canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => PowerShot Cameras => Topic started by: Bennymiata on June 06, 2012, 03:45:07 AM

Title: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: Bennymiata on June 06, 2012, 03:45:07 AM
This is sure to drive down the price of the G1X.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/photography/hands-reviews/hands-review-sony-cyber-shot-dsc-rx100 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/photography/hands-reviews/hands-review-sony-cyber-shot-dsc-rx100)

Maybe I should have waited a while before i bought my G1X.
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: moreorless on June 06, 2012, 05:43:09 AM
Its launching at $650 with as sensor considerabley smaller than the G1X, not sure its going to have much impact on its price beyond the natural reduction you'd expect.
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: mws on June 06, 2012, 08:33:25 AM
I like the design, looks sexy. Thats bout it.
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: Jan on June 06, 2012, 08:51:35 AM
It'll rather be a S100 killer... depending on the real price of course...
I really like that the companies FINALLY come to larger sensors in small cameras. That's what I've been waiting for since 2006. No, wait, I decided to buy the 400D back then... ;)
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: Dylan777 on June 06, 2012, 09:04:54 AM

I like the chassis ;)
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: FunPhotons on June 06, 2012, 09:35:35 AM
The G series bodies are rather large and bulky, unlike the S100 which I can wear on my belt. So I believe this guy is a competitor to the S100.

However, as much as I like the idea of large sensor small cameras (and may be buying one), I'm not sure I get the point. They'll never be as good as the DSLR, and the DLSRs will never be as small and lightweight as a pocket cam.

I love my S100 for the small file size, good enough shots, GPS, quick and easy movies, metal body and ease of use. Would I pay twice as much for twice the sensor size? Not sure. 
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: crasher8 on June 06, 2012, 10:31:36 AM
+1 about it being an S100 killer except on price point.
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: distant.star on June 06, 2012, 11:21:25 AM
.
While this provides an alternative to the Canon S100, it's hardly an S100 "killer." And as for the G1X, I was in a Best Buy store last week and asked in the photo department to see a G1X -- they don't't even know what it is. Never heard of it. I think it has hardly any relevance to this Sony product.

As the dpreview piece points out, this is aimed at DSLR users who want/need a not-so-good alternative they can realistically put in a pocket. We in the Canon DSLR world have just that in the S95/S100 product line. I don't know the Nikon line well enough to know if they have such a product; if not, this may be aimed more at that segment.

The one real advance I see over the S100 is the memorized custom settings. You can set up to three sets of variables (just like on a better DSLR) and instantly recall for a particular shooting situation. I'd guess this will force Canon to provide that option in future S100 type products. I'd love to see that. Making changes through the menu system can be pretty tedious.

While dpreview had no RAW files the JPGs did not impress. That seems odd since I've seen and used Sonys and the image quality has always been good. Have to wait for the RAWS to really make any judgement about that.

Well, the train is coming. Off to make new images!
Title: Anything this pocketable ...
Post by: kapanak on June 06, 2012, 01:03:13 PM
If there is one advantage the RX100 has over any other large sensor compact, it is the size ...

(http://www.dpreview.com/previews/Sony-DSC-RX100/images/compared-smallcams-front.jpg)
(http://www.dpreview.com/previews/Sony-DSC-RX100/images/compared-smallcams-top.jpg)
(http://www.dpreview.com/previews/Sony-DSC-RX100/images/compared-largecams-front.jpg)
(http://www.dpreview.com/previews/Sony-DSC-RX100/images/compared-largecams-top.jpg)

And my personal favourite:

(http://asset3.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/06/04/rx100-pocket_1_610x458.jpg)

Just for the sake of portability, this is the camera I'd like to have on the side of my backpack or in my pocket wherever I go, where my upcoming 5DIII (sold my 5DII two months ago) or my current NEX-5N cannot go.

One other reason this appeals to me is the fact that I do not need to carry a lens cap.

On the other hand, the disappointing part about this camera is the lack of a "Smart Accessory Terminal", which is what Sony uses for their NEX accessory attachments, like the EVF and such.

I do not care for a hotshoe on a portable compact camera, what's the point ...
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: drjlo on June 06, 2012, 03:12:27 PM
Is cramming 20.9 MP into a 1" sensor a good idea?  The DPReview sample photos look very mediocre, especially the couple of indoor shots.


(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8027/7160700651_1cd90dc25e.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/drjlo1/7160700651/)
Sensor-Sizes (http://www.flickr.com/photos/drjlo1/7160700651/#) by drjlo1 (http://www.flickr.com/people/drjlo1/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: wickidwombat on June 06, 2012, 07:58:04 PM
I still think the fuji x10 kicks its ass

- fuji manual zoom ring >>>>>>>> poxy electronic zoom
- fuji optical VF
-  fuji f2-f2.8 on the zoom (28-112) >>>>>> f1.8 - f4.9 thats pretty awefull at the long end  (28-100)
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: kapanak on June 07, 2012, 12:11:01 AM
I still think the fuji x10 kicks its ass

- fuji manual zoom ring >>>>>>>> poxy electronic zoom
- fuji optical VF
-  fuji f2-f2.8 on the zoom (28-112) >>>>>> f1.8 - f4.9 thats pretty awefull at the long end  (28-100)

The optical viewfinder is not that great. There is no manual focus like the Sony RX100.

The Fuji X10 cannot fit in my jeans or pants pocket or even jacket pockets.

The Fuji X10 needs a lens cap to be carried with it ... easily lost.

The Fuji X10 is not made by Sony, does not use Sony sensors and does not have Zeiss glass.
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: Dylan777 on June 07, 2012, 02:12:49 AM
I'm willing to pay up to $1000 if Canon can apply APS-C sensor into current S100 chassis - zoom 24-70 or longer with aperture f2 or 2.8 through.  :o :o
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: wickidwombat on June 07, 2012, 02:51:23 AM
The Fuji X10 is not made by Sony, does not use Sony sensors and does not have Zeiss glass.

How is this a disadvantage? Are Sony and Zeiss a new fetish? Are they going to replace Leica and the red dot?
there is real Zeiss glass and then there are the P&S camera phone zeiss
I think the similarities end with the brand name
agreed i dont see it being a disadvantage you can add them to my previous listed advantages :P

also the fuji EXR sensor is pretty sweet I think with a year we will see fuji unleash a full frame one of these animals hopefully they will iron out the bugs though before they release, they have been dropping the ball a bit with releasing buggy not right gear. however they have been fixing it, new firmware for the x10 is great and mine is in now getting its new sensor to fix the white orb issue.

I wouldn't expect a FF EXR sensor fuji to be cheap though however its going to flat out wipe the floor with the over priced leica 35mm digitals
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: Flake on June 07, 2012, 02:57:03 AM
The G series bodies are rather large and bulky, unlike the S100 which I can wear on my belt. So I believe this guy is a competitor to the S100.

However, as much as I like the idea of large sensor small cameras (and may be buying one), I'm not sure I get the point. They'll never be as good as the DSLR, and the DLSRs will never be as small and lightweight as a pocket cam.

I love my S100 for the small file size, good enough shots, GPS, quick and easy movies, metal body and ease of use. Would I pay twice as much for twice the sensor size? Not sure.

I think you need to take a look at the images comming from the G1X because they're every bit as good as a DSLR.  In fact I hear people saying the images are better than the Nikon D700 & D3 with the 24 - 70mm f/2.8 and that's from two different sources.
Then there's the statement from Canon that their new compacts will have 'similar' image quality.
Large sensor compacts might not yet be as small as a true compact, but they're a fantastic development.  Take a look at the 'is the DSLR becomming an endagered species' thread to see what other people think, and some amazing images taken on mirrorless cameras.
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: alan_k on June 07, 2012, 06:46:26 PM
I don't know about lowering the price of the G1-X, but personally I'd trade-off sensor size for macro capability. Add the smaller size and manual focus (and the price difference), and I think this Sony has some serious upside.
The S100 already seems entrenched as the king of the quality P&S, so I'm not actually sure this will hurt it's sales so much. My feeling is that $500 is sort of a psychological barrier for gadgets like this, with the S100 sitting at the extreme end of the "normal" cameras and the X10, G1-X, etc sitting in "high end" territory.
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: Bennymiata on June 10, 2012, 03:44:01 AM
I think you're right Flake.
The images from my wife's G1X, especially the RAW images, are amazingly good, and at least as good, if not better, than similar images from my 60D with L lenses.
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: TheoBennett on June 10, 2012, 03:35:29 PM
This is sure to drive down the price of the G1X.

No. It is a different and inferior camera.
 
Sensor size matters, as does lens quality, chassis, and impulse frequency capture.
Pixels are less important, but relative.

Pixels have become part of marketing hyperbole and sales sleaze.  In truth, you'd need many
 more pixels than are available in the best digital camera to equal true graphic print media
art scans used with film and transparency.

Sensors sizes in all digiwhizz cameras have been inhibited because of production costs.
So far.

- th
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: moreorless on June 11, 2012, 12:49:27 PM
I do think that camera is interesting in that its the first larger sensor prenium compact to try and push megapixels rather than ISO since the G10.

Maybe its just my own interest shining though but I'd thought for awhile that the landscape market wasnt being well catered to by compacts, you only had cheap cameras with tiny sensors that were noisy even at base ISO and probabley diffraction limated anwyay.

I'm guessing this Sony will fall apart in IQ pretty quickly as you raise the ISO but perhaps its going to be able to produce a pretty clean 20mp file at base levels? I think its easy to see a market for that as a holiday camera from people wanting the ability to make larger prints.
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: briansquibb on June 11, 2012, 02:17:01 PM
I'm willing to pay up to $1000 if Canon can apply APS-C sensor into current S100 chassis - zoom 24-70 or longer with aperture f2 or 2.8 through.  :o :o

18mb APS-C in the S110 and G1X2 and the 1100D/650D. 22mp APS-H in the 70D/7D to pull them away from the entry level consumer kit
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: kapanak on June 16, 2012, 08:01:12 PM
I'm willing to pay up to $1000 if Canon can apply APS-C sensor into current S100 chassis - zoom 24-70 or longer with aperture f2 or 2.8 through.  :o :o

18mb APS-C in the S110 and G1X2 and the 1100D/650D. 22mp APS-H in the 70D/7D to pull them away from the entry level consumer kit

APS-C sized sensor inside the S100 package? I don't think that is happening for several years, if ever.

The 4/3 aspect ratio and dimensions of the G1X will stay the same, I assume, so probably not an APS-C sensor, not that it is very different in size ._.
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: sanj on June 17, 2012, 06:43:14 AM
I'm willing to pay up to $1000 if Canon can apply APS-C sensor into current S100 chassis - zoom 24-70 or longer with aperture f2 or 2.8 through.  :o :o

18mb APS-C in the S110 and G1X2 and the 1100D/650D. 22mp APS-H in the 70D/7D to pull them away from the entry level consumer kit

APS-C sized sensor inside the S100 package? I don't think that is happening for several years, if ever.

The 4/3 aspect ratio and dimensions of the G1X will stay the same, I assume, so probably not an APS-C sensor, not that it is very different in size ._.

It is bound to happen sooner or later... I would be delighted when it does happen..!
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: wellred on July 18, 2012, 04:24:03 AM
I'm willing to pay up to $1000 if Canon can apply APS-C sensor into current S100 chassis - zoom 24-70 or longer with aperture f2 or 2.8 through.  :o :o

Why don't you just go for a Sigma DP2 merrill or a NEX?

I hope Canon DON'T put in a bigger sensor as it will surely mean it's not pocket friendly ala S100. There are plenty of choices for m4/3, APSC sized sensors but there is not much choice for 1/7 sensors that fit in your pocket. There would then be a big gap in that portion of the market. The RX100 fits in the pocket in the pic above, but barely and even then I can't imagine with all the known Sony dusty lens issues that people are gong to spend that money on a pocket cam and keep it in their linty pockets case free.

Keep the sensor the same, add some new features and get rid of whatever caused the lens error issue and price it right - that's what Canon should do.

That aside does anyone know when an announcment might be likely?
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: Gman on July 18, 2012, 04:57:49 AM
I'd still rather wait for a new G14, 24 to 110 zoom 2.8f or less. same size sensor as in the G1X. Digic 5 processor. megapixels like in earlier iterations more is not necessarily better so around the 16Mp mark but with better resolution. Bump up the ISO by all means but keep everything else the same. The G11 and 12 are great little cameras with the retractible lens and swivel screens, the G1X is an ugly bug anyway too big, too heavy and the S100 is too small to have a serious size sensor in it.
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: briansquibb on July 18, 2012, 06:15:41 AM
Need to make up our mind on whether we are going for a small camera or a pocket camera.

A small camera has a lot more options, especially in terms of removable lens
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: wellred on July 18, 2012, 07:53:22 AM
Need to make up our mind on whether we are going for a small camera or a pocket camera.

A small camera has a lot more options, especially in terms of removable lens

Had a play with a G12 today. Mulling between that and a Panny GF3. I had a GF2 so am use to the menu system and it seems the more pocket friendly of the 2 but I'm going to give it to October to see if Canon announce an S100 successor.
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: Gman on July 18, 2012, 08:14:16 AM
If the G14 doesnt come out at Photokina, I might go for either the G12 or that nice looking Sony RX100 even though it's a bit pricey. I am going to look at the New Oly OMD EM5 micro 4/3rds tomorrow but unless you pop a pancake lens on it it's going to be too big anyway and the kit lens makes it much too big in comparison with a Gxx type. Makes it a bit pricey too.
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: crasher8 on July 18, 2012, 09:08:28 AM
With all this said, is the writing on the wall that it is NOT a good time to buy an S100?
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: K-amps on July 18, 2012, 09:59:14 AM
Conan the crippler sometimes ticks me off to no end.... this PS can do 1080p @ 60fps but the 5Diii with Digic 5+ cannot?

Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: And-Rew on July 18, 2012, 11:59:33 AM
As some one who bought a G1X and took it back because I found the image quality to be inferior to the 30D I used many moons ago - I think anything other than a G1X is a G1X killer! :o
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: MARKOE PHOTOE on July 18, 2012, 02:58:17 PM
Purchased the RX-100 from DigitalRev about two weeks ago and love this little jewel as compared to my previous S95 and S100 Canons.  Don't get me wrong, the S100 is still the best P&S camera out there with its feature set and ability to shoot RAW...maybe up until now.

The RX-100 is extremely fast with little shutter lag.  IQ is considerably better than the S100 in most regards. The ZEISS lens is incredibly sharp and provides great color renditions.   As a big fan of ZEISS lenses, this was that proverbial icing on the cake for me. (I have only recently started shooting with ZEISS ZE lenses for my Canon DSLR's) 

It DOES however take a little more time to boot up and shut down than the S100 and what you don't see here is that when you turn the camera on, the lens projects about 1-1/2" before you zoom.

Additionally, the RX100 doesn't connect with EYE-FI cards whereas the S100 has a menu item for these WIFI cards.  I typically use EYE-FI to automatically transfer images to my IPAD for ease of cataloging and emailing.

So, RX100 or S100?  For now, I'll be using the RX more often.  I'm confident the next generation S100 will out do the RX100.
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: Gman on July 23, 2012, 04:40:20 PM
So now the Canon EOS M has been shown to the public - not released till October, so where will a future Gxx fit into Canon's plan of things to come? Will this kill off the G1X and allow space for a new Gxx? Especially given that there has been a fair bit of negative stuff written about the G1X unless I am mistaken.

Clearly they wont put an APS C sensor in a future Gxx because of zoom lens size restrictions, so what about the same sensor used in the G1X? or a 4/3rds? I guess a digic 5 processor would have to be requisite. They will have to be careful not to cannibalise sales of either the G1X or the S100 or maybe they already have especially as the EOS M with better IQ and a pancake prime must be a competitor?

Will the next Gxx just be an upgraded G12 called G12a or a G12-2 and not something completely new? How about an EOS mini with swivel screen, smaller sensor, digic 5 processor and retracting zoom lens? Or will we see a hybrid?

Finally, why dont we refer to the G12 as mirrorless?

Any thoughts on this folks?   
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on July 23, 2012, 04:53:09 PM
So now the Canon EOS M has been shown to the public - not released till October, so where will a future Gxx fit into Canon's plan of things to come? Will this kill off the G1X and allow space for a new Gxx? Especially given that there has been a fair bit of negative stuff written about the G1X unless I am mistaken.

Clearly they wont put an APS C sensor in a future Gxx because of zoom lens size restrictions, so what about the same sensor used in the G1X? or a 4/3rds? I guess a digic 5 processor would have to be requisite. They will have to be careful not to cannibalise sales of either the G1X or the S100 or maybe they already have especially as the EOS M with better IQ and a pancake prime must be a competitor?

Will the next Gxx just be an upgraded G12 called G12a or a G12-2 and not something completely new? How about an EOS mini with swivel screen, smaller sensor, digic 5 processor and retracting zoom lens? Or will we see a hybrid?

Finally, why dont we refer to the G12 as mirrorless?

Any thoughts on this folks?
If the Amazon sales rankings are correct, sales of the G1X seem to be going well, but expect prices to drop, as the economy tanks.
Most people define a mirrorless as a camera with interchangable lenses and no reflex mirror.  The G1X and RS100 are not mirrorless, so they come under point and shoot.
I'd like to try both of them and see which fits in my large hands best.  I might still consider the Canon "M", since FD adapters will soon be available as well as adapters for nikon, OM, M42, Pentax, Minolta, etc.  Almost every old Fukk manual SLR lens can be adapted.
Title: Re: Is this a G1X killer?
Post by: Gman on July 25, 2012, 09:27:15 AM
I'd expect the price of the G1X to drop anyway as the EOS M with it's larger sensor and better specs is now a serious competitor. Given the choice between to two at the moment (if it were available) I'd go for the EOS M even though it's a bit more expensive. Just a pity it doesn't have the folding screen.