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Messages - East Wind Photography

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1
EOS Bodies / Re: Official: Canon EOS 7D Mark II
« on: September 22, 2014, 09:13:24 PM »
lamenting Canon's supposed lack of DR and extolling the virtues of Exmor

See there you go again. Here you try to bring up doubt that Canon is behind in DR or that even if they are that it could ever mean anything. And yet when you finally get called out and backed into a corner as in your post later on, you are like "who me? fanboy? nobody here ever tries to admit that Exmor doesn't have more DR"

So which is it??? You try to have it both ways for everything.

There is a difference between 'Exmor has more DR than Canon' and 'Canon doesn't deliver enough DR'.  There's a difference between 'Exmor allows better low ISO shadow pushing than Canon' and 'Canon sensors deliver poor IQ'. In each case, the former is a statement of fact that is generally accepted here, the latter is a judgement based on an individual's personal needs and values.  Some people just can't understand or accept that their own needs and values aren't statements of fact with which everyone must agree. 

That's not 'having it both ways', that's the ability to distinguish between fact and opinion.

suuuure

and don't forget your buddy Keith today was posting all over here today in other threads about how the extra DR is a joke and is only needed by incompetent photographers who always miss the exposure and who have no post-processing skills and that the only point and use for more DR is to overcome poor photography skills of incompetent users.

Aye. I don't much appreciate Keith's assumptions that all problems are the result of idiot photographers who don't know how to take a photo or process one in post, or that no one has ever tried Capture One or more advanced NR tools and techniques.

One thing we can assume is that our chances are better at taking a once in a lifetime photograph if we weren't here reading and posting on these forums.  ;)

Indeed. They are also better when it isn't rainy and stormy outside. :P Which, as it so happens, has been the case for several days here in Colorado now. When it's clear, I'm out doing photography, one way or another. It's just been a crazy year for weather, and a poor year for birds. Wildlife has still panned out pretty well, though.

Sounds like you are ready for a high iso, weather sealed, high frame rate camera so you can go out in that weather and take photos!  :)  I would be more inclined to take a 1700.00 camera out in it than a 6000.00 one.

2
EOS Bodies / Re: Official: Canon EOS 7D Mark II
« on: September 22, 2014, 04:58:03 PM »
lamenting Canon's supposed lack of DR and extolling the virtues of Exmor

See there you go again. Here you try to bring up doubt that Canon is behind in DR or that even if they are that it could ever mean anything. And yet when you finally get called out and backed into a corner as in your post later on, you are like "who me? fanboy? nobody here ever tries to admit that Exmor doesn't have more DR"

So which is it??? You try to have it both ways for everything.

There is a difference between 'Exmor has more DR than Canon' and 'Canon doesn't deliver enough DR'.  There's a difference between 'Exmor allows better low ISO shadow pushing than Canon' and 'Canon sensors deliver poor IQ'. In each case, the former is a statement of fact that is generally accepted here, the latter is a judgement based on an individual's personal needs and values.  Some people just can't understand or accept that their own needs and values aren't statements of fact with which everyone must agree. 

That's not 'having it both ways', that's the ability to distinguish between fact and opinion.

suuuure

and don't forget your buddy Keith today was posting all over here today in other threads about how the extra DR is a joke and is only needed by incompetent photographers who always miss the exposure and who have no post-processing skills and that the only point and use for more DR is to overcome poor photography skills of incompetent users.

Aye. I don't much appreciate Keith's assumptions that all problems are the result of idiot photographers who don't know how to take a photo or process one in post, or that no one has ever tried Capture One or more advanced NR tools and techniques.

One thing we can assume is that our chances are better at taking a once in a lifetime photograph if we weren't here reading and posting on these forums.  ;)

3
EOS Bodies / Re: Am I the only one excited about the new 7D mk2?
« on: September 22, 2014, 04:53:38 PM »
They are all cross type, however Canon throttles AF speed at f/5.6 relative to f/4 or f/2.8. Even on the 61pt system, even when using only the center points, AF speed slows when I slap on a 1.4x TC onto my 600/4, vs. just using the 600/4. Additionally, at f/5.6, the chances of "hunting" increase. Canon's AF system caters towards looking for a closer subject first when the scene is out of focus by more than a certain (unspecified) amount. So, if I need to photograph a bird in flight, it's FAR better to use an f/4 lens, which is likely to lock on directly immediately, than f/5.6, which is going to hunt forward first if I'm not already close to focus on the bird.

Maybe the 65pt system changes that, but it looks like the same general firmware as the 5D III and 1D X, so I suspect it'll behave the same.

No, Canon does not throttle AF speed at f/5.6 relative to f/4 or f/2.8.  Yes, when you put the 1.4x TC behind your 600/4, AF slows down.  But that's not because the combo is f/5.6, it's because of the TC.  By design (firmware), a 1.4x TC drops AF speed by 50%, and a 2x TC drops it by 75%.  If you put the 1.4x behind the 200mm f/2, you'll have a 280mm f/2.8 lens that activates all 61 AF points including the 5 dual-cross points on the 5DIII/1D X...and still focuses 50% slower. 

The 'hunting' you describe also appears to not be specific to the max aperture or the AF points, but rather to lens or TC combo.  For example, the 100-400L @ 400/5.6 hunts with a busy background, whereas the 400/5.6L locks on much more effectively in that scenario.

Hmm, curious. When I rent the 300 f/2.8 II, and use the 1.4x TC, it still seems to focus extremely fast. Faster than the 600/4 with the same TC.

Maybe it's just the design of the 100-400, but that lens doesn't focus fast, period, as far as I can tell. I haven't used the 400/5.6 with the 61pt system, so I can't speak to it.

The 300/2.8 II is arguably Canon's fastest-focusing lens.  The focusing group in the 600/4 II is ~25% more massive than that in the 300/2.8 II.  The bare 300 II focuses faster than the bare 600 II, so the former will be faster with the same TC.  I suspect the 300/2.8 II is just so fast to begin with that you don't notice the AF speed reduction as much.

Here's the relevant bit from Canon:

Quote from: Canon DLC
As with previous EF Extenders, usage of Series III EF Extenders lowers AF drive speed to improve AF performance. When Extender EF 1.4X III is used, AF drive speed is reduced by 50%. When Extender EF 2X III is used, AF drive speed is reduced by 75%. This may seem like a drawback, but in reality subject tracking performance remains quite high when Series III Extenders are used with IS II lenses. This is due to improvements in AF precision made possible by the new microcomputer in the extenders.

The 100-400L focuses noticeably slower than the 400/5.6, as well, even though both are 400mm f/5.6.

400 f5.6 also has better contrast lines wide open than the 100-400 wide open.  Part of the noisy background hunting issue is due to the coma which blurs the lines between black and white.  How a lens looks wide open is a great indicator of how well and how quickly it will get a lock.  Now there is a real reason to pixel peep prior to purchasing a lens.

4
EOS Bodies / Re: Am I the only one excited about the new 7D mk2?
« on: September 22, 2014, 04:40:45 PM »
They are all cross type, however Canon throttles AF speed at f/5.6 relative to f/4 or f/2.8. Even on the 61pt system, even when using only the center points, AF speed slows when I slap on a 1.4x TC onto my 600/4, vs. just using the 600/4. Additionally, at f/5.6, the chances of "hunting" increase. Canon's AF system caters towards looking for a closer subject first when the scene is out of focus by more than a certain (unspecified) amount. So, if I need to photograph a bird in flight, it's FAR better to use an f/4 lens, which is likely to lock on directly immediately, than f/5.6, which is going to hunt forward first if I'm not already close to focus on the bird.

Maybe the 65pt system changes that, but it looks like the same general firmware as the 5D III and 1D X, so I suspect it'll behave the same.

No, Canon does not throttle AF speed at f/5.6 relative to f/4 or f/2.8.  Yes, when you put the 1.4x TC behind your 600/4, AF slows down.  But that's not because the combo is f/5.6, it's because of the TC.  By design (firmware), a 1.4x TC drops AF speed by 50%, and a 2x TC drops it by 75%.  If you put the 1.4x behind the 200mm f/2, you'll have a 280mm f/2.8 lens that activates all 61 AF points including the 5 dual-cross points on the 5DIII/1D X...and still focuses 50% slower. 

The 'hunting' you describe also appears to not be specific to the max aperture or the AF points, but rather to lens or TC combo.  For example, the 100-400L @ 400/5.6 hunts with a busy background, whereas the 400/5.6L locks on much more effectively in that scenario.

Hmm, curious. When I rent the 300 f/2.8 II, and use the 1.4x TC, it still seems to focus extremely fast. Faster than the 600/4 with the same TC.

Maybe it's just the design of the 100-400, but that lens doesn't focus fast, period, as far as I can tell. I haven't used the 400/5.6 with the 61pt system, so I can't speak to it.

The 300/2.8 II is arguably Canon's fastest-focusing lens.  The focusing group in the 600/4 II is ~25% more massive than that in the 300/2.8 II.  The bare 300 II focuses faster than the bare 600 II, so the former will be faster with the same TC.  I suspect the 300/2.8 II is just so fast to begin with that you don't notice the AF speed reduction as much.

Here's the relevant bit from Canon:

Quote from: Canon DLC
As with previous EF Extenders, usage of Series III EF Extenders lowers AF drive speed to improve AF performance. When Extender EF 1.4X III is used, AF drive speed is reduced by 50%. When Extender EF 2X III is used, AF drive speed is reduced by 75%. This may seem like a drawback, but in reality subject tracking performance remains quite high when Series III Extenders are used with IS II lenses. This is due to improvements in AF precision made possible by the new microcomputer in the extenders.

The 100-400L focuses noticeably slower than the 400/5.6, as well, even though both are 400mm f/5.6.

Actually the 70-200 IS II focuses faster than the 300 IS II. And I can not notice any focusing slowdown on the 300 IS II even with 2x converter. The 70-200 however is slooooow with the 2x. This is my experience with both 5DIII and 1DX, the 1DX is slightly faster with both lenses.

So apparently (wether its true or not) the af speed is supposed to be the same with or without the converters.  Af has to move less distance with the converters attached so time to reach focus is about the same.  Now getting a lock at f5.6 or f8 is another story

5
EOS Bodies / Re: Official: Canon EOS 7D Mark II
« on: September 21, 2014, 10:45:33 AM »
I kind of agree with you.  If people are ready to jump ship to someone other than Canon due to read noise they are blindly ignoring the other aspects of Canon cameras that makes them far better than the competition.

I for one wont invest in Nikon due to their consistent unreliability.  They are fine for consumers who use them for fun but when your livelihood and reputation are on the line you want equipment that will not break down in the harshest of conditions.

If the shots you are taking as so specialized that read noise is deal breaker then maybe you should be looking at some other technology that involves chip cooling and other technologies specifically designed for low light, high gain, photography.

No one likes noise in their images but don't ignore the other aspects that make Canon a better choice.

Those that speak for others on this forum are completely out of line.  Some of the images that are posted are better than top of the class and to say they are "impatient" with Canons noise progress is pretty ridiculous and invalidates most of their points and consideration here.




Wouldn't this whole sensor read noise debate not be better served over at http://forums.usa.canon.com
They do actually have Canon people participating in those forums, ineffective? Certainly no less so than here!

6
So here's a question, how can one determine if an affected model has already had the new firmware installed?  This would be more relevant for those that have picked up the MKII used.

7
Reviews / Re: Canon EOS 7D MK II Field Review of THE APS-C DSLR KING .
« on: September 15, 2014, 10:15:06 PM »
Yeah he doesn't even mention the EXIF info so this is more of a "how it feels/democratic" view.  I could have provided a much better review shooting high school football at night with stadium lighting.

8
EOS Bodies / Re: Time wasted... re: 7D Mark II
« on: September 15, 2014, 12:46:16 PM »
I consider this forum noise.  For 1800.00 and a better sensor than the old 7D, it was worth waiting for.  The only reason I perused these forums was to find out when the pre-orders were starting.


9
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 7DII - Did you preorder?
« on: September 15, 2014, 12:41:53 PM »
It is a respectable upgrade considering the price point.  Puts my old 7D to shame.  Preorder placed as soon as it was posted to the site.

10
EOS Bodies / Re: More Images of the Canon EOS 7D Mark II
« on: September 14, 2014, 08:37:35 AM »
Thanks for the info. Right now, the 7D2 is the only camera on my radar with a CF slot. If I remember correctly the 6D uses SD cards as do my other options.

Every once and a while SanDisk, et al, have crazy deals on cards, so I wouldn't consider the fact that you already have SD cards as a factor for whether you get a 7D2 versus something else... (Not that you said you were...)

Rumored spec says both CF and SD.  Just like the 5D3.

11
EOS Bodies / Re: More Images of the Canon EOS 7D Mark II
« on: September 14, 2014, 08:34:16 AM »
Wow Canon really outdid themselves this time. the industrial design and style are awesome a huge departure from previous generations.. I sure am glad they are not remaining stagnant

 ::)

It looks like we have a victim of the "I've been waiting 5 years, therefore it should look like a camera embodying a magical dragon that farts unicorns". I won't deny, I thought the same kind of thing when I first saw it, but then I remembered, leave what works, upgrade the FPS, sensor tech, AF and possibly video features. That's all the 7d II was ever going to be.
Hi,
    That's what camera upgrade is all about... What do you expect?? Make coffee??

    Hmm... just wonder what the usage for "Can sync time between 7D II cameras"?? For synchronize shooting??  ??? Anyway, since 7D2 got GPS, you can turn on the GPS and both camera will auto sync to the GPS, so why need this feature... hmm... unless your camera are always indoor...

    Have a nice day.

There are a couple of uses for synchronized time source.  Allows multiple photographers to work an area and then all of the shots can be sorted in shot order.  Very usefully during a sports event.

The other use would be video time sync.  The spec rumor didn't mention what kind of time is being synched.  However in doing so for video, it allows for seamless frame transitions when editing or switching video particularly during live editing.  This is probably a spec that is better suited for a cinema camera.  However I wouldnt put it past them to add this now so us schmos can test the tech behind it.
 
Or as neuro stated early just a teaser to get everyone to buy a wireless transmitter for each camera.

12
EOS Bodies / Re: More Images of the Canon EOS 7D Mark II
« on: September 13, 2014, 10:01:57 PM »
when is this likely for sale ?

Rumor mill says it will be announced officially on Monday.  Deliveries will be end of Oct beginning of Nov.  These are all rumors but generally most likely.

13
EOS Bodies / Re: More Images of the Canon EOS 7D Mark II
« on: September 13, 2014, 09:04:38 PM »
Just small incremental upgrades.  Not much to show for all the years of development if you ask me.  I'll skip the mark II, thank you.

Since I skipped the 30D, 40D, 50D, 60D and 7D, this looks like a huge upgrade to me over the 20D I shot with (very successfully) all day today.

I'm shooting with a 60D and it looks like a huge upgrade :)

My biggest question is, should I get a 70D or a 7DII?  Some advantages for each.  I'll wait for the announcement and first tests on the sensor of the 7DII before I make a decision.

Interestingly, I was considering between 70D & 6D versus 7DII & 5DIII.  I like my 20D and 5D because they basically have the same user interface.  But, for what I use it for, the 6D would actually probably be better than the 5DIII (WiFi would help at times, GPS would certainly help to keep the clock accurate, the low-light focusing point is probably more useful for me than the 5DIII's advanced super-fast focusing).  So my wife basically told me to suck it up and get the 7DII and 6D, and just learn to handle the UI differences.  Still thinking about that, but she probably has a point.


I was thinking of the same. I sold my 6D and purchased a 5D MK III and absolutely love it.  I want a second camera, I rented a 70D a few weeks ago and truly enjoyed using it during my grandson's soccer game. I like shooting wide open using a 70-200mm f/2.8 the 70D worked well and I was happy at first, but I took a quick shot with the 70D removed the lens and put it on my 5D MK III took the same shot. When I go home, I compared the two shots and of course I had to crop the 5D MK III. The 5D MK III had so much more detail and much sharper than the 70D.  I really liked the video touch screen and auto focus on the 70D, but wonder how often would I really use video. This past Thursday my grandson had another U6 soccer game, and used my 5D MK III since I returned the 70D and glad I did., because it rained as they continued to play I was able to continue to shooting.  So the 70D isn't an option any longer with only 1 fps better than the 5D MK III. I had big hopes for the 7D MK II mainly for the extra reach, fps and weather proof and it still may not be out of contention for a second camera. Here is a shot with the 5D MK III on Thursdays game.  Suggestions are appreciated.

Great shot in the worst of conditions.  With the 5d3 just run up the iso.  Ive been using zone af on the 5d3 for soccer games.  It will always af on the closest thing in the box whereas the others maybe not so much.  I also wouldnt think of taking a 70d into a rain shower but have done so with the 5d3 many times.  I always just throw a dish towel on top just in case.  Looking forward to maybe ditching the dish towel once the 7d2 arrives.

14
EOS Bodies / Re: More Images of the Canon EOS 7D Mark II
« on: September 13, 2014, 08:36:56 PM »
Just small incremental upgrades.  Not much to show for all the years of development if you ask me.  I'll skip the mark II, thank you.

Since I skipped the 30D, 40D, 50D, 60D and 7D, this looks like a huge upgrade to me over the 20D I shot with (very successfully) all day today.

I'm shooting with a 60D and it looks like a huge upgrade :)

My biggest question is, should I get a 70D or a 7DII?  Some advantages for each.  I'll wait for the announcement and first tests on the sensor of the 7DII before I make a decision.

Interestingly, I was considering between 70D & 6D versus 7DII & 5DIII.  I like my 20D and 5D because they basically have the same user interface.  But, for what I use it for, the 6D would actually probably be better than the 5DIII (WiFi would help at times, GPS would certainly help to keep the clock accurate, the low-light focusing point is probably more useful for me than the 5DIII's advanced super-fast focusing).  So my wife basically told me to suck it up and get the 7DII and 6D, and just learn to handle the UI differences.  Still thinking about that, but she probably has a point.
At the moment, we don't have a clue if Canon has addressed the noise problem or not.... I give it 50/50 odds. Rumours say a new sensor, yet at the same size as the 70D. It is possible that the 70D sensor was the first "kick at the cat" for an APS-C sensor with finer lithography and that the 7D2 builds on that sensor and adds in cleaner A/D... It would certainly make sense, but it is just a guess... We should find out in a week or so.

To me its impossible to compare the 7d2 to a 70d.  They wont have the same af system...in fact the wont have much in common to compare except for maybe the sensor.  The 7d2 is an upgrade to the 7d and its sensor will be better than the 7d. 

The 70d to the 7d2 is like comparing the 60d to the 7d.  Similar sensor but the system cannot be compared.  They have different feature sets and different capabilities.  One is consumer grade one is semi-pro grade.

I am just waiting for the preorders to start for the 7d2.  The 70d is not even a consideration for me and never has.


15
EOS Bodies / Re: More Images of the Canon EOS 7D Mark II
« on: September 13, 2014, 05:37:54 PM »
no WiFi, no NFC, no RT-wireless flash commander built in. Seriously crippled in the communications department, ouch. But GPS which sucks much more battery power and is not needed as often by most users.

Why oh why?  ::)

AF looks promising, everything else is ... ok, but nothing more than minimum to be expected.

you know this no wifi thing has got me pondering a bit.  If the rumor is true that multiple 7DII can sync time with each other, it would seem that they have to have some kind of wifi going there to make that happen.  One could assume that a GPS enabled camera could get it's time from the GPS sats and all should be within 50 ms of each other.  However it was specifically mentioned that the cameras can sync time together.  That to me means some kind of wireless communication is going on.  Wifi would be the easiest way to do that with current tech.


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