canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on September 07, 2012, 05:48:40 PM

Title: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Canon Rumors on September 07, 2012, 05:48:40 PM
UPDATE
I had a typo below, it should have read “same sensor as 5D3″. Sorry for the confusion. 

Canon EOS 6D
Another suggestion that the Canon EOS 6D will be announced soon. It might be announced on a different day than the PowerShot and Pixma announcements early next week.

Specifications

New source, so CR1 on this.

cr

Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: David Hull on September 07, 2012, 05:53:19 PM
Anyone else having trouble with the name "6D"?  Canon have never (that I can remember) tagged anything in the XD series with an even number.  Not that there is any rule or that they can't start but it seems a bit strange to me.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: djxavier on September 07, 2012, 05:54:20 PM
please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: scokar on September 07, 2012, 05:56:56 PM
I Really hope its a newer sensor than the 5D II.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: lonelywhitelights on September 07, 2012, 05:59:02 PM
I Really hope its a newer sensor than the 5D II.

Nothing wrong with that sensor
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: cura on September 07, 2012, 05:59:42 PM
What camer would this be? 60D replacement? Or the 'cheap' FF camera?
What would the price point be? ~2k? What would be better than the 5dII (which seems to be available for ~1800 right now)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: sjp010 on September 07, 2012, 06:00:17 PM
please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true
+1.  I'd buy one immediately.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: 1337 on September 07, 2012, 06:01:52 PM
please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true please be true
this this this this
after a quite a bit of hardship, triumph, and beautiful moments captured, my 5dII needs to be retired soon. With a (hopefully) digic 5 processor, similar sensor (rumored), all at a (hopefully) good price, the 5Djunior will have my name all over it!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: bp on September 07, 2012, 06:06:36 PM
I frequently shoot with a 5D3 in one hand and a 5D2 in the other.  Have zero complaints about the 5D2's sensor, but the AF drives me crazy.  This would be awesome
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: cliffwang on September 07, 2012, 06:07:15 PM
What camer would this be? 60D replacement? Or the 'cheap' FF camera?
What would the price point be? ~2k? What would be better than the 5dII (which seems to be available for ~1800 right now)

2K is reasonable for now.  You pay 200 more for better AF system and better sensor(maybe).  However, I think Canon will just wait till Nikon releases the price of D600.  I will guess the price will be about 15% more than the price of D600.
Many of my friend is waiting for the new entry FF camera.  I just could not wait long enough and jump into 5D3.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: cliffwang on September 07, 2012, 06:09:17 PM
I frequently shoot with a 5D3 in one hand and a 5D2 in the other.  Have zero complaints about the 5D2's sensor, but the AF drives me crazy.  This would be awesome
Agree!
I hadn't complained the AF system on my 5D2 till I switched to 5D3.  Totally different AF system.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: DArora on September 07, 2012, 06:16:59 PM
I Really hope its a newer sensor than the 5D II.

There is nothing wrong with 5D2 sensor. It is pretty good just the AF is messed up. If this information is true, it will be a great camera. I will buy. :)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: t.linn on September 07, 2012, 06:18:35 PM
I Really hope its a newer sensor than the 5D II.

Nothing wrong with that sensor

It is certainly capable of capturing beautiful images but compared to the state-of-the-art Sony sensors Nikon is using it lags behind, particularly in terms of DR.  In fact, if you look at the capabilities of the sensor in the 5D3—and I write this as a largely satisfied 5D3 owner—Canon appears to have made absolutely no progress in this area of sensor development.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: t.linn on September 07, 2012, 06:21:09 PM
If these specs are accurate and if this is priced aggressively, this body would absolutely destroy the resale value of the 5D2.  Of course, I'm assuming that Canon isn't omitting some major feature (like video) that is available in the 5D2.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: fotoray on September 07, 2012, 06:23:17 PM
Flip flash like xxD and 7D?  Or does this FF prevent flip flash like others?  :(
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: 1337 on September 07, 2012, 06:25:55 PM
If these specs are accurate and if this is priced aggressively, this body would absolutely destroy the resale value of the 5D2.  Of course, I'm assuming that Canon isn't omitting some major feature (like video) that is available in the 5D2.

5D2 have dropped from 2k used to ~1400-1500 used. I think canon's (pardon the wordplay) superb refurb pricing caused this.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Iahcon on September 07, 2012, 06:27:58 PM
ok, so I guess this is in answer to nikon's new cheap full frame offering. Ho-hum, i'm a little bored. I am waiting for an upgrade to my 5D II but wasn't really WOW'd with the mkIII. And now this.
Anyways, why would it be the same sensor as the mark II?? I mean seriously, that sensor is what, 6 years old? And although it is a marvelous sensor why in the world would they put it in a new model camera? I would have to say "of course it will be a new sensor"
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: shtfmeister on September 07, 2012, 06:28:17 PM
Doesn't the "lower build quality" mean that it will be a xxD instead of an xD series?
Just saying that the xD is Pro/semi pro levels and an entry level of "lower build quality" would not be in the upper strata i.e. xxD
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Waleed Essam on September 07, 2012, 06:30:28 PM
I highly doubt this rumor, I believe if there will be a 6D entry level FF priced @ 1999 USD then it will the same 5DII body but with the 5DIII sensor, that's it. Maybe a few more bells and whistles but not much improvement than the current 5DII body.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: azizjhn on September 07, 2012, 06:32:28 PM
I hope it has 5D MKIII sensor with same quality & low light performance with 7D features including Wireless flash trigger & HDR then it will be day one purchase
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: cliffwang on September 07, 2012, 06:33:29 PM

It is certainly capable of capturing beautiful images but compared to the state-of-the-art Sony sensors Nikon is using it lags behind, particularly in terms of DR.  In fact, if you look at the capabilities of the sensor in the 5D3—and I write this as a largely satisfied 5D3 owner—Canon appears to have made absolutely no progress in this area of sensor development.

Yes and No for me.
I know current Sony is making great sensors.  However, most people should be satisfied by current 5D3 even 5D2 sensors.  How many of your friends really you lightroom around you?  For me, not many.  For some PROs, DR might be a plus, but just might.  For me, a normal user taking photos for my family, better DR doesn't really bring much benefit for me.  Personally, higher MP is more important than DR for future use.  my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: jfretless on September 07, 2012, 06:38:45 PM
I so hope this is true...  Been quite content with my 7D and 1D3 for a couple of years now.  Actually, complacent.  When I saw Nikon's D600 rumors, I got fired up.  ...even though I've always been a Canon guy, film days.  At $1500 price for a FF...  I would consider using both systems.   Then I saw the Nikkor lens prices, would hate to buy new glass, even one good lens would cost $1500+.  So, I'm praying that Canon has a answer to the D600.

The 5D2 is not a option with it's AF, and the 5D3 is just too expensive to justify.

Come on Canon, get my photographic juices flowing again!

John
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: sleepnever on September 07, 2012, 07:08:59 PM
I so hope this is true...  Been quite content with my 7D and 1D3 for a couple of years now.  Actually, complacent.  When I saw Nikon's D600 rumors, I got fired up.  ...even though I've always been a Canon guy, film days.  At $1500 price for a FF...  I would consider using both systems.   Then I saw the Nikkor lens prices, would hate to buy new glass, even one good lens would cost $1500+.  So, I'm praying that Canon has a answer to the D600.

The 5D2 is not a option with it's AF, and the 5D3 is just too expensive to justify.

Come on Canon, get my photographic juices flowing again!

John

That pretty much applies to me as well. I've had a T2i for about 2 years now and I'm looking for an upgrade. The only L glass I have is the 24-70 v1 and had considered switching to Nikon if their D600 is awesome... but the price of their glass would put me back at square one with kit lenses for a while.

Cmon Canon!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: poias on September 07, 2012, 07:09:33 PM
Seriously, does anyone believe in 6D? All of these have been anonymous web "tips", aka wishful thinking. Canon will not release a cheap FF until either 5D3 sales stop, or Nikon officially releases and proves that cheap FF will take off enough to make money.

There will be no 3D, 6D, or even 7D2 anytime soon. Canon, is done with 1DX, 5D3, 7D, and a bunch of rebels for 2012. Their sales have been successful with those... why bother when all you have to do is release a second rate sensor and everybody starts drooling all over.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: mitch.o on September 07, 2012, 07:13:31 PM
I will pre-order this camera if it's better than the 5d mkii and not too much more expensive. If not... I'll just shop around for a used mkii and live with the AF system.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on September 07, 2012, 07:59:39 PM
Seriously, does anyone believe in 6D? All of these have been anonymous web "tips", aka wishful thinking. Canon will not release a cheap FF until either 5D3 sales stop, or Nikon officially releases and proves that cheap FF will take off enough to make money.

Canon might very well preempt Nikon this time, and after all they named the 5d3 as it is because it replaces the 5d2 and not because they'll produce the predecessor forever.

The simple fact is that the pressure from below (all the aps-c with the current 18mp sensor) is building up, so Canon has to do something in the $2000 region. They cannot come up with an really improved aps-c sensor, that's why they released the hyped 7d firmware update to keep it alive. So they have to do something in the 5d2 ff region or lower the 5d3 price significantly - unfortunately, the latter is unlikely.

For me, the only question is how dumbed-down a 6d will be - plastic body, much less customizations, no c on the dial, no afma :-> ?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Chosenbydestiny on September 07, 2012, 08:00:01 PM
Seriously, does anyone believe in 6D? All of these have been anonymous web "tips", aka wishful thinking. Canon will not release a cheap FF until either 5D3 sales stop, or Nikon officially releases and proves that cheap FF will take off enough to make money.

There will be no 3D, 6D, or even 7D2 anytime soon. Canon, is done with 1DX, 5D3, 7D, and a bunch of rebels for 2012. Their sales have been successful with those... why bother when all you have to do is release a second rate sensor and everybody starts drooling all over.

I love seeing posts like this, that we can think back at and laugh at when the camera does come out. People said the same thing about the 7D when it was speculated. "How will it fit in the line up when the line up is already (as assumed previously) doing fine?" Well, obviously it isn't doing fine. There's definitely room between the 5D III and the 7D especially after Canon decided to dramatically up the AF and build specs in the 5D line. (Funny how so many people asked for it, said they'd pay for it, and now that it's here they say it's overpriced) After the "uproar" of this price increase, and the "uproar" from the Nikon side actually complaining about too many megapixels in the D800 (not everyone wants more megapixels, for example event shooters that shoot up to 5k+ photos a day don't want to deal with it or simply don't want/need it) So I am confident Nikon will pull through with their cheaper full frame body. In order for Canon to stay in the game, they need to pull a new product in as well. They did the same thing with xxxD bodies to compete with Nikon's lower end crap for people who have no thumbs and a shallow learning curve. Nikon had the right idea there, and the sales prove it. Nikon did similar improvements to the automatic features up the line and now you have all these Nikon users saying look ma, I can shoot. (my favorite excuse is when they say they spend less time fiddling with settings and more time taking great photos which we all know was never really an issue in the past for pro photographers) More and more people want DSLRs, and even more of those people don't care for a professional opinion. They just want to take great photos with less effort. This market is way bigger than the professional market. Now, we go further up the line and see the market of people who are shooting crop (including the thumbless padawans) and want to upgrade to full frame. Or even full frame users who need a backup body, but don't want a crop. It makes a lot more sense than you think. It wouldn't kill Canon to make a frankencamera out of 5D II's sensor and 7D's AF system and price it much lower than the 5D III.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: steliosk on September 07, 2012, 08:17:27 PM
i'd vote for an articulated screen insted of touchscreen which is completly useless!!!!


a better sensor would be nice, but i doubt this new camera will have a better sensor than 5D 3.
a newer AF system is needed though from 5D 2

However reading the specs, this camera has completly no cost in developing something new.

- sensor taken from 5D 3 (best case scenario)
- AF taken from 7D
- touchscreen from 650D (and i really hope its a vari angle too, a vari angle screen in an FF camera is something i'd pay for instantly, doesn't matter the build quality)

canon re-sells parts which already sold and sell.
easy profit for canon, and i suppose it will come after nikons D600 probably seen in photokina this month!!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: tiger82 on September 07, 2012, 08:18:06 PM
Okay, my first reaction is to kick myself for upgrading my 50D to a 5D2.  Then I calm down and realize I have never been an early adopter and that means if this new FF camera is announced, it's availability will be at least 3 months up to a year in the future.  If I wait my usual 6-12 months for the bugs to get ironed out, then it can be anywhere from 9 to 24 months from now.  Meanwhile, I have missed photo ops with a FF camera for that long.  What I need for my next upgrade is to pump up my fps shooting rate for sports.  That upgrade is available now if I can score a used or refurbed 1D4 to replace my 7D. 

I got my refurb 5D2 for $1583 and the best price for a 5D3 is $2799-3199.  The feature upgrade of the 5D3 was not worth $1200-1600.  Snap up the 5D2 while you can get them new or refurb for $1583 (CLP) or $1846 with an authorized dealer while you can.  Waiting means a lot of missed photos.....
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: 7enderbender on September 07, 2012, 08:29:12 PM
If these specs are accurate and if this is priced aggressively, this body would absolutely destroy the resale value of the 5D2.  Of course, I'm assuming that Canon isn't omitting some major feature (like video) that is available in the 5D2.

Maybe, maybe not. To me this translates into "5DII with a plastic body with pretend-iPhone screen" - at which point I would consider my 5DII more valuable to me and I'd be tempted to get a second body while they are still around (when what I really want is a 1DsIII...).

I don't care about an upgraded AF system. The one in the 5DII is good enough for me and I like the quality of body and sensor as is. I haven't seen a reason yet to upgrade to the 5dIII (though it is extremely nice of course) and anything that came with more plastic and consumer grade "features" would be a downgrade. Which makes sense from a marketing strategy. I bet a lot of folks are still buying the MarkII for exactly that reason. If the only choices are something like this "6D" and the Mark III then, yes, people like me would be more interested in the Mark III.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: verysimplejason on September 07, 2012, 09:13:40 PM
I would love a better sensor (DR comparable to sony sensors), articulated screen (instead of touchscreen) and in a 7D body.  I guess I'll sit this out again.  I'll just go for lenses again.    :(
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: DB on September 07, 2012, 09:25:21 PM
Canon Inc. cannot launch an entirely new xD model in 2012 with a 2008 sensor coupled with a 2009 AF plus a gimmicky screen in a plastic body (lower build quality than say a 7D) -> they'd be laughed at, unless it was super-cheap for a FF body, but then why would it have an xD name for that would just devalue the branding at a time when Canon are charging top whack for Pro& Semi-pro gear? ???
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Richard8971 on September 07, 2012, 09:35:30 PM
I have spoken to a few friends who own the 5D3 and while it is a wonderful camera, they are still torn between it and the 5D2. Like most cameras, even though the 5D3 was meant to be a replacement/upgrade to the 5D2, there are still some things the 5D2 does better, or just as well.

If the 6D does come out and it has a lower build quality than the 5D3, I would say stick with the 5D2. They are going to continue to drop in price new and used. I love my 5D2, it takes amazing photos. Honestly, the $3400 for the 5D3 is keeping me from "upgrading". That's way more money than I want to spend considering I have a 21mp FF camera at the ready. It will be interesting to see what Canon considers as a "replacement" for the 5D2. I still believe an affordable FF body is needed and the 5D2 could use some upgrades, but will the upgrades be worth the price if you already have a 5D2???

D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: crasher8 on September 07, 2012, 09:38:24 PM
It's not a mechanical issue on a FF to have a pop up but a user preference. Basically they suck :)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: x-vision on September 07, 2012, 09:45:35 PM
Seriously, does anyone believe in 6D?

Well, yes and no.

The 5DII will go out of production eventually (it's now 4 years old).
When that happens, what is Canon going to do?

Keep offering the 5DIII at $3500 as the only 'affordable' FF option ??? .
Drop the 5DIII price to $2000 - same as the 5DII now?

Both are quite unlikely to happen in the next two years.

So, Canon will have to offer a new $2K FF camera after the 5DII gets discontinued.
They will have no choice, after Nikon announces the D600 next week (for $1800 - my prediction).

The thing is, this entry level FF camera will not be called the 6D and will not be announced this year.
So, this current rumor is of very low quality - even though the specs sound about right.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: 7enderbender on September 07, 2012, 09:47:18 PM
It's not a mechanical issue on a FF to have a pop up but a user preference. Basically they suck :)

+1 - MWAC feature... :o
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: bdunbar79 on September 07, 2012, 10:22:20 PM
I have spoken to a few friends who own the 5D3 and while it is a wonderful camera, they are still torn between it and the 5D2. Like most cameras, even though the 5D3 was meant to be a replacement/upgrade to the 5D2, there are still some things the 5D2 does better, or just as well.

If the 6D does come out and it has a lower build quality than the 5D3, I would say stick with the 5D2. They are going to continue to drop in price new and used. I love my 5D2, it takes amazing photos. Honestly, the $3400 for the 5D3 is keeping me from "upgrading". That's way more money than I want to spend considering I have a 21mp FF camera at the ready. It will be interesting to see what Canon considers as a "replacement" for the 5D2. I still believe an affordable FF body is needed and the 5D2 could use some upgrades, but will the upgrades be worth the price if you already have a 5D2???

D

Not to get off topic, but I owned the 5D Mark II and now have a 5D Mark III.  Excactly what does the 5D2 do better?  I cannot possibly think of ONE thing it does better. 
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on September 07, 2012, 10:38:12 PM

Not to get off topic, but I owned the 5D Mark II and now have a 5D Mark III.  Excactly what does the 5D2 do better?  I cannot possibly think of ONE thing it does better.
I've had both, and I can see the AF points in very low light with the 5D MK II, but not the MK III.  That is a biggie for some, who like to know where they are focusing, otherwise, the 5D MK III is a better camera.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: bdunbar79 on September 07, 2012, 10:49:05 PM

Not to get off topic, but I owned the 5D Mark II and now have a 5D Mark III.  Excactly what does the 5D2 do better?  I cannot possibly think of ONE thing it does better.
I've had both, and I can see the AF points in very low light with the 5D MK II, but not the MK III.  That is a biggie for some, who like to know where they are focusing, otherwise, the 5D MK III is a better camera.

Oh yes, I do remember the red AF points.  You know, I guess I do miss that.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Joseph M on September 07, 2012, 11:02:22 PM
Since it's going to have a lower build quality than the 5D Mark III, I can imagine it as a FF xxD with a magnesium alloy body just like the old 50D. Maybe just a bit more bulked up kinda like how the 5D3 is a bit bigger than the 7D. I would say a FF 7D body but then that would be pretty much the 5D3  ;D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: tiger82 on September 07, 2012, 11:16:57 PM
If it gets announced, I expect it to be named the 5Ds which follows the 1D to 1Ds precedent.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Etienne on September 07, 2012, 11:24:00 PM
I will pre-order this camera if it's better than the 5d mkii and not too much more expensive. If not... I'll just shop around for a used mkii and live with the AF system.

I have thoroughly enjoyed my 5DII. If you are not primarily shooting sports or birds, you won't have a problem with it.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: bbasiaga on September 07, 2012, 11:25:43 PM
odds it'll have decent ISO 12800?  In cam HDR? AFMA?

With the first and last, I'd be in love.  With all 3 I'd be in heaven.

-Brian
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: SiliconVoid on September 07, 2012, 11:41:29 PM
I would love a better sensor (DR comparable to sony sensors), articulated screen (instead of touchscreen) and in a 7D body.  I guess I'll sit this out again.  I'll just go for lenses again.    :(

Please...
The D800 (reputed to be Sony's best sensor to date) only has higher DR at two ISO settings and only at a huge downsample ratio throwing away ~75% of its pixels, and even then that is only if you believe DxO represents the sole source of empirical data.
DPReview shows the base sensor performance of the 5DmkIII has the greater DR range than the 36mp Sony sensor.
Personally I would rather have greater performance in hand and in the field than on paper under an extremely narrow set of parameters...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: tiger82 on September 08, 2012, 12:01:35 AM
come to think of it, 7Ds is a more likely model name.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: SiliconVoid on September 08, 2012, 12:20:56 AM
Except that the 7D is APS-C, and for the exception of the 'professional' 1D series they have never used the same label for cameras of two different sensor sizes.

I would expect a sub 5D model of similar convention.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: x-vision on September 08, 2012, 02:18:04 AM
Except that Canon has never used an even number for their single digit series.
So, 7D-S is not believable but 6D is ???.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: nicku on September 08, 2012, 03:17:07 AM
I highly doubt this rumor, I believe if there will be a 6D entry level FF priced @ 1999 USD then it will the same 5DII body but with the 5DIII sensor, that's it. Maybe a few more bells and whistles but not much improvement than the current 5DII body.

The 7D AF. that is the single reason worth to upgrade from 5D2. The 5D2 AF is the single reason that make me wait to see what canon come up with.

If the price tag will be around $2000 i will definitely buy one.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: pakosouthpark on September 08, 2012, 03:47:01 AM
feck it with the camera name, just reveal the specs already! and for october release please!!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: MaGiL on September 08, 2012, 04:41:54 AM
I don't think we'll see a camera with these specs. I think the 5DIII will replace the current 5DII and a new higher MP 5Dsomething will fill the place of the current 5DIII level.

But if this camera is announced at photokina for a say introduction price tag of eur 2000-2300 it will be the perfect replacement for my 5DII.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: lola on September 08, 2012, 04:57:55 AM
1. It's sad to see that many people are ready to settle for the 5D Mark II sensor, which is around 4 years old...
2. It's a lot more sad to see that not so many people are sick of Canon using the same/similar sensors for all cameras and their 'mix & match' strategy.

I don't know about the numbering myths, such as even & odd numbers in high-end product names but, if the rumored 6D - or whatever - is real, I'm sure even Canon isn't stupid enough to release it with 5D Mark II's sensor, which is totally NOT fine!

If 5d Mark III is really worth $3500, then the D800 is definitely worth more that $3000. So it's pretty clear to me that with lower profit margin, Nikon is trying to win back some market share and in the light of this, I see no reason for the rumored D600 to cost more than $2000. Will/Can Canon position the rumored 6D at around $2000? I doubt that...

If Canon don't radically change their strategies pretty soon, I believe we won't see any products to excite the masses like the 5D Mark II did. It'll always be customers on both sides of the satisfaction line and that will only help Nikon gain market share - which I don't care a bit but Canon should.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: DzPhotography on September 08, 2012, 05:41:32 AM
very curious about this
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: M.ST on September 08, 2012, 05:48:00 AM
I don´t want or need a 6D. Not very interesting for me.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: hippoeater on September 08, 2012, 06:05:57 AM
I don´t want or need a 6D. Not very interesting for me.

Whew! Thanks for responding to this information M.ST - I was at work today and I saw this news come out, the first thing I thought was "man, I wonder if this is something M.ST would be interested in".

Glad you calmed my nerves by answering that burning question that was on my (and I'm sure alot of others) mind.

;)

Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: SpareImp on September 08, 2012, 06:28:45 AM
This looks like a great replacement of the 5D Mark II, as long as it has the same price. To me, it seemed that the 5D2 was one of the most wanted cameras, until February 2012. Some people seem to have forgotten this and dismiss it as old tech. It’s still better than most cameras out there, in terms of IQ, especially combined with proper Canon-glass. As an owner of the 5D2 who mostly shoot landscapes, I don’t feel like I need an immediate update. I can wait a couple of years, but the rumored specs seem ideal for those who are in the market for their first FF.

By the way, if they do release this camera at a reasonable price point, they must release a 7D2 soon as well, right? I mean, the sensor certainly is a step up from the 7D, and if it has the same AF... why would you buy 7D? (To use EF-s? Extra reach? I would rather have FF).
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: studio1972 on September 08, 2012, 07:10:17 AM
I have spoken to a few friends who own the 5D3 and while it is a wonderful camera, they are still torn between it and the 5D2. Like most cameras, even though the 5D3 was meant to be a replacement/upgrade to the 5D2, there are still some things the 5D2 does better, or just as well.

If the 6D does come out and it has a lower build quality than the 5D3, I would say stick with the 5D2. They are going to continue to drop in price new and used. I love my 5D2, it takes amazing photos. Honestly, the $3400 for the 5D3 is keeping me from "upgrading". That's way more money than I want to spend considering I have a 21mp FF camera at the ready. It will be interesting to see what Canon considers as a "replacement" for the 5D2. I still believe an affordable FF body is needed and the 5D2 could use some upgrades, but will the upgrades be worth the price if you already have a 5D2???

D

Not to get off topic, but I owned the 5D Mark II and now have a 5D Mark III.  Excactly what does the 5D2 do better?  I cannot possibly think of ONE thing it does better.

I've heard people say that the 5D2 centre AF point is better than the one on the 5D3, and that the AF works better in low light on the 5D2. Not tried a 5D3 yet myself, so only going on what I heard.

In general, it seems like the new AF system is a lot more complex, and you need to really understand it to get the best results, where as the 5D2 system is pretty straight forward and perfectly capable for wedding photography etc.

Also, the 5D3 sensor is hardly a huge leap forward (in terms of RAW high ISO performance), so there's not a huge benefit in upgrading unless you require the FPS upgrade or the extra AF points.

Let me put it this way, it's a costly upgrade, and as a pro, it can only be justified if it's going to improve my work significantly, which I don't think it will. The new radio flashes seem like a much more useful upgrade TBH.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: meli on September 08, 2012, 07:13:16 AM
Please...
The D800 (reputed to be Sony's best sensor to date) only has higher DR at two ISO settings and only at a huge downsample ratio throwing away ~75% of its pixels, and even then that is only if you believe DxO represents the sole source of empirical data.
DPReview shows the base sensor performance of the 5DmkIII has the greater DR range than the 36mp Sony sensor.
Personally I would rather have greater performance in hand and in the field than on paper under an extremely narrow set of parameters...

lots of missinformation here, rent one and see for yourself, there is just no comparison.

This looks like a great replacement of the 5D Mark II, as long as it has the same price. To me, it seemed that the 5D2 was one of the most wanted cameras, until February 2012. Some people seem to have forgotten this and dismiss it as old tech. It’s still better than most cameras out there, in terms of IQ, especially combined with proper Canon-glass. As an owner of the 5D2 who mostly shoot landscapes, I don’t feel like I need an immediate update. I can wait a couple of years, but the rumored specs seem ideal for those who are in the market for their first FF.

True, i still use my 5d2 and couldnt be happier although its now 50/50 between it and a d800

Actually a lot of people were expecting a 5d2 with a 7d AF and if it comes at a reasonable price it will be attractive.

What really bothers me is 2 things,
First, that suddenly canon seems to be following nikon and this is also notable in the forums; after the d800 there was /is a surge of post about the imaginary new 40+mp d800killer, and after the leaked d600 imgs a flood about the cheap canon.
Second and most worrying, that if canon responds to d600 with a repackaged 5d2 then, apart from 1dx, the whole dslr line of canon will be comprised by a 4yo old 18mp aps-c & a 4yo old 21mp FF sensor*, and this is rather disheartening.

*in my book 5d3's sensor is just an incremental update to 5d2's one and nowhere near what was expected by the leading company after 4years of R&D >:(
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: CanNotYet on September 08, 2012, 07:19:23 AM
I know this is wishful thinking right now, but this camera sounds like Canon could do "a Volkswagen", and just put it together from spare parts in their factories, i.e. cheap to develop, and easy money for Canon.

My wishlist:

FF sensor upscaled from 650d/EOS M (22-24mp?) so we can use STM
AF system from 7D
Body from 60D (yes, plastic/popup flash/articulating screen)
AFMA

I believe this setup would enable price range close to 2k. It would be clearly separated from "PRO" lines. It would also much apply to people like me, that has xxD bodies and wanting to upgrade. Only options today is a 7D or a 5D2 (that does not cost an arm and a leg), both that are several years old by now. This would enable us to buy a brand spanking new camera at an affordable price, that does not DEMAND accessories.

Remember that most "rookies" on FF would like a shallow learning curve, and will probably not buy extra lenses or flashes. At least not to begin with...

Edit: and those of us that upgrade, probably already have extra lenses and flashes...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Wahoowa on September 08, 2012, 08:51:15 AM
Must be a typo there somewhere. It should either read

22mp (Same sensor as 5D3)

or

21mp (Same sensor as 5D2)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: bk-productions on September 08, 2012, 08:51:48 AM
I think Canon is on the right way with a cheaper full-frame camera. I own a 5Dmk3 and it's just awesome. An entry-level full-frame body would be quiet better than the 5Dmk2. Better AF and maybe more than 9 AF-points.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: samirachiko on September 08, 2012, 09:01:40 AM
i'd vote for an articulated screen insted of touchscreen which is completly useless!!!!


a better sensor would be nice, but i doubt this new camera will have a better sensor than 5D 3.
a newer AF system is needed though from 5D 2

However reading the specs, this camera has completly no cost in developing something new.

- sensor taken from 5D 3 (best case scenario)
- AF taken from 7D
- touchscreen from 650D (and i really hope its a vari angle too, a vari angle screen in an FF camera is something i'd pay for instantly, doesn't matter the build quality)

canon re-sells parts which already sold and sell.
easy profit for canon, and i suppose it will come after nikons D600 probably seen in photokina this month!!

totally agree with you! (without touch screen!) ^^
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Denisas Pupka on September 08, 2012, 09:09:55 AM
Before I was thinking, that upgrade to Full Frame will be never achievable for me and was searching upgrade for 550D, but now because of this news I considering FullFrame. Not only because of all Full-Frame advantages, but also because theres many good new lenses, which much better compatible with full-frame.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: birtembuk on September 08, 2012, 09:59:31 AM
Canon Inc. cannot launch an entirely new xD model in 2012 with a 2008 sensor coupled with a 2009 AF plus a gimmicky screen in a plastic body (lower build quality than say a 7D) -> they'd be laughed at, unless it was super-cheap for a FF body, but then why would it have an xD name for that would just devalue the branding at a time when Canon are charging top whack for Pro& Semi-pro gear? ???

Agree! Whatever exciting this CR1 rumor can be, let's wait and see. It might only be for a 70D which, given those specs, could well be next cam of 2012. 
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Chuck Alaimo on September 08, 2012, 10:23:01 AM
I Really hope its a newer sensor than the 5D II.

Nothing wrong with that sensor

It is certainly capable of capturing beautiful images but compared to the state-of-the-art Sony sensors Nikon is using it lags behind, particularly in terms of DR.  In fact, if you look at the capabilities of the sensor in the 5D3—and I write this as a largely satisfied 5D3 owner—Canon appears to have made absolutely no progress in this area of sensor development.

unless your looking for good low light performance.  in most tests, the 5d3 sensor pulls ahead of nikons after ISO 800.  If this new FF can hold its own up to 6400 then it will fit nicely in my bag me thinks...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Chuck Alaimo on September 08, 2012, 10:29:16 AM
If these specs are accurate and if this is priced aggressively, this body would absolutely destroy the resale value of the 5D2.  Of course, I'm assuming that Canon isn't omitting some major feature (like video) that is available in the 5D2.

My bet is that the 5d2 is retired when this comes out.  My bet is also that the delay in announcing/releasing this camera is based mostly on unloading stock of 5d2's..

The big Q's for most will it have things like AFMA?  What will the actual usable ISO be? 

I can live with the less than ideal build quality if it's priced right and can hold its own up to ISO 6400 
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: mystic_theory on September 08, 2012, 10:30:48 AM
Me want 70D!

I'm really tired of the same sensor in the 7D,60D,550D,600D,650D,M,1100D,G1X (resized in the last two). I bet that they are tired also at Canon: so much so that they haven't been doing any research and development for the past two years.  :'(
Title: 5D Jr.
Post by: crasher8 on September 08, 2012, 10:49:12 AM
Is the 5D2 stock really that low? It has to be for a entry FF to grab any market share.

Seems like the consensus is:

New Sensor
AF as good as the 7D or better
AMFA
Price

The jury is still out on:

Body Composition
Pop up Flash
Articulating screen
Dual Cards
ISO

All in all I hope Canon will break the habit of announcing a new body from their old parts bin.


Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: killerBEEcamaro on September 08, 2012, 10:59:24 AM
5d3 sensor or 5d2? I need a new FF camera that doesn't have old technology.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: armando on September 08, 2012, 11:26:34 AM
This is such a weird body to release, where does it fit in? before the 5d mkiii and after the 5d mKii hum ..ok
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: bdunbar79 on September 08, 2012, 11:35:52 AM
That's why I don't really anitcipate an announcement for this soon.  I'm not saying never, but I just feel like it won't be all that soon.  It'd be more likely that the 7D's replacement would come sooner than an entry level FF.  The 5D Mark II, contrary to what people will tell you, when it was released in 2008, it was not considered entry level.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: schmidtfilme on September 08, 2012, 11:48:56 AM
This is such a weird body to release, where does it fit in? before the 5d mkiii and after the 5d mKii hum ..ok

I think it fits in (whatever the name will be ) as an attractive entry FF in direct competition to the soon to be announced Nikon D600 which is rumoured to be at a price point of around $1500. If Canons only answer is the 5 year old 5DMK2 then I am sure they will loose quite some business to Nikon (at least mine) .
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: RC on September 08, 2012, 11:56:13 AM
Just take the same 5D2 body (with updated mode dial and power switch), drop in the 19 pt AF from the 7D, update the firmware for RT flashes, GPS and etc, digic 5+ processor, new higher res LCD.   New or existing 5DII processor is fine if that what it takes to be positioned in the line up.  Price it at $2,000 (+/- a couple) and I'm in.  To me this seems like a cost effective approach for Canon to build--no major retooling. 

No I don't want any gimmicks like the touch or swivel screen.   Basically I want a 5D II with the 7D's AF. 
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Chosenbydestiny on September 08, 2012, 12:12:54 PM
1. It's sad to see that many people are ready to settle for the 5D Mark II sensor, which is around 4 years old...
2. It's a lot more sad to see that not so many people are sick of Canon using the same/similar sensors for all cameras and their 'mix & match' strategy.

I don't know about the numbering myths, such as even & odd numbers in high-end product names but, if the rumored 6D - or whatever - is real, I'm sure even Canon isn't stupid enough to release it with 5D Mark II's sensor, which is totally NOT fine!

If 5d Mark III is really worth $3500, then the D800 is definitely worth more that $3000. So it's pretty clear to me that with lower profit margin, Nikon is trying to win back some market share and in the light of this, I see no reason for the rumored D600 to cost more than $2000. Will/Can Canon position the rumored 6D at around $2000? I doubt that...

If Canon don't radically change their strategies pretty soon, I believe we won't see any products to excite the masses like the 5D Mark II did. It'll always be customers on both sides of the satisfaction line and that will only help Nikon gain market share - which I don't care a bit but Canon should.

It's because everything is becoming way too digital, and way too competitive. They forgot about the people who have been taking photos for decades and now cater to the entry level and amateur crowd because it's more profitable. What people are saying now about the 5D3 sensor not being as comfortable as the 5D2 sensor is the same thing that was said when the 5D2 came out. I personally still prefer the 5D classic sensor, if they remade the 5D classic with simple non-detrimental upgrades like AF and processing speed, to the point where I could buy brand new batteries and accessories for it at the local camera store, I would go and pick one up again. Why? The big photosites are just gorgeous on the 5D classic. And I'm not talking about zoomed in pixel peeped, but printed photos look very true to life. Canon has been too caught up with technology, because the average person demands better ISO performance and megapixels thanks to sites like this and how the market compares cameras. Of course, when new stuff arises, we find things that we thought we could live without previously. People are out there cropping the hell out of their photos thanks to technology. They're shooting in situations that were once unheard of. It's a walk in the park now to shoot modern cameras. And then they complain. Imagine how people are going to sound 10 years from now. Our behaviors are being shaped by major corporations and whenever we whine about something they sacrifice something else just so we could shut up. The bottom line is, if you don't like it just don't buy it. If you feel like you don't have a choice, then swallow your pride and get on with it because we are in for some deep kimchi in the long run at the rate these sensors are changing. Technology is supposed to improve but it's been downhill in the ISO 100-800 range (because of shrinking photo sites due to high megapixel demand) since the 5D classic in my honest opinion and I'm very much sure at the least, 9/10 of us shoot in that range 9/10 times. Think about it.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Chosenbydestiny on September 08, 2012, 12:24:05 PM
Just take the same 5D2 body (with updated mode dial and power switch), drop in the 19 pt AF from the 7D, update the firmware for RT flashes, GPS and etc, digic 5+ processor, new higher res LCD.   New or existing 5DII processor is fine if that what it takes to be positioned in the line up.  Price it at $2,000 (+/- a couple) and I'm in.  To me this seems like a cost effective approach for Canon to build--no major retooling. 

No I don't want any gimmicks like the touch or swivel screen.   Basically I want a 5D II with the 7D's AF.

I'll accept the touch screen as a gimmick, as of now. But the swivel is invaluable in some situations where an angle can't be met with your face to the camera. Obviously, videographers with small setups have a huge advantage due to the swivel screen. I mean, why buy a bigger screen that you still have to connect with a cable when you can get one for free AND built-in to the camera? Appeal is relative I suppose, but Canon isn't going to make a camera for just one person to use.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on September 08, 2012, 12:26:42 PM
Basically I want a 5D II with the 7D's AF.

It's called 5d3, well, ok it has 1dx's af but this is just for economical reasons to produce the af unit in quantities, with a 7d-af type it wouldn't be any cheaper. The 5d3 really is the camera people asked for, the problem is that they should have sold it at $2500 and not $3500.

announced Nikon D600 which is rumoured to be at a price point of around $1500.

I don't think so - a really usable Nikon ff that is able to compete with pro bodies like the older d700 will be around $2000, too. But Nikon marketing sure has a great time scaring Canon :-)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: RC on September 08, 2012, 12:48:48 PM
Basically I want a 5D II with the 7D's AF.

It's called 5d3, well, ok it has 1dx's af but this is just for economical reasons to produce the af unit in quantities, with a 7d-af type it wouldn't be any cheaper. The 5d3 really is the camera people asked for, the problem is that they should have sold it at $2500 and not $3500.

Yip and I would love a 5D3.   Having a real tuff time with the price like so many others. I feel there will be a segment of the market ignored if this new FF is spec'd and marketed more towards the consumer crowd. 

Hopefully we will know a lot more soon. 
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on September 08, 2012, 12:56:23 PM
Hopefully we will know a lot more soon.

Same with me and the 5d3 price tag - and we'll both know sooner or later how much suffering and saving money it takes to buy it anyway eventually after the "entry-level ff" specs show that it's a consumer-oriented camera with lots of features cut.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Bruce Photography on September 08, 2012, 01:18:46 PM
Flip flash like xxD and 7D?  Or does this FF prevent flip flash like others?  :(

No, pop up flashes do work just fine for commander mode and fill flash - just use the D800 for a few minutes and you'll see how.  However if you are a tilt shift user, the flash has caused quite a bit of confusion among D800 users.  Because it hangs out so far, it does inhibit the shift knobs (unless you have the factory refurb to put tilt and shift in the same plane) and shift up movement.  Some control like Nikon does is way better than no control of remote flashes like Canon (with using a flash in the shoe or a flash commander in the shoe).

Just FYI.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on September 08, 2012, 01:56:25 PM
Flip flash like xxD and 7D?  Or does this FF prevent flip flash like others?  :(
No, pop up flashes do work just fine for commander mode and fill flash

Often the pop-up flash is even better than a full flash on hotshoe because the optical axis is nearer the lens axis and unless you produce red eyes the drop shadow is smaller.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: 7enderbender on September 08, 2012, 03:37:30 PM
1. It's sad to see that many people are ready to settle for the 5D Mark II sensor, which is around 4 years old...
2. It's a lot more sad to see that not so many people are sick of Canon using the same/similar sensors for all cameras and their 'mix & match' strategy.

I don't know about the numbering myths, such as even & odd numbers in high-end product names but, if the rumored 6D - or whatever - is real, I'm sure even Canon isn't stupid enough to release it with 5D Mark II's sensor, which is totally NOT fine!

If 5d Mark III is really worth $3500, then the D800 is definitely worth more that $3000. So it's pretty clear to me that with lower profit margin, Nikon is trying to win back some market share and in the light of this, I see no reason for the rumored D600 to cost more than $2000. Will/Can Canon position the rumored 6D at around $2000? I doubt that...

If Canon don't radically change their strategies pretty soon, I believe we won't see any products to excite the masses like the 5D Mark II did. It'll always be customers on both sides of the satisfaction line and that will only help Nikon gain market share - which I don't care a bit but Canon should.


I don't get it. So it makes you "sad" that people like me are quite content with their 5DII. But also makes you "sad" that some people want something different. So what is it now?

And here's the thing. The "old" sensor is still professional grade and delivers. Sure, we all want to see improvements at some point, but we are reaching a point where (thank heavens!) the digital market is maturing a bit. Consumers are more than happy. Prosumers should be happy. Pros use whatever is available anyway and make it work. Maybe we're coming back to a point where 4-year old camera isn't considered ancient. Which would increase perhaps the demand for better build quality instead of esoteric megapixel and technology terms and adding useless features.

Sure, I also get that the two big and few small camera manufacturers are in the camera selling business. Like they have been over the last several decades. Business models shift and they've done a pretty good job with survival (other not so much) and actually turning a profit with proactive marketing and development strategies.

Let's cut them some slack here. We should all be grateful that especially Canon is still keeping up a business model that makes money by selling to consumers and P&S moms & dads - while maintaining a full and extensive pro line that isn't really much of a moneymaker but really just there to carry the image of the brand = with a few lucky exception like the 5DII for example that sold to pros and consumers alike. Why not milk that a bit more by shifting that technology out to people who so far couldn't or wouldn't afford it? I know quite a few people who would be more than happy to have a 5DII sensor in their cameras. We all have out preferences and I could easily dream up my preferred DSLR - which other than me maybe 5 people in the world would be interested in (think FD manual lens F1n style body with a 5D-type sensor...).

In real life and in the hands of a good photographer I challenge you to tell if an image was shot with a 5DII, 5DIII, 1DsIII, 1DX or 800E.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: candyman on September 08, 2012, 03:43:09 PM
1. It's sad to see that many people are ready to settle for the 5D Mark II sensor, which is around 4 years old...
2. It's a lot more sad to see that not so many people are sick of Canon using the same/similar sensors for all cameras and their 'mix & match' strategy.

I don't know about the numbering myths, such as even & odd numbers in high-end product names but, if the rumored 6D - or whatever - is real, I'm sure even Canon isn't stupid enough to release it with 5D Mark II's sensor, which is totally NOT fine!

If 5d Mark III is really worth $3500, then the D800 is definitely worth more that $3000. So it's pretty clear to me that with lower profit margin, Nikon is trying to win back some market share and in the light of this, I see no reason for the rumored D600 to cost more than $2000. Will/Can Canon position the rumored 6D at around $2000? I doubt that...

If Canon don't radically change their strategies pretty soon, I believe we won't see any products to excite the masses like the 5D Mark II did. It'll always be customers on both sides of the satisfaction line and that will only help Nikon gain market share - which I don't care a bit but Canon should.


I don't get it. So it makes you "sad" that people like me are quite content with their 5DII. But also makes you "sad" that some people want something different. So what is it now?

And here's the thing. The "old" sensor is still professional grade and delivers. Sure, we all want to see improvements at some point, but we are reaching a point where (thank heavens!) the digital market is maturing a bit. Consumers are more than happy. Prosumers should be happy. Pros use whatever is available anyway and make it work. Maybe we're coming back to a point where 4-year old camera isn't considered ancient. Which would increase perhaps the demand for better build quality instead of esoteric megapixel and technology terms and adding useless features.

Sure, I also get that the two big and few small camera manufacturers are in the camera selling business. Like they have been over the last several decades. Business models shift and they've done a pretty good job with survival (other not so much) and actually turning a profit with proactive marketing and development strategies.

Let's cut them some slack here. We should all be grateful that especially Canon is still keeping up a business model that makes money by selling to consumers and P&S moms & dads - while maintaining a full and extensive pro line that isn't really much of a moneymaker but really just there to carry the image of the brand = with a few lucky exception like the 5DII for example that sold to pros and consumers alike. Why not milk that a bit more by shifting that technology out to people who so far couldn't or wouldn't afford it? I know quite a few people who would be more than happy to have a 5DII sensor in their cameras. We all have out preferences and I could easily dream up my preferred DSLR - which other than me maybe 5 people in the world would be interested in (think FD manual lens F1n style body with a 5D-type sensor...).

In real life and in the hands of a good photographer I challenge you to tell if an image was shot with a 5DII, 5DIII, 1DsIII, 1DX or 800E.


*LIKE for this post
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Tayvin on September 08, 2012, 04:57:28 PM
So it's a 5D II with a 7D AF system and my large nose is going to be hitting the touchscreen all the time?  I don't believe this rumor.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: crasher8 on September 08, 2012, 05:04:40 PM
If it has a touchscreen it must have a proximity sensor to deactivate it ala the iPhone.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: EvillEmperor on September 08, 2012, 05:34:04 PM
I really dont understand this. The 5d MK IIs only disadvantage is the AF and drive speed, they both work hand in hand. You can get a 5D MK III for $3000 if you look around carefully.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: mitch.o on September 09, 2012, 12:06:59 AM
I don´t want or need a 6D. Not very interesting for me.
Says the guy with every canon body on the market. What about for us that just have an old t2i and want to break into the ff game?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: verysimplejason on September 09, 2012, 12:49:37 AM
I don´t want or need a 6D. Not very interesting for me.
Says the guy with every canon body on the market. What about for us that just have an old t2i and want to break into the ff game?

+1.  Not everybody can afford the current Canon FF.  Not everybody is also a professional photographer who can spend more because it's his livelihood.  I'm still an amateur photographer.  If someone can sponsor me then it's ok but if not, I really hope they can lower the cost of producing one.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: lola on September 09, 2012, 02:45:58 AM
1. It's sad to see that many people are ready to settle for the 5D Mark II sensor, which is around 4 years old...
2. It's a lot more sad to see that not so many people are sick of Canon using the same/similar sensors for all cameras and their 'mix & match' strategy.

I don't know about the numbering myths, such as even & odd numbers in high-end product names but, if the rumored 6D - or whatever - is real, I'm sure even Canon isn't stupid enough to release it with 5D Mark II's sensor, which is totally NOT fine!

If 5d Mark III is really worth $3500, then the D800 is definitely worth more that $3000. So it's pretty clear to me that with lower profit margin, Nikon is trying to win back some market share and in the light of this, I see no reason for the rumored D600 to cost more than $2000. Will/Can Canon position the rumored 6D at around $2000? I doubt that...

If Canon don't radically change their strategies pretty soon, I believe we won't see any products to excite the masses like the 5D Mark II did. It'll always be customers on both sides of the satisfaction line and that will only help Nikon gain market share - which I don't care a bit but Canon should.


I don't get it. So it makes you "sad" that people like me are quite content with their 5DII. But also makes you "sad" that some people want something different. So what is it now?

And here's the thing. The "old" sensor is still professional grade and delivers. Sure, we all want to see improvements at some point, but we are reaching a point where (thank heavens!) the digital market is maturing a bit. Consumers are more than happy. Prosumers should be happy. Pros use whatever is available anyway and make it work. Maybe we're coming back to a point where 4-year old camera isn't considered ancient. Which would increase perhaps the demand for better build quality instead of esoteric megapixel and technology terms and adding useless features.

Sure, I also get that the two big and few small camera manufacturers are in the camera selling business. Like they have been over the last several decades. Business models shift and they've done a pretty good job with survival (other not so much) and actually turning a profit with proactive marketing and development strategies.

Let's cut them some slack here. We should all be grateful that especially Canon is still keeping up a business model that makes money by selling to consumers and P&S moms & dads - while maintaining a full and extensive pro line that isn't really much of a moneymaker but really just there to carry the image of the brand = with a few lucky exception like the 5DII for example that sold to pros and consumers alike. Why not milk that a bit more by shifting that technology out to people who so far couldn't or wouldn't afford it? I know quite a few people who would be more than happy to have a 5DII sensor in their cameras. We all have out preferences and I could easily dream up my preferred DSLR - which other than me maybe 5 people in the world would be interested in (think FD manual lens F1n style body with a 5D-type sensor...).

In real life and in the hands of a good photographer I challenge you to tell if an image was shot with a 5DII, 5DIII, 1DsIII, 1DX or 800E.

Maybe you should go back and read my post again, and of course the previous posts.

1. I'm not sad that people are content with their 5D Mark II's. Read again!
2. How'd you come up with the part the people wanting something different makes me sad?

One couldn't get my post more wrong! I wonder how you managed that...

It's very funny that you suggest, we should be "grateful" to a corporate company, cut them some slack and stuff like that. Are you a baseball coach or something?

I'm paying a premium for a Canon or Nikon product and I should be grateful? WTF???

And oh yeah, I can very well tell if an image was shot with a 5DII, 1DsIII, or 800E. I don't expect you to do it, because you think 5DII's sensor is still professional grade and you are grateful for it!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: scokar on September 09, 2012, 03:41:40 AM

[...]
And here's the thing. The "old" sensor is still professional grade and delivers.
[...]

The "old" sensor is fine if no one else worked on sensor technology in the past 3+ years.
Seeing as they have,  I would like my current vendor of choice to also strive to improve their offerings.


Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: lola on September 09, 2012, 04:14:07 AM

[...]
And here's the thing. The "old" sensor is still professional grade and delivers.
[...]

The "old" sensor is fine if no one else worked on sensor technology in the past 3+ years.
Seeing as they have,  I would like my current vendor of choice to also strive to improve their offerings.

EXACTLY!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: mathino on September 09, 2012, 04:29:10 AM
Quote

Maybe you should go back and read my post again, and of course the previous posts.

1. I'm not sad that people are content with their 5D Mark II's. Read again!
2. How'd you come up with the part the people wanting something different makes me sad?

One couldn't get my post more wrong! I wonder how you managed that...

It's very funny that you suggest, we should be "grateful" to a corporate company, cut them some slack and stuff like that. Are you a baseball coach or something?

I'm paying a premium for a Canon or Nikon product and I should be grateful? WTF???

And oh yeah, I can very well tell if an image was shot with a 5DII, 1DsIII, or 800E. I don't expect you to do it, because you think 5DII's sensor is still professional grade and you are grateful for it!

I see your point. We should get better stuff in new body. I think that info about 5D Mk II sensor was just a typo. It would be a "little bit" unwise decision to re-use 4 years old tech. My bet would be for 5D Mk III/1D-X/new 20 MPx sensor paired with single Digic 5/5+. New sensor mentioned @ http://photorumors.com/2012/09/08/canon-rumored-to-announce-a-nikon-d600-competitor-at-photokina/  (http://photorumors.com/2012/09/08/canon-rumored-to-announce-a-nikon-d600-competitor-at-photokina/). With one of those sensors, 7D AF and metring, build quality as 7D I can see 6D as a well selling product. Maybe the new sensor would get "upgrade" for auto AF in video (STM lenses)...

I wont expect more pro features, like 61 point AF or so. Keep in mind that it should be entry level. You should not expect too much. If someone wants all-around camera - there is 5D Mk III. Maybe Canon decides to compete with lower price...we need to wait a little longer...

...and if you want quality of D800/E sensor then buy one  ;) Maybe Canon high MPx body will be alike but I doubt that it would be in the same price range. And also high MPx body is just a rumor, it may be announced this year,  may be next year...only Canon knows. Ive seen info that they are waiting for initial sales demand for 5D Mk III and 1D-X to be achieved...my bet would be some time next summer with 4K price tag.

Little off topic:

Well, Ive been thinking about 40 f/2.8 STM. Why produce FF lens with STM when you dont have FF sensor that supports new combined AF for video ? Look a little bit weird to me...unless you have new sensor/body in testing before production. Just my thoughts...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: mathino on September 09, 2012, 05:01:02 AM

[...]
And here's the thing. The "old" sensor is still professional grade and delivers.
[...]

The "old" sensor is fine if no one else worked on sensor technology in the past 3+ years.
Seeing as they have,  I would like my current vendor of choice to also strive to improve their offerings.

EXACTLY!

Well, I dont want to start 5D Mk III vs D800 flame war again. But what holds you back if you WANT D800 ?

Sure, D800 sensor is great, DR is very good but it is a very demanding tech. You need to get very good lenses to "feed" such MPx sensor. And to process huge RAWs you need good PC and enough storage....but thats different story. And when you buy D800 you know all pros/cons.

...yes, Canon should imrpove sensor tech. But I see a weak point only in lower ISOs compared to D800. For me (and I know Im not alone around here) is more important to have better high ISO output - I want to shoot with available light. In this area current Canon FF cameras are really good.

Ive noticed some info that 6D could have entirely new 20 MPx sensor. Maybe first FF to support hybrid AF for video ? Maybe better DR ?

...all in all, we should wait and judge after some reviews are made. And DxO score are just numbers...but its your decision to you choose/judge/buy by that...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: mathino on September 09, 2012, 06:04:07 AM
If you take different parts of old people and stitch them together, do you get a young person?

So, I guess that Canon is planning to put out a "new" product which is simply a Frankenstein of outdated products.

No you wont get young person :-D

...hmm, according to you, 550D should have different AF then 500D, 600D should have new sensor and new AF (because it is new generation of camera, doesnt matter that life cycle is +- one year), 60 D with new AF and different sensor too. Of course they reuse parts. They reuse them to make stuff cheaper. What do you think how many would Rebel cost if every next gen would get entirely new sensor, AF etc ? R&D costs of new sensor are big. And its not all about sensor, processors counts too...

Do you expect 6D to have all specs as 5D Mk III ? Under 2000USD ? Well, it will also be reusing parts...

Ive used both 7D and 5D Mk II and I can say that 7D AF is very capable (if you know how to use it). I had a chance to take couple of pictures using 5D Mk III - I was amazed by high ISO capabilities. 6D can do great as a product with 5D Mk III/1D-X/new sensor, 7D AF and 7D metring, 7D build, Digic 5/5+. I would buy one. An Im sure I wont be the only one...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: lola on September 09, 2012, 06:29:06 AM
If you take different parts of old people and stitch them together, do you get a young person?

So, I guess that Canon is planning to put out a "new" product which is simply a Frankenstein of outdated products.

I couldn't have given a better example. Well done!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on September 09, 2012, 06:50:17 AM
feck it with the camera name, just reveal the specs already! and for october release please!!

I don't care when they reveal the specs, but when they *deliver* the camera - think of the 24-70ii - and Canon might be very well inclined to market specs before the camera is ready to counter the Nikon d600 at least on paper. That's because every day a 6d isn't there people will buy a 5d3 because they think the 5d2 is too old and they bite the bullet and go for the current 5d model.

Well, I dont want to start 5D Mk III vs D800 flame war again.

Keep your breath for the upcoming 6d vs d600 flame war - $2000 touch flip screen plastic crippled amateurish camera vs $1500 semipro body ... or maybe canon has learned something from the 5d3 marketing disaster? Let's hope so.

And its not all about sensor, processors counts too...

... but most of all, the whole package counts and not just the core tech specs you find on a data sheet. If the usability is amateurish like xxxd and the firmware is crippled w/ with most customization options gone the camera is positioned in another market segment. Think of the "metering linked to af point" that is on the 1dx, but not on the 5d3 - surely just for marketing purposes since the af unit is the same.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: mathino on September 09, 2012, 07:45:06 AM
Quote
I don't care when they reveal the specs, but when they *deliver* the camera - think of the 24-70ii - and Canon might be very well inclined to market specs before the camera is ready to counter the Nikon d600 at least on paper. That's because every day a 6d isn't there people will buy a 5d3 because they think the 5d2 is too old and they bite the bullet and go for the current 5d model.

I totally agree with you. Announcement is something, well, purely informational - availability is something completly different (see 1D-X and 24-70 II as an example). As Ive stated before Ive seen info that they are waiting for initial sales demand for 5D Mk III and 1D-X to be achieved...before high MPx body could be announced.

Quote
Keep your breath for the upcoming 6d vs d600 flame war - $2000 touch flip screen plastic crippled amateurish camera vs $1500 semipro body ... or maybe canon has learned something from the 5d3 marketing disaster? Let's hope so.

Im not the flame war person, Im actualy more "try and compare" preson. Specs are fine, ehm, but not everything. I hope that Canon learned this lesson with 5D Mk III pricing and hope for competitive 6D.

Quote
And its not all about sensor, processors counts too...
Quote
... but most of all, the whole package counts and not just the core tech specs you find on a data sheet. If the usability is amateurish like xxxd and the firmware is crippled w/ with most customization options gone the camera is positioned in another market segment. Think of the "metering linked to af point" that is on the 1dx, but not on the 5d3 - surely just for marketing purposes since the af unit is the same.

I know that whole package counts. But you know, most of users looks for the sensor first and think that only sensor makes the camera. Of course that processors, firmware and other stuff counts too. Firmware can really cripple down camera. There is a reason for pro line, semi-pro and amateur line. And technologies comes to "less pro" products over time.

My ideal package for 6D would be: 5D Mk III/1D-X/new sensor, 7D AF and 7D metring, 7D build, Digic 5/5+, 3.5-4.5 fps, AFMA.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on September 09, 2012, 08:01:14 AM
My ideal package for 6D would be: 5D Mk III/1D-X/new sensor, 7D AF and 7D metring, 7D build, Digic 5/5+, 3.5-4.5 fps, AFMA.

... and of course there's planned obsolescence even with high-priced products as digital camera bodies and lenses (24-70 IS anyone?) :-(

If Canon would release the one you described it not artificially limit it by firmware it would be a sales hit and saturate the dslr market for years to come. That's fine for the next quarterly sales figures, but produces a mid-term problem if Canon tries to market the next successor - they have this problem w/ the 5d2 which is just too good and feature-complete to make the 5d3 @$3500 competitive. Imho that's why they didn't put a better sensor in the 5d3 btw, this time they upgrade the body specs (fps, af), next time it's the sensor again like 5dc->5d2.

And Canon's strategy seems to be to make money from selling camera bodies, the alternative of selling cheaper bodies and then hope for L lens sales is tricky because of the good 3rd party manufacturers.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: mathino on September 09, 2012, 08:23:54 AM

... and of course there's planned obsolescence even with high-priced products as digital camera bodies and lenses (24-70 IS anyone?) :-(

If Canon would release the one you described it not artificially limit it by firmware it would be a sales hit and saturate the dslr market for years to come. That's fine for the next quarterly sales figures, but produces a mid-term problem if Canon tries to market the next successor - they have this problem w/ the 5d2 which is just too good and feature-complete to make the 5d3 @$3500 competitive. Imho that's why they didn't put a better sensor in the 5d3 btw, this time they upgrade the body specs (fps, af), next time it's the sensor again like 5dc->5d2.

And Canon's strategy seems to be to make money from selling camera bodies, the alternative of selling cheaper bodies and then hope for L lens sales is tricky because of the good 3rd party manufacturers.

I know that probability of my "dream list" to come true is very low. But lets dream for a while  ;)

...such body would be a true successor to 5D Mk II and, as you mentioned, it would sell well for next 3 years (as 5D Mk II sells). Yes, in that case, there would be a problem with successor. 5D Mk II is still a great body with good price/preformance ratio. Not many people are willing to splash 1.5 K more on better AF and couple of features.

And I agree with you, they upgraded specs (fps, processor, AF) and they could put better sensor in Mk IV. Sounds logically ;)

...well, Im not a Canon fanboy, but when I purchase FF body - I would want L-series lenses for it. Maybe except of some macros and 50 made by Sigma and new TS-E by Samyang. "Good" strategy would be to procude capable (feature balanced) FF body to force users to upgrade/look for L lenses...


...so, lets wait and see :) Ehm, and what do you think about 40 f/2.8 STM ? Why they delireved such lens (for FF) with (currently) no FF that supports new phase detection AF ? Do you think that this new body could have sensor tech for it ?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on September 09, 2012, 09:01:34 AM
Ehm, and what do you think about 40 f/2.8 STM ? Why they delireved such lens (for FF) with (currently) no FF that supports new phase detection AF ? Do you think that this new body could have sensor tech for it ?

I'm sure all upcoming canon camera will have phase detection pixels, there's no drawback afaik and it helps the crappy contrast af. I think that might be the reason for Canon to delay any new cameras (70d, 6d): The 650d sensor surely was just the first issue with the old 18mp version as a base - they'll learn from the performance and adapt future sensors accordingly. And maybe the time since the 650d release is just too short to engineer a new sensor generation, ff or crop - or is it?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: zim on September 09, 2012, 09:11:22 AM
IF this FF camera actually exists I don’t believe it will be using old tech it’s either going to be a seriously crippled 5D3 without AFMA or an up scaled 650D with the 5D3 sensor. I would imagine that the first option would be much easier to engineer but the second preferred by sales/marketing. I think we all know who usually wins the decisions between those departments.

If Canon see the future as all cameras having phase detection pixels then wouldn’t they have started to develop the FF sensor at the same time as the crop? So it may well be ready to be market tested in a lower grade body.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: mathino on September 09, 2012, 09:33:03 AM
I'm sure all upcoming canon camera will have phase detection pixels, there's no drawback afaik and it helps the crappy contrast af. I think that might be the reason for Canon to delay any new cameras (70d, 6d): The 650d sensor surely was just the first issue with the old 18mp version as a base - they'll learn from the performance and adapt future sensors accordingly. And maybe the time since the 650d release is just too short to engineer a new sensor generation, ff or crop - or is it?

...this is what I think. All future sensors will have phase detection pixels, 650D looks to me like a "test" body to test this AF and develop it further. I think there is a reason they put it in amateur body at first. They need time to adjust/develop it correctly to move it to higher lines. Maybe FF one was in the development with 650D one...there was some info about new 20 MPx FF sensor (it could has those pixels).

Well, Im curious about 6D, how it will fit in and what it will have and what wont. IF 6D will be announced and wont meet my needs then I would go for 5D Mk II or...wait a year and spare some cash and get Mk III...hmmm...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on September 09, 2012, 09:36:59 AM
If Canon see the future as all cameras having phase detection pixels then wouldn’t they have started to develop the FF sensor at the same time as the crop? So it may well be ready to be market tested in a lower grade body.

Question is if Canon thinks their phase detection tech is the production-ready version (then they'd have developed a new ff sensor at the same time as crop) or if it the one on the 650d was only the first beta to be tested in a short-lived xxxd body and they plan to optimize or re-design the tech with these experiences (in this case it's doubtful they'll have a ff version ready in 2 weeks).
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: tiger82 on September 09, 2012, 09:38:24 AM
What would sell?  IMO, Take the 7D body and slap a FF sensor in it and either stay with the Dual Digic 4 or use the 5 or 5+ while keeping everything else the same.  Call it the 7Ds (just like the 1Ds is the FF version of the 1D) and slap a $500 premium for the FF which will put it smack in the $1500-2000 vacant price point between the 7D and the 5D3 where the 5D2 is going extinct.  I think people would buy a FF body capable of 6-8fps.  Forget new vs old technology, what product is missing from their lines?  A poor man's 1Dx.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: mathino on September 09, 2012, 09:55:08 AM
What would sell?  IMO, Take the 7D body and slap a FF sensor in it and either stay with the Dual Digic 4 or use the 5 or 5+ while keeping everything else the same.  Call it the 7Ds (just like the 1Ds is the FF version of the 1D) and slap a $500 premium for the FF which will put it smack in the $1500-2000 vacant price point between the 7D and the 5D3 where the 5D2 is going extinct.  I think people would buy a FF body capable of 6-8fps.  Forget new vs old technology, what product is missing from their lines?  A poor man's 1Dx.

...in that case, what would the purpose of 5D Mk III be ? I dont see Canon just slaping FF sensor in 7D. It would cut away sales of 5D Mk III. My bet is that 6D would be a bit better 5D Mk II (with same fps and better, still worse than Mk III, AF). No way it would do more then 4.5-5 fps. 6D will be firmware crippled.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: tiger82 on September 09, 2012, 10:28:09 AM
Quote
...in that case, what would the purpose of 5D Mk III be ? I dont see Canon just slaping FF sensor in 7D. It would cut away sales of 5D Mk III. My bet is that 6D would be a bit better 5D Mk II (with same fps and better, still worse than Mk III, AF). No way it would do more then 4.5-5 fps. 6D will be firmware crippled.

5D3 would still have superior IQ and ISO performance for those who want it.  My thought on a 7Ds would be for us sports enthusiasts/shooters who would like to shoot the occasional landscape or want to be creative once in a while.  Right now, I have a 5D2 and a 7D.  Both are acceptable backups for each other but I lose fps and length going to the 5D2 and I lose IQ and composition flexibility going to the 7D.  A FF version of the 7D would make a superb backup for someone with a 5D3, 7D, 1D4, or a 1Dx.  It would also be an excellent all around entry level FF camera.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on September 09, 2012, 10:33:16 AM
5D3 would still have superior IQ and ISO performance for those who want it.

That's just the point: It doesn't, at least not to the extent that people would buy the 5d3 over a 5d2 or entry level ff. Sure it has reduced banding, a nicer noise pattern and is better than the 5d2 when raising iso above 3200, but if people buy the 5d3 for this price at all than it's because it's in a package with higher fps and better af.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: tiger82 on September 09, 2012, 10:48:52 AM
I'm think opening up the FF market for non professional sports enthusiasts is a good idea.  As long as you don't cannibalize too much of the market, it should work.  I didn't want to go the 5D3 route because I didn't want to pay the premium for the capabilities I don't need.  I went to the 5D2 and sent my 50D packing because I wanted to go FF at the expense of giving up my sports backup.  A 7D with a FF sensor would appeal to me and Canon would still be able to offer a 5D3 as an upgrade path.  An incremental improvement to FF for the 7D would be the best move.  A new entry level FF with 5D3 class AF, sensor, and Digic 5+ doesn't make sense. Canon might as well build a camera between the 5D3 and 1Dx with 30+ mp and make the 5D3 the entry level FF
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: mathino on September 09, 2012, 01:44:41 PM
...Right now, I have a 5D2 and a 7D...

...funny is, that this is what Canon wants - us having 2 bodies (damn, they even share the same batteries...). Canon force you to buy 2 bodies. But if you want one body that can do everything - you should get 1D-X.

As a camera manufacturer I wont see one single reason to build "baby 1D-X" or "7Ds". I would rather upgrade 7D with new APS-C sensor + give it 10-12 fps then making 7D FF with 8 fps. With FF-7D-8 fps body they would shoot themselves in the knee (at least from 5D Mk III point of view).

I think that it is more probable that 7D successor would have 10-12 fps and 61 point AF then 7D FF with 8 fps.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: tiger82 on September 09, 2012, 01:50:33 PM
7D successor with 10-12 fps and 61 pt AF would eat into 1Dx sales even at a $4k price point.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: kdsand on September 09, 2012, 02:45:09 PM
That's why I don't really anitcipate an announcement for this soon.  I'm not saying never, but I just feel like it won't be all that soon.  It'd be more likely that the 7D's replacement would come sooner than an entry level FF.  The 5D Mark II, contrary to what people will tell you, when it was released in 2008, it was not considered entry level.

I concur. The 7D fills an important slot in canons line up.
Its a great tool for consumers & pros alike and has  given the rebel line  trickle down tech for several years  but after the 60D & the t4i there is a real need for a new 7D(?). Heck don't fix what ain't broke just update the sucker. Improve & update the sensor, improve ISO and put in the new processors which should help with a lot of functions.

Some joker on another site was going on about the 7D being a fail for canon. I think its the opposite - it has given canon a lot of momentum but is starting to lag now. It needs a spruce up - please no bells or whistles though.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: unfocused on September 09, 2012, 03:51:13 PM
I still see Canon's path as pretty obvious and easy.

6D & 70D = Same basic feature sets and construction, one full frame and one APS-C, improved autofocus (to 7D level), slower frame rate than higher end models. High ISO performance better but not as good as next level up.

7DII & 5DIII = Same basic feature sets and construction, one full frame and one APS-C. 7D gets an autofocus similar to 5DIII. Faster frame rate in 7D due to smaller file sizes. High ISO performance improved in 7D but still below full frame 5DIII.

5D HD = High resolution version of 5DIII with apprx. 46 megapixel sensor. Slower frame rate and much more limited at high ISOs. Basically the same camera as the 5D and same pricing, but with a high resolution sensor installed.

Nicely fills out the line, giving consumers and pros more choices and helps transition buyer to two bodies each. I'm guessing we will see the 6D first. The 70D, 7DII and 5D HD may not come until 2013.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on September 09, 2012, 04:14:43 PM
I still see Canon's path as pretty obvious and easy.

I'm bookmarking this so I can quote you in 2013 :-)

Nicely fills out the line, giving consumers and pros more choices and helps transition buyer to two bodies each.

But why would Canon want to split the former two bodies (40d/5d) into *five* different ones (70d/7d2/6d/5d3/5dhd)? Sure this gives people more choices, but Canon is about making money and this variety also creates confusion and more support and manufacturing costs.

Imho if they expand the ff line they'll drop one of the crop cameras, i.e. no 7d2 but a bumped up 70d. And your "5d hd" might be very well an expensive "1d hd" at first because the people really wanting a $3000 36mp sensor have switched to Nikon by now.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: 7enderbender on September 09, 2012, 06:19:47 PM
1. It's sad to see that many people are ready to settle for the 5D Mark II sensor, which is around 4 years old...
2. It's a lot more sad to see that not so many people are sick of Canon using the same/similar sensors for all cameras and their 'mix & match' strategy.

I don't know about the numbering myths, such as even & odd numbers in high-end product names but, if the rumored 6D - or whatever - is real, I'm sure even Canon isn't stupid enough to release it with 5D Mark II's sensor, which is totally NOT fine!

If 5d Mark III is really worth $3500, then the D800 is definitely worth more that $3000. So it's pretty clear to me that with lower profit margin, Nikon is trying to win back some market share and in the light of this, I see no reason for the rumored D600 to cost more than $2000. Will/Can Canon position the rumored 6D at around $2000? I doubt that...

If Canon don't radically change their strategies pretty soon, I believe we won't see any products to excite the masses like the 5D Mark II did. It'll always be customers on both sides of the satisfaction line and that will only help Nikon gain market share - which I don't care a bit but Canon should.


I don't get it. So it makes you "sad" that people like me are quite content with their 5DII. But also makes you "sad" that some people want something different. So what is it now?

And here's the thing. The "old" sensor is still professional grade and delivers. Sure, we all want to see improvements at some point, but we are reaching a point where (thank heavens!) the digital market is maturing a bit. Consumers are more than happy. Prosumers should be happy. Pros use whatever is available anyway and make it work. Maybe we're coming back to a point where 4-year old camera isn't considered ancient. Which would increase perhaps the demand for better build quality instead of esoteric megapixel and technology terms and adding useless features.

Sure, I also get that the two big and few small camera manufacturers are in the camera selling business. Like they have been over the last several decades. Business models shift and they've done a pretty good job with survival (other not so much) and actually turning a profit with proactive marketing and development strategies.

Let's cut them some slack here. We should all be grateful that especially Canon is still keeping up a business model that makes money by selling to consumers and P&S moms & dads - while maintaining a full and extensive pro line that isn't really much of a moneymaker but really just there to carry the image of the brand = with a few lucky exception like the 5DII for example that sold to pros and consumers alike. Why not milk that a bit more by shifting that technology out to people who so far couldn't or wouldn't afford it? I know quite a few people who would be more than happy to have a 5DII sensor in their cameras. We all have out preferences and I could easily dream up my preferred DSLR - which other than me maybe 5 people in the world would be interested in (think FD manual lens F1n style body with a 5D-type sensor...).

In real life and in the hands of a good photographer I challenge you to tell if an image was shot with a 5DII, 5DIII, 1DsIII, 1DX or 800E.

Maybe you should go back and read my post again, and of course the previous posts.

1. I'm not sad that people are content with their 5D Mark II's. Read again!
2. How'd you come up with the part the people wanting something different makes me sad?

One couldn't get my post more wrong! I wonder how you managed that...

It's very funny that you suggest, we should be "grateful" to a corporate company, cut them some slack and stuff like that. Are you a baseball coach or something?

I'm paying a premium for a Canon or Nikon product and I should be grateful? WTF???

And oh yeah, I can very well tell if an image was shot with a 5DII, 1DsIII, or 800E. I don't expect you to do it, because you think 5DII's sensor is still professional grade and you are grateful for it!

Sorry if I misunderstood you. I was paraphrasing what I thought you had said under #1 and #2 in your original posting.

And no, I'm not a baseball coach :-) Not sure what it would mean if I was but there you have it. I actually don't care for team sports that much.

And no, "corporation" to me is not an ugly word. Sadly, it is used these days way to often as in "corporations are no people"-talk (when in fact they are at least persons legally - hence the name). And yes, I am indeed grateful to live in a day and age with free trade, open markets and great ideas taking on quickly, giving millions of people work and producing fabulous products that would have been unthinkable not too long ago. And not just in mainstream mass markets but also in relatively small niche markets like high end camera gear.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Chuck Alaimo on September 09, 2012, 06:54:31 PM
...Right now, I have a 5D2 and a 7D...

...funny is, that this is what Canon wants - us having 2 bodies (damn, they even share the same batteries...). Canon force you to buy 2 bodies. But if you want one body that can do everything - you should get 1D-X.



Depending on what your work is, 2 bodies is already built into the equation and it has nothing to do with what the body can do, its about what your lenses can do.  If lets say you do wedding work and love the way your 70-200 and your 24-70 (or 16-35...or whatever prime lens combo you have) works, then even if you have the almighty 1dx...your still left with either, rushing to switch lenses or picking up a second body to over more focal lengths.   If you do studio work then things are moving at a slower tempo and you can take the time to use one body and ponder your lens selection.  But if you want a wide shot and a tight shot of the bride and groom having their first kiss...only way your getting that is with 2 bodies (or a second shooter, still that means 2 bodies)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: tiger82 on September 09, 2012, 07:00:24 PM
A 7D and 5D2 is still a lot less than a 1Dx plus a backup.  And the IQ or the aperture of a 28-300 doesn't match up to a 24-70 plus a 70-200.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: e_honda on September 09, 2012, 08:19:04 PM
What would sell?  IMO, Take the 7D body and slap a FF sensor in it and either stay with the Dual Digic 4 or use the 5 or 5+ while keeping everything else the same.  Call it the 7Ds (just like the 1Ds is the FF version of the 1D) and slap a $500 premium for the FF which will put it smack in the $1500-2000 vacant price point between the 7D and the 5D3 where the 5D2 is going extinct.  I think people would buy a FF body capable of 6-8fps.  Forget new vs old technology, what product is missing from their lines?  A poor man's 1Dx.

I'd buy that in an instant and so would a ton of other people. And that would be the problem for Canon:  the market for the 5D3 would shrink substantially.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Axilrod on September 09, 2012, 08:41:18 PM
Honestly Canon needs to get this thing out there very soon with the D600 and Sony A99 around the corner.  Granted at $2800 the A99 is going to be more costly than both of them, but it's specs are ridiculous:


24.3 Mpx Full frame CMOS Exmor sensor
SLT technology
New Bionz imaging engine
14 bit RAW recording
10 fps
ISO 100 up to 25.600
50 ISO extended (with lower dynamic range)
102 AF point AF (11 cross).
AF range
MF assist
Dual Phase detection system (with AF phase pixels on sensor)
30 sec and 1/8000 maximum shutter speed
Time Lag 0.05 sec.
Shutter life guarantee of 200,000 cycles
2.360k OLED electronic viewfinder
3″921k LCD with same tilting system of the A77
Full HD video recording at 1920×1080/50p (US: 60p) AVCHD 2.0 format.
Clean HDMI output
Built-in stereo mic
Auto HDR capability
New multi-segment low pass filter
Photodiode expansion technology
Light concentration technology
Selective noise reduction
Ultrasonic anti dust system
In body image stabilization
Two memory slots: SD and SD+MS cards
USB: 2.0
Announced on September 12, 2012
Available in stores in late October 2012
New accessories to be released with the a99: battery grip, flash, remote control, microphone etc.
Very light, weather sealed magnesium alloy body.With 730 g this is the lightest FF body on market!
Price unconfirmed yet but should be at around 2800 Dollars.

I'm definitely interested in this thing, I think this is going to seriously eat into 5D3 sales.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: tiger82 on September 09, 2012, 08:57:28 PM
What about the glass?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: crasher8 on September 09, 2012, 09:30:53 PM
Canon glass keeps you with Canon
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: unfocused on September 09, 2012, 09:58:15 PM
I still see Canon's path as pretty obvious and easy.

I'm bookmarking this so I can quote you in 2013 :-)

Please do. I'm, offering a money-back guarantee if I'm wrong.

Nicely fills out the line, giving consumers and pros more choices and helps transition buyer to two bodies each.

But why would Canon want to split the former two bodies (40d/5d) into *five* different ones (70d/7d2/6d/5d3/5dhd)? Sure this gives people more choices, but Canon is about making money and this variety also creates confusion and more support and manufacturing costs.

Imho if they expand the ff line they'll drop one of the crop cameras, i.e. no 7d2 but a bumped up 70d. And your "5d hd" might be very well an expensive "1d hd" at first because the people really wanting a $3000 36mp sensor have switched to Nikon by now.

I'm sure every manufacturer would produce just one model of anything if they could be confident it would sell and if they had no competition. But, they do have competition and if Canon doesn't meet the market demand, others will.

It is clear from the Rebel line that using modern manufacturing techniques, it's possible to offer minor differentiation and still keep the line profitable.
 
Consumers like choices. Ever go shopping for a TV, a car or even laundry detergent? I don't know about others, but if I'm spending $1,000 or more on a product I'm going to make sure I've compared every available model and picked the one that I think will work for me. If one manufacturer doesn't offer any choice, I'll go to the one that does offer some choice.

If having three (maybe four) full frame options and five or so APS-C options is beyond someone's brainpower, they probably aren't shopping for a DSLR anyway.

We've been through this discussion before on numerous threads. Both the 60D and the 7D have been great sellers for Canon. A full frame equivalent of the 60/70D is more of a threat to the 5DIII than to the next generation of the 7D.

7D owners have a high level of satisfaction and are fiercely loyal to the camera. Having just developed that market, it's unlikely that Canon is going to abandon it now.

A 6D is never going to satisfy most 7D owners, who want the extra reach , build quality and professional features that the 7D offers. And, despite the fantasizing that is going on, both the 6D and the D600 are going to be positioned well below the D800 and the 5DIII.

I'm the least confident in the high-megapixel camera. Not sure what the market is for that. But, I assume Nikon did some market research and they seem to be selling, so I imagine Canon is not going to concede that customer base and if they can slide a high megapixel sensor into the existing 5DIII body without major modifications, it's a financial winner for them.

All fun to speculate about. Good news is that after this week we'll know what Nikon is offering and that will give us a very good idea what the 6D will be like.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: kaihp on September 09, 2012, 10:54:42 PM
I'm sure every manufacturer would produce just one model of anything if they could be confident it would sell and if they had no competition. But, they do have competition and if Canon doesn't meet the market demand, others will.

It is clear from the Rebel line that using modern manufacturing techniques, it's possible to offer minor differentiation and still keep the line profitable.
 
Consumers like choices. Ever go shopping for a TV, a car or even laundry detergent? I don't know about others, but if I'm spending $1,000 or more on a product I'm going to make sure I've compared every available model and picked the one that I think will work for me. If one manufacturer doesn't offer any choice, I'll go to the one that does offer some choice.
You may think so, but there is a lot of people that don't think that way. Consumers don't necessarily want many choices and  many features. They just want a product that works well for them, and is well thought out and well designed - Apple's strategy is the current prime example of this.

Hmm ... can't imagine that I just wrote that, considering how anti-Apple I generally am :)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: mystic_theory on September 10, 2012, 03:32:01 AM
If you take different parts of old people and stitch them together, do you get a young person?

So, I guess that Canon is planning to put out a "new" product which is simply a Frankenstein of outdated products.

No you wont get young person :-D

...hmm, according to you, 550D should have different AF then 500D, 600D should have new sensor and new AF (because it is new generation of camera, doesnt matter that life cycle is +- one year), 60 D with new AF and different sensor too. Of course they reuse parts. They reuse them to make stuff cheaper. What do you think how many would Rebel cost if every next gen would get entirely new sensor, AF etc ? R&D costs of new sensor are big. And its not all about sensor, processors counts too...

I agree that they have to reuse parts to make cameras cheaper, but if they do that for three years and more, that's way overdone. As somebody has said, the only reason to stay with Canon is that the quality of their lenses is still superior, on average, to that of the competitors. Moreover the fact that Canon has sold the most of all makes the used market quite liquid, and the stuff cheaper. But if it was just for the camera bodies, I would jump immediately from Canon to Nikon/Sony/Pentax. Their cameras at the moment are way superior.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Twostones on September 10, 2012, 04:46:04 AM
   I would love an affordable Full Frame Canon but the touch screen would be a negative value for me. Make the controls like my 7D and I would buy one if the price is reasonable. The touch screens added cost could also raise the price beyond a good market target.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: simonxu11 on September 10, 2012, 04:53:34 AM
Canon is too conservative recently, they are the last one step into mirrorless camera, see what they come up with.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: facedodge on September 10, 2012, 09:11:56 AM
I hate these threads... Everyone expects a 5D3 with a different name for half the price. Most of the time you get what you pay for. I'm sure if Canon did offer something like this, there would be so many complaints about purposely handicapping the camera with no this or that.

Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: bbasiaga on September 10, 2012, 10:16:34 AM
I hate these threads... Everyone expects a 5D3 with a different name for half the price. Most of the time you get what you pay for. I'm sure if Canon did offer something like this, there would be so many complaints about purposely handicapping the camera with no this or that.

One thing is for sure with this camera - regardless of how good it actually may be, it will be FLAMED to no end. 



-Brian 
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: unfocused on September 10, 2012, 12:46:21 PM
I hate these threads... Everyone expects a 5D3 with a different name for half the price. Most of the time you get what you pay for. I'm sure if Canon did offer something like this, there would be so many complaints about purposely handicapping the camera with no this or that.

One thing is for sure with this camera - regardless of how good it actually may be, it will be FLAMED to no end. 



-Brian

So true...so very very true. Welcome to Canon Rumors Forum. :)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: joemod on September 10, 2012, 03:44:19 PM
What would sell?  IMO, Take the 7D body and slap a FF sensor in it and either stay with the Dual Digic 4 or use the 5 or 5+ while keeping everything else the same.  Call it the 7Ds (just like the 1Ds is the FF version of the 1D) and slap a $500 premium for the FF which will put it smack in the $1500-2000 vacant price point between the 7D and the 5D3 where the 5D2 is going extinct.  I think people would buy a FF body capable of 6-8fps.  Forget new vs old technology, what product is missing from their lines?  A poor man's 1Dx.

I'd buy that in an instant and so would a ton of other people. And that would be the problem for Canon:  the market for the 5D3 would shrink substantially.
I don't think so. Most pros who wanted/needed 5DIII must have bought it already. I am making a wild guess that those who haven't bought it already are waiting for the price to drop or can't justify buying it or are in waiting list. I belong in the first 2 categories. I really wonder how many bodies Canon has sold up to now.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: dhofmann on September 10, 2012, 04:35:06 PM
I'm sure every manufacturer would produce just one model of anything if they could be confident it would sell and if they had no competition.

No, they would always be looking for ways to lower manufacturing costs that would allow them to keep the price the same or higher, in order to maximize their profits.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on September 11, 2012, 05:32:32 AM
I hate these threads... Everyone expects a 5D3 with a different name for half the price.

Not true - I'd be ok with an updated 5d2 with 5d3 sensor (which is basically the same anyway) with 7d-style af. It could have less fps than 5d3, less sturdy build (I've got a 60d after all and it didn't fall to pieces yet), amateurish look (touchscreen, sviwelscreen), one sd card slot, no quiet shutter, only one c setting.

What I wouldn't be happy with is Canon crippling the body on purpose like the 60d by removing afma, cutting x-sync to 1/125 sec and cutting the firmware features beyond that what is even available on the 60d.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: samirachiko on September 11, 2012, 06:20:13 AM
I really don't understand people who say "I hate the articulated screen" ecc

I think that it is VERY VERY useful in photography and also taking video!

Ok, don't you like it?? SIMPLE don't move it! How is the problem??? Someone says "it is easy to break it"....... -_-!  if you use your things like a toy you could break everything!...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on September 11, 2012, 06:35:08 AM
I think that it is VERY VERY useful in photography and also taking video!

Usefulness has nothing to do with it, it's just that "pro" bodies like the 5d/1d don't have it, the 7d probably not because it was released before Canon switched to swivel screens (60d/600d/650d). So people *feel* like they have a p&s or video cam, and not the sturdy marvel of engineering they have paid thousands of $$$ for. If the 1d/5d would have swivel screens and the cheaper bodies not, everyone probably would be crying for one.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: verysimplejason on September 11, 2012, 08:30:09 AM
I think that it is VERY VERY useful in photography and also taking video!

Usefulness has nothing to do with it, it's just that "pro" bodies like the 5d/1d don't have it, the 7d probably not because it was released before Canon switched to swivel screens (60d/600d/650d). So people *feel* like they have a p&s or video cam, and not the sturdy marvel of engineering they have paid thousands of $$$ for. If the 1d/5d would have swivel screens and the cheaper bodies not, everyone probably would be crying for one.

+1.  That's called innovation.  The swivel screen is very useful for me especially for landscape photography where I need to keep the camera very low to the ground.  Of course, still most of the time you need your OVF but don't you like it if you have the option whenever OVF isn't that comfortable?  It's the same with AF.  Previously there's no AF in most cameras.  Now AF is one of the most important feature of modern day camera.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: bbasiaga on September 11, 2012, 08:34:30 AM
I didn't realize they switched the xxD series to SD cards.  My 40D is CF so i assumed the new ones were as well.  I hope they stick with CF cards, mainly because I don't want to have to go out and buy a second set of cards. 

Oh wait, that's not what I'm supposed to say.  Let me try again - 'if this thing comes with SD cards, it'll be the final proof that canon has lost complete touch with any sort of reality (real or imagined), and  I will instantly burn all my gear and switch to Nikon.'

There...that's more like it.  LOL

-Brian
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: verysimplejason on September 11, 2012, 08:54:07 AM
I didn't realize they switched the xxD series to SD cards.  My 40D is CF so i assumed the new ones were as well.  I hope they stick with CF cards, mainly because I don't want to have to go out and buy a second set of cards. 

Oh wait, that's not what I'm supposed to say.  Let me try again - 'if this thing comes with SD cards, it'll be the final proof that canon has lost complete touch with any sort of reality (real or imagined), and  I will instantly burn all my gear and switch to Nikon.'

There...that's more like it.  LOL

-Brian

Some SDHC cards are faster than your normal CF cards though of course CF has more pins so it still remains faster.  But truth is, SDHC approached speeds that are as fast as your normal CF cards and at a bargain price.  Since this is basically a starter FF camera, wouldn't SDHC logical?

Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: bbasiaga on September 11, 2012, 09:47:34 AM
IDK...i suppose it might.  I personally prefer CF because they are more robust and you can get some super high speed ones.  SD cards are a lot cheaper, so if I have to add some that is some solace.

There are two ways to look at this:

1. I want my rebel users to upgrade, so I'll put SD card slot in so they can use their current stuff.
2. I want this to be a gateway to pro models, so I'll put a CF card slot in to make the next step easier/give it the feel of a pro set up. 

Maybe it'll have dual slots so they can cover both bases?  I wish!  But not going to happen in an entry level body.

-Brian
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: ashmadux on September 11, 2012, 10:18:54 AM
7d autofocus? No thanks

Ive had the displeasure of owning this camera for over a year. Worst Af ive ever seen. If I was thinking about a possible 6d, lets just say im not any more :(

darn.


Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: RLPhoto on September 11, 2012, 11:00:07 AM
7d autofocus? No thanks

Ive had the displeasure of owning this camera for over a year. Worst Af ive ever seen. If I was thinking about a possible 6d, lets just say im not any more :(

darn.

The 7D's AF is superb. Nuff said.  8)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: jfretless on September 11, 2012, 11:12:25 AM
7d autofocus? No thanks

Ive had the displeasure of owning this camera for over a year. Worst Af ive ever seen. If I was thinking about a possible 6d, lets just say im not any more :(

darn.

The 7D's AF is superb. Nuff said.  8)

+1.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: Getunt on September 11, 2012, 11:39:43 AM
IDK...i suppose it might.  I personally prefer CF because they are more robust and you can get some super high speed ones.  SD cards are a lot cheaper, so if I have to add some that is some solace.

There are two ways to look at this:

1. I want my rebel users to upgrade, so I'll put SD card slot in so they can use their current stuff.
2. I want this to be a gateway to pro models, so I'll put a CF card slot in to make the next step easier/give it the feel of a pro set up. 

Maybe it'll have dual slots so they can cover both bases?  I wish!  But not going to happen in an entry level body.

Sorry, but do you ever use SD´s? They´re fast, durable & cheaper than cf´s... For exemple the 16GB SD Extreme Pro 95MB/s from SanDisk for only 33 €, instead of more than 100 € for an CF Card with this speed...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: pakosouthpark on September 11, 2012, 12:24:53 PM
I think that it is VERY VERY useful in photography and also taking video!

Usefulness has nothing to do with it, it's just that "pro" bodies like the 5d/1d don't have it, the 7d probably not because it was released before Canon switched to swivel screens (60d/600d/650d). So people *feel* like they have a p&s or video cam, and not the sturdy marvel of engineering they have paid thousands of $$$ for. If the 1d/5d would have swivel screens and the cheaper bodies not, everyone probably would be crying for one.

+1.  That's called innovation.  The swivel screen is very useful for me especially for landscape photography where I need to keep the camera very low to the ground.  Of course, still most of the time you need your OVF but don't you like it if you have the option whenever OVF isn't that comfortable?  It's the same with AF.  Previously there's no AF in most cameras.  Now AF is one of the most important feature of modern day camera.

so true, if you dont like it don't use.. but im sure everyone that that doesn't like it would eventually end up by using it!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: bbasiaga on September 11, 2012, 12:28:19 PM
IDK...i suppose it might.  I personally prefer CF because they are more robust and you can get some super high speed ones.  SD cards are a lot cheaper, so if I have to add some that is some solace.

There are two ways to look at this:

1. I want my rebel users to upgrade, so I'll put SD card slot in so they can use their current stuff.
2. I want this to be a gateway to pro models, so I'll put a CF card slot in to make the next step easier/give it the feel of a pro set up. 

Maybe it'll have dual slots so they can cover both bases?  I wish!  But not going to happen in an entry level body.

Sorry, but do you ever use SD´s? They´re fast, durable & cheaper than cf´s... For exemple the 16GB SD Extreme Pro 95MB/s from SanDisk for only 33 €, instead of more than 100 € for an CF Card with this speed...


No, I don't use them very much.  As I said in one of my earlier posts, I have CF cards for my 40d and 5d.  I do have a couple of older SDs for a point and shoot, and a pair of micro SDs for some android tablets.  They are the same model (Sandisk Extreme IIs i think) as my CF cards, and not as fast to transfer despite the label.  I do realize this isn't a scientific test, and SD cards have advanced quite a bit along with CF cards over the years.  They also seem fragile, though I've never broken one of either type. 

I simply find the CF card a more pleaseing format for me.  Definitely not a deal killer though.  Murphy's laws would imply there is a 100% chance of this cam being SD based, since I just bought a new set of CFs.  LOL.  But time will tell. 

I see the 7D AF thing has popped up again - there is always one person talking bad for every 5-10 in a thread that talking good about that AF system.  I wonder if there is a  QC issue, or if its a learning thing.  I'll have to do some more research.

-Brian

Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: AudioGlenn on September 11, 2012, 01:03:11 PM
I really don't understand people who say "I hate the articulated screen" ecc

I think that it is VERY VERY useful in photography and also taking video!

Ok, don't you like it?? SIMPLE don't move it! How is the problem??? Someone says "it is easy to break it"....... -_-!  if you use your things like a toy you could break everything!...

+1, yeah I still don't get this.  how can having the option to swivel the screen out be a bad thing?  I don't understand the "pro bodies don't have it" reason.  so what if pro bodies haven't had this feature yet.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: ashmadux on September 11, 2012, 01:27:19 PM
7d autofocus? No thanks

Ive had the displeasure of owning this camera for over a year. Worst Af ive ever seen. If I was thinking about a possible 6d, lets just say im not any more :(

darn.

The 7D's AF is superb. Nuff said.  8)

+1.

well it USED to work. canon cant seem to fix it. so hence, the trade in. keeping it close by - not in use- for whenever an announcement is made. i hate the 7d. Glad your story isnt mile mine :(

Title: Re: Canon EOS 6D Announcement Soon? [CR1]
Post by: samirachiko on September 11, 2012, 05:27:18 PM
I really don't understand people who say "I hate the articulated screen" ecc

I think that it is VERY VERY useful in photography and also taking video!

Ok, don't you like it?? SIMPLE don't move it! How is the problem??? Someone says "it is easy to break it"....... -_-!  if you use your things like a toy you could break everything!...

+1, yeah I still don't get this.  how can having the option to swivel the screen out be a bad thing?  I don't understand the "pro bodies don't have it" reason.  so what if pro bodies haven't had this feature yet.

Totally agree with you!  ;)

Think like that: "pro bodies don't have it"......elderly people should think so ;)