I am more interested in ISO and DR, than in "new AF".
This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.
I'm curious why you think the 6D even remotely qualifies as competition to the 7D line. The two are radically different parts. The 7D line is all about performance and reach. It has a high frame rate (currently 8fps, rumors put 7D II at 10fps), a higher end AF system (19pt all cross type, rumors put the 7D II at 61pt same as 1D X), a much deeper frame buffer, and a load of other bells and whistles.
2 CPUs - true: they could be either DIGIC 5+ and yet since they have DIGIC 6 it would be better at the same PRICE to put the new one.
Well, I just did the math in a reply to another answer. Here it is again. Assuming some extra masked pixels, ~8%, then we have two sensors with "real" pixel counts of 22.7mp and 26mp. Assuming 14-bit, then the numbers work out as:WOW! I actually learned something new... for which I am very, very thankful!
22,700,000 * 14 / 8 * 10 = 398mb/s
26,000,000 * 14 / 8 * 10 = 455mb/s
I did calculations in another thread, and I came to the conclusion that each DIGIC5+ chip is capable of processing at a throughput rate of 250mb/s. A pair of them, interleaved as they are in the 1D X, would offer 500mb/s throughput. A pair of DIGIC5+ in the 7D II should be plenty to support a 10fps frame rate at either 21mp or 24mp.
Why not?!?! 5D3 had nothing innovative. It was updated 5D2... For me the only different between 1Dx, 5D3 & 6D is the Speed... AF... you say... 1DX - yes... the rest NO!
Price is a matter of demand, not consumer desire for status. Canon has extremely high demand for their cameras, regardless of their technological status. The percentage of camera owners who care about the minutia of a manufacturers technology is extremely small relative to the total camera buying populace. High demand drives higher prices more than any other factor, with perhaps base commodity (materials) prices and import/export tariffs being close seconds.
Um...did you actually READ my post? Canon isn't milking anyone. Market factors over the last five years have pushed commodity prices very high. Even after the recent "crash", they are still quite high, only pulling back to prices from about two years ago (which is considerably higher than they were for the first half of the first decade of the 21st century.)Come one! PLEASE! Digital photography was a risky business with bad image and results compared to traditional photography back then in the "first half of the first decade of the 21st century"! Hardly could you even think of comparing prices then and now.
Companies don't just sit pretty and "milk" their customers...if the customer thinks the price is too high, they won't buy, and the natural consequence of that is that prices come down. People were more than willing to pay $3500 for a 5D III, and have been more than willing to pay as much as $13,000 for a nice telephoto lens.CHOICES??? - you mean LACK OF CHOICES. What should have people bought (did I use the correct tense here!?!? ) when there was ONLY 5D3 and 1DX...? An OLD body? Buying in most cases is an incentive of upgrade. NOw don't tell me if you were a regular Joe you would buy your kids a 5D3 to have fun with?!? I even don't want to speculate what would have happened if 2 months after the 5D3, the 7D2 have come out... That is why we are currently in the "evolution" game.
Those are consumer CHOICES! It has nothing to do with a corporation milking its customers for all they are worth. Canon has to sell at what the market demands, and so long as they can sell and still make a profit, if the MARKET demands a lower price, then a lower price will be had.
...better ISO thanks to some of the improvements that found their way into the 1D X, 5D III, and 6D (more translucent CFA and higher SNR) supporting ISO 25600 (and clean ISO 1600 output), and maybe a process shrink to 180nm (to demonstrate Canon is and will be a competitive force in the DSLR world going forward).
Why do things NEED to be "revolutionary"? I mean, what exactly does "revolutionary" get you over "evolutionary"?DEVELOPMENT! Evolution is NO TREND SETTER. Evolution is for followers.
...Yeah! That is why NIKON & SONY are ahead on the DR. Do you want me to remind you whose CMOS is on the top places on DXo?
Sony made one extra leap, from analog readout to digital readout. Revolutionary? Or Evolutionary? Hard to say, although personally, I feel it was part of a continual chain of evolutionary progress that has been occurring for years on the sensor front.
So, if Canon continues to build on their own knowledge in the realm of sensor design and manufacture...and if they reuse some of the improvements they first introduced with the 1D X and 5D III...that would be grounds for you NOT being interested in the 7D II? Seriously?Yeah for sure! I want all the features set by NIKON as a trend for some time before BOTH 1Dx and 5D3. And by-the-way... which "specific" feature of 5D3 should I be interested in? The FF?
.... An 18mp APS-C 7D II on a 180nm process would have a fairly considerable benefit in terms of FWC over the 18mp APS-C 7D I. That alone would improve noise performance. Improved CDS, on-die readout and digital conversion, column parallel readout, etc. all of which would be possible or more plausible with a process shrink, could also have a significant impact on IQ, reducing noise considerably, potentially even to D800 levels.Using CANON technology from 2007? How inspiring! March 2012 is the street date of D800. And its current price is $2,796.95. Do you want to bet that if CANON (hopefully) have FINALLY implemented the 180nm in their CMOS the price would be above (AT LEAST) $3k. We are promised to have 8/10 fps as well
A 90nm process in a digital sensor would compound the benefits of moving to a 180nm process!Ahym if finaly this year we are to get 180nm that would make 90nm somewhere in the mid-summer of 2018?
There is plenty of room for Canon to be "revolutionary". Even if they continue to apply the advancements they made with the 1DX, 5D III, and 6D...they can STILL be "revolutionary", and can still apply some radical improvements to their next sensors.APPLY is one nice key word. The "advancement" please read as "following the competitors". The NIKON 4D was in February 2012 on the streets. The 1DX was in March 2012. Which still makes CANON a FOLLOWER!
Oh yeah, it'll definitely sell. The 7D has been extremely popular, as it fills a fairly unique niche. The 7D II can only be better! How could it not sell?
Because the 6d is there.
In times of 7d & 5d2, the 7d mostly was the most expensive, i.e. "best" model in many stores, so people who wanted something "good" or "solid" were talked into buying that. Whith the 6d price on the decline, they'll probably buy ff quality & wifi/gps instead of 7d2 aps-c features a casual shooter doesn't need.
There are an awful lot of us that seem to be waiting on the 7D2. It will sell.
+1 ... If the ISO performance is better, it would interest me immensely.
\BTW, I'm not sure of the physics but what sort of processing power would a 21/24MP @ 10 fps require?
...One thing is for sure. 5D3 owners will be up in arms over anyone who posts that their new 7D2 is the superior camera...When it comes to Canon fanboys, you just don't mess with the 5D3.
Agreed. I feel though that the 7DII will come very close OR may even better the 5D3 under good lighting conditions. High ISO will however, be a different story.
Price is a matter of demand, not consumer desire for status. Canon has extremely high demand for their cameras, regardless of their technological status. The percentage of camera owners who care about the minutia of a manufacturers technology is extremely small relative to the total camera buying populace. High demand drives higher prices more than any other factor, with perhaps base commodity (materials) prices and import/export tariffs being close seconds.Hell yeah! That is what I call MILKING the Canon glass owners. :-(
.all for a price that is closer to $2k than $3k
CarlTN, stop scaring me with $3K price lets not even go there ... I want 7D II for around $1600 ... but if the 7D II is released in an APS-H sensor then I will gladly pay up $3K.
I really don't foresee a $3000+ 7D II. Logically, it just wouldn't fit within Canon's lineup. If Canon really is trying to restructure their DSLR offerings, returning the xxxD line to the entry-level realm in the sub-$1000 market, restoring the xxD line to semi-professional grade status in the $1500 market, and placing the 6D at the entry-level/prosumer FF market around $2000, then it seems logical that the 7D II would fill in the gap between the 6D and the 5D.
I see it getting a reasonable feature update...a sensor in the 20-25mp range, 61pt AF (assuming that AF sensor will work for an APS-C crop frame...we might see something like a 41pt AF unit instead, which would still be fantastic!), a higher frame rate (10fps, keeping it in line with the 7D/1D IV ratio relative to the 1D X)...
...better ISO thanks to some of the improvements that found their way into the 1D X, 5D III, and 6D (more translucent CFA and higher SNR) supporting ISO 25600 (and clean ISO 1600 output), and maybe a process shrink to 180nm (to demonstrate Canon is and will be a competitive force in the DSLR world going forward).What do you mean!?!?
So...again...why are people going to pay $2700 for a body that is hobbled by such a small sensor size? Because "aps-c"-specific lenses are superior to full frame lenses? Get friggin real, never going to happen, the physics are against it. Because they just will? Ok. Maybe they will buy because of the "cool factor", and because it's the Canon name and reputation behind it. Or maybe they won't buy as many as Canon would like. Time will tell.
One thing is for sure. 5D3 owners will be up in arms over anyone who posts that their new 7D2 is the superior camera...When it comes to Canon fanboys, you just don't mess with the 5D3.
Diko ... WOW, 9 quotes in one post ... Impressed. Man I struggle with just a couple of quotes, screwing up and modifying my posts most of the time.
Quote... Sony is developing new A-mount cameras that can outperform the competition. The status quo between Nikon-Sony-Canon is over. Sony wants to become “serious” and start a real war in the camera market. The A78 simply was good but not really a game changer camera.
That's the kind of approach I wish all camera makers would adopt. Obviously, investors in Canon are happy with extreme utilization of technologies long ago paid for, but the USERS of that equipment who are currently invested and are looking for a substantial upgrade are left out in the cold.
If Sony can put out glass as good as Canon's and produce image quality on par as well - I see no reason not to go with the innovative company. Especially when in-body IS is baked right in to the experience and EVERY lens gets IS. And that's why I won't buy a refreshed 60D - no "game changing" features.
Want to force Canon to innovate? Don't buy into everything they release.Don't buy?!? Are you sure I should stick to your advice with my 40D and needs for night and low-light scene shooting?
Read what I wrote. I was shooting with a retail-bought 5DIII for a long time before you could even place a pre-order for the 1DX.
Plus, you've just acknowledged that the 5DIII's autofocus and low light performance is second only to Canon's most ultimate ever flagship camera. And yet it's still an insignificant marginal improvement over the 5DII? Please. At least have the decency to keep your trolling consistent....
Why are you so sure. I have quite different opinion. According to my observations quite a few from the PROs, no matter if they use it as first or second body, need Shutter replacement.
Shutter lifecycle is irrelevant. Almost nobody ever wears out a shutter on any DSLR...?
Dual memory card slots are irrelevant to all but a very small minority of shooters.Again - where do you get your conclusions from? AFAIK almost every wedding Photographer is obsessed to have dual memory slots.
My problem is with Canon's dis-respect of the vast majority of their customers.
If it wasn't for xxxD an xxD sales there would be no R&D money to support xD development.
If only Canon would announce they had a 21mp sensor with the same or better low light high ISO low noise capabilities as that other mob, That would be worth hearing.
My 15.1mp Canon 50d was awfully noisy. This sensor would have to do better.
I too am hoping that Canon's next generation of APS-C sensors has better high ISO performance, but it's not like the current 18mp sensor is significantly worse than the current Nikon offerings.
18 MP. 21 MP. 24 MP. Even 15 MP. Frankly, I don't especially care. If it does a full stop or more better in terms of high ISO noise performance for RAW images vs. the 7D, a 7DII will be interesting to me. If not, no interest.
Better high ISO performance is a must. Usable ISO at and above 3200 is key... I have the ISO max on my 7D set at 1600. Anything higher I have to render in B&W to be usable.
I wonder will we see DIGIC 6, or dual fives in the 7DII? Not sure how adding more pixels to either camera will improve anything. I guess it's not a huge jump though I can't see the high ISO looking any better than it does now on a 7D. Wish they'd stick with 18mp and just aim at improving image quality but then where's the marketing strategy? Numbers sell.They could pull it off with the Dual Digic 5plus.. that wouldn't be bad. Dual Digic 6 may be a screamer though! Looking forward to some Cr2 rumors!
They might use dual 5+ again this time, but I still have my hopes up for Digic 6.
A considerable delay on a model could mean they've put Digic 6 on it.
FWIW, I bet we're gonna be seing 2x 5+ on the 7dmk2, and digic 6 on the 70D.
Regardless of MP count I would buy it (probably during Christmas time) ... 3 features I care about are:
a. better ISO performance
b. in-built HDR
c. ability to do at least 5 bracketed shots.
1. If a camera is due for release in the next six months, they wouldn't be making decisions about what is going to be in the camera. They know already and have already made that decision. If they haven't then the camera will take longer than 6 months to come to market.
ALL OF THIS STUFF IS SPECULATION PEOPLE. HEAR SAY. ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE. A DUMPING GROUND FOR PROTOTYPE SPECS THAT WILL NEVER SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY. THIS SITE IS FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT - THAT'S IT. STOP BASING YOUR HAPPINESS OFF OF WHAT YOU READ HERE.Did anyone else hear that?
This camera will be a 6D minus the FF sensor. It will not have dual SD card slots, it will have a 9pt af (1 cross type) and will not have weather sealing like the 7D and Nikon D7100 (though it will be partially metal like the 6D with some sealing).
I very much doubt they will stick a worse af system in the 70D than in the rebel line up. During the 40D and 50D eras they segmented by using the af system as one differentiator after all so to me it'd make most sense to put the 7D af system in there. Especially as the R&D cost will already have happened and production going well.
The 70D, T5i, and SL1 are terrific cameras for those whose needs they meet.Exactly!
Things are even worser: the rumors are that the 7DM2 would be with the 2 of the DIGIC 5s.But you have no idea what has changed from 5 to 6, do you?
the basic design of Canon cpus and the operating system have been the same for the last decade. The digic certainly doesn't fix the sensor.EXACTLY!
DIGIC V (no one has said it will get DIGIC 6)
18mp Sensor (Same as SL1).
.... 8k displays actually exist.What would you use that for? Your eye can't make the difference... For a PRO - OK where a lot process can be executed on a HUGE SCREEN - only possible application.