canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on July 13, 2012, 05:09:28 PM

Title: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Canon Rumors on July 13, 2012, 05:09:28 PM
User preference known by Canon
I have been talking to various professionals about what they think about the black AF points on Canon’s new 61 point AF system. I have yet to find one that doesn’t have at least one issue with it.

A lot of people are finding it hard and/or impossible to see which AF point is selected when shooting in dark conditions, like a wedding reception. There are also people telling me they’re having trouble tracking birds in flight with the 1D X and the black AF points.

Solution
I have been told that Canon is aware users aren’t particularly happy with the way the AF points are displayed to the shooter. I’m told there is a “solution coming” that “may not be ideal for everyone”. There is no timetable for any firmware update as of yet.

Most users want the AF system to operate like the previous 1D camera did, always lit red when AF is engaged.

I’m posting this to lend my vote to the growing number of people that want some kind of fix. I had trouble last weekend with the 1D X and tracking birds myself.

More to come.

cr

Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: bornshooter on July 13, 2012, 05:20:03 PM
looking forward to some sort of a fix hope it comes soon :)
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: max on July 13, 2012, 05:23:22 PM
I work at weddings and it drives me nuts!!

Where do I sign?
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: bosk on July 13, 2012, 05:26:08 PM
I have the Canon EOS 5D Mark III and I am not quite sure when AF is lit red. Sometimes it lits red, sometimes not. I prefer that it is always lit red!
According to which settings the AF lits red?

It is also driving me crazy!

Regards
bosk
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: RGF on July 13, 2012, 05:27:41 PM
I have a 5D M3, and after shorting extensively with the 1D series I find it a mixed blessing.   Mostly like the camera (a lot) but the black sensor pt is difficult (at times near impossible) to use.   Also miss write camera settings to card (before sending the camera back to Canon to be cleaned)
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Drizzt321 on July 13, 2012, 05:36:18 PM
I have the Canon EOS 5D Mark III and I am not quite sure when AF is lit red. Sometimes it lits red, sometimes not. I prefer that it is always lit red!
According to which settings the AF lits red?

It is also driving me crazy!

Regards
bosk

When you are changing the AF point/settings via the buttons/joystick it'll appear in red. If you use the AF point change button, they all turn on in red, which is why I'll sometimes use that button, put the AF point I want over the subject, and then start the AF and let it lock and then it'll track fine in AI Servo, even though I can't really see the AF point which is very annoying.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Rat on July 13, 2012, 05:44:38 PM
*chimes in* If AI Servo gets to have black focus points I'd be happy, always a red confirmation would be even better.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: sephknite on July 13, 2012, 06:00:48 PM
/Agreed.

The only thing I can find is have the points blink red on focus, then it turns back to black points.

Would be nice if we can see in other colors too, not just red. :D
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Lee Jay on July 13, 2012, 06:01:39 PM
I use a 5D and a 20D, and I always use them in AI-servo.  I shoot from weddings to airshows.  The unlit points have never even crossed my mind.  Is there something about the cameras in question that makes this an issue on them where it's not on my 5D and 20D?
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Drizzt321 on July 13, 2012, 06:11:52 PM
I use a 5D and a 20D, and I always use them in AI-servo.  I shoot from weddings to airshows.  The unlit points have never even crossed my mind.  Is there something about the cameras in question that makes this an issue on them where it's not on my 5D and 20D?

It's that the currently selected one is not even shown in red, even if it switches in AI Server or even in One Shot. It'll be black, focus confirm blinks it red then back to black, and then stays black.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: swampler on July 13, 2012, 06:14:57 PM
I use a 5D and a 20D, and I always use them in AI-servo.  I shoot from weddings to airshows.  The unlit points have never even crossed my mind.  Is there something about the cameras in question that makes this an issue on them where it's not on my 5D and 20D?

It's that the currently selected one is not even shown in red, even if it switches in AI Server or even in One Shot. It'll be black, focus confirm blinks it red then back to black, and then stays black.
which is just like my 50D. Was really hoping to stay red on this one. Looking forward to a fix!
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Drizzt321 on July 13, 2012, 06:27:35 PM
I use a 5D and a 20D, and I always use them in AI-servo.  I shoot from weddings to airshows.  The unlit points have never even crossed my mind.  Is there something about the cameras in question that makes this an issue on them where it's not on my 5D and 20D?

It's that the currently selected one is not even shown in red, even if it switches in AI Server or even in One Shot. It'll be black, focus confirm blinks it red then back to black, and then stays black.
which is just like my 50D. Was really hoping to stay red on this one. Looking forward to a fix!

We'll see. As CR guys said, "may not be ideal for everyone". I'll wait and see what they call the solution before deciding it's really fixed for me.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Lee Jay on July 13, 2012, 06:29:48 PM
I use a 5D and a 20D, and I always use them in AI-servo.  I shoot from weddings to airshows.  The unlit points have never even crossed my mind.  Is there something about the cameras in question that makes this an issue on them where it's not on my 5D and 20D?

It's that the currently selected one is not even shown in red, even if it switches in AI Server or even in One Shot. It'll be black, focus confirm blinks it red then back to black, and then stays black.

Isn't that what my 5D and 20D do as well?  I'm trying to figure out why this bothers anyone when I've shot >100,000 shots with mine with never a thought.  Do the points look different when unlit on these newer cameras than they do on mine?
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: funkboy on July 13, 2012, 06:33:19 PM
Quote
I have been told that Canon is aware users aren’t particularly happy with the way the AF points are displayed to the shooter. I’m told there is a “solution coming” that “may not be ideal for everyone”. There is no timetable for any firmware update as of yet.

YES! The return of Eye Controlled Focus!

meh...
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: dirtcastle on July 13, 2012, 06:48:21 PM
Effectively, they add $1000 worth of improved auto focus... and then make one little mistake that renders the improved AF handicapped in numerous situations.

[SMH]
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: TrumpetPower! on July 13, 2012, 06:58:25 PM
Add me to the chorus, please.

I'd even be happy with an option (as in, something that can be turned on and off) that sacrificed metering accuracy for various levels of viewfinder illumination.

...not that Canon is even aware that I exist as anything other than a blip in B&H's sales figures....

b&
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Drizzt321 on July 13, 2012, 07:03:14 PM
Add me to the chorus, please.

I'd even be happy with an option (as in, something that can be turned on and off) that sacrificed metering accuracy for various levels of viewfinder illumination.

...not that Canon is even aware that I exist as anything other than a blip in B&H's sales figures....

b&

If it can be tied to the DoF Preview/M.Fn button that'd be awesome! A button that's easy to hit to switch it back and forth.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: kevl on July 13, 2012, 08:05:45 PM
Add me too.

I am finding it hard to ensure critical focus in darker situations because it is hard to tell if I am on the correct point or not.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: risc32 on July 13, 2012, 08:20:05 PM
I'm using my mk3 at a paid wedding job tomorrow and i'm a bit nervous about the AF points.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: swampler on July 13, 2012, 08:22:42 PM
I use a 5D and a 20D, and I always use them in AI-servo.  I shoot from weddings to airshows.  The unlit points have never even crossed my mind.  Is there something about the cameras in question that makes this an issue on them where it's not on my 5D and 20D?

It's that the currently selected one is not even shown in red, even if it switches in AI Server or even in One Shot. It'll be black, focus confirm blinks it red then back to black, and then stays black.

Isn't that what my 5D and 20D do as well?  I'm trying to figure out why this bothers anyone when I've shot >100,000 shots with mine with never a thought.  Do the points look different when unlit on these newer cameras than they do on mine?
Yes, it's the same behavior. I do fairly well with the black AF point, but I do lose it sometimes when shooting HS football, which is always in the dark. Of course, that was center AF point only. With the multiple, usable AF points of the 5D3, that just adds difficulty to keeping the correct point on the subject.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: trowski on July 13, 2012, 08:40:05 PM
Perhaps an acceptable solution would be to just blink red when you first push the shutter or AF-On button so you can see which points are currently selected. This really wouldn't work if you had it displaying all the points, but honestly why would you want to have all those points displayed all the time? If there was enough ambient light, it wouldn't have to blink.

I used my 7D for a couple years and never noticed this problem, and it doesn't bother me much on the 5DIII... but I did notice it. Maybe it's because I usually only used the 7D outside?
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Lee Jay on July 13, 2012, 08:59:17 PM
Perhaps an acceptable solution would be to just blink red when you first push the shutter or AF-On button so you can see which points are currently selected.

That seems like what my 5D and 20D do.  Don't the new cameras do even that?  Maybe that's why it's never bothered me.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: bdunbar79 on July 13, 2012, 09:54:59 PM
I'm using my mk3 at a paid wedding job tomorrow and i'm a bit nervous about the AF points.

Use the single shot blink red option, and you don't need to worry.  You don't need to worry anyways, I've shot a ton in very low light and using center point AF I've never had a problem.  Good luck!
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on July 13, 2012, 10:05:33 PM
I use a 5D and a 20D, and I always use them in AI-servo.  I shoot from weddings to airshows.  The unlit points have never even crossed my mind.  Is there something about the cameras in question that makes this an issue on them where it's not on my 5D and 20D?
Yes!  The 61 AF points are tiny and have thin lines around them.  Those lines identifying the AF point are near invisible in low light.  The 7D has a similar setup, but with fewer and larger AF points and thick lines they are much more visible. Itd even easier to see the points on my 5D MK II, only nine of them, and they light up nicely upon focus.  You can even see them light up in the daylight, but not with the 5D MK III.
I returned mine, and am waiting for a fix.  Meanwhile, I keep using my 5D MK II and 1D MK IV
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Richard8971 on July 13, 2012, 10:47:36 PM
Ah, another reason to buy the 5D2 and the 7D! But honestly, I hope Canon is able to provide a good fix for this problem. I can't imagine that in the prototypes out there that at least one person didn't go, "um, this 'black dot' thing isn't going to work..."

D
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on July 13, 2012, 10:59:45 PM
*chimes in* If AI Servo gets to have black focus points I'd be happy, always a red confirmation would be even better.
AI servo shoots whether in focus or not.  Thats why it doesn't light.  USE AI Servo when you will be happy with near focus shots, or maybe totally out of focus shots if you force it to fire.  On the 5D MK III and 1 DX, you can select in focus priority for only the first shot, or for all shots, it depends on the subject.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: awinphoto on July 14, 2012, 12:43:03 AM
This really isn't a problem...   I just shot a wedding this last weekend and had no problems. Half the reception was only lit by ugly neon lights with no overhead lights. I shoot Ai focus personally, best of both worlds, but with the controller set for 1 touch af point select. No prob, but it comes down to how you shoot
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Richard8971 on July 14, 2012, 01:27:10 AM
The 5D Mark III by itself is a much, much more powerful tool than the 5D Mark II and 7D combined.  If you know how to use it (which most critics do NOT) you would know this.  If you are complaining about a black AF point, you really have problems to begin with in your photography anyways, so the differences between these cameras would be a non-issue.

Ah, another person who doesn't understand the meaning of 'sarcasm'. Sorry, was just poking some light-hearted humor at the "problem" at hand. (sigh) I guess that I don't know how to use my equipment so I should just keep my posts to myself.

Or better yet... maybe some 5D3 owners out there, some of them happen to be "REAL photographiers", who are having a REAL issue with this. Or maybe this is kind of like those who compalined of a "soft focus" issue with the 7D. Plenty of people scoffed at the "problem" and said it wasn't real and that it was a user issue and not a hardware issue. Google it and see how many people had the same "problem".  My own 7D had the same issue until I sent it in for an adjustment (under warranty), and now it works fine. Or maybe I just happened to "learn" how to take a photo in the week they had my Camera. (sigh again)

How about spreading some of your "wisdom" and help those who are having this issue instead of telling them that their skills "suck"? (my words)

Hmmmm.  ::)

D
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: SandyP on July 14, 2012, 01:35:11 AM
For whatever reason, I've been shooting weddings with this every weekend now, and haven't really noticed it being too much of a problem at all... would be nice if they fixed it, but seriously, it hasn't really hurt my shooting.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: pwp on July 14, 2012, 02:08:31 AM
I'm another voice waiting for a solution to the black AF points.

While I value and love the power and flexibility of the 5D3 AF, I'm amazed Canon gutted its functionality with the black AF points. I almost sent mine back too for precisely this reason.

PW
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: dirtcastle on July 14, 2012, 02:14:55 AM
Use the single shot blink red option, and you don't need to worry.

I looked for something like this in both the manual and in the menu, but couldn't find it. How do I change it?
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: briansquibb on July 14, 2012, 03:26:09 AM
The real solution to the black AF points is a 1D4  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: LostArk on July 14, 2012, 04:09:29 AM
The real solution to the black AF points is a 1D4  8) 8) 8)

You mean a D4  :'(
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: nikkito on July 14, 2012, 05:57:43 AM
well, my 5D 2 has invisible AF points in Servo, so when i get my 1D X i'll be happy to have any points, even if they're black.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: bdunbar79 on July 14, 2012, 11:20:33 AM
The 5D Mark III by itself is a much, much more powerful tool than the 5D Mark II and 7D combined.  If you know how to use it (which most critics do NOT) you would know this.  If you are complaining about a black AF point, you really have problems to begin with in your photography anyways, so the differences between these cameras would be a non-issue.

Ah, another person who doesn't understand the meaning of 'sarcasm'. Sorry, was just poking some light-hearted humor at the "problem" at hand. (sigh) I guess that I don't know how to use my equipment so I should just keep my posts to myself.

Or better yet... maybe some 5D3 owners out there, some of them happen to be "REAL photographiers", who are having a REAL issue with this. Or maybe this is kind of like those who compalined of a "soft focus" issue with the 7D. Plenty of people scoffed at the "problem" and said it wasn't real and that it was a user issue and not a hardware issue. Google it and see how many people had the same "problem".  My own 7D had the same issue until I sent it in for an adjustment (under warranty), and now it works fine. Or maybe I just happened to "learn" how to take a photo in the week they had my Camera. (sigh again)

How about spreading some of your "wisdom" and help those who are having this issue instead of telling them that their skills "suck"? (my words)

Hmmmm.  ::)

D

Ok, fair enough.  I didn't realize you were being sarcastic.  I'm big enough of a person to remove my post then, and apologize.  I'm sorry.  Your skills obviously don't suck and that isn't what I intended to say, but nonetheless, the post is gone.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: bloodstupid on July 14, 2012, 03:30:43 PM
For me personally the function like the 5D2 would be enough. I dont need it on all the time..especially if it cant be done without the light affecting measurements. Just have it the way it was before and i'm happy.
Title: Re: surprised nobody mentioned how bad it is with fast primes!
Post by: Pompo on July 14, 2012, 04:33:25 PM
I'm surprised nobody in here ever complained about using the 85L or any other fast primes! In bright daylight with those lenses the black AF points turn greyish/cream color, almost invisible since the brigheter lenses bring in a  lot more light.

The red dont even bother turning it on in daylight since with those primes 99% of times you wont even see the difference when it's lit up!
Title: Re: surprised nobody mentioned how bad it is with fast primes!
Post by: bdunbar79 on July 14, 2012, 04:45:00 PM
I'm surprised nobody in here ever complained about using the 85L or any other fast primes! In bright daylight with those lenses the back AF points turn greyish/cream color, almost invisible since the brigheter lenses bring in a  lot more light.

The red dont even bother turning it on in daylight since with those primes 99% of times you wont even see the difference when it's lit up!

1.  Yes, I'm surprised nobody complained too.  Give it time.
2.  Maybe Canon should go to bright flluorescent green AF points from now on.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: DavidRiesenberg on July 14, 2012, 05:31:39 PM
I wonder why this issue gained so much momentum with the 5D3 and 1DX when the 7D behaves the same and it's on the market for some time.
Well, whatever the reason, I'm glad that they are finally doing something to improve it.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Pompo on July 14, 2012, 05:35:42 PM
I wonder why this issue gained so much momentum with the 5D3 and 1DX when the 7D behaves the same and it's on the market for some time.
Well, whatever the reason, I'm glad that they are finally doing something to improve it.

I think for two reasons:
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on July 14, 2012, 05:59:48 PM
I wonder why this issue gained so much momentum with the 5D3 and 1DX when the 7D behaves the same and it's on the market for some time.
Well, whatever the reason, I'm glad that they are finally doing something to improve it.

Two reasons, I'd say.  First, many complaints are from 5-series and 1-series users who probably have no 7D experience. Second, subjectively I'd say the red light illumination on my 7D is 30-40% brighter than on my 1D X.

FWIW, I mentioned the issue with ultrafast lenses washing out the transmissive LCD, although it certainly wasn't phrased as a complaint.

I shot in AI Servo last night, outdoor concert, relatively poor light, no problem seeing the AF points.  In auto selection (which is my preference in AI Servo because it allows the subject to be tracked through the extent of the AF array and also activates the iTR system on the 1D X), the AF points 'dance' over the subject, making them pretty easy to see - even a Louisiana jazz musician's face.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: wickidwombat on July 14, 2012, 09:52:19 PM
I dunno what everyone is complaining about I just use the force to work out where the AF point is, doesn't everyone?

:P
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: photogaz on July 15, 2012, 03:52:30 AM
Can somebody explain to me as I'm confused.  I'm seeing comments that the AF points still glow up red?

I have a 5D Mark II at the moment and want a 5D Mark III.  When I move focus around the points glow red.  When I focus on a point, it glows red before snapping the photo.

What's changed?
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: pwp on July 15, 2012, 04:23:44 AM
I dunno what everyone is complaining about I just use the force to work out where the AF point is, doesn't everyone?
If only we were all as tuned into the Force as you. What an incredible ability!
Can somebody explain to me as I'm confused.  I'm seeing comments that the AF points still glow up red?
I have a 5D Mark II at the moment and want a 5D Mark III.  When I move focus around the points glow red.  When I focus on a point, it glows red before snapping the photo. What's changed?

Your selected 5D3 viewfinder AF point in AI Servo mode shows as black, unlike 5D2, 1D Mk4 etc which show your selected AF Point in easy to track illuminated RED. Photographers are having unexpected and unappreciated difficulty keeping their selected AF point on the subject in certain dark conditions or if the AF point is on a black suit for example. So Brian Squibb's comment that the solution to the black AF point issue is a 1D Mk4 is a completely authentic one. I'm on the lookout for a good, low mileage 1D4 as a buddy/twin for my 1D4.

Certainly it's a non-issue for some photographers, but still a very real, valid negative experience for plenty of others who don't appreciate the functionality downgrade.

PW
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: photogaz on July 15, 2012, 05:07:42 AM
So is it only in AI-Servo mode it goes black?  Does the Single Shot still glow red?
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: stefsan on July 15, 2012, 05:46:04 AM
While they're at it for the 1DX and the 5DIII, I would appreciate a fix for the 7D as well. Normally it's not a problem causing me much trouble but I would definitely prefer the red focus point indicators in all shooting modes.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on July 15, 2012, 07:08:19 AM
So is it only in AI-Servo mode it goes black?  Does the Single Shot still glow red?

Yes, if you set it to always illuminate.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: sandymandy on July 15, 2012, 07:29:06 AM
(http://www.abload.de/img/terrortealp5zgy.jpg)

this would be the perfect color cuz there arent so many situations where u get a color similar to it :D
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: markko on July 15, 2012, 03:41:31 PM
So is it only in AI-Servo mode it goes black?  Does the Single Shot still glow red?

Yes, if you set it to always illuminate.

What option on my 5Dmk3 am I missing to make this happen? I always shoot Single Shot and never see the focus points red (except for when they gained focus).

There is not much to complain about with the 5Dmk3, but missing the red focus point(s) is by far my number one complaint about the camera.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: photophreek on July 15, 2012, 05:06:00 PM
Pages 102 and 103 of the 5D  IIImanual(probably exactly the same for the 1Dx)  describes when and what color how the AF points will be illuminated.  As with the 7d, the AF Selection button must be pressed first and then the AF points will be illuminated and the VF grid will be illuminated in red.  This will only happen when in One Shot or AI focus mode and not if AI Servo is selected as the drive mode.  The 7d does exactly the same thing. 

With the 1D IV, you can make the AF point brighter and have the RED AF point on all the time in One Shot mode (there s no AI Focus available for the 1D IV or the 1Dx).  When in AI Servo using the 1D IV, with all 45 points selected in continuos shooting and Spot Metering linked to the AF point, the locked AF point will illuminate in red.   Hope this helps.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Rat on July 15, 2012, 05:18:34 PM
So is it only in AI-Servo mode it goes black?  Does the Single Shot still glow red?

Yes, if you set it to always illuminate.

What option on my 5Dmk3 am I missing to make this happen? I always shoot Single Shot and never see the focus points red (except for when they gained focus).

There is not much to complain about with the 5Dmk3, but missing the red focus point(s) is by far my number one complaint about the camera.
"Always illuminate" doesn't mean that they stay illuminated, it means that they are always illuminated when focus is achieved, and indeed, only in One Shot mode. That's the behaviour you're already familiar with. Also, while manually selecting, the focus points become red. Other than that, it's all black. This is what is bugging people: they want a red flash in AI Servo as well.

Relevant page in the manual is 103 (Customizing AF Functions/VF display illumination); in the menu it's AF5>VF display illumination.

*chimes in* If AI Servo gets to have black focus points I'd be happy, always a red confirmation would be even better.
AI servo shoots whether in focus or not.  Thats why it doesn't light.  USE AI Servo when you will be happy with near focus shots, or maybe totally out of focus shots if you force it to fire.  On the 5D MK III and 1 DX, you can select in focus priority for only the first shot, or for all shots, it depends on the subject.
First of all, I found the option "AF point display during focus" (manual: page 102, menu: AF5>AF point display during focus) which gives me the used focus points during AI Servo. I probably disabled that while toying around, which I've done a lot over the past month and a half :D The "always show me black focus points in AI Servo" question was ill researched on my part and is now solved as far as I'm concerned :)

As for the remainder of your post: I know you can control focus or speed priority :) The 5D3 (I don't have the 1DX) can actually require focus, always shoot, or try to be clever about it. I have required focus set for 2nd shot and onwards, it's just the first picture that I'm allowing for the machine trying to balance speed and focus.

I'd be happy if it only lit up when perfect focus is achieved, but it doesn't even do that. It just NEVER lites up in AI Servo. And again: that's the issue at stake here.

BTW: does anyone EVER use AI Focus? :P

edit: well thank you Photophreek, way to beat me to it ;)
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Bob_McBob on July 15, 2012, 07:52:31 PM
I find the "always illuminate" mode even more annoying than just turning it off completely. I don't want the entire screen (all focus points as well as gridlines when enabled) to flash a glowing bright red every time I focus. I just want the selected AF point to give the same clear visual indicator of being selected and achieving focus as every single other Canon DSLR I've owned. It's such a glaring omission that I spent an hour or two trying to figure out which setting I had wrong when I first got my 5D3.

Keep in mind that the lens also flashes bright red when you use viewfinder illumination, so anyone looking at the front of your camera gets a clear visual indicator of when you are focusing. Others have reported that this is quite a problem when trying to shoot candid photos, especially in low light conditions where it's even more obvious.

I hadn't actually read about the low contrast display issue with fast lenses until today. I just tried my 50/1.4 on the 5D3 for the first time, and all the display features are now a light grey that provides very poor contrast and makes the selected point even harder to see.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: pwp on July 15, 2012, 07:52:58 PM
(http://www.abload.de/img/terrortealp5zgy.jpg)
this would be the perfect color cuz there arent so many situations where u get a color similar to it :D
...which is why I use this as my grid colour in Photoshop. Not sure about this colour as a focus point though.
Red is perfectly fine, proven and not as visually jarring like the bright aqua blue.

PW
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: wickidwombat on July 15, 2012, 07:54:06 PM
So is it only in AI-Servo mode it goes black?  Does the Single Shot still glow red?

Yes, if you set it to always illuminate.

however even then its pretty dim and in contrasty light (shooting into the sun) impossible to see
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: bdunbar79 on July 15, 2012, 08:01:09 PM
(http://www.abload.de/img/terrortealp5zgy.jpg)
this would be the perfect color cuz there arent so many situations where u get a color similar to it :D
...which is why I use this as my grid colour in Photoshop. Not sure about this colour as a focus point though.
Red is perfectly fine, proven and not as visually jarring like the bright aqua blue.

PW

But birght aqua blue is much more fun PW
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: pwp on July 15, 2012, 08:14:48 PM
BTW: does anyone EVER use AI Focus? :P

Errm... Rat, so you're just saying that you don't use AI Focus.

Sometime last century when I was a junior staff photographer on a metropolitan daily newspaper, I sometimes processed and printed the films sent back from major football games shot by a genius photographer who had an uncanny and rare ability to track focus almost 100% accurately with his manual focus Nikon 600 f/4. His unique sports shots consistently won national awards.

Fast forward to 2012. Now mere mortals can deliver consistent sharp images from action sports once they learn the strengths and weaknesses of their AI Focus function. Skilled action shooters can deliver shots that previously could barely even be contemplated. Look back at award winning sports images from 25 years ago. Today they'd barely make the cut. Thanks AI Focus (& high iso performance)

If all you shoot is static subjects then you're unlikely to use AI Servo. But most action shots you see whether they be action sports or a bride walking down the aisle, you can be pretty sure AI Servo helped deliver the goods.

PW
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on July 15, 2012, 08:45:16 PM
Thanks AI Focus (& high iso performance)

If all you shoot is static subjects then you're unlikely to use AI Servo. But most action shots you see whether they be action sports or a bride walking down the aisle, you can be pretty sure AI Servo helped deliver the goods.

Quite likely true about AI Servo. But...AI Servo is not the same as AI Focus.  Pros using 1-series bodies aren't using AI Focus - they can't, because it's not an option.  I actually didn't know that until I noticed its absence on my 1D X - One Shot and AI Servo are the only options.  In AI Focus, the camera acts like One Shot until it detects the subject is moving, then it switches to AI Servo.  In my experience, it's ok sometimes, especially if the subject starts moving abruptly but moves slowly, else it's often playing catch-up and missing focus.  I'm guessing that's why Rat made that comment...
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Rat on July 15, 2012, 09:04:34 PM
Thanks AI Focus (& high iso performance)

If all you shoot is static subjects then you're unlikely to use AI Servo. But most action shots you see whether they be action sports or a bride walking down the aisle, you can be pretty sure AI Servo helped deliver the goods.

Quite likely true about AI Servo. But...AI Servo is not the same as AI Focus. (...)  In my experience, it's ok sometimes, especially if the subject starts moving abruptly but moves slowly, else it's often playing catch-up and missing focus.  I'm guessing that's why Rat made that comment...
That's what I was aiming at. It's true I'm just saying I don't use AI Focus, but it is equally true I use AI Servo all the time - and it struck me that while I see discussions about AI Servo everywhere, I rarely read anything about AI Focus except for the odd 'useless as usual'. This is pretty much the first non-negative comment I've read about it :) I was just being curious if sb had any good experience with it at all, though I still can't imagine what it is good for. Baby photography or something? ;)

Keep in mind that the lens also flashes bright red when you use viewfinder illumination, so anyone looking at the front of your camera gets a clear visual indicator of when you are focusing. Others have reported that this is quite a problem when trying to shoot candid photos, especially in low light conditions where it's even more obvious.
Interesting observation and it is indeed rather visible. Canon, if you make the focus points red in AI Servo, pls give us a disable  ;D And of course I'll keep it in mind, esp for street photography, thanks!
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: pwp on July 15, 2012, 11:06:49 PM
Thanks AI Focus (& high iso performance)

If all you shoot is static subjects then you're unlikely to use AI Servo. But most action shots you see whether they be action sports or a bride walking down the aisle, you can be pretty sure AI Servo helped deliver the goods.
Quite likely true about AI Servo. But...AI Servo is not the same as AI Focus.  Pros using 1-series bodies aren't using AI Focus - they can't, because it's not an option.

Hah! True, I owe Rat an apology. Sorry Mr Rat. As I have primarily used 1-Series bodies and just recently got a 5D3, AI FOCUS has been completely off my radar. It's quite likely off most photographers radar. I just read AI focus as AI Servo. I'm sure there are shooters who value the function, but like you I can barely see the point.

It's absence from 1-Series bodies speaks volumes. It looks like an invention from the marketing department who wanted more boxes to tick for consumer sales.

PW
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Jared on July 16, 2012, 07:12:06 AM
Just because it hasn't been pointed out in plain black and white (and red) yet *insert Dr. Sheldon Cooper snigger/laugh*:

The 1DX and 5D3 both utilise a transmissive LCD screen overlay in the viewfinder allowing the af points, grid lines and other information to be displayed and removed at your whim. This is supposed to be advanced technology and a breakthrough of some sort, however it has also been the bane of our gripes with the new af system: no user-replaceable viewfinder screens, a dimmer viewfinder (especially so when the battery is removed completely from the camera - try it), and a lowered intensity of red light illumination.

The LCD is illuminated from the peripherae by small red LEDs when called upon. The red illumination isn't as intense as that in say a 1Ds3, 1D4, 5D2 etc. as the polarisable molecules in the transmissive LCD are what must scatter the red light back to the viewers eye and are unable to do so with as great an efficiency as the physically permanent af points etched into the plastic (or glass) of the afore-mentioned cameras focusing screens.

This means that it's unlikely Canon will be able to do anything about the dim red lighting when focus is achieved during daylight, which is somewhat useful when focusing - and a whole lot better on say the 5D2.

However, what Canon can do is offer an option such that the points are constantly illuminated when in AI Servo and thus the active af points will be lit red. This would concomitantly illuminate the grid if it is being displayed.

Hope that clears things up..
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on July 16, 2012, 11:26:40 AM
Just because it hasn't been pointed out in plain black and white (and red) yet *insert Dr. Sheldon Cooper snigger/laugh*:

The 1DX and 5D3 both utilise a transmissive LCD screen overlay in the viewfinder allowing the af points, grid lines and other information to be displayed and removed at your whim. This is supposed to be advanced technology and a breakthrough of some sort, however it has also been the bane of our gripes with the new af system: no user-replaceable viewfinder screens....

Sheldon thinks he's smart, but even Wil Wheaton would know that the 1D X does, in fact, offer user-replaceable focus screens...
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Rat on July 16, 2012, 04:41:25 PM
Hah! True, I owe Rat an apology.
No you don't, not after that nice melancholic expose about ye olden days :)  Thanks for the additional input!
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: kevl on July 23, 2012, 01:17:46 AM
I shot a wedding yesterday and the reception was in an exceedingly dark location. Not just the dance but the whole meal and speeches... It was a REAL pain to have to keep moving my focus point in order to see where I had it selected.

Not cool. :(
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: bloodstupid on September 05, 2012, 05:22:09 AM
Anything new about when we will be getting our firmware update?
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: M.ST on September 05, 2012, 06:11:56 AM
If you ask Canon you got the answer, that they are working on it.

Nothing more.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Marsu42 on September 05, 2012, 06:44:14 AM
If you ask Canon you got the answer, that they are working on it.

Question is: What are they working on? They already said the solution will not make everybody happy, and if there weren't major problems they'd implemented the af indicators in the production models already. So unless they'll release an updated 5d3s/1dxs af, they might be delaying and working on a least painful way to tell that it's either af indicators or precise metering, the latter is supposed to be the reason the dots are black.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Viggo on September 05, 2012, 04:05:25 PM
Maybe they make it light red when it's selected and goes black when you meter. You can track with it that way, but it will go black when shutter is pressed.

So then you HAVE to use AF_ON button to focus. Well, I've gotten VERY used to that, thanks to tip from this site, so I can live with that.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: keithfullermusic on September 05, 2012, 05:47:39 PM
i think their solution is to do nothing - so they were right when they said not everyone would be happy.
Title: Re: AF Point Color on the 5D Mark III & 1D X Update [CR2]
Post by: Pompo on September 05, 2012, 05:51:45 PM
i may be buying "slower lenses" like the 24-70 2.8 so at least I can see the dang black points in bright light