canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => EOS Bodies - For Stills => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on July 23, 2012, 12:05:18 AM

Title: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Canon Rumors on July 23, 2012, 12:05:18 AM
Put Your Creativity Into Motion With The New EOS M Digital Camera
The Newest Camera in Canon’s Lineup Delivers Exceptional EOS Full HD Video Quality with Continuous Autofocus and an Expansive Selection of Lenses

LAKE SUCCESS, N.Y., July 23, 2012 – Combining the perfect blend of advanced video features and excellent still image quality in a convenient size, Canon U.S.A., Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, today announced the EOS M Digital Camera. Canon has made significant advancements in the realm of professional-quality HD video capture, from advanced CMOS sensor technology to smooth, quiet continuous autofocus. Inspired by EOS technology, the EOS M leverages these core technologies and distills them down to provide outstanding video capture capabilities while retaining high-quality still image capture. When shooting still images, the EOS M camera’s 18-megapixel APS-C-sized CMOS image sensor provides a shallow depth of field, incredible low-light image quality and a wide dynamic range to capture rich gradation and detail.

This new addition to the EOS family offers a great solution to videographers and photographers of all levels, with two new lenses designed specifically for Canon’s new camera format – the EF-M 22mm f/2 STM kit lens and the optional EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM lens– and the ability to use the full line of Canon EF and EF-S lenses through the optional Mount Adapter EF-EOS M.

“The EOS M includes a unique feature set making it an ideal movie-making tool while offering incredible still image quality on its APS-C-sized CMOS sensor. The camera’s size, image quality, advanced video capabilities and the versatility of Canon’s full lineup of lenses make the EOS M another great option to help our customers record and capture their creative vision,” said Yuichi Ishizuka, executive vice president and general manager, Imaging Technologies & Communications Group, Canon U.S.A.

Product Specifications and Features:

• EOS Full HD Movie mode with Movie Servo AF for continuous focus tracking of moving subjects also includes:

• Manual exposure control

• Multiple resolution frame rates

• Built-in stereo microphone

• Manual audio level adjustment

• Video Snapshot mode with touch-screen editing

• 18.0-megapixel APS-C CMOS sensor

• ISO 100–6400 (expandable to 12800 in H mode) for video recording, ISO 100 – 12800 (expandable to 25600 in H mode) for still image shooting from bright to dim light and high performance Powerful DIGIC 5 Image Processor for exceptional image quality video and photos

• Hybrid CMOS AF delivers fast autofocus speed for video and photos

• Touch Screen 3.0-inch Clear View LCD monitor II (approximately 1,040,000 dots) with smudge-resistant coating features multi-touch operation allowing photographers to use familiar gestures such as “pinch-to-zoom” and “swiping” to scroll between pictures and Touch AF for an easy and intuitive video capture experience

• Scene Intelligent Auto mode delivers expertly optimized photos and scene detection for amazing results even when shooting at night

• Advanced imaging features like Handheld Night Scene mode, HDR Backlight Control mode, and seven Creative Filters provide added versatility

• Multi-shot Noise Reduction helps preserve precious detail in photos at high ISO speeds

• Compatible with SD/SDHC/SDXC memory cards, including new Ultra High Speed (UHS-I) cards

• Compatible with all Canon Speedlite accessories including the new Speedlite 600EX and Speedlite Transmitter ST-E3-RT

• Compatible with Canon’s GPS Receiver GP-E2

An Advanced Video Capture Device The EOS M utilizes Canon’s Hybrid CMOS AF system to deliver fast autofocus speed for both video and photos. The Hybrid CMOS AF system truly shines when shooting video with EOS Full HD Movie mode including Movie Servo AF for continuous autofocus and tracking of moving subjects. The Hybrid CMOS AF system is located on the CMOS sensor itself and combines phase-difference AF and contrast AF to achieve operational stability, speed and precision. The Movie Servo AF function on the EOS M is enabled by default which keeps images on the rear screen in constant focus, even before the shutter is pressed. This continual focus makes for sharp video capture in a snap or to help reduce shutter lag due to focusing when still images want to be shot. The camera employs three AF methods for video and photos, Face Detection & Tracking AF, Multi-Point AF for automatics selection and Single-Point AF, where users select one of 31 AF points. Through the camera’s touch-panel operation, subject recognition and tracking is engaged at the touch of a finger, allowing users to track subjects accurately and focus on intended subjects with ease. In addition to subject tracking, the touch-panel LCD allows for simple, intuitive operation, menu navigation and touch features making it easy to shoot video and photos.

Thanks to Canon’s new Stepping Motor (STM) technology, when using either of the newly announced M-series lenses – the EF-M 22mm f/2 STM kit lens or the optional EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM lens – the AF system remains silent, helping ensure users only capture the sound of the scene being recorded. The EOS M also features manual audio level control to 64 levels, a built-in stereo microphone, which includes a wind filter and an attenuator function to reduce audio distortion in extra loud situations. The EOS M records MPEG-4 AVC H.264 video as an .MOV file in a range of NTSC and PAL professional frame rates, including 1080p Full HD video at 30p (29.97), 24p (23.976) and 25p, 720p HD video at 60p (59.94) or 50p and Standard Definition video at 30p (29.97) or 25p.

In addition to the creativity afforded by over 70 compatible lenses, the EOS M also includes Picture Style settings – including custom Picture Styles – when shooting video, allowing users to adjust color settings the same as when shooting still images. The camera also includes Canon’s Video Snapshot mode for an easy way to record and create a fun highlight reel that can be easily shared. Video Snapshot mode combines a series of short video clips into a single file, all in-camera. Through the camera’s touch-screen controls users can delete, cut or re-order the clips in-camera for quick and easy editing.

Optical Diversity: New M-Series Lenses and Accessories Along with the EOS M, Canon is also introducing two new M-series lenses – with new EOS M mounts –that include STM technology allowing for smooth and silent focusing when paired with Hybrid CMOS AF.

The EF-M 22mm f/2 STM kit lens is ideal for shooting video and still images. The fixed focal length lens has a great capacity for gathering light with an incredible aperture of f/2 and when combined with the camera’s APS-C image sensor, provide beautiful bright images and background blur for both video and stills. For more focal range versatility, Canon is also introducing the new EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM, which provides videographers and photographers with a variable zoom range for general use with video recording or photographing. Both lenses are designed specifically for use with the EOS M digital camera.

In addition to the two lenses, any of Canon’s EF and EF-S lenses can be used with the EOS M with the optional Mount Adapter EF-EOS M. The EOS M camera’s strong magnesium and stainless steel frame provide the durability and rigidity to support the full line of EF and EF-S Lenses in a lightweight convenient design. Using the adapter allows the camera to be fully integrated into the EOS ecosystem of lenses, adding creative options and versatility to this powerful camera.

Ideal for use with the EOS M, Canon is also announcing a new compact and lightweight flash unit, the Speedlite 90EX, designed for the photographer on the go. The Speedlite 90EX is capable of coverage for 24mm wide angle lenses (35mm equivalent) with maximum guide numbers of 30 feet (9 meters) at ISO 100. The flash unit can be controlled wirelessly for creative multiple flash shoots and uses the standard Canon EOS hot shoe mount for compatibility with all EOS DSLR cameras and PowerShot digital cameras that include a hot shoe.

Availability The EOS M Digital Camera bundled with the new EF-M 22mm f/2 STM kit lens will be available in October for an estimated retail price of $799.99. Also a white version of the EOS M Digital Camera bundled with the new EF-M 22mm f/2 STM kit lens will be exclusively available through the Canon Online store, shop.usa.canon.com.

The new EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM lens, Mount Adapter EF-EOS M and Speedlite 90EX will all be available in October at an estimated retail price of $299.99, $199.99 and $149.99 respectively.

Canon EOS M with the Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II

Title: Re: Canon EOS M Official
Post by: sanj on July 23, 2012, 12:14:04 AM
Ok.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M Official
Post by: trygved on July 23, 2012, 12:21:54 AM
I must admit the 70-200L looks charming with that Altoids tin on the back of it.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Phenix205 on July 23, 2012, 01:01:49 AM

<div id=\"attachment_10746\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"width: 585px\"><a href=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/canon_EOS-M_with_70-200mm.jpeg\"><img class=\"size-medium wp-image-10746\" title=\"canon_EOS-M_with_70-200mm\" src=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/canon_EOS-M_with_70-200mm-575x431.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"575\" height=\"431\" /></a><p class=\"wp-caption-text\">Canon EOS M with the Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II</p></div>
[/html]

This was image that came to my mind first when I heard about the M. With continuous AF, it could make a nice video camera.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: peederj on July 23, 2012, 01:03:32 AM
Rebel without a cause.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: noble_elm on July 23, 2012, 01:26:45 AM
I've been deriding the look of the Sony NEX camera but when I tried holding it (the 5N and 7), they feel good not awkward.

Looking at the pictures today (especially with the 18-55mm lenses), I realized that the Canon mirrorless look only slightly better than the NEX but will possibly not as well due to the almost non-existent grip.

Oh, and it seems too expensive for the features
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Wiki Tango on July 23, 2012, 01:36:06 AM
and a promo vid on youtube  ;D right now 83 views....

The Canon EOS M - Small and simple EOS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vneVnFv3pz0#ws)
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: telephonic on July 23, 2012, 01:38:33 AM
Anyone slapped this thing onto the rear of EF 1200/5.6L? Or at least EF 800/5.6L, if 1200 is too difficult.  ;D
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: thebowtie on July 23, 2012, 01:47:16 AM
I've been deriding the look of the Sony NEX camera but when I tried holding it (the 5N and 7), they feel good not awkward.

Looking at the pictures today (especially with the 18-55mm lenses), I realized that the Canon mirrorless look only slightly better than the NEX but will possibly not as well due to the almost non-existent grip.

Oh, and it seems too expensive for the features
Perhaps we are misunderstanding the intended market position?
I think this might be (with the 22mm STM kit lens) - a photojournalism camera.
Maybe Canon are pitching this as a competitor to the Leica M9?
If so, then it's attractively priced!  ;)
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: tomsop on July 23, 2012, 01:50:57 AM
If this is the same as a Rebel T4i minus the viewfinder and other parts, I do not understand the benefits of mirror less.  I would be interested in seeing side by side comparison shots to see what provides better quality.  I was in the market for a rebel but hesitant given the lack of improvement of video quality with the t4i.   I am now more interested in this EOS M camera than the rebel.  I also like the compact and don't care about the loss of a viewfinder - we are all trained by now not to use one thanks to the iPhone. 
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: caruser on July 23, 2012, 02:36:56 AM
I would be interested in seeing side by side comparison shots to see what provides better quality.

Since they seem to use the same sensor I wouldn't expect any great differences...
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: wickidwombat on July 23, 2012, 02:41:29 AM
damn that video settles it i'm definately not trendy enough to have that camera then :(  :'(
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: AtSea on July 23, 2012, 02:43:11 AM
So, $800 + an EF Adapter for $200 = $1000.

I'd rather buy a used 5D for $750 with a 40 pancake for $200 = $950.

That's just me. I get that they have different purposes, but for mine, that'd be the more preferable option.

Losing video and *perhaps* portability? But gaining a professional body and image quality for the same price.

This may have been a different story had the price been sub $400-500 with the EF adapter. As it stands now, it's a camera that doesn't know what it wants to be (my concern with Nikon's mirror less as well). I'm not going to dish out $1000. If I want to go the tiny point and shoot route I'd go with the s100 for $350
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: simonxu11 on July 23, 2012, 02:56:10 AM
The AF speed in another video looks like this was a camera from 2 years ago, much slower than nikon 1, olympus ep, panasonic G and sony nex. Maybe a bit faster than the xpro-1. Then what's the point to add ef or efs lens on it.
If you want to use some vintage lenses, there's no peak focus.

Fail
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Gcon on July 23, 2012, 04:49:27 AM
God I watched that promo video and it was so awkward. The argument of "people focus like that on an iphone so it's fine". what?   Um no. Putting it up to your head via VF stabilises the camera greatly.

I don't know who this is aimed at? I see it aimed at pretty sad people - they can't be "confused by all those buttons" on a rebel, but want to be seen as being cool and hip with interchangeable lenses.  Sorry but holding the camera out in front of you with all auto settings like a total idiot just doesn't cut it. Putting a big lens on the end - you've just lost pocket ability, and any possible reason for this camera being in existence.

The pic of this camera hanging off the back of the 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II USM is sad. Very sad.

If this is the reason for my 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM being delayed, then I'll be well pissed!!
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: traveller on July 23, 2012, 06:00:49 AM
damn that video settles it i'm definately not trendy enough to have that camera then :(  :'(

This guy seems a bit of a food fetishist.  I thought he was going to do a bit of perving when he pulled out the camera as the girl approached, boringly she turns out to be his girlfriend.  I guess the message that Canon wants to give out is that buying an EOS-M will make you French.   ::)  All in all, a pretty predictable and lame promo video. 
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: weixing on July 23, 2012, 06:25:11 AM
Hi,
   IMHO, since it can also use EOS lens, I won't be surprise that it'll sell well.

   Just wonder will someone come out with an adapter for FD lens...  ???

   Have a nice day.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: elflord on July 23, 2012, 06:29:58 AM
So, $800 + an EF Adapter for $200 = $1000.

I'd rather buy a used 5D for $750 with a 40 pancake for $200 = $950.

But you're comparing a third generation camera with a current first generation camera. The first generation full frame Canon is currently about $3300 (or more).

Alternatively, third generation mirrorless cameras sell for about $250.

Basically, those who don't have "new toy syndrome" can save substantially by waiting a little for someone else to eat the early adopter premium.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: thebowtie on July 23, 2012, 06:33:33 AM
In addition to the two lenses, any of Canon’s EF and EF-S lenses can be used with the EOS M with the optional Mount Adapter EF-EOS M.

Just thinking - this makes for an expensive lens cap!
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: brad-man on July 23, 2012, 07:15:45 AM
In addition to the two lenses, any of Canon’s EF and EF-S lenses can be used with the EOS M with the optional Mount Adapter EF-EOS M.

Just thinking - this makes for an expensive lens cap!

I look forward to version 2. With the digic 5 processor they should be able to meet/approach  7D autofocus and frame rates if they so choose...
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Canon-F1 on July 23, 2012, 08:29:53 AM
now that the soccer mom mirrorless is released i wait for the PRO model.

i guess it will be priced around 1200 euro.

if only canon would announce it already. :(
i really want a mirrorless backup body.



Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Neeneko on July 23, 2012, 08:31:08 AM
So... another camera where video is the big selling point?

At some point Canon needs to just drop the pretense of being a camera company and admit that they are making camcorders in camera form factor.

Thus I go 'meh'.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Chewy734 on July 23, 2012, 08:43:31 AM
saw the video...  damn that guy is smooth...  he whipped out a flash out of nowhere.  ::)
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Canon-F1 on July 23, 2012, 08:43:59 AM
by the way.. i hate that the sensor is not protected in all these mirrorless cameras.

yeah i know... there are layers above the actuall sensor.

anyway... i don´t know but it gives me a "bad feeling".
i can really feel how it attracts dust, brrrrrhhhh.

im able to clean a sensor.. but what will the average joe user do?
grab an old cleaning rag and smear all over the sensor?   ;)
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: pdirestajr on July 23, 2012, 09:34:39 AM
My opinion is that this is a "good start" for their new system. This is for Best Buy and should beat up on the Nikon-1. I'll wait for the 3rd gen of the EOS-M. Not in a rush.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: TW on July 23, 2012, 09:58:07 AM
Well, I'm hearing an awful lot of bad-mouthing about a product that is not yet even available, from a bunch of folks who probably have no intention of purchasing it in the first place. I'd say that is a pretty good definition of NOISE. To which my response is: "Shhhh."

I'd say this looks to be a pretty nice litttle camera, with some pretty nice little lenses, and a pretty nice little flash.

For me, the flash is the most interesting piece of all. I'll be grabbing one of those as soon as they become available. Looks ready-made for 5Dii daytime fill-flash, eh?
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: TrumpetPower! on July 23, 2012, 10:40:45 AM
As I've been predicting, this is the start of the merging of the top end of the PowerShot series and the Rebel series. It's the latest Rebel in a PowerShot body, basically.

This camera isn't for me, but I don't have any Rebels nor PowerShot cameras, and I don't have any interest in such. However, many moons ago when I bought the original Digital Rebel as an upgrade from an Olympus superzoom P&S (my first camera), the EOS-M would have been very tempting, indeed. You get the latest-and-greatest APS-C sensor in a minuscule body and an entry-level price, plus you can mount almost any lens ever made.

I'm curious, though: what's the Shorty McForty look like mounted to this thing with the adapter? I'm guessing it won't be anywhere near as much of a pancake at that point.

Then again, I don't think 40mm is an exciting focal length on APS-C. Personally, were I to buy this camera, I doubt I'd ever take off the 22mm pancake...but, once more, I've already got a 5DIII with the ShortyMcForty body cap, so why would I want an EOS-M?

Cheers,

b&
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Jamesy on July 23, 2012, 10:45:45 AM

For me, the flash is the most interesting piece of all. I'll be grabbing one of those as soon as they become available. Looks ready-made for 5Dii daytime fill-flash, eh?

Any idea if the flash system on this camera is compatible with the 580EXII's or the 270EXII? I know it is a new flash type, it would suck if it were not compatible.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: mws on July 23, 2012, 10:48:21 AM
My opinion is that this is a "good start" for their new system. This is for Best Buy and should beat up on the Nikon-1. I'll wait for the 3rd gen of the EOS-M. Not in a rush.

I agree. It will be interesting to see how this goes. Especially since Canon said there will be a "pro version" whatever that means.

Also does anyone have any idea about the EF adapter? Is there a glass element in it? Or is it just a tube with some electrical contacts? At 200 it seems pricey for a tube but cheap for some glass.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: TW on July 23, 2012, 11:13:04 AM

Also does anyone have any idea about the EF adapter? Is there a glass element in it? Or is it just a tube with some electrical contacts? At 200 it seems pricey for a tube but cheap for some glass.

I believe all the EOS flashes are compatible with the EOS-M, and vice-versa, per B&H website info.

Also, the adapter has no glass at all, just a spacer with contacts, but I dont know if it is passive or active (contains circuitry). Either way, I agree $200 seems high. $100 would seem to be a more appropriate price level, to me. $200 seems "gougey", like Canon is saying "you have no choice, so pay up!" 
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: ablearcher on July 23, 2012, 11:20:57 AM
Excellent. Now that we can put the new toy&gadget news out of the way we (and hopefully Canon)  can concentrate on the new affordable FF body which everybody is (actually) waiting for.  Hey Canon, can we have a new cam for photography now please?
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: neuroanatomist on July 23, 2012, 12:15:13 PM
$200 seems "gougey", like Canon is saying "you have no choice, so pay up!"

Lol.  Ever buy a Canon-branded lens hood?!?
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Jamesy on July 23, 2012, 12:18:53 PM

I believe all the EOS flashes are compatible with the EOS-M, and vice-versa, per B&H website info.
Thanks for that - I wonder why they just didn't go with the 270EX2 for this camera - the new flash looks just like the 270ex2.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Caps18 on July 23, 2012, 12:24:31 PM
It has potential, and as a backup camera it would still work.   Does it shoot RAW?  I'm waiting to see if the update the G line to compete with this.  I still have my initial reservations.

I do wish that the sensor was protected from dust somehow.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: TrumpetPower! on July 23, 2012, 12:34:30 PM
Does it shoot RAW?

Yes.

Quote
I'm waiting to see if the update the G line to compete with this.

Frankly, the G line is dead. The EOS-M is being introduced at the exact same price as the G1 X -- that alone should be all the confirmation you need of the demise of the G line.

And look for new Rebels to all be EOS-M as well.

Cheers,

b&
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Random Orbits on July 23, 2012, 12:35:19 PM
$200 seems "gougey", like Canon is saying "you have no choice, so pay up!"

Lol.  Ever buy a Canon-branded lens hood?!?

Oh yeah, Canon lens hoods are much worse!
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: neuroanatomist on July 23, 2012, 12:43:51 PM
Frankly, the G line is dead.

...until the G2 X comes out next year, at any rate.  The G1 X is outselling the Nikon 1 on Amazon.  Believe it or not, there are people out there that don't want to muck about with changing lenses.  Just no one on this forum...

The EOS-M is being introduced at the exact same price as the G1 X -- that alone should be all the confirmation you need of the demise of the G line.

There are like 20 PowerShots all within a few $$ of each other.  How does the fact that two different types of cameras have a similar price mean one is going away?
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Random Orbits on July 23, 2012, 12:46:39 PM
Frankly, the G line is dead. The EOS-M is being introduced at the exact same price as the G1 X -- that alone should be all the confirmation you need of the demise of the G line.

And look for new Rebels to all be EOS-M as well.

Cheers,

b&

I'm curious what Canon is planning to do with the G1 X sensor... what else is it used in?  Also curious as to how quickly the AF works -- is it as fast as the phase-detect of a regular Rebel?

Agree that the M-mount will threaten the EF-S mount.  This smaller mount will allow the lenses to get smaller/lighter.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: mesa on July 23, 2012, 12:52:48 PM
How is hand-held video going to turn out on the EOS-M /w 22mm pancake without IS? It probably yields similar results as 5D3 /w the 40mm pancake I am guessing.  Canon should really incorporate IS into the EOS-M.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: TW on July 23, 2012, 12:57:57 PM
$200 seems "gougey", like Canon is saying "you have no choice, so pay up!"

Lol.  Ever buy a Canon-branded lens hood?!?

Yup, and I held my nose while I did it. Big difference there, though; there are alternative sources for lens hoods. Not so for this, at least for a while, I'd say.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: TrumpetPower! on July 23, 2012, 01:03:02 PM
Frankly, the G line is dead.

...until the G2 X comes out next year, at any rate.  The G1 X is outselling the Nikon 1 on Amazon.  Believe it or not, there are people out there that don't want to muck about with changing lenses.  Just no one on this forum...

The EOS-M is being introduced at the exact same price as the G1 X -- that alone should be all the confirmation you need of the demise of the G line.

There are like 20 PowerShots all within a few $$ of each other.  How does the fact that two different types of cameras have a similar price mean one is going away?

The point is that EOS-M gets you a camera that's the same size as the G1 X with better specs at the same price. And there's nothing that says that you actually have to take the lens off a removable lens camera. How many people own automatic transmission cars with "sport shifting" who never put the car in anything other than park, drive, and reverse?

The EOS-M with the 22mm lens is actually a bit smaller than the G1 X, and decidedly more pocketable. With the new standard zoom, it sticks out a little bit more than does the G1 X, but not by enough to change the pocketability question. So, if you get the EOS-M, all you have to do to switch between a better party camera than the G1 X and a better photographic tool than the G1 X is swap the lens. A lot of people who never would have thought of getting a removable lens camera will realize just that due to Canon's very intelligent move of releasing those two lenses at the same time as the camera...and those are exactly the same people who would otherwise be buying a G1 X.

b&
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: brad-man on July 23, 2012, 01:08:29 PM
$200 seems "gougey", like Canon is saying "you have no choice, so pay up!"

Lol.  Ever buy a Canon-branded lens hood?!?

Yup, and I held my nose while I did it. Big difference there, though; there are alternative sources for lens hoods. Not so for this, at least for a while, I'd say.


Think of it as a $140 ef25II ext tube + a $60 tripod foot, though switching to portrait appears to be via the ballhead...

Hello Kenko
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Random Orbits on July 23, 2012, 01:08:52 PM
Does the EOS M camera have MFA?  That would be a big factor for me for using it as a backup.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: mws on July 23, 2012, 01:16:57 PM
Does the EOS M camera have MFA?  That would be a big factor for me for using it as a backup.

Doubtful, the 50D was lowest model to have it. Would be nice though.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Axilrod on July 23, 2012, 01:20:33 PM
So... another camera where video is the big selling point?

At some point Canon needs to just drop the pretense of being a camera company and admit that they are making camcorders in camera form factor.

Thus I go 'meh'.

Name another camera that has been released in recent years by ANY company that doesn't have video added. 
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: trowski on July 23, 2012, 01:21:04 PM
Does the EOS M camera have MFA?  That would be a big factor for me for using it as a backup.

AFMA does not apply to mirrorless cameras since autofocus is done at the sensor (with either contrast detection or phase detection).
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Vertvorb on July 23, 2012, 02:11:46 PM
I have been waiting for something like this to come long. I am a Canon 5D mk3 owner but believe there is always a need for a small sized dslr. I currently own a 550d, but if this eos-m has similar or better performance I think I will be swaping for it. I still would have preferred to have seen a opitl veiw finder on the eos-m though.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: KyleSTL on July 23, 2012, 02:12:19 PM

I believe all the EOS flashes are compatible with the EOS-M, and vice-versa, per B&H website info.
Thanks for that - I wonder why they just didn't go with the 270EX2 for this camera - the new flash looks just like the 270ex2.

In shape, yes, but looking at the specs page reveals a much different story:

90EX
Dimensions - Approx. 1.7" (W) x 2.0" (H) x 2.6" (D) / 44.2 (W) x 52.0 (H) x 65.0 (D) mm
Weight  - Approx. 1.8 oz. / 50g NOTE: (assuming without batteries)

270EX II
Dimensions - 2.6 x 2.6 x 3.0 in./ 65.8 x 65.2 x 77mm
Weight - 5.5 oz./155g (without batteries)

Much smaller, much lighter, still powered by 2 AA batteries (CORRECTION: 90EX is powered by 2x AAA batteries, 270EX II runs on 2x AA), can function as commander as well.  No zoom head, and much lower power flash than it's bigger brother (GN 9 @ 24mm vs. GN 22 @ 28mm).  It is even less powerful than the built-in flashes on Rebels (GN 13 @ 28mm).  Interesting offering, the 24mm and weight make it pretty unique.

EDIT: Also, check out the relative size of the hotshoe for scale, and note that the 90EX has a plastic shoe.

(http://www.usa.canon.com/CUSA/assets/app/images/cameras/flashes/Speedlite_90EX/profile/90ex_586x186_hero.gif)

(http://www.usa.canon.com/CUSA/assets/app/images/cameras/flashes/Speedlite_270EX_II/profile/sl270exii_586x186_hero.gif)

Does the EOS M camera have MFA?  That would be a big factor for me for using it as a backup.

Doubtful, the 50D was lowest model to have it. Would be nice though.

Why would it need AFMA?  It is basing the focus on phase and contrast on the sensor.  Isn't the reason for AFMA that the AF module in DSLRs are not located on the sensor?

EDIT: Sorry didn't see that trowski already addressed this issue.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: distant.star on July 23, 2012, 02:13:40 PM
I also like the compact and don't care about the loss of a viewfinder - we are all trained by now not to use one thanks to the iPhone.

.
Puzzling how you can shrink the whole world down into people who have and use iphones.

While I've seen lots of good pictures from cell phones, they are not versatile enough for genuine photography. Saturday, a man asked me to take a picture of him using his cell phone. It was overcast and I could hardly see him in the display, let alone do any kind of composing. I took a couple of pictures, and they looked like waste material at the bottom of a portable toilet. He was very happy when I offered to take pictures of him with a real camera and send them to him.

As for the M camera, Canon seems to have done it right and it looks like a useful addition for people who want to take pictures casually.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: distant.star on July 23, 2012, 02:15:36 PM
damn that video settles it i'm definately not trendy enough to have that camera then :(  :'(

.
Me too!

I'm so uncool I wear socks under my shoes.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: traveller on July 23, 2012, 02:40:16 PM
I've got to say that whilst I have no interest in the EOS-M body, I can appreciate that people like me are not Canon's main target audience.  My main concern with this launch is the lack of lenses announced with it.  My "hoped for" launch would have been:


Of course, this would have been living in dreamland! In the real world, we might have hoped for


In reality, we got one body, one zoom and one prime, not exactly a solid commitment to the system from Canon! This wouldn't be a problem, except that they're the last to the party; we weren't even given a roadmap.  What incentive is there to invest into EOS-M when micro-4/3rds is now so well established, Sony are starting to look strong, Fuji are pitching to the enthusiast, and even Samsung have a pretty good lineup.  I certainly wouldn't buy into this system based upon EF lens compatability, because we all know they're mostly pretty unsuitable for mirrorless cameras (too big and with poor AF speed).  I'm sure that Canon had this in mind when they launched the new EF 18-135mm IS STM and 'shorty-forty', but I don't think they're anywhere near as compelling (for their target audiences) on EOS-M as they are on their native format. 

Canon have now shown the hand that many people have been waiting to see before they committed to a system.  That hand is pretty weak at the moment; they need to keep up the momentum as the EOS-M system currently risks fading into obscurity once the hype from the launch is over (like Nikon '1' has).  If they haven't got anything else (mirrorless) to show at Photokina, there are going to be a lot of people buying into rival systems.  If that happens, then Canon had best hope that mirrorless is a fad and not the future, or they will have truly blown their market position. 
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on July 23, 2012, 03:05:30 PM
$200 seems "gougey", like Canon is saying "you have no choice, so pay up!"

Lol.  Ever buy a Canon-branded lens hood?!?

Oh yeah, Canon lens hoods are much worse!

Nonsense! A replacement hood for the 400 2.8 is only $588!
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on July 23, 2012, 03:06:56 PM
Does the EOS M camera have MFA?  That would be a big factor for me for using it as a backup.

Doesn't this thing finish up all AF with contrast detection?
There is no need or even way to give it MFA.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: V8Beast on July 23, 2012, 03:21:58 PM
and a promo vid on youtube  ;D right now 83 views....

The Canon EOS M - Small and simple EOS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vneVnFv3pz0#ws)

Upon suffering through that video, I gotta ask: After a fancy dinner like that, did that lady at least give it up in the end ;D?
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: AvTvM on July 23, 2012, 03:26:41 PM
This is the Canon "T4i/650D-EVIL". Only thing missing is a pop-up flash, especially for the intended target group .. they will not use the hotshoe for a 580EX.  MSRP is ridiculous of course, but street price will take care of that very soon.

I will not buy it, due to lack of a viewfinder. I only take pictures with arms stretched out with my iphone, but not with a "real camera"

If Canon brings a "7D-EVIL" with top-notch EVF or hybrid OVF/EVF in fall (photokina!)  I will get that one as my second body for all small&light occasions, plus macros and for concerts (low noise).
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Random Orbits on July 23, 2012, 04:07:08 PM
Does the EOS M camera have MFA?  That would be a big factor for me for using it as a backup.

AFMA does not apply to mirrorless cameras since autofocus is done at the sensor (with either contrast detection or phase detection).

Yes, you're correct.  Brain fart of the day!   ::)
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: ro_n on July 23, 2012, 04:11:11 PM
Did anyone notice these mountable camera grips in the italian video (http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/07/hands-on-video-of-the-canon-eos-m-italy/) on 5:25 and 7:05 ?
They didn't show up on the Tech Radar video nor on the official announcement.
I think one of those would add the right amount of grip to this little thingy.

After watching the Tech Radar video (http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/07/canon-eos-m-hands-on-via-tech-radar/) I think the AF performance of this "touch me to shoot" function cannot compete.
It took nearly 1 second to grab focus while this is achieved on e.g. a GF3 in max. 2 tenth of a second.

Am I missing something?

ro_n
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: And-Rew on July 23, 2012, 05:34:51 PM
I thought this was an April Fools announcement, but apparently not.

So I've gone and ordered myself a Fuji X-Pro 1 with 35mm f1.4 lens!

Thanks for helping me make my mind up Canon. I just wish I understood what Canon is thinking of at the moment, what their game plan is - cos the more I follow this site the more confusion i see.  ???
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Dylan777 on July 23, 2012, 06:19:55 PM

No thanks Canon. Look forward for FF  with classic body style.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: elflord on July 23, 2012, 07:33:52 PM
im able to clean a sensor.. but what will the average joe user do?
grab an old cleaning rag and smear all over the sensor?   ;)

Based on the Joe users of entry level DSLR and mirrorless cameras, my guess is that "average joe user" will seldom change the lens.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: AG on July 23, 2012, 08:07:29 PM
From reading all the chatter on the net about this camera, it basically looks like its a replacement for the 1100D market.

Around the same price point, comes in multiple colours and is better spec'd too.

What more would a beginner coming from p&s camera need? (especially if the rebel/xxxD series is too large/expensive/complicated for them).
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: wickidwombat on July 23, 2012, 08:37:03 PM
Did anyone notice these mountable camera grips in the italian video (http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/07/hands-on-video-of-the-canon-eos-m-italy/) on 5:25 and 7:05 ?
They didn't show up on the Tech Radar video nor on the official announcement.
I think one of those would add the right amount of grip to this little thingy.

After watching the Tech Radar video (http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/07/canon-eos-m-hands-on-via-tech-radar/) I think the AF performance of this "touch me to shoot" function cannot compete.
It took nearly 1 second to grab focus while this is achieved on e.g. a GF3 in max. 2 tenth of a second.

Am I missing something?

ro_n
not an accurate representation,
 I think the review was so boring it even bored the camera thats why it was so slow off the mark :P
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: FrutigerSans on July 23, 2012, 08:37:30 PM
So... another camera where video is the big selling point?

At some point Canon needs to just drop the pretense of being a camera company and admit that they are making camcorders in camera form factor.

Thus I go 'meh'.

Name another camera that has been released in recent years by ANY company that doesn't have video added.

Although i agree with your general point, just couldn’t resist naming the Sigma SD1  ;D
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: rpt on July 23, 2012, 09:29:59 PM
So with the mount for EF lenses does the focal length multiplier stay at 1.6? Or is it going to be more than that? My FD to EF converter has a multiplier of 1.25. Kills the wide angle end...
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: AG on July 23, 2012, 09:35:34 PM
So with the mount for EF lenses does the focal length multiplier stay at 1.6? Or is it going to be more than that? My FD to EF converter has a multiplier of 1.25. Kills the wide angle end...

I'd guess it depends on how they implement the adapter, if its the same as the Nikon to Canon type adapters then it will just be a small metal ring. But if its like the metabones style adapters that can also drive the lenses it will more than likely have a conversion factor of some kind to take into account due to the increased distance from the sensor.

Although on saying that for all we know they have added some wizardry into the "hybrid" APS-C sensor that can change its size as it were so when the EF adapter is on it is still 1.6 crop the same as when the stock lens is on there.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: UrbanVoyeur on July 23, 2012, 09:36:14 PM
Three places canon missed it:
 - No built in GPS
Trivial extra cost. The GPS accessory shown is almost as big as the camera.

 - View screen does not swivel or tilt
We are supposed to hold this camera away from body to shoot. If the screen does not swivel or tilt it can only be used at eye level - not waist level, over head or off center.

- 18 MP
Really? I guess Canon's problems producing higher MP sensors at a reasonable price are greater than I thought.

Oh well.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: TrumpetPower! on July 23, 2012, 09:38:31 PM
So with the mount for EF lenses does the focal length multiplier stay at 1.6? Or is it going to be more than that? My FD to EF converter has a multiplier of 1.25. Kills the wide angle end...

I'd be shocked if the EF converter cuts down on the field of view. Canon's marketing department is smarter than that, and their engineering department is too competent to screw it up.

b&
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: wickidwombat on July 23, 2012, 09:42:18 PM
So with the mount for EF lenses does the focal length multiplier stay at 1.6? Or is it going to be more than that? My FD to EF converter has a multiplier of 1.25. Kills the wide angle end...

no glass so no modifier

you should get an edmika FD-EF adapter that will fix that and you will keep maximum image quality too
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: AG on July 23, 2012, 09:46:17 PM
- View screen does not swivel or tilt
We are supposed to hold this camera away from body to shoot. If the screen does not swivel or tilt it can only be used at eye level - not waist level, over head or off center.

Remember these are being aimed at people that are coming from Phones as their primary source of camera.

Plus how many times have you been to a concert and seen people holding their non swivel phones videoing the show?
Its a limitation that people learnt to deal with.

- 18 MP
Really? I guess Canon's problems producing higher MP sensors at a reasonable price are greater than I thought.

Do the average users really need over 18MP?
remember the 1100D is still only 12MP so for these users this is a considerable jump. Plus 18MP means consumers can get away with relatively small capacity SD cards. You start bumping that up to 22,24 or heaven forbid 36MP and the large file sizes and future storage issues give average consumers a reason to buy the other model.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: gmrza on July 23, 2012, 10:16:04 PM

Do the average users really need over 18MP?
remember the 1100D is still only 12MP so for these users this is a considerable jump. Plus 18MP means consumers can get away with relatively small capacity SD cards. You start bumping that up to 22,24 or heaven forbid 36MP and the large file sizes and future storage issues give average consumers a reason to buy the other model.

At 18MP, you already need fairly decent glass to get a sharp image.  While the difference between 18MP and 24MP is academic, a 36MP APS-C sensor would need glass, the cost of which, entry level users could not justify.  Besides, how many 24x36" prints do most users make? - This isn't a camera designed to produce professional results.  I think a 18MP sensor is more than fit for purpose.  If you need higher IQ, then rather go full frame.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Act444 on July 23, 2012, 10:32:49 PM
You know...at first I wrote this off- saw the pics, saw it had no viewfinder or control dials...but thing is, I've always had an eye out for a capable compact camera to be a good P&S companion to my primary DSLR kit. I currently have a Canon SD950IS for that, and while it is a great convenience as a second-shooter, I've always been disappointed with its IQ in less-than-ideal lighting. I've looked at the G1X (was disappointed with IQ, size and slowness)....but if it turns out that this new EOS M offers DSLR-type quality and AF responsiveness in its package, I might actually take a closer look at it...as a potential replacement for the 950IS.

The big negative is price, though...if it were, say, $599 it would be a LOT more tempting. It's quite a high price point so it'd better deliver on the IQ and the AF to be worthy.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: rpt on July 23, 2012, 10:35:33 PM
So with the mount for EF lenses does the focal length multiplier stay at 1.6? Or is it going to be more than that? My FD to EF converter has a multiplier of 1.25. Kills the wide angle end...

no glass so no modifier

you should get an edmika FD-EF adapter that will fix that and you will keep maximum image quality too
I found the page on Flickr. At $165, I'd save that for a prime. Thanks anyway. Am curious about the focus confirm chip though. On an FD? Need to do more reading...

TrumpetPower, AG, thanks for your inputs.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: wickidwombat on July 23, 2012, 11:06:24 PM
So with the mount for EF lenses does the focal length multiplier stay at 1.6? Or is it going to be more than that? My FD to EF converter has a multiplier of 1.25. Kills the wide angle end...

no glass so no modifier

you should get an edmika FD-EF adapter that will fix that and you will keep maximum image quality too
I found the page on Flickr. At $165, I'd save that for a prime. Thanks anyway. Am curious about the focus confirm chip though. On an FD? Need to do more reading...

TrumpetPower, AG, thanks for your inputs.

i've got it on my 600 FD f4.5 works great and the $1400 for a mint condition 600 f4.5 is pile cheaper than buying a current 600 :) its a fun lens
it always reports exif as canon 600mm f4.5
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: TrumpetPower! on July 23, 2012, 11:10:00 PM
You know...at first I wrote this off- saw the pics, saw it had no viewfinder or control dials

Actually, the main control on the back right is a dial not unlike that on the XD-series bodies. I'd guess that that's how you adjust aperture or shutter in Av and Tv modes...not sure how you do both in full manual -- probably hold some button while spinning the dial.

I'm also guessing that you won't really be using the dial very much with the camera, regardless. The 5DIII's automatic metering is already superlative; this thing pretty much has to be better, since it's getting a real-time readout straight from the sensor. My guess is you'll pick either Av or Tv mode based on the setting and let it do all the rest of the exposure stuff automatically, perhaps only very rarely using a bit of exposure compensation for really tricky scenes or where you want to do something weird.

Cheers,

b&
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Richard8971 on July 24, 2012, 12:51:13 AM
In case you guys are interested, the Canon USA website now lists "Powershots" and now "EOS cameras" instead of "DSLR cameras"

Curious...

D
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: t.y. on July 24, 2012, 01:39:41 AM
Does anyone know if flange distance affects lens design/quality?  I'm wondering if there might ever be EF-M lenses better than their EF/EF-S equivalents.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: akiskev on July 24, 2012, 02:34:07 AM
From dpreview
Quote
The 3-10x electronic zoom first seen on the EOS 600D, but mysteriously missing from the EOS 650D, is also available - with minimal loss of quality at the 3x setting.
Aaaahhh Canon I see what you did there  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Mark1 on July 24, 2012, 03:39:42 AM
I've got to say that whilst I have no interest in the EOS-M body, I can appreciate that people like me are not Canon's main target audience.  My main concern with this launch is the lack of lenses announced with it.  My "hoped for" launch would have been:

  • two bodies: this one and higher end model;
  • three zooms: the EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM (collapsible would have been nice), an EF-M 55-150mm(ish) f/4-5.6 IS STM and an 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM;
  • three primes: three fast pancake lenses.  I won't specify focal lengths or apertures, as we could all argue over this until the cows come home!

Of course, this would have been living in dreamland! In the real world, we might have hoped for

  • two bodies (camera companies seem to be more keen on bodies than lenses!)
  • two of the zooms
  • one or two primes

In reality, we got one body, one zoom and one prime, not exactly a solid commitment to the system from Canon! This wouldn't be a problem, except that they're the last to the party; we weren't even given a roadmap.  What incentive is there to invest into EOS-M when micro-4/3rds is now so well established, Sony are starting to look strong, Fuji are pitching to the enthusiast, and even Samsung have a pretty good lineup.  I certainly wouldn't buy into this system based upon EF lens compatability, because we all know they're mostly pretty unsuitable for mirrorless cameras (too big and with poor AF speed).  I'm sure that Canon had this in mind when they launched the new EF 18-135mm IS STM and 'shorty-forty', but I don't think they're anywhere near as compelling (for their target audiences) on EOS-M as they are on their native format. 

Canon have now shown the hand that many people have been waiting to see before they committed to a system.  That hand is pretty weak at the moment; they need to keep up the momentum as the EOS-M system currently risks fading into obscurity once the hype from the launch is over (like Nikon '1' has).  If they haven't got anything else (mirrorless) to show at Photokina, there are going to be a lot of people buying into rival systems.  If that happens, then Canon had best hope that mirrorless is a fad and not the future, or they will have truly blown their market position.

I would be surprised if they didn't announce more lenses in the next month or so and probably even another body. They'll drip feed this new system over the next few months and hog the limelight for all it's worth. This is just the beginning and Canon will have a mirrorless package to compliment your DSLR and you simply wont be able to resist going out and spending 1500 bucks.

Canon know our minds - they have mind control!
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: traveller on July 24, 2012, 04:11:23 AM
So it seems that a lot of people have been waiting for Canon to show its hand and they seem to like what they see:

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/home-run-for-canon-eos-m-most-pre-ordered-camera-at-amazon/ (http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/home-run-for-canon-eos-m-most-pre-ordered-camera-at-amazon/)

Canon best hope that they're not EOS DSLR owners who feel they need a compatible body for their EF mount lenses:

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/new-kipon-adpater-supports-electronid-control-of-eos-lenses-on-m43-and-nex/#comments (http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/new-kipon-adpater-supports-electronid-control-of-eos-lenses-on-m43-and-nex/#comments)
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: lipe on July 24, 2012, 04:22:07 AM
can you imagine to mount this one EF 200 F2L

would be funny
Title: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: bbb34 on July 24, 2012, 04:56:32 AM
One day, when electronic viewfinders become more pleasant to use than optical viewfinders, DSLRs will go away, like twin-lens reflexes did long time ago.

Until then, I just love to use a DSLR for stills. Who cares about specs?    ;D

Yet, the later DSLRs already offer a lot of functions in live view only, or are more usable in live view: video, under water, on tripod,
or in the hands of people who are not used to OVF.
There, with the optical view finder off, the DSLRs loose their advantage.

I could imagine the EOS-M well as my next video and repro camera.



cu,
BBB


Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: ro_n on July 24, 2012, 05:49:40 AM
After watching the Tech Radar video (http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/07/canon-eos-m-hands-on-via-tech-radar/) I think the AF performance of this "touch me to shoot" function cannot compete.
It took nearly 1 second to grab focus while this is achieved on e.g. a GF3 in max. 2 tenth of a second.
I think the review was so boring it even bored the camera thats why it was so slow off the mark :P
You mean, for re-awakening from hibernate-S5 that was pretty fast?  ;D
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Rodknee on July 24, 2012, 05:55:04 AM
This costs more than a 650d so why would somebody buy it over the 650d other than size of which there seems to be a large choice out there of smaller cameras that are more competitively priced. A lot of posts talk about the glass being an important part of picture quality so 650d scores there, it also has a swivelling screen and a built in flash so scores there. I read that it has a 31 point AF system which could be a big advantage but why wouldn't Canon have put that in the 650d if it is the same sensor - I guess that will be in the 70d?
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: elflord on July 24, 2012, 06:31:30 AM
So with the mount for EF lenses does the focal length multiplier stay at 1.6? Or is it going to be more than that? My FD to EF converter has a multiplier of 1.25. Kills the wide angle end...

Should be 1.6 (so that the 22mm would be an effective 35mm).

I'd expect that there would be a third party available adapter for FD (and pretty much every other mount) very soon, so you could skip FD to EF.  Stacking two adapters doesn't seem like the right solution here.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: UrbanVoyeur on July 24, 2012, 08:47:58 AM
Remember these are being aimed at people that are coming from Phones as their primary source of camera.
If it is no more versatile than a camera phone than what is the point.

Its a limitation that people learnt to deal with.
You're apologizing for a design failure. I prefer better designs, especially when the add on cost is trivial.


Do the average users really need over 18MP?
remember the 1100D is still only 12MP so for these users this is a considerable jump. Plus 18MP means consumers can get away with relatively small capacity SD cards. You start bumping that up to 22,24 or heaven forbid 36MP and the large file sizes and future storage issues give average consumers a reason to buy the other model.
You're justifying and apologizing for a failure of Canon technology. Cannon is behind in sensor technology. they need to catch up.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: mb66energy on July 24, 2012, 09:47:30 AM
Does anyone know if flange distance affects lens design/quality?  I'm wondering if there might ever be EF-M lenses better than their EF/EF-S equivalents.

The flange distance itself doesn't affect lens design/quality too much - it is the minimum possible distance between image (here sensor) plane and the last optical element.

The smaller the last-optical-element-to-image-plane distance the higher the flexibility to place optical elements at their optimum position. The EF-M-mount/CSC-concept will open a lot of options for totally new lens designs which will - hopefully - increase the overall (technical) quality of the images created with these lenses.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: Canon-F1 on July 24, 2012, 10:04:24 AM
Does anyone know if flange distance affects lens design/quality?  I'm wondering if there might ever be EF-M lenses better than their EF/EF-S equivalents.

The flange distance itself doesn't affect lens design/quality too much - it is the minimum possible distance between image (here sensor) plane and the last optical element.

The smaller the last-optical-element-to-image-plane distance the higher the flexibility to place optical elements at their optimum position. The EF-M-mount/CSC-concept will open a lot of options for totally new lens designs which will - hopefully - increase the overall (technical) quality of the images created with these lenses.

it IS more difficult to get good borders when the lens is very close to the sensor.
that´s why leica needed a special sensor with mircolenses for the M9.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: itsnotmeyouknow on July 24, 2012, 12:38:54 PM

Do the average users really need over 18MP?
remember the 1100D is still only 12MP so for these users this is a considerable jump. Plus 18MP means consumers can get away with relatively small capacity SD cards. You start bumping that up to 22,24 or heaven forbid 36MP and the large file sizes and future storage issues give average consumers a reason to buy the other model.

At 18MP, you already need fairly decent glass to get a sharp image.  While the difference between 18MP and 24MP is academic, a 36MP APS-C sensor would need glass, the cost of which, entry level users could not justify.  Besides, how many 24x36" prints do most users make? - This isn't a camera designed to produce professional results.  I think a 18MP sensor is more than fit for purpose.  If you need higher IQ, then rather go full frame.

Not targeting you specifically, but in camera talk people often talk about IQ alongside mp.  MP has bearing over one thing only: maximum output size.  It by itself has little or nothing to do with image quality.  That is where the obsession with mp size has come from because people confuse resolution for quality.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: tntwit on July 24, 2012, 12:53:22 PM
Remember these are being aimed at people that are coming from Phones as their primary source of camera.
If it is no more versatile than a camera phone than what is the point.

How can you say an interchangeable lens camera is no more versatile than a camera phone that cannot change lenses?  Can you add an external flash to a camera phone?  I have a droid X and can tell you it takes lousy photos and forget it if they move.

Some of the comments here are of no surprises since at least some of the folks here are of the mindset that nothing less than a 5D III is even capable of taking pictures, so something along the lines of a mirrorless camera is nothing more than a paperweight in their minds.

It may not be for everyone, but it has it's place in the market.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: daniemare on July 24, 2012, 01:24:03 PM
Body looks fine

18-55 lens to big to fit into MY opinion of what a mirrorless camera should be.

Now if canon can come up with a retractible lens ala panasonic - then this might be an option.  The 22mm looks good
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: mb66energy on July 24, 2012, 01:26:30 PM
Does anyone know if flange distance affects lens design/quality?  I'm wondering if there might ever be EF-M lenses better than their EF/EF-S equivalents.

The flange distance itself doesn't affect lens design/quality too much - it is the minimum possible distance between image (here sensor) plane and the last optical element.

The smaller the last-optical-element-to-image-plane distance the higher the flexibility to place optical elements at their optimum position. The EF-M-mount/CSC-concept will open a lot of options for totally new lens designs which will - hopefully - increase the overall (technical) quality of the images created with these lenses.

it IS more difficult to get good borders when the lens is very close to the sensor.
that´s why leica needed a special sensor with mircolenses for the M9.

I think you have mixed two things.

Leica lenses have been made for film which absorbs light just in the case that light hits the film under small angles. And they have used a mirrorless design for their 35mm film cameras. Microlenses in the center of the sensor are centered on their corresponding pixels but going to the edges of the sensor, microlenses are shifted towards the center to increase the amount of light which hits the sensor. This mainly avoids vignetting. So far I agree with your post.

I spoke about the REAR ELEMENT of the lens, meaning that the last element can be placed near the sensor. This doesn't mean that this lens element is small - look at the lens design of the EF-M 2.0 / 22:
http://cweb.canon.jp/ef/lineup/ef-m/ef-m22-f2stm/spec.html (http://cweb.canon.jp/ef/lineup/ef-m/ef-m22-f2stm/spec.html)
The rear element has a diameter of 25 mm (!!!) despite the aperture is just 11 mm. That means that the last element can direct the light nearly perpendicular onto the sensor for a large fraction of the sensor area. And that element is placed around 15mm from the image plane - never possible with a EOS 40D or 650D or whatsoever. Here the EF-M/CSC-concept helps - the MTFs on the same web page speak for themselves.

Best - Michael
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: mb66energy on July 24, 2012, 02:12:13 PM
I need video and this means I need a new camera body. After looking around about specs/infos about the EOS M system I see one really disgusting detail: roughly 250 shots with one battery charge (EOS 650D: 440, EOS 7D: 800) - this is not good especially for video. And price per battery is around 75$ !
If I buy that camera I see myself lugging around a EOS M with net adaptor for power supply, a 12V to 220V converter and a lead battery in the backpack  >:(

The rest is acceptable if you use the EOS M + 22mm as high image quality compact and the EF-EOS M adapter for videography. One detail about the adaptor: 110 grams without tripod mount - the tripod mount is detached/attached with only one screw. That is good news if you want to remove the tripod mount for compactness - e.g. if you want use the EOS M with the EF-S 60mm or the EF 40mm.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: rpt on July 24, 2012, 07:56:56 PM
So with the mount for EF lenses does the focal length multiplier stay at 1.6? Or is it going to be more than that? My FD to EF converter has a multiplier of 1.25. Kills the wide angle end...

no glass so no modifier

you should get an edmika FD-EF adapter that will fix that and you will keep maximum image quality too
I found the page on Flickr. At $165, I'd save that for a prime. Thanks anyway. Am curious about the focus confirm chip though. On an FD? Need to do more reading...

TrumpetPower, AG, thanks for your inputs.

i've got it on my 600 FD f4.5 works great and the $1400 for a mint condition 600 f4.5 is pile cheaper than buying a current 600 :) its a fun lens
it always reports exif as canon 600mm f4.5
Now you are tempting me again  :)
So you shoot manual focus and Tv?
Any shots you can share?
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: wickidwombat on July 25, 2012, 01:38:47 AM
So with the mount for EF lenses does the focal length multiplier stay at 1.6? Or is it going to be more than that? My FD to EF converter has a multiplier of 1.25. Kills the wide angle end...

no glass so no modifier

you should get an edmika FD-EF adapter that will fix that and you will keep maximum image quality too
I found the page on Flickr. At $165, I'd save that for a prime. Thanks anyway. Am curious about the focus confirm chip though. On an FD? Need to do more reading...

TrumpetPower, AG, thanks for your inputs.

i've got it on my 600 FD f4.5 works great and the $1400 for a mint condition 600 f4.5 is pile cheaper than buying a current 600 :) its a fun lens
it always reports exif as canon 600mm f4.5
Now you are tempting me again  :)
So you shoot manual focus and Tv?
Any shots you can share?
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=5103.0 (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=5103.0)
Here is one I posted before shot with a 1d3 I just shoot manual using spot metering
I'll get some more recent shots and pop them up
I use tge 5d mk2 more now with it because it has the brightscreen which really helps
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: bycostello on July 25, 2012, 05:07:11 AM
any idea what the shutter lag is?
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: martin982 on July 25, 2012, 06:06:44 AM
Im not sure if this has been mentioned before but I would have loved to have seen the 90ex hotshoe flash that comes with the camera to be radio controlled from the eos-m, so you could use it off camera in full ettl mode this would really bring a more proffessional look to your images and open up so many more possibilites for creative lighting  with a point and shoot!! just image a small light point and shoot camera in one hand and a tiny flash in the other, with reliable radio sync, it would be heaven.  :) I know the 90ex can be used as a master unit, and pretty much replaces the st-e2 unit, but it works on an unreliable optical system which is ancient technology! Plus you would need to carry around the eos-m the 90ex AND a flash gun that can work as a slave (430ex) then it doesnt make it very easy to carry around, which is the whole point surely. without this flash feature I cant really see the point of a seperate flash, they might aswell of put a pop up flash in there. Dont get me wrong I do love the look of the camera I would love it as my go everywhere camera but for the price I would have to think very long and hard about it.

Just my thoughts,

Martin
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: AvTvM on July 25, 2012, 11:21:09 AM
... just image a small light point and shoot camera in one hand and a tiny flash in the other, with reliable radio sync, it would be heaven.  :)

If the ET-E3-RT is fully functional in the EOS-M hotshoe it'll give you exactly what you want, and you even only need one hand for it. :-) 
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: UrbanVoyeur on July 26, 2012, 12:21:50 AM
How can you say an interchangeable lens camera is no more versatile than a camera phone that cannot change lenses?  Can you add an external flash to a camera phone?  I have a droid X and can tell you it takes lousy photos and forget it if they move.
Canon had a chance to do the extraordinary and once again settled for the ordinary. 

I realize that the camera has interchangeable lenses and hot shoe. And those are nice things. But without an articulated screen, there's only one way to hand hold it and almost no way to steady it without a tripod or monopod. Which makes it the equivalent of smart phone with extra lenses. A very front heavy smart phone.

Oh wait, smart phones have built in GPS and a built in flash. I guess the M is stripped, not equipped.

Canon needs help.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: AvTvM on July 26, 2012, 03:18:00 AM
Canon had a chance to do the extraordinary and once again settled for the ordinary. 
I realize that the camera has interchangeable lenses and hot shoe. And those are nice things. But without an articulated screen, there's only one way to hand hold it and almost no way to steady it without a tripod or monopod. Which makes it the equivalent of smart phone with extra lenses. A very front heavy smart phone.
Oh wait, smart phones have built in GPS and a built in flash. I guess the M is stripped, not equipped.
Canon needs help.

+1
fully agree.
Especially for the intended target group "P&S upgraders" - the EOS-M should have WiFi and GPS built in.   
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: mb66energy on July 26, 2012, 03:35:33 AM

[...]

Canon had a chance to do the extraordinary and once again settled for the ordinary. 

I realize that the camera has interchangeable lenses and hot shoe. And those are nice things. But without an articulated screen, there's only one way to hand hold it and almost no way to steady it without a tripod or monopod. Which makes it the equivalent of smart phone with extra lenses. A very front heavy smart phone.

Oh wait, smart phones have built in GPS and a built in flash. I guess the M is stripped, not equipped.

Canon needs help.

I haven't yet used the EOS M camera/system but if
  - it delivers very good image quality
  - the user interface is at least usable
it might be the high IQ compact for those with existing EF and EF-S lenses. I expect a price of roughly 650 Euro in germany with EF adaptor (100 EUR less than 650D body only).

Uses:
  - Camera always in the backpack with 2.8/40
  - Macro
  - intelligent rear cap for seldomly used 10-22mm (easily fits in a lens compartment of any photo luggage)
  - video (I need 3x software zoom for some video sequences, yes, I need 1800mm equiv focal length!)

I see some applications of the EOS M for serious photography. And I am not shure if Canon needs (our?) help.

Best - Michael
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: tntwit on July 27, 2012, 12:56:28 AM
How can you say an interchangeable lens camera is no more versatile than a camera phone that cannot change lenses?  Can you add an external flash to a camera phone?  I have a droid X and can tell you it takes lousy photos and forget it if they move.
Canon had a chance to do the extraordinary and once again settled for the ordinary. 

I realize that the camera has interchangeable lenses and hot shoe. And those are nice things. But without an articulated screen, there's only one way to hand hold it and almost no way to steady it without a tripod or monopod. Which makes it the equivalent of smart phone with extra lenses. A very front heavy smart phone.

Oh wait, smart phones have built in GPS and a built in flash. I guess the M is stripped, not equipped.

Canon needs help.

Funny, more than once I've heard the comment  in Canon Rumors that an articulating screen is nothing more than a gimmick (I completely disagree with that comment).  Now Canon comes out with a consumer level camera WITHOUT an articulating screen and it's called a stripped down cell phone in part because it lacks what others here call a gimmick.  Seems Canon cannot do anything right.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: AvTvM on July 27, 2012, 03:50:24 AM
Funny, more than once I've heard the comment  in Canon Rumors that an articulating screen is nothing more than a gimmick (I completely disagree with that comment).  Now Canon comes out with a consumer level camera WITHOUT an articulating screen and it's called a stripped down cell phone in part because it lacks what others here call a gimmick.  Seems Canon cannot do anything right.

If you follow this and other forums closely enought, you know, that it is only a small minority of "high-end DSLR users" that is against articulated displays and pop-up flashes.

The vast majority of photographers recognizes the immense benefits of those 2 items in any digital camera.

Looking at the intended target group of "consumers, P&S upgraders", Canon made a major mistake to not include the following items in the EOS-M:
* pop-up flash
* fully articulated screen
* WiFi and GPS
* "Direct Facebook Button"

Inclusion of these features would have made the EOS-M the clear "king of consumer-grade compact system cameras". Instead, the EOS-M is still "lacking" in some ways ... just like all other CSCs currently on the market ... but more expensive than most. This will limit sales and keep Canon from reaching a commanding market position in the CSC segment any time soon. 
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: UrbanVoyeur on July 28, 2012, 12:40:10 PM
Funny, more than once I've heard the comment  in Canon Rumors that an articulating screen is nothing more than a gimmick (I completely disagree with that comment).  Now Canon comes out with a consumer level camera WITHOUT an articulating screen and it's called a stripped down cell phone in part because it lacks what others here call a gimmick.  Seems Canon cannot do anything right.
Canon apologists will always justify whatever Canon does.  I make constant use of articulating screens when I have one.  To make the GX with an articulating screen (which I own) and M without one is silly. Making the S100 with GPS and the M without is equally stupid.

And lately, for me, Canon has done very little right in my book.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: UrbanVoyeur on July 28, 2012, 12:42:28 PM
Looking at the intended target group of "consumers, P&S upgraders", Canon made a major mistake to not include the following items in the EOS-M:
* pop-up flash
* fully articulated screen
* WiFi and GPS
* "Direct Facebook Button"

Inclusion of these features would have made the EOS-M the clear "king of consumer-grade compact system cameras". Instead, the EOS-M is still "lacking" in some ways ... just like all other CSCs currently on the market ... but more expensive than most. This will limit sales and keep Canon from reaching a commanding market position in the CSC segment any time soon.
+1
I wholeheartedly agree!
Title: Re: Canon EOS M System Announced
Post by: JoeDavid on September 06, 2012, 08:56:35 AM
Looks like Fujifilm has announced the mirrorless camera with the features that I'd have liked Canon to include (mainly an EVF, built-in flash plus hotshoe...).  Check out the E-X1 instead of the X1 Pro.  If Canon had produced that camera with the option of using my EOS lenses through an adapter, I'd have pre-ordered one.  The EOS-M is nothing I'd consider...