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Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Kevin Weinstein on August 11, 2012, 11:44:19 PM

Title: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Kevin Weinstein on August 11, 2012, 11:44:19 PM
So, when I have the camera set to One Shot, I get 12 frames a second. 

But the second I change it over to AI SERVO, and hit the AF stop button (I have it custom set using the little star icon), the frame rate not only drops dramatically, but shoots 3 or 4 in a row, and then pauses, and then 3 or 4 in a row and pauses.

I have three 1Dx bodies here, and all do the same thing.

Anyone else notice this?

Thanks!
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Viggo on August 12, 2012, 02:41:40 AM
Mine doesn't do that at all. I would save the settings to a card, reset the camera to factory and try again.
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: charlesa on August 12, 2012, 02:59:24 AM
Have you changed the number of frames it captures in one burst? It can be limited, mine is set to 20 in one burst for example.
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Kevin Weinstein on August 12, 2012, 07:20:59 AM
Where is that option or preference to change the number in one burst? 

I know One Shot preference is set to 12 which is the default.  I just don't understand why it captures 12, but the minute I out on the stop AF button to lock on, it drops to 3 frames a second or so.

It is really confusing.

I will try saving the settings, and the going back to default again and see if that fixes it.

KW
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: neuroanatomist on August 12, 2012, 09:45:48 AM
Mine doesn't do that at all. I would save the settings to a card, reset the camera to factory and try again.

Viggo, you don't list a supertele lens in your sig - do you have or did you rent one?  The OP's issue is with the AF Stop button, which is found only on the supertele lenses, AFAIK.

Kevin - the 'little star' that you assigned to LENS is AE Lock, does the same thing happen with AE Lock assigned to the AE Lock button on the camera?
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Viggo on August 12, 2012, 11:38:47 AM
Mine doesn't do that at all. I would save the settings to a card, reset the camera to factory and try again.

Viggo, you don't list a supertele lens in your sig - do you have or did you rent one?  The OP's issue is with the AF Stop button, which is found only on the supertele lenses, AFAIK.

Kevin - the 'little star' that you assigned to LENS is AE Lock, does the same thing happen with AE Lock assigned to the AE Lock button on the camera?

Ah, I thought he meant the AF-ON button, which I have set to stop AF incidently. I was pretty tired when I wrote the reply, lol.
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Richard Lane on August 12, 2012, 12:24:50 PM
You can also change the AE Lock* button on the camera (via custom controls) to an AF-Stop (AF-Off) button regardless of what type of lens is attached.  I prefer Back-button AF-On for Auto focusing and tracking in AI Servo (in conjunction with removing focusing from the shutter button), and then just remove my finger from AF-On to stop tracking and lock focus. 

Kevin, it sounds like some custom configuration settings are way off, or you've got yourself a serious problem with 3 cameras. However,  it would be highly unlikely that all 3 cameras would be bad, so it must be a custom setting somewhere, but AF-stop should not behave like that.  You can reset your camera as was suggested above or first try resetting Custom Controls.  When you're in Custom Controls if you hit the Trash Can you can set those settings to Default-set.
 
As you've mentioned above, the AF Mode (AI Servo or One Shot) should not have anything to do with Drive Mode (single shooting or high speed continuous shooting).  Even if you limit continuous shot count, it shouldn't be different for One shot or AI servo.  The only way that I know how to shoot in different Drive modes and AF Modes, would be with Custom Shooting Mode (C1-C3) and  the AF-stop button or custom controls shouldn't change your setting to Custom Shooting Mode.  The only way that I think it could be done would be by setting the "C1" (Custom Shooting Mode) to AI Servo and Low speed continuous shooting and have Manual mode set to One Shot and High speed shooting and then set custom controls to M-fn to to 'C" and when you hit M-fn it would switch your AF mode and Drive Mode from 'M" (one shot and high speed) to "C" AI Servo and Low speed). But you would be well aware if you hit the M-fn button.

What shooting mode are you using, AV, TV, M, C?

Who set up your cameras?  Did they use the same configuration with all 3 cameras with a CF card? 

Rich
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Kevin Weinstein on August 13, 2012, 10:19:29 AM


Kevin - the 'little star' that you assigned to LENS is AE Lock, does the same thing happen with AE Lock assigned to the AE Lock button on the camera?
[/quote]

Yea, tried to change what the AE Lock button does, and it still does the same thing.  Humph!  So odd. 
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Kevin Weinstein on August 13, 2012, 10:22:31 AM
Richard.  I wiped everything again, and it still is doing it.  I am going to call canon today.  it seems as if I have something hidden as a setting / function that isn't getting wiped.

FYI, I normally use AV, but I have tried P, TV and M and it does it on all of them.

KW
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Kevin Weinstein on August 13, 2012, 10:36:41 AM
OK, folks.  narrowed it down just before calling Canon.  Here is the custom function that is causing this:

I have the 1st image priority and 2nd image priority set to focus (not release).

So when in AI SERVO, and then holding down the focus lock button, the frame rate drops to about 3 per second.

So now my question is, why!?  I have locked focus, so shoot 12 frames a second!  Nothing else to focus on!

Or am I not understanding what that preference does?

KW
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: neuroanatomist on August 13, 2012, 11:09:00 AM
OK, folks.  narrowed it down just before calling Canon.  Here is the custom function that is causing this:

I have the 1st image priority and 2nd image priority set to focus (not release).

So when in AI SERVO, and then holding down the focus lock button, the frame rate drops to about 3 per second.

So now my question is, why!?  I have locked focus, so shoot 12 frames a second!  Nothing else to focus on!

Or am I not understanding what that preference does?

KW

The camera will focus between each shot, regardless of whether you're in AI Servo or One Shot (the difference is that in Servo, it tries to predict where your moving subject will be, but it still tries to focus). 

How did you lock focus?  Initially, you stated, "...the AF stop button (I have it custom set using the little star icon)," which means that button is locking exposure (the asterisk mean AE Lock), not focus.  Since you're not locking focus, the camera is going to try to focus between each shot, and with priority for the 2nd (and subsequent) shots set to focus, it's going to make sure focus is achieved before releasing the shutter, which I suppose would result in a slower frame rate.

If you want to lock focus, set the AF Stop button to AF Stop, or enable back-button AF and take your finger off the AF-ON button.
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Richard Lane on August 13, 2012, 12:10:50 PM
Kevin,

You also have to clear all camera settings if you haven't done that already, and not just the custom controls that I had mentioned with the trash can icon.  I was hoping that would work first.  If you focus on a subject in good lighting the frame rate should not drop to 3fps in servo, unless you've limlited continuous shooting or you're in low speed continuous shooting (L=3fps).

Focus or release prioity shouldn't drop the frame rate like that with good lighting and good focus.

I'm stumped for now, but I believe that there's no way that 3 cameras are broken.

Are you fairly familar with Canon and the 1D series?  I would venture to guess that anyone that has three 1DX's would be. :)
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: GT3 on August 13, 2012, 01:31:27 PM
The camera will focus between each shot, regardless of whether you're in AI Servo or One Shot

I apologize for throwing in a question, but the following is confusing me.

If the camera is set to "One Shot" and to "continuous shooting", having pressed the shutter button halfway, it will focus. If then pressed completely and holding to shoot continuously, will the camera try to focus for every shoot?

I thought the focus will be looked for the entire burst taken.

Thank you very much for clarification.
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: neuroanatomist on August 13, 2012, 01:55:41 PM
If the camera is set to "One Shot" and to "continuous shooting", having pressed the shutter button halfway, it will focus. If then pressed completely and holding to shoot continuously, will the camera try to focus for every shoot?

I thought the focus will be looked for the entire burst taken.

Sorry for the confusion - you are correct, in One Shot with continuous shooting, the focus is locked with the first shot and remains locked until you release the shutter button.  Only in Servo is focus continually updated. 
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: GT3 on August 13, 2012, 02:05:49 PM
Thanks again. This was just confusing me as I try to understand as much as possible.

I´m a frequent reader of this forum, although I´m neither a pro nor an expert. This forum helps me a lot in learning and understanding. Thanks to everybody who is contributing and sharing his/her expertise to guys like me.

Apologize for another off topic post






Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Razor2012 on August 13, 2012, 02:20:59 PM
Thanks again. This was just confusing me as I try to understand as much as possible.

I´m a frequent reader of this forum, although I´m neither a pro nor an expert. This forum helps me a lot in learning and understanding. Thanks to everybody who is contributing and sharing his/her expertise to guys like me.

Apologize for another off topic post

No need for apologies, we are all here to learn.  It's not like you hijacked the thread or something.   ;)
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Kevin Weinstein on August 13, 2012, 08:51:18 PM
Hi Robert.  Yes, I am quite familiar with the 1D series.  Been on them since the 1Ds Mark II. 

I called Canon, and they are confused as well.  I even let them listen to the difference and the gentleman was a bit shocked.  We changed the custom setting to have a few different buttons lock focus in AI SERVO mode and no matter where we placed the focus lock button, the frames per second dropped considerably once the focus lock button was pressed.

I will keep you all posted!

KW
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Richard Lane on August 13, 2012, 08:53:38 PM
Thanks for the update!  Keep us posted and good luck!
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Kevin Weinstein on August 13, 2012, 09:00:07 PM
ooops.  Richard, not Robert.  Forgive me.   ::)
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Richard Lane on August 13, 2012, 09:07:57 PM
No  problem!
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Rex on September 22, 2012, 06:39:37 AM
I have the same problem, on a 5DmkIII though.  I have back button focus instead of the shutter button.  When I'm not focusing in AI Servo it shoots around 3fps.  If I am focusing it shoots at the normal 6fps.  The 1st and 2nd image priority is set to focus.  If I change it to anything other then focus it might pause at the start but does shoot at the full 6fps when focusing and when not.
Its odd because it is slow when not focusing, but normal when it is and only in Ai-servo.
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: MichaelLauer on September 22, 2012, 08:50:44 AM
I've been playing around with some of the servo focus settings on the 1Dx.  I am using all 61 focus points and am using the focus priority setting.

My subject matter is gymnastics and the targets move a lot.  Still, I'm almost always getting the full 12fps.  I do experience a delay if the camera cannot get a focus lock.

For your situation, I'm wondering if you are using all of the focus points or if you are using a smaller selection.  The reason is that a smaller selection such as a single focal point may not be able to get the focus locked as easily.
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Richard Lane on September 22, 2012, 11:14:42 AM
I have the same problem, on a 5DmkIII though.  I have back button focus instead of the shutter button.  When I'm not focusing in AI Servo it shoots around 3fps.  If I am focusing it shoots at the normal 6fps.  The 1st and 2nd image priority is set to focus.  If I change it to anything other then focus it might pause at the start but does shoot at the full 6fps when focusing and when not.
Its odd because it is slow when not focusing, but normal when it is and only in Ai-servo.

After further review and confirmation in the manual. I have deemed that this is a feature and not a problem with the 1DX or 5DIII. 

When you select 1st image "focus" priority and 2nd image "focus" priority the frame rate does slow down dramatically to ensure focus.

After further testing, "it appears to me that the 2nd image focus priority choice," has a greater impact on the shooting speed then the 1st image selection choice does.

"If I select 1st image focus priority, and 2nd image focus priority, the fps rate slows down."

"If I select 1st image release priority, and 2nd image focus priority, the fps rate slows down."

If I select 1st image focus priority, and 2nd image release priority then the the shooting speed is "fast."

* "So, it appears that the 2nd image focus priority choice slows the frame rate down more than the 1st image focus priority choice."

I have the default equal priority set for 1st and 2nd image and that seems to be working very well for me.

There is also another setting on the next menu: AF3:One Shot AF release priority, and I have that one set to "focus priority" which is also the default.

This One shot setting, coupled with the 2nd image focus priority choice, may further explain why some were getting different fps rates depending on which AF mode (One Shot vs. AI Servo) they were in.

Rich
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Rex on September 23, 2012, 09:03:12 AM
That all makes sense, but one of the main reasons I use back button focus is so that I can choose to manual focus when ever I want.  Its annoying that if Im not using the AF I'm still being restricted to the 3fps.
I can just set the 1st and 2nd image priority to equal which is fine because its normally focused by the time I want to take the photo.
Anyway cheers for the info!
Title: Re: 1Dx AI-Servo frame rate question
Post by: Richard Lane on September 23, 2012, 09:50:21 AM
I see your point, but since manual focus isn't that great for tracking fast subjects in AI servo, you might as well make the setting change to equal like you mentioned.

Or, if you want, you could still choose focus priority for 1st image,  and equal priority for 2nd image and it's still very fast, since it's the 2nd image that seems to be setting the fps and the 1st image sets a very slight initial delay, but since the 1DX is so fast at focusing I find the 1st image delay to be barely detectable.

The only reason I'm using equal for both is because I don't won't any delay for my action shots.

Cheers!