October 24, 2014, 07:44:04 AM

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Messages - Don Haines

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1
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: How to differentiate crop vs. FF
« on: October 23, 2014, 09:43:44 PM »
In the real world, with the cameras Canon makes now, FF wins the IQ contest in all but one scenario... and that scenario is when you are focal length limited, can't move any closer, have a GREAT lens, and good lighting. Under those conditions (happens a lot with small birds) the quality of your crop pixels is fairly close to your FF pixels, but you have more crop pixels on target so you end up with a better image from the crop camera.  Everywhere else, FF wins.

No, there's another one - when you're magnification (as in macro) limited.

Good point!

Only my and Pit123's crops in this thread don't actually illustrate that to be a crop camera 'advantage' either, certainly not one to base a buying decision on, price, AF fps maybe, but IQ advantage, not so much.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=23224.msg453442#msg453442
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=23224.msg453961#msg453961
To get that crop reach advantage, you need a GREAT lens. A lens like the 100-400 or the Tamron 150-600 is not sharp enough. My tests between a 5D2 and a 60D using those two lenses showed minimal differences in resolving power of distant objects between crop and FF. Using a 100L, crop definitely resolved distance objects better than FF, but it most certainly was not twice as good... maybe 20 or 30 percent better. (no scientific measurements taken, the percentage is a guess)

I am told, no personal experience, that the second generation "Big Whites" will act the same... but however you slice it, to get that crop reach advantage, you need some of the sharpest glass that Canon makes.

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EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: How to differentiate crop vs. FF
« on: October 23, 2014, 09:15:22 PM »
In the real world, with the cameras Canon makes now, FF wins the IQ contest in all but one scenario... and that scenario is when you are focal length limited, can't move any closer, have a GREAT lens, and good lighting. Under those conditions (happens a lot with small birds) the quality of your crop pixels is fairly close to your FF pixels, but you have more crop pixels on target so you end up with a better image from the crop camera.  Everywhere else, FF wins.

No, there's another one - when you're magnification (as in macro) limited.

Good point!

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EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: How to differentiate crop vs. FF
« on: October 23, 2014, 09:03:09 PM »
I don't agree with this "amount of light" argument. Consider a full frame sensor and an APS-C size sensor with pixels the same size as a full frame taking photos with the same lens at the same f-stop and the same distance from the subject. The signal to noise ratio for each pixel in the APS-C sensor will be the same as the S:N ratio as the corresponding pixels in an APS-C sized area of the ff.
True, but the 2.56x greater area of the FF sensor will gather more total light.  Comparing noise at the pixel level isn't the same as comparing noise at the image level.
You lost me on the image level noise, Neuro. It seems that an APS-C sized crop of the FF image and the APS-C image in this case would be identical. The number of photons hitting each pixel is the same and assuming the downstream operations are identical, what's the difference?
Yes, if a FF pixel and a crop pixel are the same physical size (and technology) the individual pixels will be identical in terms of signal and noise.

If both images were shot with the exact same lens, the same settings, and the same distance, the central 40 percent of the FF pixels would be exactly the same as the crop pixels.

In real life, with your equal size pixel scenario, we would try to frame the two pictures the same, so that means either a 1.6X longer lens on the FF camera, or walking closer until the image filled the screen the same. Either way you look at it, that gives you 2.56 times as many pixels of equal quality on the target, so when you "normalize" the FF picture for the same number of pixels as the crop image, you end up with better quality pixels on the FF image. You are choosing between more pixels of the same quality, or the same amount of pixels but of better quality. There is no way for crop to win in that scenario.

In the real world, with the cameras Canon makes now, FF wins the IQ contest in all but one scenario... and that scenario is when you are focal length limited, can't move any closer, have a GREAT lens, and good lighting. Under those conditions (happens a lot with small birds) the quality of your crop pixels is fairly close to your FF pixels, but you have more crop pixels on target so you end up with a better image from the crop camera.  Everywhere else, FF wins.

NOTE that I have left cost out of the factors.... cost will change the point where you become focal length limited, affect lens quality, and may even eliminate FF altogether. If you have $3000 and want to take pictures of distant chickadees, a 7D2 and a Tamron 150-600 is your best bet. If you have $25,000, a 1DX, a 600F4, and a 1.4X or 2X teleconverter will be the best.

4
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: ISO 160 vs. 100
« on: October 23, 2014, 07:55:11 PM »
In my experience, the differences in noise for the full and +1/3rd (push) stops are not really enough to get worried about for current Canon generation cameras. I have noticed that the 2/3rd (-1/3rd or pull) stops are a bit noisier, however it's still usually not enough to worry about.


Older 18mp APS-C parts had more problems with noise, and the 2/3rd pull stops were pretty noisy. I don't know about older FF parts. So long as your using a current model, however, I simply don't worry about it. Canon read noise is high, and it's high no matter what (at lower ISOs)...a third stop change in high read noise isn't going to change things much. At higher ISOs, the shift with third stops is less significant, and so doesn't matter at all.

For both the 5D2 and the 60D you could easily detect the differences in noise with the "dark frame" test, but with actual photos there wasn't any noticeable difference between adjacent 1/3 stops...

5
2)  Her major gripe - no Audio tagging of images.  How many cameras do this?  1Dx, D3?  A nice feature but seriously

There are two very good reasons why there is no audio tagging.... (1) It isn't a phone, and (2) at 10FPS you can't keep up to the camera.

LOL.  Not disagreeing.  I think it is an "interesting featured" I know the 1Dx and some of the flagship Nikons can do this, but seriously, is there another sub $2K DSLR with similar features that includes this?


The fact that Canon and Nikon haven't included this feature in other cameras is what baffles me, especially with the 7D mk2 being touted as a sports/action camera.

Most current DSLRs have the ability to record video, which means they have a built in mic that can record audio.  The 7D mk2 along with the 5D mk3 also have mic inputs which to me means they have the hardware to include this feature, but Canon chose not to include it in the camera's firmware (something the people at Magic Lantern have been able to add in prior cameras).
I probably should have put smiley faces in the post.... it wasn't a serious comment.... particularly the part about audio tagging at 10FPS .....

6
2)  Her major gripe - no Audio tagging of images.  How many cameras do this?  1Dx, D3?  A nice feature but seriously

There are two very good reasons why there is no audio tagging.... (1) It isn't a phone, and (2) at 10FPS you can't keep up to the camera.

7
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: clown* photographer
« on: October 23, 2014, 10:26:50 AM »
And do you feel sufficiently superiour now?

Why do you care what other people use?  If he is happy with the Ipad, great.

that's it >:( I'm selling all my Canon gear and switching to Apple ;D

The best thing about Apple is that you get to upgrade two times a year.... I have been waiting 5 years for a 7D2... If you are suffering from GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome), Canon sucks! No way can you get your weekly fix :(

8
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: clown* photographer
« on: October 23, 2014, 10:23:38 AM »
I went on one of those "Scott Kelby photowalks" a couple of years ago and one lady brought along her iPad. She had some of the nicest pictures of the day....

9
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: What card(s) will you use for the 7DII?
« on: October 22, 2014, 04:32:16 PM »
I have a friend who will travel to NYC on Saturday, and I really hope he has time to pop by B&H. The price they have for two Lexar CF professional 64GB UDMA 7 cards, is (with tax) less than the price of one of those cards in Norway.
B+H is closed on Saturdays :(

10
EOS Bodies / Re: 7d mark II as reviewed by Artie Morris
« on: October 22, 2014, 04:31:04 PM »
and to aquire his skills ;)

The only thing that differentiates Art Morris from a million other photographers is opportunity - he has access (by his own admission) yo lots of tame birds, and the time to exploit them.


I'm sorry, but it's more than simply opportunity. Art has decades of experience and insight that far fewer than "millions" of other photographers have. If you actually read his blog on a regular basis, and read his books, you realize the depth of his experience. If I had all of Arties opportunities, I'm certain I would get better photos...however getting excellent photos every single time is another story. There are subtleties within subtleties within subtleties about bird photography that you learn when Art starts critiquing your work (which is something I do, over on BPN.) You start learning how nuanced getting every single aspect of a bird photo, from lighting and composition down to head angle and eye pointing and everything else.


I'm a decent photographer, and one of those "millions" of other photographers out there who don't very often have the opportunities that Art has. I know for a fact, though that even if I had them, I'd be missing a LOT of the subtleties.

+1, he has great compositions and looks to his shots even though many are a little on the high key side to my taste.  Reading his comments just from the 7D2 posts on his crop and composition choices shows just how much he considers when taking photos.


Yeah, there is a depth of consideration, for sure. The amazing thing is he seems to consider all those things in seconds or less. He also knows how to rebase his exposure every time he moves the lens or the light changes...and his techniques for doing so are amazing, but remembering to do all those things myself, every time I press the shutter button, is not easy. I still forget to rebase my exposure when pointing from one subject to another, where the lighting has likely changed. That sometimes results in hot or blown highlights that are difficult to recover with good detail. There are thousands of little things, nuances, that you have to think about and get correct, all in the timespan of a bird indicating they are going to do something interesting, pointing the lens, basing then adjusting exposure, and actually taking the shot at the right time such that you get everything right. I cannot think about all those small factors and nail it every time. I don't exactly have a lot of throwaways...however I rarely if ever get a photo I could call "Morris-level quality"...VERY rarely.
+1
For me, I get lucky.... for Morris, since every shot can't be getting lucky, there must be a skill involved far beyond my abilities.

11
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: What card(s) will you use for the 7DII?
« on: October 22, 2014, 09:56:08 AM »
I have a drawer full of 32Mbyte CF cards at work....

It would be like the good old days... changing film holders on the 4x5 :) Swap one out for every picture....

12
Reviews / Re: Gizmodo reviews the Canon 7D Mark II
« on: October 21, 2014, 09:52:43 PM »
I'm not too excited about the built in intervalometer since it tops out at 99 shots.
What's that going to give me? A few seconds of TL video?

The Canon website says it takes 1 to 99 shots at preselected intervals but also unlimited.

;)

That would make sense... go for a set number of shots, or run until stopped.... at a 0.5 second interval it should only take me 20 hours and 50 minutes to hit the rated shutter life :)

13
EOS Bodies / Re: 7d mark II as reviewed by Artie Morris
« on: October 21, 2014, 06:10:39 PM »
and to aquire his skills ;)

The only thing that differentiates Art Morris from a million other photographers is opportunity - he has access (by his own admission) yo lots of tame birds, and the time to exploit them.
If it is a tame bird, you are not shooting it with a 600mm lens and a 2X teleconverter... and a crop camera for extra reach.... you are using a 24mm lens :)

Yes! That's the way to do it!
Don, I've seen others from those neck of the woods feeding Chickadees in the palm of their hands. Is it the cold weather and sparseness of food for them that brings out this behaviour, or is it mostly good and patient training?
Patience and a steady supply of food... and works on more than chickadees....

But as said above, if Art Morris is using 1200mms on a crop camera, he is most certainly not dealing with "tame" or habituated birds. If I am quiet and non-threatening, I can get within 30 or 40 feet of a wild duck... but that is exceptionally close. There are several spots I know where people regularly feed the ducks and you can have them a foot or two away.

14
EOS Bodies / Re: 7d mark II as reviewed by Artie Morris
« on: October 21, 2014, 05:21:48 PM »
and to aquire his skills ;)

The only thing that differentiates Art Morris from a million other photographers is opportunity - he has access (by his own admission) yo lots of tame birds, and the time to exploit them.
If it is a tame bird, you are not shooting it with a 600mm lens and a 2X teleconverter... and a crop camera for extra reach.... you are using a 24mm lens :)

15
Animal Kingdom / Re: Your best animal shots!
« on: October 21, 2014, 04:19:32 PM »
Thanks Everyone! If you say nice things you might get more foxes.


wonderful pictures!

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