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Messages - peederj

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1
EOS Bodies / Re: Official: Canon EOS 7D Mark II
« on: September 15, 2014, 07:22:40 PM »
I guess stills images are all filled with useless garbage then? Because those are 1:1.

Try doing debayering that good 24 times a second for half an hour. And then crop 2MP out of your 20MP still and see what you think of the quality. They have OLPF's for this problem, but they are a tradeoff.

Did Canon solve this problem in the 70D? I wasn't able to find chart tests. Too many morons trying to review video cameras using brick walls and the like, having no idea how moire forms (moire can also form from poor downsampling, but false color is a debayering problem) much less how to test it. Anyway it's of passing interest; I'm trying to cut Canon some slack here which is unduly generous.

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EOS Bodies / Re: Official: Canon EOS 7D Mark II
« on: September 15, 2014, 06:34:04 PM »
Those digital zoom things on the rebels had simply dreadful false color artifacting/moire.

Baloney.  It's just a 1:1 pixel crop - almost no moire at all, and in fact much less than in regular video modes.

The 70D has it, and no moire is one advantage often sited.

One thing I'd really love is the ability to smoothly zoom from 1x to 3x "digital zoom" which would greatly increase the zoom range of a zoom lens, or add a usable zoom range to a prime.  The 18-135STM, for example, would go from 29-216 to 29-621.

The false color artifacting comes from debayering, not downsampling. And it's very hard to suppress in the absence of downsampling. This (along with dynamic range extension) is why 1:1 pixel video cameras are rare. It was awful on the Rebels, I imagine it's also awful on the 70D, but everyone studiously avoids running chart tests on video cameras because the news is usually so grim.

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EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark IV announcement after March 2015
« on: September 15, 2014, 06:27:15 PM »
DPAF is all about video, and having it but not having a touchscreen to control it is hilariously weak sauce.

I'm sure the thing will have Wifi and I'm sure it will be out by March.

If they don't do 4K video it will be the final end of Canon DSLR video as a thing (barring a C-series DSLR that's actually competitive), but that's OK with me. Canon simply never figured out how to shepherd their 5D2 keen kids to the C100/C300. The price gap was too great for them to bear, along with the need to redefine themselves as "serious videographers" given they were now shooting a proper motion picture camera. So Canon lost all that goodwill and business to Panasonic and then the truly miserable Blackmagic scam.

The people who did make the leap would all buy Sony FS7's right now if they are making the 4K transition. I would suggest that for those still thinking DSLR video.

Canon still has a very good game in stills but these specs are unspectacular if true. I mean, hard even to justify upgrading the 5D2's for the stills shooters still laboring with them and who don't use anything other than center AF. The 7D2 is a nice action cam but the 5D4 would need at least a whole stop better low-light to tempt me up from the 5D3. I think medium format is the next step for the serious non-action stills shooter, the 5D3 is a fine all-arounder as is.

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EOS Bodies / Re: Official: Canon EOS 7D Mark II
« on: September 15, 2014, 06:13:10 PM »
Those digital zoom things on the rebels had simply dreadful false color artifacting/moire. Do it optically, why are we shooting Canon if not the big whites?

5
EOS Bodies / Re: Official: Canon EOS 7D Mark II
« on: September 15, 2014, 02:52:43 PM »
Anyone still wanting to use a DSLR for video can struggle with the GH4 and the A7S/Shogun. I don't care about DSLR video much anymore, it's handy, but any serious work (where quality matters) should be done on a proper cam at this point...the total costs of ownership aren't much higher once you've jury-rigged something together that can make a DSLR vaguely functional.

The worse problem is the 7D2 is as a stills camera not enough for Canon at this point. They still haven't leapt ahead of Nikon and Sony in this generation. The 7D2 is sort of a crop 5D3 with higher frame rate and a couple more modern touches. Canon still don't have a D800-competing big megapixel cam nor do they have another generation in low-light advantage they used to enjoy.

Maybe Canon are transitioning to medium format to gain a generational advantage and force us all to buy new glass. The FF135 and APS-C cams will be for sports/wildlife people and emphasize AF and HFR like this 7D2 does. Portrait and landscape will move to larger sensors. I'm not against that in principle, though repurchasing glass will hurt. But getting us to do that is the best way for Canon to make money and I don't deny them the right to make money.

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EOS Bodies / Re: A Surprise Cinema EOS Announcement for Photokina? [CR1]
« on: September 15, 2014, 02:50:02 AM »
Best early review of the FS7 prototype. 1700 lph with that little aliasing/moire is really amazing at this price point. (And I wonder if the external RAW recording can do even better...)

http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/sonyxdcam/first-look-sony-pxw-fs7-l-s-s-shoulder-mount-camcorder-part-1.html

Canon it's getting laaaaaate....

7
EOS Bodies - For Video / peederj
« on: September 14, 2014, 08:49:03 PM »
Canon already have all the required technology in the C500. That huge heatsink I think is purely a decoy, made to make it look like they had to strain to get 4K HFR out of the C100 form factor. They likely didn't, it's just a way of assuring upsales.

The things Canon didn't have in the C500 are instructive: a 4K codec and a storage format for one. They just had the same 50mbit MXF 1080p30 of the C300 onboard, and let you record 4K outboard. Tech has moved forward though and now there's Cfast and plenty of codec options for them to choose from. They could leave everything else as it is, just upgrade the line with Cfast cards and a 4K/HFR codec and call it C200/400/600. The sensor is already a 4K/HFR capable sensor as demonstrated in the C500.

I hope the ergonomics get a refresh too though because they really aren't shoulder-mount capable cams. The Sony FS7 shows how a cam should be set up...we shouldn't have to go to Zacuto for a relocatable EVF, a grip relocator, a shoulder pad or basic rails. And a power zoom rocker on the grip, movable DPAF points, the basic ergonomic complaints we had with the 1st gen C series should all be addressed in this refresh. Aaton cat-on-the-shoulder balanced design please.

But if Canon don't have the next line ready they can just upgrade the storage format and codec to remain relevant. If the C500 is already at max spec externally they could just leave it as-is until they have a new design. They have to do something right away though because the 4K train has left the station.

8
EOS Bodies / Re: A Surprise Cinema EOS Announcement for Photokina? [CR1]
« on: September 14, 2014, 08:27:06 PM »
BTW ... the 28-135 f/4 OSS power zoom lens ($2500) is included at $8000 too!

No it isn't...there is a package deal but it costs more than $8K with the lens.

The V-mount battery/output module that offers timecode and RAW output is only about $2K and I think it's a good design to have all that removable so you can get a small C100-size camera on a jib or gimbal. 4K is nice for stabilization and repo as mentioned. Everything RTS with the 28-135 pz and the battery/output module will run something like $12.5K street...but remember, you won't need any rigging or any extras other than battery and memory at that price. People in this forum would also get Speedbooster Ultra's for their EF glass.

And no, most hilariously, Canon are NOT going to be abandoning the Cinema camera space so quickly. The C-series have been incredibly successful. Trust me, think back to the price of the F35 and consider whether Sony really wanted to sell this FS7 at $8K. Canon is forcing them to undercut to this degree because the C-series is so popular. I have never had the least trouble with the C100 and I don't plan on selling it just yet. But I'm also unable to recommend it with the FS7 available at that price.

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EOS Bodies / Re: A Surprise Cinema EOS Announcement for Photokina? [CR1]
« on: September 13, 2014, 11:03:27 PM »
I don't see any reason why Canon wouldn't want to go ahead and announce whatever they've got for Cinema at Photokina, before people receive their FS7's.

Canon definitely are not going to want to 4K enable the existing base of C100/C300s. They are going to want to sell you a new camera. This is OK with me.

Canon aren't going to 4K enable the 5D4 either I think. If you're going to shoot 4K video today, you're going to want the facilities of a purpose-built camera rather than a hybrid hack. And 4K is so unforgiving on talent, hair/makeup/wardrobe, set and lighting that anyone shooting it is going to have enough budget for a FS7-style cam. It will overcomplicate the DSLR to be good at 4K video too I think...you probably don't actually want such a 4K DSLR, you just want an FS7 for $3500 and I don't blame you.

The theory is the FS7 sensor is the same as the FS700 sensor, which loses color rapidly at high ISO. There is only 18dB of gain available over a base ISO of 2000, so that yields ISO 12000 if my math is right. Nowhere near the C100's/A7s's ISO100K or whatever it is. Realtime NR is how they do that btw.

I think Canon has to do something and NAB may be too late. There is only one 4K transition in history and this is it right now. Buying decisions are being made and Sony has a camera that, coupled with adapters like the Speedbooster, checks just about every box. I have enjoyed my C100/Ninja rig since the day it first shipped but I wouldn't buy it now most certainly, even now over $2000/20% discounted from when I got it. It still has a few advantages over the FS7 but certainly not enough to sway purchase. I even think the FS7 shoulder ergonomics are much better, the EVF and handle arm are included for the $8K.

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EOS Bodies / Re: A Surprise Cinema EOS Announcement for Photokina? [CR1]
« on: September 13, 2014, 05:04:24 AM »
Of course this rumor is the panicked response to the FS7...trying to stave off the inevitable mass migration unless Canon has something else to say. Sony is dismantling Canon piece by piece, and Sigma, Tamron, Tokina, Zeiss, and Samyang have put a big dent in their glass sales. What can Canon do?

Key to the FS7 is the E mount, it can be adapted to anything bigger including PL, Canon, and Nikon. The Metabones Speedbooster (now with a high end Ultra version) gives super 35 a full-frame look and speed. The CX00's still have better low-light than the FS7 even though they are super 35, but not as good as the A7s low-light. However the A7s has miserable rolling shutter.

Combining all of these factors it's clear the sensor Canon must develop for the next Cinema line is full frame with a global shutter option. Some will still prefer super 35 with PL mount but that's not Canon's glass strength. EOS-M mount failed bitterly and can't host full-frame. No Speedbooster can be used with the EF flange distance. So Canon has to provide a full frame option for full frame look and low-light capability...there's no choice. And because it's so slow to read out of such a sensor it needs global shutter to avoid the jello.

That might preclude HFR so they may have an HFR camera that's super 35 and does at least 1080p240 and hopefully 4K120 or at least 4K60 like the FS7 can. Canon also must settle on a storage format (Cfast?) and codec (AVC-Uktra?) that has likely been holding them up all this time.

I like Canon but Sony has better offerings in every form factor other than the 1DX. The RX series, the A7's, the FS7...they have bet the company on video and it's a formidable company. One hopes Canon is ready to go with a new line because I couldn't recommend them anymore.

11
Well now that we are aware of this technique, we should examine the DR claims of other video manufacturers to see if this is how they're doing it. The tell-tale would be aliasing effects on high-contrast diagonals.

Which shows you how important chart tests are, and how bizarre it is that there still isn't a site that does consistent and reproducible chart tests for the entire range of video cameras. At the cost of these things, we have a right to know.

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EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Firmware - Canon EOS C100
« on: July 01, 2013, 05:50:40 PM »
In fact it's purely the 18-135 STM...the 40mm pancake does not autofocus or auto-iris (yet).

This strictly was a way for Canon to tell ENG they had a solution in the C100, for everything but power zoom. It's apparently a good solution. Maybe I will even pick up one of those lenses with the 70D kit on a Xmas special. But it's not a parfocal lens sadly and it will be October before the firmware offering movable mag assist appears, which is our next chance to have e.g. the 40mm pancake supported. The 'cake would be good for steadicam AF use, nice & light.

13
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List
« on: June 27, 2013, 03:06:36 PM »
Might be a nice reach companion to the 5D3 at $1000 intro or thereabouts. If it's only a stop better DR than the 60D that's not so great but passable.

With the articulating screen it may be nice for video too. The critical question will be the downsampling: it's not 3x3 binning as the sensor isn't the 22.3MP of the 5D3. So one wonders if it's still 1st-gen line skipping or if they are using that Digic5+ and giving it the downsampling of the 1DX. Also, not clear if it does clean HDMI. I imagine it has all the 700D autofocus features and touch screen doodads.

At 7fps I doubt it's the SD card speed of the 5D3's SD slot. I would imagine it has fast writes, hopefully fast enough for a ML RAW video hack...

14
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III with Continuous RAW Video Recording
« on: May 22, 2013, 04:18:43 PM »
ACR workflow in Photoshop:

http://www.cinema5d.com/?p=18065

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EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: ALL-I or IPB?
« on: May 21, 2013, 11:07:52 PM »
Yes I think a lot of the lore about ALL-I being better had to do with NLEs or post workflows where the rendering of IPB frames wasn't very good. On FCPX you can't tell the difference, but of course FCPX is an all-new state-of-the-art rendering engine (even though many like to think it's still in its launch state feature set).

ALL-I vs. IPB is sort of old news though with clean HDMI and Magic Lantern RAW available. I predict ML will develop further powers (using better internal codecs, higher resolutions, if not higher framerates) for the 5d3 that will even make clean HDMI a nonstarter. Right now in practical use I would use the Ninja 2 with the 1.2.1 firmware, but note, the screen on the Ninja 2 takes about a half second to update the image, which can affect focus pulling a bit. This lag is NOT present for the C100's clean HDMI. The C100 is really the camera I would recommend for video unless you must have stills in the same body.

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