canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on May 02, 2011, 02:57:51 PM

Title: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: Canon Rumors on May 02, 2011, 02:57:51 PM
In the wild? There’s word that Canon is sending out test bodies of the next 5D to various key photographers. Obviously they’ll be under a veil of secrecy. Once this happens, we tend to start getting better information.

There’s a thought the next 5D will not push megapixels, but will in fact push image quality and noise reduction. There will be a lot more sharpness and detail at higher ISO. The 26-28 megapixel range is becoming the resolution I keep getting told.

There is apparently a couple of different prototypes in existence.

What’s for certain is it will have a 19 point AF, no word on how many crosstype sensors.

1Ds Mark IV /  1D Mark V The same person alluded to the merging of the 1D line being sooner than expected. There would need to be some new tech in a  merged 1D to keep the 10fps of the 1D and the resolution of the 1Ds. It should be interesting.

cr

Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: neuroanatomist on May 02, 2011, 03:06:50 PM
There’s word...

What sort of word?  CR1-word?  CR3-word?
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: thien135 on May 02, 2011, 03:15:05 PM
release the darn camera already !! >:(
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: skitron on May 02, 2011, 03:21:28 PM
release the darn camera already !! >:(

LOL, my money is allocated and ready sprout wings as soon as they do release it!
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: razbo on May 02, 2011, 03:33:31 PM
Funny that, I was actually speaking to a guy in Jacobs,
 and he told me canon tend to give photographers new cameras to test when a new event is happening, such as the rugby world cup which is happening in September 2011, would it be then when the canon release the 5dmk 3?
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: Velo Steve on May 02, 2011, 03:35:25 PM
Exactly what I wanted to hear!  I'm rarely limited by pixel resolution, but situations with moving subjects in weak light keep coming up.  A couple of stops higher ISO without an increase in noise will have me ordering on the first day possible.

Of course if I could get that in combination with the "frames per second" rate of my 40D, that would be even better.

Steve

Added: the noise reduction needs to start at the sensor.  Just processing it out in the Digic won't cut it.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: docsmith on May 02, 2011, 03:37:52 PM
So, ahhh, what is the average lead time from having selected pros play with a couple different prototypes to actually releasing a camera?  If there are "a couple" of prototypes, then has Canon released specs to suppliers for parts, started work on the production line modifying the tools, etc? 

To give time to incorporate any changes by the selected pros, select a prototype, get all the parts and materials together to manufacture the camera....I am thinking at best, an announcement in late 2011 with the camera not in someones hands until 2012?

Someone tell me if I am off here...and while this is interesting, it actually makes me feel that the 5DIII is further out than I was previously thinking............
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: mogud on May 02, 2011, 03:46:43 PM
I agree - announcement in late 2011 with availability in early 2012.  My timeline for purchasing this camera is end of April 2012.  The 5DIII with the anticipated feature set is exactly what I'm hoping for.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: fernando on May 02, 2011, 04:24:56 PM
This means the 'mid-year' announcement is now out of the cards right? Approximately how long does it take from photographers getting prototypes to the release date?

Anyone know how long it took with the Mark II?   
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: Lawliet on May 02, 2011, 04:27:25 PM
So, ahhh, what is the average lead time from having selected pros play with a couple different prototypes to actually releasing a camera?  If there are "a couple" of prototypes, then has Canon released specs to suppliers for parts, started work on the production line modifying the tools, etc? 

To give time to incorporate any changes by the selected pros, select a prototype, get all the parts and materials together to manufacture the camera....

At that stage the hardware is more or less fixed. You don't add a button or change specs radically because someone tells you it would be nice or something.  If you need to replace a chip or PCB to iron out a kink you have about a month until you're back up to production volume(think of the flawed USB-port Intel had to deal with), but even thats not what a field test is for.
User feedback would be mainly for details of the behavior, things that are done via firmware.

If they start now and conclude  trials by july, they could ramp up production by the mid of summer and have everything ready for a september release with widespread availability.
Thats if they want to release at the time.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: neuroanatomist on May 02, 2011, 04:28:34 PM
So, ahhh, what is the average lead time from having selected pros play with a couple different prototypes to actually releasing ............

There were reportedly copies of a refreshed 24-70mm (IS?) 'in the wild' nearly two years ago.  So maybe the average lead time is infinity?
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: traveller on May 02, 2011, 04:46:01 PM
So no other specs other than 26-28MP and 19 AF points? Well, the former doesn't sound bad, the latter...

To be honest the AF system from the 7D would probably be enough for most users (myself included).  It would be nice to have AF points that cover a similar area of viewfinder as on the 7D; see this comparison:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&message=29662257&q=viewfinder+af+point+coverage+comparison&qf=m).

I can see that Canon is paranoid that raising the bar with the 5D MkIII too high may poach sales of the 1D series, but the questions they should be asking themselves are where are Nikon going with the D800 and what will Sony next move with full frame be?

Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: gene_can_sing on May 02, 2011, 06:48:09 PM
5D3 will be released sooner than later, IMO. 2012 will be too long.

Remember, the last iteration of and Digic 4 came out in September of 2007. That's almost 4 years ago. Canon MISSED their 3 year cycle update of the 1D and the 3 year cycle of the 5D is coming up in September.

5D2 was released 3 years ago in September of 2008. Canon cannot miss 2 product cycles in a row.

Canon is not looking good right now and they need to hit back and release something soon and it better be good.

It has to be sooner than later because they have been lagging on so much stuff lately, and the moire / video problems are so pronounced right now, that they stand to lose a lot of video people to Sony and Panasonic who are making some solid video products already release or to be released in June and July.

And yes, a LOT of people use the 5D mainly for video. That's one of the main reasons why it was such a huge seller in the first place
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: akiskev on May 02, 2011, 06:53:21 PM
5D MKiii with DigicV is coming!!!
Hooray!
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: NXT1000 on May 02, 2011, 07:19:52 PM
please please please canon fix the focus system.
everytime i return home from a shoot with 5d2
i see many out of focus shots, some of them have no reason to be out of focus, except for the whim of canon5d2 focus system.
I will bang my head on the wall if they do not improve focus on 5d series.

but when it is in focus, it is so good.

i will not get it for first half a year of release or until they have the review of 1ds4, 5d3 production problem need to be solved first, if spec of 1ds4 is much superior, then i have to decide what to do. But i am waiting for info about 5d3 with bated breath.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: Justin on May 02, 2011, 10:23:10 PM
If sharpness is the goal, does that mean no more AA filter?

Weakened AA filter would work for me.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: distant.star on May 02, 2011, 11:12:16 PM
"Key" photographers?

Wow, I'm going to start checking out locksmith shops. Maybe I'll see one.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: asu on May 03, 2011, 01:12:57 AM
its all about waiting...
canon is waiting to see nikon d800 specs, in the other hand nikon is waiting for new full frame sensor from sony.
hahaha   ::)
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: torger on May 03, 2011, 01:29:15 AM
If 5Dmk3 will hav 26-28 megapixels and the next 1D ~40, it will be a difficult choice for me. 1D will surely be rather expensive in relation to my amateur budget, but probably within reach if I stretch it.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: J-Man on May 03, 2011, 01:53:46 AM
This is what I hope the next round of bodies improve on, larger dynamic range, less noise at all ISO's, larger view finders, Lcd's with pixel densities of the iphone4, autofocus that works faster and more accurately(both types), pro quality  on all XD bodies with full weather sealing.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: Wahoowa on May 03, 2011, 04:08:48 AM
It's good to hear that Canon will not increase resolution by much and now concentrate on image quality and noise reduction. However, I don't think 19-point AF will make an exciting impact like 5D2 did, especially compared to the AF system by Nikon.

I just hope that Canon will get everything right to satisfy their followers.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: airdima on May 03, 2011, 04:49:51 AM
the least i would expect in 5D III is improved focus system coupled with 7D weather sealing
i dont think that pushing the sensor resolution further is a good idea. better concentrate on noise reduction that would get canon in line with nikon flagships (at the very least)
also, wireless flash control would be VERY nice to have

either way, i dont see myself upgrading from my 5DII right away, as for now it works fine for roughly 95% of my needs
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: Kim on May 03, 2011, 06:07:04 AM
Someone should hit up Vincent LaForet to hear if it is good :D
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: torger on May 03, 2011, 06:18:14 AM
All this talk about noise reduction, what is this? Is it only about reducing noise in camera JPEGs? To me that is next to meaningless, I shoot RAW only and rely on noise reduction in RAW development software. However, read noise reduction at low ISO would be welcome to me. But is there much you can do at high ISO any longer? Read noise at high ISO seems low to me already on the newest sensors. Isn't nearly all noise in typical high ISO pictures just unavoidable photon shot noise?

And as far as I've understood there's no law of physics that says that larger pixels will lead to less noise, so you could combine high megapixel count with low noise, historically it has indeed been tough, but it seems to me that with newer sensors the problem has become smaller and smaller. A higher resolution picture will of course look more noisy at 100% crop due to more photon shot noise per pixel, but when averaged/binned it's the same as for larger pixels. If you're only going to shoot high ISO I guess it makes little sense to have high megapixel count since you'd want to average/bin them anyway for noise reduction. However, I guess for many of us that do 90% of the photos at minimum ISO, a large pixel count is welcome, resolution is indeed a key aspect of image quality.

One aspect that I'm a bit unsure of is the quantum efficiency, perhaps there's stuff to do in that part? QE = how many of the incoming photons that actually become registered by the sensor. If that can be significantly increased, there will be a true improvement for low light shooting. I've heard that it's around 40% of today's sensors, not sure if it's correct though. If it is, there's ~1 stop improvement to do there.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: NormanBates on May 03, 2011, 07:37:12 AM
canon 60d seen in the wild: August 11, 2010
canon 60d released: August 25, 2010
http://www.canonrumors.com/2010/08/canon-eos-60d-picture/
http://www.canonrumors.com/2010/08/canon-announces-eos-60d/
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: J-Man on May 03, 2011, 07:47:27 AM
In body jpg are useless to me, way too easy to blow highlights, the noise reduction I'm referring to is everything from the sensor, through the signal amps, the AD conversion, and then signal processing(de-Bayer).
Any improvement in noise reduction is welcome, any banding is unforgivable.

The size of the pixels are becoming less of an issue with each generation, I'm more concerned with the balance that Canon has been choosing the last few generations of sensors between pixel density and per pixel noise, the 1DsII & 5D were the last of the conservative designs IMO.


Quote
canon 60d seen in the wild: August 11, 2010
canon 60d released: August 25, 2010

That could be an early production sample test, vs a release candidate test, very different in terms of how long to maket.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: skitron on May 03, 2011, 10:03:33 AM
In body jpg are useless to me...the noise reduction I'm referring to is everything from the sensor, through the signal amps, the AD conversion, and then signal processing(de-Bayer).

+1
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: c.d.embrey on May 03, 2011, 10:45:37 AM

I can see that Canon is paranoid that raising the bar with the 5D MkIII too high may poach sales of the 1D series, but the questions they should be asking themselves are where are Nikon going with the D800 and what will Sony next move with full frame be?

Why should Canon be paranoid ? Make no sense ! Nikon provides the same focus and metering on all their pro cameras (D300S, D700, D3S and D3X) and seem to have no "poaching" problem. Crippled is a word seldom seen on Nikon forums.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: thejoyofsobe on May 03, 2011, 11:17:33 AM

I can see that Canon is paranoid that raising the bar with the 5D MkIII too high may poach sales of the 1D series, but the questions they should be asking themselves are where are Nikon going with the D800 and what will Sony next move with full frame be?

Why should Canon be paranoid ? Make no sense ! Nikon provides the same focus and metering on all their pro cameras (D300S, D700, D3S and D3X) and seem to have no "poaching" problem. Crippled is a word seldom seen on Nikon forums.
moreover if we are to believe the latest rumors the 1D series is merging and there will be no more APS-H sensors.

For professionals Canon would have:
1D mk5 - weather-sealed, excellent fps, full-frame, 45 pts AF
5D mk3 - not weather-sealed, decent fps, full-frame, 19 pts AF
7D - not weather-sealed, excellent fps, APS-C, 19 pts AF


Currently Canon is selling 5 cameras in that range (4 active models) so the distinctions were a little fuzzier for consumers who wanted a bigger sensor than an APS-C. Retrenching that back down to three professional grade cameras should help them focus their efforts more on making better cameras and meeting the needs of those distinct markets.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: Panurus on May 03, 2011, 11:40:05 AM

I can see that Canon is paranoid that raising the bar with the 5D MkIII too high may poach sales of the 1D series, but the questions they should be asking themselves are where are Nikon going with the D800 and what will Sony next move with full frame be?

Why should Canon be paranoid ? Make no sense ! Nikon provides the same focus and metering on all their pro cameras (D300S, D700, D3S and D3X) and seem to have no "poaching" problem. Crippled is a word seldom seen on Nikon forums.
moreover if we are to believe the latest rumors the 1D series is merging and there will be no more APS-H sensors.

For professionals Canon would have:
1D mk5 - weather-sealed, excellent fps, full-frame, 45 pts AF
5D mk3 - not weather-sealed, decent fps, full-frame, 19 pts AF
7D - not weather-sealed, excellent fps, APS-C, 19 pts AF


Currently Canon is selling 5 cameras in that range (4 active models) so the distinctions were a little fuzzier for consumers who wanted a bigger sensor than an APS-C. Retrenching that back down to three professional grade cameras should help them focus their efforts more on making better cameras and meeting the needs of those distinct markets.


A 1DS with 10fps, why not. I can dream to use it and I will by it for different use that my 1DmkIV.

Which is the difficulty for Canon to place an APS-H captor in the 1Ds body? None.
The Canon APS-H CMOS  120 M pixels (13280 x 9184) looks like the future of the 1D line.
The main part of the job is already done.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: neuroanatomist on May 03, 2011, 11:40:30 AM
7D - not weather-sealed, excellent fps, APS-C, 19 pts AF

Canon disagrees.

Quote from: Canon USA website, 7D overview
The EOS 7D features a magnesium alloy body that is dust- and weather-resistant and shutter durability of up to 150,000 cycles.  (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d)
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: thejoyofsobe on May 03, 2011, 12:26:47 PM
7D - not weather-sealed, excellent fps, APS-C, 19 pts AF

Canon disagrees.

Quote from: Canon USA website, 7D overview
The EOS 7D features a magnesium alloy body that is dust- and weather-resistant and shutter durability of up to 150,000 cycles.  (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d)
resistant <> sealed

http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00Vq2m
"The 7D is not a weather sealed camera. It should not under any
circumstance get wet. It may survive some rain, however, there are no
guarantees. If you need a camera with weather seals you should look
into our EOS 1 series cameras."
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: EYEONE on May 03, 2011, 12:36:18 PM
7D - not weather-sealed, excellent fps, APS-C, 19 pts AF

Canon disagrees.

Quote from: Canon USA website, 7D overview
The EOS 7D features a magnesium alloy body that is dust- and weather-resistant and shutter durability of up to 150,000 cycles.  (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d)
resistant <> sealed

http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00Vq2m
"The 7D is not a weather sealed camera. It should not under any
circumstance get wet. It may survive some rain, however, there are no
guarantees. If you need a camera with weather seals you should look
into our EOS 1 series cameras."

http://canonfieldreviews.com/7d-1-weather-sealing/

Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: HughHowey on May 03, 2011, 01:12:03 PM
7D - not weather-sealed, excellent fps, APS-C, 19 pts AF

Canon disagrees.

Quote from: Canon USA website, 7D overview
The EOS 7D features a magnesium alloy body that is dust- and weather-resistant and shutter durability of up to 150,000 cycles.  (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d)
resistant <> sealed

http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00Vq2m
"The 7D is not a weather sealed camera. It should not under any
circumstance get wet. It may survive some rain, however, there are no
guarantees. If you need a camera with weather seals you should look
into our EOS 1 series cameras."

http://canonfieldreviews.com/7d-1-weather-sealing/

In one of those pics, a seal is about to bite a tripod! Awesome shot. And great review. Anyone saying the 7D isn't weather sealed after reading this is out of their minds!

Edit: After reading the comments, however, I might be out of MY mind! Some mixed results, it seems.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: neuroanatomist on May 03, 2011, 01:19:08 PM
7D - not weather-sealed, excellent fps, APS-C, 19 pts AF

Canon disagrees.

Quote from: Canon USA website, 7D overview
The EOS 7D features a magnesium alloy body that is dust- and weather-resistant and shutter durability of up to 150,000 cycles.  (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d)
resistant <> sealed

http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00Vq2m
"The 7D is not a weather sealed camera. It should not under any
circumstance get wet. It may survive some rain, however, there are no
guarantees. If you need a camera with weather seals you should look
into our EOS 1 series cameras."

From the same link you posted, also stated in Canon's response: "The EOS 1 series cameras and certain L series lenses do offer weather seals. These seals do not make the equipment water resistant or water proof. "

If you look Features sections for bodies on Canon's website, they use the same language for the sealing on the 1D IV and the 7D: "...exclusive dust and weather resistance."  Certainly, the sealing on the 1-series is better.  But, if Canon supposedly stated (in a response from someone in their email support department) that the 7D does not have weather sealing, why does Canon publish a graphic showing the sealing of the 7D?

(http://www.usa.canon.com/CUSA/assets/app/images/EOS_2009/7D/features/7d_feature_08a.jpg)

The 7D is not a 1-series body, no one is claiming that (at least, I'm not).  But to state that 7D is not weather-sealed is misleading, IMO.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: thejoyofsobe on May 03, 2011, 02:45:45 PM
i've seen the Antarctic post before but I've also read other anecdotes of people killing their 7D body in non-torrential rainfall (and it wasn't because of an unsealed lens but lack of gaskets) only to have Canon service say tough luck the camera is not weather sealed. the 7D's resistance to weather is better than the XXD series but it's not the kind of camera which can dependably handle a certain level of abuse like the 1D series. that's fine because the majority of people don't need that level of ruggedness, hence why i used weather-sealing as a way to distinguish the bodies above.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: neuroanatomist on May 03, 2011, 03:38:22 PM
I've also read other anecdotes of people killing their 7D body in non-torrential rainfall ... only to have Canon service say tough luck the camera is not weather sealed.

I wonder what Canon service would say if water got into a 1-series body?
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: alipaulphotography on May 03, 2011, 05:31:16 PM
Hmm - nikon rumors recently posted that the D800 release has been delayed till October due to Japan disaster. Seems like the two cameras will likely come out around the same time so neither will be able to argue that the other manufacture has 'had more time' or the technology is 'newer' and they are both going to be direct competitors. Seems like the true 'battle of the cameras' is yet to come.

Who has the true 'industry leading' noise handling (or reduction).

Time will tell...
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: Grendel on May 03, 2011, 05:51:25 PM
I wonder what Canon service would say if water got into a 1-series body?

"Submerging the camera is not covered by warranty." ;)
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: Bob Howland on May 04, 2011, 08:17:40 AM
As much as I hate to admit it, I think the 2 May Northlight Images rumor is correct. The "1Ds3 replacement" (perhaps better called the "new professional FF body") won't appear until August and the 5D3 won't appear until next year. Tsunami damage to the supply chain was just too great and everything has been shoved back 6 months. Anything before that is just a pleasant surprise
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: Diko on May 04, 2011, 10:07:59 AM
For professionals Canon would have:
1D mk5 - weather-sealed, excellent fps, full-frame, 45 pts AF
5D mk3 - not weather-sealed, decent fps, full-frame, 19 pts AF
7D - not weather-sealed, excellent fps, APS-C, 19 pts AF

I will quite disagree with that statement as well. Canon is recorded as leader in DSLR sells mainly (IMHO) for the their successful move on cutting on more levels their DSLRs. It was the 5D,  7D and 1000D creation that made them so ahead of the competitors. Everyone around me has one of these or any of the hundreds.

They removed weather sealed body from 60D for unkown to me reason. Since in that way 7D and 60D are very close in features (without the sealing, of course).

I have to agree that from what I have heard from one of the major distributors in my country. Canon is set quite back (along with NIKON, of course) due to supply issues caused by the earthquake.

They can NOT put an official statement, since all other manufactures will push their respecitive DSLRs ahead and will make great financial losses to both Japan companies.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: canon fan29 on May 04, 2011, 01:46:25 PM
is it just me or is canon really disappointing for the time it takes them to update and release newer products. Every time i look at mac rumours, it seems as though theres a lot going on with product updates and new developments with the company etc. and help ways to do new things.
This website all i hear is maybe this date its coming out maybe that date, in 3 months ive been watching this site. Nothing has come out. I know there was the Tsunami in Japan, but Japans not the only place they make canon products, its a large international company it should be releasing more products more frequently than it does. 3 years since the last 5d mark iii. If computers can update yearly why can't cameras?
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: neuroanatomist on May 04, 2011, 01:52:12 PM
its a large international company it should be releasing more products more frequently than it does. 3 years since the last 5d mark iii. If computers can update yearly why can't cameras?

There are new printers announced frequently.  New copiers.  New scanners.  There's a new Rebel/xxxD camera every year.  Every year there are a whole bunch of new PowerShot cameras, often announced twice per year.  Higher-end dSLR models have a longer development time. 
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: NotABunny on May 05, 2011, 04:15:24 AM
Every time i look at mac rumours, it seems as though theres a lot going on with product updates and new developments. If computers can update yearly why can't cameras?

A camera is not a computer. It's primarily an optical device. Increasing processor speed, implementing software multithreading, making a smaller body, adding GPS or 3G capabilities doesn't produce better images.

The people who invest thousands of dollars in cameras and lenses do it in order to take better images.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: John Smith on May 05, 2011, 06:11:43 AM
Every time i look at mac rumours, it seems as though theres a lot going on with product updates and new developments. If computers can update yearly why can't cameras?

A camera is not a computer. It's primarily an optical device. Increasing processor speed, implementing software multithreading, making a smaller body, adding GPS or 3G capabilities doesn't produce better images.

The people who invest thousands of dollars in cameras and lenses do it in order to take better images.

The process doesn't end with taking better images. E.g. images are organized and shared, and here a GPS would help.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: I Simonius on May 05, 2011, 11:08:59 AM
the ONLY update I want is waterproofing. Any other extras would be fine but AFAIC the only thing wrong with my 5D2 is it can't cope with rain etc

And no I don't wanta 1Ds series - they're too heavy!
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: gene_can_sing on May 05, 2011, 11:19:23 AM
its a large international company it should be releasing more products more frequently than it does. 3 years since the last 5d mark iii. If computers can update yearly why can't cameras?

There are new printers announced frequently.  New copiers.  New scanners.  There's a new Rebel/xxxD camera every year.  Every year there are a whole bunch of new PowerShot cameras, often announced twice per year.  Higher-end dSLR models have a longer development time.

Canon can release new products every year and does, except they are just micro-increments of existing cameras (t3i, 60d, 7d, etc). Even the 5D2 is just a branch off of the 1d (last update in 2007).

Apple has to release an update every year because there is so much competition in computers. In cameras, there are only a handful of companies, so competition is fairly light. With that said, Sony and Panasonic (at least video wise) are hungry, and they will eat up Canon in the future if Canon continues to it's current 4 YEAR (yes 4 YEARS!!!) product cycle.

My suggestions is DON'T buy a Canon camera unless you need it, until something new comes out. Only way to get them to release anything.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: willhuff.net on May 05, 2011, 12:12:16 PM
With the speed that technology in general has exponentially increased, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon and Nikon had the ability to make cameras twice as good as they are now, but they have an agreement to hold back because it's more profitable to make a series of upgrades rather than one big one.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: DuLt on May 05, 2011, 12:32:22 PM
With the speed that technology in general has exponentially increased, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon and Nikon had the ability to make cameras twice as good as they are now, but they have an agreement to hold back because it's more profitable to make a series of upgrades rather than one big one.

It's a smart money grubbing move to hold on to your ace's until you know what your oponents have.

Unfortunately, it holds technology and creative evolution also.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: NXT1000 on May 06, 2011, 12:23:52 PM
I know there was the Tsunami in Japan, but Japans not the only place they make canon products, its a large international company it should be releasing more products more frequently than it does. 3 years since the last 5d mark iii. If computers can update yearly why can't cameras?

unlike some other companies, canon believe that the jobs be kept in japan, and high end camera and lens all built in japan, therefore they will hardest hit by earthquake.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: skitron on May 06, 2011, 12:42:48 PM
A camera is not a computer. It's primarily an optical device. Increasing processor speed, implementing software multithreading, making a smaller body, adding GPS or 3G capabilities doesn't produce better images.

Actually it is a computer, just not a very good one...leading folks to shoot RAW (fortunately this is an option) and using a good computer and good software to process the data into the nicest image possible. Digic5 should be better though, primarily thru increased processor speed so it can run higher quality code for NR and jpeg operations and still get a good framerate.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: zerotiu on May 06, 2011, 12:48:07 PM
I think I still believe that Canon can release 5d3 sooner. The delay news is just a marketing trick to deplete the previous version of camera. Because we are talking about the Japan industries, they are strong, smart, and rellable. That's what I believe from them  ;)
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: HughHowey on May 06, 2011, 01:00:40 PM
the ONLY update I want is waterproofing. Any other extras would be fine but AFAIC the only thing wrong with my 5D2 is it can't cope with rain etc

And no I don't wanta 1Ds series - they're too heavy!

The gaskets are made of lead, apparently.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: neuroanatomist on May 06, 2011, 01:09:21 PM
I think I still believe that Canon can release 5d3 sooner. The delay news is just a marketing trick to deplete the previous version of camera. Because we are talking about the Japan industries, they are strong, smart, and rellable. That's what I believe from them  ;)

Rolling blackouts and a nuclear disaster 100 miles from Canon's L-lens plant are marketing tricks?  Don't tell that to the aliens living at Area 51, or they might think it's a conspiracy theory...
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: zerotiu on May 06, 2011, 01:25:20 PM
I think I still believe that Canon can release 5d3 sooner. The delay news is just a marketing trick to deplete the previous version of camera. Because we are talking about the Japan industries, they are strong, smart, and rellable. That's what I believe from them  ;)

Rolling blackouts and a nuclear disaster 100 miles from Canon's L-lens plant are marketing tricks?  Don't tell that to the aliens living at Area 51, or they might think it's a conspiracy theory...

I just try to be an optimist  :P , better to support them rather than tell the sad fact part
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: gene_can_sing on May 06, 2011, 01:58:47 PM
I think I still believe that Canon can release 5d3 sooner. The delay news is just a marketing trick to deplete the previous version of camera. Because we are talking about the Japan industries, they are strong, smart, and rellable. That's what I believe from them  ;)

Rolling blackouts and a nuclear disaster 100 miles from Canon's L-lens plant are marketing tricks?  Don't tell that to the aliens living at Area 51, or they might think it's a conspiracy theory...

Didn't Nikon just release a new camera ? I know Sony has announced and will be releasing several video and a stills camera in the next few months. IPad production was disrupted for a minute, but has recovered. Seems like for everyone else, they're just going back to business, EXCEPT Canon, who is just continuing to milk customers on yesterdays technology. Even worse, using the earthquake as an excuse for not releasing any specs or release dates? That's shameful. All the other manufactures let their customers know what's going on.

I think people would cut Canon more slack if they had not been so bad about releasing products and basic fixes over the past few years, and just being so secretive and keeping customers who have invested a lot of money in their products, completely in the dark.

For me, all I want is a moire free video image, a fairly simple problem that has been around for years now. So frustrating.

Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: NotABunny on May 06, 2011, 04:33:34 PM
A camera is not a computer. It's primarily an optical device. Increasing processor speed, implementing software multithreading, making a smaller body, adding GPS or 3G capabilities doesn't produce better images.

Actually it is a computer, just not a very good one...leading folks to shoot RAW (fortunately this is an option) and using a good computer and good software to process the data into the nicest image possible. Digic5 should be better though, primarily thru increased processor speed so it can run higher quality code for NR and jpeg operations and still get a good framerate.

Being one who shoots RAW, I have to say that my reasons for doing so have nothing to do with the in-camera processing performance, but with the freedom given by post-processing (at any time after taking the photos).

I am only impressed by the improvements to the optical system (say 1 extra bit of tonal range in dark tones). Things like electronics, more computing power, GPS and stuff are not big technological jumps for me, they are bonus.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: WarStreet on May 06, 2011, 05:38:58 PM
Didn't Nikon just release a new camera ? I know Sony has announced and will be releasing several video and a stills camera in the next few months. IPad production was disrupted for a minute, but has recovered. Seems like for everyone else, they're just going back to business, EXCEPT Canon, who is just continuing to milk customers on yesterdays technology. Even worse, using the earthquake as an excuse for not releasing any specs or release dates? That's shameful. All the other manufactures let their customers know what's going on.

I think people would cut Canon more slack if they had not been so bad about releasing products and basic fixes over the past few years, and just being so secretive and keeping customers who have invested a lot of money in their products, completely in the dark.

For me, all I want is a moire free video image, a fairly simple problem that has been around for years now. So frustrating.

Nikon released the D5100. a rebel competitor which gets updated every 2 years, while Canon update theirs every year, and the 600D has been released slightly before the D5100. They also released the 1100D too.

The cycle of the 5D series is 3 years, therefore we should expect the 5DIII not before Q4 2011. As I said before, there are various reasons while the cycle time could increase not because delays but strategical reasons. Even Nikon and Sony, didn't released the 5DIII competitor yet. Canon is happy with the 5DII sales, and they can wait until the others do the move. Remember that the D700 lacks video and they can't wait much longer without an entry level FF camera with video.

Although I doubt the disaster in Japan would bring big delays for cameras not in production, it can certainly bring some delay, but even worse, it can delay the competitors and therefore Canon can afford a longer wait.

I believe, if there is no serious problem, all of these three top companies, will deliver their entry level FF approximately during the same period with only few months difference at most. Rumored dates are just rumors, and if Canon deliver the 5DIII between Q4 2011 - Q2 2012, there is nothing shocking about it.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: gibbygoo on May 06, 2011, 07:29:35 PM
"the moire / video problems are so pronounced right now, that they stand to lose a lot of video people to Sony and Panasonic who are making some solid video products already release or to be released in June and July."

Right. The moire problem is THE problem, followed by the 12-minute recording cap. (Rolling shutter is a non issue if you're using the camera as a creative pick-up tool).

Are you saying DSLRs are coming out that won't have RS and line sampling-induced moire? Don't hold your breath. (Same goes for balanced audio. Ain't gonna happen.) Of course, if your definition of a DSLR includes Red's Scarlet Vaporware, well, that's a different matter...
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: John Smith on May 08, 2011, 07:39:45 AM
"the moire / video problems are so pronounced right now, that they stand to lose a lot of video people to Sony and Panasonic who are making some solid video products already release or to be released in June and July."

Right. The moire problem is THE problem, followed by the 12-minute recording cap. (Rolling shutter is a non issue if you're using the camera as a creative pick-up tool).

As far as I understand, the 12 minute recording cap is due to FAT32 limitations. My impression from a google search is that Canon has licensed exFAT from microsoft, which would resolve the problem.

It appears the 60D has exFAT support, if the card is formatted on a computer. Could someone with a 60D try this and find out whether the 12 minute cap is gone in that scenario ?
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: NotABunny on May 08, 2011, 01:49:40 PM
As far as I understand, the 12 minute recording cap is due to FAT32 limitations. My impression from a google search is that Canon has licensed exFAT from microsoft, which would resolve the problem.

It appears the 60D has exFAT support, if the card is formatted on a computer. Could someone with a 60D try this and find out whether the 12 minute cap is gone in that scenario ?

The movie limit is due to several factors, one of which being that Canon doesn't want to register photocameras as videocameras, or so it was one or two years ago.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: unfocused on May 10, 2011, 01:18:08 PM
With the speed that technology in general has exponentially increased, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon and Nikon had the ability to make cameras twice as good as they are now, but they have an agreement to hold back because it's more profitable to make a series of upgrades rather than one big one.
This is the stupidest thing I've read on this forum.

That's a little blunt, but I have to admit my first thought was that this sounded an awful lot like the kids in junior high who used to say that Ford/Chevy/Chrysler had a secret carburetor that offered 100 miles to the gallon.

In a competitive market, companies don't "hold back" technology that gives them a competitive edge.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: gene_can_sing on May 10, 2011, 01:51:26 PM
With the speed that technology in general has exponentially increased, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon and Nikon had the ability to make cameras twice as good as they are now, but they have an agreement to hold back because it's more profitable to make a series of upgrades rather than one big one.
This is the stupidest thing I've read on this forum.

That's a little blunt, but I have to admit my first thought was that this sounded an awful lot like the kids in junior high who used to say that Ford/Chevy/Chrysler had a secret carburetor that offered 100 miles to the gallon.

In a competitive market, companies don't "hold back" technology that gives them a competitive edge.


Sorry, but you are very NAIVE if you think that companies don't hold back on technology and only try to further competition. LMAO. Canon is NOTORIOUS for milking customers on dated tech, like what they are doing now.

For example. the terrible Moire problem with their video has been an issue since the 5d2 was released almost 3 years ago. Panasonic and Sony's video has addressed this issue with their DSLR and video camera releases.

Canon instead just holds the technology hostage in hopes that they can juice customers some more. Everyone knows the moire is an easy fix as demonstrated by Panansonic, RED and Sony, yet Canon chooses to not release a fix for it. That is why video people who are stuck with thousands of dollars in Canon lenses can't really switch companies, and really want the 5d3 to come out.

So yeah, I'm 100% certain they could at least release a DSLR or video camera that fixes the moire issue, but they just want you to shell out more cash for the 4 year old Digic 4. Trust me, Canon is definitely holding new tech. hostage at this point, and video customers like myself who invested serious cash (10k+) into Canon gear and lenses, are just getting angrier by the moment. And that is why you see so many 5D3 posts, it's because everyone knows Canon's game plan and it's getting old and frustrating.

Canon can fool people up until a certain point, and that point has been past for a while.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: willhuff.net on May 10, 2011, 02:44:20 PM
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1008/10082410canon120mpsensor.asp

They announced this in August 2010. What is more profitable, going from 24mp to 120mp and selling 3 million units, or going from 24mp to 30mp and selling 3 million units, then going from 30mp to 38mp and selling another 3 million units, then going from 38mp to 48mp and selling another 3 million units...

Yes, this sensor was probably prohibitively expensive to produce and current computers would cry trying to handle images that size, but its in Canon's interest to make incremental improvements to get the most sales. Think of it as a race. You get the win for beating your opponents whether it's by a meter or a mile.

This is the same reason that if your competitor is making a widget that lasts for 1 year, you don't need to make a widget that lasts a lifetime, it only needs to last 1.25 years to be a better product. What good is a customer that only buys from you once?

With the speed that technology in general has exponentially increased, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon and Nikon had the ability to make cameras twice as good as they are now, but they have an agreement to hold back because it's more profitable to make a series of upgrades rather than one big one.
This is the stupidest thing I've read on this forum.

That's a little blunt, but I have to admit my first thought was that this sounded an awful lot like the kids in junior high who used to say that Ford/Chevy/Chrysler had a secret carburetor that offered 100 miles to the gallon.

In a competitive market, companies don't "hold back" technology that gives them a competitive edge.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: gene_can_sing on May 10, 2011, 04:01:42 PM
I think what is really frustrating is that the video issues are very basic and fundamental to a good picture and NOT something that is remotely futuristic since the video moire issue is a non-issue in competitor cameras that are priced even below Canon (Panasonic GH2 at $900).

I wish it were a futuristic problem, then at least I can accept the shortcomings, but when Canon is blatantly holding something essential for a good video image from customers for years now just to milk them dry, that is just a really bad way to treat customers.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: NotABunny on May 10, 2011, 04:28:49 PM
Canon is NOTORIOUS for milking customers on dated tech, like what they are doing now.

What makes something notorious? A few people saying the word on the Internet?

For example. the terrible Moire problem with their video has been an issue since the 5d2 was released almost 3 years ago. Panasonic and Sony's video has addressed this issue with their DSLR and video camera releases.

Have you considered that if they were to "fix" this moire, their sensor would be overheating which would reduce its lifetime and possible affect the image quality? The firmware has changed over these years, the sensor did not.


The entire world moves on small steps. Jumps are rare.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: gene_can_sing on May 10, 2011, 05:03:08 PM
Canon used to be known as a "Revolutionary" company before they became the dominant company. These days, they are known as the MOST conservative of all the camera companies, which results in really long waits between significant product updates, a lack of desire to fix major camera flaws and not listening to customer's concerns.

As for fixing the moire, it is something that is not even an issue in DSLRs that are cheaper than Canon, and these cameras (Panny GH2) have ZERO over-heating issues. So it's a fix that is here and now and obviously very do-able.

Since you are probably a still photographer, just imagine when you take a still, if you could NOT take a deep focus picture of anything with a pattern (striped shirts, phone lines, roofs, fences) without a rainbow pattern going through it and also have edges that appeared very pixelated (aliasing issues). You would be very irate and want a fix also.

And yes, I would jump ship, but it's hard to do when you've invested 10K into Canon gear to just switch. Several years back, I bought the 7D kit thinking this was an apparent problem that would be just be fixed in the next iteration of the camera. Boy was I wrong.

Any yes, I would gladly pay 5 to 6K for a Canon HD large sensor video camera that addresses the problems, but dang.... they don't make one of those either.
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: NotABunny on May 11, 2011, 03:06:55 AM
Several years back, I bought the 7D kit thinking this was an apparent problem that would be just be fixed in the next iteration of the camera. Boy was I wrong.

Which shows even more that they have a hardware issue, not a software one. I mean, they're likely to change the sensor technology only starting with a top camera. Neither the 7D and 1D4 did that.

And by the way, the sensor of the GH2 is 3.5 times smaller than that of 5D2 (which means less heat by default).
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: sharagim1 on May 11, 2011, 03:38:23 AM
As much as I hate to admit it, I think the 2 May Northlight Images rumor is correct. The "1Ds3 replacement" (perhaps better called the "new professional FF body") won't appear until August and the 5D3 won't appear until next year. Tsunami damage to the supply chain was just too great and everything has been shoved back 6 months. Anything before that is just a pleasant surprise

can i ask are you just thinking about canon dslr replacment date?
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: I Simonius on May 13, 2011, 10:29:28 AM
the ONLY update I want is waterproofing. Any other extras would be fine but AFAIC the only thing wrong with my 5D2 is it can't cope with rain etc

And no I don't wanta 1Ds series - they're too heavy!

The gaskets are made of lead, apparently.
not sure whether that's sarcasm or humour.
I struggle to carry as much weight as I already have in camera/lenses, so - seriously, a 1Ds would be too heavy.
There is nothing whatsoever wrong with the 5D2 AFAIC except that it lets water in. I have had one completely die due to this. So waterproofing is the one thing I'd wish for it. Don't care if they call it a 3D as long as it's no heavier than the 5D
Title: Re: 5D Mark III & More
Post by: CR Backup Admin on May 13, 2011, 11:12:40 AM
I bought a Canon Digital Rebel in 2002 when they first appeared, it seemed large and heavy.  After buying more lenses, I steped up to a 30D.  It seemed heavy as well.  Then, I stumbled on a used 5d, which and found that it was just too heavy, particularly combined with a 24-70 lens.  So i sold it and bought a 40D.  I owned 5 40d's over the next three years, and got progressively larger and heavier lenses.  By that time, I was ready for a 1D MK II, and it only seemed a little heavy carrying it around with my 70-200mm f/2.8L.

The increase in weight over the years seems to come naturally, but was a big shock when I bought a heavy lens and camera after using lighter ones.   Now, I do not even notice the weight of my 5D MK II or my 1D MK III except when I bought a 600mm f/4L and tried carrying it around.  I'm not ready for that amount of weight yet!