April 23, 2014, 03:29:10 AM

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Messages - Orangutan

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1
Photography Technique / Re: Am I the only one this has happened to?
« on: April 22, 2014, 01:17:18 AM »

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Quote from: johnrudoff@yahoo.com on April 21, 2014, 11:44:14 AM
Remember that you have every right to shoot whatever is publicly available

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And they have the right to insult and berate you for it; neither is civil.  If you wish to claim every millimeter of the law, you must concede to others the same.


Orangutang, I must respectfully disagree with you. It is correct that I have the right to shoot whatever is publicly available. And onlookers (including police or security guards) do have the right civilly and politely to ask me about my activities. But they do not have the right to threaten, harass, detain, intimidate, or in general cause fear or disruption to me. If I as a reasonable person (and I do NOT mean those professionally-offended professional victims) am intimidated or made fearful by an insulting or berating onlooker, I have the right to be free of that intimidation. (The handout on the adkins website is quite clear on this point.)


I said "insult and berate," not "threaten."  Of course, exercise of free speech rights does not exempt anyone from other applicable laws.  But then, engaging in photography doesn't exempt anyone from other applicable laws either.

The US Supreme Court gives wide latitude to free speech:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snyder_v._Phelps

In short, someone is legally entitled to come up to you and call you all manner of nasty names for any reason, or for no reason.  So long as it doesn't cross that magic, legal line, it's "free speech."

If you want to stand on the law as written and decided by the courts, it applies both ways.  If you want to celebrate your own right to engage in activities that some people would find offensive and intrusive, you should be prepared to celebrate the rights of others to engage in activities that you find offensive.  My argument, however, is an ethical argument, not legal.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/n/nealboortz210988.html

2
Photography Technique / Re: Am I the only one this has happened to?
« on: April 21, 2014, 12:07:34 PM »
Remember that you have every right to shoot whatever is publicly available

And they have the right to insult and berate you for it; neither is civil.  If you wish to claim every millimeter of the law, you must concede to others the same.


3
Photography Technique / Re: Am I the only one this has happened to?
« on: April 21, 2014, 12:03:56 PM »
You can always wear a burka.  They are fashionable, GREAT in the summer, and hide your face extremely well.

jdramirez does an excellent job of using reductio ad absurdum to illustrate the fact that law has, perhaps, not kept up with modern society.  In our world, one would have to go to extreme, even absurd, measures to be free of the intrusions of wannabe paparazzi with long telephoto lenses.  The image of the burka, with its allusion to the disempowered, evokes the timeless argument that the law only protects those who are aware that their image has been misused, and have the resources to pursue remedy in the courts.

Thank you, jdramirez, for your concise and elegant contribution.

4
Photography Technique / Re: Am I the only one this has happened to?
« on: April 21, 2014, 10:06:19 AM »

Understand the way society has become because of how other people actions they want to error on the side of caution or "bad" instead of giving some slack.  Smart phones are far more prevalent than cameras today and someone walking around with a DSLR and a lens walking openly in public spaces in my opinion does not scream “this person must be up to no good”.    I would have asked did he check all the smart phones in the area to make certain there wasn’t someone taking pictures of his kids because the percentage of that happening would likely be greater. 

It's not about danger... it's about the appearance of danger... The cell phones are tiny and go unnoticed. The DSLR, particularly with a "big white" mounted on it, screams out "look at me" and you get noticed. People have watched so many stupid television shows that they are loosing connection to the real world and have trouble putting things in perspective.

It may be something else: if you take photos of public spaces, and people happen to be in those photos (e.g. museum) then it's OK.  If you zoom in on individuals then it's not OK.  Cell phones don't yet zoom well, and they're slow.  I think people know that if you're in a cell phone photo it shouldn't be a surprise.

5
Photography Technique / Re: Am I the only one this has happened to?
« on: April 21, 2014, 09:16:52 AM »
Also, if a photographer is "free" to take photos in public places, people in the area are equally "free" to express, even in very strong terms, their disapproval of his public photography.  Having a camera in hand does not exempt a person from being the recipient of someone else's "free speech."

Absolutely correct and this is why I said in my previous post that the best response is to just politely respond such as "thanks for the advice" or "I'll keep that in mind".   There is no law prohibiting others from speaking to us, what is in our control is how we respond and react.  Getting angry and/or escalating the situation is what is going to ruin your day.  We live in a society.  There are other people and  we are going to "bump into them from time to time" whether that is in a verbal interaction, a disagreement, a difference of opinion, or even physically bumping into someone.  I just read in the news some kid got shot in the foot because some other kid thought he was cutting into line to buy shoes.  In the words of Chris Rock... "if someone scuffs your Puma, let it slide".

Agreed.

6
Photography Technique / Re: Am I the only one this has happened to?
« on: April 21, 2014, 08:35:05 AM »
That's true also, but different from what I was trying to get at.  When someone comes up to a photographer and demands that you do not take pictures of them, their kids, their dog, etc. and/or demands to see your photos they are acting as though it's their right not to be photographed when in fact the opposite is true.  Legally, the photographer is not prohibited from taking pictures in public.   Harassing someone though by interfering with them, cursing at them, threatening, assaulting, damaging their gear (e.g. hollywood celebs) is in fact prohibited.  The point is people tend to think they have rights they don't actually have and then get irate when they think you're violating those perceived rights.

Social norms are a different matter.  People do feel uncomfortable being photographed and if I noticed someone specifically photographing me whether with a long lens or a smartphone I would feel uncomfortable.  If they kept it up I might ask them to stop but would more likely just walk away.  If they followed me and continued photographing me specifically now they might be crossing a legal line in the sense of harassing me.

So, yes I get your point but I was specifically talking about rights and the law, not social norms.

I'm glad we're mostly in agreement.  My response was partly based on a previous thread on street photography, where at least one person said he likes to get in people's faces to capture their reactions.  In my opinion that's not at all acceptable, and may violate some other aspect of law.  Having a camera in hand does not exempt a person from other laws governing behavior.

Also, if a photographer is "free" to take photos in public places, people in the area are equally "free" to express, even in very strong terms, their disapproval of his public photography.  Having a camera in hand does not exempt a person from being the recipient of someone else's "free speech."


7
Photography Technique / Re: Am I the only one this has happened to?
« on: April 20, 2014, 10:41:30 PM »
People have the right to take pictures in any public place


There's a distinction to be made between what's within your legal rights and what's polite or ethical.  In the U.S., you have the right to go around like Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged and insult everyone you meet, so long as you don't do it in a way that amounts to fighting words.  It is, however, extremely uncivil to do so.  Regardless of your rights, it's uncivil to take photos of people who don't want to be photographed.  The world is not your modeling agency, and its people are not your hired "talent."  Don't treat people as mere scenery in the theater performance that is your life.

8
Photography Technique / Re: Am I the only one this has happened to?
« on: April 20, 2014, 06:38:30 PM »
tell him you are learning photography and taking pictures of the dogs
+1
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... and show him the pictures....
+10

9
EOS Bodies / Re: 1d IV vs. 7D II
« on: April 20, 2014, 05:07:53 PM »
Why on God's green Earth would I compare RAW files with no NR when I never work that way and neither does anyone else?
The 70D is measurably and visibly noisier than the 1D IV. The data backs that conclusion.

Now don't start going Risedal on us, Jon.   ;D

To paraphrase Bailey Quarters, you're both right: the numbers don't lie AND the numbers don't always matter in the final product.  Now, make nice and go back to talking about 7D2's and unicorns.   :P




10
Lenses / Re: Have to make a choice, finally!
« on: April 20, 2014, 10:30:31 AM »
I think the tilt lens will be hard to handle for me. I'm a rookie, not a pro!

Don't underestimate yourself.  See if you can find some videos on Youtube or somewhere that show it in use.  If it still looks too complicated then that's fine.  I've never actually used one, but from what I've read and watched, it appears to be nothing more than a matter of patience.  Rent one if you can before deciding you can't handle it.

11
EOS Bodies / Re: Patent: Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L IS
« on: April 17, 2014, 08:58:53 PM »
That being said, people complaining about a little extra weight really need to grow a pair and hit the gym a little....

My wife takes care of our kids everyday.  Our infant can't even walk yet, and he weighs more than a Canon 800mm f/5.6.  She never complains.

#1 How do your middle-aged parents feel about carrying your infant around for hours?  My guess is there are more middle-aged people buying big lenses than young folks, like you.

#2 People carrying infants don't tromp through marshes, or trudge up hills all day, as do photographers.  You also don't hold your infant at arms length and very steady for focusing.   I concede that diaper changes do sometimes result in brief, arms-length holding, but that's a two-hand operation, and no Infant Stabilization (IS) required.

#3 Your choice of username doesn't speak well of you.

12
EOS Bodies / Re: 1d IV vs. 7D II
« on: April 17, 2014, 09:46:30 AM »
Reading this thread, I can't understand why I never see "sticky" threads on this forum.
 
BTW, I'm sure there are been people who sometimes complain about their 1D IV, but nobody has ever complained about his/her 7DII, so we can induce that the latter is better from a KarlPopperian point of view.

LOL!!   ;D

A wonderful philosophical insight!

13
EOS Bodies / Re: 1d IV vs. 7D II
« on: April 16, 2014, 07:20:02 PM »
And now I feel all proud and geeky and self satisfied that I have go through the time and effort to attempt to make an absolutely meaningless point about something completely unrelated to the original topic.

In other words, a job truly well done!!   ;D

14
EOS Bodies / Re: 7D Mark.II delayed again + 1Dx replacement mentioned.
« on: April 16, 2014, 06:40:00 PM »
News from Reikan Focal ?

Definitely fake: everyone knows the successor to the 1DX will be the 1DY.

15
Canon General / Re: How to remove image information
« on: April 16, 2014, 02:54:19 PM »
I'm trying to upload into Wordpress to create a product
The problem is that it makes the images horizontal

What photo software do you currently have?

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