canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => Canon General => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on March 30, 2011, 12:07:46 AM

Title: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: Canon Rumors on March 30, 2011, 12:07:46 AM

Delays?

Not hearing a lot of positive things about current products and new products because of the Japanese earthquake.


The latest info I’ve received says all of Canon, Nikon and Sony are still unsure what the near future is going to bring.


Canon may be in fact delaying new product announcements. I was told every executive within Canon is being told to “prepare for the worst”. Sales reps are being told not to say anything.


I do not personally know anything about the rolling blackouts and “dead zone” expansion in Japan around Canon manufacturing facilities.


I’ve received no word whether or not Canon is looking at moving some manufacturing to different countries.


Pricing Rising

As  a lot of you have probably noticed, camera equipment is getting more expensive and disappearing from shelves. There’s lots of out of stock items around various stores.


A lot of retailers are getting or close to getting MSRP for camera stuff. This is not going to change quickly.


All rebate programs that were planned have been cancelled for the most part. I’m still looking around to see if any are still a go.


Recent Rumblings

I’m not sure what to make of recent product announcement rumblings, whether things have leaked because plans have changed.


cr


Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: jalbfb on March 30, 2011, 12:32:13 AM
 :'( I was afraid of this.  That was why I decided not to wait for the 5DIII and got the 5DII at it's usual price with lenses that still carried their rebate values.  I am glad I did ;D  But I am sad for Japan.  The news on the nuclear reactor isn't looking good and that has to have the country paralyzed to some extent.  At least the country's psyche. All of their resources are being diverted to recovery efforts, all of their nuc plants are being reviewed.  Manufacturing has to have taken a big hit and it may be some time before they will start rolling again.  I pray I am wrong, but I fear I am not.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: jnskyliner34 on March 30, 2011, 12:41:37 AM
glad I got my 10-22mm last week. prices haven't risen over here in the Philippines yet.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: MB11 on March 30, 2011, 01:28:33 AM
Been waiting and waiting for the 5D3....got impatient and picked up a 5d2 at Best Buy for 2250. Looks like I may have made the right choice
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: st sebastian on March 30, 2011, 01:58:15 AM
I hope Canon is in fact delaying new product announcements, and should have done so when the lenses announced for January were late.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: x-vision on March 30, 2011, 01:58:37 AM
Unfortunately, this bad news is hardly surprising.
All the best to the people affected by the disaster!
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: armando on March 30, 2011, 02:20:58 AM
Bless those Japan folks' yeah I decided to buy what I need from canon, lens, sigma as well 5d mkii, it's the facts, that was one really bad disaster after the other. Earthquake - tsunami - then that evil nuclear plant seriously .. The more folks wait hold to buy.... Well.. I don't recommend that right now.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: Stuart on March 30, 2011, 06:33:47 AM
Untill rolling power cuts can be stopped, or planned for, releasing a new product line would just hamper manufacturing with a peak of orders when it could least sustain them.
With unknown nuclear radiation affected areas, whole area's might yet be delared off limits and factory populations might need to move.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: JLN on March 30, 2011, 07:37:20 AM
I don't find this suprising. In fact I think it's common sense to expect manufacturing delays and decreased stock levels, which in turn leads to price gouging, both on primary and secondary markets.

For this reason i'd rate this a CR3, if not a fact.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: Rowbear on March 30, 2011, 08:00:32 AM
Good luck Japan. Stay strong  :-*
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: iPrevailed on March 30, 2011, 09:59:30 AM
ugh... i dont have enough money yet to buy the mkii yet.. i only have 2,000 ]:
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: Kuscali on March 30, 2011, 10:57:41 AM
Does anyone know where the Canon manufacturing facilities are and, what each one does? I know Nikon is very close to that region (was from Sendai) if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: obsoletepower on March 30, 2011, 11:38:35 AM
Yup here you go. This is a list of all of Canon's Manufacturing Facilities in Japan. The 3 main plants where L-lenses and Pro bodies are built are Oita, Fukushima and Utsunomiya all of which are INOP.

http://www.canon.com/corp/list03.html
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: Kuscali on March 30, 2011, 12:12:22 PM
By INOP do you mean in operation?


On that page is says for Oita (relatively far from Fukushima):
Quote
Digital cameras, digital video camcorders, EF lenses, compact photo printers and others

For Fukushima:
Quote
Production of inkjet printers, print heads and ink tanks; analysis of software

Nagasaki also produces Digital Cameras (Nagasaki is pretty far away from Fukushima).

So is it relatively safe to conclude that the lens production and camera production are a safe distance away?

I hope Japan gets back from this, and comes out even better than before (as history has shown Japan done this). After my education finished and I learned Japanese I would like to move there.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: CR Backup Admin on March 30, 2011, 01:02:56 PM
By INOP do you mean in operation?


On that page is says for Oita (relatively far from Fukushima):
Quote
Digital cameras, digital video camcorders, EF lenses, compact photo printers and others

For Fukushima:
Quote
Production of inkjet printers, print heads and ink tanks; analysis of software

Nagasaki also produces Digital Cameras (Nagasaki is pretty far away from Fukushima).

So is it relatively safe to conclude that the lens production and camera production are a safe distance away?

I hope Japan gets back from this, and comes out even better than before (as history has shown Japan done this). After my education finished and I learned Japanese I would like to move there.




"L" lenses are made at Utsunomiya.  A new lens plant is starting up at Oita, but there have been production problems there that have delayed the startup.

Here is a report posted on DPR from a person who said he was briefed by Canon management last week. It does sound reasonable to me.
_____________________________________________

Canon provided an update last week on operations. Here are the highlights as it pertains to cameras and lenses:

Canon has three plants and five affiliates located in the Kanto area and further north. The Utsunomiya plant suffered the most damage and this is where all the L and other lenses are made.

Utsunomiya is a major production site for interchangeable lenses and incurred some damage to plant buildings and equipment. Management has not finalized the schedule for restarting operations due to lack of reliable electricity supply and parts procurement issues.

Canon is reviewing the Oita and Taiwan plants as alternative output sites for interchangeable lenses. I believe Nikon announced a similar move to transfer production to Malaysia.

Oita Canon and Nagasaki Canon, key production sites for digital cameras, have suspended operations since last week because of difficulties procuring commodity electronic parts and other items following the earthquake. Management has not made a decision on the timing for resuming operations yet.

Canon has indicated a task force has been set up to determine which of its affected sites may not be operable within a month and to move that production to other Canon sites. This may not be possible for lenses however.

Both Canon and Nikon have been extremely careful about inventory levels in the aftermath of the financial crisis. This will further exacerbate the current problem as Canon only has 27 days of inventory on hand in the camera and lens segments.

I have been told that all North American retailers (and likely global) have been put on an allocation basis for bodies and lenses. Many retailers already look to be out of popular lenses and bodies. I have confirmed this with 2 retailers who have said they are on allocation and do not expect to have stock for 6-8 weeks (which could be optimistic).

We will see prices on the popular lenses and cameras increase (we have already) given that both Nikon and Canon are suffering production disruptions and inventory levels are very low across all channels.

If you have been waiting to purchase a lens now is the time to buy it otherwise you may have to wait months before it is restocked.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on March 30, 2011, 01:21:41 PM
As I (and others) have stated previously, the location and operational status of Canon's plants is not the only concern.  Canon products are assembled at Canon plants, but the parts come from both Canon plants and other vendor plants. Many silicon chip makers have plants in the Sendai area that were obviously affected more than some Canon facilities.  If Canon sourced parts from those vendors for lenses and/or bodies, that will impact Canon's production lines.

It's interesting that Canon recently stopped stamping date codes on some lenses.  I do know that my 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, bought soon after the lens was released, has a date code - more recent copies of the lens reportedly do not, so they dropped the date code in production.  But, lenses I purchased late last year (35L, 135L) had late 2010 (UY10) date codes, and that means they were produced after Canon stopped putting date codes on the 70-200 II.  Does anyone know if this change applies across the board?  If Canon does retool another factory for lens production, without the date code initial letter, there may be no way to know where the lens was made (hopefully, it won't matter, but you never know...).
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: Goincarcrazy on March 30, 2011, 06:32:11 PM
I thought I heard that they were replacing the date codes with serial numbers.  If anything, that would give MORE info.  I could be mistaken though. 
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on March 30, 2011, 07:31:20 PM
I thought I heard that they were replacing the date codes with serial numbers.  If anything, that would give MORE info.  I could be mistaken though.

Lenses with date codes also have serial numbers, although the new serial numbers on lenses without date codes are longer (10 digits for the 70-200 II).  The thing is, we know how to interpret date codes - but the new, longer serial numbers are meaningless at this point.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: CR Backup Admin on March 30, 2011, 07:55:05 PM
The thing is, we know how to interpret that date codes - but the new, longer serial numbers are meaningless at this point.

I keep expecting some web site to collect serial numbers versus pruchase date and make that available to used lens buyers.  It would be only approximate, but someone might also use it to figure out dates more accurately.  Usually, serial numbers are sequential, so that would help.

I would think that Canon Service will be able to lookup a lenses manufacture date by serial number. 
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: ronderick on March 31, 2011, 12:13:20 AM
As I (and others) have stated previously, the location and operational status of Canon's plants is not the only concern.  Canon products are assembled at Canon plants, but the parts come from both Canon plants and other vendor plants. Many silicon chip makers have plants in the Sendai area that were obviously affected more than some Canon facilities.  If Canon sourced parts from those vendors for lenses and/or bodies, that will impact Canon's production lines.

Totally agree: the vital thing is not the finsihed camera or lens, but all those micro components that makes up the whole. While there's a Canon plant in Taiwan, lens production would run into problems if certain "made in Japan ONLY" components  becomes lacking (like iPad2's battery, which I believe is made in Japan with no alternative).

On a side note, while note related to Canon or the camera industry per se, this English article from Asahi News gives a broader view of how damages to the supply chain will have an impact on the bigger international scene: http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103280161.html (http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103280161.html)
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: JoshObra on March 31, 2011, 12:44:08 AM
I'm quite sad about the price rising so high.

I was planning on buying another prime lens this month but the current price is like roughly $60+ the normal prices!
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: Stuart on March 31, 2011, 04:44:50 AM
So here is a thought, if Canon knew it was less affected than Nikon. It could use this time to allow prices to rise as well as pent up demand, then release a camera/stock at a higher price for a good peak in revenue.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: obsoletepower on March 31, 2011, 10:15:34 AM
Here I think is a good website for identifying when and where your lenses were made.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/canon-lenses/canon-lens-aging.aspx

And to respond to Kuscali on the previous page, by INOP I mean INOPERABLE which is what the abbreviation is used for.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on March 31, 2011, 10:24:59 AM
Here I think is a good website for identifying when and where your lenses were made.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/canon-lenses/canon-lens-aging.aspx

Which is exactly my point about lenses produced currently - that link (and there are others with the same info) - use the date code for age and production location.  But, some new lenses do not have that code on them (and not all lenses have them, in any case, but all L lenses did...until they dropped it from the 70-200 II).
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: Flake on March 31, 2011, 12:27:10 PM
As I (and others) have stated previously, the location and operational status of Canon's plants is not the only concern.  Canon products are assembled at Canon plants, but the parts come from both Canon plants and other vendor plants. Many silicon chip makers have plants in the Sendai area that were obviously affected more than some Canon facilities.  If Canon sourced parts from those vendors for lenses and/or bodies, that will impact Canon's production lines.

Totally agree: the vital thing is not the finsihed camera or lens, but all those micro components that makes up the whole. While there's a Canon plant in Taiwan, lens production would run into problems if certain "made in Japan ONLY" components  becomes lacking (like iPad2's battery, which I believe is made in Japan with no alternative).

On a side note, while note related to Canon or the camera industry per se, this English article from Asahi News gives a broader view of how damages to the supply chain will have an impact on the bigger international scene: http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103280161.html (http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103280161.html)

If only that was the Japanese way.  They seem to have a pathalogical distaste for using foreign sourced components even if that would get them out of a hole, the only way they seem able to accept this is if the foreign manufactured components are made by a Japanese owned company.

An illustration of how stiff necked they are about this can be seen with the Fukushima Daichii nuclear plant, when they refused to accept foreign advice and certificated it for at least another 10 years when it should have been decommissioned this year.

If Canon cannot source Japanese make components it is unlikely they will source them elsewhere they'd rather the plant sat idle and production stopped.  It might seem strange to us in the West but that's just how they are, having worked for them there's a definite 'alien' culture there.

Canon should be able to produce camera bodies even if it can't get straight back into lens production, I think they're in a better position than Nikon as most people will have a few L grade lenses and expect bodies to be replaced on a more regular basis, the cheaper DSLRs have lenses made in other countries so should be relatively unaffected.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on March 31, 2011, 12:46:28 PM
the cheaper DSLRs have lenses made in other countries so should be relatively unaffected.

The cheaper DSLRs themselves are made in other countries.  Canon Taiwan produces, "Digital SLR cameras, EF lenses, LCD projector lenses and other lenses, precision-metal molds."  The XS/1000D was made there.  Apparently, the T3/1100D is made in Japan, but I'd bet that could be easily moved to Taiwan (and was likely planned to move there at some point anyway).
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: transpo1 on March 31, 2011, 06:40:22 PM
Anyone know where the 5Dii and 7D are made? I'm assuming Japan since those are a step above the t3i build-quality wise but am curious to know...
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: CR Backup Admin on March 31, 2011, 06:42:51 PM
All the Canon DSLR's are made assembled in Japan.  Some of the consumer lenses, are currently made in Taiwan.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: obsoletepower on April 01, 2011, 07:12:38 AM
Not true. The Canon Rebel DSLRs are made in Taiwan.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: obsoletepower on April 01, 2011, 07:13:55 AM
Anyone know where the 5Dii and 7D are made? I'm assuming Japan since those are a step above the t3i build-quality wise but am curious to know...

Yup both of those are made in Japan.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: CR Backup Admin on April 01, 2011, 11:07:27 AM
Not true. The Canon Rebel DSLRs are made in Taiwan.

I stand by my statement, the bodies are all made in japan.

Thanks for the photos, apparently they were made in both Japan and in Taiwan.

Attach a post of your Rebel ID label that says in Taiwan.  Only the lower cost lenses are made in Taiwan.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: ronderick on April 01, 2011, 12:34:16 PM
Not true. The Canon Rebel DSLRs are made in Taiwan.

I stand by my statement, the bodies are all made in japan.

Attach a post of your Rebel ID label that says in Taiwan.  Only the lower cost lenses are made in Taiwan.

In case anyone's interested, here's the list of production-related firms (in Japanese) for Canon:
http://web.canon.jp/corp/list03.html

From this list, the products of Taiwan' plant includes EF lens and DSLR (デジタル一眼レフカメラ).

However, to the best of my knowledge, there's one (only one? not sure...) DSLR body that has a "MIT" version - the 300D. Now that's quite a while back... (the 300D is one of the 4 DSLRs CR Guy mentioned in the last contest). Given the years that the factory has been around, I won't be surprised if it plays an important role in the production of entry DSLRs.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on April 01, 2011, 12:47:58 PM
However, to the best of my knowledge, there's (only?) one DSLR body that has a "MIT" version - the 300D. Now that's quite a while back... (that's one of the 4 DSLRs CR Guy mentioned in the last contest)

I believe that the Rebel XS/1000D was also produced in Taiwan (as well as Japan), and that body was current until the very recent release of the T3/1100D.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: CR Backup Admin on April 01, 2011, 02:15:55 PM
There have been a number of posters who read the box and see Taiwan, rather than reading the label on the bottom of the camera.  The box may list Taiwan due to the 18-55mm lens being made in Taiwan. 

 When I bought my 300D in 2003, and the body was made in Japan.  I have photos of the camera, but not the id plate.

Here is a photo of my 400D nameplate

(http://www.mount-spokane-photography.com/Photography/Canon-XTi/Canon-XTi04/1236147701_4cc9v-L.jpg)

If someone has a Canon DSLR made in Taiwan, snap a photo of the label on the bottom and post it. 

I've owned the D30, 300D, 350D, 400D, 20D, 30D, 40D, 5D, 5D MK II, 1D MK II, and 1D MK III.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on April 01, 2011, 02:29:44 PM
If someone has a Canon DSLR made in Taiwan, snap a photo of the label on the bottom and post it.

I don't.  But, dpreview.com does.  This is from their preview of the new T3/1100D (http://www.dpreview.com/news/1102/11020719canoneos1100d.asp):

(http://a.img-dpreview.com/news/1102/canon/1100d/EOS-1100D-BLACK-BOTTOM.jpg)
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: CR Backup Admin on April 01, 2011, 02:50:06 PM
If someone has a Canon DSLR made in Taiwan, snap a photo of the label on the bottom and post it.

I don't.  But, dpreview.com does.  This is from their preview of the new T3/1100D (http://www.dpreview.com/news/1102/11020719canoneos1100d.asp):

(http://a.img-dpreview.com/news/1102/canon/1100d/EOS-1100D-BLACK-BOTTOM.jpg)

Interesting, I've learned something for today.

I've seen listings on Amazon for the T3i say made in Japan, perhaps the Kiss versions for the  Japanese market are made in Japan.

This T3i review mentions:

The bottom of the Made In Japan DSLR has a metal tripod mount and battery compartment

http://www.digitaltrends.com/digital-camera-reviews/canon-eos-rebel-t3i-review/

Photos Me_Me_Me all word descriptions, however.

I'll check out best buy store if I'm in there.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: ronderick on April 02, 2011, 11:19:13 AM
There have been a number of posters who read the box and see Taiwan, rather than reading the label on the bottom of the camera.  The box may list Taiwan due to the 18-55mm lens being made in Taiwan. 

 When I bought my 300D in 2003, and the body was made in Japan.  I have photos of the camera, but not the id plate.

Never had a 300D, but here's a picture of the 300D with a "Made in Taiwan" tag at the bottom. It's near the bottom of the page:

http://www.digital.idv.tw/DIGITAL/dc-test/Canon/CanonEOS300D/opera/canon-eos300d-opera.htm (http://www.digital.idv.tw/DIGITAL/dc-test/Canon/CanonEOS300D/opera/canon-eos300d-opera.htm)

Again, there are both MIT and MIJ versions of the camera, so I guess it really depends on where you purchase your camera.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: CR Backup Admin on April 02, 2011, 12:58:57 PM
There have been a number of posters who read the box and see Taiwan, rather than reading the label on the bottom of the camera.  The box may list Taiwan due to the 18-55mm lens being made in Taiwan. 

 When I bought my 300D in 2003, and the body was made in Japan.  I have photos of the camera, but not the id plate.

Never had a 300D, but here's a picture of the 300D with a "Made in Taiwan" tag at the bottom. It's near the bottom of the page:

I think you are correct, they were made in both places.  I stopped by Best Buy yesterday while I was buying something next door, but the keeper they attach to the bottom of the camera blocks view of the ID Tag..

http://www.digital.idv.tw/DIGITAL/dc-test/Canon/CanonEOS300D/opera/canon-eos300d-opera.htm (http://www.digital.idv.tw/DIGITAL/dc-test/Canon/CanonEOS300D/opera/canon-eos300d-opera.htm)

Again, there are both MIT and MIJ versions of the camera, so I guess it really depends on where you purchase your camera.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: Flake on April 04, 2011, 04:55:22 AM
It's interesting to take a look at the news board of DPReview where announcements are kept in date order.  Since 11 March the only announcements out of Japan have been a few firmware updates posted, (presumably well tested before the earthquake & easy to deliver over the net).

The only Japanese equipment announcements have been  a Sony Pro Camcorder 23/3 and Sigma announcing they intend to ship the DP2X camera from the end of this month.  They go to say that it will be available to buy from stores at that time so presumably stock has already been shipped from Japan.

The most positive announcement is from Fuji who have said the X100 large format 'compact' has resumed production.

If other camera manufacturers follow suit and announce when they restart production (and they do all seem to behave in the same way) then perhaps we can assume production at the main plants has not recommenced.
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: ronderick on April 07, 2011, 02:48:13 AM
I think you are correct, they were made in both places.  I stopped by Best Buy yesterday while I was buying something next door, but the keeper they attach to the bottom of the camera blocks view of the ID Tag..

Followup on the EOS 1100D: Here's a picture I just took at the showroom of a local
exhibition.

BTW, I'm not sure if the 18-55 that comes with the kit is I or II. The sales told me that there's no specific "II" printed on the lens, but you could feel the difference when rotating the lens because the new one is a lot tighter (supposedly the lens kit with 1100D is 18-55mm II).
Title: Re: The Bad News [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on April 08, 2011, 10:55:51 AM
BTW, I'm not sure if the 18-55 that comes with the kit is I or II. The sales told me that there's no specific "II" printed on the lens, but you could feel the difference when rotating the lens because the new one is a lot tighter (supposedly the lens kit with 1100D is 18-55mm II).

On the original version of the lens, the focal length scale (printed numbers) is black text on a silver ring and the registration marker (the white square to align with the lens mount) is molded and painted.  On the MkII version of the lens, the focal length numbers are white text on a black ring and the registration mark is only painted.