June 18, 2013, 11:21:16 PM

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Messages - Apop

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3
Pricewatch Deals / Re: Sigma 120-300 f/2.8 DG OS HSM Now in Stock
« on: June 06, 2013, 08:02:23 AM »
MFD oke, but when you only get 275-280mm @ 50 feet it is a bit more worrying
I think buyers of this lens should be aware it's a 280mm f2.8 lens ( works out nicely with the 98mm diameter of the front element), and possibly around 3.4-3.5 t stop

I am still really considering this lens because it gives great flexability and a fast lens
If your willing to give up a stop when using it with 1.4 converter, it will be approx 392mm(T4.9) @f5.6 instead of f4 ,I wonder how close it comes in center performance to the nikon 200-400 f4@f4 (which is t5.1). , might be an interesting alternative even to the canon 200-400 if you dont really need 560mm.

A 70-200 with 1.4 converter should be around T-stop 4.9 ( 3.4*1.4*approx 1.03 for the light loss in the TC)
So 280mm T3.4-3.5? with the sigma will still be quite a significant advantage.

It's a shame there is no place to find the T-stops of lenses tho, the only data i found was from the older sigma 120-300(without OS), 18 elements in 16 groups, instead of the 23 in 18 groups now

that was 3.4

A ef 70-200 f2.8 L IS mkII has a min focus distance of 1200mm and offers a max magnification of 0.21 at 200mm. If one focusses at 70mm and then zooms to 200mm the image is very slightly out of focus. Not a parafocus lens, but close.
A ef 70-300L IS has the same min focus distance and offers the same max magnification at 300mm. So it looses 100mm of of focal length when compared to the 70-200. Focus at 70mm and zoom to 300mm and the image is a lot more out of focus than the 70-200 was.

What do these "1200mm" mean? Distance from sensor? Distance from front nodal point? Distance from frontmost point of the lens? You see very quickly that the numbers you state may not say what you think they say, especially if you consider that a 300mm lens must lose more focal length to achieve near focus than a 200mm lens, and that it likely is longer and has a different internal construction.

The Sigma 120-300 f2.8 OS's figures are really curious, MFD of 1500mm (not that far off the 70-200's) but it's max magnification is a lowly 0.12x. So there's a massive focal reduction going on there. Focus at 120mm and zoom and the image is hopelessly out of focus even by 200mm.

If these 1500mm are measured from the sensor plane, and given the total length of this lens, the difference between 1200mm and 1500mm is much more substantial than it would appear to the unwashed masses.

By my conservative estimates, this lens drops to a focal length of around 240mm at 3m or less.

So what? If you look at http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/510-canon_70200_2is28, you will see that the 70-200 L IS drops from 200mm to 161mm, that's the same relative drop (161/200 ~ 240/300). And again, nobody is trying to defraud us here, it's simply laws of optics at work here. Unless you give up internal focusing, you will have to live with loss of focal length as you focus close.

A 300mm f4 L IS has a MFD of 1500mm and that's got a Max Mag of 0.24x so I'm sure you can see there is a lot of focal length loss with this Sigma at MFD.

AFAIK the 300 F/4 doesn't have internal focusing, so it likely won't lose much focal length at MFD. If you main goal is having long focal length at MFD, stay away from lenses with internal focusing regardless of vendor.

The whole point of a 300mm f2.8 is to diffuse the background by having the main subject fairly close and the background far away. With this lens, even a 70-200 f2.8 II L will do this better. Pop a 1.4x TC on the 70-200 and it's even easier.

If blurring the far away background is your aim, the lens with the largest entrance pupil is what you want regardless of focal length. As it just so happens, this diameter is more or less the front lens diameter for most tele lenses, so you should pick accordingly. You can also estimate this number by dividing focal length by F number. No teleconverter is going to help you there in any way, shape or form!

In regards to the f stop value of the 85mm f1.2L, no it's an f1.2. F stops are a mathmatical formula and are quite abstract. T stops are a calibrated transmission of light through the optic.

I did not refer to T stops, but to real F stops. If you look at Canon patents, you will see, that stated F stop numbers are not accurate and conveniently rounded down for marketing purposes:
http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/12/canon-files-a-patent-for-a-bunch-of-lenses/

It is quite clear that a lens with 105mm filter diameter can't possibly have F/2.8 and 300mm focal length at the same time, so it's obvious that Sigma conveniently rounded the actual numbers in their favour. This discrepancy is not due to laws of physics or the like, it was simply a marketing decision and possible buyers get less than they might think they pay for.

But let's please cut this mindless drivel "I lose focal length at MFD!!!" for good.

4
If that is really true there might be something wrong with the lens/converter or af adjusment.
I find it very hard to spot any differences in 100% crops and the drop in AF speed difference isn't noticeble to me either

There must be a difference in AF speed an quality, no doubt ,but I think it is just very small

Those are nice with the new Nikon lens. I have been thinking of that lens for a walk around lens.

No offence. But I kinda shudder every time I see people pushing any lens with T.C's as being an alternative. I have the 300 II and I will use the 1.4x only with it. The image is sharp but it looses allot with the 1.4 connected. I won't even connect a 2x to it? Same with another II lens I own.  Just me I guess.

5
I downloaded the jpg of the full picture, and when i take 100% crop it looks very impressive! and that at 1/320th :D

For some reason it shows a lot more detail than when looking at the displayed crop in your post , maybe compression?

Nice picture !, if you got any more where those came from don't hesitate to put em here:)

Thanks glad you liked it.

I don't use this combination every day, but I was out with it again today. Just in the last few moments of daylight some red deer were in the sun and I took this shot hand held @ 1/320 sec. The head is a crop of the main shot to show just how good this combination can be.

6
EOS Bodies / Re: 7d2 v 1D4
« on: June 03, 2013, 10:05:47 AM »
Seemingly pointless thoughts are the best ones imo , I still want my 1.4 converter with build in 1.4 converter to slide in place like on the 200-400

1.4 and 1.96 converter in one , yes please, don't care if it's bulky or fragile

8
Lenses / Re: Speedboster and AF speed
« on: May 21, 2013, 09:54:55 AM »
Here is a little video review of the adapter, looks promising!


Metabones Speed Booster Hands-On Field Test Small | Large

9
Yes the 300/2.8mk2  from  canon looks very good in the MTF lab and Hasselblads measurements

and much more importantly it works well when you use it to take real photographs.  ::)

Had a good time with mine today. 8)

Do you use it with the 2x converter at times?

Also im close to ordering the 500 lens foot to put on the 300 for comfort!, i hope that it will fit....
Since the 500 comes with both a small and big foot , and the small one looks identical to the 300 foot I am kinda anticipating it will!

Will provide a bit more comfort for handholding with my hands

I use the 2x TC MKIII and find it very good indeed, that's what I was using today.

here is a shot taken yesterday with mkII 300 f2.8 and mkIII 2x TC. i underexposed by 1 stop that i pulled back in PP. It was overcast and raining but i was looking for a gritty look to match the wire.


Nice picture !, if you got any more where those came from don't hesitate to put em here:)

10
Yes the 300/2.8mk2  from  canon looks very good in the MTF lab and Hasselblads measurements

and much more importantly it works well when you use it to take real photographs.  ::)

Had a good time with mine today. 8)

Do you use it with the 2x converter at times?

Also im close to ordering the 500 lens foot to put on the 300 for comfort!, i hope that it will fit....
Since the 500 comes with both a small and big foot , and the small one looks identical to the 300 foot I am kinda anticipating it will!

Will provide a bit more comfort for handholding with my hands

11
That is a good point..., so either nikon has a new way of measuring their MTF's , or fluorite is actually used for it's optical superiority?

800mm


600mm



Edit: Sorry, did not notice that superED is not used in the 600mm , it's in the 80-400 though, maybe they will use supered/fluorite in future lenses.

Seems like Nikon does not know their own products at all
-Two fluorite lens elements
The fluorite elements also deliver superior optical performance, achieving high transmission rates with minimal chromatic aberration and lower dispersion properties than even super ED glass, according to Nikon.

Luckily we have ankorwatt to correct Nikon's statements

All this to fluorite or not.....

The nikon 800 f5.6 (latest tele from nikon)

''The AF-S NIKKOR 800mm f/5.6E FL ED VR is a marvel of NIKKOR optical design. The lens is comprised of 20 elements split into 13 lens groups. The front and second elements are fluorite (a lightweight mono-crystal optical material), which provides superior optical characteristics and reduced weight for balanced handling.''

Looks like nikon is also going to fluorite from now on


But Mikael/ankorwatt says that Nikon's SuperED glass is just as good as fluorite. Why would Nikon need to use fluorite at all?   ::)

12
Well maybe your right, but I just see the latest tele from nikon have 2 fluorite elements (like canon?)

and their own words: The front and second elements are fluorite (a lightweight mono-crystal optical material), which provides superior optical characteristics and reduced weight for balanced handling.''


Which leads me to believe that the next 300 2.8 / 400 2.8 / 500 4 /600 4 will also incorporate fluorite elements, if not for the superior optical characteristics , for the weight.

13
Oh, well not according to themselves atleast

Nikon 800 lens construcion






NIkon 500 lens construction



etc
etc

Nikon 600 lens construction
http://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/en_INC/IMG/Assets/Camera-Lenses/2010/2173_AF-S-NIKKOR-600mm-f-4G-ED-VR/Misc/2173_AF-S-NIKKOR-600mm-f4G-ED-VR_Construction-2.jpg

Nikon 300 2.8 VRII




So if the 800mm is any indication, the next generation of tele's will make use of fluorite elements as well.

14
All this to fluorite or not.....

The nikon 800 f5.6 (latest tele from nikon)

''The AF-S NIKKOR 800mm f/5.6E FL ED VR is a marvel of NIKKOR optical design. The lens is comprised of 20 elements split into 13 lens groups. The front and second elements are fluorite (a lightweight mono-crystal optical material), which provides superior optical characteristics and reduced weight for balanced handling.''

Looks like nikon is also going to fluorite from now on

15
Wow that 300 graphs looks nice!

Basically your saying that TheDigitalPicture is fabricating or sabotaging the nikon results?

I think the differences are really small and hard to notice in the field?

How do you explains mansurovs experiences with the tc2xIII , where he states that you need to atleast stop down to f8 and preferably f11?, where as with the canon 300 f2.8 +2x 5.6-6.3 is already very sharp

Photographylife(Mansurovs)
For example he found that the 300+1.4@ f5.6-f8 is still less sharp than 400 @ f2.8
and : When stopped down to f/11, the Nikon 300mm f/2.8G VR II + TC-20E III looks sharper than Nikon 400mm f/2.8G VR + TC-14E II wide open , while @ f8 vs f4 more or less comparable.
Read more: http://photographylife.com/reviews/nikon-400mm-f2-8g-vr#ixzz2TL6jX49v

This post was originally about performance with teleconverters, I don't doubt that the bare lenses are very close if not equal, but it seems that in all reviews that i have seen that canon's like the converters a bit more.



canon 300&400
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=739&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=1&API=1&LensComp=741&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=739&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=2&API=3&LensComp=741&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=1&APIComp=1





REGARDING  TESTPICTURES I have seen he's test pictures before, http://www.the-digital-picture.com, totally out of control  and no declaration in how many meters etc to the test  target, different combos are optimized for different distance.Different super telephoto lenses are optimized for different distances


So here are a real measurements from real MTF test, and by Hasselblads MTF lab IN GOTHENBURG  and for  the magazine  Foto here in Sweden. They conclude , there are no difference between for example 400/2.8 , 500/4  600/4 FROM NIKON AND CANON,   (sorry Krille you can sue me for showing this sides from your excellent Photo magazine FOTO)
THE 4 TESTED LENSES ARE EQUAL  NOW you  can believe in what you want regarding one or others companies sovereignty and about  for example  fluorite glass and there are a lot more companies than Nikon, Canon  how can build decent lenses . example Zeiss.Leitz, Sigma,Pentax, Tokina,Tamron  etc etc
Im sorry that Im  erasing yet another myth
And if Jrista or Neuro  want to discuss Hasselblad credibility in their measurements, I suggest that they directly address Per Nordlund  via e-mail, he is the lens expert  expert at Hasselblad

pictures taken from the magazine with a iPhone

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