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Messages - pedro

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31
Have the cameras not increased in pixels over the years? An increase in resolution is inevitable. Why do we fear that?

Does higher resolution not translate into better IQ? Why the resistance??

Unless you go to a larger sensor, higher resolution means smaller pixels.  Based on many things I have read, smaller pixels often means a decrease in image quality at the pixel level.  The compensation is that you have more pixels to try and compensate for that.  I am not a pro, so keep that in mind, but I was an original Canon Digital Rebel owner (6 MP).  At least twice over the years I felt that the newer Canon Rebels with more MP must be better, so I purchased and returned the 14 MP model, and then a few years later I rented and wasn't particularly impressed with the 18 MP model.  At the level of detail I got on my monitor (where I normally view my pics) or printing up to 8 x 10 prints, the 6 MP camera was just fine.  I did not do any in depth analysis, but more megapixels didn't improve things enough (or at all) in terms of IQ for me to replace my 6 MP 300D.  Only recently did my 300D finally begin to have problems, so I replaced it with the 6D.  Because of the larger sensor, the pixel size is almost the same as it was with my 300D - and the image quality is considerably better.  So, at least based on my amateur experience, jamming more pixels into the same size sensor doesn't so as much in terms of improving IQ as would would expect.   

Good point, dak723. I am with you concerning the MP count. I just hope Canon don't increase it neither on a new 5D nor on the 6D. All I need is a great allround cam as the 5D3 is for me. Coming from the 30D it is all I ever need as an amateur. If Canon manages to improve IQ in the higher ISOs as well (25k, 51k) and keep the MPs at about the same amount as today, I might be a happy 5DV buyer about 6 to 7 years from now.

32
EOS Bodies / Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« on: December 02, 2013, 08:22:02 AM »
Latest informationen from Canon Japan:

The new EOS 1 body will have two CF card slots (none of them are CFast slots).

Don´t expect a big megapixel camera or a medium format camera in 2014. But expect more than 18 megapixels, dual pixel tech., a bigger camera display and better IQ.

Canon Japan drop hints on future EOS 1 body? Seriously?

The CR Oracle (albeit with a rather low success rate) has spoken  ::) ... now it is for Canon to deliver.  :P

BTW, Correct me if I'm wrong ... doesn't the current EOS-1DX have two CF card slots? so what is this "new" stuff are you talking about?

M.S.T. seems to have a german or a german swiss background or maybe it's the netherlands or skandinavia, based on the quote: latest informationen... :)

33
Canon General / Re: TEN YEARS FROM NOW.
« on: December 02, 2013, 06:01:00 AM »
As I am not much into tech: I've heard taht pixel binning adds to noise reduction. So, is it theoretically possible to cram 80 MP on a waver and get a 20 MP pixel binning sensor? But I guess, that with these tiny pixels cannont collect enough photons either, so an endavour like that will turn obsolete as well. My 0.5 cents of knowledge.

34
EOS Bodies / Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« on: November 30, 2013, 07:41:47 AM »
We all have our individual wants and needs, but Canon (and all other big camera manufactures) are not into the tailor made trade. They listen to majorities. Remember which improvements the majority of 5DII users wanted? More megapixels and better low ISO performance weren’t high on that list. Better autofocus and higher fps were and that’s what we got. And even at + $500  compared to the high mp high dynamic range Nikon D800 they sell and probably outsell them.
Sales numbers, market share and profit, that’s what drives a company like Canon and there are no real indications that their current product range is hurting them in those areas so to them this is confirmation they made the right choices.

A new 5D next year? Don’t think so.
5D => 5DII 3 years;
5DII => 5DIII 3.5 years;
5DIII => 5DIV… 3 to 4 years probably.
So it will be well into 2015 and probably 2016 before we get a new 5D.

Agreed. I suspect we'll have a 5D IV announced late 2014, and delivered summer timeframe in 2015. Seems way too early to be getting the 5D III replacement.

I like Canon to take their time. As it has a positive effect on their next product tech wise. I won't be in the game for a 5DIV. The 5D3 still remains more camera than I ever can handle properly  8) So as improved high ISOs beyond 25k are my main interest, I will be glad to see the 5DIV's specs which will kinda forecast what the 5DV will be based on. 1/2 a stop to a full stop better high ISO by 2018 would be a tremendous leap for the 5DV. Till then I am well equipped. Still working on my first 10k frames with the 5D3.

Just out of curiosity, when you say half a stop to a stop better high ISO...what do you mean by that? I'm sure Canon could simply add a native ISO 51200 or even native ISO 102400, without really changing anything.

That said, physically, I think it is impossible for any camera to have a true two stops better performance than the current 5D III...not without significantly increasing pixel size, or increasing pixel size to some degree and maximizing Q.E. to nearly 100%. To achieve a literal reduction in noise by an actual full stop, one would need to either double the Q.E. (which would put it at 98%...so far, achieving Q.E. above 90% requires some significant and powerful cooling to keep the sensors at -80°C), or double the pixel area (which would require sensors with twice the pixel pitch, or four times the area...so pixels would jump from 6.25µm to 12.5µm...a megapixel count of about 5.5mp). Neither of these seem likely...the cooling isn't possible in a battery powered mobile package for Q.E. of over 90%, and the reduction in megapixel count to a mere 5.5mp would deter the majority of potential buyers (although I'm sure there are some low light fanatics who would absolutely LOVE to have a legitimate, low noise ISO 25600 and usable ISO 51200.)

Anyway...just curious what people mean, or think, when they ask for "two stops better high ISO performance". Are they just asking for two more stops of high ISO settings...or are they asking for two stops better noise performance at those higher ISO settings. The former is possible, the latter...probably not so much...not for a while for one stop better performance (we'll need either a radical breakthrough in circuit design and/or wafer materials...or incredibly efficient supercooling that fits into the area of a couple inches square), and two stops is probably impossible due to the physical nature of light and how it's handled by a sensor.

Well, thank you jrista for your tech background. Then, my little dream is over. I meant better IQ. Lacking your technical background,  I couldn't recognize the physical realities. Then I just hope they don't increase the MP count as long as they remain with their type of sensortech. But I also understand, that Canon can't decrease it without getting into 1Dx territory. Anyway my 5DIII will remain a great allround camera for quite a while. I will surely welcome your assessment once another 5D hits the shelves. Regards, Peter

35
EOS Bodies / Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« on: November 30, 2013, 01:49:09 AM »
We all have our individual wants and needs, but Canon (and all other big camera manufactures) are not into the tailor made trade. They listen to majorities. Remember which improvements the majority of 5DII users wanted? More megapixels and better low ISO performance weren’t high on that list. Better autofocus and higher fps were and that’s what we got. And even at + $500  compared to the high mp high dynamic range Nikon D800 they sell and probably outsell them.
Sales numbers, market share and profit, that’s what drives a company like Canon and there are no real indications that their current product range is hurting them in those areas so to them this is confirmation they made the right choices.

A new 5D next year? Don’t think so.
5D => 5DII 3 years;
5DII => 5DIII 3.5 years;
5DIII => 5DIV… 3 to 4 years probably.
So it will be well into 2015 and probably 2016 before we get a new 5D.

Agreed. I suspect we'll have a 5D IV announced late 2014, and delivered summer timeframe in 2015. Seems way too early to be getting the 5D III replacement.

I like Canon to take their time. As it has a positive effect on their next product tech wise. I won't be in the game for a 5DIV. The 5D3 still remains more camera than I ever can handle properly  8) So as improved high ISOs beyond 25k are my main interest, I will be glad to see the 5DIV's specs which will kinda forecast what the 5DV will be based on. 1/2 a stop to a full stop better high ISO by 2018 would be a tremendous leap for the 5DV. Till then I am well equipped. Still working on my first 10k frames with the 5D3.

36
EOS Bodies / Re: "Two New FF Bodies in 2014" - if 5DM4, would you jump in?
« on: November 30, 2013, 01:39:27 AM »
My 5D3 purchased in August 2012 is the best type of digital photography gear I ever had (coming from a sony cybershot DSC-P30, F828 and a Canon 30D). To MF stars via 10x LV in a dark night is amazing, no moonlight required...I will go on with it for at least the next 5 years. My simple lens line up in my signature is all I ever need. So with a rather small photography budget I keep saving up for a 5DV. The only thing I'd expect by then: 1/2 or a full stop better high ISO beyond 25k and 24 MP max. As it never ceases to amaze you'll find me sneaking around about once a night per week...

37
EOS Bodies / Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« on: November 28, 2013, 08:38:13 AM »
Well, it will be intresting how the 5DIV turns out spec wise. My 5D3 does very well so far. But I would be glad to see some nice improvement in high ISO IQ beyond 25k. Then I would gladly look forward to an eventually much more improved 5DV in about 5 years from now.

OR: if the 5DIV moves further up the specs ladder, could this mean:
1DXs US$ 8.5k
1 Dx US$ 7 k
5DIV (at the price of  1DIV) US $ 4.5k
6DII (revamped, new 5D3ish cam?) US $3.5k
xD Full frame Rebel? US$ 1.9k

Time will tell

38
EOS Bodies / Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« on: November 25, 2013, 02:49:39 PM »
What are the possible effects on better high ISO IQ with this tech? Let's say: in the 25k - 51k range?

39
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Teaser Appears in Korea
« on: November 09, 2013, 04:36:51 PM »
Against all "hope": A DF-ish FF, 1Dx sensor, 5D3 AF, no video, native ISO 51200, extension H1 and H2. A stills only body for Christmas... 8) Just to keep up with the Joneses. US $ 2.8k (as Canon will ask a bit more)

40
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« on: November 05, 2013, 10:22:09 AM »


So my revised wish would be to have a 6D or 60D crammed into the old retro AE-1 Program body and priced around the same price or less of a 6D or 60D if it were APS-C.  That would be fun.  That's all.  Fun.  For those with disposable income that want a nostalgic fun camera.  Don't beat me up about whether adding video costs more or not, recovering R&D budgets, market segments, etc.

It would just be fun to see and I might even buy one if it used my current lenses and flash.

RustTheGeek: you hit the nail. That was my second thought after pushing post: But it's more expensive than the Canon 6D. So what...;-) Hope they'll come out with a low res AE-1ish retro product. I like these buttons and stuff. So, come on Canon bring it on, but don't cash in on us for the retrolook...Lol... 18MP, very usable ISO 102K. Might be too much of wishful thinking... 8)

41
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« on: November 05, 2013, 10:00:35 AM »
Outside the issue of ugliness, I liked the specifications. I'm serious. Use a good quality and low resolution sensor is the dream of some (few people) and costs less than D4. Honestly, if canon makes a retro camera (beautiful) with the same 1DX sensor, and sells cheaper, I'd love to.

Plus one. Nikon seems to read the fora ;-) I could imagine buying a retro Canon AE1 type designed DSLR, 18 MP ... but as a high ISO freak I would like the 1Dx's high ISO range in it... 8) Looking at Canon's current price tags they might still ask 3K, just for the retro look ;-)

42
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 2nd Body... 1D IV or another 5D III
« on: October 20, 2013, 06:23:08 AM »
Without reading I'd recommend another 5D3, because you are able to continue shooting without any adaptation to another body. And if reach is needed I'd go for the 1.4 converter. Cheaper solution, newer body. My two cents.

43
EOS Bodies / Re: What do you think will be the Shelf life of the EOS 6D ?
« on: October 18, 2013, 05:18:49 PM »
I would guess that the refresh cycle of most of Canon's non-rebel bodies will be determined more by when they release the new 0.18um process sensors rather than historical timelines. Presumably, the first will be released in the 7Dll. I can't imagine that a FF version would be too far behind. Since there have been rumors of some new EOS bodies being released in the near future, who knows which cameras will get the updated sensors first.

Disclaimer: Keep in mind that I have no idea of what I'm talking about...

+1

44
Why does anyone think these are 'back up' cameras?


From a Canonite's point of view I can imagine, that these bodies cover just a certain area: more MP, better DR and less weight, therefore the use of this term. But: one has to deal with two different systems as well.

I am looking forward to how these announcements will affect Canon's next moves. Hopefully they slow down the insane price tag increases of late. Anyway, the 5D3 is way enough camera for me as an amateur.

ISO 51200, this past Monday:

Z96A6810bdEFKleinBWMaster by Peter Hauri, on Flickr

45
Street & City / Re: 5D3 and ISO 51200: Firefighters rehearsing Emergency
« on: October 15, 2013, 06:57:46 AM »
Nice shot...  I think grain/noise actually adds to this shot! :) In low light, i often like noise in the shot (certainly a lot more than the 'plasticy' look of overused noise reduction). Often when the light is too low for 'normal' iso ranges, the noise of the image mimics the poor visibility our own eyes suffer in these situations, adding to the mood of the photograph. Use noise/grain, don't fight it! Anyway, i digress...  great shot. :)

Thank you for your feedback! +1 on that. When I saw Capa's (D-day) and Frank's photography (The Americans) I stopped worrying about grain/noise and motion blurr for good. Never will purchase a flash either, as my type of photography doesn't include the of one :D My special kick are exactly these insanely high ISOs. Did so back in the film days, even dared to push my old 30D to ISO 3200 every now and then. Regards, Pedro

Good shot!

I remember the time when using ISO anywhere over 3200 on my 7D used to give me the heebies jeebies. It's amazing that the 5D3 can churn out such great images at insanely high ISO's.

I am all insanely high ISOs. That was the main reason to buy a 5D3. And I just wonder, what a 5DV will be capable to do! I dare to dream of 16 to 12.8 kish ISO 51200 once it gets announced. Hmmm...I'd be ok with very clean ISO 25.6k as well.

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