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Gear Talk => EOS Bodies - For Stills => Topic started by: SJTstudios on September 27, 2012, 09:53:26 PM

Title: Working with film
Post by: SJTstudios on September 27, 2012, 09:53:26 PM
I have aproblem,

Im starting a photography class in my high school next year, but the first year is film only.
I want to find a cheap canon film slr that is a descent camera, but won't break the bank, and the price won't hurt me if I dont use the camera for a long time.
I need to make sure it has a canon ef mount, or else I can't use my lenses.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: dr croubie on September 27, 2012, 11:32:27 PM
EOS 3 is probably the most recommended around here (or anywhere else), especially if you ask me (i've got one and love it).

It has the 45pt Af from the 1-series up to the 1Ds3/1D4, it's built just as well, weatherproof as much as a 5D2 if not more. Interchangeable focussing screens (interchangeable with all the 1-series screens at least), you can add a PB-E2 to get 7 fps (if you really want to burn through film), a BP-E1 just for longer battery life (and AAs), or go ungripped (and then it's about the same size as my 7D).

And the best part is the eye-control AF, i've got it set to only 11pt because then you get spot-linked metering (which only exists in other 1-series bodies).
Or maybe the best part is that you can get one under $200, 100-150 if you're lucky.

There's only 1 step up from there, and that's a 1V, which still cost closer to $400-500, or one step down and you're in EOS 5 or EOS 1N range. They're both good, a 5 is cheaper and a 1N i don't know but probably a bit less than a 3.
But go the 3, you can't be disappointed...
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: bdunbar79 on September 28, 2012, 12:00:18 AM
I too have the EOS-3.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: Nishi Drew on September 28, 2012, 05:50:05 AM
You can buy the whole class Rebel G cameras for the price of one EOS 3  ;D
But then you'd run out of lenses  ::)

But seriously, I got one along with an FTb and lens in a nice lowepro bag at a Good Will for $30,
the camera looks like it was just a display model and practically untouched. An EOS3 is nice, but
it just depends on how much use the camera may see in your hands out of the class.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: dtaylor on September 28, 2012, 06:19:27 AM
If you can afford it...EOS 3.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: Menace on September 28, 2012, 06:27:35 AM
I'd suggest EOS 5 for what you need - have fun with film :)
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: Timothy_Bruce on September 28, 2012, 06:54:57 AM
I have 2 canon EOS 600 bought them  for 60€ each and they work excellent. You will  have just 1 AF point put I don´t think that will harm you. I think they limit you to film for reason of simpleness and for getting a feeling for Photography. It is a decent working camera with a nice bright VF. It works with all Canon lenses and Speedlights.  For the price it is a no brainer to have one at least to backup you probable EOS 3 ;)

I use them  mostly to shoot BW-Film, when I feel the need to go  to my darkroom and have some Photography in my Hands ;)
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: PVS on September 28, 2012, 08:19:32 AM
EOS 30 has all the nice features (ECF) and decent AF points count and you can find them for less than $100.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: crasher8 on September 28, 2012, 08:27:46 AM
High School budget? Elan 7. $100 for a really clean body from B & H or Keh. If you're going to buy one used in person take a cheap roll of film with you to test it with. Feel the pressure plate for burrs and make certain the take up spool and rewind mech work smoothly.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: vargyropoulos on September 28, 2012, 08:50:47 AM
I know you mentioned that you wanted EF mount but I recently got a hold of an AE-1 and I find this to be an excellent training camera, it has helped me get rid of some bad habits... some of those fancier SLR's may still have too many bells and whistles for training purposes
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: EYEONE on September 28, 2012, 09:08:12 AM
I also have a EOS-3 and it's a fantastic camera. They can be found used on Amazon for usually less than $300. I think I got mine for $150 or so.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: Chris_prophotographic on September 28, 2012, 09:20:21 AM
Again +EOS 3 get it.

It has a light touch trigger very fast reaction to a press


What is the  difference between EOS 3 and 5 some speed things and AF but for 300$ ball park its a win.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: slinky on September 28, 2012, 10:39:52 AM
I'll echo that the Elan 7/EOS30 is a nice alternative to the 3 if you want to save a bit of money.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: SJTstudios on September 28, 2012, 12:19:30 PM
Judging by the images I've seen, I'd like to investigate the eos 3 and the eos 5.
What do get with the 3 over the 5
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: DavidRiesenberg on September 28, 2012, 02:37:32 PM
I know you mentioned that you wanted EF mount but I recently got a hold of an AE-1 and I find this to be an excellent training camera, it has helped me get rid of some bad habits... some of those fancier SLR's may still have too many bells and whistles for training purposes

I second the AE-1 or one of its variants. You won't be able to use your lenses, sure, but FD glass is excellent and cheap. I don't know what lenses you have now but fast FD primes are a delight to work with.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: crasher8 on September 28, 2012, 02:42:00 PM
This is a high school student and I assume a small budget here guys. The EOS 3 may be found for 300 if you're lucky but it won't be E+ at that amount. Let's find out the OP's range and offer advice accordingly. PLus by not using existing EF lenses that add's $$$ to the mix.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: FTb-n on September 29, 2012, 01:47:10 AM
I got hooked on photography shooting for my high-school yearbook staff.  After my freshman year, I bought an FTb-n w/ 50 1.4 new and carried it just about every day for the next three years.  I learned how to shoot, how to anticipate the shot, and how to see the shot with this camera.  When you can't rely on auto-focus or auto-exposure, you learn how to anticipate the movement of the subject and  changes in lighting.  Out of necessity, you learn how to work the shutter speed and depth-of-field to your advantage.  Your goal is to learn how to see the image and how to work the mechanics of the camera to capture it as you see it – so don't rely on a body that does this thinking for you.

Fully manual bodies are great learning tools.  If you can find an AE1 and a couple FD lenses, they are great options for film.  Note that manual focus with an AE1 or an FTb is a lot easier than with a current DSLR because of the split image or micro-prism focusing screens that these bodies used.  If you go the FD body route, look for an AE1 or later model "electronic" body.  The FTb is a great body, but it's mechanically timed shutter may not be as accurate as it once was.  (If the seller confirms the calibration of the shutter on a used FTb-n – then grab it.)

If you stick with the EF route, go simple.  A Rebel G would work great.  Set it to center-point focussing and manual exposure.  Find a body that relinquishes control of the shutter, the f-stop, and the focus point to you.  With DSLR's the body's sensor plays a huge role in IQ.  With film-based SLR's, the IQ is in the film.  Don't get hung up on finding a film body with DSLR features.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: SJTstudios on September 29, 2012, 09:29:45 AM
I'm good at manual, and I'm not a beginner.
Budget is around 300 dollars or less.
As long as the camera can shoot, isn't that hard to use, and has an ef mount so I can use some l glass, it's great, but I do want to avoid rebel type cameras, and the élan 7.
I'm thinking the eos 5 is the way to go
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: CharlieB on September 29, 2012, 10:39:19 AM

Fully manual bodies are great learning tools.  If you can find an AE1 and a couple FD lenses, they are great

I think you mean the AT-1, which was manual.  The AE-1, AV-1, and A-1 were auto exposure.

The A series suffers from "shutter brake wheeze", but its easily corrected.  FTb/n's were tanks, suffered from a failure in the meter coupling.

Keep in mind the FTb/n and F1 batteries are no longer truly available.  The mercury battery has been replaced with ... lithium? ... I forget which.  It was a 1.35v battery, and the replacement throws the meters off.  Some meters can be calibrated to the new voltage, some cannot, due to the linearity of the mechanisms.

The A series took the four into one stacked silver battery - still available.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: danski0224 on September 29, 2012, 10:42:25 AM
What about something like an EOS 620? I still have mine, which I bought new.

Edit: I think one big difference between this series and later/"pro" film cameras is the older ones will not drive lenses with IS... not sure if the AF part on an IS lens will work. I don't have a battery laying around to check on mine.

But, if all you need is basic picture taking capability, the price is certainly within your budget.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: RLPhoto on September 29, 2012, 11:21:27 AM
I have aproblem,

Im starting a photography class in my high school next year, but the first year is film only.
I want to find a cheap canon film slr that is a descent camera, but won't break the bank, and the price won't hurt me if I dont use the camera for a long time.
I need to make sure it has a canon ef mount, or else I can't use my lenses.

EOs 650.  ::)

No but seriously and EOS-3 is great but I have a el cheapo rebel 2000 that fine.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: FTb-n on September 29, 2012, 01:41:47 PM
CharlieB, you're right that the AE-1 had auto-exposure modes (hence the "AE"), but it's my reference point for the "electronic" bodies because it was the first to replace mechanical timing with electronics.  It was also the most popular -- likely more widely available.  The AE-1 did have manual mode.  I used them for many years and they lived in manual, so I still tend to think of them as manual.

Of course, this does prove that you can explore the benefits of manual with more advanced bodies.

SJTstudios, if your good at manual, then you already know what I was driving at and it does make sense to get the most you can get and think long-term.

CharlieB makes a good point on batteries.  The FTb's needed button-cells for the light meter, but could still function without them.  These are still fun cameras (or maybe I'm too nostalgic for the classics).  I don't know how readily available the AE-1 batteries still are – without them, the camera is useless.  It does pay to look into battery availability and future potential (if you can guess at this).
Title: B&H's current Canon EOS used film body list
Post by: crasher8 on September 29, 2012, 05:09:57 PM
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ns=p_PRICE_2%7c1&ci=3017&N=4294247087+4291570227&srtclk=sort (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ns=p_PRICE_2%7c1&ci=3017&N=4294247087+4291570227&srtclk=sort)

Enjoy shopping
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: smithy on September 29, 2012, 06:31:39 PM
Just get a Rebel G (EOS 500N).  It's small, light weight, and has the manual controls that you will no doubt be required to use in your photography class.  If you're only going to use it for 1 year, then the financial outlay will be next to nothing.

Save your cash for digital, because those cameras will bleed you dry.
Title: Re: Working with film
Post by: dafrank on September 29, 2012, 09:23:21 PM
My recommendation is to find a good clean EOS 620. Takes all EOS EF lenses, has autofocus, sturdy metal body, large contrasty viewfinder and simple controls, with easily replaceable battery and lots and lots of old examples around - try Craigs List or Ebay, if not local camera shops used departments, camera shows and thrift shops. A very nice clean one will fetch between $30.00 to $120.00, depending on who is selling it and where it's selling. This was a high mid-end enthusiast camera when it came out. See" http://kenrockwell.com/canon/film-bodies/eos620.htm (http://kenrockwell.com/canon/film-bodies/eos620.htm) to learn more specific details. Generally, it's going to sell for much less than any of the pro EOS cameras of its era, or the ones from a bit later, and be almost as good performing and rugged in use as the pro models, except in autofocus performance, which you should probably not really be using very often anyway, if you really want to learn to master photography, rather than learn to pilot an auto-function camera. They don't make mid-level cameras with construction like the 620 anymore. I bought my son this camera with a new cheap "normal" zoom to go with it for his introductory photo class about 5 years ago  and the thing is still going strong. The camera body was $75.00 from a good local camera store and the less than stellar 3rd party zoom lens was another $75.00 or so. Your experience will vary. And don't be afraid of getting a used beat-up looking and now discontinued model Canon EOS lens (I coundn't find one when when my son needed it); if it works properly, the bad cosmetics are only acting in your favor, lowering the price for you because many others would be too worried to take a chance on the bad cosmetics.

If you want even better construction, can live without autofocus and don't mind digging around for some older FD lenses later on, get an even older top-of-the-line professional Canon F-1 - or the second series "new" F-1 - with a lens or three in a kit for sale on Ebay, or from the same sources mentioned above. That was a great camera and using it as an all manual camera (both focus and exposure) is very very easy and a great experience for anyone trying to learn the actual craft of photography for the first time.

Whatever you do, don't buy one of the later, flimsy plastic EOS Rebels, which were comparatively poorly constructed and not as nice in many other ways.

Regards,
David