canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on June 22, 2012, 07:24:05 AM

Title: Announcement Day July 23, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Canon Rumors on June 22, 2012, 07:24:05 AM
First mention
We received the first mention of the next Canon product announcement date. I’m told the date is pretty solid, but as always, Canon can move things around at the last minute.

It’s expected we’ll see a new mirrorless system announced as well as a few lenses. We probably won’t see new full sized EOS cameras or PowerShots announced until August or September.

cr

Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Mick on June 22, 2012, 08:04:10 AM
Lets hope the 200-400 f4 is one of the len's announced. I need one for October as im off to the forest to shoot bears, with a camera not a gun.

Mick
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: adhocphotographer on June 22, 2012, 09:03:37 AM
im off to the forest to shoot bears, with a camera not a gun.

haha good luck!:)
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: gmrza on June 22, 2012, 09:38:41 AM
Lets hope the 200-400 f4 is one of the len's announced. I need one for October as im off to the forest to shoot bears, with a camera not a gun.

Mick

400 + 1.4x is not enough for close ups at a safe distance of bears in the wild.

You need 700mm or more in glass.

Doesn't that depend on your definition of "safe"?
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Stuart on June 22, 2012, 10:00:31 AM
The lenses will surly be new ones to go with the mirroless system if that's what it is so, a pancake, a short zoom and a longer zoom would match others.
So much to speculate on as its a new line - what sensor size is my first question?
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: goodmane on June 22, 2012, 10:11:15 AM
Off topic a bit but wondering if this is ever going to show up e.g. in the mirrorless from Canon. OR does everyone who wants this use an eye-fi card. Personally I just want to be able to make an ftp link to my camera.

Do any of the recent rebels or compacts from Canon have wifi and sharing capabilities? Am I the only one who thinks getting your photos off your camera shouldn't involve taking out your memory card or am I just lazy?

I recently bought an android phone and what with es file explorer (essentially like explorer in windows combined with media playback) and swiftp (ftp server on your phone, with password set up etc) it is never EVER necessary to tether my phone to the computer....

I would love this on my 5D or a mirrorless. For that matter, I'd like to be able to load to Picasa...
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: simonxu11 on June 22, 2012, 10:16:48 AM
The lenses will surly be new ones to go with the mirroless system if that's what it is so, a pancake, a short zoom and a longer zoom would match others.
So much to speculate on as its a new line - what sensor size is my first question?
I hope it's APS-C, but I don't think Canon will give us any surprise, most probably the 1.85X from G1X
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: transpo1 on June 22, 2012, 10:18:01 AM
Hope they don't hobble the video on this- if there's no shutter, there is a lot of possibility where video is concerned.

Canon, you will sell tons of these things and lenses if you at least match the video quality of a 5DIII- I will pre-order now if you give us that.

Someone send this to Canon, please   ;)

P.S. Can anyone here speak to the video quality on the G1X?
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: mws on June 22, 2012, 10:21:20 AM
Off topic a bit but wondering if this is ever going to show up e.g. in the mirrorless from Canon. OR does everyone who wants this use an eye-fi card. Personally I just want to be able to make an ftp link to my camera.

Do any of the recent rebels or compacts from Canon have wifi and sharing capabilities? Am I the only one who thinks getting your photos off your camera shouldn't involve taking out your memory card or am I just lazy?

I recently bought an android phone and what with es file explorer (essentially like explorer in windows combined with media playback) and swiftp (ftp server on your phone, with password set up etc) it is never EVER necessary to tether my phone to the computer....

I would love this on my 5D or a mirrorless. For that matter, I'd like to be able to load to Picasa...

Just a note, not many people know, when you use the FTP on eye-fi cards it goes through eye-fi's servers first, and apparently takes a very long time.  They have some new app for iphone/android that works with the cards. Don't know much about it though.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: preppyak on June 22, 2012, 10:25:24 AM
Canon, you will sell tons of these things and lenses if you at least match the video quality of a 5DIII- I will pre-order now if you give us that.
Well, if you want moire-less video, they might be able to do that. But, you obviously won't be getting the shallow depth of field or the general look of the 5dIII if its an APS-C or smaller sensor.

As for the G1X...well, I wouldnt get your hopes up video wise

http://www.eoshd.com/content/6841/canon-g1x-video-samples-digic-5-im-not-impressed (http://www.eoshd.com/content/6841/canon-g1x-video-samples-digic-5-im-not-impressed)
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: EchoLocation on June 22, 2012, 10:31:23 AM
If this is Full Frame and under $2500 I would crap myself in shock and happiness and preorder one without even thinking. :P :P
Unfortunately, I think it will be the sensor from the G1X.
I was very happy to see the 1.85x sensor in the G1X, but for a mirrorless system, i'm full frame or bust. Since getting my 5D Classic I'm in love with Full Frame like it's film era photography and I'm not going back.
I really hope that there is 3 models/grades of the Canon Mirrorless system as has been talked about before. G1X sensor size being the entry level, 1.6x/APS-C being the prosumer/upgrade, and FF being the pro version. This would be groundbreaking and awesome. If Canon plans to do this, I hope they announce it soon before I switch to the(hopefully soon to come) D600. This is one time where I think announcing products in development would really help the brand.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: TTMartin on June 22, 2012, 10:31:34 AM
Allright fellow canonites! Prepare for some more disappointment.  ;D

I may be easy, but, I haven't been disappointed.

Ok, I am easy, but, that is besides the point.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: unfocused on June 22, 2012, 10:42:04 AM
Lets hope the 200-400 f4 is one of the len's announced. I need one for October as im off to the forest to shoot bears, with a camera not a gun.

Mick

400 + 1.4x is not enough for close ups at a safe distance of bears in the wild.

You need 700mm or more in glass.

Doesn't that depend on your definition of "safe"?

Hah! Reminds me of my favorite bear safety tip from the folks at the National Park Service in Yellowstone: "Bear spray is not used like insect repellent and is not a substitute for common sense."
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: transpo1 on June 22, 2012, 10:50:00 AM
Canon, you will sell tons of these things and lenses if you at least match the video quality of a 5DIII- I will pre-order now if you give us that.
Well, if you want moire-less video, they might be able to do that. But, you obviously won't be getting the shallow depth of field or the general look of the 5dIII if its an APS-C or smaller sensor.

As for the G1X...well, I wouldnt get your hopes up video wise

http://www.eoshd.com/content/6841/canon-g1x-video-samples-digic-5-im-not-impressed (http://www.eoshd.com/content/6841/canon-g1x-video-samples-digic-5-im-not-impressed)

Yeah, that's what I meant- can't get the shallow DOF full frame look but it would be nice to get really clean, crisp, moire-less video.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Bob Howland on June 22, 2012, 11:12:28 AM
Lets hope the 200-400 f4 is one of the len's announced. I need one for October as im off to the forest to shoot bears, with a camera not a gun.

Mick

Where are you going? In Upstate New York State, where I live, October is prime time for hunting bears with guns but not cameras.

I'm just afraid that the Canon 200-400 will be so expensive that the Nikon 200-400 plus a D800 (or maybe a D400) will still be cheaper.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Ricku on June 22, 2012, 11:46:51 AM
Allright fellow canonites! Prepare for some more disappointment.  ;D
The disappointment will definitely reach new heights with this camera, since so many are hoping for full frame or at least APS-C.

I'm hoping for full frame too, but I'm fully expecting a G1X-type sensor or some other crappy bs. Canon is not the innovative and exciting company they used to be.  :P

Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: maxxevv on June 22, 2012, 12:32:04 PM

I don't know about you, but my definition of safe is around the 50 meters/yards mark - the "half a football field pitch" length. I've never seen anyone recommend anything closer as being "safe".

Not unless you were in a car with the engine left on idle ....   

Or you have 300-400 meters between you and the bear with some ready -to-scram car or secure shelter to run to ...  anything under that is definitely not safe if you have big camera gear at hand ! 
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: 8minutestorm on June 22, 2012, 01:10:22 PM
I'd like to see a GF1 type of camera with normal/wide fast pancake lens from canon.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: briansquibb on June 22, 2012, 01:43:34 PM

I don't know about you, but my definition of safe is around the 50 meters/yards mark - the "half a football field pitch" length. I've never seen anyone recommend anything closer as being "safe".

Not unless you were in a car with the engine left on idle ....   

Or you have 300-400 meters between you and the bear with some ready -to-scram car or secure shelter to run to ...  anything under that is definitely not safe if you have big camera gear at hand !

The bears refer to cyclists as meals on wheels
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: TW on June 22, 2012, 02:16:57 PM
Lets hope the 200-400 f4 is one of the len's announced. I need one for October as im off to the forest to shoot bears, with a camera not a gun.

Mick

400 + 1.4x is not enough for close ups at a safe distance of bears in the wild.

You need 700mm or more in glass.

Doesn't that depend on your definition of "safe"?

I don't know about you, but my definition of safe is around the 50 meters/yards mark - the "half a football field pitch" length. I've never seen anyone recommend anything closer as being "safe".

Aw, shucks. Here in East Tennessee, we hunt bears with slingshots and a pocket knife. Remember, Dan'l Boone kilt a bear with his bare hands... ::)
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: nonac on June 22, 2012, 02:26:49 PM
The danger factor depends on the type of bear as well. For example, brown bears are much more dangerous than black bears.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: HeWhoShoots on June 22, 2012, 02:45:43 PM
The danger factor depends on the type of bear as well. For example, brown bears are much more dangerous than black bears.

False. Black bear.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: unfocused on June 22, 2012, 03:10:43 PM
The danger factor depends on the type of bear as well. For example, brown bears are much more dangerous than black bears.

False. Black bear.

Either way you're dead.

Best advice, always go with someone slower than you. You can't outrun the bear, but you don't have to. You just have to outrun the person you are with. :)
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Mick on June 22, 2012, 04:26:57 PM
I've got loads of shots of bears with everything from a 200 to a 500 so the 200/400 plus extender and 7d is all I need. Got a mk4 as well. Best stuff is when the salmon runs, bears are so interested in food they ignore you. Got a great head shot this year with me lying in a river grizzly lying in the water staring at me pin sharp as well only a tiny crop. 500 prime and 7d, but i had to sell the big prime for a ridiculous profit.

What we do for the shot. A guy I met has a head shot of a grizzly coming out the water so only its head shows, salmon in its mouth, blood pouring from it shaking it, salmon eggs in mid air being caught by a seagull in Alaska. Amazing taken from a boat done with a 7d 300 prime and 1/4 extender.He got it in a top French magazine. Best I've seen in years. But I'm afraid I'll be disappointed and canon will again delay it. I need it to go deer shooting in autumn during the rut and European wolves later in the year white horses next spring time. I need the lens.....

Mick
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Saabiar on June 22, 2012, 05:30:11 PM
2 species

brown and Griz are the same thing, that is all.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Greatland on June 22, 2012, 05:31:36 PM
Lets hope the 200-400 f4 is one of the len's announced. I need one for October as im off to the forest to shoot bears, with a camera not a gun.

Mick

400 + 1.4x is not enough for close ups at a safe distance of bears in the wild.

You need 700mm or more in glass.
I will be in Katmai in late August to shoot bears...I always take the biggest lens that I have with me, my 500.....but I also take my 100-400 along with my extenders.  I have gotten a lot of great shots with my 100-400 with the 1.4x and have been plenty close to the bears on many occasions to get great shots....having said that if I had an 800 I would never go there without it, with or without the extender....on the MK IV that gives you a lot of distance.  Really depends on where you go and just how close you can get to the bears....I really prefer to be able to get within 50 yds of the bears....makes for some awesome stuff!
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: kdsand on June 22, 2012, 07:34:41 PM
Reminds me of the fellow who had his gear chewed up by a bear last month (there abouts). It chewed up a new 400mm - so even 400 is not long enough when he comes up to you from behind.  :o  :D
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Bob Howland on June 22, 2012, 08:16:42 PM
Reminds me of the fellow who had his gear chewed up by a bear last month (there abouts). It chewed up a new 400mm - so even 400 is not long enough when he comes up to you from behind.  :o  :D

If you're talking about the one on the lensrental.com blog, it was a 600.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: kdsand on June 22, 2012, 09:50:44 PM


If you're talking about the one on the lensrental.com blog, it was a 600.

That's the one.
Lens & tripod got gnawed on. :D
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: pdirestajr on June 23, 2012, 12:55:01 AM
Isn't the mirrorless "ILC" category basically an evolution of the Point-and-shoot category? Why are so many people throwing around the "full frame" term in the same sentence, and making statements like, "FF or bust for me!", or,
"Another disappointment from Canon"....

Why will anyone be shocked or complain when it is not FF? Maybe there will be a "higher end" version too, but isn't one of those Ashton Kutcher mini fashion cameras also a "high-end" model???

Y'all new to relaxo.

And while I'm on a rant, why do people consider 35mm "full-frame" to be a "Pro" size? My EOS Rebel G is plastic all the way with 3 focusing points and a FULL FRAME image area!

FF is just another size, it ain't the holy grail.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Ricku on June 23, 2012, 02:57:51 AM
Isn't the mirrorless "ILC" category basically an evolution of the Point-and-shoot category? Why are so many people throwing around the "full frame" term in the same sentence, and making statements like, "FF or bust for me!"
.........
Stop. See Leica M9 / upcoming M10.

A highly desirable camera at a very undesirable price. The camera is a little bit bigger than other mirrorless cameras, but still smaller and lighter than a DSLR, and the lenses are fairly small too.

If Canon can make a camera like this with an "affordable" pricetag (around 3.5K instead of Leicas 7K), it will be a huge success! Especially among people who wants to go mirrorless without sacrificing image quality, thin DOF capabilities and high ISO performance.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Albi86 on June 23, 2012, 04:05:44 AM
Isn't the mirrorless "ILC" category basically an evolution of the Point-and-shoot category? Why are so many people throwing around the "full frame" term in the same sentence, and making statements like, "FF or bust for me!", or,
"Another disappointment from Canon"....

Why will anyone be shocked or complain when it is not FF? Maybe there will be a "higher end" version too, but isn't one of those Ashton Kutcher mini fashion cameras also a "high-end" model???

Y'all new to relaxo.

And while I'm on a rant, why do people consider 35mm "full-frame" to be a "Pro" size? My EOS Rebel G is plastic all the way with 3 focusing points and a FULL FRAME image area!

FF is just another size, it ain't the holy grail.

Many people would argue that the bigger the better when it comes to sensors.

Also, mirrorless cameras are probably the future. Less mechanical parts means fewer tech limitations, minor bulk, minor production costs, and so on. One day not very far they will take over the market same as digital made with film. So it's cool to know "which death we're going to die".
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: AvTvM on June 23, 2012, 08:30:52 AM
Isn't the mirrorless "ILC" category basically an evolution of the Point-and-shoot category? Why are so many people throwing around the "full frame" term in the same sentence, and making statements like, "FF or bust for me!"
.........
Stop. See Leica M9 / upcoming M10.

A highly desirable camera at a very undesirable price. The camera is a little bit bigger than other mirrorless cameras, but still smaller and lighter than a DSLR, and the lenses are fairly small too.

If Canon can make a camera like this with an "affordable" pricetag (around 3.5K instead of Leicas 7K), it will be a huge success! Especially among people who wants to go mirrorless without sacrificing image quality, thin DOF capabilities and high ISO performance.

exactly.
Yes, I want something like a 5D3 ... just in a compact mirrorless package.
No, I do not want to make any sacrifices in terms of IQ, AF, speed and performance.
No, I do not want Leicas yesteryear anachronistic rangefinder manual focus stuff.
And ... I definitely do not want to pay Leica prices for it.

Best thing is: such a camera can be made today. Even by Canon, if we - the market - push 'em hard enough.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Stevo2008 on June 23, 2012, 10:10:10 AM
My EOS Rebel G is plastic all the way with 3 focusing points and a FULL FRAME image area!

Good point! A new full-frame DSLR in a Rebel G body wouldn't be any larger than some mirrorless out there.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: preppyak on June 23, 2012, 11:14:04 AM
 
Best thing is: such a camera can be made today. Even by Canon, if we - the market - push 'em hard enough.
true, but I'm not sure I agree that the market is large enough to make it very cheap. For people who use the camera for several hours at a time or who have large tele lenses, the ergonomics would suck and they wouldn't use it. So cutting out that audience raises the price. And full frame raises the cost, so the audience was limited already.

We see that with the high end L glass, canon can make any item awesome for a niche market, but it cost a LOT to get it. I'd like one for more portable applications, but, I doubt I'd pay the premium. And I'd doubt it releases at 1500-2000
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Don Haines on June 23, 2012, 12:19:58 PM
"New and Inovative" does not mean "more of the same"

The first digital cameras were 320 by 200 pixels in 16 colours. That is a laughable resolution. At the time, some of us said to wait and see, the resolution would become better than 35mm film. Who's laughing now?

Digital is not film. To treat it like film is to apply restrictions to it that need not apply. To expect that an optical viewfinder technology is the best solution for a digital camera is flawed logic. Look at the latest generation of Apple products.... the Retina display is made up of finer pixels than the eye can detect.... this technology will give you as good of a viewfinder as optical because it is the human eye that is the limiting factor..... not the optics and not the display.

The digital viewfinder has a multitude of advantages over the optical viewfinder. First, by leaving it in the same spot as the optical viewfinder we can retain a familiar form factor yet eliminate most of the mechanicals of the camera... no more shutter... longer battery life, longer camera life... and you can adjust brightness/contrast/gamma on a digital viewfinder... try that on optical!

By putting an additional digital viewfinder on the back of the camera, the 3" or so tilt/swivel/touch screen, we open up a lot of new possibilities to see the image and control the camera.

And who says that the viewfinder has to be on the cameras? Ever hear of tethered shooting? I use it a lot for astrophotography.... and it's great for bird pictures too, set the camera up near the nest and step WAY back... How long before there is a wireless interface to the camera and you can use a smart phone or tablet?

Mirrorless is the way of the future. Don't expect the first ones out to be the "best camera ever", but just watch how soon they eclipse APSC and full frame...
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: briansquibb on June 23, 2012, 12:36:07 PM
"New and Inovative" does not mean "more of the same"

The first digital cameras were 320 by 200 pixels in 16 colours. That is a laughable resolution. At the time, some of us said to wait and see, the resolution would become better than 35mm film. Who's laughing now?

Digital is not film. To treat it like film to apply restrictions to it that need not apply. To expect that an optical viewfinder technology is the best solution for a digital camera is flawed logic. Look at the latest generation of Apple products.... the Retina display is made up of finer pixels than the eye can detect.... this technology will give you as good of a viewfinder as optical because it is the human eye that is the limiting factor..... not the optics and not the display.

The digital viewfinder has a multitude of advantages over the optical viewfinder. First, by leaving it in the same spot as the optical viewfinder we can retain a familiar form factor yet eliminate most of the mechanicals of the camera... no more shutter... longer battery life, longer camera life... and you can adjust brightness/contrast/gamma on a digital viewfinder... try that on optical!

By putting an additional digital viewfinder on the back of the camera, the 3" or so tilt/swivel/touch screen, we open up a lot of new possibilities to see the image and control the camera.

And who says that the viewfinder has to be on the cameras? Ever hear of tethered shooting? I use it a lot for astrophotography.... and it's great for bird pictures too, set the camera up near the nest and step WAY back... How long before there is a wireless interface to the camera and you can use a smart phone or tablet?

Mirrorless is the way of the future. Don't expect the first ones out to be the "best camera ever", but just watch how soon they eclipse APSC and full frame...

My D30 has 3mps and 3AF points :)

Tethered shooting is rather old hat - I have been using it since 2009 for macro work when my camera was attached to the PC with a 26" monitor (4:3) There was talk a couple of years ago of wireless USB being the way foward - but never happened as bluetooth took the steam out of the initiative. Luckily as it happens as it was dead easy to hack into.

APS-C will be standard in P&S soon so the 'real' cameras will have to have something better.

Interesting that Fuji still sell a MF rangfinder (120/220 film). I wouldn't bet against a prototype digital version of it being made somewhere

Once MF sensors get faster I would not bet against MF DSLR's becoming popular - like the Pentax 645 at 4fps would create an interesting alternative to the D800.

Mirrorless? Well maybe, there are tech issues there which would have to be resolved for the non comsumer bodies.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Albi86 on June 23, 2012, 12:41:23 PM
"New and Inovative" does not mean "more of the same"

The first digital cameras were 320 by 200 pixels in 16 colours. That is a laughable resolution. At the time, some of us said to wait and see, the resolution would become better than 35mm film. Who's laughing now?

Digital is not film. To treat it like film is to apply restrictions to it that need not apply. To expect that an optical viewfinder technology is the best solution for a digital camera is flawed logic. Look at the latest generation of Apple products.... the Retina display is made up of finer pixels than the eye can detect.... this technology will give you as good of a viewfinder as optical because it is the human eye that is the limiting factor..... not the optics and not the display.

The digital viewfinder has a multitude of advantages over the optical viewfinder. First, by leaving it in the same spot as the optical viewfinder we can retain a familiar form factor yet eliminate most of the mechanicals of the camera... no more shutter... longer battery life, longer camera life... and you can adjust brightness/contrast/gamma on a digital viewfinder... try that on optical!

By putting an additional digital viewfinder on the back of the camera, the 3" or so tilt/swivel/touch screen, we open up a lot of new possibilities to see the image and control the camera.

And who says that the viewfinder has to be on the cameras? Ever hear of tethered shooting? I use it a lot for astrophotography.... and it's great for bird pictures too, set the camera up near the nest and step WAY back... How long before there is a wireless interface to the camera and you can use a smart phone or tablet?

Mirrorless is the way of the future. Don't expect the first ones out to be the "best camera ever", but just watch how soon they eclipse APSC and full frame...

I agree with your analysis ;)
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Rocky on June 23, 2012, 01:44:07 PM
My EOS Rebel G is plastic all the way with 3 focusing points and a FULL FRAME image area!

Good point! A new full-frame DSLR in a Rebel G body wouldn't be any larger than some mirrorless out there.
You cannot use the size of film camera as reference. Olympus is well known to make the camera as small as possible in the film days and digital now. Just look at the Om-D 50M. It is the size of the old OM4. But it only has a M4/3 sensor. So you just cannot expect to have a APS-C or FFsensor in the same size body as a film camera.

Even Leica cannot do it. The size of M8 or M9 is bigger than the M4.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: kdsand on June 23, 2012, 05:03:03 PM
Wireless tethering to your phone or tablet & then we will not even need a built in lcd screen. Then we just need a really good digital viewfinder built in or better yet an adjustable viewing module.
And while we're at it lets make the viewfinders a bit bigger across the board.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Ziggy on June 23, 2012, 05:40:06 PM
Lets hope the 200-400 f4 is one of the len's announced. I need one for October as im off to the forest to shoot bears, with a camera not a gun.

Mick

400 + 1.4x is not enough for close ups at a safe distance of bears in the wild.

You need 700mm or more in glass.

Doesn't that depend on your definition of "safe"?

Safe is having someone with you that you can out run.  I still hope it is the 200-400, for I will be shooting Bears as well, but they come from Chicago...
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: rpt on June 24, 2012, 12:04:35 AM
Safe is having someone with you that you can out run.  I still hope it is the 200-400, for I will be shooting Bears as well, but they come from Chicago...

LOL

Thank you. That was a good start to my morning.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: elflord on June 24, 2012, 12:32:44 AM
Quote
If Canon can make a camera like this with an "affordable" pricetag (around 3.5K instead of Leicas 7K), it will be a huge success! Especially among people who wants to go mirrorless without sacrificing image quality, thin DOF capabilities and high ISO performance.

The biggest plus of FF mirrorless would be that you could adapt pretty much any lens that has ever been made and get the full fov. APS-C and m43 take normal length and tele lenses quite well, but the options for adapted wide angle lenses are limited.

Other than that, it would have the downside that it would mean the native lenses would all have to be larger, so the camera would be larger and heavier than m43, Sony or other contenders.

The Leica is typically used with normal length primes. If you want to use a fast zoom, it will be big (the m43 12-35mm f/2.8 zoom is 300gm)

Anyway, this strikes me as a bit academic. My money is on Canon releasing two slow zooms and a wide pancake prime. I don't understand why anyone would want to "wait" for Canon.  They are just too far behind at this stage to be compelling. m43 have the 25mm f/1.4, the 45mm f/1.8, 20mm f/1.7, 12mm f/2 a 45mm macro, the panasonic 7-14mm and now the 12-35mm f/2.8. Canon won't have anything close to this.

Being able to adapt lenses is fun, but it's not a satisfactory substitute for having a good selection of native lenses. Unless the native lenses are good enough to cover the majority of shooting scenarios, there is little reason to prefer the mirrorless over a native (EF mount) body
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: briansquibb on June 24, 2012, 02:39:18 AM
Quote
If Canon can make a camera like this with an "affordable" pricetag (around 3.5K instead of Leicas 7K), it will be a huge success! Especially among people who wants to go mirrorless without sacrificing image quality, thin DOF capabilities and high ISO performance.

The biggest plus of FF mirrorless would be that you could adapt pretty much any lens that has ever been made and get the full fov. APS-C and m43 take normal length and tele lenses quite well, but the options for adapted wide angle lenses are limited.

Other than that, it would have the downside that it would mean the native lenses would all have to be larger, so the camera would be larger and heavier than m43, Sony or other contenders.

The Leica is typically used with normal length primes. If you want to use a fast zoom, it will be big (the m43 12-35mm f/2.8 zoom is 300gm)

Anyway, this strikes me as a bit academic. My money is on Canon releasing two slow zooms and a wide pancake prime. I don't understand why anyone would want to "wait" for Canon.  They are just too far behind at this stage to be compelling. m43 have the 25mm f/1.4, the 45mm f/1.8, 20mm f/1.7, 12mm f/2 a 45mm macro, the panasonic 7-14mm and now the 12-35mm f/2.8. Canon won't have anything close to this.

Being able to adapt lenses is fun, but it's not a satisfactory substitute for having a good selection of native lenses. Unless the native lenses are good enough to cover the majority of shooting scenarios, there is little reason to prefer the mirrorless over a native (EF mount) body

OK we get it that you are a M43 fan

To speculate on Canon coming into the M43 market place at this late stage and going head to head with the established M43 brands just doesn't make marketing sense.

Why not wait? Unless your kit is broken then sitting on your wallet might be a wise move
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: akiskev on June 24, 2012, 03:21:17 AM
The digital viewfinder has a multitude of advantages over the optical viewfinder. First, by leaving it in the same spot as the optical viewfinder we can retain a familiar form factor yet eliminate most of the mechanicals of the camera... no more shutter... longer battery life, longer camera life... and you can adjust brightness/contrast/gamma on a digital viewfinder... try that on optical!
Cool story, but a camera in constant live view mode is consuming way more energy than a camera with a shutter/mirror mechanism and live view off.
Plus resolution is not the only problem in electronic viewfinders. We need high refresh rates to minimize tearing. I'd say 120Hz.
The only decent evf in the market is Sony's, but even that has big problems while panning. Of course in the future things will get better..
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: elflord on June 24, 2012, 08:31:18 AM
OK we get it that you are a M43 fan

To speculate on Canon coming into the M43 market place at this late stage and going head to head with the established M43 brands just doesn't make marketing sense.

I'm not saying that Canon should go m43. I'm saying that Canon are quite a long way behind their competition. Whether or not they choose to develop their own system, they still need to compete with other, more mature systems.

Not just m43 -- Samsung and even Sony already have a better lens lineup than Canon will at launch. BTW, I'm not any kind of "fan". I'm in the "use the right tool for the job" camp. I use a Canon DSLR (5DMk II), and a Panasonic GF2 with the 20mm f/1.7 as my "compact" but would upgrade to the Olympus OM-D in a heartbeat if they were cheaper. I'm not cheerleading for any brand.  Canon, in my opinion are the leader in full frame portrait DSLRs, but they aren't even a contender in the mirrorless market (and won't be for some time.

Quote
Why not wait? Unless your kit is broken then sitting on your wallet might be a wise move

If you're not in the market for a mirrorless system, then there's nothing to "wait" for. If you are in the market for a mirrorless system, there's not much point waiting for Canon. You won't just be waiting until July 24, you'll be waiting for them to announce and deliver a decent lens lineup.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: briansquibb on June 24, 2012, 12:02:33 PM
It seems that a mirrorless Canon camera is pure speculation - and I am not convinced that the technology is there for anything but the low end cameras
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: ramon123 on June 24, 2012, 04:08:29 PM
I assume that if CR rated it a "CR2" then there must be some solid evidence to its arrival.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: briansquibb on June 24, 2012, 04:14:58 PM
I assume that if CR rated it a "CR2" then there must be some solid evidence to its arrival.

It doesn't say it is a high end camera
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: wickidwombat on June 24, 2012, 06:46:24 PM
I still think they should make the sensor size somewhere in between full frame and APS-C in size :D
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: gmrza on June 24, 2012, 08:46:40 PM
I still think they should make the sensor size somewhere in between full frame and APS-C in size :D

I have my doubts that they will make the sensor any larger than APS-C.  I think the 1.5" (G1X) size is more likely.  What I would hope is that they design a lens mount which permits a light circle to cover an APS-C frame, even if they use a 1.5" sensor.
There could be a market for a system which uses two sensor sizes - around 1" at the low end for entry level models and APS-C at the high end - much the way the EOS system has supported full frame, APS-C, APS-H and Super-35.
By using different sensor sizes in one system, Canon could build more economies of scale by accommodating a wider range of models from entry level to high end, and thus more shared components.

A system with two sensor sizes may also have a greater marketing ability to capture P&S upgraders at the bottom end of the market, and grow them into more demanding photographers.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: wickidwombat on June 24, 2012, 08:57:28 PM
I still think they should make the sensor size somewhere in between full frame and APS-C in size :D

I have my doubts that they will make the sensor any larger than APS-C.  I think the 1.5" (G1X) size is more likely.  What I would hope is that they design a lens mount which permits a light circle to cover an APS-C frame, even if they use a 1.5" sensor.
There could be a market for a system which uses two sensor sizes - around 1" at the low end for entry level models and APS-C at the high end - much the way the EOS system has supported full frame, APS-C, APS-H and Super-35.
By using different sensor sizes in one system, Canon could build more economies of scale by accommodating a wider range of models from entry level to high end, and thus more shared components.

A system with two sensor sizes may also have a greater marketing ability to capture P&S upgraders at the bottom end of the market, and grow them into more demanding photographers.

I hear ya, that all makes perfect sense and is more probabable
however Canon have a unique opportunity that the other manufacturers dont have

lets say that regardless of sensor size they are going to need a new mount and thus new lenses that take advantage of the lack of a mirror.

since Canon already have advanced APS-H sensor tech which produces Image quality almost as good as Full frame they could realistically make such a beast which will hand leica their Arse mainly due to the most likely massive cost difference, the APS-C to M43 space is crammed with other manufacturers competing. Also all these systems are quite advanced and have user bases. I doubt canon are likely to be that competative in this realm. they are quite late to the party which is already in full swing.

of course no matter what canon does having a good EF adapter is going to give them a solid advantage to be able to leverage their massive strength of fantastic lens selection.

A higher end mirrorless with larger sensor is going to really take it to the overpriced leicas and I think it will be a huge hit. in this market they would only really be competing with leica and offering AF will be just one of its many strengths over the expensive german.

I wonder if they might down the track develop a small sensor mirrorless and a larger sensor mirrorless.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: gmrza on June 24, 2012, 09:06:45 PM


I hear ya, that all makes perfect sense and is more probabable
however Canon have a unique opportunity that the other manufacturers dont have



I wonder how much of an issue it would be to develop a lens mount that permits an image circle supporting APS-H or 36x24mm.  A larger sensor will need a larger flange to focal plane clearance, however Canon could always do something similar to what they have done with EF-S and recess the optics of lenses with a smaller light circle into the body, keeping in mind that there is no mirror to worry about.

That way, Canon ends up with a system that could house sensors from 1" to APS-H or full frame.  Granted, the body would have to be a bit chunkier than a Nikon 1, because all bodies would have to use the same basic mount and flange to focal plane distance.  Bodies with a smaller sensor would however yield a more compact system, due to the ability to recess some of the optics into the camera body, and have less of the lens protruding in front of the body. - Keep in mind, overall (lens + body) dimensions are what count, not just the dimensions of the body.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: wickidwombat on June 25, 2012, 12:15:18 AM


I hear ya, that all makes perfect sense and is more probabable
however Canon have a unique opportunity that the other manufacturers dont have



I wonder how much of an issue it would be to develop a lens mount that permits an image circle supporting APS-H or 36x24mm.  A larger sensor will need a larger flange to focal plane clearance, however Canon could always do something similar to what they have done with EF-S and recess the optics of lenses with a smaller light circle into the body, keeping in mind that there is no mirror to worry about.

That way, Canon ends up with a system that could house sensors from 1" to APS-H or full frame.  Granted, the body would have to be a bit chunkier than a Nikon 1, because all bodies would have to use the same basic mount and flange to focal plane distance.  Bodies with a smaller sensor would however yield a more compact system, due to the ability to recess some of the optics into the camera body, and have less of the lens protruding in front of the body. - Keep in mind, overall (lens + body) dimensions are what count, not just the dimensions of the body.

I think this would be a smart more and a great idea. Then have 2 mirrorless body ranges the range that go against the smaller cheaper ones and the more expensive bad boy that will step into the ring with leica, currently leica dont really have any competition. I wonder how their pricing would react if they suddenly had a serious contender
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: ramon123 on June 25, 2012, 01:33:39 AM


I hear ya, that all makes perfect sense and is more probabable
however Canon have a unique opportunity that the other manufacturers dont have



I wonder how much of an issue it would be to develop a lens mount that permits an image circle supporting APS-H or 36x24mm.  A larger sensor will need a larger flange to focal plane clearance, however Canon could always do something similar to what they have done with EF-S and recess the optics of lenses with a smaller light circle into the body, keeping in mind that there is no mirror to worry about.

That way, Canon ends up with a system that could house sensors from 1" to APS-H or full frame.  Granted, the body would have to be a bit chunkier than a Nikon 1, because all bodies would have to use the same basic mount and flange to focal plane distance.  Bodies with a smaller sensor would however yield a more compact system, due to the ability to recess some of the optics into the camera body, and have less of the lens protruding in front of the body. - Keep in mind, overall (lens + body) dimensions are what count, not just the dimensions of the body.

Do you really think that Canon wants to compete with Leica? Those cameras are so expensive!
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: gmrza on June 25, 2012, 01:44:18 AM

Do you really think that Canon wants to compete with Leica? Those cameras are so expensive!

Apart from Leica cameras being so expensive, they probably occupy such a small market niche that it is not worth Canon's while to pursue.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: wickidwombat on June 25, 2012, 01:44:32 AM
Do you really think that Canon wants to compete with Leica? Those cameras are so expensive!

LoL judging by the latest pricing and all the tear caused by it i would say yes :P

but jokes aside I meant more from a performance/ IQ perspective not price point

Leica prices are also largely a status thing too which generates some degree of exclusivity
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: wickidwombat on June 25, 2012, 01:46:40 AM

Do you really think that Canon wants to compete with Leica? Those cameras are so expensive!

Apart from Leica cameras being so expensive, they probably occupy such a small market niche that it is not worth Canon's while to pursue.

I think the number of people that would snap up something similar, that is much more reasonably priced, is considerably larger than the small leica user base due to the price of the leica M mount system being excessive for most
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: chrysek on June 25, 2012, 07:22:52 AM
So did canon maje any anouncements on 24th?
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: Danack on June 25, 2012, 08:29:46 AM
So did canon maje any anouncements on 24th?

Er the announcement day is alleged to be the 24th of July, so nope - they didn't announce anything on the 24th of June.
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: chrysek on June 25, 2012, 11:51:43 AM
So did canon maje any anouncements on 24th?

Er the announcement day is alleged to be the 24th of July, so nope - they didn't announce anything on the 24th of June.

silly me, what were I thinking :) ups :) I guess I wanted it so badly to get something... I preordered my 1Dx and waiting desperately for it... Thanks for pointing this out, silly me :)
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: pianoplayer88key on June 25, 2012, 08:08:44 PM
Enjoy reading this site as always. :)

Any chance that the SX-50HS might be announced this summer?  (Also how long after announcement/release would I have to wait for CHDK?)

As for a mirrorless ... I'd love to see a rangefinger-style with an EF mount and a full-frame sensor (36x24mm), along with a pancake 45-50mm (one FL in that approximate range) F/1.4 or F/1.8 lens, preferably competively priced with others. :)  Also any chance of seeing a 3rd-party zoom lens (Canon would be too expensive for me) that when mounted on said camera, would allow for going from 24 or 28mm to 800 or 1000 mm or so equivalent when shooting 1080p videos, without any loss in quality?  (Or do DSLRs not allow for on-the-fly cropping when zooming in video beyond the physical limit of the lens, even if the video resolution is lower than the sensor resolution?)
Title: Re: Announcement Day July 24, 2012? [CR2]
Post by: wilerty on June 26, 2012, 12:04:37 PM
It just doesn't seem to make sense to use a larger sensor and compete with their DSLRs.  Plus it would be large.

I also don't think Canon wants to "conceed" to 4/3s.  The G1X sensor size seems more logical to me.  Physics means the camera would be a little larger than 4/3s and the lenses would be also, but if Canon could keep everything close to 4/3s size ... they would hit a home run.