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Gear Talk => Deals on Gear => Topic started by: expatinasia on June 04, 2012, 10:16:30 PM

Title: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: expatinasia on June 04, 2012, 10:16:30 PM
I am looking for some advice as I have never sold a camera, nevermind 10 of them!

I have found 10 brand new 1D Mark IVs which are VERY reasonably priced (US$4,000 or £2,600). I have never seen them so cheap, and know I could make a little money selling them on.

I could buy them all and sell them but how?

They are genuine, brand new as mentioned, full international Canon warranty etc.

I will be travelling back to the UK in July, but am based here in Asia Pacific.

Of course I could carry one or even two back without the box, but surely customers would want the box too.

What would you do?
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on June 04, 2012, 10:44:10 PM
The cameras only have a warranty when accompanies by a sales receipt from a authorized dealer, so it sounds like no warranty.  Hopefully, they have not been stolen.
 
There is a big demand for them on ebay, you can sell them and ship to the USA / Canada with no duty. However, unless you have a good ebay selling record, it might be difficult selling high end items.  Certainly PayPal will hold on to your money until the buyer is happy.
 
 
Contact Adorama or B&H, ask them if they are interested, but you will need to explain how you acquired them and provide proof that they are legitimate and not stolen.  That might turn a quick $3,000 or $4,000 profit to you.
 
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: expatinasia on June 04, 2012, 10:51:11 PM
First of all they would be purchased by me from an authorised dealer with full receipt etc. They are definitely not stolen, I just think the shop in question has made a mistake with the price.

I had not thought of sending them to the US. I will have to look into how much it would cost to send there.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on June 04, 2012, 10:59:39 PM
First of all they would be purchased by me from an authorised dealer with full receipt etc. They are definitely not stolen, I just think the shop in question has made a mistake with the price.

I had not thought of sending them to the US. I will have to look into how much it would cost to send there.

That sounds like a good deal.
 
Shipping rates via DHL are fairly good from Asia.  Use a shipping company that has a contract to get low rates, you might get the high quote if you just walked in off the street.
 
I'm not sure about income taxes, PayPal reports annual sales volumes over $20,000 to the IRS, but a offshore seller will not likely run into that issue.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: expatinasia on June 04, 2012, 11:06:37 PM
Thanks for the suggestions Mt Spokane Photography. Would I not make more profit though if I sold in the UK where cameras seem to be more expensive?

Also how important is the box to most buyers? I mean, I could hand carry two brand new 1D Mark IVs into the UK but if I have the box then it could complicate duty issues.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on June 04, 2012, 11:44:59 PM
Thanks for the suggestions Mt Spokane Photography. Would I not make more profit though if I sold in the UK where cameras seem to be more expensive?

Also how important is the box to most buyers? I mean, I could hand carry two brand new 1D Mark IVs into the UK but if I have the box then it could complicate duty issues.

Thanks.

I'm not sure about UK Sales, being from the USA.  Certainly, they have stiff import and GST taxes, you might be better off getting the seller to provide a receipt showing a quantity discount, and just paying the taxes.  Then you do not put a buyer at risk.  That original box is going to be worth $$$ as far as sales price goes.
 
I've found that a person does need to understand all the ways you can get burned with imports.  I import products from China for resale in the USA.  They really pile on the fees.  Shipping and fees are sometimes more that the cost of the product.
 
Shipments to me usually have a few packages opened at random by customs, and are sometimes x-rayed as well.  They charge to truck them to a warehouse for inspection, charge for inspection, charge to truck them back to the holding warehouse.  Loading and unloading fees everywhere.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: expatinasia on June 04, 2012, 11:58:45 PM
Thanks again Mt Spokane Photography.

It is because of those fees etc that I am more tempted to hand carry one or two at a time to the UK, rather than ship bulk which could also create export issues.

Also, buying 10 in one go is a big amount. Would be easier for me now, to buy 2, carry them to the UK and repeat.

Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: Wildfire on June 13, 2012, 06:51:30 PM
The box is definitely worth keeping for items you plan to sell.

Would it be at all possible to hand-carry the camera bodies but break down the boxes and fold them flat to lay on one side of your suitcase/luggage? Then reassemble the boxes once you're back home. Not sure how strict customs would be about this but it might be worth a try.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: expatinasia on June 14, 2012, 09:38:01 PM
The box is definitely worth keeping for items you plan to sell.

Would it be at all possible to hand-carry the camera bodies but break down the boxes and fold them flat to lay on one side of your suitcase/luggage? Then reassemble the boxes once you're back home. Not sure how strict customs would be about this but it might be worth a try.

Thanks Wildfire. Yes, I had thought of breaking them down. I think it would be fine to do - I can prove I need the cameras for my work, and that I am in the UK to do that work (even though I am British) - but not sure how customs would see it if I were stopped, as I would obviously be telling them that the cameras would be heading out once my assignments were finished.

I had also thought of breaking the boxes down and sending them by post and just carrying the bodies as I would normally.

Anyway. If anyone is interested in one send me a message. I will be back in the UK (around the London area) in about 4 weeks (for a few weeks) and could carry two - one which I would have to use for my work while there, and another that has not even been turned on. I could sell both while in the UK as long as a suitable price can be reached.

As mentioned the deal would be completely transparent, full documentation (receipts, warranty etc).
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: shagwit on June 14, 2012, 10:32:49 PM
I would be interested but I am currently in Canada and dont get back home to the UK till later in the year. How would it work to ship one to Canada? Thanks.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: wockawocka on June 15, 2012, 03:53:43 AM
You won't make any money on them but if you are silly enough to buy them then make sure you are physically in front of the goods before paying.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: PeterJ on June 15, 2012, 03:54:59 AM
I'm located in Australia but believe VAT is pretty similar to our GST, wouldn't most pro photographers be able to able claim back the VAT? Just thinking if you sell from Asian to the UK most of the potential buyers might not care about paying VAT, and I think the customs duty on most items like cameras is either zero or quite low. Either way if you make it clear they're responsible for local duties and taxes it leaves it up to them to work it out for themselves.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: expatinasia on June 15, 2012, 04:40:13 AM
You won't make any money on them but if you are silly enough to buy them then make sure you are physically in front of the goods before paying.

I do not understand your post. Can you kindly clarify?

Just so we are clear, this is a very large Authorised Canon dealer - with a lot of outlets - it is not some funny little shop somewhere.

And at £2,650 (my purchase price) how would I not make any money?

I'm located in Australia but believe VAT is pretty similar to our GST, wouldn't most pro photographers be able to able claim back the VAT? Just thinking if you sell from Asian to the UK most of the potential buyers might not care about paying VAT, and I think the customs duty on most items like cameras is either zero or quite low. Either way if you make it clear they're responsible for local duties and taxes it leaves it up to them to work it out for themselves.

I had not thought of that Peter. I am still trying to find out about the duty so passing that responsibilty to the buyer may be a good idea.

Anyway, my UK trip is confirmed so that won't change. And just to repeat, I have never done anything like this before. I have just been following the threads on the 5D Mark III, and 1D X very closely, then one day I thought I should check Canon's current flagship (at least it still is for the next few days) the 1D Mark IV and that is how I stumbled on this massive price discrepancy. It is so strange because I could literally walk 10 metres from one shop and into another company shop and pay £700 more for exactly the same camera. I would love to get the 1D X but as I can buy a 1D Mark IV for £2650 then it is very hard to justify. Let's not forget the 1D Mark IV is an amazing camera, and the technology is not that old.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: Astro on June 15, 2012, 05:24:50 AM
that reads like a typical recipe for disaster.. but hey sometimes you have luck .. so what do i know. :)
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: expatinasia on June 15, 2012, 05:49:24 AM
that reads like a typical recipe for disaster.. buy hey sometimes you have luck .. so what do i know. :)

Thanks, though I am curious as to why you think it reads like a recipe for disaster?

As our ex-pat friend will be making a personal import to the UK he will be responsible for paying VAT at the point of importation. When he comes to sell the gear he can only charge the buyer VAT if he (the seller) is VAT registered. If the seller is not VAT registered then the selling price cannot include VAT therefore no VAT for the buyer to reclaim. Even if they are buying it for business use, no VAT has been charged by the seller.

Thanks Guy. I have family in the UK that are still checking with customs and excise but you have at least clarified the VAT issue.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: Astro on June 15, 2012, 06:22:23 AM
because most of the time the guy who thought he will make an incredible good deal gets fuked. ;)

i have bought a laptop (one.. not ten) in the USA because mine broke while on vacation and i had all kind of troubles with the tax, returning to europe.

in the end it was an expensive buy.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: marekjoz on June 15, 2012, 06:54:25 AM
I'm located in Australia but believe VAT is pretty similar to our GST, wouldn't most pro photographers be able to able claim back the VAT? Just thinking if you sell from Asian to the UK most of the potential buyers might not care about paying VAT, and I think the customs duty on most items like cameras is either zero or quite low. Either way if you make it clear they're responsible for local duties and taxes it leaves it up to them to work it out for themselves.

As our ex-pat friend will be making a personal import to the UK he will be responsible for paying VAT at the point of importation. When he comes to sell the gear he can only charge the buyer VAT if he (the seller) is VAT registered. If the seller is not VAT registered then the selling price cannot include VAT therefore no VAT for the buyer to reclaim. Even if they are buying it for business use, no VAT has been charged by the seller.

Are you sure it works the way you described? If you go to restaurant and get the receipt stating "incl. VAT" it means they made a fraud? The difference is that VAT registered buyers can calculate the VAT cost in their costs if the purchased item can be used in buyer's business. But the price and the receipt contains VAT anyway. The seller doesn't care if he sells to the VAT registered or not registered buyer (from the point of view of the buyer). It's the buyer's business how he recalculates this purchase in his books.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: expatinasia on June 15, 2012, 08:55:28 AM
because most of the time the guy who thought he will make an incredible good deal gets fuked. ;)

i have bought a laptop (one.. not ten) in the USA because mine broke while on vacation and i had all kind of troubles with the tax, returning to europe.

in the end it was an expensive buy.

Not sure why you had problems with a laptop. I have bought numerous laptops in different countries than the one I lived in. Travellers these days, especially business travellers, are expected to have a laptop. There was even a time when I used to travel with two.

Anyway, I do not want to digress from the original topic. I just figured there may be someone in a similar situation as me, that would like a 1D Mark IV cheaper than they can get anywhere else (when there is stock that is). If I bring two, then I could sell two, one would be slightly used (but still only weeks old) the other would not even have been turned on. Or I could just bring one, do the work I need to do (around 1-3,000 pictures and then) sell that one.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: BobSanderson on June 15, 2012, 10:15:59 AM
They are definitely not stolen, I just think the shop in question has made a mistake with the price.


This part of the story is enough to stop me. What kind of reputable dealer with many outlets doesn't know how to price expensive merchandise and stays in business?
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: smithy on June 15, 2012, 03:58:42 PM
Just be prepared to not make as much money as you hoped.  You'll be (or should be) charged VAT 17.5% at the airport for your imports, and then any eBay fees - if you decide to try selling it this way.  You'll have to spend plenty of your own time getting them sold, answering questions, satisfying people's concerns about the authenticity of cameras imported from Asia.

And you need to remember that your target customers are highly likely to be pros with pre-orders for the 1DX...
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: TexPhoto on June 15, 2012, 06:53:07 PM
I just bought a nice low shutter count (6500) 1D Mark IV for $3200.  I think you might have trouble selling for more than $4000.  B&H is selling them for $5000, but you are not B&H.  You might do better than $4000, but enough to justify the effort/risk?  What is the $ value of your time?

He's an idea: Buy 1 and.... take photos with it.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: expatinasia on June 15, 2012, 08:16:40 PM
This part of the story is enough to stop me. What kind of reputable dealer with many outlets doesn't know how to price expensive merchandise and stays in business?

It has been in business for years, and it is profitable. If you want my opinion they are using the exchange rate that they bought them at to price them today. They are also in a market where perhaps they over purchased the 1D Mark IV because they are not the only reputable company that has them in stock. New and second hand.

I just bought a nice low shutter count (6500) 1D Mark IV for $3200.  I think you might have trouble selling for more than $4000.  B&H is selling them for $5000, but you are not B&H.  You might do better than $4000, but enough to justify the effort/risk?  What is the $ value of your time?

Thanks for your reply. As I mentioned previously, I am not looking to sell to the US, as I will be travelling to the UK for work, but most importantly from my research I discovered that they are much more expensive than in the US. I believe new they are around £ 3,600 or US$ 5,600 and nobody - or very few - have stock.

He's an idea: Buy 1 and.... take photos with it.

That's very clever, well done. Here's a sweet.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: bdunbar79 on June 15, 2012, 09:32:23 PM
I'm wondering if you lower the price slightly, they may go much quicker.  There is a market out there who wants a fast 1D body but don't want to go all the way to the 1D X.  In the U.S. right now, used are from $4000-$4500 and new $5000-$5100.  In UK I'm sure higher.  I think you can make a lot with the 1DX being priced where it is and how good the 1D Mark IV is.  Good luck to you.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: BobSanderson on June 15, 2012, 10:26:57 PM


It has been in business for years, and it is profitable. If you want my opinion they are using the exchange rate that they bought them at to price them today. They are also in a market where perhaps they over purchased the 1D Mark IV because they are not the only reputable company that has them in stock. New and second hand.

That sounds like a new story...

Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: expatinasia on June 15, 2012, 10:31:47 PM
I'm wondering if you lower the price slightly, they may go much quicker.  There is a market out there who wants a fast 1D body but don't want to go all the way to the 1D X.  In the U.S. right now, used are from $4000-$4500 and new $5000-$5100.  In UK I'm sure higher.  I think you can make a lot with the 1DX being priced where it is and how good the 1D Mark IV is.  Good luck to you.

Thanks, I appreciate your feedback.

I haven't actually said how much I am selling them for, I have only said exactly how much I am buying them for and the only reason for that is because I want complete transparency as I will be giving the person that buys one the receipt so they can get the full warranty without any difficulty.

I can understand the doubts of some but this is not my business, I just saw an opportunity. I will be in the UK to cover some pretty major events and will have at least one or two cameras with me. If I leave them in the UK when I return to Asia then fine, I can just get a new one if needed.

Another reason I prefer the UK (apart from the higher price I can sell them for) is I would very much prefer to hand deliver. Like I say, I want total transparency, I would prefer (if at all possible) the person with the money to see them, make sure they work, check the serial number with Canon (which I may be able to do before I even buy them) and be happy with it. I do not want any surprises. This is not going to be a regular busines venture as I am hardly ever in the UK anyway, but I do want the buyer to be 100% happy.

Then on the other hand, if I do not sell any, I don't care, I won't have lost anything apart from the potential for profit. Just seems a shame that I cannot share my good fortune of tumbling on these 1d Mark IVs with someone who might want one at a great price.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: TexPhoto on June 15, 2012, 11:34:04 PM
Thanks for your reply. As I mentioned previously, I am not looking to sell to the US, as I will be travelling to the UK for work, but most importantly from my research I discovered that they are much more expensive than in the US. I believe new they are around £ 3,600 or US$ 5,600 and nobody - or very few - have stock.

He's an idea: Buy 1 and.... take photos with it.

That's very clever, well done. Here's a sweet.

And thanks for your reply to me. 

$5000 in the U.S + 17.5% Vat = $5875, so at $5600, they are cheaper in the UK, unless you are evading taxes.  And that's what your asking here correct?  How to illegally avoid the taxes that will kill your profits?  You could hand carry two, and mail the boxes to yourself.  No VAT on empty boxes as far as I know.


Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: briansquibb on June 15, 2012, 11:38:01 PM
Thanks for your reply. As I mentioned previously, I am not looking to sell to the US, as I will be travelling to the UK for work, but most importantly from my research I discovered that they are much more expensive than in the US. I believe new they are around £ 3,600 or US$ 5,600 and nobody - or very few - have stock.

He's an idea: Buy 1 and.... take photos with it.

That's very clever, well done. Here's a sweet.

And thanks for your reply to me. 

$5000 in the U.S + 17.5% Vat = $5875, so at $5600, they are cheaper in the UK, unless you are evading taxes.  And that's what your asking here correct?  How to illegally avoid the taxes that will kill your profits?  You could hand carry two, and mail the boxes to yourself.  No VAT on empty boxes as far as I know.

Just for the record - VAT is 20%
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: expatinasia on June 16, 2012, 01:20:50 AM
$5000 in the U.S + 17.5% Vat = $5875, so at $5600, they are cheaper in the UK, unless you are evading taxes.  And that's what your asking here correct?  How to illegally avoid the taxes that will kill your profits?  You could hand carry two, and mail the boxes to yourself.  No VAT on empty boxes as far as I know.

Actually no. I do not want to carry the box, all the packaging etc., because to be frank it is far easier to carry a camera in a camera bag. Far less cumbersome, and I can carry it on board so I make sure someone does not throw it around.

As for taxes, I have family there checking with customs and excise. I do not want to do anything illegal. If I wanted to do that, I would have kept my mouth shut, given them to my brother in the UK, he sticks them on ebay or wherever, and nobody would be any the wiser.

Like I said before, I know there is very little, to no stock in the UK, and the prices there are about GBP 1,000 more than I can buy them for here so I thought I would give this community a heads up.

Once I have finished my work in the UK I will come back to where I now live, and maybe I will post the name of the shop, etc so whoever is interested can spend a fortune (and a couple of days) flying here and back to pick one up for him or herself.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: GuyF on June 16, 2012, 05:31:23 AM
Expat,

Didn't you know the road to hell is paved with good intentions?

Guy.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: smithy on June 16, 2012, 07:23:50 AM
Just for the record - VAT is 20%
Yikes you're right.  As of January 2011 it went from 17.5% to 20%.  I visited the UK last year and didn't even notice!  Most things are still cheap there though (well, compared with my country).
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: tt on June 16, 2012, 10:47:40 AM
Import Duty etc can be high. Might be worth asking some of the folks who bought via Digital Rev - it seems a steal, but they don't include Customs & Excise, VAT, handling charges etc.

The penalties for coming through customs not declaring could be high, wiping out any chance of profit (and flagging you on future trips). Also - for Canon - aren't the warranties region specific? I looked at Gibraltar import, but in the end the tax cost after declaring, and the issue of a non-Europe warranty ruled it out.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: nda on June 16, 2012, 11:53:28 AM
I just bought a nice low shutter count (6500) 1D Mark IV for $3200.  I think you might have trouble selling for more than $4000.  B&H is selling them for $5000, but you are not B&H.  You might do better than $4000, but enough to justify the effort/risk?  What is the $ value of your time?

He's an idea: Buy 1 and.... take photos with it.

I also just bought one (30000) shutter count cosmetically perfect for $3200, I don't think I would spend $4000+ especially now that the 1dx is to be shipped, I would expect a flood of used 1d4 on the used market!!!
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: Mr Simpleton on June 16, 2012, 01:39:04 PM
So if you want to do it legal :D 2600 plus VAT 20%= £3120 Do not think there are any duty on digital cameras. So question is: Can you make a fair profit with this?? I.e. selling for sa £3500??

I bet once the 1Dx start shipping you will see a drop in 1D4 prices... you better hurry up  ::)
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: kdsand on June 16, 2012, 03:13:40 PM
Selling two bodies with except able risk sounds reasonable ;) but 10 seems to risky  :'(- unless you were all ready experienced in these exchange.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: expatinasia on June 16, 2012, 10:10:22 PM
All good points. Thanks everyone.  :D
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: iaind on June 21, 2012, 04:45:18 PM
Current UK prices are £3479 new from Calumet 2yr warranty or £2999 refurbished from Canon Outlet on ebay
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: Bosman on June 28, 2012, 09:00:04 PM
I wouldn't touch that with a 10ft pole.
Title: Re: Advice on Selling 1D Mark IV (unusual situation)
Post by: kdsand on June 29, 2012, 06:40:50 PM
I wouldn't touch that with a 10ft pole.

I would touch just wouldn't buy!  ;D

Would hate to see someone loose their shirt on the deal.
Wonder how it turned out.