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Gear Talk => EOS Bodies - For Stills => Topic started by: bdunbar79 on August 02, 2012, 12:40:50 PM

Title: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 02, 2012, 12:40:50 PM
Well I'm looking for opinions right now.  My only job with photography, it looks like this year, will be sports.  Nothing but college sports.  I have a 1DX, 2 5D3's I was shooting weddings with, a 1D4, and a 1Ds3.  Obviously now I don't need all of those cameras since weddings will go to about nil and it'll be all about sports.  I need 2 bodies at each sporting event.  Obviously if I kept my cameras I'd go 1DX/1D4.  However, if I sold some cameras, I could afford another 1DX and maybe a longer lens (currently have the 400 f/2.8L IS which I think is plenty long on the 1D4, but if I didn't have the 1D4, not sure for track). 

My current position is to sell a 5D3, the 1D4, and the 1Ds3, and buying a 1DX, giving me a pair of 1DX's and a 5D3.  I could probably budget down the road either a newer 400mm lens or a 500mm lens.  I'm not in a bind or anything, I was just looking for some opinions on what you might do if you were going to primarily shoot sports, but do some weddings here and there.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: Quasimodo on August 02, 2012, 02:11:09 PM
I am not in your league, being a amateur (with a few paid gigs a year). However, I think it is hard to weigh in given that I don't know your sports (wast difference if it is soccer, American footbal, or basket), so it is hard to know your range requirements. Is the sports you shoot fast sports? If so, I would opt for another 1DX, then you have two 1DX with a 70-200 F2.8 IS II on one, and a 500 on the other?
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 02, 2012, 02:15:00 PM
I am not in your league, being a amateur (with a few paid gigs a year). However, I think it is hard to weigh in given that I don't know your sports (wast difference if it is soccer, American footbal, or basket), so it is hard to know your range requirements. Is the sports you shoot fast sports? If so, I would opt for another 1DX, then you have two 1DX with a 70-200 F2.8 IS II on one, and a 500 on the other?

Thanks for responding.  Yeah it's hard to say.  I'd say at track and field, 400 might be a tad short for long distance curve shots for fast action relay hand offs, etc.  I don't really want to buy a 500mm lens for track only.  The other sports yes, are fast action.  Football I think given the fact that I'll be on the sidelines 400mm is plenty and most of the time I'd be shooting with a 300mm lens anyways.  Indoor sports won't require anything longer than 200mm.  I guess I just don't know if the sacrifice in IQ with the 1D4 for the extra reach is worth it.  I know for indoor sports I won't use the 1D4 because I just don't like the high ISO (6400) on that camera vs. the 1DX and 5D3.  It's a tough decision.
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: preppyak on August 02, 2012, 02:27:55 PM
My current position is to sell a 5D3, the 1D4, and the 1Ds3, and buying a 1DX, giving me a pair of 1DX's and a 5D3.  I could probably budget down the road either a newer 400mm lens or a 500mm lens.  I'm not in a bind or anything, I was just looking for some opinions on what you might do if you were going to primarily shoot sports, but do some weddings here and there.  Thanks!
What about ending up with a two 1DX's and the 1D4? The 1DX's would more than cover you for pretty much everything (indoors, weddings, etc), and the 1DIV would allow your 400mm lens to cover the track portions you need the extra reach for. The re-sale value difference between the 5dIII and 1D4 is what, $1000? Compare that to maybe needing to buy the 500mm or 600mm and that's nothing.

Two 1DX's and a 5dIII just seems odd...I'm not sure you'd ever actually use the 5dIII, because the 1DX does everything it does, only better.
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 02, 2012, 02:31:36 PM
My current position is to sell a 5D3, the 1D4, and the 1Ds3, and buying a 1DX, giving me a pair of 1DX's and a 5D3.  I could probably budget down the road either a newer 400mm lens or a 500mm lens.  I'm not in a bind or anything, I was just looking for some opinions on what you might do if you were going to primarily shoot sports, but do some weddings here and there.  Thanks!
What about ending up with a two 1DX's and the 1D4? The 1DX's would more than cover you for pretty much everything (indoors, weddings, etc), and the 1DIV would allow your 400mm lens to cover the track portions you need the extra reach for. The re-sale value difference between the 5dIII and 1D4 is what, $1000? Compare that to maybe needing to buy the 500mm or 600mm and that's nothing.

Two 1DX's and a 5dIII just seems odd...I'm not sure you'd ever actually use the 5dIII, because the 1DX does everything it does, only better.

That's actually a superb idea.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: preppyak on August 02, 2012, 02:33:10 PM
That's actually a superb idea.  Thanks.
No problem, it's easy to spend other people's money. I'll accept one of the 5dIII's as my commission  ;)
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 02, 2012, 03:11:37 PM
That's actually a superb idea.  Thanks.
No problem, it's easy to spend other people's money. I'll accept one of the 5dIII's as my commission  ;)

You're assuming I SHOULD have purchased anything I did :)
Best I can do is a discount :)
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on August 02, 2012, 03:36:26 PM
I agree on keeping the 1D MK IV.  I'd also hold off a little and look at the 200-400mmL when it arrives this fall.  With the built-in TC, it becomes a 280-560mm zoom on FF, and longer on the 1D MK IV.
It really sounds handy for sports.  There will likely be a lot of reviews from Olympic shooters who have loaners from Canon.
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 02, 2012, 03:40:26 PM
Thanks guys.  As much as I like my 22mp cameras, they're not going to make me any money whereas the 1DX and 1D4 will.  18mp is plenty for wedding photography anyways, as I usually only crop down to about 12-14mp off a 21mp shot.  And Mt. Spokane, thanks for the heads up on the 200-400L potential announcement this fall.  That would certainly come in handy down the road. 
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: Dylan777 on August 02, 2012, 03:45:42 PM
Well I'm looking for opinions right now.  My only job with photography, it looks like this year, will be sports.  Nothing but college sports.  I have a 1DX, 2 5D3's I was shooting weddings with, a 1D4, and a 1Ds3.  Obviously now I don't need all of those cameras since weddings will go to about nil and it'll be all about sports.  I need 2 bodies at each sporting event.  Obviously if I kept my cameras I'd go 1DX/1D4.  However, if I sold some cameras, I could afford another 1DX and maybe a longer lens (currently have the 400 f/2.8L IS which I think is plenty long on the 1D4, but if I didn't have the 1D4, not sure for track). 

My current position is to sell a 5D3, the 1D4, and the 1Ds3, and buying a 1DX, giving me a pair of 1DX's and a 5D3.  I could probably budget down the road either a newer 400mm lens or a 500mm lens.  I'm not in a bind or anything, I was just looking for some opinions on what you might do if you were going to primarily shoot sports, but do some weddings here and there.  Thanks!

I would go for it :) Two best bodies plus 5D III as backup.....I'm drooling
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 02, 2012, 04:15:38 PM
As long as you guys think 18mp is no big deal vs. 22mp, I'm comfortable with that decision.
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: MarkWebbPhoto on August 02, 2012, 06:20:23 PM
As long as you guys think 18mp is no big deal vs. 22mp, I'm comfortable with that decision.

I've got my 1DX but I'm going to hold out for a high megapixel camera like a 1DXs or something as a second body. Until then I will continue to use my 5D2 and 1D4!
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: wickidwombat on August 02, 2012, 06:27:55 PM
In your position I would keep the 1dx and 1d4 with a 5dmk3 for backup
But if you insist on selling the 1 d4 let me know what you are gonna be looking for I might be interested
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 02, 2012, 06:33:02 PM
As long as you guys think 18mp is no big deal vs. 22mp, I'm comfortable with that decision.

I've got my 1DX but I'm going to hold out for a high megapixel camera like a 1DXs or something as a second body. Until then I will continue to use my 5D2 and 1D4!

Mark, if 400mm is plenty long for any sports for you on a FF camera, I can sell the 1D4 and keep the 5D Mark III, which I really like.  I think 2 1DX's for sports and the 5D3 for high mp camera sounds good too.  However, if 400mm is a bit short in your opinion, I will keep the 1D4 and wait like you are for a higher mp camera.  Problem is I can't see much difference 18 vs 22mp, but that's still 4000 less pixels. 

wickidwombat,

If I went that route, of course you can look at purchasing the 1D4.  I bought it in early May to finish up the outdoor track season and that's all I've shot with it.  When purchased, the EOS Utility showed something like 7k actuations.  I may have 10k total, but I'll run the Utility again.  I guess I could always keep the 1Ds3, but that doesn't do well in low light and I will need that.

Oh decisions, decisions.
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: wickidwombat on August 02, 2012, 06:57:13 PM
Keeping a 5d3 will be valuable for its silent shutter if you shoot golf, tennis anything where someone might brain you with a club or raquet if they get the sh!ts on also if you are mainly shooting with 2 1 series bodies then you just keep it in you bag with a wide lens on to grab the odd total scene shot
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 02, 2012, 07:08:36 PM
Keeping a 5d3 will be valuable for its silent shutter if you shoot golf, tennis anything where someone might brain you with a club or raquet if they get the sh!ts on also if you are mainly shooting with 2 1 series bodies then you just keep it in you bag with a wide lens on to grab the odd total scene shot

Tennis is a concern yes.  I've not done tennis before.  Basketball is loud anyways and football, well...

I'll probably, no matter what, hang on to the 5D Mark III, whether I end up with a pair of 1DX's or not.  I would really like to keep one of my highest mp cameras.  If I had just a bit more money I'd hang on to the 1Ds3 but economically it may not make sense.
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: expatinasia on August 02, 2012, 09:43:13 PM
Do you not think three cameras is overkill? Unless you plan on linking them all wirelessly and trigger them that way two would suffice wouldn't it?

Reach is always good, so I would keep the 1D Mark IV and 1D X and sell the rest and buy new glass.

I like Mt Spokane Photography's idea of the new 200-400 lens.

How did you end up with so many cameras anyway?
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 02, 2012, 09:57:09 PM
Do you not think three cameras is overkill? Unless you plan on linking them all wirelessly and trigger them that way two would suffice wouldn't it?

Reach is always good, so I would keep the 1D Mark IV and 1D X and sell the rest and buy new glass.

I like Mt Spokane Photography's idea of the new 200-400 lens.

How did you end up with so many cameras anyway?

I guess as time went on, I replaced all my old cameras with a new one.  Had a 7D and 5D2, and got a 5D3 in place of those two.  Then I stopped actually replacing them.  Kept the 1Ds3 when I did that.  However I did a few weddings and got another 5D3 because I was using that heavily and the convenience of two helped.  The 1D4 I got in May to pick up the end of the track season.  Oh and you can see how it went.  Should have sold, much like I did my 7D and 5D2, as I went along. 

I don't think 3 is overkill.  I take two to every event.  Sometimes the 3rd has a greater strength at one thing than another.  So it could be A/B, A/C, or B/C, depending on what I'm doing.  In THIS case though, sports is going to be it.  I always carry two bodies to every event.  But I'm only doing sports, then yeah, why have 3?  I guess I'm not thrilled with the 1D4's IQ compared to the 5D3 or 1DX, but it certainly has that extra reach.  In track the 400mm lens I have becomes 520.  That's tough to beat, especially at low ISO.
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: briansquibb on August 03, 2012, 01:07:58 AM
Are you planning to do anything other than sports? If not then it would be worth getting more specialist kit.

If you are planning to do other things then versatility needs to be factored in.

3 bodies are fine - means one can be repaired whilst the other two are being used.

I just sent both 1Ds for cleaning/service, the 1D4 will go on their return, by which time the 1DX should be here.

I can always fall back on the 10D/5Dc combo if needed  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 03, 2012, 10:51:01 AM
Well, since yes, things have changed for me and it looks like it'll be a full sports contract for a university this whole school year.  I have ONE wedding on November 3, which by this time I'll have to cut all weddings out.  My question is whether I will need the 5D3 at all.  Or should I keep the 1D4 and pickup another 1DX.  I refuse to use the 1D4 for indoor sports if the 1DX is in my kit, I mean why not?  I don't need the reach but I do need the high ISO capabilities.  Outdoors, at low ISO though, I can use the reach.  I always carry two bodies, so my decision will be two 1DX's with either 1. 5D3, or 2. 1D4.  It is certain the one of my 5D3's and the 1Ds3 has to go.  Maybe the 1DX is so good I only need the 1DX and 1D4, two bodies.  Of course then I would only bring one body to volleyball, basketball, wrestling, and indoor track.  I'm thinking the 1DX is an okay replacement for the 5D3 even in resolution.  That's what I'm trying to determine.  It appears as though, when you take shots of say a wheat field, the detail is greater from the 1DX whereas the 5D3 seems to sort of blend the grass blades together.  This is irrelevent in sports though.

I'll probably at first keep a 1DX, a 1D4, and a 5D3 and if I need to do anything else later I will.  I will not be shooting tennis with a 1DX, way too loud.
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 06, 2012, 07:23:04 PM
Well, thought I would close out this thread with the following.  Since I'll be shooting only one wedding in November and nothing but Ashland U sports all year, and now I got into some HS sports in Mansfield, I'll be doing some 30 games/events per fall, winter, spring.  That's going to be a lot of sports.  So I made the decision to sell my 1D Mark IV, 1Ds Mark III, and a 5D Mark III.  I picked up another 1DX and so have two of those and will have also a 5D Mark III.  This way I can shoot at events with two 1-D bodies.  My lesson is that the bodies you have now lose very little value.  To sell those 3 cameras was roughly $9k.  So if you purchase an expensive camera and feel apprehensive, don't worry at all.  You can get it back.  My past purchases actually were investments that you could argue ended up being a free 1DX plus change.  That change will go towards a lens perhaps.  I'm not saying to go spend a ton of money without care, but if you get worried don't because I sold the stuff no problem at all.
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 06, 2012, 07:25:16 PM
Are you planning to do anything other than sports? If not then it would be worth getting more specialist kit.

If you are planning to do other things then versatility needs to be factored in.

3 bodies are fine - means one can be repaired whilst the other two are being used.

I just sent both 1Ds for cleaning/service, the 1D4 will go on their return, by which time the 1DX should be here.

I can always fall back on the 10D/5Dc combo if needed  ::) ::) ::)

Yes, take your 10D to your weddings and then go shoot some indoor volleyball :) :)
Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: briansquibb on August 07, 2012, 01:39:11 AM

My 1Ds3 had to have a new shutter fitted :( On holiday a couple of weeks ago I had a small number of pictures with the tell tale white line down one edge. Glad to say the service and repair has given me an as new camera, plus of course the shutter is now under warranty.

The good news is that the annual clean and service means I get a calibration done so AFMA is pretty much not needed.

It is good to be clear what direction ones shooting is going towards as it allows the kit needed to worked out and put out of your head.

I am on a full frame, slower moving route where I am taking portraits of humans and animals (big demand for animal portraits) plus architectural photos of older buildings, so that is the domain of the 1Ds2/3

I still enjoy the occasional sports/wildlife shoot so I will be keeping the 1D4 for that

I expect to do more close-up/macro work so my 7D will be useful for that - as well as for general backup/street

The 1DX that is expected shortly may push out the 7D. The 1DX I see more as a general purpose body which I expect to use as a walkabout/default body. Until PW get their act sorted then it will be limited as I use a lot of flash most of the time .

With the move to ff I have plans for a 300 f/2.8 II in order to compensate for the loss of 1.3 crop - until now I have been using the 200 on the 1D4 - which is clearly going to be shorter on ff. 200 on the 1D4 is a combo which I use a lot, so the new lens will be desirable. The 200 f/2 on ff is my favourite portrait combo - it is flattering for the subject  - and the bokeh is just stunning

Title: Re: Camera Crossroads :)
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 07, 2012, 10:00:32 AM
Brian,

If I had the time and money, believe me, I'd keep the 1Ds3/1Ds2 combo and go shoot landscape for a week at a time.  It's hard when you spend all your time doing one type of shooting because money comes into play and you sort of lose some of the fun of the hobby.  But I guess it was my choice.  No demand here for portrait work as heavily as you have it; it's all sports.  There are no sports photographers to be found for universities for some odd reason.  EVERYONE is doing weddings/senior pictures, so the current demand is sufficient, but the supply of photographers is also very high.  I can honestly say that I am more skilled at sports/action than portrait/landscape.  It would take me a lot of studying and practice to do those types of works.  Weddings are a tad different as you can approach as photojournalistic. 

As you can see, I sometimes miss my histogram and WB in indoor lighting.  This is something I will have to get better at, but with gyms for basketball and volleyball the lighting is so even, it hasn't been a problem at all, whereras indoor events with mixed lighting is tough.