canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => EOS Bodies - For Stills => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on June 08, 2012, 11:41:00 AM

Title: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Canon Rumors on June 08, 2012, 11:41:00 AM
Leaked Early
I’m not sure when the official announcement will be, but the information below is an official Canon release that briefly appeared on a Canon CPN site.

We posted about this firmware back in April.

Coming soon
Canon has announced an upcoming firmware update, 7D Firmware Version 2, for the 18 Megapixel EOS 7D that includes a raft of new features to further enhance the capabilities of Canon’s flagship APS-C format DSLR.

The new EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 update will enhance the camera with the following additional features:

IMPROVED RAW MAXIMUM BURST
In the EOS 7D the maximum burst of RAW file frames was 15 – with the firmware update this will be significantly increased so that the camera’s buffer will handle up to 26 RAW frames in a continuous burst.

IN-CAMERA RAW CONVERSION
The EOS 7D will allow for in-camera post-processing of images. RAW images can be edited in-camera and options can be changed before saving the finished file as a ready-to-print JPEG or for sending wirelessly. This function can be used with full resolution RAW files, but not with M-RAW or S-RAW files.

The settings for in-camera RAW processing include White balance, Picture Style, High ISO speed noise reduction, Colour Space, and lens data corrections (Peripheral Illumination Correction, distortion correction and Chromatic Aberration Correction).

IMAGE RATING CAPABILITIES
Like other Canon EOS DSLRs, such as the EOS 60D, EOS-1D X and EOS 5D Mark III, the EOS 7D will be able to rate images from 1 to 5 stars in-camera for quicker and easier sorting of images within your workflow. The ratings can be used to sort images in applications such as Adobe Elements, Adobe Bridge and Apple Aperture. The ratings are XMP compliant and Canon’s Digital Photo Professional software has been updated to reflect this.

AUTO ISO MAXIMUM SETTING
Within the EOS 7D’s shooting menu photographers will have the ability to set a maximum ISO speed for ISO Auto, within the ISO range of 400-6400, so that you can minimise the amount of noise in your images.

MANUAL ADJUSTMENT FOR AUDIO RECORDING LEVELS
During EOS Movie shooting you will be able to manually adjust the audio recording levels to one of 64 levels, whilst the sound volume during playback can be set to one of 11 levels. During movie recording noise from the aperture is reduced and the camera also has an automatic wind cut filter.

JPEG RESIZING
Within the camera’s image-recording menu with all JPEG images you will be able to resize the image (for image downsizing) and save it as a new image. Note that the aspect ratio cannot be changed.

SUPPORT FOR THE GP-E2 GPS UNIT
The GP-E2 unit arrived with the EOS 5D Mark III and this firmware update will enable the GPS unit to be used with the EOS 7D, via a cable connection, so that photographers can geo-tag images with latitude and longitude data in the EXIF fields.

QUICK CONTROL DURING PLAYBACK
With the Quick Control (Q) button pressed during image playback photographers will be able to select options for protect images, rotate images, rate images, resize images, highlight alert, AF point display and image jump.

FILE NAME SETTING
In the EOS 7D’s camera settings menu in user setting 1 the first four characters of the file name can be adjusted, whilst in user setting 2 the first three characters of the file name can be adjusted and the fourth will be set automatically according to the recording quality.

TIME ZONE SETTING
Within the EOS 7D’s camera settings menu you will be able to set the time zone, plus daylight saving time can also be set.

FASTER SCROLLING OF MAGNIFIED IMAGES
The screen scrolling speed will be faster for scrolling through images when they are enlarged. The ease of use is improved when using the camera to zoom in and check focus.

The existing impressive specifications of the EOS 7D include up to 8fps shooting speed, high ISO sensitivity up to 12,800 for low light shooting, an iFCL metering system with a 63-zone Dual-layer Metering Sensor for superbly accurate exposures, plus outstanding in-camera Speedlite Transmitter flash technology.

cr

Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: pedro on June 08, 2012, 11:49:13 AM
So, what will a 7DII be like? Are these hints of a probable change towards FF or aps-h?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: dolina on June 08, 2012, 11:52:34 AM
Wish the firmware also improves ISO noise.  ;D

This is a welcome upgrade from Canon and makes me happy I did not sell my 7D. Now only if I sold my 5D2 earlier I would have been able to buy the 5D3 by now.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Stone on June 08, 2012, 11:58:51 AM
I wonder if this means a delay in the release of the 7DII.  We knew there would be a firmware update to support the GP-E2 and I welcome the increased raw buffer and the auto ISO limit but I hope it doesn't mean it takes years before we see the 7DII
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: DzPhotography on June 08, 2012, 12:02:09 PM
Nice  ;D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Lee Jay on June 08, 2012, 12:03:17 PM
Sound's like horrible news to me on two fronts, and good news on another.

Horrible:
1)  Perhaps this means there will be no 7DII?
2)  The one feature they could have added that was a major reason I never bought a 7D in the first place still wasn't added - flexible video crop modes.  Come on Canon, even my 550D has a video crop mode!

Good:
1)  Canon usually doesn't enhance old products.  I'm still a bit bitter that a few of the very simple software-only features of the 30D weren't added to my 20D (such as better file and folder naming).  Maybe they're finally seeing the light?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: preppyak on June 08, 2012, 12:03:41 PM
So, what will a 7DII be like? Are these hints of a probable change towards FF or aps-h?
Haha, no. They are hints that the 7D could use some of the features they added...seeing as lesser cameras (60D) had some of these features and it didn't.

And the 7D will not become full-frame. If you want a full-frame version of the 7D, get the 5dIII, cause that's what it is.

I wonder if this means a delay in the release of the 7DII.
I'd say that is what it means the most. That the 7dII definitely isn't right around the corner, or they'd have just saved this for that release.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Tymo93 on June 08, 2012, 12:04:02 PM
Nice firmware, i like it.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Tymo93 on June 08, 2012, 12:06:23 PM
So, what will a 7DII be like? Are these hints of a probable change towards FF or aps-h?

It could be so that the 70D won't look so much of great feature camera compare to the old 7d.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: dswatson83 on June 08, 2012, 12:13:50 PM
Now i'm guessing a 70D is coming this fall that would make the 7D look bad and that we will not be seeing a replacement for the 7D till spring. There also may be another camera above the 7D that comes in October though like a lower end FF camera in the $2000-2700 range still. Maybe Canon is doing that and still wants to sell the 7D so they intro a new firmware to keep it up to date. Canon is still selling the 5DII so maybe they plan on bringing out a much higher end 7D replacement and keeping the 7D in the product line for a while longer.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: RC on June 08, 2012, 12:15:20 PM
I wonder if this means a delay in the release of the 7DII.  We knew there would be a firmware update to support the GP-E2 and I welcome the increased raw buffer and the auto ISO limit but I hope it doesn't mean it takes years before we see the 7DII

My first impression too.   None the less I'm looking forward to the update.   :)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: neuroanatomist on June 08, 2012, 12:17:32 PM
Quote
AUTO ISO MAXIMUM SETTING Within the EOS 7D’s shooting menu photographers will have the ability to set a maximum ISO speed for ISO Auto, within the ISO range of 400-6400, so that you can minimise the amount of noise in your images.

It's as if my prayers have been answered...  :D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Tymo93 on June 08, 2012, 12:20:51 PM
When will this update be available?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: OldSalt on June 08, 2012, 12:24:23 PM
Thank You Canon! 
It's like getting a new camera (almost) for free!
I am so glad that Canon decided to do this, I feel like Canon really did the right thing here.
They could have just as easily left the 7D alone and introduced a newer version (7D MKII) but they invested in their customers and I for one think that was the right thing to do.
 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: cellcrusher on June 08, 2012, 12:30:58 PM
Yeah!
I wonder when this will happen? New Mac Pros (hopefully) and a great firmware update; it is like Christmas!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: KitsVancouver on June 08, 2012, 12:34:23 PM
Thank You Canon! 
It's like getting a new camera (almost) for free!
I am so glad that Canon decided to do this, I feel like Canon really did the right thing here.
They could have just as easily left the 7D alone and introduced a newer version (7D MKII) but they invested in their customers and I for one think that was the right thing to do.
 ;D ;D

Don't fool yourself.  I'm saying this a bit tongue-in-cheek, but Canon doesn't do anything for their customers.  None of us will know for sure, but they probably needed some more separation between their low-end cameras and the mid-range 7D so that they can continue to sell some bodies at a higher ASP (average selling price). 

What this tells me is that Canon does in fact hold back features or cripple bodies.  In other words, their product specs are just as much a product of marketing segmentation as it is a limitation of technology.  If the processing power of the 7D is enough to support that much of an increase in buffer, it's more than just an improvement in firmware. 
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: AvTvM on June 08, 2012, 12:35:35 PM
Quote
AUTO ISO MAXIMUM SETTING Within the EOS 7D’s shooting menu photographers will have the ability to set a maximum ISO speed for ISO Auto, within the ISO range of 400-6400, so that you can minimise the amount of noise in your images.

It's as if my prayers have been answered...  :D

well, since they were at it, they could have gone the full mile ... and added EC in Manual mode with Auto ISO too. 
They again just added the bare minimum. Compared to Nikon's implementation it is still very lame.

Also I am quite surprised to see that RAW buffer can be extended by that much via a simple FW update. It tends to reinforce my strong suspicion, that hardware capabilities were there from the start but intentionally curbed back for the first three years - in order to not compete too much with the 1D III (and later 1D IV).

Other than that, even I am very pleased that Canon for the first time ever brings out a function-enhancing FW update for the 7D. Even though it comes a bit late in the day ... I will gladly install it on my 7D after using it for over 2 and a half years.   :-)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: lonelywhitelights on June 08, 2012, 12:36:13 PM
Obviously means no 7DII coming soon.

SUPER happy with new firmware =D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: dswatson83 on June 08, 2012, 12:40:54 PM
Obviously means no 7DII coming soon.

SUPER happy with new firmware =D
Or it means that the 7DII is going to be way more expensive ($2500) and they are going to keep the 7D in the product line.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: daveheinzel on June 08, 2012, 12:41:35 PM
Very happy about manual audio levels and setting a max when using auto ISO. :D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: candyman on June 08, 2012, 12:54:52 PM
 :)  I am very happy with this firmware update as well
I welcome the  AUTO ISO MAXIMUM SETTING  and  IMPROVED RAW MAXIMUM BURST 
And, SUPPORT FOR THE GP-E2 GPS UNIT is a great addition as well
Well done Canon! :)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: bloodstupid on June 08, 2012, 01:16:50 PM
If they add better AutoISO in the 7D maybe there is hope they will improve it in the 5D III too...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: traveller on June 08, 2012, 01:21:37 PM
"IMPROVED RAW MAXIMUM BURST In the EOS 7D the maximum burst of RAW file frames was 15 – with the firmware update this will be significantly increased so that the camera’s buffer will handle up to 26 RAW frames in a continuous burst."

That's quite an improvement, how are they managing to improve this without increasing the amount of RAM in the buffer? Is it more efficient data transfer protocols, or have they found a way to utilise the improved transfer speeds of the latest generation of CF cards?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Tymo93 on June 08, 2012, 01:24:24 PM
I want a grip with a joystick for the 7D!!!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: unfocused on June 08, 2012, 01:42:28 PM
I see this as very good news for the future of a 7DII. I seriously doubt Canon would be upgrading the 7D firmware and referring to it as its "flagship APS-C sensor" camera if they were planning to kill it off in a few months.

It also shows a commitment to their flagship model customers that, frankly, I appreciate. Yes, it makes good business sense for them to do this, but as long as I benefit, I'm not complaining.

On the downside, I do wonder if this means no 7DII by Photokina. But, I wouldn't say that for certain. If they continue the tradition of passing down the flagship sensor to lower level models it seems like they'll have to upgrade the sensor soon. Should be an interesting next few months.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: msdarkroom on June 08, 2012, 01:45:15 PM
"IMPROVED RAW MAXIMUM BURST In the EOS 7D the maximum burst of RAW file frames was 15 – with the firmware update this will be significantly increased so that the camera’s buffer will handle up to 26 RAW frames in a continuous burst."

That's quite an improvement, how are they managing to improve this without increasing the amount of RAM in the buffer? Is it more efficient data transfer protocols, or have they found a way to utilise the improved transfer speeds of the latest generation of CF cards?

+1

I don't understand how a jump from 15 to 26 can be done with a firmware update either. Good question.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: cycomachead on June 08, 2012, 01:52:11 PM
Wow! This has been my one major complaint with Canon - that they limit firmware only to when it's shipped -aside from bug fixes.

I'd be really happy to see this because it adds two things I've wanted - Auto ISO limit, and file name changing. However, it also leaves off the other one feature I've really wanted: 5 and 7 shot auto bracketing would be excellent, which the 1D series (and now 5D3) have.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: lonelywhitelights on June 08, 2012, 01:56:16 PM
Obviously means no 7DII coming soon.

SUPER happy with new firmware =D
Or it means that the 7DII is going to be way more expensive ($2500) and they are going to keep the 7D in the product line.

I don't think the 7D or the 5DII will disappear from the product line/ get discontinued any time soon.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Britman on June 08, 2012, 02:00:28 PM
I think the burst increase is, as has been said, a feature that being enabled. As for the firmware, it's one of the best, as in features, I've seen Canon release, it now makes me wonder what the 7D2 can gain. As for people thinking FF, the next 7 doesn't need it. All Canon need do is drop the price of the 5D2 so it's the same as the current 7D.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: DianeK on June 08, 2012, 02:04:07 PM
Quote
AUTO ISO MAXIMUM SETTING Within the EOS 7D’s shooting menu photographers will have the ability to set a maximum ISO speed for ISO Auto, within the ISO range of 400-6400, so that you can minimise the amount of noise in your images.

It's as if my prayers have been answered...  :D

Yes, this is the very one feature my 60D has that I was missing on my 7D - yeah.  This also makes me happy I picked up a used 7D instead of waiting for a 7DII because I'm thinking this is going to happen later rather than sooner.  Now if they gave the 60D a firmware update to give it AFMA, I'd be doubly happy.
Diane
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Kufat on June 08, 2012, 02:07:41 PM
I don't understand how a jump from 15 to 26 can be done with a firmware update either. Good question.

A friend and I brainstormed a few possibilities:
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: RLPhoto on June 08, 2012, 02:13:44 PM
I cant believe I didnt even notice this on the CR website. I Already love my 7D and this is gonna make Even More Awesome. I always hated not having manual audio control and an increased burst rate makes this  the best sports camera for the $$$$. I almost forgive you canon for the 5D3 but if you can do this with the 7D, you could surely do a wicked firmware update for the 5D3. (60fps at 1080P would be nice.)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Arkarch on June 08, 2012, 02:17:38 PM
Thank-you Canon.  It makes my 7D and 5D Mark III all that much more a great pair.

I don't understand how a jump from 15 to 26 can be done with a firmware update either. Good question.

A friend and I brainstormed a few possibilities:
  • They had previously used the available RAM as a simple linear buffer, but changed their algorithm to use it as a circular buffer, allowing more images to be taken after the first was written to the card.
  • There was already a circular buffer, but the write order was optimized.
  • A redundant write verification step may have been disabled.
  • A delay that only became evident when the camera was used with higher-speed cards than were available at launch may have been discovered and eliminated.  (If you need a very fast card to get 26; otherwise, it's not this one.)
  • Someone did something really boneheaded in the original coding and it slowed everything down.

Good thoughts. 

I have to believe they already use Circular Buffers, but they may not have been very good at it.  This brings the other elements into play.  At the time they may have prioritized other tasks thinking they had the time; or yes, it could have been crappy programming.  The hack guys may have a better opinion of the quality of Canon's embedded programming.  It could also be an improvement in their proprietary OS that gave them more time/space headroom.

Quote from: RLPhoto
I almost forgive you canon for the 5D3 but if you can do this with the 7D, you could surely do a wicked firmware update for the 5D3. (60fps at 1080P would be nice.)

I have to believe this round is a derivative of the work done for the 5D Mark III.   Sounds like the same team.  But yes, hopefully they can get back to 5D3 upgrades; or maybe they'll be tasked with the high MP camera.


Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: lonelywhitelights on June 08, 2012, 02:20:54 PM
So, what will a 7DII be like? Are these hints of a probable change towards FF or aps-h?

7DII would never be FF. wildlife & sports photographers would go crazy :P
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Kufat on June 08, 2012, 02:23:55 PM

I have to believe they already use Circular Buffers, but they may not have been very good at it.  This brings the other elements into play.  At the time they may have prioritized other tasks thinking they had the time; or yes, it could have been crappy programming.  The hack guys may have a better opinion of the quality of Canon's embedded programming.  It could also be an improvement in their proprietary OS that gave them more time/space headroom.


The question on my mind is whether the technique they used here could be used to squeeze one or two more photos out of a RAW burst on the T2i/T3i/etc.  Not that they'd bother backporting it even if it could...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Arkarch on June 08, 2012, 02:24:36 PM
So, what will a 7DII be like? Are these hints of a probable change towards FF or aps-h?

7DII would bever be FF. wildlife & sports photographers would go crazy :P

That 1.6X Extension for Free is too good to have available.   I see the 7DII likely to benefit from the work on High MP sensors.  Low Noise, higher FPS (maybe 12 as crop), great AF.  With that, it maintains a great pairing with the FF's for those who need a backup or need the reach with the same lens bag.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: lonelywhitelights on June 08, 2012, 02:27:11 PM
Quote
IMPROVED RAW MAXIMUM BURST

In the EOS 7D the maximum burst of RAW file frames was 15 – with the firmware update this will be significantly increased so that the camera’s buffer will handle up to 26 RAW frames in a continuous burst.


now... with my 600x/90mbs cards I can shoot 26 RAW frames continuously already so I don't really understand this...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: HowardLive on June 08, 2012, 02:27:24 PM
They had me at manual volume control.  ;D FINALLY!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Bob Howland on June 08, 2012, 02:30:43 PM
well, since they were at it, they could have gone the full mile ... and added EC in Manual mode with Auto ISO too. 

I can't think of a reasonable explanation why they wouldn't include that and AEB capability in both the 5D3 and this new 7D firmware. It seems like such a nobrainer. I also want a shutter speed safety shift for when there is too much light (e.g., the sun comes out from behind the clouds) in "M" W/Auto ISO and the camera starts to overexpose. Using "A" with Auto ISO would almost do this except that, with my 5D3, the fastest "Min Shutter Speed" that can be set is 1/250. I want 1/1000, at least.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: DaveQ on June 08, 2012, 02:37:03 PM
Thanks Canon! Some welcome additions!  ;D

Obviously 7DII won't be coming for some time, but these are really worthwhile upgrades in the meantime.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: darrellrhodesmiller on June 08, 2012, 02:40:43 PM
5 or 7 AEB bracketing would sure be nice.. considering what else they are doing it should be a simple addition. i hope they dont leave that only to the 5dmkIII and above
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: DB on June 08, 2012, 02:46:52 PM
Obviously means no 7DII coming soon.

SUPER happy with new firmware =D
Or it means that the 7DII is going to be way more expensive ($2500) and they are going to keep the 7D in the product line.

+1   They are going to introduce a 7D2, probably about a grand below the 5D3 in price -> could also suggest that it may be APS-H with new 61-point AF as well as 1DX and 5D3, but still a crop sensor.

And like the retention of the 5D2, Canon will likely keep the 7D mk I as an entry-level sports/wildlife camera. In fact, if a new 7D2 had a 24MP APS-H with massively improved AF, a lot of current 7D owners wold buy the new model whilst simultaneously keeping their old 7D as both a backup + alternative crop (slightly longer reach) camera body.

Clearly Canon is looking to extend it's product line further, while introducing new higher priced models.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Arkarch on June 08, 2012, 02:52:36 PM
5 or 7 AEB bracketing would sure be nice.. considering what else they are doing it should be a simple addition. i hope they dont leave that only to the 5dmkIII and above

Amen.   5 and 7 AEB is one of the most useable day-to-day improvements I have enjoyed with the 5D Mark III.  With the 7D, I need to take 3, then go into menu, shift it all, and take 3 more.  With the 5D Mark III, I can lay a -1 to +1 range on thirds.  Should not require any technology changes - just firmware.

Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: neuroanatomist on June 08, 2012, 02:54:25 PM
They are going to introduce a 7D2...could also suggest that it may be APS-H...

Reaching out a hand to shake your shoulder and wake you up from the dream...   ::)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: aznable on June 08, 2012, 03:12:59 PM
Quote
AUTO ISO MAXIMUM SETTING Within the EOS 7D’s shooting menu photographers will have the ability to set a maximum ISO speed for ISO Auto, within the ISO range of 400-6400, so that you can minimise the amount of noise in your images.

It's as if my prayers have been answered...  :D

it seems canon listen their customers...the next sensors will have an unbelievable DR and resolution ;)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on June 08, 2012, 03:20:36 PM
"IMPROVED RAW MAXIMUM BURST In the EOS 7D the maximum burst of RAW file frames was 15 – with the firmware update this will be significantly increased so that the camera’s buffer will handle up to 26 RAW frames in a continuous burst."

That's quite an improvement, how are they managing to improve this without increasing the amount of RAM in the buffer? Is it more efficient data transfer protocols, or have they found a way to utilise the improved transfer speeds of the latest generation of CF cards?

Yeah quite surprising. I guess either:
1. they share buffer chips between many models and it's all marketing that decides how much of the buffer RAM can be used and the limit is set in the software buffer allocation and now they are allowing the hardware it had all along to be fully utilized (in which case so much for all the talk about how buffer ram is so expensive and of course only a pro camera can have a lot)

2. the hardware was fast all along but I believe it came out when UDMA 6 was the best and maybe all it takes is some code to let it talk to UDMA 7 now and maybe the hardware interface between 6 and 7 are the same and all you need is software to properly handshake so long as the hardware is fast enough to handle it? I suppose it certainly could be this option. Although I know nothing about UDAM 6 and 7 and for all I know this suggestion is ridiculous

Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on June 08, 2012, 03:25:41 PM
I just hope it means a 5D3 new firmware that has been rumored is coming too.

They so incredibly badly need to:
1. remove the silly 1/250th limit in AutoISO Av and bump it to a good 1/2000th or allow for EC in AutoISO M or both
2. they have GOT to add focus peaking to the video mode!!!!
3. they really should add zebra stripes for blown exposure to the video mode
4. they really need to add a 1920x1080 2x2 sampled 1.6x cropped video mode and it wouldn't hurt to also add an even more extreme mode (although this latter one would need to have some line skipping compromises of course, the 1.6x would not) although the non-line skipped 1.6x needs to be there regardless
5. let the user have the option for a really high bitrate for video for the IPB mode

after the lukewarm reception it got from the video world they need to make it a solid effort
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 08, 2012, 04:01:22 PM
Doesn't sound too exciting, some stuff that magic lantern can do on non-7d bodies - but the good thing is that Canon is updating firmware, even just too to sell their gps units. There doesn't seem to be support for the new radio flashes though.

Quote
AUTO ISO MAXIMUM SETTING Within the EOS 7D’s shooting menu photographers will have the ability to set a maximum ISO speed for ISO Auto, within the ISO range of 400-6400, so that you can minimise the amount of noise in your images.
It's as if my prayers have been answered...  :D
Yes, this is the very one feature my 60D has that I was missing on my 7D - yeah.

The 7d didn't have this - ugh! How did you 7d guys use auto iso in the first place until now?

IMPROVED RAW MAXIMUM BURST

They can enable this with a firmware update??? This is embarrassing, please enable afma on my 60d too if you're fixing things that were crippled to make more expensive bodies more attractive!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: nicku on June 08, 2012, 04:12:18 PM
finally sound control.....
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: K-amps on June 08, 2012, 04:37:27 PM
I just hope it means a 5D3 new firmware that has been rumored is coming too.

They so incredibly badly need to:
1. remove the silly 1/250th limit in AutoISO Av and bump it to a good 1/2000th or allow for EC in AutoISO M or both
2. they have GOT to add focus peaking to the video mode!!!!
3. they really should add zebra stripes for blown exposure to the video mode
4. they really need to add a 1920x1080 2x2 sampled 1.6x cropped video mode and it wouldn't hurt to also add an even more extreme mode (although this latter one would need to have some line skipping compromises of course, the 1.6x would not) although the non-line skipped 1.6x needs to be there regardless
5. let the user have the option for a really high bitrate for video for the IPB mode

after the lukewarm reception it got from the video world they need to make it a solid effort

And hopefully the Firmware also comes with a 5D3E conversion kit, containing 2500 grit sandpaper to remove the AA filter   
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 08, 2012, 04:39:23 PM
2. they have GOT to add focus peaking to the video mode!!!!
3. they really should add zebra stripes for blown exposure to the video mode
5. let the user have the option for a really high bitrate for video for the IPB mode

Magic lantern does these on digic4 bodies except the 7d, and probably will do it on the 5d3, too.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: K-amps on June 08, 2012, 04:41:54 PM
2. they have GOT to add focus peaking to the video mode!!!!
3. they really should add zebra stripes for blown exposure to the video mode
5. let the user have the option for a really high bitrate for video for the IPB mode

Magic lantern does these on digic4 bodies except the 7d, and probably will do it on the 5d3, too.

The issue with the 7D was the dual Digic processors, with the 5D3 having a single processor, I have high hopes  :)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: darth mollusk on June 08, 2012, 04:42:54 PM

Amen.   5 and 7 AEB is one of the most useable day-to-day improvements I have enjoyed with the 5D Mark III.  With the 7D, I need to take 3, then go into menu, shift it all, and take 3 more.  With the 5D Mark III, I can lay a -1 to +1 range on thirds.  Should not require any technology changes - just firmware.


This was certainly one of the upgrades I was hoping for as well (why wouldn't canon do this - it must be a fairly straight forward change?).  There is a relatively effective go around though: pre-set C2 and C3 to the desired brackets, then it's just one click from C2 after your first three shots, to C3 - not perfect, but better than diving back into the menu.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 08, 2012, 04:48:29 PM
The issue with the 7D was the dual Digic processors, with the 5D3 having a single processor, I have high hopes  :)

Then think about sponsoring Alex' ml development if you can afford a 5d3...

This was certainly one of the upgrades I was hoping for as well (why wouldn't canon do this - it must be a fairly straight forward change?).

Even if sounding a bit repetitive :-p ... magic lantern does this, too, it even calculates how many brackets you need on the fly - so shoot 10 or more pictures with 0,5 ev steps for exposure fusion, no problem there.

It is sad that manufacturers have to resort to these firmware annoyances to sell their stuff, but for once Nikon isn't any better - e.g. the d7000 only does max. 2ev 3x bracketing which too little in many situations, too.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on June 08, 2012, 05:01:41 PM
2. they have GOT to add focus peaking to the video mode!!!!
3. they really should add zebra stripes for blown exposure to the video mode
5. let the user have the option for a really high bitrate for video for the IPB mode

Magic lantern does these on digic4 bodies except the 7d, and probably will do it on the 5d3, too.

Probably, but it may be a while still and it won't do the cropped video modes I don't think.
Better to just have the camera do it out of the box and not in like 8 months from now.

I should maybe even look to joining in on the work myself, although I really need to get a couple other programs done first, bu tmaybe I can find a little time for some firmware work.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Jason Beiko on June 08, 2012, 05:20:49 PM
Its nice to see Canon updating firmware, but for me none of the changes are relevant.  I would have liked them to change the AEB from three to 5. Without this I see no compelling reason to upgrade.

Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Arkarch on June 08, 2012, 05:22:51 PM
This was certainly one of the upgrades I was hoping for as well (why wouldn't canon do this - it must be a fairly straight forward change?).

-----

Even if sounding a bit repetitive :-p ... magic lantern does this, too, it even calculates how many brackets you need on the fly - so shoot 10 or more pictures with 0,5 ev steps for exposure fusion, no problem there.


Yep, but no Magic Lantern for the 7D as noted above.  The Dual Digics are the complicating factor. 

I suppose that means no Magic Lantern for the 1DX as well - with 2 Digic 5+'s and a Digic 4.

 
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 08, 2012, 05:52:51 PM
Yep, but no Magic Lantern for the 7D as noted above.  The Dual Digics are the complicating factor. 
I suppose that means no Magic Lantern for the 1DX as well - with 2 Digic 5+'s and a Digic 4.

I'm writing this because not everybody reading this thread has to be a current 7d user. As for ml on other bodies, the blocking problem is not that it's impossible, but that no one is actively developing it - ml is basically made by a single person, and he has a sponsored 60d (I contributed, too), a 5d2, maybe now a 5d3. If you want ml on the 7d or 1dx, you simply will have to sponsor (i.e. pay) for it because porting requires more effort than unified ml on digic4 550d->60d->600d->5d2
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: AlicoatePhotography on June 08, 2012, 05:53:55 PM
Great!?! ...  I just went out and bought a Zoom for audio recording, because the 7D couldn't set the levels.  Looks like I didn't need to do that now.  I was really hoping for them to unlock the native 1080P  where it is effectively zoomed in.  One of the other bodies has that, and I think it would be very cool to gain a lot of focal length(not really focal length)  for free.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: adamfilip on June 08, 2012, 06:11:13 PM
I love and hate. how canon can simply add features via just a firmware patch..
how they limit the cameras abilities on purpose..

Canon make the camera the best it can be and be only limited by the hardware. not the firmware..
If it could do these things.. and it was basically just locked out.. WTF is with that.. sure id be happy if i was a 7D user and I got new features.. for free.. that would be great. but it should have already been there..
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 08, 2012, 06:11:54 PM
Doesn't sound too exciting, some stuff that magic lantern can do on non-7d bodies - but the good thing is that Canon is updating firmware, even just too to sell their gps units. There doesn't seem to be support for the new radio flashes though.

Quote
AUTO ISO MAXIMUM SETTING Within the EOS 7D’s shooting menu photographers will have the ability to set a maximum ISO speed for ISO Auto, within the ISO range of 400-6400, so that you can minimise the amount of noise in your images.
It's as if my prayers have been answered...  :D
Yes, this is the very one feature my 60D has that I was missing on my 7D - yeah.

The 7d didn't have this - ugh! How did you 7d guys use auto iso in the first place until now?


You pointed the camera at the brightest point and got it to iso200. There were few times when light changes more than 4 stops in a shoot without you noticing.

The total range min shutter speed for AV and autoiso would be very welcome.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: TheFarmer on June 08, 2012, 06:25:58 PM
Excited.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on June 08, 2012, 06:30:59 PM
Great!?! ...  I just went out and bought a Zoom for audio recording, because the 7D couldn't set the levels.  Looks like I didn't need to do that now.  I was really hoping for them to unlock the native 1080P  where it is effectively zoomed in.  One of the other bodies has that, and I think it would be very cool to gain a lot of focal length(not really focal length)  for free.

The zoom is still useful since the internal audio amp has horrible hiss. You need to hook a juicedlink pre-amp into it to get rid of hiss on internal recording (414 for ambient and low level sound, 200-level is ok for loud stuff or very close non-ambient mic). So the zoom would still sound way better unless you sell it and use the money for a JL or something.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 08, 2012, 06:39:17 PM
Canon make the camera the best it can be and be only limited by the hardware. not the firmware..

Earth to Canon users: Canon doesn't want happy budget users, but unhappy premium users just before, but without actually jumping ship, resulting in optimal profit. But I agree, the unlocked raw rate after so many years is really a bad joke.

As for other features like auto iso, this is only a taste of what could be done with an open firmware, even magic lantern is just testing limits because the devs need to reverse engineer everything. New big marketing features on the 5d3/650d like in-camera hdr or multi-shot nr reduction are laughable, any half-competent programmer could do this in no time with a Canon sdk - actually ml did implement exposure fusion just like that, for free.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: crasher8 on June 08, 2012, 07:11:27 PM
Auto ISO max levels FTW but no Siri?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: DB on June 08, 2012, 08:22:13 PM
Great!?! ...  I just went out and bought a Zoom for audio recording, because the 7D couldn't set the levels.  Looks like I didn't need to do that now.  I was really hoping for them to unlock the native 1080P  where it is effectively zoomed in.  One of the other bodies has that, and I think it would be very cool to gain a lot of focal length(not really focal length)  for free.

Ditto, but I went further and purchased a special expensive audio cable (50 bucks + almost same again in shipping costs) in the USA to connect my Zoom H4n to my 7D, so as not to damage it :-\

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sescom-LN2MIC-ZMH4-MON-Cable-line-to-Mic-for-Zoom-H4N-with-monitoring-jack-4027-/390425137253?pt=Camera_Cables_Cords&hash=item5ae726d065#ht_950wt_1251 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sescom-LN2MIC-ZMH4-MON-Cable-line-to-Mic-for-Zoom-H4N-with-monitoring-jack-4027-/390425137253?pt=Camera_Cables_Cords&hash=item5ae726d065#ht_950wt_1251)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: gmrza on June 08, 2012, 09:01:45 PM
I love and hate. how canon can simply add features via just a firmware patch..
how they limit the cameras abilities on purpose..

Canon make the camera the best it can be and be only limited by the hardware. not the firmware..
If it could do these things.. and it was basically just locked out.. WTF is with that.. sure id be happy if i was a 7D user and I got new features.. for free.. that would be great. but it should have already been there..

Look at it this way: The way things currently are, the fact that features can be enabled by 3rd party developers like Magic Lantern places pressure on Canon to update its firmware.  We all benefit.  If the hardware had never had the capacity to support these updates in the first place, we would have been poorer for it.

Camera manufacturers are not the only ones who do this.  I still remember one mainframe upgrade at a previous employer of mine.  To perform the upgrade, an engineer from ICL came on site and cut a couple of jumpers.... done.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Richard8971 on June 08, 2012, 09:32:22 PM
Now i'm guessing a 70D is coming this fall that would make the 7D look bad and that we will not be seeing a replacement for the 7D till spring.

I would have to say that with the features on the new T4i, the 70D/7DII merge is looking like more of a reality. Why?

Here are my reasonings.

1. Current 60D is 5.3fps and T4i is 5fps.
2. They share the same 63 zone dual layer metering system.
3. They share the same 9 point AF system.
4. The T4i shares some features of the 7D like the built-in speedlite transmitter.

The 70D would have to be placed in the 7-8 fps range and likely sport a higher MP sensor. Like I have mentioned before, 18MP cannot be where Canon draws the sensor limit. The features found in the T4i would likely make it into the 70D as well.

That leaves us with the 7DII. Now, if it remains APS-C then it would have to have speed and features that exceed the 70D... hmmmm.

It makes more sence now than ever that Canon will "intergrate" the two lines. Either a 7DII OR a high performance XXD line camera (70D). The only other thing I can think of for the 7DII is a high performance (without APS-H or a "pro" body) line similar camera to the 1D series, but that doesn't make much sence. It would have to sport 10-12 fps (and perhaps a lower MP sensor) and have superior low-light capibilities, but I suppose anything is possible.

If Canon makes a budget FF, then this is the logical roadmap. The firmware update for the 7D suggests to me that this is where the line is going.

D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Edwin Herdman on June 08, 2012, 09:56:42 PM
I'm a bit shocked that they were able to improve the max RAW burst that far.  It's nearly doubled.  Wonder if it has something to do with newer CF cards, maybe?  I really don't see optimizations in the firmware data being able to push it that far.

I also think the faster scrolling in magnified image view is great.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: kdsand on June 08, 2012, 10:11:53 PM
Quote
AUTO ISO MAXIMUM SETTING Within the EOS 7D’s shooting menu photographers will have the ability to set a maximum ISO speed for ISO Auto, within the ISO range of 400-6400, so that you can minimise the amount of noise in your images.

It's as if my prayers have been answered...  :D

I think you had indeed expressed some exasperated feeling regarding this.  :o ;D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: kdsand on June 08, 2012, 10:21:56 PM
Quote
AUTO ISO MAXIMUM SETTING Within the EOS 7D’s shooting menu photographers will have the ability to set a maximum ISO speed for ISO Auto, within the ISO range of 400-6400, so that you can minimise the amount of noise in your images.

It's as if my prayers have been answered...  :D

Yes, this is the very one feature my 60D has that I was missing on my 7D - yeah.  This also makes me happy I picked up a used 7D instead of waiting for a 7DII because I'm thinking this is going to happen later rather than sooner.  Now if they gave the 60D a firmware update to give it AFMA, I'd be doubly happy.
Diane

Yes
Give me AFMA please please please!

I wouldn't mind some increased frame rate & 5-7 bracketing.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: downunder on June 08, 2012, 10:33:59 PM
What is the chance of firmware update for the 5d3 and 5d2 10fps ? :)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: x-vision on June 08, 2012, 10:39:44 PM
I wonder if this means a delay in the release of the 7DII. 

It seems to me that the 7DII delay will be ... infinite  8).

Don't forget about the upcoming Nikon D600.
The longer Canon delays the 7DII, the less sense it makes to announce a 7DII in the first place.
Unless the 7DII gets a FF sensor, that is.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: x-vision on June 08, 2012, 10:41:19 PM
What is the chance of firmware update for the 5d3 and 5d2 10fps ? :)

Don't know about the 5DII.
I heard a rumor, though, that Canon will have a firmware update to add additional megapixels to the 5DIII  :-* :-*.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: RLPhoto on June 08, 2012, 10:50:45 PM
They are going to introduce a 7D2...could also suggest that it may be APS-H...

Reaching out a hand to shake your shoulder and wake you up from the dream...   ::)

Neuro, what's so bad about aps-H? It fits in the lineup perfectly.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Gcon on June 08, 2012, 11:01:54 PM
Now i'm guessing a 70D is coming this fall that would make the 7D look bad and that we will not be seeing a replacement for the 7D till spring.

I would have to say that with the features on the new T4i, the 70D/7DII merge is looking like more of a reality. Why?

Here are my reasonings.

1. Current 60D is 5.3fps and T4i is 5fps.
2. They share the same 63 zone dual layer metering system.
3. They share the same 9 point AF system.
4. The T4i shares some features of the 7D like the built-in speedlite transmitter.

The 70D would have to be placed in the 7-8 fps range and likely sport a higher MP sensor. Like I have mentioned before, 18MP cannot be where Canon draws the sensor limit. The features found in the T4i would likely make it into the 70D as well.

That leaves us with the 7DII. Now, if it remains APS-C then it would have to have speed and features that exceed the 70D... hmmmm.

It makes more sence now than ever that Canon will "intergrate" the two lines. Either a 7DII OR a high performance XXD line camera (70D). The only other thing I can think of for the 7DII is a high performance (without APS-H or a "pro" body) line similar camera to the 1D series, but that doesn't make much sence. It would have to sport 10-12 fps (and perhaps a lower MP sensor) and have superior low-light capibilities, but I suppose anything is possible.

If Canon makes a budget FF, then this is the logical roadmap. The firmware update for the 7D suggests to me that this is where the line is going.

D

I agree with you. The feature improvements of the 650D mean there's no great reason to buy a 60D right now (if you can put up with the smaller size and no rear thumb dial on the 650D). The xxD line is getting feature-squeeze from below and the next xxD is getting pushed right into 7D territory - makes a lot of sense to merge lines. It would tidy up the naming immensely if they reserved all the xD naming for full frame only, and pushed the next 7D into budget full-frame territory.

Here's my road-map prediction:
----------------------
CROP SENSOR
----------------------
xxxxD:  Budget      - 1100D, 1200D, 1300D...2000D, 2100D, 2200D...
xxxD:   Enthusiast - 650D, 700D, 750D, 800D, 850D, 900D, 950D, 960D, 970D, 980D...
xxD:     Premium    - (7D), 70D, 71D, 80D, 81D, 82D, 90D, etc

-------------------
FULL FRAME
-------------------
7D:  Budget       - 7DmkII, 7DmkIII...
5D:  Semi-pro    - 5DmkIII, 5DmkIV...
3D:  High MP     - 3D, 3DmkII...
1DX:  Premium  - 1DX. 1DXmkII...

--------------------------
FULL FRAME CINE
--------------------------
1DC:  Premium - 1DC, 1DCmkII...


The 7D, 5D and 3D lines will natually get more cine features as they go on which gives them "feature headroom". Thus I doubt there will be a 7DC, 5DC or 3DC, but you never know.

As for the "3D", sure it creates confusion but in terms of price, it would probably sit in-between the 5D and 1DX, thus the 3D moniker is most likely.

P.S. - APS-H is dead.





Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: unfocused on June 08, 2012, 11:26:59 PM
They are going to introduce a 7D2...could also suggest that it may be APS-H...

Reaching out a hand to shake your shoulder and wake you up from the dream...   ::)

Thank God somebody has some sense here.

Canon just produced a major firmware upgrade for their "flagship APS-C format DSLR" (Their words, not mine) and people are imagining that they are going to a) merge this with an inferior model or b) change to a sensor size that they've abandoned.

These aren't mere dreams, they are full-on drug-induced, hallucinogenic fantasies.

The 70D will get the autofocus and most other characteristics of the 7D (except the alloy body). It will go up to about $1,300-$1,400 U.S. Close enough to the T4i to enable retailers to upsale potential customers. (Once a buyer crosses the physiological threshold of $1,000, it's pretty easy to get them to pop for a few hundred dollars more.)

That still leaves lots of room for a 7DII, which will get a new sensor, higher frame rate, enhanced autofocus, enhanced weathersealing and whatever else Canon decides to cram into it (driven by their targeted price point.) Pricing will be anywhere from $1,700 to $2,400 depending on features.

If it's under $2,000, we could see a 7Dx with an integrated grip and full weathersealing. (Professional sports/wildlife camera to replace the APS-H 1D. They can sell the pro-level for anywhere from $2,000 to $3,000 depending on how they target and market it.

Bottom line, Canon has at least $1,000 to $1,500 in headroom between the top Rebel and the flagship APS-C 7DII. That's plenty of room for a 70D and maybe even something else.

This fixation with an arbitrary numbering nomenclature as though it has to follow certain imaginary rules is just weird.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Richard8971 on June 08, 2012, 11:27:53 PM
What is the chance of firmware update for the 5d3 and 5d2 10fps ? :)

Honestly? 0%

Why? Firmware cannot change a camera's mechanical limits. The camera's fps is rated for it's optimum speed, under perfect conditions. Firmware cannot change that.

However...

Firmware CAN change the programming of the Digic chip. The Digic 4 chip in the Rebel is the same as the Digic 4 in the 1Ds series and 50/60D. It would cost way to much to make a seperate chip for each camera. All they have to do with one Digic chip is to load different programs in to lock/unlock different features of each camera. I would imagine that Canon put in the size of ROM chip to suit the max. burst rate that best suit the output of the camera's firmware program.

Seems to me that Canon might have found a way to process the images differently so that the burst rate can be increased. Or the 7D came with more ROM space than what the original firmware was programmed to take advantage of. They do that all the time in computers. Sometimes larger capacity chips are cheaper than smaller capacity chips, but because of marketing they downsized the capacity of the memory installed to the user. Maybe Canon will shed some light as to why it was able to be inceased, but I for one am looking forward to the update!  ;D
 
D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Richard8971 on June 08, 2012, 11:42:10 PM
Canon just produced a major firmware upgrade for their "flagship APS-C format DSLR" (Their words, not mine) and people are imagining that they are going to a) merge this with an inferior model or b) change to a sensor size that they've abandoned.

These aren't mere dreams, they are full-on drug-induced, hallucinogenic fantasies.

Um, didn't Canon just do this with the 1DX? ???  They took the flagship IDs line and the inferior ID line and merged them together to make one of the most advanced DSLR's ever made. Hmmm... I very clearly see them doing this with the XXD line and the 7D line.

The new list of VERY impressive features on the T4i ( and 1DX/5DIII) tell me that Canon isn't joking around anymore. They are out to produce some of the best cameras ever developed. Why sould the next 7D be any different?

Besides, with a possible new budget FF being rumored, it would likely be placed in the $2200-$2600 price range. The new 7D would then have to be kept in the $1600-$1800 price range, which would mean the 70D with a 18+ MP sensor, at 7-8 fps and added with the features of the 7D or 5DIII would have to be placed in the $1200-$1400 price range.

Um, I'm thinking no...

D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: unfocused on June 09, 2012, 12:04:50 AM
Canon just produced a major firmware upgrade for their "flagship APS-C format DSLR" (Their words, not mine) and people are imagining that they are going to a) merge this with an inferior model or b) change to a sensor size that they've abandoned.

These aren't mere dreams, they are full-on drug-induced, hallucinogenic fantasies.

Um, didn't Canon just do this with the 1DX? ???  They took the flagship IDs line and the inferior ID line and merged them together to make one of the most advanced DSLR's ever made. Hmmm... I very clearly see them doing this with the XXD line and the 7D line.

Um, no they didn't do that.They dropped an obsolete technology and merged the models into the flagship full frame. You would have a point if they had dropped the full frame flagship and kept the cheaper APS-H, but they didn't. They upgraded the more expensive model and gave it a new letter.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Richard8971 on June 09, 2012, 12:10:40 AM
Um, no they didn't do that.

Say what you want, but Canon DID merge two lines and they can do it again with the XXD line and XD line. Simple enough.

Unless you somehow have insider information to Canon's prototypes and roadmap...or do you?  :o  ::) None of us really know for sure what they are going to do, so all of us here have dreams of new future equipment being offered. :)

D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on June 09, 2012, 12:22:56 AM
What is the chance of firmware update for the 5d3 and 5d2 10fps ? :)

Depending on the card you use, some people (e.g. dpreview.com) already get 24 RAW frame burst instead of Canon's stated 15 RAW frame burst. However dpreview report that the 5D Mark III is limited to 17 whilst Canon claim 18.

So on the one hand, Canon are overstating the performance (5D Mark III) which is what we'd expect, and on the other hand (7D), Canon seem to be understating the performance.

You can get way more than 17 on a 5D3!

"A few numbers (all tests at 1/800th shutter, no IS, no AF, no NR or any other in cam jpg special processing options, max continuous drive mode selected (7D pointed at a bright light so as to maintain max frame rate)) with the raw number being number of shots before you hear it slow down shooting and timed number is the continuous time you could shoot non-stop at the camera's max frame rate (derived by a simple frames/max fps of camera):

Test 1 (lens cap on or super underexposed near black frames (i.e. with requiring minimum for storage) at ISO100 on 5D3):

14 shots with a slow Lexar 16GB 200x card
17 shots with a 30MB/s SanDisk Extreme III 8GB card
20 shots (3.3s) with a 32GB SanDisk Extreme Pro 90GB/s card
35 shots (5.8s) with a 32GB Lexar 1000x card (whoa! 35! vs 20! 5.8s of continuous shooting vs only 3.3s!)

(so the Lexar 1000x makes a surprisingly large difference on the 5D3 and is well worth the $ if you seriously shoot action with the 5D3, do note that the 16GB 1000x card is said to be slower than the 32GB and larger 1000x cards so the advantage may be less if you go for the 16GB size; with this speed card the 5D3 continuous shooting time easily beats the 5D2 and 7D)

Test 2 (as above but on a 5D2):
16 shots (4.1s) with a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card
17 shots (4.3s) with a Lexar 32GB 1000x card

(so the extra $ for the Lexar 1000x makes no difference on a 5D2; with this speed card the 5D3 actually lets you shoot continuously for less long than the 5D2 or 7D)

Test 3 (as above but on a 7D):
29 shots (3.7s) with a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card
28 shots (3.5s) with a Lexar 32GB 1000x card

(so the extra $ for the Lexar 1000x makes no difference on a 7D, same result)

Test 4 (these have an actual image being shot and the ISOs are higher so each RAW file is larger, the performance drops considerably, especially above ISO800 and NOTE that the numbers will vary depending upon the scene shot as different scenes and exposures will produce different file sizes and any given scenario may bump all the numbers noticeably up or down; all are on the Lexar 32GB 1000x card):

ISO3200 5D3 - 20 shots (3.3s) - a big drop from the 35 for ISO100 black frame
ISO1600 5D3 - 24 shots (4s)
ISO800 5D3 - 30 shots (5s)

Test 5 (as above only this time a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card was used in all cases):

ISO3200 5D3 - 14 shots (2.3s)
ISO1600 5D3 - 20 shots (3.3s)
ISO800 5D3 - 22 shots (3.7s)

Test 6 (as above only this time a SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s card was used):
ISO800 5D3 - 15 shots (2.5s)

So yeah for most Canon cameras the Lexar 1000x will not be worth the money at all (unless you are want to pay that much for faster transfer speed to your computer and your computer supports USB3 and you have a USB3 card read that also takes full UDMA 7 advantage) but for the 5D3 wow if you are serious about shooting action and dont want to be saddled with a shorter shooting time buffer than the old 5D2 or 7D then get the Lexar 1000x, suddenly you actually can shoot for longer times non-stop than with the 5D2 or 7D and often by a large margin. So for the 5D3 and action it is well worth it. "
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Richard8971 on June 09, 2012, 12:31:06 AM
I would have to agree with many of the posts here. If this new firmware becomes reality I would say that any new 7D would be delayed OR merged with the XXD. Why?

Well, when Canon first introduced the 7D it featured many new technologies. Even so, the 50D and 7D were pretty close in basic features (15MP, 6.3fps vs 18MP, 8fps) and Canon could NOT have the "semi-pro" XXD line positioned so closely to their flagship APS-C camera!

Tada!!! The 60D!!! It featured a plastic body, reduced frame rate and other things that separated it from the 7D and kept it about $500 cheaper.

Now we have the T4i. It might as well be the next 60D in terms of features/fps and it costs about a hundred less at the present time. In many ways the T4i appears to be a superior camera. That 'ups' the bar for any new XXD line, BY A LOT!!! The given price range for 2  high performance cameras in-between a possible budget FF and the Rebel doesn't make much sense. Better to drop the XXD line and go for the throat. Make one hell of a flagship ASP-C camera! Besides, it would make the competition against any new budget FF lower for Canon, sales-wise.

D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: psyrex on June 09, 2012, 12:33:04 AM
(Once a buyer crosses the physiological threshold of $1,000, it's pretty easy to get them to pop for a few hundred dollars more.)

I see a guy at a camera store laying down cash, then, as he gets close to $1k, his heart rate increases, eyes swim, and ears pound. His arm, aching and quivering, slowly advances until his cash triumphantly reaches the counter top! He quickly drops a few hundred dollars more, swoops up his camera, and races out of the store! [freeze frame at the door, in silhouette, one arm extended in glory!].

Yeah, pretty sure that's not a typo. I'm so doing that on my next purchase.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Richard8971 on June 09, 2012, 12:33:20 AM
What is the chance of firmware update for the 5d3 and 5d2 10fps ? :)

Depending on the card you use, some people (e.g. dpreview.com) already get 24 RAW frame burst instead of Canon's stated 15 RAW frame burst. However dpreview report that the 5D Mark III is limited to 17 whilst Canon claim 18.

So on the one hand, Canon are overstating the performance (5D Mark III) which is what we'd expect, and on the other hand (7D), Canon seem to be understating the performance.

You can get way more than 17 on a 5D3!

"A few numbers (all tests at 1/800th shutter, no IS, no AF, no NR or any other in cam jpg special processing options, max continuous drive mode selected (7D pointed at a bright light so as to maintain max frame rate)) with the raw number being number of shots before you hear it slow down shooting and timed number is the continuous time you could shoot non-stop at the camera's max frame rate (derived by a simple frames/max fps of camera):

Test 1 (lens cap on or super underexposed near black frames (i.e. with requiring minimum for storage) at ISO100 on 5D3):

14 shots with a slow Lexar 16GB 200x card
17 shots with a 30MB/s SanDisk Extreme III 8GB card
20 shots (3.3s) with a 32GB SanDisk Extreme Pro 90GB/s card
35 shots (5.8s) with a 32GB Lexar 1000x card (whoa! 35! vs 20! 5.8s of continuous shooting vs only 3.3s!)

(so the Lexar 1000x makes a surprisingly large difference on the 5D3 and is well worth the $ if you seriously shoot action with the 5D3, do note that the 16GB 1000x card is said to be slower than the 32GB and larger 1000x cards so the advantage may be less if you go for the 16GB size; with this speed card the 5D3 continuous shooting time easily beats the 5D2 and 7D)

Test 2 (as above but on a 5D2):
16 shots (4.1s) with a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card
17 shots (4.3s) with a Lexar 32GB 1000x card

(so the extra $ for the Lexar 1000x makes no difference on a 5D2; with this speed card the 5D3 actually lets you shoot continuously for less long than the 5D2 or 7D)

Test 3 (as above but on a 7D):
29 shots (3.7s) with a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card
28 shots (3.5s) with a Lexar 32GB 1000x card

(so the extra $ for the Lexar 1000x makes no difference on a 7D, same result)

Test 4 (these have an actual image being shot and the ISOs are higher so each RAW file is larger, the performance drops considerably, especially above ISO800 and NOTE that the numbers will vary depending upon the scene shot as different scenes and exposures will produce different file sizes and any given scenario may bump all the numbers noticeably up or down; all are on the Lexar 32GB 1000x card):

ISO3200 5D3 - 20 shots (3.3s) - a big drop from the 35 for ISO100 black frame
ISO1600 5D3 - 24 shots (4s)
ISO800 5D3 - 30 shots (5s)

Test 5 (as above only this time a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card was used in all cases):

ISO3200 5D3 - 14 shots (2.3s)
ISO1600 5D3 - 20 shots (3.3s)
ISO800 5D3 - 22 shots (3.7s)

Test 6 (as above only this time a SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s card was used):
ISO800 5D3 - 15 shots (2.5s)

So yeah for most Canon cameras the Lexar 1000x will not be worth the money at all (unless you are want to pay that much for faster transfer speed to your computer and your computer supports USB3 and you have a USB3 card read that also takes full UDMA 7 advantage) but for the 5D3 wow if you are serious about shooting action and dont want to be saddled with a shorter shooting time buffer than the old 5D2 or 7D then get the Lexar 1000x, suddenly you actually can shoot for longer times non-stop than with the 5D2 or 7D and often by a large margin. So for the 5D3 and action it is well worth it. "

Um, forgive me, but wasn't he asking about fps and NOT burst rate? Isn't that what 'fps' means? Or am I misreading it?

D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 09, 2012, 12:39:32 AM
There is no doubt in my mind that the faster cards must be a major contributor. When the 7D was released then the faster cards were not around so the firmware upgrade makes sense. At 24 frames RAW the 7D is getting into 1D4 territory ( which is also noticeably better with the 90mb cards)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: distant.star on June 09, 2012, 12:40:55 AM
.
The APS-H is DEAD and in it's grave as far as new products. RIP -- Get over it already.

Two disagreements with unfocus:

1. I've never heard physiology expressed in economic terms. Perhaps you mean "psychological."

2. Canon is preparing for a 7D2 that will be the APS-C equivalent of the 1DX. Pricing will be in the $2500 to $3000 range. If they can get past the gross irresponsibility of the 1DX delivery failure, the 7D2 is the next big project.



They are going to introduce a 7D2...could also suggest that it may be APS-H...

Reaching out a hand to shake your shoulder and wake you up from the dream...   ::)

Thank God somebody has some sense here.

Canon just produced a major firmware upgrade for their "flagship APS-C format DSLR" (Their words, not mine) and people are imagining that they are going to a) merge this with an inferior model or b) change to a sensor size that they've abandoned.

These aren't mere dreams, they are full-on drug-induced, hallucinogenic fantasies.

The 70D will get the autofocus and most other characteristics of the 7D (except the alloy body). It will go up to about $1,300-$1,400 U.S. Close enough to the T4i to enable retailers to upsale potential customers. (Once a buyer crosses the physiological threshold of $1,000, it's pretty easy to get them to pop for a few hundred dollars more.)

That still leaves lots of room for a 7DII, which will get a new sensor, higher frame rate, enhanced autofocus, enhanced weathersealing and whatever else Canon decides to cram into it (driven by their targeted price point.) Pricing will be anywhere from $1,700 to $2,400 depending on features.

If it's under $2,000, we could see a 7Dx with an integrated grip and full weathersealing. (Professional sports/wildlife camera to replace the APS-H 1D. They can sell the pro-level for anywhere from $2,000 to $3,000 depending on how they target and market it.

Bottom line, Canon has at least $1,000 to $1,500 in headroom between the top Rebel and the flagship APS-C 7DII. That's plenty of room for a 70D and maybe even something else.

This fixation with an arbitrary numbering nomenclature as though it has to follow certain imaginary rules is just weird.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 09, 2012, 12:58:23 AM
.
The APS-H is DEAD and in it's grave as far as new products. RIP -- Get over it already.


That has never been stated by Canon - in fact there are hints that the APS-H sized sensor will be used in video.

It is daft to make statements like that unless you have inside info on Canon's technical tactical plans.

I would have said the recent 650D announcement and other rumours would have made it more likely. The APS-H sensor has proven itself at high mps which means that the rumoured non 1 series high mps might well be APS-H as a high mps ff would be more expensive and take the sales away from the 1DX (which isn't going to happen)

A 'inferior' APS-H sensored, small bodied, cheaper but high mps body would slot in nicely between the 5DIII and the 1DX.

I think it is APS-C which will come under pressure as the 'budget' sector puts in APS-C sensors - then the $500 handy cams would start giving images as good as the entry level DSLRs - meaning soccer mums and uncle joes would have no reason to buy DSLRs - in which case the volume entry level collapses taking with it the upgraders as well, just leaving the enthusiasts and a few pros
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: distant.star on June 09, 2012, 01:30:47 AM

.
Daft is actually quite fun, Brian. You should give it a go!

Daft though I be, I am rarely wrong.

If you see an APS-H in any Canon camera in the next few years, let me know. I'll come over and treat you to a nice tea biscuit and a few orange slices (California oranges!).




.
The APS-H is DEAD and in it's grave as far as new products. RIP -- Get over it already.


That has never been stated by Canon - in fact there are hints that the APS-H sized sensor will be used in video.

It is daft to make statements like that unless you have inside info on Canon's technical tactical plans.

I would have said the recent 650D announcement and other rumours would have made it more likely. The APS-H sensor has proven itself at high mps which means that the rumoured non 1 series high mps might well be APS-H as a high mps ff would be more expensive and take the sales away from the 1DX (which isn't going to happen)

A 'inferior' APS-H sensored, small bodied, cheaper but high mps body would slot in nicely between the 5DIII and the 1DX.

I think it is APS-C which will come under pressure as the 'budget' sector puts in APS-C sensors - then the $500 handy cams would start giving images as good as the entry level DSLRs - meaning soccer mums and uncle joes would have no reason to buy DSLRs - in which case the volume entry level collapses taking with it the upgraders as well, just leaving the enthusiasts and a few pros
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: unfocused on June 09, 2012, 01:38:04 AM
Ha! Distant star you are right. Darn autocorrect, typing too fast and late night got to me.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 09, 2012, 01:57:38 AM

.
Daft is actually quite fun, Brian. You should give it a go!

Daft though I be, I am rarely wrong.

If you see an APS-H in any Canon camera in the next few years, let me know. I'll come over and treat you to a nice tea biscuit and a few orange slices (California oranges!).




.
The APS-H is DEAD and in it's grave as far as new products. RIP -- Get over it already.


That has never been stated by Canon - in fact there are hints that the APS-H sized sensor will be used in video.

It is daft to make statements like that unless you have inside info on Canon's technical tactical plans.

I would have said the recent 650D announcement and other rumours would have made it more likely. The APS-H sensor has proven itself at high mps which means that the rumoured non 1 series high mps might well be APS-H as a high mps ff would be more expensive and take the sales away from the 1DX (which isn't going to happen)

A 'inferior' APS-H sensored, small bodied, cheaper but high mps body would slot in nicely between the 5DIII and the 1DX.

I think it is APS-C which will come under pressure as the 'budget' sector puts in APS-C sensors - then the $500 handy cams would start giving images as good as the entry level DSLRs - meaning soccer mums and uncle joes would have no reason to buy DSLRs - in which case the volume entry level collapses taking with it the upgraders as well, just leaving the enthusiasts and a few pros

It is distinctly possible you are correct that the APS-H wont appear in a Canon still camera. However it isn't a fact yet so it is probably unwise to state it as such.

PS I give lessons in daftness :)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: cycomachead on June 09, 2012, 03:28:27 AM
5 or 7 AEB bracketing would sure be nice.. considering what else they are doing it should be a simple addition. i hope they dont leave that only to the 5dmkIII and above

Amen.   5 and 7 AEB is one of the most useable day-to-day improvements I have enjoyed with the 5D Mark III.  With the 7D, I need to take 3, then go into menu, shift it all, and take 3 more.  With the 5D Mark III, I can lay a -1 to +1 range on thirds.  Should not require any technology changes - just firmware.

Agreed. 1D bodies have done this forever.... It took me all of two minutes from the first time I used a 1D series to  miss this feature in every camera. To me, at least, specifying the step interval is more intuitive than seeing the overall range, but Canon could easily modify the current Q menu to makes things simple and provide good visual feedback.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 09, 2012, 03:34:31 AM
I would imagine that Canon put in the size of ROM chip to suit the max. burst rate that best suit the output of the camera's firmware program.

From the Canon firmware sourcecode:

/* burst limit, consult marketing before changing */
/* note: hardware limit on the 7d is 30 */
/* obfuscate in code to hinder changes by user */
#define MAXIMUM_BURST_DUMB_USER_KLUDGE 26
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: ruuneos on June 09, 2012, 03:57:21 AM
Sounds SWEET!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Aglet on June 09, 2012, 04:08:48 AM
Pretty cool new bag of tricks for just firmware, glad to see it.  Maybe that'll help improve my less than enthusiastic enjoyment of my 7D.

I just hope that, as part of the boot sequence and every few minutes, they've enabled an automatic data-channel matching adjustment to reduce the low iso banding that often plagues some bodies.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: kdsand on June 09, 2012, 04:13:43 AM
To me this presents two possibilities:
1) 7D owners are getting antsy so Canon is stalling until 7DII is ready as others have stated.
2) Some one else could potentially unlock or improve these features (such as magic lantern) which would at best embarrass Canon.


One thing I am certain of is there will be a definite clear cut 7D successor.  The 7D occupies the highest end crop sensor slot and there are lot of 7D owners waiting & wanting to give Canon their $ for a new and improved 7D. Seeing the great t4i features is exciting because the new 7D?? will certainly eclipse any Rebel.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 09, 2012, 04:24:42 AM
Seeing the great t4i features is exciting because the new 7D?? will certainly eclipse any Rebel.

I don't see any 7d users longing for a swivel touchscreen, muti-shot still shot noise reduction or live video af from the 650d. What they (and I) for the moist part want is an improved sensor, and it is doubtful if Canon can or wants deliver this.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: kdsand on June 09, 2012, 04:49:21 AM
Seeing the great t4i features is exciting because the new 7D?? will certainly eclipse any Rebel.

I don't see any 7d users longing for a swivel touchscreen, muti-shot still shot noise reduction or live video af from the 650d. What they (and I) for the moist part want is an improved sensor, and it is doubtful if Canon can or wants deliver this.

Regardless of what Canon may or may not want, a new 7D?? will need a new class leading crop sensor.
Much better ISO performance & noticeably improved AF. Much of the rest is just fluff, icing on the cake or a guilded lily.
They need to in order to make the market jump aboard.

 Tell you what include the toy camera affects then I'm all over it  just like a fly on ____ !  :o
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: pedro on June 09, 2012, 06:51:10 AM
So, what will a 7DII be like? Are these hints of a probable change towards FF or aps-h?

7DII would never be FF. wildlife & sports photographers would go crazy :P

OR: What if the 7DII or 7Dx will be FF with an implemented 1.6 Crop mode? ISOs up to 25600? Wouldn't it make a perfect lower segment FF multiusable baby-1Dx-body? Or would this convert it into a 5Diii killer? Any comments welcome. Cheers, Pedro.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Ew on June 09, 2012, 08:14:53 AM
A 5d2 killer definitely - unless its priced @2600+ and the 5d2 drops to 1899.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: SPL on June 09, 2012, 08:36:49 AM
I agree with many of these comments!  A new sensor is needed as I'm quite tired of the 7D noise and banding at low ISO.  7 shot AEB would be really, really nice also!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: pedro on June 09, 2012, 08:45:18 AM
A 5d2 killer definitely - unless its priced @2600+ and the 5d2 drops to 1899.

I supposed my wishful thinking FF/Crop 1.6 7DX to be a fine replacement of the 5D2. And of course you are right, it wouldn't be a 5D3 killer at all. But an affordable body for many purposes. Tag it  US $ 2400 and you get a nice gap between APS-C and the next level FF body, the current 5D3. Any other comments welcome.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: crasher8 on June 09, 2012, 09:25:50 AM
A 5d2 killer definitely - unless its priced @2600+ and the 5d2 drops to 1899.

I supposed my wishful thinking FF/Crop 1.6 7DX to be a fine replacement of the 5D2. And of course you are right, it wouldn't be a 5D3 killer at all. But an affordable body for many purposes. Tag it  US $ 2400 and you get a nice gap between APS-C and the next level FF body, the current 5D3. Any other comments welcome.


THAT would be my dream crop body
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: pedro on June 09, 2012, 09:48:03 AM
Well, let's wirte to canon then...if the other label did something thing similar, this would be revolutionary as it builds on the well respected specs of the original 7D. Don't have it, but what I've read here and there, is more than enough. It has a high reputation. A colleague of mine has one and he loves it!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 09, 2012, 09:52:44 AM
I supposed my wishful thinking FF/Crop 1.6 7DX to be a fine replacement of the 5D2. And of course you are right, it wouldn't be a 5D3 killer at all. But an affordable body for many purposes. Tag it  US $ 2400 and you get a nice gap between APS-C and the next level FF body, the current 5D3. Any other comments welcome.

Given the apparent (lack of) Canon's sensor building capability, it wouldn't be a fine 5d2 replacement, it wouldn't be a replacement at all. And I still think there's a larger market for a $2000-$2500 full frame body than for a high-end aps-c, if Canon should choose to only produce one body in this price range.

First off, this enthusiast's forum isn't a market representation, here are more people around that would pay anything for a high-end aps-c birding body. And since this can replace much more expensive action bodies, too, while taking cheaper lenses because of the 1.6x crop factor - what would Canon's interest in this be?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: jouster on June 09, 2012, 11:19:44 AM
These sound very useful. I haven't done a firmware upgrade before. Are they difficult?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: lonebear on June 09, 2012, 11:26:14 AM
A rumor stated 7D may not have a direct successor. A FF/1.6 crop is not a direct successor, as it will not be compatible with the beloved 10-22mm and 17-55mm. Neither will an APS-H model. So, both could echo to that rumor.

My guess is more inclining towards APS-H. My reasoning is as follow: the extra reach provided by crop model is the major preference of the 7D camp. The 1.6 crop mode in a FF/1.6 crop model will be lower either in pixel resolution (if MP is less than 45) or lower IQ (if MP is higher), neither will be preferable to a potential 7DX buyer. However, a 1.3 crop model is a different story. Basically, you are giving up some extra reach for some better IQ (FF is an extreme case of this kind trade-off). In reality, 1D4 had been viewed as the upgrade of current 7D. If a 7DX comes with an APS-H sensor, Canon can pack more pixels (than current 7D) in it while at the same time providing bigger sensels (which implies better IQ) if MP is controlled below 27MP.

Besides, APS-H format provides an excellent test field for Canon. 7DX is viewed lower than 1D4, thus a minor failure in IQ can be tolerable which is good for experiment. A 21 MP in a 7DX (36MP in FF), if successful, will demonstrate Canon's ability in high MP models. A 24 MP APS-H will give a higher MP while still providing noticeable larger sensel size if other technology factors are same (to the current 7D sensor).

A 21-24MP APS-H 7DX would mean, 1D4's reach at about half price, more pixels for the heavy cropping, IQ in between 5DIII and 7D, possibly match 1D4's IQ if Canon could put any sensor improvement in it. Will it not be enticing to any current 7D user?

"Big splash"? In Photokina?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: jouster on June 09, 2012, 11:32:55 AM
Now that the Rebels have a sensor at least as good as my 2+ yr old 7D, my upgrade needs are met: I do solar system SLR photography so want as many pixels as possible. APSH would not be an advantage as my telescope's iamage circle isn't big enough to cover the entire sensor.

I admit that this is something of a niche use case!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Richard8971 on June 09, 2012, 12:01:22 PM
I agree with you. The feature improvements of the 650D mean there's no great reason to buy a 60D right now (if you can put up with the smaller size and no rear thumb dial on the 650D). The xxD line is getting feature-squeeze from below and the next xxD is getting pushed right into 7D territory - makes a lot of sense to merge lines. It would tidy up the naming immensely if they reserved all the xD naming for full frame only, and pushed the next 7D into budget full-frame territory.

Here's my road-map prediction:
----------------------
CROP SENSOR
----------------------
xxxxD:  Budget      - 1100D, 1200D, 1300D...2000D, 2100D, 2200D...
xxxD:   Enthusiast - 650D, 700D, 750D, 800D, 850D, 900D, 950D, 960D, 970D, 980D...
xxD:     Premium    - (7D), 70D, 71D, 80D, 81D, 82D, 90D, etc

-------------------
FULL FRAME
-------------------
7D:  Budget       - 7DmkII, 7DmkIII...
5D:  Semi-pro    - 5DmkIII, 5DmkIV...
3D:  High MP     - 3D, 3DmkII...
1DX:  Premium  - 1DX. 1DXmkII...

--------------------------
FULL FRAME CINE
--------------------------
1DC:  Premium - 1DC, 1DCmkII...


The 7D, 5D and 3D lines will natually get more cine features as they go on which gives them "feature headroom". Thus I doubt there will be a 7DC, 5DC or 3DC, but you never know.

As for the "3D", sure it creates confusion but in terms of price, it would probably sit in-between the 5D and 1DX, thus the 3D moniker is most likely.

P.S. - APS-H is dead.

I would agree with you except one thing. I do not see the 7DII getting a FF sensor. Why? If you want a 7D with a FF sensor, buy the 5DIII.

As long as the 7D is still in production we will NOT see a high performance (which is where it would have to be placed given the features found in the new T4i) 70D that will directly compete with the 7D line. It doesn't make any sense to discontinue a line (7D) to make room for a new 70D and then down the road, re-release the 7D line. Given the feature downgrade of the last XXD camera, the feature upgrade of the new Rebel (and the existence of the entry level "T" line) I would say Canon will drop the XXD line and keep the 7D line the flagship of the APS-C DSLR.

My best guess is that the "T" line with be the "new" entry level DSLR and the Rebel will "replace" the XXD line. (Otherwise why would have Canon made the new Rebel so impressive?) I bet the sales of the XXD line have dropped with the existance of the 7D and feature downgrade of the 60D. I know when it came time to buy a new camera, I didn't even look at the 60D, (even though I own the 40D and 50D and love the XXD line) I forked out the extra $$$ and went straight for the 7D.

When the 7D was first released many thought it was going to replace the XXD line then. I would have to say that with Canon's choices of new cameras/features, it seems logical that is where they are going.

They could place the new 7D in the $1400-$1800 price range and give lots of room for a budget minded 5DII replacement. The 5DII still has a strong place in the market but now needs some upgrades. This is the camera I foresee being placed in the $1800-$2200 price range. Canon has never placed two cameras in the same pricing range. If Canon DOES release a budget-minded APS-C "1D" replacement, it won't be the 7DII, it will likely be the 3D (with pricing of $2600-$3000) or similar.

D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Richard8971 on June 09, 2012, 12:22:35 PM
These sound very useful. I haven't done a firmware upgrade before. Are they difficult?

No. A firmware update is very simple. Go to Canon's website and download the new firmware to your computer, unzip the file and then copy the unzipped firmware patch to your SD/CF card and load it into your camera. The Canon website will give you detailed instructions on how to do this.

D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Jack on June 09, 2012, 01:20:47 PM
Just curious. Is it possible, that Canon has designed the 7D with advance features in the hardware and now is bringing out the software to activate those features?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: AvTvM on June 09, 2012, 01:40:10 PM
The 7D II will be APS-C without anyquestion. How good it will be depends mainly on Nikon: whether they bring a strong D400 (APS-C) or not.

Without Nikon D300 all we would have ever gotten from Canon after the 50D would have been the lacklustre 60D followed by an incrementally improved  lacklustre 70D ...

I see no need whatsoever for a 70D.   Either go cheap, but good enough = Rebel/650D or go more expensive and get a faster, better APS-C cam in a wheathersealed, robust body. No need to artificially put something in between.

For the 7D II ... just take the 650D sensor (let's hope it's a major improvement over the current 18 MP sensor!) and its Hybrid FPPD-AF (in lievveiw/video mode), take the articulated touchscreen + improved user interface, take the pop-upflash and replace it with a wireless radio-flash controller for 600EX-RTs, take a few more  goodies (fully-fledged Auto ISO, uder-selectable 2 to 99 shot AEB, etc.) and then ...
most importantly: sell it for € 1800 [like the 7D when it came out] and everything will be fine.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: jouster on June 09, 2012, 01:49:09 PM
These sound very useful. I haven't done a firmware upgrade before. Are they difficult?

No. A firmware update is very simple. Go to Canon's website and download the new firmware to your computer, unzip the file and then copy the unzipped firmware patch to your SD/CF card and load it into your camera. The Canon website will give you detailed instructions on how to do this.

D

Awesome - thanks. That means I'll have to get a CF reader as I don't have one and usually download the pics direct from my camera.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: surfing_geek on June 09, 2012, 01:51:55 PM

Um, didn't Canon just do this with the 1DX? ???  They took the flagship IDs line and the inferior ID line and merged them together to make one of the most advanced DSLR's ever made.



<rant>


This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, more at a viewpoint that I disagree with.  The quote just illustrates my argument.


Why must less megapixels always mean that a camera is "inferior"? The 1Ds and 1D were both professional cameras, aimed at different markets and, therefore, designed with different specs.  That Canon are now able to combine these due to advances in manufacturing processes does not make the 1D any more inferior or any less the professional camera.  I cannot understand this mentality that a camera must be crammed with megapixels and be FF to be the professional.  I'm sure that there are many wildlife and sports photgraphers out there who would take exception to being called less professional because they aren't shooting FF at 30MP.


It's just about having the best tool for the job in hand.


</rant>
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 09, 2012, 01:52:40 PM
I see no need whatsoever for a 70D.   Either go cheap, but good enough = Rebel/650D or go more expensive and get a faster, better APS-C cam in a wheathersealed, robust body. No need to artificially put something in between.

Putting a product between $600 and $1600 isn't artificial, it's essential in this price range. And it makes sense too, because many people who bought a 60d seem to want better ergonomics (top lcd, back dial) without premium "flagship" features and price tag.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Deeohuu on June 09, 2012, 04:08:37 PM
These sound very useful. I haven't done a firmware upgrade before. Are they difficult?

No. A firmware update is very simple. Go to Canon's website and download the new firmware to your computer, unzip the file and then copy the unzipped firmware patch to your SD/CF card and load it into your camera. The Canon website will give you detailed instructions on how to do this.

D

Awesome - thanks. That means I'll have to get a CF reader as I don't have one and usually download the pics direct from my camera.

If for some reason you don't want to buy a card reader read the instructions. There are two ways to upgrade and one does not require a card reader.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: DB on June 09, 2012, 05:28:04 PM
Just curious. Is it possible, that Canon has designed the 7D with advance features in the hardware and now is bringing out the software to activate those features?

That's a very good question. Who knows. One can speculate that many of the new improved features such as full manual audio control during video are 100% software based changes, in response to so many Canon owners complaining about the lack of this feature, or worse, installing non-approved software such as Magic Lantern (by booting off a memory card). Clearly this add-on is an after thought by Canon.

Other features such as higher RAW burst mode were probably limited by the speed of CF memory cards back in 2009 when the 7D was first launched, but as others have suggested here, this feature too is largely software based (or controlled). I think Canon engages in 'satisficing' (means sub-optimal) intentionally to preserve features across its product line e.g. 7D has dual-Digic 4 processors, same as 1DIV, which is why it can shoot at 8fps, but the presence of both those chips probably means that it could do a whole lot more - so how do Canon Inc. monetize that (they don't get paid for giving away freebie features).

In answer to your question, more than likely a bit of both, some they knew they could do but didn't on purpose, other features were demanded by users after the fact.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: dr croubie on June 09, 2012, 07:11:30 PM
Quote from: Canon's Marketing Team
"Oh crap, we've got all these old 7D bodies lying around that aren't selling (because of the 5D2 getting cheaper, or the D3200, K5, NEX-7, or whatever), and we need to get rid of them before the 7D mk 2 is announced in a few months".
"I know, let's take the firmware from the new 7D2, it won't cost us anything much to port it to the 7D, demand for the 7D will pick back up again and help us clear stocks before we drop the 7D2."

Or am I too cynical?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 09, 2012, 07:16:57 PM
Quote from: Canon's Marketing Team
"Oh crap, we've got all these old 7D bodies lying around that aren't selling (because of the 5D2 getting cheaper, or the D3200, K5, NEX-7, or whatever), and we need to get rid of them before the 7D mk 2 is announced in a few months".
"I know, let's take the firmware from the new 7D2, it won't cost us anything much to port it to the 7D, demand for the 7D will pick back up again and help us clear stocks before we drop the 7D2."

Or am I too cynical?

 ::) ::) ::)   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: NHUSA on June 09, 2012, 07:41:18 PM
Does this potential audio update mean that the Audio Gain Control will be eliminated/controlled...meaning that an external microphone would be much more usable/useful?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: DB on June 09, 2012, 08:01:50 PM
Nowhere on World Wide Web is there confirmation other than CR that firmware 2.0 for 7D is imminent, not on Canon USA/Europe, nor on CPS or their 'News' archives ??
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: bry on June 09, 2012, 08:23:40 PM
This is definitely a step in the right direction from Canon, and even if cynical, it's very welcome.

The Canon 7D is the only Canon DSLR with 2 processors, and still it doesn't do anything that the 550D doesn't do on video mode. There's definitely room for improvement even with just software updates. This an impressive camera hardware wise and if Canon wanted, it could do much more than it does at the moment.

Also, I think this should be the way to go with firmware updates and physical models that last longer, even if we have to pay for the updates, cause it's much more environmental friendly, and people these days spend all the time upgrading for a couple new useless features, and in most cases they don't even ever do anything with the cameras.

Regarding a 7DmkII, do you guys really think that Canon will replace their entire range of DSLRs in the same year? What then, not release anything for another 3 years?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Halocastle on June 09, 2012, 08:36:13 PM
Quote from: Canon's Marketing Team
"Oh crap, we've got all these old 7D bodies lying around that aren't selling (because of the 5D2 getting cheaper, or the D3200, K5, NEX-7, or whatever), and we need to get rid of them before the 7D mk 2 is announced in a few months".
"I know, let's take the firmware from the new 7D2, it won't cost us anything much to port it to the 7D, demand for the 7D will pick back up again and help us clear stocks before we drop the 7D2."

Or am I too cynical?

Canon doesn't sell items on consignment and there is no stock.  They take orders from vendors, most of them pre-paid, then they produce the items and ship them off.  Canon doesn't have to get rid of anything.  That's on the vendor and the vendor orders want their customers want regardless of current stock.

Vendors get special pricing that they later mark-up.  This margin allows them to reduce prices when a new model--aah!  Do I actually have to explain this?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: paul13walnut5 on June 09, 2012, 09:39:01 PM
Quote
The Canon 7D is the only Canon DSLR with 2 processors, and still it doesn't do anything that the 550D doesn't do on video mode.

The 1D series has twin processors.  3, if like the 7D you count the AF processor as an independent processor (the lesser EOS cameras like the 5D2, x0D series have one processor for everything)

The 7D does intermediate ISO stops and full 1080 live output over HDMI.

In stills mode the 7D is quite a different beast altogether.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: MCP on June 10, 2012, 04:33:38 AM
Nowhere on World Wide Web is there confirmation other than CR that firmware 2.0 for 7D is imminent, not on Canon USA/Europe, nor on CPS or their 'News' archives ??

As stated at the begining of the article, this was briefly present on the cpn-europe website. The home page headline graphic displayed a 7D body and the link went to the firmware description. CR's article is a direct copy of the cpn article, which was displayed with a date of April 2012. How do I know, I saw it too!!! Thinking that a new body was announced and 2 new lenses, maybe there was a firmware update for the 7D with the GPS update and maybe a few extras so I checked the site.

It was only up for about an hour, but non the less, it was a Canon press release. If nothing else, it shows Canons intentions for the 7D. Why it was held back, posted and then removed will be a matter of much speculation! But it was there.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: kdsand on June 10, 2012, 04:58:07 AM
This is definitely a step in the right direction from Canon, and even if cynical, it's very welcome.

The Canon 7D is the only Canon DSLR with 2 processors, and still it doesn't do anything that the 550D doesn't do on video mode. There's definitely room for improvement even with just software updates. This an impressive camera hardware wise and if Canon wanted, it could do much more than it does at the moment.

Also, I think this should be the way to go with firmware updates and physical models that last longer, even if we have to pay for the updates, cause it's much more environmental friendly, and people these days spend all the time upgrading for a couple new useless features, and in most cases they don't even ever do anything with the cameras.

Regarding a 7DmkII, do you guys really think that Canon will replace their entire range of DSLRs in the same year? What then, not release anything for another 3 years?

I still believe the core reason for the up date is to keep current owners happy and prime them to eagerly await the 7D?? which apparently is still aways off.
Meaning don't go by a Nikon because your 7D is now even more awesome and just think how great the new 7D?? will be!
Its nice but its not ment to be nice - ultimately its an intelligent stall tactic.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: prsw on June 10, 2012, 05:56:38 AM
As a new 7D owner and looking for a fast card, should I take this in to consideration and buy
a udma7 card to make full use of the higher burst capabilities?

Or will a cheaper card do?
Thinking about a Lexar Professional 600X 32GB.

Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: surfing_geek on June 10, 2012, 05:58:13 AM
Quote from: Canon's Marketing Team
"Oh crap, we've got all these old 7D bodies lying around that aren't selling (because of the 5D2 getting cheaper, or the D3200, K5, NEX-7, or whatever), and we need to get rid of them before the 7D mk 2 is announced in a few months".
"I know, let's take the firmware from the new 7D2, it won't cost us anything much to port it to the 7D, demand for the 7D will pick back up again and help us clear stocks before we drop the 7D2."

Or am I too cynical?


i like that kind of cynical.  let's hope it works!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: candyman on June 10, 2012, 07:58:33 AM
Just wondering...
Is it possible that this firmware update will NOT be released for the 7D and that it was just shown as a teaser of what we can expect from a 7D MKII ?


I wonder, why put it up on a website and then take it off.


These firmware updates items seem to me valid upgrade items for a MKII. That may be announced later this year?


It confuses me as 7D user.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Bob Howland on June 10, 2012, 08:18:38 AM
Quote from: Canon's Marketing Team
"Oh crap, we've got all these old 7D bodies lying around that aren't selling (because of the 5D2 getting cheaper, or the D3200, K5, NEX-7, or whatever), and we need to get rid of them before the 7D mk 2 is announced in a few months".
"I know, let's take the firmware from the new 7D2, it won't cost us anything much to port it to the 7D, demand for the 7D will pick back up again and help us clear stocks before we drop the 7D2."

Or am I too cynical?

Canon doesn't sell items on consignment and there is no stock.  They take orders from vendors, most of them pre-paid, then they produce the items and ship them off.  Canon doesn't have to get rid of anything.  That's on the vendor and the vendor orders want their customers want regardless of current stock.

Vendors get special pricing that they later mark-up.  This margin allows them to reduce prices when a new model--aah!  Do I actually have to explain this?

And how do you know this?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: cnewley on June 10, 2012, 12:44:50 PM
Hey guys, sorry if this has been asked before, but I have two questions. Has anybody seen rumors about the addition of a histogram during video record with the new firmware? And will this update give the Magic Lantern guys a key that they had been looking for to hack the 7D? Thanks!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: RC on June 10, 2012, 01:16:43 PM
Thank you Canon for the firmware upgrade!   I'm most excited about the auto ISO limits and the increased burst rate.

For me this has been one of the more interesting announcements and discussions.   I think Canon is taking a fair risk to release such a bold firmware upgrade to a body which has been around this long.  And most risky, it may (if not already) open a can of worms of "what else can be enabled."  This certainly proves what many of us have always believed and that is how features and technology are, (and can be) available yet held back for reasons we can only speculate--anyone who has rooted a cell phone can relate.

I must admit the increased burst rate does bug me.   Don't get me wrong, I'm excited about the increase, but this is clearly a case of crippling a piece of hardware.   Whereas all the other features are new and required someone to sit down and write the code.

I have no idea how often Canon monitors sites like this but I can't help believe they will more closely watch customer's reaction to this new firmware upgrade.  Will it mostly be perceived as a positive "thank you Canon" upgrade or will it open a of storm of speculation and requests for other things to be enabled and turned on for all bodies?

I don't think anyone is going to forget this upgrade for a long time.


Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 10, 2012, 03:05:46 PM

I must admit the increased burst rate does bug me.   Don't get me wrong, I'm excited about the increase, but this is clearly a case of crippling a piece of hardware.   Whereas all the other features are new and required someone to sit down and write the code.


I think 'crippling' is rather strong. 'Conservative limitations' might be a better way of putting it. Just imagine 4 years ago if they had said it could write 20 RAW in a burst, and as the CF cards were too slow it only achieved 15 - that would have raised a class action and a long and loud reaction.

Canon have taken into account the latest CF card technology and updated the firmware to take advantage of it.

I say 'Well done Canon for designing a product that can move with the time'
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: kdsand on June 10, 2012, 04:50:06 PM
Its a bit difficult but I try to not look a gift horse in the mouth.  :D

To some extent the existance of magic lantern must certainly have made Canon respond to potential back lash if a third party made any of these existing optimizations available to the public.

I am cheap at times but I will gladly pay extra to ensure I have complete functionality and the most up to date software available.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 10, 2012, 04:55:20 PM
Its a bit difficult but I try to not look a gift horse in the mouth.  :D

To some extent the existance of magic lantern must certainly have made Canon respond to potential back lash if a third party made any of these existing optimizations available to the public.

I am cheap at times but I will gladly pay extra to ensure I have complete functionality and the most up to date software available.

That is a bit like saying that you prefer to pay for ACR rather than use the free DPP - nothing wrong with that. Nikon users have to pay so perhaps that is the model you would prefer?

Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: kdsand on June 10, 2012, 05:18:57 PM
Its a bit difficult but I try to not look a gift horse in the mouth.  :D

To some extent the existance of magic lantern must certainly have made Canon respond to potential back lash if a third party made any of these existing optimizations available to the public.

I am cheap at times but I will gladly pay extra to ensure I have complete functionality and the most up to date software available.

That is a bit like saying that you prefer to pay for ACR rather than use the free DPP - nothing wrong with that. Nikon users have to pay so perhaps that is the model you would prefer?

 I don't see it ever coming down to actual choice but I would pay a bit more up front if it could guarantee full optimization support.

 It would be nice if there was more incentive for canon to add feature sets.
I definitely have to give cannon kudos for having decent products that come to market with a reasonably ( surprisingly) few amount of bugs. Releasing an update upgrade for software like this is definitely a double edge sword for a company like Canon. Well that goes for most companies - though cell phone companies seem to try to do everything in their power to screw up o.s. updates.

 I am all for Canon, I think it is awesome.  :-[  Admittedly I have to fight back a bit of fanizm at times.

Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: zampa on June 10, 2012, 05:23:41 PM
Talking abouth the hidden "features", have any of you out there with a 7D tried this:
Take away the lens, pull on the front plastic black cover.
Put camera in manual mode, 1/500 (no f since lens is not on :)
Set the high burst photo mode (8fps).
Insert a CF (but you can do also without, if C.Fn is set properly)
Simply push and keep down the shutter button.
You will hear the familiar 8fps burst sound.
Cover with your hand the viewfinder (so that there is no light coming inside the camera - front is already covered by the cap).
Repeat the burst.
Hear... wtf??? 3fps???
Tested with 10+ Canon 7D, with every kind of firmware. If lens fitted, AF off.
It seems that if the subject is black or there is no light, the camera cpu takes more time to calculate the correct exposure (that is WELL documented inside the user manual, fps reduction in case of difficult exposure).
But if I am in FULL MANUAL I don't need exposure calculation, simply my 8fps.
It could be a non issue, but if u are taking pictures of a black motorbike or during the night or in low level and you need the full fps, that could be not fair.
And I wonder why there are no informations about that over the net (for my job is really an issue!)
Cheers

Marco
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 10, 2012, 05:50:27 PM
I think 'crippling' is rather strong. 'Conservative limitations' might be a better way of putting it.

As far as I see it, crippled is the correct word - Canon doesn't hesitate to advertise weather sealing with (*) your mileage may vary, of course they could do this for other features too.

But crippling a product is not necessarily a bad thing, but standard industry practice. In many non-high-end cpu, there are disabled cores that would work just fine, Intel even managed to introduce a paid feature to re-enable them by software just like Canon did now for free.

Limiting the full potential of the hardware simply gives the manufacturer the opportunity to place and price products according to the market - and now Canon thinks that the 7d needs a feature boost to stay somewhat competitive against Nikon.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Halocastle on June 10, 2012, 05:51:51 PM
Quote from: Canon's Marketing Team
"Oh crap, we've got all these old 7D bodies lying around that aren't selling (because of the 5D2 getting cheaper, or the D3200, K5, NEX-7, or whatever), and we need to get rid of them before the 7D mk 2 is announced in a few months".
"I know, let's take the firmware from the new 7D2, it won't cost us anything much to port it to the 7D, demand for the 7D will pick back up again and help us clear stocks before we drop the 7D2."

Or am I too cynical?

Canon doesn't sell items on consignment and there is no stock.  They take orders from vendors, most of them pre-paid, then they produce the items and ship them off.  Canon doesn't have to get rid of anything.  That's on the vendor and the vendor orders want their customers want regardless of current stock.

Vendors get special pricing that they later mark-up.  This margin allows them to reduce prices when a new model--aah!  Do I actually have to explain this?

And how do you know this?

How do you NOT know this? Where did you go to school?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 10, 2012, 06:38:26 PM
I think 'crippling' is rather strong. 'Conservative limitations' might be a better way of putting it.

As far as I see it, crippled is the correct word - Canon doesn't hesitate to advertise weather sealing with (*) your mileage may vary, of course they could do this for other features too.

But crippling a product is not necessarily a bad thing, but standard industry practice. In many non-high-end cpu, there are disabled cores that would work just fine, Intel even managed to introduce a paid feature to re-enable them by software just like Canon did now for free.

Limiting the full potential of the hardware simply gives the manufacturer the opportunity to place and price products according to the market - and now Canon thinks that the 7d needs a feature boost to stay somewhat competitive against Nikon.

When the 7D came out it met its specifications with the CF technology of its time. It now has updated the firmware, free of charge, to match the current CF technology. This is not a marketing ploy.

Cripling is a very strong word that does not infer what you seem to be saying.

I am sorry to see that your hyper cynacism of anything Canon has got in the way of logic

Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 10, 2012, 07:02:39 PM
I am sorry to see that your hyper cynacism of anything Canon has got in the way of logic

I'm sorry to say you simply ignored what I wrote - I specifically said limiting hardware is standard practice for *any* brand, and you're using this as an opportunity to flame a Canon enthusiast about being cynical towards Canon? Please think again, this doesn't make any sense at all, even if we both aren't sure about the real cause of the original limitation.

But with your current attitude: Whatever you say - I really do hope for you you'll cool down a bit sooner or later. And knowing your strong feelings towards the brand, I'm not taking it personal but as a sign of a committed Canon fan-base.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: theswedishsportsshooter on June 10, 2012, 07:09:02 PM
I think 'crippling' is rather strong.
...
Just imagine 4 years ago if they had said it could write 20 RAW in a burst, and as the CF cards were too slow it only achieved 15 - that would have raised a class action and a long and loud reaction.
...

There is no connection between buffer size and card-speed whatsoever.
If the max buffer size is 15, it takes 15 images to fill the buffer.
if it´s 20, well then you can take 20 images before the buffer is filled.

The impact of the card write speed is how fast the camera can empty the buffer memory, and that impacts how fast you can start to shoot again.
With some really fast card you can "extend" the buffer size.
But that really has to do with the fact that the camera can empty the buffer faster to a fast card, than to a slow one.

There is a major reason to why Canon (and Nikon as well) "cripple" cameras in this way.
They want us to buy more expansive cameras.
It´s just the same thing with the "voice tag function" only found on the 1D-series.
With both 7D and 5D mkII and 5D mkIII you have the necessary microphone on the cameras, so what's needed is only some adjustment of the firmware.
Canon is not implementing this feature only of one simple reason.
They want those needing "voice tagging" to buy the 1D-series.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 10, 2012, 07:34:58 PM
I think 'crippling' is rather strong.
...
Just imagine 4 years ago if they had said it could write 20 RAW in a burst, and as the CF cards were too slow it only achieved 15 - that would have raised a class action and a long and loud reaction.
...

There is no connection between buffer size and card-speed whatsoever.
If the max buffer size is 15, it takes 15 images to fill the buffer.
if it´s 20, well then you can take 20 images before the buffer is filled.


The new firmware does not mention buffer size but IMPROVED RAW MAXIMUM BURST - a totally different issue.

Filling the buffer and emptying are asynchronous processes. If you can empty the buffer faster than the buffer fills then there is no limit to the burst size (apart from filling the card). The buffer doesn't fill up before it starts writing.

The current max burst is 15 RAW before the buffer is full, the new firmware is going to increase this to 26. This is IMO due to the increased write speed of the CF cards

A cause for celebration rather than criticism I think.

Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: dr croubie on June 10, 2012, 07:36:32 PM
For everyone arguing back and forth over the buffer size update, I suggest you read this thread at TDP (http://community.the-digital-picture.com/showthread.php?t=5294&page=8) (if noone's linked to it before). In particular see my post on the last page and the test of the Pretec card.

Basically, the tl;dr of it is that on my 7D, with the crappiest slowest oldest card I could find, I got a RAW buffer size of 20 images before it started slowing down, with a fast card I got 22 images (because the buffer was emptying faster with a faster card). Given how long it took before the camera was usable again after the burst with the Pretec card, I would say that it only managed to write one or maybe 1/2 an image to the card in the 3 seconds before it slowed down, so the buffer should at least be 18-19 images deep.

And the 7D manual states only 15.

So, for one, I think that the rating of 15 shots was conservative at best. Yes, I was pointing at a white wall. Yes, it was only iso100. Yes, if I had the ISO up at 3200 and was pointing at something detailed like a grassy field, the RAW images would be bigger and you'd get less images per buffer.
Still, they could just as easily have written 18 or even 20 for the max buffer depth 3 years ago when it was released, with an "*under optimal conditions" disclaimer. Instead, they were conservative and wrote 15 as quite possibly the absolute minimum under any conditions.
So with no firmware improvements at all, I'd say it's not a rise from 15-25, it's more a rise from 19-25.

Maybe they've done absolutely nothing to the firmware (besides adding support for the new cards), and they're just being more unrealistic with specs, and you need the latest 120MB/s card to get 25 shots, and the rest of us will see no improvements whatsoever?


Now, they haven't unlocked any "hidden ram" or anything. What kind of company puts in 2gb of ram, sells it with the pricetage saying 1gb of ram, and then 3 years later suddenly gives you a gift by unlocking that extra 1gb, for no charge, when they can't get any more money out of you, just to give you a warm fuzzy feeling?
Quote from: Reality
"Hi, welcome to reality, this doesn't happen.
Ever."


What they may have done is just re-written a few algorithms, coding in firmware and a bit of optimisation can go a long way. Maybe before, it waited until it had written a whole RAW file to the card before it released the buffer space to be overwritten, and now it starts overwriting the file in the buffer as it empties? Maybe they've had some coding-efficiency-expert going through and turning every 10 lines of code into 9 lines? It can happen.

As to why they're going to release it to a 3-year-old camera now, I don't know. The only reason they would do it is to shift more units. Because they've got inventory that they need to clear before the 7D2 drops soon? Because the 7D2 is going to take a while and they still need the 7D to compete with the cheaper and in-some-ways better K5 and D7000 for another year? Who knows.

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
When (I hope not 'if') it gets released, i'm first guinea-pig in line.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 10, 2012, 07:59:57 PM
As to why they're going to release it to a 3-year-old camera now, I don't know.

Read this for CF performance

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_wb_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-10294 (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_wb_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-10294)


The 7D is a fast entry level sports camera - hurrah for more, free performance.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: dr croubie on June 10, 2012, 08:06:22 PM
Quote from: Canon's Marketing Team
"Oh crap, we've got all these old 7D bodies lying around that aren't selling (because of the 5D2 getting cheaper, or the D3200, K5, NEX-7, or whatever), and we need to get rid of them before the 7D mk 2 is announced in a few months".
"I know, let's take the firmware from the new 7D2, it won't cost us anything much to port it to the 7D, demand for the 7D will pick back up again and help us clear stocks before we drop the 7D2."

Or am I too cynical?

Canon doesn't sell items on consignment and there is no stock.  They take orders from vendors, most of them pre-paid, then they produce the items and ship them off.  Canon doesn't have to get rid of anything.  That's on the vendor and the vendor orders want their customers want regardless of current stock.

Vendors get special pricing that they later mark-up.  This margin allows them to reduce prices when a new model--aah!  Do I actually have to explain this?

And how do you know this?

How do you NOT know this? Where did you go to school?

Well, I for one have both an Electronic Engineering and Economics degree. (not that I've used the economics degree for everyday work, engineering is more interesting).

Anyway, yes, you're right. Manufacturing on-demand and letting the vendors take the stockpiles is one way of running a manufacturing business. Maybe Canon have no warehouses whatsoever besides how much it takes to load up a truck and then off it goes. It's possible, some companies do it.
But do we know that's how Canon works? Unless anyone here is a Logistics officer for Canon, all of this is speculation.

Maybe they wait until they've got orders for 10,000 units, then they do a run of 10,000. The next 1 unit that gets ordered has to wait for another 9,999 orders before they'll start another run. (which is what you seem to be suggesting).

Maybe for every 10,000 units they make, it costs them as much as the proceeds from 9000 (for example) sales. So as soon as they get 9000 orders, they'll do a run of 10,000, the last 1000 is pure profit that can tide them over to fill orders until they've got another 9000 orders to justify a new run.

Both of those first two options presume a few things: that they are a fiscally very conservative company. In these economic times, it's possible. It guarantees no losses. But it constrains profits. More likely, most companies operate under the next scenario:

Say they still have to sell 9000 units to make the same money back as making 10,000 units. At some point between 1 and 8999 units, there's going to be forecasting, a gamble. If they wait until they've got 5000 orders, then do a run of 10,000, they're taking a gamble that they can sell the other 4000 to break even. In more optimistic times, if they're risk-takers, or if forecasters can see that those 4000 extra will sell 'eventually', maybe they'll lower their point to doing a run of 10,000 when they have 3000 orders, and take a gamble on selling 6000. If they're pessimistic, risk-averse, if the economy is forecast to shrink, they may wait for 8000 orders, do a run of 10,000, hope they can sell at least 1000 more to break even, and they've got another 1000 as buffer stock.

More extremely, they take more gambles and risks, they produce their run of 10,000 before they've even got 1 order. That's what they do for new models, certainly. It's less likely for higher-end models and for older models, the 7D is a bit of both. Maybe they've taken that gamble a few times, and they've got boxes piling up they need to shift. Maybe the 5D3 has killed 7D sales, maybe it was the K5 or D7000 or just another recession. Either way, maybe this firmware is a way to shift those boxes.




And even if it's the first option, that they don't produce those 10,000 until enough vendors have made orders and prepaid for 10,000, and those 10,000 are now sitting in the vendors' warehouses, as you suggest. You don't think those vendors will happily sit on the stock and keep dropping prices in a hope that someone will eventually buy it? Those vendors should know when new models are coming, they have to make room.
Imagine a salesman for Canon, talking to a vendor, "Hi, thanks for ordering those 10,000 7Ds last week, oh by the way, you're going to have to sell them below cost because the 7D mk2 is coming out next week, too bad".

That vendor is not going to be happy. They're going to be more conservative buying the next model, or indeed anything else from Canon. Sure, they'll have to still buy them because the customers want them, but you have to keep your vendors happy, it's called building up a good business relationship.

Imagine then, if Canon annoy someone with real clout, like B+H, too much. B+H may just start putting more and more ads for Nikon on their site, put them up higher when you search by 'most relevant', put Nikon on sale more often, whatever. It happens. You don't make profit in this world without selling to consumers, and if your distributors are much happier selling the competition's product, you won't make much profit.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: DB on June 10, 2012, 08:32:30 PM
My 7D had issues with Sandisk UDMA Extreme CF, Canon didn't want to know, there wasn't a problem.  Forums verified I was not alone.  Not a problem.  I actually bought my T2i for video interviews because I could not depend on 7D and my larger cards (was fine with older 4gb nonUDMA 30mb/s extremes)

Then in fix 1.2.x (3 I think) canon announced they had fixed this problem.  They wouldn't acknowledge the problem, they couldn't fix my camera in service, then they launched a new firmware that proved me and many others were actually correct.

My point is, I hope the new firmware doesn't fuck about with the CF stability my 7D has enjoyed since 1.2.3

Paul, don't worry, that's why there is always eos7d-v201.exe or eos7d-v205.exe ...and so on...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: DB on June 10, 2012, 08:34:17 PM
Read this for CF performance

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_wb_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-10294 (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_wb_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-10294)


The 7D is a fast entry level sports camera - hurrah for more, free performance.

Brian, those results do seem to suggest that it is 99.99% CF card performance and precious little to do with the internal memory buffer
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 10, 2012, 08:41:27 PM
Read this for CF performance

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_wb_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-10294 (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_wb_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-10294)


The 7D is a fast entry level sports camera - hurrah for more, free performance.

Brian, those results do seem to suggest that it is 99.99% CF card performance and precious little to do with the internal memory buffer

It was not me that was talking about internal memory buffer

I was saying that the max burst size depended on how quick it was writing from the buffer in relation to how quick it was filling it.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: crasher8 on June 10, 2012, 10:45:44 PM
There it is again, someone calling the 7D 'entry level'. Like it was a 300D.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: dr croubie on June 10, 2012, 11:14:20 PM
There it is again, someone calling the 7D 'entry level'. Like it was a 300D.

Well, does Canon make a lesser camera that can be considered as a 'sports camera'?
There's the 1D4 and 1DX above it, even the 5D3 may not be aimed at sports but it can certainly be used for it.
You can use lesser cameras like the 60D and 600D for sports, but they're not 'sports cameras'.
Ergo, the 7D is canon's "entry-level sports-camera".
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 11, 2012, 03:13:51 AM
You can use lesser cameras like the 60D and 600D for sports, but they're not 'sports cameras'. Ergo, the 7D is canon's "entry-level sports-camera".

If you're specifically talking of sports, I guess you're correct because the 60d's servo af and af point spread isn't made for action at all. Luckily for me, there are other kinds of sports like chess :-)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: dr croubie on June 11, 2012, 04:34:18 AM
Luckily for me, there are other kinds of sports like chess :-)

Entry-level Chess camera? (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/513740-REG/Lomography_870_35mm_Paper_Pinhole_Camera.html)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: MCP on June 11, 2012, 04:46:47 AM
I think people must have either, not read the cpn technical article on the 7D or forgot about it, it states

Quote
Memory card choices
The Dual “DIGIC 4” processors ensure a level of future proofing for the camera by allowing the use of Mode 6 UDMA Compact Flash cards. Although Mode 6 UDMA cards are not available, it is expected that they will appear later in 2009. When this happens, it is possible the maximum burst capability of the camera will improve.

I am using the 600x speed cards and have a burst rate in normal use of about 24 images and I am sure Canon are aware of this speed increase. I would have thought the press release relates to the slower cards and would then mean with UDMA 6 cards there would be a further improvement in burst rate.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 11, 2012, 05:04:04 AM
Luckily for me, there are other kinds of sports like chess :-)
Entry-level Chess camera? (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/513740-REG/Lomography_870_35mm_Paper_Pinhole_Camera.html)
That's one is great, immediately added it to my all-time favorites archive :-) And it is an excellent reminder that all Canon gear around here being talked about being only good as a paper weight is actually pretty good to begin with.

It's just about the right tool for the job - which might be the paper camera too if you expect it not to make it back in one piece, you can get 85 of these for the price of one 7d.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: ruuneos on June 11, 2012, 12:57:58 PM
When this update will be released, in 1-2 weeks?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: neuroanatomist on June 11, 2012, 12:59:55 PM
Luckily for me, there are other kinds of sports like chess :-)

(http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/media/2011/07/Gamesml-1024x662.jpg) (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2011/07/shall-we-play-a-game)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: kdsand on June 11, 2012, 01:09:24 PM
An expensive set. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: neuroanatomist on June 11, 2012, 01:15:26 PM
An expensive set. ;D ;D

You can rent the Lensrentals Chess set (https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/canon/lenses/supertelephoto/lensrentals-chess-set) for just $9,221.00 per week.

 :P
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 11, 2012, 03:25:27 PM
You can rent the Lensrentals Chess set (https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/canon/lenses/supertelephoto/lensrentals-chess-set) for just $9,221.00 per week.

That's a nice one - it would be interesting how many lenses overlap, so what's really the cost of having all possible L glass for every situation - and what it's physical weight would be.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: AvTvM on June 11, 2012, 03:52:32 PM
That's a nice one - it would be interesting how many lenses overlap, so what's really the cost of having all possible L glass for every situation - and what it's physical weight would be.

that' s an easy one! A Canon Mega-L lineup really only  takes 9 L lenses.

* Fish 8-15 -> 540g, € 1300
* EF 16-35/2.8 -> 635g, € 1300
* TS/E 24/3.5 II -> 780g, € 2000
* 24-70/2.8 II -> 805g, € 2300
* 70-200/2.8 IS II-> 1490g, € 2200
* 180/3.5 Macro -> 1090g, € 1400
* 200-400/4 w/1.4x -> 3000g (?), € 11000 (?)
* 600/4 II -> 3920g, € 12000
* 800/5.6 -> 4500g, €13000
* TK 1.4x III  (no need for 2x, because new Canon bodies cannot AF at f/8 anyway) ... 225g, € 470


Total weight: 16,35 kg ... take a gura gear Kiboko 30L, a large Thinktank roller or a large Lowepro ... it may even pass as carry-on. ;-)

Total street price: € 46,970  = USD  >:(   ... before Canon cash-backs and major volume discount ;-)

that's it. :-)
 
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 11, 2012, 03:57:10 PM
That's a nice one - it would be interesting how many lenses overlap, so what's really the cost of having all possible L glass for every situation - and what it's physical weight would be.

that' s an easy one! A Canon Mega-L lineup really only  takes 9 L lenses.

* Fish 8-15 -> 540g, € 1300
* EF 16-35/2.8 -> 635g, € 1300
* TS/E 24/3.5 II -> 780g, € 2000
* 24-70/2.8 II -> 805g, € 2300
* 70-200/2.8 IS II-> 1490g, € 2200
* 180/3.5 Macro -> 1090g, € 1400
* 200-400/4 w/1.4x -> 3000g (?), € 11000 (?)
* 600/4 II -> 3920g, € 12000
* 800/5.6 -> 4500g, €13000
* TK 1.4x III  (no need for 2x, because new Canon bodies cannot AF at f/8 anyway) ... 225g, € 470


Total weight: 16,35 kg ... take a gura gear Kiboko 30L, a large Thinktank roller or a large Lowepro ... it may even pass as carry-on. ;-)

Total street price: € 46,970  = USD  >:(   ... before Canon cash-backs and major volume discount ;-)

that's it. :-)

Why the slow 200-400? Might as well add the 70-300L. And the slow 2.8's as well? yuk

I love my 135f/2 and 200 f/2 and wouldn't do without them. On ff they are the dogs donuts.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: AvTvM on June 11, 2012, 04:13:26 PM
Why the slow 200-400? Might as well add the 70-300L. And the slow 2.8's as well? yuk
I love my 135f/2 and 200 f/2 and wouldn't do without them. On ff they are the dogs donuts.

AS far as I am concernde: no need for fixed focals,as long as good zooms are available. And anything faster than f/2.8 has too thin DOF on FF anyway. :-)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 11, 2012, 05:37:13 PM
Why the slow 200-400? Might as well add the 70-300L. And the slow 2.8's as well? yuk
I love my 135f/2 and 200 f/2 and wouldn't do without them. On ff they are the dogs donuts.

AS far as I am concernde: no need for fixed focals,as long as good zooms are available. And anything faster than f/2.8 has too thin DOF on FF anyway. :-)

What nonsense you talk
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: RLPhoto on June 11, 2012, 06:14:38 PM
Why the slow 200-400? Might as well add the 70-300L. And the slow 2.8's as well? yuk
I love my 135f/2 and 200 f/2 and wouldn't do without them. On ff they are the dogs donuts.

AS far as I am concernde: no need for fixed focals,as long as good zooms are available. And anything faster than f/2.8 has too thin DOF on FF anyway. :-)

I shoot all primes because I prefer thin DOF.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: kdsand on June 11, 2012, 08:08:00 PM
An expensive set. ;D ;D

You can rent the Lensrentals Chess set (https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/canon/lenses/supertelephoto/lensrentals-chess-set) for just $9,221.00 per week.

 :P
"Sigh"
That would blow both my mortgage payments. :-\
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Jettatore on June 11, 2012, 10:17:56 PM
If this turns out 100% and releases, props to Canon for the extended support.  It's a huge show of faith supporting older products, especially with an extravagant release like this, and should be a long running trend.  My hats off, things like this will keep my arse firmly parked as a Canon fan.

While it's of topic, I think to take this logic a step further, Canon should simply open their firmware to those daring enough to mess with things under the hood.  Even if they stipulate that it breaks warranty or some such, which is I'm sure specifically a big reason why they don't want to do this as that would be hard to track if a firmware hack broke something physically and then the original firmware was flashed back, it's still just the cooler thing to do and I think in general, a much bigger positive for all of photography on the whole compared to that minor downside of occasional bricked cameras.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 12, 2012, 02:08:47 AM
Even if they stipulate that it breaks warranty or some such, which is I'm sure specifically a big reason why they don't want to do this as that would be hard to track if a firmware hack broke something physically and then the original firmware was flashed back

You can already break you camera with magic lantern if you want and then, if it's still somewhat working, reset the bootable flag so no one will notice you ever used ml.

It's like just in the smartphones - the manufacturer wants full control over the firmware because this means controlling the hardware. And the latter is needed to prevent feature-unlocked less expensive models to cannibalize more expensive ones. But in dslrs, it's rather irrational because you for example cannot upgrade your af system by software, only expand on it like magic lantern enabling focus patterns.

Imho they should just release a Canon firmware sdk, add a "void your warranty" trigger and be done with it, gaining lots of new customers. But being realistic, we can be happy Canon still doesn't seem to want to block magic lantern, though they don't support it or even acknowledge there is such a thing.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: K3nt on June 13, 2012, 03:17:28 AM
All this talk about this new firmware has me excited. Anyone knows about possible dates for its release?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: jmalmsten on June 17, 2012, 06:27:51 AM
Reading this article made me remember a list of suggestions I made on my blog when the first rumors came out... ( http://www.jmalmsten.com/2012/04/rumors-for-7d-firmware-update-i-have.html (http://www.jmalmsten.com/2012/04/rumors-for-7d-firmware-update-i-have.html) ) The sneak-reveal that they now did was a bit lackluster, but welcome. But I can't help but clap my hands and sarcastically say "good for you... it only took you, like what? 3 years to get the basics down? And then again only barely. You almost made a real effort there, and I applaud that."

To me it's still quite clear that the 7D was never really meant to be a video-shooter. It was more like a happy accident that started with the 5DII. Why do I say this? Well. Because Canon is clearly just flat out refusing to optimize their camera for video-shooters. Their camcorder-department gave us the C300 and it's 4K successor. And their luke-warm enthusiasm for the DSLR-video-shooters says that they really want us to jump ship as soon as possible towards their actual video-optimized cameras. And stop bothering them to get open their eyes about the obvious potential for a real video-firmware option geared for the motion-shooters.

I feel a bit like when we're ranting about George Lucas refusing to release a decent version of the original trilogy. The discussions on how and why and all that are all well and good, but it's fruitless and futile. George and Canon made their minds up years ago. And no amount of sound reasoning are going to change anything.

Of course I am happy to be proven wrong.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 17, 2012, 07:13:45 AM
And their luke-warm enthusiasm for the DSLR-video-shooters says that they really want us to jump ship as soon as possible towards their actual video-optimized cameras.

Don't look the gift horse in the mouth - at least magic lantern will run even on the 5d3 (even if it'll be some time until then), Canon could just have chosen to disable 3rd party firmware booting from their current camera bodies...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: ruuneos on June 17, 2012, 06:25:14 PM
Anything have come up when this firmware would be released?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 17, 2012, 06:47:45 PM
Anything have come up when this firmware would be released?

I don't think they'll release it before the 5d3 firmware is fixed because Canon will have their people working on and testing  the latter. And the 5d3 update was rumored to be available in May ... you go figure which May :-p

After this, I hope they'll at least update the 60d, 5d2 & 600d to work with the new radio flashes...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: crasher8 on June 17, 2012, 07:17:01 PM
The 7D firmware is a bit more overdue than the 5D3!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 18, 2012, 03:51:34 AM
The 7D firmware is a bit more overdue than the 5D3!

Overdue by what measure? A fixed 5d3 firmware might have some impact on 5d3 sales or even reviews (red af points, slow af point expansion, maybe even some more features to justify $3500), but delaying some more features for the 7d won't make much of a difference except for gps unit sales.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: crasher8 on June 18, 2012, 08:15:01 AM
By measure of launch date.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: AvTvM on June 18, 2012, 11:44:35 AM
By measure of launch date.

+1
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: RLPhoto on June 18, 2012, 11:49:29 AM
By measure of launch date.

+1

+2
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 18, 2012, 12:07:54 PM
I am looking forward to the 7D firmware update - but I am not going to get my knickers in a twist if it is delayed
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: candyman on June 18, 2012, 01:34:04 PM
A delay, I wouldn't be surprised. Isn't that Canon's trademark?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: kdsand on June 18, 2012, 03:09:32 PM
Lol
A evil question - just how upset will every one be if this ends up as only a rumor?  :o

Sorry I couldn't help it. :-[
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: crasher8 on June 18, 2012, 04:16:32 PM
By measure of launch date.

+1

+2


You know, agreeing with me on this forum will lead to this only being a rumor. See, I'm one of those forum noobs with a low post count who simpy cannot know anything about anything.

Now if you'll excuse me I need to go and shoot,edit, print, mat, frame and sell more photography.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: crasher8 on June 18, 2012, 10:44:49 PM
And the mighty FF firmware wins again! (5D3 firmware just released) Well 7D users, we've waited this long what's another month or two with high ISO noise
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: wickidwombat on June 19, 2012, 12:57:43 AM
I bet its going to be as impressive as the new 5Dmk3 firmware...

it will recognise the 40mm f2.8 :o
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Wideopen on June 19, 2012, 01:45:15 AM
The 7D firmware is a bit more overdue than the 5D3!

Agreed
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: candyman on June 19, 2012, 02:11:35 AM
I bet its going to be as impressive as the new 5Dmk3 firmware...

it will recognise the 40mm f2.8 :o


Yes, I am sure that is causing the delay. The might work on adding support for the single focul length EF40mm f/2.8 STM - on top of the already mentioned updates on page 1 here.


And, does the 7D support the new 18-135 STM?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: dr croubie on June 19, 2012, 02:55:32 AM
I'm wondering what they mean by "support" the 40mm f/2.8.
Does that mean embedding the lens profile for the auto-CA correction and such, or does it need new firmware to be able to drive the STMotor?

I'm hoping it's not the latter, because then it theoretically wouldn't work on any other bodies either (and I saw the AF work on a 600D last night), i'll find out tonight maybe if it works on an EOS 3.

So i'm presuming that they just mean adding in the lens profiles and such?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: AvTvM on June 19, 2012, 03:59:17 AM
I bet its going to be as impressive as the new 5Dmk3 firmware...
it will recognise the 40mm f2.8 :o

exactly!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: ruuneos on June 19, 2012, 04:31:00 AM
So now the 5D3 firmware update have released, are we going to see 7D firmware in 1-4wks?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: poko2121 on June 20, 2012, 07:21:19 PM
So now the 5D3 firmware update have released, are we going to see 7D firmware in 1-4wks?
I hope 1 and not 4
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: ruuneos on June 21, 2012, 06:38:11 AM
When this update now comes probably in next month?? does 7D then support STM lenses?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 21, 2012, 07:06:23 AM
When this update now comes probably in next month

We could take bets - my money is on the 7d firmware released after the "real" 5d3 firmware update fixing the black dots in af servo and such. And *maybe* then they'll update the 60d a little because it's newer than the 7d and "current" due to the 60da - hope dies last :-o
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 21, 2012, 01:20:43 PM
When this update now comes probably in next month

We could take bets - my money is on the 7d firmware released after the "real" 5d3 firmware update fixing the black dots in af servo and such. And *maybe* then they'll update the 60d a little because it's newer than the 7d and "current" due to the 60da - hope dies last :-o

50d and 60Da have just had their firmware upgraded
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 21, 2012, 01:58:07 PM
50d and 60Da have just had their firmware upgraded

You're speaking of the fixed Greek menus ?!? ... and some people say I'm sarcastic :-p
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 21, 2012, 03:55:19 PM
50d and 60Da have just had their firmware upgraded

You're speaking of the fixed Greek menus ?!? ... and some people say I'm sarcastic :-p

You dont understand English humour either
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 21, 2012, 06:13:07 PM
You dont understand English humour either

:-)) it's just that I don't understand your humor, maybe because there's none involved. But if you say you're the representation of English (British, American, ...) humor, wow, now that's self-confidence for you - there might be even other words expanding self-confidence. You have my admiration!

Definitely English - but I dont claim to be representative.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Marsu42 on June 21, 2012, 06:14:15 PM
You dont understand English humour either

:-)) it's just that I don't understand your humor, maybe because there's none involved. But if you say you're the representation of English (British, American, ...) humor, wow, now that's self-confidence for you - there might be even other words expanding self-confidence. You have my admiration!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: paul13walnut5 on June 21, 2012, 07:19:27 PM
Is there an English humour?  English language humour?  British Humour maybe?

Is it a bit like Chris Hoy being a Scottish Olympiad?

Anyway who gives a ferk about greek firmware upgrades - they can't afford cameras just now.  Just give us audio levels and lower noise on the 7D and you can all laugh at any jokes you want.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: poko2121 on June 21, 2012, 07:47:15 PM

Anyway who gives a ferk about greek firmware upgrades - they can't afford cameras just now.  Just give us audio levels and lower noise on the 7D and you can all laugh at any jokes you want.
lol very funny +1
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 22, 2012, 03:16:21 AM
Is there an English humour?  English language humour?  British Humour maybe?

English as from England. Po faced humour

Th Romans got it right by building a wall as they didn't like the Glaswegians kissing them
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: candyman on June 22, 2012, 12:06:26 PM
Th Romans got it right by building a wall as they didn't like the Glaswegians kissing them


God knows who the Romans already kissed. The went all over Europe
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: paul13walnut5 on June 22, 2012, 01:39:56 PM
You never had a kiss like a Glasgow Kiss!

Still not getting what is english humour.    I can think of british humour, I can even think of Scottish humour up to a point, can't really place a unique Englishness in humour, except perhaps 'Vicar of Dibly'.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: kdsand on June 22, 2012, 01:57:30 PM
Th Romans got it right by building a wall as they didn't like the Glaswegians kissing them


God knows who the Romans already kissed. The went all over Europe

Don't forget Romans 1st kissed the Greeks ( who commonly kiss(ed) goats ).  :o :-\ :-\ :-[
sorry to any Greek friends
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: MCP on June 28, 2012, 02:46:21 AM
The 7D firmware V2 announcement is back on cpn-europes website http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/firmware_update_to_enhance_EOS_7D.do (http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/firmware_update_to_enhance_EOS_7D.do)

Exactly the same as the leaked April bulletin but now dated June 2012
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: dr croubie on June 28, 2012, 02:52:30 AM
The 7D firmware V2 announcement is back on cpm-europes website http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/firmware_update_to_enhance_EOS_7D.do (http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/firmware_update_to_enhance_EOS_7D.do)

Exactly the same as the leaked April bulletin but now dated June 2012

Wooo!
(although still no actual files).

First they started announcing lenses that didn't appear for years later, then they switched onto announcing bodies that take nearly a year to materialise.
Now they're announcing firmware that's not available straight away ... ??? :o :o :o
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: MCP on June 28, 2012, 02:58:47 AM
THe home page of cpn-europe also now shows 2 further articles on the 7D, these have been available for awhile! I assume, with the announcement, they are pushing the 7D!

The previous main headlines were on the 1DX and 5DIII firmware update!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: MCP on June 28, 2012, 04:07:22 AM
I have just been looking through the cpn-europe technical article http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/eos7d.do (http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/eos7d.do) It seems that many of the menus have been redesigned e.g.
(http://cpn.canon-europe.com/files/product/cameras/eos_7d/caption_001_thumb.jpg)

and a new one added to the autofocus menu:

AF WIZARD
It is also possible to register a set of AI Servo settings that can be recalled using either the Depth-of-field Preview button or the Lens AF Stop button. A new ‘AF Wizard’ guides you through the registration of the four AF Custom Functions registering the AF area selection mode, setting up AI Servo tracking sensitivity, setting AF priority for the first and second image and choosing the AF tracking method. This makes it easy to understand the AF settings and gives the option to set them in a logical order.

So it seems that a lot more has actually been done than at first meets the eye!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: briansquibb on June 28, 2012, 04:13:25 AM
I have just been looking through the cpn-europe technical article http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/eos7d.do (http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/eos7d.do) It seems that many of the menus have been redesigned e.g.
(http://cpn.canon-europe.com/files/product/cameras/eos_7d/caption_001_thumb.jpg)

and a new one added to the autofocus menu:

AF WIZARD
It is also possible to register a set of AI Servo settings that can be recalled using either the Depth-of-field Preview button or the Lens AF Stop button. A new ‘AF Wizard’ guides you through the registration of the four AF Custom Functions registering the AF area selection mode, setting up AI Servo tracking sensitivity, setting AF priority for the first and second image and choosing the AF tracking method. This makes it easy to understand the AF settings and gives the option to set them in a logical order.

So it seems that a lot more has actually been done than at first meets the eye!

That reminds me of the menu in the 1DS2 ...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: MCP on June 28, 2012, 04:51:25 AM
lol, ignore my last post! They seem to be already present! I've just never used them in that way  ::) My bad!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: helloseth on July 24, 2012, 10:08:13 AM
Does anyone know if this new v2 firmware will work with the 'barcode' version of the 7D?  We have one of each, and use the barcode one with the bluetooth adapter and a bluetooth barcode reader to read id badges.

Looked around the various reports, but seen no mention of it.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Sparrow on August 02, 2012, 10:17:12 AM
So, it's August now  ;D Where can I download V2?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: crasher8 on August 03, 2012, 10:45:47 AM
So, it's August now  ;D Where can I download V2?

It's been said that it launches on the 7th.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: Sparrow on August 03, 2012, 11:51:58 AM
It's been said that it launches on the 7th.

Your word in God's ear  ;) Where did you hear that?
Title: Da Mayor says
Post by: crasher8 on August 04, 2012, 09:12:08 AM
Those who know don't tell and those that tell don't know
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: eenoog on August 06, 2012, 10:22:58 PM
Well... it's there now! (just downloaded it)
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d/#DriversAndSoftware (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d/#DriversAndSoftware)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: K3nt on August 28, 2012, 08:56:19 AM
Been using v2 for a few weeks now and I *LOVE* the longer burst for action and sports. Haven't played around much with any of the other "new" features but I've had 0 problems with this update, very nice.  ;D Yay Canon!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
Post by: joshmurrah on August 28, 2012, 09:20:41 AM
The burst rate is amazing for sure... I tried mine out after the upgrade, and it took 30 (!!) RAW bursts before slowing.