canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on August 19, 2012, 08:35:11 AM

Title: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Canon Rumors on August 19, 2012, 08:35:11 AM
The next EOS-1
While Canon called the EOS-1D X an amalgamation of the EOS-1 line, I don’t think everyone truly believed that the 1D-X was going to be the only flagship level camera in the lineup forever. It may have bought them some time while they got the EOS-1D X to market and worked on getting the EOS-1D C to market as well.

New Camera at the Olympics
I received two reports from the London Olympics that a 40mp+ camera was being tested by a couple of select photographers. The cameras housing was that of the EOS-1D X. It was also mentioned the camera had a significant framerate  for a resolution that high, one mentioned it at 8fps in RAW. There were other unspecified “new features and technology” in the camera body.

A seperate source has said it is possible that Canon will announce a big megapixel camera in 2012 for release sometime in 2013, however that has yet to be decided within Canon.

Just for the fun of it
Below is an image received by Northlight Images showing the Canon EOS lineup, Keith put some markers on it showing some interesting spaces and flow of the chart. Use it for entertainment purposes only.

Image from Northlight Images | http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_rumours.html

cr

Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Aaron78 on August 19, 2012, 08:58:21 AM
Sounds like an $8,500 camera to me
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Bob Howland on August 19, 2012, 08:59:22 AM
How many people are there who actually need 8FPS in a 40MP camera?
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Bob Howland on August 19, 2012, 09:01:00 AM
Sounds like an $8,500 camera to me

Or $10,000.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: c-law on August 19, 2012, 09:02:54 AM
High MP will trickle down eventually. Canon will put it in the top end first to make money from people who can afford the price but can't afford to wait. Then it'll trickle down to a roughly $3500 camera after a while.

Chris
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Danack on August 19, 2012, 09:45:04 AM
My 2c.

The right hand side of the triangle represents mirrorless. The EOS-M is totally within this section as it is totally mirrorless. The 650D is half on the mirrorless section as it has composite auto-focus for video and liveview mode.

"What goes here?" - a new camera.
"What does this little arrow mean?" - the new camera will be either fully mirrorless or at least have composite phase/contrast auto-focus like the 650D does.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Viggo on August 19, 2012, 10:05:07 AM
FF mirrorless ;D
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: FunPhotons on August 19, 2012, 10:39:10 AM
FF, 40+MP in a 1D body? I'd be all over it.

8FPS seems highly though, at least this year.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: kaihp on August 19, 2012, 10:43:18 AM
Slide translation:
Title: "Further expansion of EOS system"

Tier 1: "Pro"
Tier 2: "Middle"
Tier 3: "Entry"
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: FunPhotons on August 19, 2012, 10:45:40 AM
Slide translation:
Title: "Further expansion of EOS system"

Tier 1: "Pro"
Tier 2: "Middle"
Tier 3: "Entry"

Makes sense, and there is definitely a 1D body hole. With the 1DX out as a action body, a big pixel variation certainly makes sense.

I also doubt Canon would let Nikon take the big pixel lead.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: charlesa on August 19, 2012, 11:09:03 AM
Damn if a 40+ MP body with an 8 fps burst rate appears... but I believe it is too good to be true, and if you need 40 MP to crop, your composition MIGHT be a bit off...
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: zim on August 19, 2012, 11:27:31 AM
Looks to me that there two spaces to be filled on this graphic (assuming symmetry)

Right hand top tier and right hand middle tier

I’d say high pro MP 1D on top tier and entry level FF on second tier
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: keithfullermusic on August 19, 2012, 12:11:56 PM
I keep hearing mirrorless.  Does anyone want a mirrorless camera like that?  Why would yu spend that kind of money on a mirrorless camera?  What pro wants to be looking through the LCD?

I don't mean this in an insulting way, but why would canon make a billion dollar mirrorless?
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: nikkito on August 19, 2012, 01:28:52 PM
what about the camera outside this pyramid?  :o ;D

it doesn't seem to me that they were looking for symmetry.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: bvukich on August 19, 2012, 01:47:02 PM
I keep hearing mirrorless.  Does anyone want a mirrorless camera like that?  Why would yu spend that kind of money on a mirrorless camera?  What pro wants to be looking through the LCD?

I don't mean this in an insulting way, but why would canon make a billion dollar mirrorless?

X2
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: AprilForever on August 19, 2012, 01:54:07 PM
What are the cameras in the pyramid?
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 19, 2012, 02:18:02 PM
My 2c.

The right hand side of the triangle represents mirrorless. The EOS-M is totally within this section as it is totally mirrorless. The 650D is half on the mirrorless section as it has composite auto-focus for video and liveview mode.

"What goes here?" - a new camera.
"What does this little arrow mean?" - the new camera will be either fully mirrorless or at least have composite phase/contrast auto-focus like the 650D does.

As opposed to partially mirrorless?   ;)
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 19, 2012, 02:21:12 PM
This is hard to predict.  I didn't predict that Canon would try to "merge" the 1D and 1Ds lines together.  Well, they almost did, but not quite.  There can be no 1Ds Mark IV obviously, but the features of a ficticious one are nowhere to be found in a current model.  The question remains as to where Canon puts this in ranking vs. the 1DX and 5D3.  No way a 40mp camera will be $2000.  I predict it will be like the 1D Mark IV which fell in price between the 1Ds Mark III and the 5D Mark II.  I'm predicting only having enough features that it will be about $5k.  On the other hand, it is interesting to note that when both the 1Ds2 and 1Ds3 came out, they were both $8k and when the 1DX came out, only $6800.  So really, it's a toss up at this point.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Haydn1971 on August 19, 2012, 02:44:09 PM
I wonder if the Canon marketing people will embrace the Apple style of version numbering...   I.e. dump it and just have product ranges and call a new one just "the new Canon 1Dx" etc ?
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: charlesa on August 19, 2012, 02:45:20 PM
I wonder if the Canon marketing people will embrace the Apple style of version numbering...   I.e. dump it and just have product ranges and call a new one just "the new Canon 1Dx" etc ?

I don't see it happening. Branding is important both to Canon and photographers.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: jouster on August 19, 2012, 02:51:32 PM
I'm not sure if anything goes next to the 1DX on the right.

Look at the presentation - apart from the middle tier with 4 cameras, the 4 3 1 makes a pyramid.

If the 1DX was centered, it would ruin the entire aesthetic of the page.



The aesthetic is already ruined. If they want it to look pretty, they need to move it over to the right!

Or, release something for that gaping hole in the graphic.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: zim on August 19, 2012, 02:57:11 PM
I'm not sure if anything goes next to the 1DX on the right.

Look at the presentation - apart from the middle tier with 4 cameras, the 4 3 1 makes a pyramid.

If the 1DX was centered, it would ruin the entire aesthetic of the page.



The aesthetic is already ruined. If they want it to look pretty, they need to move it over to the right!

Or, release something for that gaping hole in the graphic.


Exactly that's my point and on that basis there are actually two gaps to be filled, both on the right hand side....... don't ya just love a slow news day  ;D ;D
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Musouka on August 19, 2012, 03:09:43 PM
The 1DZ (or should that be the 1DY?) is coming soon, folks. Remember, you heard it here first.  8)

Z would of course stand for 'Zenith' but if it's a Y then we can hear the echo of fans reiterating 'Y So Late?'  :P

I will be looking forward to seeing those partially non-mirroless cameras  ;D
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: bdunbar79 on August 19, 2012, 03:16:34 PM
The 1DZ (or should that be the 1DY?) is coming soon, folks. Remember, you heard it here first.  8)

Z would of course stand for 'Zenith' but if it's a Y then we can hear the echo of fans reiterating 'Y So Late?'  :P

I will be looking forward to seeing those partially non-mirroless cameras  ;D

Musouka, I have to do it:

PARTIALLY MIRRORLESS:

Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: zim on August 19, 2012, 03:24:03 PM
I wonder if the Canon marketing people will embrace the Apple style of version numbering...   I.e. dump it and just have product ranges and call a new one just "the new Canon 1Dx" etc ?


F1(n) -> New F1

Apple didn't even invent that one!
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: zim on August 19, 2012, 03:27:55 PM
How about calling it '1DA' so we can look forward to another 36 years of dripping roast upgrades  ::) :P

sorry, sorry I really just couldn't help that one  ;) ;D

Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Bengt Nyman on August 19, 2012, 04:43:41 PM
Why would you spend that kind of money on a mirrorless camera?
The mirror, its inaccurate focusing plane and its slapping around are what prevents digital cameras from reaching the next level of resolution and accuracy. The 36 MP Nikon D600(E) is presently both camera of the year and Nikon's biggest headache. The era of the DSLR, the mechanical slapper box, is rapidly coming to a close.
 
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: TAF on August 19, 2012, 05:27:42 PM
I keep hearing mirrorless.  Does anyone want a mirrorless camera like that?  Why would yu spend that kind of money on a mirrorless camera?  What pro wants to be looking through the LCD?

I don't mean this in an insulting way, but why would canon make a billion dollar mirrorless?


The Single Lens Reflex was the solution to the viewfinder problem in interchangeable lens FILM cameras.  The only reason it sticks around is a combination of tradition and conservatism.  It is a solution to a rapidly vanishing problem.

Remember that before the SLR, the vast majority of interchangeable lens cameras were viewfinder types.  The viewfinder was good for only one focal length; once you changed lenses, either you needed a separate viewfinder or a corrective optic that you looked through.  Both solutions were unsatisfactory (and suffered from parallax), but it was all we had before the SLR.  The only other styles were of course the view camera (where the SLR idea came from I imagine) and the TLR (where you had two lenses, and hence twice the cost).

Today, there is no need to look through the lens when the sensor can provide a perfect view to an electronic viewfinder.

You might still want a shutter curtain (doing it electronically isn't always the best answer), but there is no reason that a shutter couldn't still be there, it would just reverse the operation.  Push the capture button and the curtain closes, then reopens to see the view again.

I for one would consider a FF mirrorless to replace my 5D3 in due course, provided it has all the same capabilities (particularly the high ISO and frame rate).

Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: RS2021 on August 19, 2012, 06:05:00 PM
I second that. It is a travesty only as long as the sheep dole out more money without demanding substantive changes from the camera maker.  In this day and age there is no reason why we talk about "fps" in the 10's when this bottle neck is introduced primarily by  the shutter/mirror mechanics and of course the speed at which the chips and the system are able to process and record the images falling on the sensor.  Computers and chips evolve continually and very fast. As I see it...the primary hurdle is to break the strangle hold mirror boxes have over the community... but that will reduce the flimsy super-duper number the companies use to bait us with..8.9 fps!!! (Oh my god, you wet your panties!) ...the new cam is 9.2 fps...(OH My god!!! I need stronger Depends)...

Mirrorless full frames are the future, when this will happen... depends on the number of sheep... baaahhh! :)
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: AG on August 19, 2012, 07:58:20 PM
Mirrorless full frames are the future, when this will happen... depends on the number of sheep... baaahhh! :)

Or if you want mirror less "SLR" now you can buy one of the Sony Alpha cameras.

Used one the other day, it just felt wrong.

I missed the mirror slap. :o
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: expatinasia on August 19, 2012, 08:43:28 PM
How many people are there who actually need 8FPS in a 40MP camera?

Quite a lot I am sure, why not. Gives you more choices in post.

If this is true, and an 8fps 40Mp camera came out in the next 6 months, I am sure a few 1DX buyers would be pretty annoyed.

Would be interesting to see what technology they build into such a system. Headphone jack would be one - if you can call that technology!!

Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: xthebillx on August 19, 2012, 09:50:31 PM
How many people are there who actually need 8FPS in a 40MP camera?

Quite a lot I am sure, why not. Gives you more choices in post.

If this is true, and an 8fps 40Mp camera came out in the next 6 months, I am sure a few 1DX buyers would be pretty annoyed.

Would be interesting to see what technology they build into such a system. Headphone jack would be one - if you can call that technology!!

X2
Being an early 5D3 adopter, it's kind of annoying that canon is releasing specs on the year's bodies one at a time. It's somewhat smart for canon; but at the consumer end, it sucks because if a body that better fits your needs is announced a quarter or two later you sell at a loss or buy another body. Announcing the whole line mid-year for the following year would be so much better for the consumer...it works that way for the auto industry!
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: 1DSLR on August 20, 2012, 01:40:17 AM
I have a theory about what the upper left arrow means by pointing off and away from the triangle.  That arrow represents Canon users that give up and change over to Sony/Nikon/Panasonic/Olympus/etc.:

(http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/camera_images_8/Canon/misc/rumourology.data_/img_01-over.jpg)
(image from Northern Light)

Sony is the most likely since Sony has less invested in DSLR's.  Unfortunately, Sony persists in failing to provide features expected in camera bodies at this price point for the more advanced photographer market sector.

For example, I would purchase a NEX 7 plus the new version of the Metabones EOS to Sony E-mount adapter to provide a digital back for my favorite Canon lenses while retaining their image stabilization and electronic aperture control.  The NEX 7 reportedly has good focus peaking (3 selectable levels of focus peaking) for my focusing needs on that body.  For a small, quiet, reportedly high IQ camera, Sony's new RX100 might become my new always-with-me camera.

However, Sony's NEX 7 and the RX100 both fail to meet one of my critical needs, autoexposure bracketing.  The NEX 7 and the RX100 will autoexposure bracket a maximum of 3 exposures at a maximum of only +/- 0.7EV!  Furthermore, this is never stated in the Sony's RX100 manual (which sets a new standard in inadequate documentation); you have to find out this from user reviews.

The NEX (and probably the RX100, but you can't find out from Sony's "manual") has an HDR mode, but then it only saves JPEG's, not RAW.  What were they thinking?

I also have a theory why Sony continues to provide such inadequate AEB on some of its top end cameras.  Actually the AEB specification was written to provide up to 7 exposures with each step up to 3EV.  However, someone mixed up the numbers and a decimal point and it became only 3 exposures each up to 0.7EV steps.  This error now perpetuates itself because no one wants to admit it; the loss of face would be too great.

Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: caruser on August 20, 2012, 03:31:02 AM
Announcing the whole line mid-year for the following year would be so much better for the consumer...it works that way for the auto industry!

That sounds like an interesting comparison, we are so used to secrecy from companies like Canon or Apple, but on the other hand car makers don't seem to suffer it being known more than a year in advance when a replacement is due, and even other tech companies like Intel have reasonably well known road maps and schedules. So why?
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: nicku on August 20, 2012, 03:54:11 AM
I have a theory about what the upper left arrow means by pointing off and away from the triangle.  That arrow represents Canon users that give up and change over to Sony/Nikon/Panasonic/Olympus/etc.:



Sony is the most likely since Sony has less invested in DSLR's.  Unfortunately, Sony persists in failing to provide features expected in camera bodies at this price point for the more advanced photographer market sector.

For example, I would purchase a NEX 7 plus the new version of the Metabones EOS to Sony E-mount adapter to provide a digital back for my favorite Canon lenses while retaining their image stabilization and electronic aperture control.  The NEX 7 reportedly has good focus peaking (3 selectable levels of focus peaking) for my focusing needs on that body.  For a small, quiet, reportedly high IQ camera, Sony's new RX100 might become my new always-with-me camera.

However, Sony's NEX 7 and the RX100 both fail to meet one of my critical needs, autoexposure bracketing.  The NEX 7 and the RX100 will autoexposure bracket a maximum of 3 exposures at a maximum of only +/- 0.7EV!  Furthermore, this is never stated in the Sony's RX100 manual (which sets a new standard in inadequate documentation); you have to find out this from user reviews.

The NEX (and probably the RX100, but you can't find out from Sony's "manual") has an HDR mode, but then it only saves JPEG's, not RAW.  What were they thinking?

I also have a theory why Sony continues to provide such inadequate AEB on some of its top end cameras.  Actually the AEB specification was written to provide up to 7 exposures with each step up to 3EV.  However, someone mixed up the numbers and a decimal point and it became only 3 exposures each up to 0.7EV steps.  This error now perpetuates itself because no one wants to admit it; the loss of face would be too great.

Considering that Sony is providing ALL the sensors for Nikon DSLR's... I wonder why to compete with them when the sensor business is so good. Concentrate on mirrorless and high end compacts. Sony is addressing to the really big majority of the buyers - The compact camera users.

In my opinion a really smart marketing/profit move.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: meli on August 20, 2012, 05:32:31 AM
I second that. It is a travesty only as long as the sheep dole out more money without demanding substantive changes from the camera maker.  In this day and age there is no reason why we talk about "fps" in the 10's when this bottle neck is introduced primarily by  the shutter/mirror mechanics and of course the speed at which the chips and the system are able to process and record the images falling on the sensor.  Computers and chips evolve continually and very fast. As I see it...the primary hurdle is to break the strangle hold mirror boxes have over the community... but that will reduce the flimsy super-duper number the companies use to bait us with..8.9 fps!!! (Oh my god, you wet your panties!) ...the new cam is 9.2 fps...(OH My god!!! I need stronger Depends)...

Mirrorless full frames are the future, when this will happen... depends on the number of sheep... baaahhh! :)

Lets see what happens to the current MP leader, the d800:

It shares the same mirrorbox/shutter with D4 (11fps).
In this case if mirrorbox was at full speed you would have to move approximately:

74.4MB x 11 = 818MB/s or 6.55Gbit/s to the processor and then
41.3MB x 11 = 462MB/s or 3.7Gbit/s throughput to the storage.

Even if you could load the camera with serious ram and processor you would hit into power efficiency and thermal/interference issues which with the current technology would probably require also a complete redesign of the dslr form.

So in this case everything else in the chain is the bottleneck in getting the full mirror potential

Assuming that mirror/shutter would peak at around 10-14fps, data throughput & cpu intensive tasks (such as a move to 16bit files, lens correction, deconvolution sharpening etc) will balance out the advancements in tech for the near future.

Apart from that, evf vs ovf although promising still has a long way to go & i'd rather see fully fledged HUD implementations in the next slr generation than laggy dr-limited noisy evfs

All in all i would be confident buying slrs for the next decade!
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Bengt Nyman on August 20, 2012, 07:40:20 AM
Quote
If you want mirror less "SLR" now you can buy one of the Sony Alpha cameras.
Not quite.
You still get a semitranslucent mirror, though stationary, but worse; Sony Alpha still uses off-sensor focusing.
The reasons why future high IQ cameras should be mirrorless is to achieve accurate image sensor focus, and to avoid SLR mirror vibrations.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Daniel Flather on August 20, 2012, 11:53:26 AM
My 2c.

The right hand side of the triangle represents mirrorless. The EOS-M is totally within this section as it is totally mirrorless. The 650D is half on the mirrorless section as it has composite auto-focus for video and liveview mode.

"What goes here?" - a new camera.
"What does this little arrow mean?" - the new camera will be either fully mirrorless or at least have composite phase/contrast auto-focus like the 650D does.

As opposed to partially mirrorless?   ;)

+1 I had the same thought.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: FunPhotons on August 20, 2012, 03:38:31 PM
From a marketing standpoint I doubt they'll release a high FPS version, even if they could. Presumably they'll need to keep the same focus and exposure system as the 1DX, I can't imagine they'd cripple that with both the 5DmkIII and 1DX having it. If they also kept a high FPS then why would anybody buy a 1DX?

My guess it will have worse ISO and FPS, but otherwise be identical with the 1DX and having 40+ MP. If they do it.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: jouster on August 20, 2012, 04:46:51 PM
Why would you spend that kind of money on a mirrorless camera?
The mirror, its inaccurate focusing plane and its slapping around are what prevents digital cameras from reaching the next level of resolution and accuracy. The 36 MP Nikon D600(E) is presently both camera of the year and Nikon's biggest headache. The era of the DSLR, the mechanical slapper box, is rapidly coming to a close.
 

Its end can't come soon enough.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: moreorless on August 20, 2012, 06:39:36 PM
Quote
If you want mirror less "SLR" now you can buy one of the Sony Alpha cameras.
Not quite.
You still get a semitranslucent mirror, though stationary, but worse; Sony Alpha still uses off-sensor focusing.
The reasons why future high IQ cameras should be mirrorless is to achieve accurate image sensor focus, and to avoid SLR mirror vibrations.

Theres nothing to stop this in current generation FF SLR's, the mirror can be flipped up and on sensor focusing used.

The reality is that on sensor AF still lags well behind phase AF in speed and tracking ability while EVF tech is still(and likely never will be) the equal of an OVF in realism aswell as being a power drain.

Personally as mostly a landscape shooter who generally uses wide/normal focal lenghts I would be intersted in a FF mirrorless for the size advanatge but the benefits seem much more questionable for other users. Thats I'd guess part of the reason we havent seen one outside of a Leica appear yet, FF sensored cameras are already a niche market so sticking with SLRs you appeal to both the landscape/studio users and action users, alot of the former likely still shoot some of the latter aswell so the extra bulk isnt totally wasted on them.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: swrightgfx on August 21, 2012, 12:23:18 AM
What mount would a FF mirrorless use, anyway? The only Canon mount that will work would be the EF mount, as it is the only one that would provide a large enough image circle; however, in order to have it focus, you'd need to maintain the existing flange focal distance, which would also do away with any hope of maintaining a compact form factor anywhere similar to the EOS-M (not to mention the lenses would dwarf the camera itself).

As I have said before (see below), a high-megapixel square "APS-H" 28x28mm sensor rangefinder would provide a good mirrorless solution fr the pro user.

Hey if we are gonna dream, how about we make that sensor square too?! Then we are really cooking :D

I'll buy that.

While the EF mount can accommodate a much larger image circle than most EF lenses currently provide, using a square sensor would indeed only be possible with APS-H and not full-frame, without users having to invest in new glass. The image circle for "APS-H" 28x28 would equate to ~40mm, while square "full frame" 36x36 would require ~50mm (which would only allow for TS-E lenses to be used without severe vignette).

The key point, though, is that both would most likely need to be mirrorless to provide enough lens clearance and maintain infinity.

What about a "Square APS-H" rangefinder targeted to plug the mirrorless gap for professionals?
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Bengt Nyman on August 21, 2012, 05:52:13 AM
Theres nothing to stop this in current generation FF SLR's, the mirror can be flipped up and on sensor focusing used.
Agreed.
And we do that when we have to, but it's blind, tedious and useful mostly on tripod for stationary subjects.
I would like to be able to get the same results while viewing and without a tripod.
The solution to my needs is not necessarily an ultimate sports camera with hyper fast focus tracking, it's more of a high IQ handheld National Geographics camera. 
I fully trust that the Cmos industry is capable of producing exact on-sensor focus fast enough for general use. I also believe that we will shortly see implementations of optically magnified live view that rival the old optical viewers. I will gladly trade the clarity of the slapping mirror for a magnified live view with exposure preview, dynamic range preview and focus highlight.
 
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: CanonFanBoy on August 21, 2012, 05:57:51 AM
I really hope Canon is not heading towards the wrong direction in this MegaPix war with Nikon ... this round, the competition is not about the number of pixels but the quality of the pixels that put the D800 spreading like wild fire in the market place! Nikon has created a new niche this time .... for giving photographers medium format image quality with a DSLR body and price that took the market by storm!

So, whatever Canon is coming out soon, make sure it is not about packing another few more megapix in the same old silicon die to fool the market .... in order to lead in the Professional and Enthusiast segment again, Canon needs to do something really major to improve on its senor technology especially in terms of Dynamic Range (16stops), Colour Depth (16bits) and Noise ... I hope Canon don't miss the boat, this round!!!!  ;)
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Bengt Nyman on August 21, 2012, 06:39:02 AM
It is not about the number of pixels but the quality of the pixels that put the D800 spreading like wild fire in the market place! Nikon has created a new niche this time ... I hope Canon don't miss the boat, this round!
The credit goes to Sony, who developed the Nikon D800(E) image sensor. This Sony-Nikon agreement will soon allow the same technology will become available to others.
The big difference in shooting a D800 versus any other FF camera is the D800's depth of detail which eliminates the need to frame tightly using a fuzzy zoom lens and instead allows shooting wider frames with the very best primes. The post cropped image then offers the very best in both detail depth and lens sharpness.
Unfortunately the Nikon D800 focusing problems are taking the edge off Nikon's success with the D800.
Sony themselves, Leica and Hasselblad are jumping on the bandwagon and are also likely to reap great benefits from this Sony high MP technology.
   
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: JR on August 21, 2012, 01:24:24 PM
It is not about the number of pixels but the quality of the pixels that put the D800 spreading like wild fire in the market place! Nikon has created a new niche this time ... I hope Canon don't miss the boat, this round!
The credit goes to Sony, who developed the Nikon D800(E) image sensor. This Sony-Nikon agreement will soon allow the same technology will become available to others.
The big difference in shooting a D800 versus any other FF camera is the D800's depth of detail which eliminates the need to frame tightly using a fuzzy zoom lens and instead allows shooting wider frames with the very best primes. The post cropped image then offers the very best in both detail depth and lens sharpness.
Unfortunately the Nikon D800 focusing problems are taking the edge off Nikon's success with the D800.
Sony themselves, Leica and Hasselblad are jumping on the bandwagon and are also likely to reap great benefits from this Sony high MP technology.
 

I agree.  Sometime I am amazed of what I can find cropping the D800 image taken with a 35mm lens for example.  Almost like an image within an image.  I get the wide angle view and can crop to zoom equivalent on the face to create close up from the same file.  On a few occasion it allowed me a great close-up I could not have done so...
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: paulrossjones on August 21, 2012, 03:22:15 PM
I keep hearing mirrorless.  Does anyone want a mirrorless camera like that?  Why would yu spend that kind of money on a mirrorless camera?  What pro wants to be looking through the LCD?

I don't mean this in an insulting way, but why would canon make a billion dollar mirrorless?


The Single Lens Reflex was the solution to the viewfinder problem in interchangeable lens FILM cameras.  The only reason it sticks around is a combination of tradition and conservatism.  It is a solution to a rapidly vanishing problem.

Remember that before the SLR, the vast majority of interchangeable lens cameras were viewfinder types.  The viewfinder was good for only one focal length; once you changed lenses, either you needed a separate viewfinder or a corrective optic that you looked through.  Both solutions were unsatisfactory (and suffered from parallax), but it was all we had before the SLR.  The only other styles were of course the view camera (where the SLR idea came from I imagine) and the TLR (where you had two lenses, and hence twice the cost).

Today, there is no need to look through the lens when the sensor can provide a perfect view to an electronic viewfinder.

You might still want a shutter curtain (doing it electronically isn't always the best answer), but there is no reason that a shutter couldn't still be there, it would just reverse the operation.  Push the capture button and the curtain closes, then reopens to see the view again.

I for one would consider a FF mirrorless to replace my 5D3 in due course, provided it has all the same capabilities (particularly the high ISO and frame rate).

when im on film shoots, the DPs seem to always complain about lag/latency problems, and missing the real view they had with optical finders. this is with arri alexis- and they have full hd evfs, possibly the best quality. this is why arri is releasing a optical view finder digital camera soon.
these problems will exist for a while until technology catches up.


as for 40mp in a 1dx body- bring it on. charge more if you have to, and improve the low end noise to the level of the d800, and i wont have to change systems.

paul
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Bengt Nyman on August 22, 2012, 03:08:27 AM
when im on film shoots, the DPs seem to always complain about lag/latency problems, and missing the real view they had with optical finders. paul
Hi Paul,
Good info. How much of a time lag are we talking about ?
Enough to upset a portrait, dull a circus act, or miss a passing race car ?
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Bengt Nyman on August 23, 2012, 04:04:35 PM
Sony announces new mirrorless image sensor technology with PD autofocus pixels on the image sensor. Possibly part of a two step process with fast PD autofocus before final accurate CD microfocus, both on the image sensor. 2012 is going to be a banner year for mirrorless photography innovation at the top.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Bengt Nyman on September 15, 2012, 03:45:00 AM
I was hoping that Hasselblad would introduce something new 2012, like they have been boosting about. Though the H5D is new to Hasselblad, the technology and capability only represents a new model year. A $ 6,000 body price would get my attention but my dealer reports $ 10,000.
The only affordable megapixel is still the Nikon D800, severely tarnished by it's focusing problems and Nikon's failure to admit and inform.
However, I welcome the Sony RX1: Though only 24 MP, this mirrorless FF with a fixed MF-AF Zeiss 35 and optional EVF-OVF could be the trick on the street.
     
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Bengt Nyman on September 17, 2012, 02:29:50 PM
Breaking: Hasselblad will release a high-end mirrorless camera | Photo Rumors
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: bdunbar79 on September 17, 2012, 02:36:04 PM
Speaking of the D800, is it true in Nikon cameras, when you are in auto ISO, you can still do EC?  I heard this, but wasn't sure.  That would be incredibly useful.  However, the Nikon cameras do not have the high ISO performance I need, so that purchasing is a moot point, but was just curious on the EC point.  Thanks.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Bengt Nyman on September 17, 2012, 06:14:44 PM
Speaking of the D800, is it true in Nikon cameras, when you are in auto ISO, you can still do EC?
You can do EC (Exposure Compensation) in both manual ISO and auto ISO. Auto ISO does not alter your exposure (ISO+aperture setting+exposure time) it only tries to optimize ISO for the exposure that you or the camera have selected, be it a compensated exposure or not.
You would normally not select auto ISO (or EC) in full manual mode since it would rob you of full control.   
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: bdunbar79 on September 17, 2012, 07:36:40 PM
Speaking of the D800, is it true in Nikon cameras, when you are in auto ISO, you can still do EC?
You can do EC (Exposure Compensation) in both manual ISO and auto ISO. Auto ISO does not alter your exposure (ISO+aperture setting+exposure time) it only tries to optimize ISO for the exposure that you or the camera have selected, be it a compensated exposure or not.
You would normally not select auto ISO (or EC) in full manual mode since it would rob you of full control.

Thanks,

Most cases, no you wouldn't.  But in the lighting situations I shoot in with sports, auto ISO with EC +2/3 would be very, very useful, especially at night football or night soccer where one team has white jerseys.  The lighting changes across the field way too much at night, even just when players turn a different direction.  I'm not saying you can't shoot in those situations accurately, it's just it would be very useful if you could do it that way.  You then just worry about shutter speed and depth of field.  Just curious why Nikon can do it but Canon can't.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: dolgachov on September 17, 2012, 07:46:47 PM
all i really need from canon is 1Ds Mark 4 to replace my ages old Mark 3. i really love the usability of Canon, but 21Mp is way too low resolution, so i'm forced to use H4D as a main camera and old 1Ds as a second one.

please bring me 28-36 Mp 1Ds with decent ISO range and i don't care if it will cost another 10.000 USD.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: SJTstudios on September 17, 2012, 09:58:22 PM
How many people are there who actually need 8FPS in a 40MP camera?

A lot would love it, but it wouldn't work. A processor that could do that is way beyond our limits.
It will be more like 4. Because if you did an 8 fps burst, it would start buffering after about 2 seconds.
Title: Re: More Big Megapixel Talk
Post by: Bengt Nyman on September 18, 2012, 04:38:52 AM
Just curious why Nikon can do it but Canon can't.
Hi bdunbar 79
Why do you say that Canon can't ? Maybe I didn't understand your question.