canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on June 06, 2012, 11:34:53 AM

Title: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Canon Rumors on June 06, 2012, 11:34:53 AM
The Big Megapixel Camera
According to Northlight, they’ve been told a new full frame camera in a “1D” form factor is being tested in Asia.

We have heard similar things in the last few weeks, unfortunately without any sort of specifications or features of the camera(s). I am told, that they are not the 1D X or the 1D C.

We’ve had from two separate places that a large megapixel camera is on the horizon. It was said that such a product could come “sooner than you’d think”.

cr

Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Dylan777 on June 06, 2012, 11:39:40 AM
40MP +..... :P :P :P
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: chabotc on June 06, 2012, 11:42:21 AM
'Sooner then you think', 'but then we'll take a year before making it available'

Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: sphax on June 06, 2012, 11:44:00 AM
Everyone sees the body buuuuut ... 40mm F/1.2L ????
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Astro on June 06, 2012, 11:51:13 AM
i hope it´s a competition for the D800.... not some other overprized thing.

i am not interested in a 10000$ ultra 1D X.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Pompo on June 06, 2012, 11:54:41 AM
Canon is officially gasping for air and flipping out ! First there is no high res box , "we have merged the 1d and 1ds series to the 1dx"....then the d800 came along lol!! I wish I never bought this freaking 5D Mark III now,
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: HurtinMinorKey on June 06, 2012, 12:01:57 PM
i hope it´s a competition for the D800.... not some other overprized thing.

i am not interested in a 10000$ ultra 1D X.

If its the 3D, then the naming alone suggests that it will be priced between the 5d3 and the D1X. 
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: RLPhoto on June 06, 2012, 12:04:44 PM
YEAH! This is what i've been saving my dough for.

I'd get it if its 3999$
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: alexsolaat on June 06, 2012, 12:05:01 PM
I just observed the lens in front of the EOS 3D manipulated photo.
40mm f/1,2L ?!?
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Astro on June 06, 2012, 12:06:46 PM
If its the 3D, then the naming alone suggests that it will be priced between the 5d3 and the D1X.

from the rumored specs it sounds more like an "über 1D X".

1D like body, same AF as 1D X, 4k video, 30+ mp, 6 FPS......
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Astro on June 06, 2012, 12:08:27 PM
I just observed the lens in front of the EOS 3D manipulated photo.
40mm f/1,2L ?!?

you said it yourself.. manipulated photo.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: photoxication on June 06, 2012, 12:12:48 PM
Can't WAIT for the dynamic range debates on dpreview when this baby comes out and get's DXO Marked.   :P
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Neeneko on June 06, 2012, 12:26:13 PM
Everyone sees the body buuuuut ... 40mm F/1.2L ????

Just a couple nights ago I was looking around to see how many sub-50mm f/1.2 lenses were floating around.  a 40mm one would be a very nice addition ^_^, though the L makes me sad.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: x-vision on June 06, 2012, 12:26:31 PM
Aah, it seems to me that somebody has been daydreaming again ;).

So, Canon is going to compete with the $3K D800 ... with a $10K camera.

I wonder how this is going to work ???.
The D800 plus the trinity of Nikon f/1.4G primes (24, 35, and 85) will come cheaper than $10K.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: lol on June 06, 2012, 12:26:57 PM
I really hope the high MP full frame camera wont be in a 1D style body (and price). Stuff it in a 5D body and price and I'll buy one tomorrow.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Ricku on June 06, 2012, 12:39:54 PM
Can't WAIT for the dynamic range debates on dpreview when this baby comes out and get's DXO Marked.   :P
There wouldn't be a debate if Canon actually does something to improve the dynamic range.

But as long as Canon fail to improve their sensor technology for higher DR, there will be complainers, and there will be fanboys attacking the complainers. :P

I myself am a complainer. I can't really say that I am happy about Nikon's long lasting dominance in the DR department.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Haydn1971 on June 06, 2012, 12:43:42 PM
Testing a new sensor in a 1Dx body doesn't necessarily mean that the final product would be 1Dx sized.  It might just have a tad more space inside to bodge together a working prototype, with larger pre production test chips and circuits.

My money is still on a cheap cripled FF 9D sitting at the same price as a 7D, with a studio big Mpx 1D version...  I.e. evolve the 1D range from 2 previous models to 3 new models to suit each niche...  Again, I wouldn't be suprised at a mega APS-C 1D model in the near future either.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: TW on June 06, 2012, 12:53:43 PM
Although the rumors (and of course they are just rumors at this point) say the testbed body is 1D-style, I'd guess any production 3D model will be a souped-up, fully weather-sealed version of the 5D Mkiii body. (Maybe even with eye-control again!)

If you're going to give credence to this rumor, you might also give credence to the thought that Canon might use an existing body to test new internals, such as a new sensor and new electronics. Also, the larger body gives more room inside to rig stuff up and test without having to wait on the body to be ready to go. And there is a "camouflage factor" also.

Of course, it could be they've changed their minds, and decided to bring out a 1Ds V.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: SuperCrazySamurai on June 06, 2012, 01:08:51 PM
Canon is officially gasping for air and flipping out ! First there is no high res box , "we have merged the 1d and 1ds series to the 1dx"....then the d800 came along lol!! I wish I never bought this freaking 5D Mark III now,

LOL! I remember the day when hi-res was 12MP with the launch of the 1DS :) I really don't think canon is flipping out ATM.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on June 06, 2012, 01:15:49 PM
'Sooner then you think', 'but then we'll take a year before making it available'

I guess "sooner than you think" in fact means that Canon has found yet another new way to release a high-price product -  sooner than people would have feared after the 1dx and 5d3. This would leave Nikon to care for folks in the below $2000 segment...
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: lola on June 06, 2012, 01:24:23 PM
I doubt Canon has the technology to compete with the current Sony sensors. If they did, they would most certainly use it building the sensor in 5D3.

This mystery camera is just an act of desperation... It will probably be a 5D3 in a 1D body with 40 megapixels and a $5000 price tag. Nothing to be excited about...
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: ruuneos on June 06, 2012, 01:30:18 PM
3D sounds horrible to my ear  ::) I would like to see 2D, fits nicely to Canon's formula:
 - Better than 5D but "bit rougher" than 1D.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on June 06, 2012, 01:36:24 PM
I doubt Canon has the technology to compete with the current Sony sensors. If they did, they would most certainly use it building the sensor in 5D3.

The 3d may even have an unintended side effect, because it invalidates Canon's and enthusiast's "22mp is enough, anybody saying something else is a Nikon troll" argumentation.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: x-vision on June 06, 2012, 01:38:32 PM
I guess "sooner than you think" in fact means that Canon has found yet another new way to release a high-price product -  sooner than people would have feared after the 1dx and 5d3.

LOL ;).

Quote
This would leave Nikon to care for folks in the below $2000 segment...

Which is where the majority of buyers are, of course.

I was just thinking the other day:
The market leader in any industry is never the one with the premium pricing.
With its recent pricing policy, Canon is obviously trying to become a premium vendor.
So, have they decided to lose their market leadership position ???.

Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Daniel Flather on June 06, 2012, 01:39:29 PM
Everyone sees the body buuuuut ... 40mm F/1.2L ????

CR has been used that image many times on the site before.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: jaduffy007 on June 06, 2012, 01:43:57 PM
Can't WAIT for the dynamic range debates on dpreview when this baby comes out and get's DXO Marked.   :P

Me too!  I'm getting stocked up on popcorn.  This Canon high MP, high DR camera gets released, SUDDENLY in contrast to comments on D800,  those attributes will become not only valid but essential and drool worthy.  Hopefully DXO Mark will rate the camera higher than the D800, then SUDDENLY, DXO Mark will become the most trusted review site on the planet vs the worst since placing the D800 above the 5d3.  "Some people"....  :o ::) :-X >:(
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: jaduffy007 on June 06, 2012, 01:49:44 PM
YEAH! This is what i've been saving my dough for.

I'd get it if its 3999$


At $4k , how does Canon differentiate it from the 5d3? Maybe 5d3 goes to where it should be...$2500?  Otherwise, it's more likely to be closer to $5k.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: jaduffy007 on June 06, 2012, 01:57:51 PM
I guess "sooner than you think" in fact means that Canon has found yet another new way to release a high-price product -  sooner than people would have feared after the 1dx and 5d3.

LOL ;).

Quote
This would leave Nikon to care for folks in the below $2000 segment...

Which is where the majority of buyers are, of course.

I was just thinking the other day:
The market leader in any industry is never the one with the premium pricing.
With its recent pricing policy, Canon is obviously trying to become a premium vendor.
So, have they decided to lose their market leadership position ???.

Ok, then Canon needs to come out with "premium" products!  5d3 doesn't bode well.  Putting a premium price ($3500) on a less than premium sensor doesn't "work".
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on June 06, 2012, 02:11:20 PM
With its recent pricing policy, Canon is obviously trying to become a premium vendor.

If they go premium I guess they'll come up with a marketing strategy to differentiate their pro bodies from joe sixpack 7d and below user - if not gold plating, maybe a completely red camera body, or at least a red stripe that can be recognized from afar :-p ?
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: lola on June 06, 2012, 02:12:08 PM
At $4k , how does Canon differentiate it from the 5d3? Maybe 5d3 goes to where it should be...$2500?  Otherwise, it's more likely to be closer to $5k.

Pulling the price of 5D3 to somewhere around $2500 would be kidding with the people who just bought it. I don't see it happening. Don't forget to take into account the prices of the newly released lenses...
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Pompo on June 06, 2012, 02:25:06 PM
Canon is officially gasping for air and flipping out ! First there is no high res box , "we have merged the 1d and 1ds series to the 1dx"....then the d800 came along lol!! I wish I never bought this freaking 5D Mark III now,

LOL! I remember the day when hi-res was 12MP with the launch of the 1DS :) I really don't think canon is flipping out ATM.

according to them the 18 mpix was it...til the d800 came out that is....I wish we knew what Canon roadmap was tho!
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: TrumpetPower! on June 06, 2012, 02:29:06 PM
I may be worng, but I really think that we're quite close to the point of diminishing returns for resolution for the 135 format. I mean, hell, we're already getting great 24" x 36" prints out of it, and shockingly good prints at the full width of an iPF8100. The latest batch not only outperform medium format film from back in the day, they're on a par with large format from not that long ago, and put a lot of Ansel Adams's work to shame.

In the online examples I've seen, you'd need to stick your nose against a door-sized print to tell the difference between the D800 and the 5DIII. The 5DIII images upscale nicely to the D800's native resolution, with less noise and almost as much detail.

Sure, we've got 20 megapickle digicams and could, in theory, scale those up to full frame...but we also know that those 20 megapickle digicams look like crap.

I'll make a prediction: there'll never be a pro-level DSLR 135-format with more than about 60 megapickles, and all it'll get you is a 30" x 40" print that compares well with a 24" x 36" print from a 5DIII or D800. The megapickle count will keep inching towards something in that range, but much more slowly...and, instead, manufacturers will put their improvements into actual camera features like Canon did with the 5DIII.

Damned few photographers need or can use even the full resolution of today's 135-format cameras, and those few who need even more have long since switched to medium format.

Cheers,

b&
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Bombsight on June 06, 2012, 02:34:07 PM
"Our Flagship model 1DX".

If its Canons "Flagship", then why is Canon adding more megapixels?

Shouldn't a "Flagship" cover all aspects if possible??

I thought the 1 series covered all aspects of photography as much as possible with the technology at hand?

They havent even delivered on their 1DX promise and already, there seems to be something better for landscape photographers?  >:(
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: jaduffy007 on June 06, 2012, 02:47:43 PM
I may be worng, but I really think that we're quite close to the point of diminishing returns for resolution for the 135 format. I mean, hell, we're already getting great 24" x 36" prints out of it, and shockingly good prints at the full width of an iPF8100. The latest batch not only outperform medium format film from back in the day, they're on a par with large format from not that long ago, and put a lot of Ansel Adams's work to shame.

In the online examples I've seen, you'd need to stick your nose against a door-sized print to tell the difference between the D800 and the 5DIII. The 5DIII images upscale nicely to the D800's native resolution, with less noise and almost as much detail.

Sure, we've got 20 megapickle digicams and could, in theory, scale those up to full frame...but we also know that those 20 megapickle digicams look like crap.

I'll make a prediction: there'll never be a pro-level DSLR 135-format with more than about 60 megapickles, and all it'll get you is a 30" x 40" print that compares well with a 24" x 36" print from a 5DIII or D800. The megapickle count will keep inching towards something in that range, but much more slowly...and, instead, manufacturers will put their improvements into actual camera features like Canon did with the 5DIII.

Damned few photographers need or can use even the full resolution of today's 135-format cameras, and those few who need even more have long since switched to medium format.

Cheers,

b&

I would turn your point on its head.  With the D800 and this rumored Canon cam, we 're getting (almost) medium format digital IQ  for a fraction of the cost.  That's a very worthy endeavor and to be celebrated!  I think Canon users will stop marginalizing the breakthrough the D800 is, once they have a camera that is its equal or even better.

Lastly, the 5d3 cannot be upscaled to match the D800 with less noise or equal detail.  I've done the tests with precisely what you suggested, 24x36 prints.  I'm not suggesting it's "night and day", but the difference is easily perceived, no loop required  :)

Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Jason Beiko on June 06, 2012, 03:09:04 PM
If I was Canon I would be making an semi-official announcement about a possible D800 equivalent.  Why?  it might keep people from switching, if they believe a D800 equivalent is coming.  The reviews of the D800 are so positive WRT studio and landscape use that I know many of us are tempted. 

I'm waiting for two reasons: one, I already have several Canon lenses and equipment and two, if I purchase a Nikon it will be the "e" version which is very difficult to find at the moment. 






Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: jaduffy007 on June 06, 2012, 03:19:46 PM
If I was Canon I would be making an semi-official announcement about a possible D800 equivalent.  Why?  it might keep people from switching, if they believe a D800 equivalent is coming.  The reviews of the D800 are so positive WRT studio and landscape use that I know many of us are tempted. 

I'm waiting for two reasons: one, I already have several Canon lenses and equipment and two, if I purchase a Nikon it will be the "e" version which is very difficult to find at the moment.

Obviously it's possible this rumor is a controlled leak.  Who knows.   Yet, I think there's little doubt there is significantly more demand for the D800 models versus the 5d3.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Tayvin on June 06, 2012, 03:24:23 PM
Assuming this rumor is true, I'd think Canon would still wait a couple of years before releasing it.  Everyone that would buy a camera like this just bought a D800/e or Canon 5D III; and if you're a professional you purchased two or three of them.  It will be at least three years before I consider purchasing another camera.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: zim on June 06, 2012, 03:26:04 PM
Naaa….. not buying into the high MP, high DR camera scenario. High MP yes but I don’t believe Canon will or can come out with a higher DR sensor anytime soon. So what’s left is a high MP version of the 5D3 maybe with or without low pass filter option but I doubt that also, I think Canon are looking at heavy software development to get them out of this one. Existing 5d3 owners won’t be unhappy.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Ricku on June 06, 2012, 03:52:25 PM
..but I don’t believe Canon will or can come out with a higher DR sensor anytime soon.
+1 same here.

This is why Canon should buy and use Exmor sensors from Sony, just until they figure out how to improve their own sensor tech.

Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: V8Beast on June 06, 2012, 03:56:45 PM
Canon is officially gasping for air and flipping out ! First there is no high res box , "we have merged the 1d and 1ds series to the 1dx"....then the d800 came along lol!! I wish I never bought this freaking 5D Mark III now,

Just sell it and get most your money back, then. Problem solved :)

Seriously, though, a 40-plus megapixel body has been a common rumor for a very long time as a replacement to the 1Ds3. Other rumors suggested the high-megapixel 1Ds3 replacement would take a gripless form factor.
It's when the 1Dx was announced at 18 megapixels that all the talk of a high-mp body suddenly went away. No one expected lower resolution at the time.

IMHO, the 1Dx is clearly more of a 1D5 than a 1Ds4, so Canon would be very short-sighted to concede the high-res studio/landscape market to the competition.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: preppyak on June 06, 2012, 04:16:39 PM
Yet, I think there's little doubt there is significantly more demand for the D800 models versus the 5d3.
I see this posted a lot, and yet I've never seen anything confirming it. I've seen posts that retailers are saying they are selling 10:1 on the 5dIII v D800, and vice versa. I think both nailed their target audiences well, its just a matter of which audience is bigger (studio/landscape v wedding/street/event)

That said, it'd be cool to see a high MP camera from Canon in case I ever want to rent one. Likewise, I'd really like to see what a lower MP D800 would be like. If the sensor is that great at high MP, maybe it could do some magical things for low-light at 20-22MP
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: DJL329 on June 06, 2012, 05:06:38 PM
If I was Canon I would be making an semi-official announcement about a possible D800 equivalent.  Why?  it might keep people from switching, if they believe a D800 equivalent is coming.  The reviews of the D800 are so positive WRT studio and landscape use that I know many of us are tempted. 

I'm waiting for two reasons: one, I already have several Canon lenses and equipment and two, if I purchase a Nikon it will be the "e" version which is very difficult to find at the moment.

Obviously it's possible this rumor is a controlled leak.  Who knows.   Yet, I think there's little doubt there is significantly more demand for the D800 models versus the 5d3.

Besides, if they did make a "semi-official" announcement, it would likely hurt sales of the 5D3.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: moreorless on June 06, 2012, 05:59:01 PM
Canon is officially gasping for air and flipping out ! First there is no high res box , "we have merged the 1d and 1ds series to the 1dx"....then the d800 came along lol!! I wish I never bought this freaking 5D Mark III now,

Alot of it is I'd say product hype, Canon are not going to hilight the potential short comings of a new product afterall by talking up future releases months before they happen.

Any reaction from Canon to the D800 would most likely have happened a year ago or longer when specs started to leak.

Quote from: Bombsight
"Our Flagship model 1DX".

If its Canons "Flagship", then why is Canon adding more megapixels?

Shouldn't a "Flagship" cover all aspects if possible??

I thought the 1 series covered all aspects of photography as much as possible with the technology at hand?

They havent even delivered on their 1DX promise and already, there seems to be something better for landscape photographers? 

Well the D800 far outperforms the D4 as a landscape camera yet the latter is considered to be Nikons flagship.

Both Canon and Nikons products are afterall goverened as much by the prospective market as they are technical advances and if they believe the sports/jurno market has more money to spend than anyoen else on a FF camera they'll put out a higher end body targetting that market.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: wickidwombat on June 06, 2012, 06:51:13 PM
I really hope the high MP full frame camera wont be in a 1D style body (and price). Stuff it in a 5D body and price and I'll buy one tomorrow.

ditto, i'm happy with my 5Dmk3 anyway it suits what i do
and with hassleblad dropping prices recently a $10,000 high mp canon doesnt seem like value to me
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Deeohuu on June 06, 2012, 08:41:00 PM
Assuming this rumor is true, I'd think Canon would still wait a couple of years before releasing it.  Everyone that would buy a camera like this just bought a D800/e or Canon 5D III; and if you're a professional you purchased two or three of them.  It will be at least three years before I consider purchasing another camera.

Everyone?? I see a lot of 5D II owners like myself that are not pushed to go to a 5DIII at all. And put off by the pain of starting a Nikon lenses collection. 5K for a camera along these lines would cost the same as a D800 and a 14-24mm lens and I'd be back to using my Canon 14mm L, 17mm TSE L, 24mm TSE L, and 24mm 1.4 L for architecture and landscape. Sign me up!
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: pwp on June 06, 2012, 09:00:10 PM
I'd get it if its 3999$
At $4k , how does Canon differentiate it from the 5d3? Maybe 5d3 goes to where it should be...$2500?  Otherwise, it's more likely to be closer to $5k.

Perhaps this will be the point that Canon eases pricing on the 5D3 down towards 5D2 levels, thus enabling Canon to comfortably pitch the new camera into the $4k - $5k price-point. I doubt it will be a 1-Series camera. For a start it would need to price itself so far out from the competition it would be a very low volume seller, and secondly, if it's a 40+Mp camera it's target market is not going to need the ultra high performance criteria of the 1DX. It will be used for more considered work. I see the target market as the same one that bought into the original 5D Classic.

PW
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: FunPhotons on June 06, 2012, 10:29:40 PM
Assuming this rumor is true, I'd think Canon would still wait a couple of years before releasing it.  Everyone that would buy a camera like this just bought a D800/e or Canon 5D III; and if you're a professional you purchased two or three of them.  It will be at least three years before I consider purchasing another camera.

Everyone?? I see a lot of 5D II owners like myself that are not pushed to go to a 5DIII at all. And put off by the pain of starting a Nikon lenses collection. 5K for a camera along these lines would cost the same as a D800 and a 14-24mm lens and I'd be back to using my Canon 14mm L, 17mm TSE L, 24mm TSE L, and 24mm 1.4 L for architecture and landscape. Sign me up!

Agreed. I wouldn't mind upgrading my 5DMKII (and keeping the 5D), I'd especially appreciate a 1 series body. The 5DMKIII and 1DX leave me cold though as I don't do any sports or wedding photography. As usual there is a lots of talk about how we don't need more pixels. So what? I could use a new body, and I want new features. Give me the new AF system, more pixels and a 1D body, I'd buy it in a second. In exchange I'll throw away FPS and possibly ISO.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: wickidwombat on June 06, 2012, 10:40:30 PM
if they were smart they would make the same guts available in the 1Dx shell and the 5D3 shell
shouldnt cost any more in reality and would make it appeal to a broader spectrum of users
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: mjbehnke on June 06, 2012, 10:45:14 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing a high megapixel FF camera without Video. Make it a straight photo camera and get rid of all the video stuff. I don't use video and would not be turned off by a nice high end FF that doesn't have it. Just my Humble opinion.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: pwp on June 06, 2012, 11:05:51 PM
if they were smart they would make the same guts available in the 1Dx shell and the 5D3 shell
shouldn't cost any more in reality and would make it appeal to a broader spectrum of users

You've nailed it again! I want a camera with GUTS! Sign me up.

PW
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Deeohuu on June 07, 2012, 12:19:38 AM
Assuming this rumor is true, I'd think Canon would still wait a couple of years before releasing it.  Everyone that would buy a camera like this just bought a D800/e or Canon 5D III; and if you're a professional you purchased two or three of them.  It will be at least three years before I consider purchasing another camera.

Everyone?? I see a lot of 5D II owners like myself that are not pushed to go to a 5DIII at all. And put off by the pain of starting a Nikon lenses collection. 5K for a camera along these lines would cost the same as a D800 and a 14-24mm lens and I'd be back to using my Canon 14mm L, 17mm TSE L, 24mm TSE L, and 24mm 1.4 L for architecture and landscape. Sign me up!

There are a few possible approaches to take.

1) Recognise that actually owning camera equipment is not very worthwhile unless it is making you money and/or you're using it regularly and then when you need it, rent/hire whatever happens to be the latest/best.

1a) Start up a Nikon lens collection, whilst keeping your Canon lens collection and just rent whatever body happens to be the latest/best/to your liking.

2) Build up an array of Nikon lenses, along with a D800 whilst keeping the Canon gear. Treat the bodies as something that can be sold/traded/whatever. Then you simply sell your older body and buy the new one whenever one manufacturer makes a big leap over the other.

Thank you, there are yet more...

(by the way, 1 is a non sequitur - whether anything is worthwhile or not is a subjective judgement that does not necessarily lead exclusively to the conclusion you offer) For example, my 1932 Leica sits on the shelf and looks beautiful but makes no money and is rarely used. Yet I find it very worthwhile.

3) live with my 5D II and my excellent collection of Canon lenses, don't be a part of the consumerist imperative and thus contribute to both corporations' bottom line,  and wait for a camera that gives me improved results with the lenses I have. I am making money with the 5D II and can stick with it unless Canon provides something that will give me better results. Withholding my capital until then is the best strategy from my point of view.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: briansquibb on June 07, 2012, 12:38:50 AM
Assuming this rumor is true, I'd think Canon would still wait a couple of years before releasing it.  Everyone that would buy a camera like this just bought a D800/e or Canon 5D III; and if you're a professional you purchased two or three of them.  It will be at least three years before I consider purchasing another camera.

Everyone?? I see a lot of 5D II owners like myself that are not pushed to go to a 5DIII at all. And put off by the pain of starting a Nikon lenses collection. 5K for a camera along these lines would cost the same as a D800 and a 14-24mm lens and I'd be back to using my Canon 14mm L, 17mm TSE L, 24mm TSE L, and 24mm 1.4 L for architecture and landscape. Sign me up!

There are a few possible approaches to take.

1) Recognise that actually owning camera equipment is not very worthwhile unless it is making you money and/or you're using it regularly and then when you need it, rent/hire whatever happens to be the latest/best.

1a) Start up a Nikon lens collection, whilst keeping your Canon lens collection and just rent whatever body happens to be the latest/best/to your liking.

2) Build up an array of Nikon lenses, along with a D800 whilst keeping the Canon gear. Treat the bodies as something that can be sold/traded/whatever. Then you simply sell your older body and buy the new one whenever one manufacturer makes a big leap over the other.

Thank you, there are yet more...

(by the way, 1 is a non sequitur - whether anything is worthwhile or not is a subjective judgement that does not necessarily lead exclusively to the conclusion you offer) For example, my 1932 Leica sits on the shelf and looks beautiful but makes no money and is rarely used. Yet I find it very worthwhile.

3) live with my 5D II and my excellent collection of Canon lenses, don't be a part of the consumerist imperative and thus contribute to both corporations' bottom line,  and wait for a camera that gives me improved results with the lenses I have. I am making money with the 5D II and can stick with it unless Canon provides something that will give me better results. Withholding my capital until then is the best strategy from my point of view.

also 1 assumes that photography is seen as a profession rather than a hobby

a generalised version of 3 might be that some owners sit on their hands and wallets until they are convinced that it is a good time to upgrade. These are the people that are the late users who wait until the technology is proven and the bugs have been sorted.

A good example of this from the Canon world might be the flash issues on the 5DIII where the 3rd party triggers dont work with HSS, or going back in time - the 1D3 AF problem
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: pwp on June 07, 2012, 01:10:31 AM
OMG how convoluted do you have to get?  Let's simplify this. He's just saying if you're in business you need to to make smart, informed purchase decisions. If you're not getting a viable ROI on any equipment purchase, then maybe it was not a smart purchase.

An enthusiast/collector with a 1932 Leica derives a different, yet tangible value from an apparently worthwhile purchase. They're both valid viewpoints.

PW
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: briansquibb on June 07, 2012, 01:17:29 AM
OMG how convoluted do you have to get?  Let's simplify this. He's just saying if you're in business you need to to make smart, informed purchase decisions. If you're not getting a viable ROI on any equipment purchase, then maybe it was not a smart purchase.

An enthusiast/collector with a 1932 Leica derives a different, yet tangible value from an apparently worthwhile purchase. They're both valid viewpoints.

PW

How do you measure ROI on a lens? or even a backup body?
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: pwp on June 07, 2012, 01:30:11 AM
Business management experience. Innate honest knowing. A clear head. Some things are not precisely measurable. You simply know.

PW
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: briansquibb on June 07, 2012, 01:33:20 AM
Business management experience. Innate honest knowing. A clear head. Some things are not precisely measurable. You simply know.

PW

I have only been able to work off the bottom line with hard and reliable numbers
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: pwp on June 07, 2012, 01:43:28 AM
Business management experience. Innate honest knowing. A clear head. Some things are not precisely measurable. You simply know.
PW
I have only been able to work off the bottom line with hard and reliable numbers

Well good. You get the last word.

PW
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Deeohuu on June 07, 2012, 01:46:11 AM
OMG how convoluted do you have to get?  Let's simplify this. He's just saying if you're in business you need to to make smart, informed purchase decisions. If you're not getting a viable ROI on any equipment purchase, then maybe it was not a smart purchase.

An enthusiast/collector with a 1932 Leica derives a different, yet tangible value from an apparently worthwhile purchase. They're both valid viewpoints.

PW

Except that he didn't say "if you are in business".  Agreed that if you are in business you need to make smart decisions to stay in business but I don't believe the choices he gave are even the smartest for the majority of "pros".  It could argued that the wisest business move would be to stick with the 5D classic if it delivers what you need for your particular product niche. Why squander your profit on unnecessary technology? I think someone should write a paper on the whole misuse and erroneous presumptions about "pro" behaviour and the cult of pro expertise. Not only in the camera world but in all crafts. It was not long ago that pros were only those who belonged to self-governing trades such as law and medicine. Who needs a photo license to operate? Now the guy washing dishes in the back of the cafeteria is a 'professional' food service technician. There are as many pro hacks as untalented amateurs and many amateurs that produce images with the same quality as the "pros".  The average "pro" does not make an income that makes switching from other work attractive to many people and lord knows the effort to generate sales does not add to the lure. If camera companies only depended on pros for their bottom line they would be out of business.

It was the original post was not convoluted at all. The point was simple -  that there are more people holding back from the 5D III than any Canon I can remember and they are a good potential market for the rumoured camera that is the topic of this thread. That did not require any comments on possible non-economic ways of acquiring two brands.

Anyway, its a social forum, if we all simplified things to strict logic and and avoided diversions there would be no point in commenting on rumours like this hypothetical body at all and even less holiday from the drudgery of every day life which is what people are mostly doing here. If you don't like the convolution you are certainly welcome to complain just as others delight in adding to it.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: briansquibb on June 07, 2012, 01:46:25 AM
Business management experience. Innate honest knowing. A clear head. Some things are not precisely measurable. You simply know.
PW
I have only been able to work off the bottom line with hard and reliable numbers

Well good. You get the last word.

PW
??? ??? ???
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: wickidwombat on June 07, 2012, 01:48:00 AM
keep going guys im nearly there...

http://bullshitbingo.net/cards/bullshit/ (http://bullshitbingo.net/cards/bullshit/)

 :D
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: lola on June 07, 2012, 01:49:04 AM
"Our Flagship model 1DX".

If its Canons "Flagship", then why is Canon adding more megapixels?

Shouldn't a "Flagship" cover all aspects if possible??

I thought the 1 series covered all aspects of photography as much as possible with the technology at hand?

They havent even delivered on their 1DX promise and already, there seems to be something better for landscape photographers?  >:(

I totally agree with you, the whole line-up messed up...
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: briansquibb on June 07, 2012, 01:53:49 AM
"Our Flagship model 1DX".

If its Canons "Flagship", then why is Canon adding more megapixels?

Shouldn't a "Flagship" cover all aspects if possible??

I thought the 1 series covered all aspects of photography as much as possible with the technology at hand?

They havent even delivered on their 1DX promise and already, there seems to be something better for landscape photographers?  >:(

The D3S/D4/1D4 were flagships too - but there were higher mp bodies as well. Perhaps history is repeating itself?
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: pwp on June 07, 2012, 02:58:01 AM
keep going guys I'm nearly there...
http://bullshitbingo.net/cards/bullshit/ (http://bullshitbingo.net/cards/bullshit/)

Nice work WW.

PW
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: lola on June 07, 2012, 03:09:33 AM
keep going guys im nearly there...

http://bullshitbingo.net/cards/bullshit/ (http://bullshitbingo.net/cards/bullshit/)

 :D

This made my day! :)
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: briansquibb on June 07, 2012, 04:17:48 AM
I liked that Digital Rev video where they burnt a body out of the box. After submitting it to a high burn rate the milestone was to see if they could still reuse it. This brain storm was in the name of system integration rather than get the recscue services called to action
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: moreorless on June 07, 2012, 05:11:31 AM
if they were smart they would make the same guts available in the 1Dx shell and the 5D3 shell
shouldnt cost any more in reality and would make it appeal to a broader spectrum of users

Unless the DR is alot better that would mean two cameras with pretty similar specs though, much bigger difference between 18 and 30 MP.

To me the best option looks like it might be to release a sensor like this on a lower end body. Right now Canons problem to me seems to be that the D600 is going to sail quite close to the 5D3 in terms of specs so if they put out a similar model at a similar price they risk hurting 5D3 sales.

If Canon go with 30 MP on a body with specs somewhere between the 5D3 and the 5D2 then that would leave them more room to compete with Nikon without offering specs in other areas that are very close to the 5D3.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on June 07, 2012, 05:22:55 AM
To me the best option looks like it might be to release a sensor like this on a lower end body.

Best option for Canon or for mid-range Canon users? If Canon gets away with releasing the 30mp+ sensor in a premium body first, maybe even making people buy a 1dx/5d3 and a 3d at the same time that sounds like good business. With the money they're making from this and selling premium lenses, they can delay trickling down this new tech for a couple of years...
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: GMCPhotographics on June 07, 2012, 06:10:34 AM
I think that Canon can easily make a high mega pixel 1D series camera. The name of a 1D5 would work fine. I don't think that Canon can charge any more for it over a 1D-X....they both have a full frame sensor and essentially, they are the same camera. Both have the same size piece of silicon wafer and the only difference is the etching and design. The biggest difference is just that the Data through put cake is cut differently. High MP vs high frame rate. We know the dual Digic 5 is good for 225mb/s, so if we know the fps...then we can work out the remaining sensor density. My guess is 6fps / 36mp.
I think Canon made a slight naming error with the 5DIII, it would have been better to have named it the 5D-X. Then the 1D-X and 5D-X would have been fps centric cameras, leaving the 5DIII and 1D-5 names free for high pixel density centric cameras. All full frame, naturally.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: magnum on June 07, 2012, 07:04:04 AM
http://thenewcamera.com/?p=10949 (http://thenewcamera.com/?p=10949)
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: expatinasia on June 07, 2012, 08:10:46 AM
2D, 3D, 4D what? I think Canon should finish and ship the 1DX before it even thinks of "releasing" a new camera.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Neeneko on June 07, 2012, 09:58:49 AM
"Our Flagship model 1DX".

If its Canons "Flagship", then why is Canon adding more megapixels?

Shouldn't a "Flagship" cover all aspects if possible??

I thought the 1 series covered all aspects of photography as much as possible with the technology at hand?

They havent even delivered on their 1DX promise and already, there seems to be something better for landscape photographers?  >:(

Generally no, 'flagship' shouldn't cover all aspects.  If you are only going to have one flagship product you make it excel at what your company is known for, even if other features suffer since their marquee value is lower.

If your company is more general purpose then you do what Canon does, have multiple 'flagship' offerings, each optimized for one feature set.  Thus both the 1Ds and 1D lines are considered 'flagship' since each is designed to be the best Canon can produce at the specific role it preforms.   Trying to make a single offering that is 'best' across the spectrum generally results in a device that doesn't do nearly as well in any specific domain. Design, while not strictly zero-sum, is always involves compromises.

Also, if you think back to the historical usage of 'flagship'.. flagships were rarely jack of all trade vessels (technically the designation went to whichever ship had a particular person on it, but commanders tended to use specific types of ships if they had the option).. usually they were the biggest baddest ships out in the field, but navel warfare has always had a bit of a rock-paper-scissors element to it.  If you went out in nothing but ships of the line, chances are you were going to be coming back with far fewer ships (if any).  This is esp true in modern fleets.  An aircraft carrier (a common flagship type today) is a sitting duck if not protected by multiple tiers of screen.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: birdman on June 07, 2012, 11:31:27 AM
Assuming this rumor is true, I'd think Canon would still wait a couple of years before releasing it.  Everyone that would buy a camera like this just bought a D800/e or Canon 5D III; and if you're a professional you purchased two or three of them.  It will be at least three years before I consider purchasing another camera.

Everyone?? I see a lot of 5D II owners like myself that are not pushed to go to a 5DIII at all. And put off by the pain of starting a Nikon lenses collection. 5K for a camera along these lines would cost the same as a D800 and a 14-24mm lens and I'd be back to using my Canon 14mm L, 17mm TSE L, 24mm TSE L, and 24mm 1.4 L for architecture and landscape. Sign me up!

There are a few possible approaches to take.

1) Recognise that actually owning camera equipment is not very worthwhile unless it is making you money and/or you're using it regularly and then when you need it, rent/hire whatever happens to be the latest/best.

1a) Start up a Nikon lens collection, whilst keeping your Canon lens collection and just rent whatever body happens to be the latest/best/to your liking.

2) Build up an array of Nikon lenses, along with a D800 whilst keeping the Canon gear. Treat the bodies as something that can be sold/traded/whatever. Then you simply sell your older body and buy the new one whenever one manufacturer makes a big leap over the other.



----- I have actually built up a few Nikons for: a) to adapt and use on my 5d2
and/or b) To begin a collection in case Canon refuses to release high IQ ultra-wide lenses. Also, the average DR does disappoint on Canon's side; why are they so lagging behind Nikon's 5 year old D3 sensor? I don't understand.

Oh well, at least the f 4.0 affordable zoom market is dominated by Canon.....for now. I used to be able to say the same about normal range (24,35,50,85) prime lenses---but again, Nikon has jumped ahead for the moment.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: cliffwang on June 07, 2012, 01:57:24 PM
Assuming this rumor is true, I'd think Canon would still wait a couple of years before releasing it.  Everyone that would buy a camera like this just bought a D800/e or Canon 5D III; and if you're a professional you purchased two or three of them.  It will be at least three years before I consider purchasing another camera.

Everyone?? I see a lot of 5D II owners like myself that are not pushed to go to a 5DIII at all. And put off by the pain of starting a Nikon lenses collection. 5K for a camera along these lines would cost the same as a D800 and a 14-24mm lens and I'd be back to using my Canon 14mm L, 17mm TSE L, 24mm TSE L, and 24mm 1.4 L for architecture and landscape. Sign me up!

There are a few possible approaches to take.

1) Recognise that actually owning camera equipment is not very worthwhile unless it is making you money and/or you're using it regularly and then when you need it, rent/hire whatever happens to be the latest/best.

1a) Start up a Nikon lens collection, whilst keeping your Canon lens collection and just rent whatever body happens to be the latest/best/to your liking.

2) Build up an array of Nikon lenses, along with a D800 whilst keeping the Canon gear. Treat the bodies as something that can be sold/traded/whatever. Then you simply sell your older body and buy the new one whenever one manufacturer makes a big leap over the other.



----- I have actually built up a few Nikons for: a) to adapt and use on my 5d2
and/or b) To begin a collection in case Canon refuses to release high IQ ultra-wide lenses. Also, the average DR does disappoint on Canon's side; why are they so lagging behind Nikon's 5 year old D3 sensor? I don't understand.

Oh well, at least the f 4.0 affordable zoom market is dominated by Canon.....for now. I used to be able to say the same about normal range (24,35,50,85) prime lenses---but again, Nikon has jumped ahead for the moment.
I have just stopped buying new Canon gears and see what Canon is going to do.  Three of my colleagues who own 5D2 have decided not upgrading to 5D3.  We just don't feel it worth to upgrade our cameras to 5D3 at this moment.  Will we switch to Nikon?  It's still too early to say.  However, I now; thanks Canon; knows some Nikon gears.  It's really nice to know something from Canon's competitors.
Title: Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing [CR1]
Post by: Mr. Clicker on June 07, 2012, 02:00:44 PM
Here's how I use my Canons:

5D3 - high ISO event coverage, office shots using Speedlights, mixed lighting, studio portraits, fashion work, product etc

1dsMK2 - Long in the tooth, but such a robust camera - inclement weather out-door shooting, wet and or dirty locations (factories, wood shops etc) or anywhere else where the camera's weather sealing comes into play. It can really take the abuse.

And here's where the 3D would come in really handy - studio product, architectural, and in particular, studio dance or other action photography, allowing to shoot wide to accommodate for subject movement, cropping in and preserving the resolution. Assuming the Canon lenses can handle it..

So as a pro shooter, I could really benefit from a much higher resolution camera and welcome its arrival. The right tool for the job.

cheers.