor that leaves them room to offer lesser specs than the D600 in other areas, perhaps not to the same degree as the 5D mk2 compaired to the D700 and not everything on that list but enough to differentiate from the 5D3.

6D

30 MP
4 FPS
5D mk2 level build
100% viewfinder
new 20ish point AF system
1 card slot
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Albi86 on June 05, 2012, 06:23:12 AM
Exactly, I said "in the segment of a low-cost FF" ;)

The 5D3 is not that amazing spec-wise, I don't see many ways to downgrade it heavily to around 2000€ body only while keeping it attractive. On the other hand, if you keep the new sensor, the Digic5 and a decent AF (even the now old 19-points one), reasons to spend almost double as much for the 5D3 grow thin. Nikon has much more room to manouvre in this sense.

I disagree, besides sensor resolution there looks to be many areas where a budget FF model could be downgraded from the 5D3...

Lesser AF
Lower FPS
5D mk2 level build
less than 100% viewfinder
1 card slot
Lesser video performance
etc

If Canon were including a 30 MP sensor that leaves them room to offer lesser specs than the D600 in other areas, perhaps not to the same degree as the 5D mk2 compaired to the D700 and not everything on that list but enough to differentiate from the 5D3.

6D

30 MP
4 FPS
5D mk2 level build
100% viewfinder
new 20ish point AF system
1 card slot

A camera featuring a new 30MP sensor must be placed above the 5D3, so I don't see how it would come into play for a low-end camera. Not until the next generation, at least. Right now Nikon can offer a 24MP camera which would be quite fine and yet quite less than the D800. I'm not sure Canon can do the same.
VF coverage, video perfomrmances, lesser AF (if still effective) and such things are quite an acceptable loss for a -50% on the price tag of a FF with the same IQ level. Amateurs would be more than content with it. I would like it to be so, but I doubt it strongly.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Marsu42 on June 05, 2012, 08:27:12 AM
22 MP
Same 19 point AF system as 7D
6 FPS
Vari-angle display
Magnesium body
Photo/video live view modes
AFMA

Yup, that should do it and make me upgrade. Basically, this is Canon marketing saying they screwed up the 60d specs (plastic body, no afma, old af). And to me, this looks like the 60d/7d fusion, though with lower fps - I hardly see a 7d2 above these specs.

Now we'll have to wait how the 22mp sensor does, but I won't get excited until real world reviews shows it has not only more mp, but significant noise and/or dr improvements, too.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Orangutan on June 05, 2012, 09:12:20 AM
It is sad and pitiful that Canon just can't seem to catch up in the DR department.

Ricku, this is the error you keep making: who says they can't? Maybe they just choose not to do so?  Remember, Canon is a business and, according to the limited information the public has, their DSLR line-up appears to be profitable.  It would be the height of (business) stupidity to throw their best tech into the market until they are forced to do so by their competition.  E.g. why would Honda give you an Acura at a Civic price?  That's one reason I appreciate the D800 -- it should put some market pressure on Canon.

It's legitimate to be disappointed with the product features, but you can't fault their business decisions.   There is nothing "sad and pitiful" about a business making boatloads of money.  And furthermore, we have zero information about what tech they could put into their product line.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: DB on June 05, 2012, 10:17:04 AM
It is sad and pitiful that Canon just can't seem to catch up in the DR department.

Ricku, this is the error you keep making: who says they can't? Maybe they just choose not to do so?  Remember, Canon is a business and, according to the limited information the public has, their DSLR line-up appears to be profitable.  It would be the height of (business) stupidity to throw their best tech into the market until they are forced to do so by their competition.  E.g. why would Honda give you an Acura at a Civic price?  That's one reason I appreciate the D800 -- it should put some market pressure on Canon.

It's legitimate to be disappointed with the product features, but you can't fault their business decisions.   There is nothing "sad and pitiful" about a business making boatloads of money.  And furthermore, we have zero information about what tech they could put into their product line.

Plus Canon Inc.'s R&D spend has fallen over the last 2 years by a couple of percent to 8.5% of net sales (FY2011), still higher than Nikon's 6.7%, but the major difference is that Canon have stated anecdotally that Office & Industrial R&D is growing, thus implies 'Consumer' division (includes DSLRs) has fallen by a larger amount.

As you say we don't know the finer detail, nor will they ever tell us, but you can be sure that they're more interested in advertising/marketing spend (not adding features or improving sensor technology), especially for their new 'growth' markets (Emerging Markets + Asia, what their annual report states clearly) so that they can sell more units - box shifting - is the name of the game now.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: unfocused on June 05, 2012, 10:42:08 AM
Before people get too excited, it would be nice if someone could provide a complete translation.

I went to the magazine's website and the English translation (a robot translation I admit) describes the article as "boldly predicting the future of full-frame and APS-C cameras."

This article sure looks to me like one of those regular features that Popular Photography and similar magazines do, where they gather together a bunch of "experts" and have them speculate on future models. In other words, not a rumor or inside scoop, but just speculation by editors and/or contributors to the magazine.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Lee Jay on June 05, 2012, 12:52:12 PM
I dont use grips and with modern batteries being so good the integrated grip is pretty much a dinosaur except for maintaining best weather sealing, intergrated grip is something i would rather not have if possible 5D sized bodies with no grip is about perfect for me.

Absolutely, 100% agree.

They did it with the 1V/1VHS, I don't see why they don't do it with the 1D bodies now.  It's the major thing that turns me off to a 1-series body and the reason I've never even considered buying one.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: cliffwang on June 05, 2012, 12:53:21 PM
A camera featuring a new 30MP sensor must be placed above the 5D3, so I don't see how it would come into play for a low-end camera. Not until the next generation, at least. Right now Nikon can offer a 24MP camera which would be quite fine and yet quite less than the D800. I'm not sure Canon can do the same.
VF coverage, video perfomrmances, lesser AF (if still effective) and such things are quite an acceptable loss for a -50% on the price tag of a FF with the same IQ level. Amateurs would be more than content with it. I would like it to be so, but I doubt it strongly.
For me MP is not the key point to decide high/low end camera.  5D3 has higher MP than 1DX, but 1DX if flagship.  High MP will bring more details, but it trade off the high ISO and FPS.  If a camera's value/class = features + performance + build.  MP is only one of the factor for a camera's value.  We don't know many details of the new FF camera yet, so actually it's too early to argue it should be 3D or 6D.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: aznable on June 05, 2012, 01:27:52 PM

Plus Canon Inc.'s R&D spend has fallen over the last 2 years by a couple of percent to 8.5% of net sales (FY2011), still higher than Nikon's 6.7%, but the major difference is that Canon have stated anecdotally that Office & Industrial R&D is growing, thus implies 'Consumer' division (includes DSLRs) has fallen by a larger amount.

it's the 8.5% of a 100% that's 4 or 5 times bigger than nikon, and nikon has reduced expenses on r&d of sensors. my guess is that canon is spending more than nikon on r&d
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: preppyak on June 05, 2012, 01:58:52 PM
We don't know many details of the new FF camera yet, so actually it's too early to argue it should be 3D or 6D.
Well, the original post actually does mention specs (though they could be entirely wrong

    30 megapixels, 1D-class body
    Dual Digic5 processors for 6 FPS
    61-point AF system, major functions same as 1DX
    Equipped with flash (or speedlite transmitter)

There's no way that camera would cost less than the 5DIII, since it has all the specs of the 5DIII, dual Digic5, potentially a speedlight transmitter, and its higher MP. If they introduced that camera at $2500, it'd destroy the D800, but it'd also kill the 5DIII.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: cliffwang on June 05, 2012, 02:02:41 PM
Well, the original post actually does mention specs (though they could be entirely wrong

    30 megapixels, 1D-class body
    Dual Digic5 processors for 6 FPS
    61-point AF system, major functions same as 1DX
    Equipped with flash (or speedlite transmitter)

There's no way that camera would cost less than the 5DIII, since it has all the specs of the 5DIII, dual Digic5, potentially a speedlight transmitter, and its higher MP. If they introduced that camera at $2500, it'd destroy the D800, but it'd also kill the 5DIII.
If the specs is true and for 2.5K, I will buy one for sure.  Actually I may buy two.  I think that will just not happen.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: moreorless on June 05, 2012, 02:50:54 PM
A camera featuring a new 30MP sensor must be placed above the 5D3, so I don't see how it would come into play for a low-end camera. Not until the next generation, at least. Right now Nikon can offer a 24MP camera which would be quite fine and yet quite less than the D800. I'm not sure Canon can do the same.
VF coverage, video perfomrmances, lesser AF (if still effective) and such things are quite an acceptable loss for a -50% on the price tag of a FF with the same IQ level. Amateurs would be more than content with it. I would like it to be so, but I doubt it strongly.

You seem to be making the assumption that higher resolution must equal a higher end body, compairing the 1D4 to the recent Rebels shows that itsnt the case.

Personally I'd say that if the D600 specs are correct they'll loose Nikon more D800 business than the 6D specs I listed would Canon 5D3 business. I think the 5D2 showed that resolution comes first for a large part of the amature market, there prepaired to work around some weaknesses to get the best quality where as pro's want the most efficent system and only enough resolution to suit there business needs.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: briansquibb on June 05, 2012, 03:57:57 PM
I dont use grips and with modern batteries being so good the integrated grip is pretty much a dinosaur except for maintaining best weather sealing, intergrated grip is something i would rather not have if possible 5D sized bodies with no grip is about perfect for me.

Shooting in portrait is SOOOO much easier with 1 series body or gripped others

Went for a walk with the 7D + 70-300L and it felt like a toy.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Marsu42 on June 05, 2012, 04:10:23 PM
Went for a walk with the 7D + 70-300L and it felt like a toy.

I'll keep that passage in mind and cite it occasionally when there's some confusion by new forum members about what the standard around here is :-o ... a real man needs a real man's camera!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: jweu on June 05, 2012, 06:02:15 PM
Canon will release a 30MP Body. Additionaly they will release a black and white body for all those people bought everything else yet.

We need MTF with 100 lines per mm to get aware, which lenses are good enough for more than 15MP. Up to now, we only can guess or read other sources than canon.com to find quality lenses.

Zeiss will fill the gap with high quality lenses: Canon is not offering MTF-charts with 100 lines per mm and so we think they don't trust there own quality.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Tymo93 on June 05, 2012, 06:39:29 PM
Shooting in portrait is SOOOO much easier with 1 series body or gripped others

Went for a walk with the 7D + 70-300L and it felt like a toy.

^^ +1
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: wickidwombat on June 05, 2012, 07:27:43 PM
I dont use grips and with modern batteries being so good the integrated grip is pretty much a dinosaur except for maintaining best weather sealing, intergrated grip is something i would rather not have if possible 5D sized bodies with no grip is about perfect for me.

Shooting in portrait is SOOOO much easier with 1 series body or gripped others

Went for a walk with the 7D + 70-300L and it felt like a toy.

meh i've shot 1D bodies and still keep the mk3 but honestly i'm not a fan of grips i'd rather lose the bulk
i find shooting portraits just fine with non gripped bodies. all presonal preference really. its a pity they dont make non gripped 1D bodies like the good old 1V but the 5Dmk3 is as close as they have ever been
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: Ronnie on June 06, 2012, 02:32:07 AM
lonelywhitelights  and jouster  is absolutly right. The first thing that falls to mind reading 3D is a camara able to make 3D-movie. Did Canon made af EOS 3D for 5 years ago it would be just another camara name but today, no way.
So let's call it 4D or 6D depending how the specs. will position it agains the 5D mark III.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan
Post by: psolberg on June 06, 2012, 08:22:45 AM
Quote
The magazine is pretty well respected, and all of this could be entirely plausible

LOL not they are NOT. they are the guys that predicted the D700x, and other models that NEVER happened. NR said it best

http://nikonrumors.com/2012/06/05/nikon-d400-predictions-in-the-japanese-capa-magazine.aspx/#more-40344 (http://nikonrumors.com/2012/06/05/nikon-d400-predictions-in-the-japanese-capa-magazine.aspx/#more-40344)

these guys have NEVER been right.