canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: cszy67 on June 26, 2012, 06:56:48 PM

Title: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: cszy67 on June 26, 2012, 06:56:48 PM
I am interested in hearing your opinion regarding the image sensor format on the EOS 7D Mark II.

For fun we can compare the results to the actual release at some undetermined date in the future. I would be interested in how accurate our forum members are able to collectively predict future products.

Thanks!
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: wickidwombat on June 26, 2012, 07:03:02 PM
LOL we haven't done this topic to death already?

and you forgot APS-H as an option in the poll :P
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: neuroanatomist on June 26, 2012, 07:03:21 PM
New sensor size = new series, 7DII will be APS-C.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: briansquibb on June 26, 2012, 07:05:33 PM
plus on the poll "there wont be a 7DII"
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: cszy67 on June 26, 2012, 07:12:23 PM
Lol, not posting this for debate so much as I am interested in collecting the numbers  ;)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: crasher8 on June 26, 2012, 07:12:30 PM
The new entry level FF will be the 6D
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: wickidwombat on June 26, 2012, 07:20:37 PM
Lol, not posting this for debate so much as I am interested in collecting the numbers  ;)
you still missed a sensor size :P
its got more chance of being APS-H than FF
even though i think it will be APS-C i want to tick the APS-H option
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: cszy67 on June 26, 2012, 07:34:47 PM
OK, all votes reset to zero and APS-H added. Thanks for the interest.

Any prior voters should be able to vote again  :o
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: wickidwombat on June 26, 2012, 07:36:18 PM
woohoo APS-H APS-H APS-H

:P
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: neuroanatomist on June 26, 2012, 07:40:29 PM
APS-H APS-H APS-H

Extinct, like that gigantic, prehistoric wombat in the other thread.  :o
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: crasher8 on June 26, 2012, 07:45:12 PM
Now for the questions about will EF-S lenses work on the new 7D2H
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: wickidwombat on June 26, 2012, 07:50:49 PM
APS-H APS-H APS-H

Extinct, like that gigantic, prehistoric wombat in the other thread.  :o

spoil sport :o
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: pwp on June 26, 2012, 07:51:11 PM
How pointless is this question? Is it what you think it will be or what you want it to be?
If 7DII goes FF it won't be a 7 series any more. If there is a 7DII it's likely to remain the premium APS-C Canon.

PW
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: briansquibb on June 26, 2012, 07:54:57 PM
Perhaps it should have been titled "7D sucessor" ?
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: tron on June 26, 2012, 08:00:10 PM
It has to be APS-C for compatibility reasons. If the poll was not to guess but which format we wish I would vote APS-H (The FF is taken by other series...)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: distant.star on June 26, 2012, 08:40:37 PM

.

After giving this much thought, I'm sure Canon has a wholly different strategy in mind. The next 7D will be the 7DD, the 7DoubleD.

The 7DoubleD will have two sensors, one an H and one a C. It will have two lens mounts, one for each sensor and a selector switch for which sensor/lens you want to use. The photography world will go nuts for this, hailing it as the greatest advance in photography since the autowinder. After seeing it, Nikon will simply give up and go out of business.

And finally, all 7DoubleD purchasers will get 70 virgin like creatures at their disposal when they finally depart this realm.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: crasher8 on June 26, 2012, 08:54:34 PM
It will be called the Elantra.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: RLPhoto on June 26, 2012, 08:55:31 PM
I still believe the 7D2 will be APS-H. 8)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: bdunbar79 on June 26, 2012, 09:04:22 PM
I still believe the 7D2 will be APS-H. 8)

Now THAT would be awesome  8)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: takoman46 on June 26, 2012, 09:37:11 PM
Canon can't change the image sensor format of a new 7D from APS-C to APS-H or FF and still maintain the product title "7D". If anything the 7D name would be eliminated and a new name will be used.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: bdunbar79 on June 26, 2012, 09:41:52 PM
Canon can't change the image sensor format of a new 7D from APS-C to APS-H or FF and still maintain the product title "7D". If anything the 7D name would be eliminated and a new name will be used.

Yes we know.  It was a joke.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: takoman46 on June 26, 2012, 09:50:42 PM
Canon can't change the image sensor format of a new 7D from APS-C to APS-H or FF and still maintain the product title "7D". If anything the 7D name would be eliminated and a new name will be used.

Yes we know.  It was a joke.

Oh haha!  :-[ I just read the 1DX thread and figured that was a joke... but this one had a poll so I thought it was serious... apologies
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: bdunbar79 on June 26, 2012, 09:59:15 PM
No, no, the poll is serious!  The recent APS-H sensor remarks are the joke, excuse us who make fun and then people can't tell what's serious and what isn't  8)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: benhar on June 26, 2012, 11:01:24 PM
I believe the next 7D will be APS-C.  What I am more curious about is when it will be released.  Given that new firmware has just been announced for the current 7D, my guess is that we will not see a 7D mkii until sometime in 2013.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: AprilForever on June 27, 2012, 12:52:38 AM
New sensor size = new series, 7DII will be APS-C.

Thank you.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: nicku on June 27, 2012, 12:56:25 AM
I believe the next 7D will be APS-C.  What I am more curious about is when it will be released.  Given that new firmware has just been announced for the current 7D, my guess is that we will not see a 7D mkii until sometime in 2013.

I want to believe that will be APS-H... but i voted APS-C  :-\.

The new firmware was official announced ??
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: briansquibb on June 27, 2012, 02:05:04 AM
I believe the next 7D will be APS-C.  What I am more curious about is when it will be released.  Given that new firmware has just been announced for the current 7D, my guess is that we will not see a 7D mkii until sometime in 2013.

I want to believe that will be APS-H... but i voted APS-C  :-\.

The new firmware was official announced ??

I think the firmware rumour has been morphed into a fact

What we dont know at this point is:

- will the current 7D have minor updates to become the 70D
- will there be a replacement for the 7D
- would Canon reposition the 7D replacement as an 'entry level pro' sports camera (putting the price to the 5DIII level)

There are so many options that at this point it is pure speculation

Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: nicku on June 27, 2012, 03:28:09 AM
There are two possibilities:

1. If canon will release a entry level FF camera than 7D line will cease to exist. they will move 70D little bit up (no reason to have two APS-C high end cameras).
2. If there will be no entry level FF than 7D2 will be improved and released in winter 2012, early 2013.

There is a big possibility that Nikon D400 will not be released (for the same reason... D600)and they will move little bit up the D7000 replacement.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: pwp on June 27, 2012, 04:49:24 AM
I still believe the 7D2 will be APS-H. 8)

Believe or want? Believe based on what? Information? Come on, let us in!

PW
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: neuroanatomist on June 27, 2012, 05:55:24 AM
(http://lupusranting.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/i_want_to_believe.jpg)

We'll see UFOs before an APS-H 7D...   :P
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: crasher8 on June 27, 2012, 10:48:58 AM
UF nailed it. With one caveat. The entire nomenclature of entry level and semi pro wording will become a tangled mess and no one will ever agree unless Canon decides to make just two camera bodies and no more.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: bdunbar79 on June 27, 2012, 12:31:44 PM
On message boards it is so easy to do this Brian.  They cannot "see" you therefore they retort whatever insults they care to because there is no personal connection or consequence.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: CR Backup Admin on June 27, 2012, 01:02:01 PM
On message boards it is so easy to do this Brian.  They cannot "see" you therefore they retort whatever insults they care to because there is no personal connection or consequence.

Actually, there are several moderators who try to monitor posts, and remove those which insult users.  Rather than reply and start a flame war, its better just to report a inappropriate post.  The forum is able to keep track of warnings and that can lead to a ban, but thats not a common situation.

We try to discourage flaming others, so posters should read their posts carefully before posting.  To make things even more complex, we have different cultures represented with different perceptions and some of them may think that posts that are allowed elsewhere are acceptable here. 

There are some general rules in the site information area that we try to enforce.

Thanks for being such a good group, and be civil :)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: DianeK on June 27, 2012, 01:02:26 PM
(http://lupusranting.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/i_want_to_believe.jpg)

We'll see UFOs before an APS-H 7D...   :P

You crack me up  ;D
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: unfocused on June 27, 2012, 01:31:51 PM
On message boards it is so easy to do this Brian.  They cannot "see" you therefore they retort whatever insults they care to because there is no personal connection or consequence.

Actually, there are several moderators who try to monitor posts, and remove those which insult users.  Rather than reply and start a flame war, its better just to report a inappropriate post.  The forum is able to keep track of warnings and that can lead to a ban, but thats not a common situation.

We try to discourage flaming others, so posters should read their posts carefully before posting.  To make things even more complex, we have different cultures represented with different perceptions and some of them may think that posts that are allowed elsewhere are acceptable here. 

There are some general rules in the site information area that we try to enforce.

Thanks for being such a good group, and be civil :)

And my posts were deleted because????

I was civil, reasoned and polite. I said nothing unkind about anyone, but simply disagreed with an oft-repeated (ad nauseam) perspective. I did not even reference belief in UFOs.

Apparently I expressed an opinion that someone didn't like.  I mourn the loss of Karma and detest this mindless censorship. (Plus much of this thread no longer makes any sense!)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: iaind on June 27, 2012, 01:53:14 PM
(http://lupusranting.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/i_want_to_believe.jpg)

We'll see UFOs before an APS-H 7D...   :P

Also Bigfoot, Yeti and the Loch Ness Monster
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: jueming23 on June 27, 2012, 01:56:00 PM
If 7D II is not FF,How to update?
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: Quasimodo on June 27, 2012, 02:53:56 PM
I answered the APS-C, and like Neuro said, they would probably change the name of it if it differed. I would love to see a 1.9 crop sensor which has brilliant AF and IQ, with a hell of a range :)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: iaind on June 27, 2012, 03:18:19 PM
If 7D II is not FF,How to update?

Full frame upgrades already exist.  Both 5D and 1D series bodies
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: wickidwombat on June 27, 2012, 06:19:00 PM
(http://lupusranting.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/i_want_to_believe.jpg)

We'll see UFOs before an APS-H 7D...   :P

Also Bigfoot, Yeti and the Loch Ness Monster

yeah they all have the test copies...
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: pwp on June 27, 2012, 07:40:58 PM
If 7D II is not FF, how to update?

61 point AF, greatly improved high ISO performance, 10 FPS, Digic 5+  & UFO detector for starters.
Video users will add to this list.

PW
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: unfocused on June 27, 2012, 07:49:21 PM
We will see if my mostly innocuous comments get deleted again!

7DII will be essentially identical to the 5DIII in features and build, except it will have an APS-C sensor. Many will whine and declare that Canon is "ripping us off" because the 5DIII is almost twice as expensive and it's "not fair" that a full frame sensor should cost so much more. Canon will sell millions.

70D will inherit most of the features of the 7D, but retain the 60D build quality. Many will whine because they remain unable to let go of the 40D. Canon will sell millions.

If a full frame entry level camera materializes, it will share build quality with the 60D and have autofocus and other features similar to the 5DII. Many will whine because it's not a 5DIII for half the price. Canon will sell millions.

Although the new APS-C sensor will outperform the last APS-H sensor Canon ever built, THOSE WHO CANNOT BE NAMED will continue to write endless posts about how an APS-H sensor would be so much better and will continue to hold on to the fantasy that APS-H will be resurrected from the dead and walk the earth again. Canon will sell millions (just not APS-H).
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: lonebear on June 27, 2012, 08:00:38 PM
(http://lupusranting.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/i_want_to_believe.jpg)

We'll see UFOs before an APS-H 7D...   :P

Also Bigfoot, Yeti and the Loch Ness Monster

yeah they all have the test copies...

How about to name the illusional APS-H copy as 7D Yeti? A name not really bad.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: wickidwombat on June 27, 2012, 08:02:47 PM
meh I freely admit to being an APS-H fanboy and take no exception to the term being used to describe me :D
I would also go so far as to say that 99% of people that criticise APS-H dont own and have not used 1D bodies with said sensor design and are as such basing their opinions of spec sheets rather than real world experience

other points pretty valid too however thinking a 7DII in 5Dmk3 body is going to be close to under 2k is a bit of wishfull thinking

I also very much doubt the new APS-C sensor is going to go anywhere close to competing with the 1Dmk4 sensor the T4i is a fair indication that this will be the case.

In any case I hope you are correct and all the current 1Dmk4 owners see the error of their ways and buy the 7Dmk ii because they are better on paper and sell them dirt cheap so i can pick one up for a grand to replace my venerable 1Dmk3 :P

I really wanted to like the 7D and came close to replacing my 1Dmk3 with one that was based on spec sheets until i compared them in the real world and decided that the lowly 10MP 1D3 still clearly outperformed the 7D in absolutely every respect from ISO 100 to ISO 3200. It was a pretty sad realisation because i was looking forward to not having the 1D bulk oh well back to dreaming of a gripless APS-H high end body :P
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: unfocused on June 27, 2012, 11:35:23 PM
We are all fanboys or fangirls here (although I suspect there are far more boys than girls, unfortunately). Some are just honest about it.

Don't misunderstand. I think the 1D IV is a fantastic camera, if a bit out of my price range. But, acknowledging a camera to be great is different from misreading the many signals from the manufacturer about the future of the format.

I may be overly optimistic about the pricing and/or features of a 7DII. But, there is some logic behind my optimism. In a nutshell, it must appeal to a market that is much more price sensitive than the 5DIII. Because the market is mature now, it must also attract current 7D owners like myself if it is to succeed. I base much of my speculation on what I believe it would take to convince me and other current 7D users to upgrade.

I commend Canon for targeting the 5DIII to a specific professional market (wedding and event photographers) and for doing sufficient market research to know that the $500 premium would be worth it to these professionals for the superior ISO and noise performance. (As an aside, the D800 seems either not particularly well-targeted, or is targeted toward a much smaller universe)

Yes, I do expect to see some improvement with the next generation of APS-C sensor. The T4i is not a new generation, but appears to rather be the same generation as existing APS-C sensors with continuous autofocus laid on top. To me, the more interesting speculation is whether the 70D will receive the same sensor as the 7DII or if it will also receive the T4i sensor.

Perhaps I am just ignorant, but I do always wonder when people proclaim the virtues of larger sensors, just what they are seeing that I am missing. I have made prints up to 18 x 27 and even with my nose inches away from the print there is no visible grain or noise. People complain about issues that I have never had a problem with (banding for example). I've read numerous posts from successful photographers who readily acknowledge that neither they nor their colleagues can identify differences between sensors in a final print.

I understand and respect the opinions of those who prefer the bokeh of a larger sensor. But, that is a question of style, not of quality.

Just what is it that is so troublesome for some photographers that they feel they cannot get a good product out of an APS-C sensor?
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: wickidwombat on June 28, 2012, 12:06:40 AM
people often view the APS-H sensor as a compromise designed to overcome limitations to full frame based on older slower processing tech, that may have been a large part of its origin

however rather than being a compromise it actually creates a few unique advantages especially when coupled with particular canon lenses

1) The image quality is alot closer to full frame than to crop, its cleaner, sharper basically better all round
the 18MP APS-C sensors have a "fuzziness" about them that the larger sensors dont. they are not bad necessarily however for my personal choice I dont feel they are in the same league as the bigger sensors
And dare I say it they are not as good as the 1.5 Crop sensors from nikon either :P
2) You still get the lens sweet spot effect, soft corners are gone, lens vignetting gone yep crop has this too and to an even greater degree but the 1.3 crop has a wonderfull balance of IQ and lens benefits
3) a 1.3 teleconverter with no loss of aperture light or image quality
4) the 1.3 crop coupled with the 16-35 f2.8L II make the best walkaround lens on a 1.6 crop the 16-35 is a bit tight for my taste however it gives effectively 21mm to 46mm corner to corner sharp wide open, internally zooming weather sealed with filter not too long not too heavy if the body wasnt to massive on the 1D series it would be the most killer street combo. If you want to see what I mean I suggest hiring a 1D4 and this lens for a day and go shooting. its better than the 24-70 mk1 on full frame however with the MTF on the mk 2 this advantage may be largely a thing of the past. its all down to taste but i really like 20 to 21mm on the wide end and with it hitting up to 46mm its still very usable for portraits

the only 2 advantages APS-C have over APS-H is a bit more reach however APS-H equipped cameras have f8 Autofocus and the APS-C cameras are cheaper / smaller (although i see smaller a disadvantage i find rebels too tiny the 5D size is ideal IMO)

while theres some decent EF-S glass its not better than the corresponding L glass and since it sells for high prices on the used market i dont really see the drama with EF-S compatability when superior L glass on an APS-H camera will out perform the best EF-S on any 1.6 crop just sell and go L :P

there you go thats all probably worth a good few smites :P
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: jueming23 on June 28, 2012, 12:26:21 AM
If 7D II is not FF, how to update?

61 point AF, greatly improved high ISO performance, 10 FPS, Digic 5+  & UFO detector for starters.
Video users will add to this list.

PW

then how much is it? the same as 7D?i hope it be cheaper than 7D.there are so many cheap ff DSLR rumors,i don't think the price of a aps-c DSLR should be higher than 1500.i like 7D,it's awesome,but i think there is no necessary to update it.let's welcome FF generation.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: papa-razzi on June 28, 2012, 12:57:55 AM
With new firmware coming out for the 7D in August that adds a number of features and performance enhancements, it is unlikely that a 7DII is coming any time soon. 

Canon wouldn't release a significant firmware update for a camera it was replacing in the very near future.



Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: lonebear on June 28, 2012, 09:59:11 AM
Personally, I am a fanboy of APS-H too. One rumor indicated 7D will have no successor, which might imply some big changes in 7D series. No format changes in the same series? 1Ds & 1D were precedent. Of course, it's just my personal reading of the rumors. By September, probably everything will become clear, and I won't be surprised if 7D Yeti comes into existence.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: cszy67 on June 28, 2012, 10:16:12 AM
As I understand it, the introduction of the APS-H was largely a business decision used to maximize profit and had nothing to do with addressing the needs of the consumer. It was a solution looking for a problem.

Let's be honest, no one else offers anything in that particular size. Canon made a business decision, attempted to be "first to market", the market responded with a "meh," and now there is the odd-ball APS-H sensor that really has no place.

I imagine the owners of APS-H rigs feel quite differently but the truth is the truth.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: MYB on June 28, 2012, 10:55:08 AM
Hi to CR Forum with my first comment,
I think Canon needs a compact APS-H ( 5D body ) whatever it calls 7DII or something else. Bigger sensor gives better IQ and still have a bit reach for outdoor and if Canon keeps the f/8 AF advantage for using teleconverter, it satisfies a lot people.
Yes we can't use EF-S lenses on APS-H ( and comes out an ultra wide angle problem ) but it's Canons problem not mine. I can buy a Sigma DC or Tamron Di II. These lenses are causes only a bit vignette at the corners. But it's not bad at all. And if you don't want it you can crop the photo ( to 1.5, 1.6 ) when you will use it.
For example, if Canon makes a 22 MP APS-H and i have a Sigma 10-20mm DC. When i crop it to 1.5 still i have a 15mm 16MP photo. I think 16MP is enough for most of people. Maybe Canon makes a crop mode.
Of course i'm not a professional and these are my opinions.

(I am not good at English. If i said something wrong, apologies).
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: briansquibb on June 28, 2012, 01:53:08 PM
As I understand it, the introduction of the APS-H was largely a business decision used to maximize profit and had nothing to do with addressing the needs of the consumer. It was a solution looking for a problem.

Let's be honest, no one else offers anything in that particular size. Canon made a business decision, attempted to be "first to market", the market responded with a "meh," and now there is the odd-ball APS-H sensor that really has no place.

I imagine the owners of APS-H rigs feel quite differently but the truth is the truth.

I am curious why you think that is the truth?

1. The APS-H was a very efficient size from a production point of view
2. No other manufactuer produces a 1.6 crop APS-C
3. Leica produce a APS-H - the M8
4. Like all businesses, they are all always looking to maximise profit, as are Nikon, Sony, Panasonic et all
5. APS-H was never intended as a consumer product, always for the pro shooters, and right from day 1
6. Kodak first introduced the APS-H, not Canon

The truth is the truth, Jim, but not quite as you see it  8) 8) 8)


I see no reason at all why Canon should not produce something different. Elsewhere it would be called inovation, on this forum it seems to meet with disapproval.

As far as I am concerned the APS-H has a very good pedigree - far better than the APS-C. Why not replace APS-C with something better and let APS-C be in the P&S and mirorless? - that way Canon only have 2 sensor sizes, both capable of producing first class IQ
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II
Post by: wickidwombat on June 28, 2012, 07:26:17 PM
As I understand it, the introduction of the APS-H was largely a business decision used to maximize profit and had nothing to do with addressing the needs of the consumer. It was a solution looking for a problem.

Let's be honest, no one else offers anything in that particular size. Canon made a business decision, attempted to be "first to market", the market responded with a "meh," and now there is the odd-ball APS-H sensor that really has no place.

I imagine the owners of APS-H rigs feel quite differently but the truth is the truth.

Damn I dont think all the sports shooters and associated press photographers got that memo, you better go let them know they should be shooting rebels instead  ::)