canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => EOS Bodies - For Stills => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on September 16, 2012, 09:29:03 AM

Title: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Canon Rumors on September 16, 2012, 09:29:03 AM

Pre Photokina

Canon will be announcing their Photokina products on September 17, 2012. We’ll be around to cover the new gear that will get announced.


What to expect



There has been very little mention of new EOS lenses, though we do expect some before the end of 2012.


cr


Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Ricku on September 16, 2012, 09:36:38 AM
Canon bores us again.

No word on a high MP / high DR body?  :-\

Oh well. The wait continues..
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: g2 on September 16, 2012, 09:45:34 AM
6D - YAY
With 11 point AF - NAY

Hope it's 7D AF at the least and available soon.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: samirachiko on September 16, 2012, 09:48:45 AM
Hope to see a really innovative canon 6D like the Nikon D600! :)

Articulated screen, built-in time-lapse, built in flash ecc

PLEASE NO a stupid touch screen

Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: DzPhotography on September 16, 2012, 10:03:56 AM
I will be visiting Photokina on Thursday & Friday ;)
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: simonxu11 on September 16, 2012, 10:06:21 AM
So the specs of 6D is settled  :o :o
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: DzPhotography on September 16, 2012, 10:27:50 AM
So the specs of 6D is settled  :o :o
No one knows if it's real  ::)
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 10:27:55 AM
So will be tonight around midnight EST?   Hope the 6D is crap... so I won't feel bad about my 5D2.  I don't want to get laughed at and ridiculed when out in public.  People with modern cameras already laugh when they see the outdated CF cards I still use and don't even have an articulating LCD.  It's embarrassing.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: DzPhotography on September 16, 2012, 10:38:34 AM
So will be tonight around midnight EST?   Hope the 6D is crap... so I won't feel bad about my 5D2.  I don't want to get laughed at and ridiculed when out in public.  People with modern cameras already laugh when they see the outdated CF cards I still use and don't even have an articulating LCD.  It's embarrassing.
Then they don't know what they're talking & laughing about...  ::)
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 10:48:21 AM
Hmmmm..... photoprice.ca is already showing a link for 6D but of course no actual prices from any resellers...  but still, there must be some confidence in this product being released with the rumored specs.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: bvukich on September 16, 2012, 10:51:05 AM
So the specs of 6D is settled  :o :o

It's still a rumor until an announcement is made.  Until then it's wild speculation and guessing, with sides of wishful thinking, and pessimism.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: mathino on September 16, 2012, 10:59:21 AM
IF 6D would have 11 point AF (cross-type) with center point double cross-type then OK - I will probably get one. If it is just 1 cross-type point - 5D Mk II is better for my needs. Fingers crossed !
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: SwampYankee on September 16, 2012, 11:07:39 AM
So will be tonight around midnight EST?   Hope the 6D is crap... so I won't feel bad about my 5D2.  I don't want to get laughed at and ridiculed when out in public.  People with modern cameras already laugh when they see the outdated CF cards I still use and don't even have an articulating LCD.  It's embarrassing.
Well honestly, what did you expect?  You get out of the house and all of your lenses don't even have a red ring around them?  I bet you secretly have a 580 flash too.  Whats to point of evn going out to take pictures, you don't stand a chance.    ;D
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 11:19:22 AM
So will be tonight around midnight EST?   Hope the 6D is crap... so I won't feel bad about my 5D2.  I don't want to get laughed at and ridiculed when out in public.  People with modern cameras already laugh when they see the outdated CF cards I still use and don't even have an articulating LCD.  It's embarrassing.
Well honestly, what did you expect?  You get out of the house and all of your lenses don't even have a red ring around them?  I bet you secretly have a 580 flash too.  Whats to point of evn going out to take pictures, you don't stand a chance.    ;D

That's another point of embarrassment, thanks for making me feel worse... people are always pointing out that I don't even have the flash built in and have to put a big old flash on.  Sometimes when I put it on outdoors then even children start pointing and laughing and saying things like "oh, his camera is old it even needs a flash on sunny day... what was that made in like 2009.. hahaha" and then I have to reply "yeah, well your mother is fat so there". 
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: verysimplejason on September 16, 2012, 11:30:31 AM
IF 6D would have 11 point AF (cross-type) with center point double cross-type then OK - I will probably get one. If it is just 1 cross-type point - 5D Mk II is better for my needs. Fingers crossed !

no problem as long as it's cheap around 1500.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: photogaz on September 16, 2012, 11:32:26 AM
a new 35L maybe now the 24-70 II has gone to retail?

What about a new 300 f4?
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: mathino on September 16, 2012, 11:39:10 AM
IF 6D would have 11 point AF (cross-type) with center point double cross-type then OK - I will probably get one. If it is just 1 cross-type point - 5D Mk II is better for my needs. Fingers crossed !

no problem as long as it's cheap around 1500.

I think it wont come cheaper then 2k. Well, Im not saying Ill buy it right after announcement but Im ready for 2k price tag (with AF imrpoved compared to Mk II). If its just 1 cross-type in the center I would take a second look at Mk II.

...I think that it was published on ********* that current 650D AF module is better then 5D Mk II. So putting worse AF then Rebel line into entry FF makes no sense to me...

http://www.*********.com/review-rebel-t4ieos-650d-is-a-great-entry-level-dslr/ (http://www.*********.com/review-rebel-t4ieos-650d-is-a-great-entry-level-dslr/)
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: ecka on September 16, 2012, 12:25:02 PM
IF 6D would have 11 point AF (cross-type) with center point double cross-type then OK - I will probably get one. If it is just 1 cross-type point - 5D Mk II is better for my needs. Fingers crossed !

no problem as long as it's cheap around 1500.

I think it wont come cheaper then 2k. Well, Im not saying Ill buy it right after announcement but Im ready for 2k price tag (with AF imrpoved compared to Mk II). If its just 1 cross-type in the center I would take a second look at Mk II.

...I think that it was published on ********* that current 650D AF module is better then 5D Mk II. So putting worse AF then Rebel line into entry FF makes no sense to me...

http://www.*********.com/review-rebel-t4ieos-650d-is-a-great-entry-level-dslr/ (http://www.*********.com/review-rebel-t4ieos-650d-is-a-great-entry-level-dslr/)

Get ready for $2500 MSRP ;).
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: candyman on September 16, 2012, 12:29:48 PM
IF 6D would have 11 point AF (cross-type) with center point double cross-type then OK - I will probably get one. If it is just 1 cross-type point - 5D Mk II is better for my needs. Fingers crossed !

no problem as long as it's cheap around 1500.

I think it wont come cheaper then 2k. Well, Im not saying Ill buy it right after announcement but Im ready for 2k price tag (with AF imrpoved compared to Mk II). If its just 1 cross-type in the center I would take a second look at Mk II.

...I think that it was published on ********* that current 650D AF module is better then 5D Mk II. So putting worse AF then Rebel line into entry FF makes no sense to me...

http://www.*********.com/review-rebel-t4ieos-650d-is-a-great-entry-level-dslr/ (http://www.*********.com/review-rebel-t4ieos-650d-is-a-great-entry-level-dslr/)

Get ready for $2500 MSRP ;) .

A $2500 MSRP would mean a €2500 MSRP price in Europe. That would be a NON-competitive price. For 400 euro more, you can get the 5D MKIII. It just does not make sense unless it is the opening price that needs to go down with at least 600 euro but only after 4 to 6 months. By then, most may have saved the money to buy the 5D MKIII
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: candyman on September 16, 2012, 12:55:03 PM
BTW:


Photokina opens on September 18th.

http://www.photokina.com/en/photokina/home/index.php (http://www.photokina.com/en/photokina/home/index.php)

Is it common for exhibitors to bring out announcements one day before opening? So on the 17th?
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 01:16:49 PM
IF 6D would have 11 point AF (cross-type) with center point double cross-type then OK - I will probably get one. If it is just 1 cross-type point - 5D Mk II is better for my needs. Fingers crossed !

no problem as long as it's cheap around 1500.

I think it wont come cheaper then 2k. Well, Im not saying Ill buy it right after announcement but Im ready for 2k price tag (with AF imrpoved compared to Mk II). If its just 1 cross-type in the center I would take a second look at Mk II.

...I think that it was published on ********* that current 650D AF module is better then 5D Mk II. So putting worse AF then Rebel line into entry FF makes no sense to me...

http://www.*********.com/review-rebel-t4ieos-650d-is-a-great-entry-level-dslr/ (http://www.*********.com/review-rebel-t4ieos-650d-is-a-great-entry-level-dslr/)

Get ready for $2500 MSRP ;).

Not likely but anything is possible I suppose.  If so, the wholesale price will allow room for the street price to come down pretty quickly to no more than $2100.   Who is this body targeted to... it'll be a good camera no doubt and could be used by beginners all the way to pros for certain types of shooting... but what is the primary target market?  At this point in time... 11 point AF, APS-C type body, 4.5 fps, SD card, etc. are all entry level features... for sports shooting on a budget the 7D is still the better choice...  so if sports is not the choice then the consideration is between a 6D and the 60D or 650D which means a huge difference in price... therefore, the person who chooses this body is going to be someone who is acutely aware of the IQ advantage of a FF sensor but has no need whatsoever for the better features of the 5D3.  Sales people in big box stores aren't going to be able to upsell the average consumer of the advantages of FF...  so how big is the market for a 6D?   Maybe it's huge, I don't know.



Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Lee Jay on September 16, 2012, 01:17:34 PM
Excuse me for saying this, but where the !@#$% are the 60D and 7D replacements?  Sheesh!
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 01:22:42 PM
Excuse me for saying this, but where the !@#$% are the 60D and 7D replacements?  Sheesh!

No need... those bodies still rock.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: ecka on September 16, 2012, 01:28:04 PM
Get ready for $2500 MSRP ;) .

A $2500 MSRP would mean a €2500 MSRP price in Europe. That would be a NON-competitive price. For 400 euro more, you can get the 5D MKIII. It just does not make sense unless it is the opening price that needs to go down with at least 600 euro but only after 4 to 6 months. By then, most may have saved the money to buy the 5D MKIII

5D3 is $3500 MSRP, regardless of the actual retail prices. I think it is logical to assume that the retail price of this rumored poor-man's 5D would be lower than it's MSRP as well. The old 5D2 is $2200 MSRP, but you can get it for $1899 from amazon (atm). If 6D was $2000 MSRP and even lower retail price, then who is going to buy either 5D3 or 7D2 (which should be near $1900 MSRP) ?? Not me! :D
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Wahoowa on September 16, 2012, 01:30:52 PM
Hope to see a really innovative canon 6D like the Nikon D600! :)

Articulated screen, built-in time-lapse, built in flash ecc

PLEASE NO a stupid touch screen

+1

You and I think alike. I will only find the new 6D useful if it's in a compact size and comes with flipped screen & built-in flash. Built-in time lapse would be nice. But the most important is good AF and has MA.

This will be a perfect backup to my 5D3.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 01:40:56 PM
Get ready for $2500 MSRP ;) .

A $2500 MSRP would mean a €2500 MSRP price in Europe. That would be a NON-competitive price. For 400 euro more, you can get the 5D MKIII. It just does not make sense unless it is the opening price that needs to go down with at least 600 euro but only after 4 to 6 months. By then, most may have saved the money to buy the 5D MKIII

5D3 is $3500 MSRP, regardless of the actual retail prices. I think it is logical to assume that the retail price of this rumored poor-man's 5D would be lower than it's MSRP as well. The old 5D2 is $2200 MSRP, but you can get it for $1899 from amazon (atm). If 6D was $2000 MSRP and even lower retail price, then who is going to buy either 5D3 or 7D2 (which should be near $1900 MSRP) ?? Not me! :D

Currently, the only reason to buy a 7D over a 60D or 5D2 is for the speed, AF, etc. for sports shooting... and those benefits will still exist over this alleged 6D.   So (as I said above) I see it the other way around... who will buy the 6D over a 5D3 or 7D?   Yes of course some will buy it... if you don't shoot sports, and don't need the advanced features of a 5D3, and understand the IQ advantage of FF over a crop (eg. 60/650D)... then this 6D is perfect... but how many consumers fit into that category?  You do, and so do many people on this site.... but that is a small slice of the market Canon needs to hit to make decent sales volume.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Bruce Photography on September 16, 2012, 01:45:51 PM
So will be tonight around midnight EST?   Hope the 6D is crap... so I won't feel bad about my 5D2.  I don't want to get laughed at and ridiculed when out in public.  People with modern cameras already laugh when they see the outdated CF cards I still use and don't even have an articulating LCD.  It's embarrassing.
Then they don't know what they're talking & laughing about...  ::)

+1.  I like CF cards much better for their speed and durability.  I expect SD to someday take over the speed game and that devices would all have to conform to that new SD speed but that day is NOT TODAY.  While I still prefer a tiltable screen, I can see with the 5DIII and the D800 that it is vital that the buttons be placed where they are.  If the screen swings out from the left hinge it would block the left vertical buttons.  I love using my 60D and the swing doesn't seem to bother me.  My guess is that someday the entire back (except for the joystick and a menu button) will be articulated with very wide and high.  Perhaps a pro screen with nothing but buttons.  Here is where I'm laughing.....
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 01:47:36 PM
Hope to see a really innovative canon 6D like the Nikon D600! :)

Articulated screen, built-in time-lapse, built in flash ecc

PLEASE NO a stupid touch screen

+1

You and I think alike. I will only find the new 6D useful if it's in a compact size and comes with flipped screen & built-in flash. Built-in time lapse would be nice. But the most important is good AF and has MA.

This will be a perfect backup to my 5D3.

For anyone thinking of a 6D over a 5D3, it will be disappointing if there's no MA but that would certainly be a good feature to leave out in order to position this body sufficiently below the 5D3.   Yes, I know the 7D has MA but other than the FF sensor the specs of this body are all below the 7D so they could get away with leaving MA out.

If you shoot with a 5D3 now and use flash then you must have external flashes already... why then would you be so interested in a pop-up flash on a 6D as a backup to your 5D3?
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Musouka on September 16, 2012, 01:49:20 PM
Hmm where has the forum topic for this post gone?

http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/09/adorama-jumps-the-gun-offers-eos-6d-preorder/ (http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/09/adorama-jumps-the-gun-offers-eos-6d-preorder/)

In any case, given the $2099 price, it's almost guaranteed we will get the 11pt AF Model.
Title: A couple thoughts
Post by: hmmm on September 16, 2012, 01:52:18 PM
meh -- thanks for the laugh!  :)

I'm hoping the 6D will be better than its rumored spec.   What could save it is a revolutionary new sensor.   If it does have such a sensor that could explain why Adorama decided to sell 818 5D mk III bodies on ebay yesterday for $2750 each (2 1/4 million in revenue).

Lens - bring on the 300 f4L mk II or the 100-400 L mkII with rotating focus ring, not push-pull.  Especially that latter.    If I wind up switching to N I guess it won't matter, but such an update would make it harder to leave!
Title: Re: A couple thoughts
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 01:56:00 PM
meh -- thanks for the laugh!  :)

I'm hoping the 6D will be better than its rumored spec.   What could save it is a revolutionary new sensor.   If it does have such a sensor that could explain why Adorama decided to sell 818 5D mk III bodies on ebay yesterday for $2750 each (2 1/4 million in revenue).

Lens - bring on the 300 f4L mk II or the 100-400 L mkII with rotating focus ring, not push-pull.  Especially that latter.    If I wind up switching to N I guess it won't matter, but such an update would make it harder to leave!

Nice thought, but how much of a revolutionary new sensor can Canon put in a 6D when they just released the 5D3... it's actually odd that they would design and manufacture a different FF sensor with nearly the same resolution (very costly to design and set up the fab)... more likely that it will be the 5D3 sensor and the differentiation will be in all the other specs.  But, the rumoured specs are all over so the indication is for a different sensor.  Strange.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: EOBeav on September 16, 2012, 02:37:17 PM
Jeez. So they really are calling it a 6D?
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: ecka on September 16, 2012, 02:38:09 PM
Get ready for $2500 MSRP ;) .

A $2500 MSRP would mean a €2500 MSRP price in Europe. That would be a NON-competitive price. For 400 euro more, you can get the 5D MKIII. It just does not make sense unless it is the opening price that needs to go down with at least 600 euro but only after 4 to 6 months. By then, most may have saved the money to buy the 5D MKIII

5D3 is $3500 MSRP, regardless of the actual retail prices. I think it is logical to assume that the retail price of this rumored poor-man's 5D would be lower than it's MSRP as well. The old 5D2 is $2200 MSRP, but you can get it for $1899 from amazon (atm). If 6D was $2000 MSRP and even lower retail price, then who is going to buy either 5D3 or 7D2 (which should be near $1900 MSRP) ?? Not me! :D

Currently, the only reason to buy a 7D over a 60D or 5D2 is for the speed, AF, etc. for sports shooting... and those benefits will still exist over this alleged 6D.   So (as I said above) I see it the other way around... who will buy the 6D over a 5D3 or 7D?   Yes of course some will buy it... if you don't shoot sports, and don't need the advanced features of a 5D3, and understand the IQ advantage of FF over a crop (eg. 60/650D)... then this 6D is perfect... but how many consumers fit into that category?  You do, and so do many people on this site.... but that is a small slice of the market Canon needs to hit to make decent sales volume.

Sorry, I see no logic in that. I think there are many more not-so-rich enthusiast photographers (like me, perhaps :) ) than sport/action PROs. I did buy 7D a few years ago, but not for the fps or a bit better sensor (going from 500D). I couldn't afford 5D2 back then and I liked 7D AF system, rugged body, CF slot (I was going to upgrade to 5D series anyway, so I didn't want to waste $ on SD for 60D), AFMA (for my 2 Sigmas), wireless flash control, good battery, ergonomics ... and I still think that 7D is one of the best Canon DSLR in history.
IMHO, most of us would buy 6D for less than $2000 over 5D3 or 7D2. 4.5fps is not that slow ;)
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: M249 on September 16, 2012, 02:40:31 PM
With the EOS 6D at 2099 USD we can now expect the EOS 7D Mark II to cost maximum 1699 USD.

1Dx = 6799
3D = 4499
5D3 = 3499
6D = 2099
7D2 = 1699
70D = 1099
650D = 799
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: M249 on September 16, 2012, 02:46:36 PM
Jeez. So they really are calling it a 6D?

Yeah I don't like the even number. I would have prefered 9D. But, then the 7D number would be above the 9D.
And that will not be the case. Canon should have named 7D "9D" from the start. Allowing them to fill in a mini 5D in the form of a FF 7D. But the did not expect a D600 at that time (2009) I guess.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: DzPhotography on September 16, 2012, 02:53:11 PM
With the EOS 6D at 2099 USD we can now expect the EOS 7D Mark II to cost maximum 1699 USD.

1Dx = 6799
3D = 4499
5D3 = 3499
6D = 2099
7D2 = 1699
70D = 1099
650D = 799
Who says there will be one?
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: M249 on September 16, 2012, 02:55:26 PM
With the EOS 6D at 2099 USD we can now expect the EOS 7D Mark II to cost maximum 1699 USD.

1Dx = 6799
3D = 4499
5D3 = 3499
6D = 2099
7D2 = 1699
70D = 1099
650D = 799
Who says there will be one?

I think there will be one but I can't be 100% shure. The gap between 60D/70D and 6D will be to big without a 7D replacement. And the 7D can't live on forever. At some point it will need Digic 5+.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 03:02:28 PM
Get ready for $2500 MSRP ;) .

A $2500 MSRP would mean a €2500 MSRP price in Europe. That would be a NON-competitive price. For 400 euro more, you can get the 5D MKIII. It just does not make sense unless it is the opening price that needs to go down with at least 600 euro but only after 4 to 6 months. By then, most may have saved the money to buy the 5D MKIII

5D3 is $3500 MSRP, regardless of the actual retail prices. I think it is logical to assume that the retail price of this rumored poor-man's 5D would be lower than it's MSRP as well. The old 5D2 is $2200 MSRP, but you can get it for $1899 from amazon (atm). If 6D was $2000 MSRP and even lower retail price, then who is going to buy either 5D3 or 7D2 (which should be near $1900 MSRP) ?? Not me! :D

Currently, the only reason to buy a 7D over a 60D or 5D2 is for the speed, AF, etc. for sports shooting... and those benefits will still exist over this alleged 6D.   So (as I said above) I see it the other way around... who will buy the 6D over a 5D3 or 7D?   Yes of course some will buy it... if you don't shoot sports, and don't need the advanced features of a 5D3, and understand the IQ advantage of FF over a crop (eg. 60/650D)... then this 6D is perfect... but how many consumers fit into that category?  You do, and so do many people on this site.... but that is a small slice of the market Canon needs to hit to make decent sales volume.

Sorry, I see no logic in that. I think there are many more not-so-rich enthusiast photographers (like me, perhaps :) ) than sport/action PROs. I did buy 7D a few years ago, but not for the fps or a bit better sensor (going from 500D). I couldn't afford 5D2 back then and I liked 7D AF system, rugged body, CF slot (I was going to upgrade to 5D series anyway, so I didn't want to waste $ on SD for 60D), AFMA (for my 2 Sigmas), wireless flash control, good battery, ergonomics ... and I still think that 7D is one of the best Canon DSLR in history.
IMHO, most of us would buy 6D for less than $2000 over 5D3 or 7D2. 4.5fps is not that slow ;)

Right, I agree... there is a market (e.g. you and people like you) but I'm questioning the size of that market.  I didn't suggest there are more sports shooters than non-sports shooters.   And we don't need to consider "rich people" because they are a narrow slice of any market as well (depending how you define rich but perhaps we can agree there are few people with so much money that they wank into a store and say give me the most expensive camera you have).   $2k is no small potatoes for a body so the purchaser typically has a reason to plunk down that kind of cash... so what is the reason in the case of a 6D?

Assume any 1-series body are out of the question due to price and price is an issue... and consider the choices you face:

6D vs 5D3:  5D3 is $1400 more but if you need the features of the "pro features" of the 5D3 then 6D is not even in your sights

6D vs. 7D:  If you are into sports, wildlife, etc. 7D is the better choice for a few reasons (debatable of course)

6D vs. 60/650D:  Price difference is $1200 bucks for same features other than sensor size and most consumers out there are not acutely aware of the IQ benefits of the FF sensor.

So, the typical purchaser of a 6D would be someone who does not need the pro features of a 5D3, does not shoot much sports/wildlife, and is aware of the IQ advantage of FF and willing to pay extra $1200 for it (not to mention the investment in lenses to realize that IQ advantage).

Sure, many of the folks on say Canon Rumors are excited to get a FF camera for $2k or less... but that is a relatively small market.   Most of the world doesn't know what FF is and the sales guy in Best Buy isn't going to have much luck upselling from a 650D to a 6D because "it has a FF sensor".

Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: brianleighty on September 16, 2012, 03:13:43 PM
So will be tonight around midnight EST?   Hope the 6D is crap... so I won't feel bad about my 5D2.  I don't want to get laughed at and ridiculed when out in public.  People with modern cameras already laugh when they see the outdated CF cards I still use and don't even have an articulating LCD.  It's embarrassing.
Then they don't know what they're talking & laughing about...  ::)
+1 I think compact flash makes you look more professional than SD cards.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Wahoowa on September 16, 2012, 03:16:19 PM
Hope to see a really innovative canon 6D like the Nikon D600! :)

Articulated screen, built-in time-lapse, built in flash ecc

PLEASE NO a stupid touch screen

+1

You and I think alike. I will only find the new 6D useful if it's in a compact size and comes with flipped screen & built-in flash. Built-in time lapse would be nice. But the most important is good AF and has MA.

This will be a perfect backup to my 5D3.

For anyone thinking of a 6D over a 5D3, it will be disappointing if there's no MA but that would certainly be a good feature to leave out in order to position this body sufficiently below the 5D3.   Yes, I know the 7D has MA but other than the FF sensor the specs of this body are all below the 7D so they could get away with leaving MA out.

If you shoot with a 5D3 now and use flash then you must have external flashes already... why then would you be so interested in a pop-up flash on a 6D as a backup to your 5D3?

Yes, I do own external flashes. Right now, 3 600EX-RT's to be exact.

Certainly, there are situations that I could not rug around my gear. And some of those occasions, it's best just to have only one camera and one lens to be as low profile as possible. I used to carry a 60D for that. I really liked the 60D for its compact size and flipped screen, but not having MA was a deal breaker at the end.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: brianleighty on September 16, 2012, 03:16:47 PM
IF 6D would have 11 point AF (cross-type) with center point double cross-type then OK - I will probably get one. If it is just 1 cross-type point - 5D Mk II is better for my needs. Fingers crossed !

no problem as long as it's cheap around 1500.
Keep dreaming
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 03:21:34 PM
Hope to see a really innovative canon 6D like the Nikon D600! :)

Articulated screen, built-in time-lapse, built in flash ecc

PLEASE NO a stupid touch screen

+1

You and I think alike. I will only find the new 6D useful if it's in a compact size and comes with flipped screen & built-in flash. Built-in time lapse would be nice. But the most important is good AF and has MA.

This will be a perfect backup to my 5D3.

For anyone thinking of a 6D over a 5D3, it will be disappointing if there's no MA but that would certainly be a good feature to leave out in order to position this body sufficiently below the 5D3.   Yes, I know the 7D has MA but other than the FF sensor the specs of this body are all below the 7D so they could get away with leaving MA out.

If you shoot with a 5D3 now and use flash then you must have external flashes already... why then would you be so interested in a pop-up flash on a 6D as a backup to your 5D3?

Yes, I do own external flashes. Right now, 3 600EX-RT's to be exact.

Certainly, there are situations that I could could not rug around my gear. And some of those occasions, it's best just to have only one camera and one lens to be as low profile as possible. I used to carry a 60D for that. I really liked the 60D for its compact size and flipped screen, but not having MA was a deal breaker at the end.

Ok, fair enough.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: ecka on September 16, 2012, 03:24:06 PM
Get ready for $2500 MSRP ;) .

A $2500 MSRP would mean a €2500 MSRP price in Europe. That would be a NON-competitive price. For 400 euro more, you can get the 5D MKIII. It just does not make sense unless it is the opening price that needs to go down with at least 600 euro but only after 4 to 6 months. By then, most may have saved the money to buy the 5D MKIII

5D3 is $3500 MSRP, regardless of the actual retail prices. I think it is logical to assume that the retail price of this rumored poor-man's 5D would be lower than it's MSRP as well. The old 5D2 is $2200 MSRP, but you can get it for $1899 from amazon (atm). If 6D was $2000 MSRP and even lower retail price, then who is going to buy either 5D3 or 7D2 (which should be near $1900 MSRP) ?? Not me! :D

Currently, the only reason to buy a 7D over a 60D or 5D2 is for the speed, AF, etc. for sports shooting... and those benefits will still exist over this alleged 6D.   So (as I said above) I see it the other way around... who will buy the 6D over a 5D3 or 7D?   Yes of course some will buy it... if you don't shoot sports, and don't need the advanced features of a 5D3, and understand the IQ advantage of FF over a crop (eg. 60/650D)... then this 6D is perfect... but how many consumers fit into that category?  You do, and so do many people on this site.... but that is a small slice of the market Canon needs to hit to make decent sales volume.

Sorry, I see no logic in that. I think there are many more not-so-rich enthusiast photographers (like me, perhaps :) ) than sport/action PROs. I did buy 7D a few years ago, but not for the fps or a bit better sensor (going from 500D). I couldn't afford 5D2 back then and I liked 7D AF system, rugged body, CF slot (I was going to upgrade to 5D series anyway, so I didn't want to waste $ on SD for 60D), AFMA (for my 2 Sigmas), wireless flash control, good battery, ergonomics ... and I still think that 7D is one of the best Canon DSLR in history.
IMHO, most of us would buy 6D for less than $2000 over 5D3 or 7D2. 4.5fps is not that slow ;)

Right, I agree... there is a market (e.g. you and people like you) but I'm questioning the size of that market.  I didn't suggest there are more sports shooters than non-sports shooters.   And we don't need to consider "rich people" because they are a narrow slice of any market as well (depending how you define rich but perhaps we can agree there are few people with so much money that they wank into a store and say give me the most expensive camera you have).   $2k is no small potatoes for a body so the purchaser typically has a reason to plunk down that kind of cash... so what is the reason in the case of a 6D?

Assume any 1-series body are out of the question due to price and price is an issue... and consider the choices you face:

6D vs 5D3:  5D3 is $1400 more but if you need the features of the "pro features" of the 5D3 then 6D is not even in your sights

6D vs. 7D:  If you are into sports, wildlife, etc. 7D is the better choice for a few reasons (debatable of course)

6D vs. 60/650D:  Price difference is $1200 bucks for same features other than sensor size and most consumers out there are not acutely aware of the IQ benefits of the FF sensor.

So, the typical purchaser of a 6D would be someone who does not need the pro features of a 5D3, does not shoot much sports/wildlife, and is aware of the IQ advantage of FF and willing to pay extra $1200 for it (not to mention the investment in lenses to realize that IQ advantage).

Sure, many of the folks on say Canon Rumors are excited to get a FF camera for $2k or less... but that is a relatively small market.   Most of the world doesn't know what FF is and the sales guy in Best Buy isn't going to have much luck upselling from a 650D to a 6D because "it has a FF sensor".

Actually, I know many photographers who are using 5D2 for sports, wildlife, photojournalism and they'd never touch a crop camera like 7D, purely because of the IQ difference, but they would appreciate a smaller, lighter and cheaper body with better AF system.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: witeken on September 16, 2012, 03:39:42 PM
No SX50?
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: theyapici on September 16, 2012, 03:52:35 PM
yeah if it will be better than 5ds af and metering system alsa better iso i will buy a new canon 6d and sell my 60d
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 04:03:09 PM
Actually, I know many photographers who are using 5D2 for sports, wildlife, photojournalism and they'd never touch a crop camera like 7D, purely because of the IQ difference, but they would appreciate a smaller, lighter and cheaper body with better AF system.

Are you somehow offended that I'm wondering how big is the market potential of a camera that happens appeals to you so you have to defend by saying you know "many" photographers using the 5D2 for sports... what is many?  5?  10?  20?  Of course there are some people using every device for any given purpose.  I'm talking about market potential...  thousands and thousands of units.  And I'm wondering what the typical profile of 6D customer will be and how common that will be by thinking of how the 6D lines up against the other Canon bodies in terms of features vs. price vs. intended use.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: whatta on September 16, 2012, 04:26:12 PM
Excuse me for saying this, but where the !@#$% are the 60D and 7D replacements?  Sheesh!

I am also waiting for the 70d (mini 7d with a less noisy sensor) ;)
if not coming soon I will be forced to buy a 650d  :o
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: ecka on September 16, 2012, 04:39:06 PM
Actually, I know many photographers who are using 5D2 for sports, wildlife, photojournalism and they'd never touch a crop camera like 7D, purely because of the IQ difference, but they would appreciate a smaller, lighter and cheaper body with better AF system.

Are you somehow offended that I'm wondering how big is the market potential of a camera that happens appeals to you so you have to defend by saying you know "many" photographers using the 5D2 for sports... what is many?  5?  10?  20?  Of course there are some people using every device for any given purpose.  I'm talking about market potential...  thousands and thousands of units.  And I'm wondering what the typical profile of 6D customer will be and how common that will be by thinking of how the 6D lines up against the other Canon bodies in terms of features vs. price vs. intended use.

I'm not offended, really :). I'm just stating my position and trying to explain why I think so ;).
There are reasons why people prefer 5D2 over other more or less expensive bodies. I'm just saying that when it comes to APS-C vs FF for the same price, many would choose FF even if it was slower (fps) and had less AF points. While such smaller/lighter and cheaper FF body may be very attractive even for 5D3 owners and many of them would be happy to trade their 5D3 for 6D+$1000 (if such camera turns out to be a real). Not to mention the $1500 difference predicted by others :).
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: DzPhotography on September 16, 2012, 04:48:36 PM
Excuse me for saying this, but where the !@#$% are the 60D and 7D replacements?  Sheesh!

I am also waiting for the 70d (mini 7d with a less noisy sensor) ;)
if not coming soon I will be forced to buy a 650d  :o
Not true imho. 7D now is as noisy as 60D = 550D...
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Lee Jay on September 16, 2012, 05:21:51 PM
Excuse me for saying this, but where the !@#$% are the 60D and 7D replacements?  Sheesh!

No need... those bodies still rock.

My long-discontinued T2i has a feature I used all the time that the 7D lacks - video crop mode.  So does the 60D.

The 5D3/1Dx AF system need to be adapted to a new high-end crop body, hopefully with f/8 AF and with flexible video crop modes.  A new and improved sensor would also be nice.

I shot my 50,000th shot with my 20D today, and I'll be keeping that until Canon decides that an improved 7D is worth their time.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: whatta on September 16, 2012, 05:26:24 PM
Excuse me for saying this, but where the !@#$% are the 60D and 7D replacements?  Sheesh!

I am also waiting for the 70d (mini 7d with a less noisy sensor) ;)
if not coming soon I will be forced to buy a 650d  :o
Not true imho. 7D now is as noisy as 60D = 550D...
what is not true? sorry, I did not get your point.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 05:51:01 PM
Excuse me for saying this, but where the !@#$% are the 60D and 7D replacements?  Sheesh!

I am also waiting for the 70d (mini 7d with a less noisy sensor) ;)
if not coming soon I will be forced to buy a 650d  :o
Not true imho. 7D now is as noisy as 60D = 550D...

Of course the 7D is as noisy as the 60D... it uses the same sensor.  But if a 70D (or 7D2) is announced it will likely have a new sensor which could possibly be less noisy but that's all speculation.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 06:00:12 PM
Excuse me for saying this, but where the !@#$% are the 60D and 7D replacements?  Sheesh!

No need... those bodies still rock.

My long-discontinued T2i has a feature I used all the time that the 7D lacks - video crop mode.  So does the 60D.

The 5D3/1Dx AF system need to be adapted to a new high-end crop body, hopefully with f/8 AF and with flexible video crop modes.  A new and improved sensor would also be nice.

I shot my 50,000th shot with my 20D today, and I'll be keeping that until Canon decides that an improved 7D is worth their time.

Don't know much about DSLR video but to my understanding video crop mode is pretty much a crutch feature... the resulting low-res video cropped from the centre of the frame is a weak replacement for a longer lens or moving closer.   So, no wonder it's not in the 7D or higher.  But again, I don't know much about video so... perhaps I'm wrong.

Not sure what you mean by adapting the 1DX AF to a crop body.   The 7D already has stellar AF comparable to the 1D4.   And until the 1DX gets f/8 AF don't count on it in a 7D replacement.

A 20D is great body... if you were shooting sports though there is no comparison to the 7D... better comparison is to the 60D and then, sure, you may not want the upgrade.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 06:26:42 PM
Actually, I know many photographers who are using 5D2 for sports, wildlife, photojournalism and they'd never touch a crop camera like 7D, purely because of the IQ difference, but they would appreciate a smaller, lighter and cheaper body with better AF system.

Are you somehow offended that I'm wondering how big is the market potential of a camera that happens appeals to you so you have to defend by saying you know "many" photographers using the 5D2 for sports... what is many?  5?  10?  20?  Of course there are some people using every device for any given purpose.  I'm talking about market potential...  thousands and thousands of units.  And I'm wondering what the typical profile of 6D customer will be and how common that will be by thinking of how the 6D lines up against the other Canon bodies in terms of features vs. price vs. intended use.

I'm not offended, really :). I'm just stating my position and trying to explain why I think so ;).
There are reasons why people prefer 5D2 over other more or less expensive bodies. I'm just saying that when it comes to APS-C vs FF for the same price, many would choose FF even if it was slower (fps) and had less AF points. While such smaller/lighter and cheaper FF body may be very attractive even for 5D3 owners and many of them would be happy to trade their 5D3 for 6D+$1000 (if such camera turns out to be a real). Not to mention the $1500 difference predicted by others :).

Well then I don't get it... I'm talking about the market size potential of the alleged 6D and you're only responding that it'll be a good camera and some people will buy it.  I don't dispute that it'll be a great camera or that some people will buy it.

So you're saying that if there was a FF for the same price as an APS-C many would choose the FF.  Yep, your're right... but it's not going to be the same price, it'll be $1200 more than the top end Rebel and will be $700 more than a 7D for less performance... other than the IQ of the sensor... and that's my point... that's the only reason to buy it over a Rebel or 7D but to how many people will it be worth the extra money.   Don't think about it in terms of yourself or any Canon Rumors member... everyone that spends any time on here is already an "enthusiast" and an advanced photography consumer compared to the millions that walk into Best Buy and pick up a Rebel.

Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: mirekti on September 16, 2012, 06:49:45 PM

Does anybody know at what time Canon will make an announcement? I couldn't find anything on their webpage.
I hope it'll be before 8AM in Germany so I can fall asleep before 2AM EST  ;)
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 06:55:45 PM

Does anybody know at what time Canon will make an announcement? I couldn't find anything on their webpage.
I hope it'll be before 8AM in Germany so I can fall asleep before 2AM EST  ;)

Late-morning Japan time so around mid-night EST
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: dr croubie on September 16, 2012, 07:54:36 PM
Well it's 930am Aussie Time, so should be about the same Japan Time.
Where's my announcements?
seeing as i've already said I don't care about 6D, i'm wondering what else to care about. I'll never afford a 200-400, although i'd like to play 'guess-the-price-Bingo'
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 08:11:58 PM
Well it's 930am Aussie Time, so should be about the same Japan Time.
Where's my announcements?
seeing as i've already said I don't care about 6D, i'm wondering what else to care about. I'll never afford a 200-400, although i'd like to play 'guess-the-price-Bingo'

Hey Doc, if you woke up at 4:30am then sure 9:30am is late morning... for the rest of late morning is 11am or even noon :D

I'm interested in the S110... maybe it'll be FF
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: powershot2012 on September 16, 2012, 08:17:09 PM
Me too, but only if Canon has a sensor larger than 1/1.7"; otherwise the RX100 is getting my purchase.


I'm interested in the S110... maybe it'll be FF
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: ecka on September 16, 2012, 08:18:09 PM
Actually, I know many photographers who are using 5D2 for sports, wildlife, photojournalism and they'd never touch a crop camera like 7D, purely because of the IQ difference, but they would appreciate a smaller, lighter and cheaper body with better AF system.

Are you somehow offended that I'm wondering how big is the market potential of a camera that happens appeals to you so you have to defend by saying you know "many" photographers using the 5D2 for sports... what is many?  5?  10?  20?  Of course there are some people using every device for any given purpose.  I'm talking about market potential...  thousands and thousands of units.  And I'm wondering what the typical profile of 6D customer will be and how common that will be by thinking of how the 6D lines up against the other Canon bodies in terms of features vs. price vs. intended use.

I'm not offended, really :). I'm just stating my position and trying to explain why I think so ;).
There are reasons why people prefer 5D2 over other more or less expensive bodies. I'm just saying that when it comes to APS-C vs FF for the same price, many would choose FF even if it was slower (fps) and had less AF points. While such smaller/lighter and cheaper FF body may be very attractive even for 5D3 owners and many of them would be happy to trade their 5D3 for 6D+$1000 (if such camera turns out to be a real). Not to mention the $1500 difference predicted by others :).

Well then I don't get it... I'm talking about the market size potential of the alleged 6D and you're only responding that it'll be a good camera and some people will buy it.  I don't dispute that it'll be a great camera or that some people will buy it.

So you're saying that if there was a FF for the same price as an APS-C many would choose the FF.  Yep, your're right... but it's not going to be the same price, it'll be $1200 more than the top end Rebel and will be $700 more than a 7D for less performance... other than the IQ of the sensor... and that's my point... that's the only reason to buy it over a Rebel or 7D but to how many people will it be worth the extra money.   Don't think about it in terms of yourself or any Canon Rumors member... everyone that spends any time on here is already an "enthusiast" and an advanced photography consumer compared to the millions that walk into Best Buy and pick up a Rebel.

Let me remind you that the starting argument was about 6D MSRP, which I think should be around $2500. It would be $1000 cheaper than 5D3 and $600 more than the expected 7D replacement ($1900). You can't have a new FF DSLR for cheap, not yet. Now, why are you comparing 6D with a Rebel?
Quote
...other than the IQ of the sensor... and that's my point... that's the only reason to buy it over a Rebel...
That's ridiculous. Compare it with something that's at least weather-sealed + some other "pro features". With FF you are not getting twice the camera, but you are getting twice the picture (2.5 times to be exact). So, 2.5 x 4.5fps is actually more than 1 x 8fps ;D. I may be wrong, but I think that $2100 MSRP is just a wishful thinking. Just like $1500 D600 with 16bit sensor in it  :P.
If your position is like - 6D must be $2100 or less, otherwise 5D3 or 7D would be a better camera, because you think that most people are more interested in speed than IQ and that's the politics of the market - then good luck ;). I'm gonna get some sleep now.

Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 08:30:33 PM
@Ecka... you don't get it.  You're far too interested in your own point of view to have a discussion... I'm asking a question how large do people think the market for the 6D will be (with the rumored specs and price) and you respond to me over and over with the same point that it's a good camera which I've agreed.   If the 6D comes out at $2500 then my point is even more valid than if it is $2100 which I am basing my point on.

And I'm not comparing the 6D to a Rebel per se... I'm imagining what customer in the market will choose this camera over the existing options just up and down the line from where this body will sit... for example top-end rebel, 7D, 5D3.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Lee Jay on September 16, 2012, 08:50:39 PM
Don't know much about DSLR video but to my understanding video crop mode is pretty much a crutch feature... the resulting low-res video cropped from the centre of the frame is a weak replacement for a longer lens or moving closer.

First of all, moving closer is a bit of an impossibility when shooting planetary photography.  Second, remember, it's basically 7x.  When shooting with the 100-400L, what 2800mm lens would you like me to use instead?
Quote
   So, no wonder it's not in the 7D or higher.  But again, I don't know much about video so... perhaps I'm wrong.

Yes, having used it extensively, I'd say you are.

Quote
Not sure what you mean by adapting the 1DX AF to a crop body.   The 7D already has stellar AF comparable to the 1D4.   And until the 1DX gets f/8 AF don't count on it in a 7D replacement.

The 1DX and 5DIII have AF sensors that have received fewer complaints than any system I've seen Canon produce ever, including the 7D.  So adapt it to the high-end crop body.
Quote
A 20D is great body... if you were shooting sports though there is no comparison to the 7D... better comparison is to the 60D and then, sure, you may not want the upgrade.

I was shooting ultra-high speed subjects (R/C aircraft going up to and over 200mph from as close as 40 feet - hard to even turn my body that fast).  The 20D does surprisingly well, but I wouldn't mind a major step up.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 09:16:12 PM
@LeeJay.... Great... enjoy your 20D and it's VGA video crop since you're so partial to it.  To each his own and if it works for you perfect.   But when you figure out that the 7X crop magnification reduces the resolution from 1920x1080 down to 640x480 then you realize that's a 6.75 loss and you are no better off... you've gained nothing.   It's like digital zoom... a consumer product trick.   So, no... it's not a 2800mm equivalent.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Lee Jay on September 16, 2012, 09:29:10 PM
@LeeJay.... Great... enjoy your 20D and it's VGA video crop since you're so partial to it.  To each his own and if it works for you perfect.   But when you figure out that the 7X crop magnification reduces the resolution from 1920x1080 down to 640x480 then you realize that's a 6.75 loss and you are no better off... you've gained nothing.   It's like digital zoom... a consumer product trick.   So, no... it's not a 2800mm equivalent.

No, that's false.

First of all, it's a T2i that has 7x video crop.

The T2i has 5184 horizontal pixels.

Reducing that to 1920x1080 is basically using about 2.7 horizontal pixels for each rendered pixel.  Because of the way Canon does that down-sampling, you actually don't do that well.

With 7x video crop, you are getting 1 exported pixel for each sensor pixel - basically a sharp 100% crop instead of a soft 37% crop.

Ultimately, you end up with at least 3 times more real resolving power with the same lens by using 640x480 video crop versus using 1920x1080 ordinary full HD video, and you get far smaller file sizes which is nice if you don't need the wider view you'd get with a 1920x1080 1:1 video export.  Of course, if you do, it would be nice to have that option as well.  That's why I want "flexible video crop modes".
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 09:36:27 PM
@LeeJay.... Great... enjoy your 20D and it's VGA video crop since you're so partial to it.  To each his own and if it works for you perfect.   But when you figure out that the 7X crop magnification reduces the resolution from 1920x1080 down to 640x480 then you realize that's a 6.75 loss and you are no better off... you've gained nothing.   It's like digital zoom... a consumer product trick.   So, no... it's not a 2800mm equivalent.

No, that's false.

First of all, it's a T2i that has 7x video crop.

The T2i has 5184 horizontal pixels.

Reducing that to 1920x1080 is basically using about 2.7 horizontal pixels for each rendered pixel.  Because of the way Canon does that down-sampling, you actually don't do that well.

With 7x video crop, you are getting 1 exported pixel for each sensor pixel - basically a sharp 100% crop instead of a soft 37% crop.

Ultimately, you end up with at least 3 times more real resolving power with the same lens by using 640x480 video crop versus using 1920x1080 ordinary full HD video, and you get far smaller file sizes which is nice if you don't need the wider view you'd get with a 1920x1080 1:1 video export.  Of course, if you do, it would be nice to have that option as well.  That's why I want "flexible video crop modes".

Well then I apologize for my lack of video knowledge...   so it's 3 X extra reach then not 7 times?   A nice to have feature I'm sure.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Lee Jay on September 16, 2012, 09:51:55 PM
Well then I apologize for my lack of video knowledge...   so it's 3 X extra reach then not 7 times?   A nice to have feature I'm sure.

It's a little over 3x compared to 1080p video, and more like 5x compared to 720p video.

Even so, that's A LOT.  I often use a 100-400L with 1.4x TC III.  That's 560mm real focal length.  With the crop mode, you get the resolving power of an over 1,700mm lens on the 7D with 1080p video.  And when shooting planetary photography, it's essential.  Framing Jupiter requires an equivalent of around 100,000mm depending on time of year.  Even with my 3,800mm telescope, the 1.6 crop factor and the 7x video crop (even if it's only a little over 3x in real resolving power) are the difference between a shot with some detail, and a white dot.

The T3i (I think) has a 3x crop mode for 1080p video.  Nice to be able to triple your real resolving power with the touch of a button.

This is all because of two things - video is low-res and stills are high-res, and video soaks up huge amounts of storage.  If neither of those were the case, we'd just do what we do with still - crop in post if necessary, which is why digital zoom is more-or-less useless (it's nice if you just don't want to take the time to crop in post, but it doesn't actually buy you any real resolving power).  So, as long as we aren't storing all our pixels when shooting video like, say, RED does, video crop modes (called "windowing" often in the video world), are useful.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Meh on September 16, 2012, 10:03:49 PM
Well then I apologize for my lack of video knowledge...   so it's 3 X extra reach then not 7 times?   A nice to have feature I'm sure.

It's a little over 3x compared to 1080p video, and more like 5x compared to 720p video.

Even so, that's A LOT.  I often use a 100-400L with 1.4x TC III.  That's 560mm real focal length.  With the crop mode, you get the resolving power of an over 1,700mm lens on the 7D with 1080p video.  And when shooting planetary photography, it's essential.  Framing Jupiter requires an equivalent of around 100,000mm depending on time of year.  Even with my 3,800mm telescope, the 1.6 crop factor and the 7x video crop (even if it's only a little over 3x in real resolving power) are the difference between a shot with some detail, and a white dot.

The T3i (I think) has a 3x crop mode for 1080p video.  Nice to be able to triple your real resolving power with the touch of a button.

This is all because of two things - video is low-res and stills are high-res, and video soaks up huge amounts of storage.  If neither of those were the case, we'd just do what we do with still - crop in post if necessary, which is why digital zoom is more-or-less useless (it's nice if you just don't want to take the time to crop in post, but it doesn't actually buy you any real resolving power).  So, as long as we aren't storing all our pixels when shooting video like, say, RED does, video crop modes (called "windowing" often in the video world), are useful.

Thanks for the explanation.. and yes, 3 x reach is a lot.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: ecka on September 19, 2012, 07:16:22 AM
@Ecka... you don't get it.  You're far too interested in your own point of view to have a discussion... I'm asking a question how large do people think the market for the 6D will be (with the rumored specs and price) and you respond to me over and over with the same point that it's a good camera which I've agreed.   If the 6D comes out at $2500 then my point is even more valid than if it is $2100 which I am basing my point on.

And I'm not comparing the 6D to a Rebel per se... I'm imagining what customer in the market will choose this camera over the existing options just up and down the line from where this body will sit... for example top-end rebel, 7D, 5D3.

Congratulations, my friend! You've got what you wanted - Rebel/60D~ class FF.
Well, I really wanted it to be 7D~ class FF camera for $2500. Crazy world :-\
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: hambergler on September 19, 2012, 07:34:58 AM
@Ecka... you don't get it.  You're far too interested in your own point of view to have a discussion... I'm asking a question how large do people think the market for the 6D will be (with the rumored specs and price) and you respond to me over and over with the same point that it's a good camera which I've agreed.   If the 6D comes out at $2500 then my point is even more valid than if it is $2100 which I am basing my point on.

And I'm not comparing the 6D to a Rebel per se... I'm imagining what customer in the market will choose this camera over the existing options just up and down the line from where this body will sit... for example top-end rebel, 7D, 5D3.

Congratulations, my friend! You've got what you wanted - Rebel/60D~ class FF.
Well, I really wanted it to be 7D~ class FF camera for $2500. Crazy world :-\

I don't see you have anything to complain about since you can get a 5d mark iii for 2750.

I guarantee another deal will come around between now and the canon 6d release date.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: ecka on September 19, 2012, 08:14:34 AM
@Ecka... you don't get it.  You're far too interested in your own point of view to have a discussion... I'm asking a question how large do people think the market for the 6D will be (with the rumored specs and price) and you respond to me over and over with the same point that it's a good camera which I've agreed.   If the 6D comes out at $2500 then my point is even more valid than if it is $2100 which I am basing my point on.

And I'm not comparing the 6D to a Rebel per se... I'm imagining what customer in the market will choose this camera over the existing options just up and down the line from where this body will sit... for example top-end rebel, 7D, 5D3.

Congratulations, my friend! You've got what you wanted - Rebel/60D~ class FF.
Well, I really wanted it to be 7D~ class FF camera for $2500. Crazy world :-\

I don't see you have anything to complain about since you can get a 5d mark iii for 2750.

I guarantee another deal will come around between now and the canon 6d release date.

I guess, all I have to complain about is that I live in Europe :D.
$2750 for 5D3 is nice, but $1750 for 6D would be nicer ;). I'm not a professional, but I'm more into photography than talking about expensive features I don't need. I think that 5D3 may be an overkill for me and I can't afford it atm. I hate to say this, but D600 is very tempting. I may just sell all may Canon toys, get the D600 with a nice 50/1.4 and wait till 5D3 price comes down (2015?). First I want to see some reviews...
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: Octavian on September 19, 2012, 08:43:31 AM
I guess, all I have to complain about is that I live in Europe :D.
$2750 for 5D3 is nice, but $1750 for 6D would be nicer ;). I'm not a professional, but I'm more into photography than talking about expensive features I don't need. I think that 5D3 may be an overkill for me and I can't afford it atm. I hate to say this, but D600 is very tempting. I may just sell all may Canon toys, get the D600 with a nice 50/1.4 and wait till 5D3 price comes down (2015?). First I want to see some reviews...

My thoughts exactly with the exception of I dont like the Nikon feel or UI.
Title: Re: Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
Post by: ecka on September 19, 2012, 09:09:07 AM
I guess, all I have to complain about is that I live in Europe :D.
$2750 for 5D3 is nice, but $1750 for 6D would be nicer ;). I'm not a professional, but I'm more into photography than talking about expensive features I don't need. I think that 5D3 may be an overkill for me and I can't afford it atm. I hate to say this, but D600 is very tempting. I may just sell all may Canon toys, get the D600 with a nice 50/1.4 and wait till 5D3 price comes down (2015?). First I want to see some reviews...

My thoughts exactly with the exception of I dont like the Nikon feel or UI.

I don't like many things about Nikon - UI, ergonomics (backward lens mounting, backward zooming, backward focusing, grip, button layout), lack of aperture control in LiveView, possible green LCD tint :), customer service, no free image editing software, more expensive higher grade lenses, arrogant fanboys. That may take some getting used to :D