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Messages - natureshots

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1
Your very basic take-away from this should be nothing other than "Don't use wire transfers."

Agreed - it does seem like an odd way to buy something, especially domestically.  Still, I'm sure the OP has his reasons, didn't want to use a credit card, etc.

I've received wire transfers a few times, as disbursements of stock/option sales - I figure that Morgan Stanley knows how to send one properly).  I did have to wire money once, to pay in advance for lodging in a tiny place on the northern tip of Zanzibar that didn't take credit cards.  I will say that a comment in the other thread about banks not knowing how to handle an outbound wire was my experience - the first three BofA bank employees I dealt with didn't have a clue how to set it up, fortunately there was a real, old-school (and chronologically old, too) bona fide banker there who knew how to process it. Sadly, the gentleman disappeared at the next round of branch closures - sadly typical to pension off the experienced workers and keep the ones at the low end of the pay scale.

The thread was locked with the three final posts being that from Helen Oster. What does that imply? How many other threads are locked on this site?

Lots of them.  Usually because they're going nowhere.

You say you've called Adorama 20-30 times and your bank 5 times.  I think you're barking up the wrong tree.  Your bank sent the wire.  You are their client. Your bank can trace the money trail.  Wire transfers can be recalled.  Yet you're spending the majority of your time complaining about and to Adorama, who arguably has the least power to act on your complaints.

1. People should know what policies and practices the companies they do business with have. If they don't like the policies and practices they should find another business.

2. Posting here is the only way I get any traction with the company. Otherwise I am just some jerk who they can ignore.

Fine, but the transaction wasn't directly between you and Adorama, was it?  But you aren't naming your bank or even complaining about them...why not?  Wrong tree, as I stated. 

You can go ahead and continue blaming Adorama, despite the fact that they're not at fault here.  Know what?  Now that you have your money back, if you try and wire it to B&H and your bank again fails to execute the transaction properly, they'll probably refuse it, too, and your money will disappear for a while again.  Then you can start another complaint thread, and maybe Henry will show up to try and help, and you still won't realize where the real problem lies. But good luck...enjoy your new gear, if you can find someone to take your money...   ::)

After calling my bank I confirmed that I was lied to by Adorama. The money was not refused by them as I was led to believe. They took the money and wired it back days later after I was calling and complaining constantly. Who knows how that would have been handled if I was not on their case. It was a problem with Adorama's account team lying and then refusing to pick up phone calls because they are making mistakes. It was exactly what I initially suspected was going on. It does not take that long for money to be returned to a bank one state away. When they refuse to document their actions its because they are lying and trying to cover it up. My bank may or may not have forgot to put an address but again, I have no documentation and they have thoroughly proved that I cannot take their word. My bank has been helpful, forthright and honest as far as I can tell. I was indeed barking up the right tree by placing blame on Adorama. My bank has earned my trust after years of banking with them. Adorama has proven their dishonesty and ineptitude.

2
I just don't like the way you bash Adorama, as it's clearly not their fault. You would do much better to grime about the US banking system which lags 10+ years behind compared to rest of the world.

Repeated calling Adorama is not going to get you the money back. Calling your bank will help much more.
The bank just received the transfer. Like I said many times, I have called my bank many times checking for the return. It finally came back. I just hope that no one else has to go through this whether Adorama addresses the issues with responding to customers about high value wire transactions or through people shopping elsewhere. It was the sales associates advice that led me to do the transfer and if they are recommending this as a way of doing business they should have some ways of dealing with this issue effectively. Not responding to people who are legitimately worried about large sums of money is not a good business practice.

3
The site administrator has prevented me from continuing to post on the Adorama thread.

To me, this is the heart of the issue.

That thread is locked -- no one can post. The "administrator" has not taken some action against you personally.

While I can be sorry you may be having difficulty reclaiming a lost $27K, the world does not revolve around you. I've read a lot of threads on this site over the years, but I don't recall coming across anyone who can assist you, either financially or psychologically.

If the administrator locks a thread, I can no longer post in the thread. I fail to see where you read some sort of paranoia in that but if you want to go there:

The thread was locked with the three final posts being that from Helen Oster. What does that imply? How many other threads are locked on this site? As a reasonable non-paranoid person what does that tell you that happened here? It's not a conspiracy against anyone, merely people protecting their interests. I don't think the world revolves around me. I expect reciprocity: If I quickly prove to a company that I sent them a large sum of money they should quickly be able to prove that they sent it back. If a company does not reciprocate despite numerous phone calls there is a problem with the company. The internet is a forum for people to publicize their own experiences in viewpoints.

I am posting here not because I think the world revolves around me I am doing it for 2 reasons:

1. People should know what policies and practices the companies they do business with have. If they don't like the policies and practices they should find another business.

2. Posting here is the only way I get any traction with the company. Otherwise I am just some jerk who they can ignore.

4
From your original post in the locked thread:

They then told me that they had refused the wire transfer because there was no address associated with my account.

It's unclear what 'account' you mean - if that refers to the information transmitted with the wire transfer, sounds like your bank is to blame.

If Adorama refused the wire transfer, they don't have your money. As others here have stated, it's somewhere in the banking system. Personally, I think spending $30 to find my $27,000 would be money well spent.

Note that Helen also stated:

According to the OP's bank, the money will appear back in his account tomorrow. A check for $25 is on the way to him, from Adorama,  to cover his wire costs.

So they're compensating you for the wire transfer fee you paid, nice of them if the information associated with the transfer was incomplete.
Initially they refused to compensate me until I posted here. Obviously refusing transfers and not reimbursing the sender is their normal business procedure. I see a problem with that. They have told me that they refused the transfer but frankly I do not believe that is what happened. I been asking for a week for documentation that they did indeed refuse the transfer and they have not provided me with any documentation despite asking multiple times. No one has been able to contact the account team except for Helen (I actually convinced customer service to give me the number for the account team and I tried several times and left messages that were never returned) which makes me think that this guy screwed up and is not admitting to his error while my money sits in their account. If they did actually return it, the money would be in my account by now. I could be wrong but again I have no proof and that is the crux of my problem. I understand that the banking system may be "touchy" or whatever but the fact of the matter is that no one responds to me despite 30 attempts at contacting them except Helen when I'm trying to get money back. When I'm sending them money I get hounded by several calls and emails a day by their rude sales associate Israel. That's a poor way to run a company and problems with a bank do not excuse not responding to a customer wanting to know where their $27K is.

5

I'll say same thing what I said at the previous thread too:

The money is not with Adorama, it's at the banking system and that's where you should go looking for it. Calling/blaming Adorama is not going to help you one bit. Call your bank and demand details on the transaction.

All they can do is put a $30 trace on the money. Fact of the matter is that I have all sorts of proof the money was sent but they have yet to produce anything proving that they have done anything but deposit it. I said that if it is not figured out today that I will be putting a trace on the money. Their bank should be able to do the same but I guess its not $30 important to them.

I have called Adorama customer service between 20-30 times (my bank atleast 5 times). No one but Helen responds to my calls or emails despite customer service promising and failing to contact me at least 5 times. I am posting here because some people on this site make similar high value purchases. I believe they should understand what this company can do before investing their time and money. I am an honest person and not trying to scam a company. When they refused my money they accused me of it. When I talked to a manager afterwards they refused to refund my $25 that I spent on the transfer. The only way I can get any traction on resolving anything is through Helen and this site. Every other time I get no response from them. They should really look into what their policies are and who they are getting to do their customer service besides Helen. I'm sure she is very frustrated by this situation but one honest, earnest person does not make up for the rest of the company that does not seem to care. No one else responds. Keeping a favorable internet presence with a single employee may seem like a profitable way to run a business but it is not an honest one.

6
The site administrator has prevented me from continuing to post on the Adorama thread. My money is still not returned its been a week and a day and they still have not provided proof that they have done a thing with my money. All I get is responses from Helen saying that it will be back... Something is seriously wrong here.
or it is just banks ... I do understand the frustration, but my best guess is that the money is meandering through the banking system right now, which means there is not much Adorama or anyone else can do now until it arrives back in your account. Have you inquired with your bank?
Repeatedly. They have nothing from their bank.

7
The site administrator has prevented me from continuing to post on the Adorama thread. My money is still not returned its been a week and a day and they still have not provided proof that they have done a thing with my money. All I get is responses from Helen saying that it will be back... Something is seriously wrong here.

Just got an email from Helen saying they have no idea where the money is... great...

For those who haven't read the original I have a 27K wire transfer that was mistakenly refused by their verification department. They "refused" my money 8 days ago although it took one business day (Friday to Monday to reach their account.

8
The site administrator has prevented me from continuing to post on the Adorama thread. My money is still not returned its been a week and a day and they still have not provided proof that they have done a thing with my money. All I get is responses from Helen saying that it will be back... Something is seriously wrong here.

9
Reviews / Re: Horrible experience with Adorama camera
« on: June 07, 2013, 03:36:57 PM »
UPDATE: It is going into the weekend and despite 20 (not an exaggeration) angry phone calls they finally decided to "escalate" my call. I definitely will not hear back from them til Monday. One full week after they received my money. This is absurd. I understand Helen is a "legend" but why is no one available to cover for her while she's gone? Is my 27K not important to them? Why will no one give me a confirmation receipt that the money was sent back? No one in the company has been able to get a response from the account team to confirm what has happened to my money. This may be an isolated incident but it is so severely mishandled at this point that I would start asking myself if this company deserves my business. It has been days and tons of angry phone calls and I have yet to receive an email from accounting or customer service. The only recourse I have no is to continue to complain on this forum. It is the only way that I have gotten anywhere with this company.

10
Reviews / Re: Horrible experience with Adorama camera
« on: June 07, 2013, 02:00:07 PM »
So a week after the money transfer the money is still not back in my account. This is surreal. The negligence shown by Adorama Camera is now pretty staggering. I have wasted hours of my life on this. I keep on speaking to Customer Service who is incapable of contacting the account team to find out where my money is. I am about to call my bank and place a trace on the funds. I cannot believe this. Adorama is beyond negligent.
You definitely should call your bank, Adorama is not a bank, and does not have any visibility into the banking system. 
 
You should e-mail Helen with the details, and she will help, that's something she is able to do.

Exactly. The money is not at Adorama, it's somewhere in the banking system.

When I moved to this country, I had several bad experiences (and money loss) because I didn't know the system. At the time I blamed BoA for the losses, and switched my accounts to different bank. They did handle the matters quite poorly, but the real reason for my troubles were that I didn't know how the system works. But they didn't do anything to help either, so I'm never going back BoA. A small local bank seems to care about me, or at least they make me feel like that.

Helen is out of the office and their outsourced customer service does not return my phone calls. Customer service has called the account team multiple times and emailed them over and over with no avail. The sales team team seemed able to get through to the account team very promptly when it was determining whether the transfer had happened. Now they are incapable of assisting me to contact the account team. If it is out in "banking land" I want to know that is indeed the case. They owe me at least that. If it was refused it should be back in the account already and it is not.

11
Reviews / Re: Horrible experience with Adorama camera
« on: June 07, 2013, 01:05:41 PM »
So a week after the money transfer the money is still not back in my account. This is surreal. The negligence shown by Adorama Camera is now pretty staggering. I have wasted hours of my life on this. I keep on speaking to Customer Service who is incapable of contacting the account team to find out where my money is. I am about to call my bank and place a trace on the funds. I cannot believe this. Adorama is beyond negligent.

12
Reviews / Re: Horrible experience with Adorama camera
« on: June 04, 2013, 07:48:11 PM »
Not to devalue your frustration at all, but wire transfers are very finicky things. The slightest irregularity perceived on the receiving end by the receiving bank and the transfer is refused. The fault was probably not Adorama's, I doubt they have a wire house on site.  It was likely the sending bank didn't coordinate properly with the receiving bank, or they would have known that an address was required.

I hope you get your gear soon. Tell us, what did you get? That is the fun stuff!

+1
Wire transfers really can be a pain.
I've never had a problem with Adorama...or B&H for that matter

I decided to take my business elsewhere (B&H). The biggest frustration truthfully was nasty phone calls Friday morning from the sales representative Israel. I told him I would wire on Friday and I get calls which I could not answer at the time saying that the order shouldn't be in if I'm not going to pay for it. Who does that? Then I leave him a message and say the transfer will be completed on Monday and I get the same obnoxious phone calls Monday and he's demanding to see a receipt not just the transfer papers. Then I call up that evening when the money was transferred and I was referred to a foreign call center (not sure where) who can't get in contact with their accounting. I had to call several people who promised return phone calls that never came until I got annoyed and demanded to speak with someone who could tell me where the money was and what had happened. The failure of the transfer was just the icing on the cake. I am fairly ignorant to financial matters but I really don't see how they can refuse a transfer without any attempt to verify information and then refuse to take any responsibility for their actions. I'm getting a 600mm f4, 70-200 f2.8 IS, 1DX and a sizeable amount of less notable purchases.

13
Reviews / Re: Horrible experience with Adorama camera
« on: June 04, 2013, 02:28:08 PM »
My bank is very cautious about fraud and they explained to me that they would have to raise my transaction limit and it would take some time. My bank has sent me new cards simply because I have made many online purchases in the past which surprised me. Israel suggested the wire transfer as an alternative. I understand the paranoia on the bank and Adorama's part about online fraud. The point is the way that Adorama is going about it is irresponsible and unfair to consumers so make your choice wisely.

14
Reviews / Horrible experience with Adorama camera
« on: June 04, 2013, 02:03:56 PM »
I placed a very large order with Adorama on Wednesday the 29th of May. I had never made a purchase that large and was informed by my bank that I would not be able to transfer the funds until Friday.  I received several calls and emails from a sales associate named Israel pressuring me in a rude way to verify information.  He called twice on Friday morning and I was unable to answer the phone during the morning. I transferred the money to their account at 2:30 on Friday and immediately returned Israel's phone call. He had left for the weekend. My bank had told me that the money would be in their account no later than Monday. I spoke to Israel and sent him verification of the money order. I spoke to my bank and they told me it would be available no later than 5 PM. I called Adorama at 6:15 Monday and was transferred to a call center who told me that I would be receiving verification of the transfer. They never returned my call. I called several times today Tuesday and sent emails to verify receipt of the money. No one was able to get in touch with the account team until I started getting angry and wanting to talk to managers. They then told me that they had refused the wire transfer because there was no address associated with my account. Instead of taking the time to work things out they simply refused it out of pure laziness. I understand fraud is a big problem but it does not mean that everyone should be treated like a criminal. I then asked them to return the $25 fee for wire transfers. They told me that the bank assessed it and therefore they are not responsible for it.

I have wasted hours on the phone, $25, was treated very rudely and I have delayed receiving my equipment for about a week depending on how fast they return the money and the bank can verify the reverse. I am very dissatisfied as a consumer and I encourage everyone not to choose Adorama especially for larger orders. I'm going with B and H, the only reason I didn't initially is because they were showing backordered at the factory on the 600mm F4 and I had no idea how long it would take to come back in stock (it was back in stock the following day, man am I kicking myself for that decision). I will write back with further updates.

15
Software & Accessories / Re: RAW Processing and what the hell is a DNG
« on: January 24, 2013, 05:12:11 PM »
I shoot with 7d and 60d generally always in RAW.

My process generally follows:

Load RAWs into lightroom
Process with standard exposure/colour adjustments
save in lightroom and export as JPEG for web publish.

Sometimes when I need to edit further I:

Open into PS for any masking/layering.
Save as TIFF to preserve the layers.
reimport backinto lightroom and export as JPEG.

I've seen people converting to DNG rather than process the raw files but I don't know why?

also when I import RAWs into lightroom, the pictures start off punchy and vibrant (like the JPEG preview on camera), and then when it renders they go all soft, mushy, lack contrast and the colours (particularly reds) become quite weak. Am I doing something wrong? I've never really touched "camera calibration" in lightroom, should I be exploting some features in there?

Thanks for your time

1. I like DNGs a bit more because I would lose all my sidecars because the files are being moved and backed up all the time. DNG's are a really convenient package and allow me to reverse any changes easily and although I doubt the .CR2 files will ever become obsolete and impossible to find a converter, I never have to bother with a converter if I need to look at old pics 15 years from now... simple.

2. If you are processing the pics as they are coming into lightroom that can drop contrast and vibrance if auto-tone is selected for example. I think this is what is happening to you because canon naturally oversaturates reds because it yields nicer fleshtones although it sucks because I've blown the red channels on a bunch of red flower pics in direct sunlight (Nikon seems to oversaturate greens). The lightroom conversion will naturally correct the canon image because although it may be prettier with overdone reds its not really accurate.

3. Although your camera is taking pure sensor data to make your RAW file your camera is most likely set with a certain picture style that will affect the display on the back of the camera. Hence I always set my picture style to neutral so I know right then if one of my high ISO pics is not looking the way I want it to. If you like what you see on the camera, you can process with DPP and it will use the jpg processing settings from the camera to render your images and it should look identical to what you see on the back of your camera unless you:

4. Have an uncalibrated monitor that does not display colors properly. Most monitors are pretty crappy at accurately portraying colors and yours may not display red, contrast, gamma or any number of other image characteristics properly. In this case you can try color correcting with websites which will get you maybe a bit better or suck it up and buy a colormunki.

5. You may have incompatible color spaces on the camera, LR settings and/or the monitor. I'd check all three and make sure its consistent. Given your workflow I'd probably just shoot in sRGB, have lightroom display in sRGB because its really not going to make a difference most of the time. Using AdobeRGB gives you a tiny bit better color accuracy but a huge headache if you are not 100% confident at what you are doing. Color space issues usually show up in the jpeg export process and yield mushy pics when posted on the web but I have no idea what buttons you may or may not have pressed on the back of your camera, in lightroom and what type of monitor you have (although 99% of monitors display in the sRGB color space).

My guess you have problems 3+4 and possibly 2 and its combining to create mush images. Who knows what the people on the web are seeing though because their monitors will most likely be equally out of whack.

 

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