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Messages - Don Haines

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1
EOS Bodies / Re: Photokina 2014
« on: July 29, 2014, 10:47:16 PM »
So, Photokina in September, what do we expect to see ?

I'm not expecting all, just some...

Canon EOS 7D MkII with 24mpx and next gen 70D AF tech
Canon EOS 750D with a 18mpx sensor and trimmed down 70D AF tech
Canon EOS M3 with same sensor and AF as 750D

Lol Canon 18Mpx sensor made it to most rubbish bottom model 1200D. Why do you expect they repeat this and put the same sensor into 750D and M3?
If they put in an 18Mpixel sensor, who says that it is the same old sensor?

Safe bets for the future is that ALL of Canon's new DSLR sensors will be DPAF. Keep in mind that one of the reasons why the 7D2 has been delayed so long is that they are having problems manufacturing the sensor. (statement by Canon executive) They have no problems making the 70D sensor, so why is this one any different? They should be able to churn them out easily.... plus the camera will not sell as many units as a lower priced 70D so volume should not be a problem....

The most likely explanation is that there is new technology involved (also said by a Canon executive). This is either a new fabrication process, a new way of doing things, or most likely, both. I expect to see finer lithography and the migration of the A/D circuitry onto the sensor. This should give slightly better efficiency and lower the noise level.... and that's a big thing! drop the noise by two stops and you should be able to 5D3 IQ out of your crop camera. Of course, if this happens then the 5D4 will get the same treatment and the 2 stop advantage will be restored.

This has to happen..... it is only a matter of time. The big question is if the time is now?

An extra 2 stops on my current 5dMK3 - that'd be very interesting.
The DR of a camera is the ratio of the signal to the noise.... if you want to improve it you either need more light or less noise. It's the superior A/D system on the Nikons that gives them more DR than the Canon cameras and there is nothing to say that Canon can't improve theirs. Even with the same way of doing things, moving it onto the sensor will get rid of some noise and improve things. If they institute a system with an A/D converter on each row of the sensor, they will be able to drastically drop the frequency they run at... and that allows for a more accurate/less noisy design. Who knows.... they may even go to 16 bit A/D..

I have test equipment at work that has 32 bit A/D running at 60Ghz and some that has 48 bit A/D running at "only" 42Ghz. the requirements of A/D in cameras are trivial in comparison and they should have no problems improving the design.

2
It's certainly on my wish list. I was planning to go for a Hero 2, but with the announcement of the Hero 3, the 3 Black Edition seems to be the one for me!

Yeah, i ordered the black one bcause i thought the wireless remote and better low light might come in handy.  I really cant wait to try out ths camera, it has so many features and capabilities for $400.  Underwater and time lapse in places where i dont want to risk my 5d3 and L glass.
Yeah.... my friend would not let me put her 5D2 and 24-70 on my stunt kite :)

I have been playing around a lot lately with time lapse photography on it... it is quite the toy!

3
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: DXO uh-oh?
« on: July 29, 2014, 10:12:44 PM »
jrista,

If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to get a walk through of your post processing. You mentioned using DeepSkyStacker and PixInsight to boost the DR of your files. I'd love to get a a step-by-step look at what you do. Thank you!

+1

I'd love to see it too!

4
EOS Bodies / Re: Photokina 2014
« on: July 29, 2014, 10:04:29 PM »
So, Photokina in September, what do we expect to see ?

I'm not expecting all, just some...

Canon EOS 7D MkII with 24mpx and next gen 70D AF tech
Canon EOS 750D with a 18mpx sensor and trimmed down 70D AF tech
Canon EOS M3 with same sensor and AF as 750D

Lol Canon 18Mpx sensor made it to most rubbish bottom model 1200D. Why do you expect they repeat this and put the same sensor into 750D and M3?
If they put in an 18Mpixel sensor, who says that it is the same old sensor?

Safe bets for the future is that ALL of Canon's new DSLR sensors will be DPAF. Keep in mind that one of the reasons why the 7D2 has been delayed so long is that they are having problems manufacturing the sensor. (statement by Canon executive) They have no problems making the 70D sensor, so why is this one any different? They should be able to churn them out easily.... plus the camera will not sell as many units as a lower priced 70D so volume should not be a problem....

The most likely explanation is that there is new technology involved (also said by a Canon executive). This is either a new fabrication process, a new way of doing things, or most likely, both. I expect to see finer lithography and the migration of the A/D circuitry onto the sensor. This should give slightly better efficiency and lower the noise level.... and that's a big thing! drop the noise by two stops and you should be able to 5D3 IQ out of your crop camera. Of course, if this happens then the 5D4 will get the same treatment and the 2 stop advantage will be restored.

This has to happen..... it is only a matter of time. The big question is if the time is now?

5
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: DXO uh-oh?
« on: July 29, 2014, 06:18:39 PM »
Hmm, I smell a troll ;-)

I think you smell someone who blew £19,000 changing and is determined to believe it was worth it.


If I had £19,000, I could invest it at a rate of return that would allow me to buy 6 beers per day forever..... My photography wouldn't be any better, but I'd be too drunk to care :)

6

Many other places including many in the United States. Also, I love the idea of going into space. I could be the first economist in space!
It's far more likely that there will be lawyers in space long before economists..... a lot of people would like to see a bunch of lawyers on top of a 300 foot tube filled with high explosives and launched into somewhere where there is no air to breathe :)

7
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: DXO uh-oh?
« on: July 29, 2014, 04:44:34 PM »
There are two things that we can't forget. The first is that technology marches on. The steps are not even... sometimes there are incremental improvements that are almost indistinguishable from what came before, sometimes they go in leaps. The Nikon/Sony sensors took a jump ahead in quality a few years ago... now they are the hot ticket. In comparison, Canon has had several years of tiny incremental improvements and are long overdue for a jump. That Jump may very well be the 7D2 with DPAF, on sensor A/D, finer lithography, etc etc... They know what they have to do to jump ahead and they are not idiots.... it will be done at some point and then Canon fanboys will be able to rightfully sneer at Nikon fanboys. And I expect that in another few years it will be Nikon jumping back into the lead.... and then Canon.... and then Nikon.... and so on....

The second thing you can't forget is that a camera is more than the sensor. While Nikon has been fixated on it's sensors, Canon has been fixated on it's focusing system. The end result is that the AF system on Canons is far more capable than on Nikons.... The people at Nikon are not idiots... you can bet that they are working on ways to counter this and that the next few rounds of their cameras will have better and better AF systems.

and getting back to the main topic, DXO...
DXO ratings are biased. period. The camera ratings are biased towards DR. The lens ratings are biased towards T-stops. I doubt that anyone would argue that no such bias exists because it is prominently shown in their numbers. Is it a pro-Nikon bias or an anti-Canon bias? Odds are no, the bias is there because that's what the people who came up with the rating scheme believe in... It is very easy to look at things and believe great conspiracy theories, but it is far more likely that things are the way they are because that is the easiest way to do things.

We all have different likes and different needs and there are various genres of photography. A simple rating scheme ending up with a magic number is not a good solution.... but it is an easy solution. A far better solution would be for the user to be able to enter in weights for the various parameters to reflect their needs... but this solution is far more complicated to set up and has even greater potential to give poor results unless the user has a solid grasp of the subject..... in which case, they don't need that rating number anyway.

8
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: DXO uh-oh?
« on: July 29, 2014, 02:45:52 PM »
I've no doubt that the D800 and D810 are good for landscape work - having all those extra megapixels, and I don't think anyone here disputes that Nikon is better at base ISO (I only know this from reading this forum). They may well be the best full frame cameras for this purpose, I don't know (I don't do much landscape work).

But to claim Canon is bad at ISO 100 is hyperbole. And to claim the 5D3 is 'painterly' at ISO 800 (or just over) is... perplexing. It's a subjective term of course. But the raw files look good much higher than that - depending on what and how you shoot. I find bird photos can look okay up to ISO 6400-8000 - using the technique of slightly overexposing and then reducing the brightness later (to reduce shadow noise) - and I'm very happy with results at ISO 3200.

Exactly!
Whatever you go for now is way better than just a few years ago... Anyone want to buy my Olympus E-300? ISO 400 was as high as you would shoot at, 800 was tearful, and now a GoPro takes better quality stills.....

I am currently shooting with a 60D... ANY Canon/Nikon/Sony/Panasonic/Olympus DSLR or mirrorless out now beats it for IQ, yet somehow I keep getting great pictures with it......

9
Animal Kingdom / Re: Your best animal shots!
« on: July 29, 2014, 12:29:44 PM »
Found this fellow on a hike in CO.

well done! I like how you have the shot framed with the scalloping of the ice behind and the blue of the ice below.

10
Animal Kingdom / Re: Your best animal shots!
« on: July 29, 2014, 11:43:50 AM »

11
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: DXO uh-oh?
« on: July 29, 2014, 10:33:09 AM »
You realize this argument will be pointless when the 7D2 comes out with the 120Mpixel sensor, ISO 204,800, and 18 stops of dynamic range.... :)

12
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: DXO uh-oh?
« on: July 29, 2014, 07:27:46 AM »
I'm a long time reader, first time poster, but I have to address Neuro here.

I had the Canon D60, the D400, the 5D Mk1, 2, and the 3 for about 2 months till I decided that it was a huge disappointment after waiting 3 years for the successor to the wonderful Mk2.

I went to the D800 and spent 12 grand switching, and I never looked back. Crop modes, clean shadows and highlights and DR were the main attractions.

Images from my D800 look like drum scans from MF/LF film, and that's the first time I'd seen a digital camera hit that goal.

Neuro is a god here, and he's an intelligent guy, of that there is no mistake, but when it comes to the reality between Canon and everyone else, he abandons his normally cogent posts and reverts to fan boy mode.

I loved my Canon gear, and up until 2012 it was the best gear I could buy for my business without going MF.

The D800 killed anything Canon had as far as pure IQ went with the D800.

Is that even up for debate now as I await my D810 to arrive? Only here it seems.

I've found in 2 years of D800 use that DXO scores for the sensors are pretty much on the money from what I've observed by taking tens of thousand of Canon and Nikon photos.

The Mk2 sensor, that is maybe half my folio (www.deanagar.com.au) is scored accurately. It was great for 2008, no question. I loved that camera.

The DXO score for the D800 I'd have to agree with, as i would with the Mk3 which I had for a depressing 2 months when it was released. Soft video and the same old read noise that Canon can’t get rid of.

Ergonomically it was the best camera I'd ever owned, but IQ is what I'm after and I can take the loss of a rate button and, camera setting memories and nice menus to get the elusive film level IQ of the D800.

It makes the Mk2 and Mk3 look very average, and sometimes downright poor. Read noise, lack of recoverable highlights and shadows, and poor 100ISO performance are lacking in the Canon sensors.

Is there anyone on the planet that doesn't accept that as fact, except many people on here?

The reality of the camera industry has changed and Canon isn't even 2nd best when it comes to sensors anymore.

The best sensors are Sony, the 2nd best are Nikon designed/Sony made sensors, and I'm not sure Canon even come third anymore.

I'm sad about that, it cost me a lot of money to jump ship, but I deal with reality, not what I want reality to be.

I wanted Canon to release a sensor that could match the D800, and 28 months after I got the D800, that still hasn't happened.

I will say, I'm not a high ISO shooter, so limitations of the D800 don't worry me, but then if I had to shoot 3200-12800 for my pro work, I'd get a D4s, so Canon still don't get a look in for a Canon fan like myself.

Neuro is a very smart guy, his knowledge is amazing, but he has a blind spot and it's the kind of a blind spot a 16 year old fan boy has.

Canon are a great company, and have advanced digital photography more than any other company in the scheme of things, but they have lost their way, and in 2014, that hasn't changed yet.

Focus on product delineation by hobbling their stills cams to sell more of their video cams, and insisting on releasing the same old sensors in new bodies over and over and over has taken a lot of industry respect away from them, that’s for sure.

The 70D focus system? Stunning. That’s the canon of old. Shame it was added to the same old sensors with read noise and low DR. I’d love that on My Gh4 and D810, that’s for sure.

My professional photographer friends are jealous of the D800 and they haven't made the leap to Sony or Nikon because they have faith that Canon will deliver something that has 14-15 stops of DR, and no read noise, but so far, they are frustrated, and I have two years of photos with both while they lament the lack of sensor development at Canon.

So back to the good guy Neuro and DXO.

I don't give a flying toss how DXO arrive at their scores, they seem to back up my personal experience with Canon and Nikon, and everyone else i know using Canon and Nikon, which amounts to a lot of pro, APPA winners.

On my FB buddy list are the Australian Fashion Photographer of the Year, the Australian Commercial Photographer of the Year, and the Australian Nature and Science Photographer of the Year, so I’m in decent company, although I’m still only an APPA winner and not a category winner.

Yet :-)

I see people here ask what shots couldn’t be taken on a Canon. Well, I took a few shots in New Zealand that were handheld on my honeymoon that are good examples. I won Loupe awards and other awards and they couldn't have been taken on a 5D Mk3 without going to HDR techniques.

They were single frames on a D800.

http://www.deanagar.com.au/tag/landscape-photography-brisbane-gold-coast-new-zealand/

With over 14 stops at 100 ISO (14.8 at 32ISO on the D810 it would appear) that is the same as a 3 shot 1 stop bracketed 5D Mk3 shot. That’s a big difference for landscape photographer to get something in one shot that would take a Canon 3 bracketed shots.

I’m not even a pro landscape photographer. I’m a people photographer, and occasional commercial photographer, but all the advantages of the D800 apply to any photography really.

What am i trying to say in this long rambling post :-)

Neuro, you’re a smart guy and I read your insights with enthusiasm, except when it comes to Nikon/Canon.

A bit of an open, or even neutral, mind would benefit your standing when it comes to those types of posts.

I’ve shot with both, for around 7 years professionally, and I wouldn’t touch a Canon if I had the choice of a D800.

I can’t give up clean shadows and over 14 stops at 100 ISO, even if my heart is really with Canon due to my history with them.

I want them to blow everyone out of the water and deliver a killer high MP, hi DR sensor and give me my well missed rate button back.

But life goes on, and Canon have a following that means they are still the number one as far as sales go due to their reputation from prior to 2012, and I guess that won’t change for 2-3 years yet, so they have time to get it right.

But lets not deny reality.

If they don’t catch up, a good brand name is not going to last forever.

Well said!
Welcome to Canon Rumours.

BTW, as a user of multiple brands, I have been telling people for years when they ask about cameras to think of how/what/where they will use the camera before they look at specific brands or models... and to look at the whole package of camera/lens/flash/accessories. For me, the general rule of thumb for cameras is if you shoot action, go for Canon..... if you shoot studio or landscape, go for Nikon.... and if portability counts above all else, go Panasonic/Olympus/Sony... I think that Nikon has the best sensors and that Canon has the best AF.... People have to choose the camera that best meets their needs and to take other people's opinions with a grain of salt.

If there was such a thing as "the best camera", the maker would have the market cornered....

13
I've been to the Canadian Arctic a few times for work also. I agree with you on winter time. I think the best place to go is Pangnirtung (Nunavut) during summer.
That's a trip I would love to do... The hike across the park is supposed to be astounding!

14
1. Space station (Just a dream)
2. South Africa Safari
3. The Arctic.
I've been to the Canadian Arctic about a dozen times for work. Travel tip: Don't go in the winter if you want to do photography.... wait till spring when the sun comes up above the horizon and the temperatures climb up into the -40's or higher :)

The picture is of Resolute... I spent a winter there and this was taken in April at -50C with my trusty OM-1 that would work in the worst cold.....

15
Iceland
Northern Labrador
Haines Lake :)

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