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Messages - pedro

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Lenses / Re: New Tokina AF 16-28 F/2.8 AT-X Pro SD FX - Focus Pocus
« on: February 10, 2013, 05:34:27 AM »
Had the lens from almost a year. Used it very often in a great range of situations (lightning, composition etc.) on two bodies (1DsMk2 and 5DMk3), apertures ranging from 2.8 till... I don't know (16?... 22?) with the AF point almost everywhere, used with MF also in enough situations (last time 30 minutes ago in a big photo report) and I did not see what you're experiencing.

Yes, on 5D3 it needed AFMA. Also, at f/2.8 even if the center is very good the margins are a little bit soft, but this is quite normal for this class (in fact, I found Tokina's sharpness best for it's class). The corners start to catch up immediately from f/3.2 - 4 and become very good at f/5.6. From there on, I don't know anymore...  :)

Just my2c & HTH

Your experience refers quite a bit to the findings. After reading this it kept me from going for it. Even though 28 mm on the long end would come very close to my photography preferences in nightsky shooting. 28mm on the long end would yield at least 20 to 22 sec of exposure applying 600 rule (600:28 = exposure before startrails become evident).
Photozone reported, they got a few lemons while testing the copies and that made me hesitate a bit more.
Glad to hear that your experience is good so far. Here's the photozone link.
It is in english and I appreciate their review. Guess I'll go for the classic 16-35 range instead...As it offers the possibilty to mount an ND 10 filter for ultra long daytime exposures as well 8) Cheers, Pedro.

EOS Bodies / Re: Big Megapixel Camera in 2014
« on: February 09, 2013, 11:49:28 AM »
@jirista: Thank you so much for taking your time to elaborate your explanation for me. Now I got a faint idea of what it is all about. I highly appreciate that! Has  there leaked any info (patents) that Canon are changing to the CP-ADC approach sometime soon? or let's say within the 5DIIIs or 6Ds body cycle? Could the rumored 5DX contain at least some first components towards this system? Looking forward to read about CP-ADC approaches related to future canon sensor designs....Cheers, Pedro

Reviews / Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« on: February 09, 2013, 06:21:49 AM »
@Carl, Dustin: Don't want to hijack that thread either.
But no, I don't have the Tokina 16-28 f/2.8. The risk of getting a "lemon" according to photozone kept from buying. Therefore I'll go for a 16-35 classic WA. Although, it doesn't get the best verdict quality/pricewise by photozone.


The Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8 USM L II may not be the greatest lens around in absolute terms but it delivers regarding its primary purpose - a very good performance at its ultra-wide to wide settings (16-26mm) from about f/4 onwards. This isn't all that simple as we've seen during the test of the EF 17-40mm f/4 USM L. On the downside the lens is rather mediocre at 35mm although still perfectly fine at medium apertures. A major weakness is the amount of vignetting at f/2.8 especially at 16mm but to be fair this is a general problem in this lens class when using a full format DSLR. The Canon lens suffers also from a typical degree of barrel distortions at 16mm whereas it's only a minor problem from 20-35mm. Lateral CAs are very well controlled throughout the range. The bokeh (the quality of the out-of-focus blur) could be better but, again, few ultra-wides are really good here anyway. Flare wasn't a big issue during our field tests. The build quality of the lens is exceptional and the AF speed and accuracy is on a very high level. All-in-all a good offer although it will not knock your socks off.

BUT: you are able to mount a 10 ND filter to it and that is the icing on the cake for me. And yes, you'll get a 16-35 at a decent aperture, all in all as up to "five" lenses in one: 16, 20, 24, 28, 35. That's not bad, even at f/2.8  8) Online pice tag over here: US $ 1400.00

Whatever may happen to Canons body line up related to a rumored high MP 5DX, I could imagine to opt for a 6D II in case they screw the 5Ds towards 36+MP !

Reviews / Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« on: February 09, 2013, 03:42:46 AM »
CarlTN, Dustin: Here's a review of it at (german site in english)

To make it short, here are their conclusions:


The Tokina AF 16-28mm f/2.8 AT-X Pro SD FX is a high-performance ultra-wide zoom lens that gives the Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8 USM L II a run for the money - but it's not a lens without flaws. Its primary weakness is corner softness at f/2.8 but that's not unheard of in this class anyway. However, the center quality is great and the borders are generally sharp as well. The corners start to catch up at f/4 and they're very good from f/5.6 onward. Vignetting is, of course, visible at f/2.8, specifically at 16mm but the issue is better controlled than average. Lateral CAs, an old Tokina disease actually, are modest and not overly field-relevant when stopped down a little bit. Typical for such lens it shows some barrel distortions but they're, again, comparatively moderate even at the very wide end of the range. Technically the Tokina is superior to the current Canon EF zoom lenses in basically all the analysed image aspects!

Unfortunately there may be a hair spoiling the (optical) soup here - quality control. As mentioned we purchased three lens samples for testing, two in Nikon and one in Canon mount, and all three showed some centering issues. The initial Nikon variant was so poor that we had to cancel the testing procedure. We'd like to urge the manufacturers to take lens centering (alignment) more seriously - just a good or possibly even great base-design is simply not enough without proper manufacturing. We are pretty sure that consumers, especially in the mid-to-high end market, would be happily willing to pay a little more for better quality control. Especially ultra-wide and standard lenses show more outliers than desirable - not only among Tokinas but across the manufacturers (e.g. recently we tested 3 (three!) Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6 in Nikon mount without success). We are probably seeing negative outliers in excess of 25%(!) in this segment which is, frankly, embarrassing and unacceptable!

That all said we'd like to end this review with some more positive aspects. The (outer) build quality of the Tokina is on a very high level. The lens body is only based on tightly assembled, high quality plastics rather than the "duraluminium" finish used in previous AT-X lenses. However, the quality is still up to pro standards with the exception of the missing weather sealing. Tokina has improved the AF quite a bit - it doesn't really operate "silently" as promised but it's both fast and accurate in phase-detection AF mode. Some users may not like the huge, bulb-like front element which prohibits the use of front filters. However, it seems as if only this design approach solves the performance issues that are usually associated with ultra-wide angle lenses. So setting aside potential sample variations the Tokina is definitely worth a deeper look!

Reviews / Re: Why I Chose a Canon EOS 6D over a 5D MKIII
« on: February 09, 2013, 03:21:14 AM »
The 6D sounds like a great camera and that is a great review, but I prefer the 5D3 for the AF points, larger body, dual cards, multi controller joystick (especially on the grip) and most ergonomics in general.

As far as the center focal point, I can't remember the last time I used the center focal point. The 5D3 with all the those cross types spread out is really sweet.

There's really only one thing I'm envious of on the 6D and that is built in wifi. I have to use and Eye-Fi card for that.
I've never really run into a situation where the 1/2 DR would have made a difference. Therefore the banding issues of the 5D3 aren't an issue either. During test I do know the banding is considerably better than the 5D2.

Good points, and I do think that the 5D3 is perhaps the best all around camera available.  I suspect that most 5D3 users are quite happy with their purchase.  I also think, however, that most 6D users will be happy with their purchase and will discover that they got far more camera than what most people have written the 6D off to be.

I purchased the 5D3 last August. Still paid the premium, but as it was a brick and mortar store I didn't mind to support them. Coming from a 30D it was worth even that. Definitely saving up for a 16-35 instead of waiting for the 14-24 fantomas ;-) Just tested the 5D3 one night this week with the 50 f/1.4 wide open @ ISO 20k out in a soft snow storm. AF (I am using center point only) was incredibely snappy and accurate. Although lights were blurred a bit due to aperture. In comparison to a 30D the high ISOs are all I ever dreamed of. And I dare to say at its price tag it is the most versatile all round cam for serious amateurs and pro's who do not go for the 1Dx.As a high ISO geek I would have liked it to have the same MP count as the 6D or even as low as the 1Dx. But Canon won't eat into their PJ flagship. Recently took a picture of my cat at ISO 51k in an almost dark room:
and here's another low light pic at ISO 25k
No NR applied.
The 6D might even slightly surpass these in IQ due to the lower MP count and a new sensor.  8)
Cheers, Pedro.

EOS Bodies - For Video / Re: 1D X - Clean HDMI out
« on: February 08, 2013, 10:14:11 AM »
I agree with your logics as well, given the fact that the 1Dx not only is a workhorse for press togs, as videography is becoming the "new" medium to do one's job. So I hope for every journalist out there, to get updated with this, as the 1Dx is almost double the price of a 5D3. "Crippling down" things in this sense would be an unhappy move.

EOS Bodies / Re: Big Megapixel Camera in 2014
« on: February 08, 2013, 09:32:17 AM »
@neuro, mikael: Thanks a lot. This helps for my better understanding!

EOS Bodies / Re: Big Megapixel Camera in 2014
« on: February 08, 2013, 05:52:52 AM »
Jrista wrote;  However, the current approach to ADC taken by all manufacturers except Sony.

There are Panasonic with row wise ADC as Sony   , there are Aptina and Toshiba with ADC at the sensor chip with different solutions. Every 10 row in Aptina sensor as one  example
Sony has no over all patens regarding row wise ADC at the sensors edge.

And about Canons 120Mp sensor  do you mean that Canon has ADC at the sensor chip

I am not talking about "row-wise" in general. I am talking quite explicitly about Sony's CP-ADC w/ Digital CDS, which is an ADC for every single column that performs a refresh readout, negative read and register for each pixel, then full sensor read on top of the negative registration to produce a near-noiseless image. THAT is the genius behind Exmor, and why it performs better than every other sensor on the market.

Row-wise ADC is not the same, as it is just a form of bucketed parallel readout. It still has the potential (and frequently realizes that potential) to produce banding. Canon also has patents for bucketed parallel on-die ADC readout. According the the patents I've read recently, it is not row-wise but clock wise. Not really sure how that affects read noise or banding (I suspect a light hatching is probably the result), but it isn't much different than row-wise on-die ADC.

There is  ways around different patents, and the results shows that in the new Toshiba/Nikon sensor in 5200 with 65% QE and very good S/N figures and DR 13,3 stops

This is what David Hull wrote in another discussion we had  about patents     
The original IBM patent: US-5877715

The More recent Sony Patent: US-7864094 B2

The CDS is the "Correlated Double Sampler" the point of this is that when you clear the photo diode prior to recording a new image all of them reset to a slightly different reference voltage. This difference needs to be taken into account and subtracted off prior to recording the image so that this residual “noise” does not become part of the picture. For this reason, so two samples are taken with the first being subtracted from the second. Canon uses a little capacitor to do this (an analog approach). Sony does it by counting DOWN the SAR (successive Approximation Register) counter during the first sampling phase and then counting UP from this reference when the real image is recorded. Both of these methods serve to subtract out the residual "noise" in the photo site. Sony gets this essentially for free with their column SAR architecture. Canon has a column ADC patent as well; I don't have the number handy for that one.

and this is from Bob Newman

If you're interested this is Canon's patent for the CDS mechanism that they use. And here is Canon's column ADC.
The More recent Sony Patent: US-7864094 B2
That patent covers the use of the column ADC to 'bin' multiple pixels in the row, rather than the count down/count up CDS method.

ONE thing is for sure: Canon makes no column wise ADC sensors, the Sony only integrates the ADC. Canon still uses off chip, Analog Devices ADC's. That's why they can't get the performance that Sony, Toshiba does. One of the reasons that they can't is because their process geometry, on the old line, is just too coarse.

@Mike Risedal: Thank you for sharing! I am not a tech and non-anglo as well. But do I understand correctly, that Sony sensors apply kind of a black frame ( as we do it in long exposures at night) to get rid of all the noise before ever a new photograph is taken? Well, this allows much more noise free high ISOs then...So, when is it likely that Canon apply a similar system? My 5D3 seems to be a good investment until they are able to present a similar solution. 8)

What if Canon simply ditched the 5D3's sensor and put the 6D's sensor in it? I mean, same body, same AF system, everything, but made all 5D3s with the 6D's sensor from now on... Same sensor size, same company... Is it feasible, on the technical side?
I also believe that the 5D3 will have a much shorter product cycle than the previous 5D-cameras. A replacement (the 5DX?) will most likely come sooner than later.

A shorter product cycle seems intresting. Can't wait to see the improvements in high ISO IQ. But I am sorry to say that, I'd be a bit of dissapointed if the 5D's were about to turn out to be the D800 equivalents. My 5D3 is too much of great allround cam at its MP count. I bought it especially because of its high ISO qualities. But anyway, as long as they maintain that or even improve it, why not? Hope they keep to M and S-Raw modes. Cheers, Pedro

Lenses / Re: IS or no IS?
« on: February 08, 2013, 02:47:42 AM »
I guess, IS at this range is a plus for video or handheld photography. But I do some photography using my Canon 70-200 2.8 non IS and get nice results at very low speed, sometimes below 1/200. As the 5D3 allows me to crank up the ISOs quite a bit there is some space for experiments...

EOS Bodies / Re: Cost of Canon 5D mk III
« on: February 08, 2013, 01:37:42 AM »
The 5D3 is worth every buck. Bought it last August. Great value even at the 3.5k back then...Or you sit it out and wait for the 5D3n as mentioned in current  the Big Megapixal main thread ;-)

EOS Bodies / Re: Recommend Cheap Second Body
« on: February 08, 2013, 01:35:27 AM »
6D ?  :)

EOS Bodies / Re: Big Megapixel Camera in 2014
« on: February 07, 2013, 11:13:37 PM »
"That could be solved with a parallel digital readout approach that applies digital noise reduction similar to Sony. If Canon solves the noise problem, they could easily have both quality high and quality low ISO performance."

I just hope it turns out like this. An 1Dx is out of range for me. Therefore I really like the 5D3 for my type of photography. It is a very versatile allround cam allowing me to shoot at extremly high ISOs in decent quality. But honestly: 22.3 MP are way enough for me!

EOS Bodies / Re: Big Megapixel Camera in 2014
« on: February 07, 2013, 11:32:26 AM »
A faster update? One suggestion from a known source is that Canon has loose plans to replace and/or update the EOS 5D Mark III quicker than the previous iterations.

Speculation:  The 7DII will have newer sensor technology.  The 6D has lower read noise than the 5DIII and the 1Dx has lower read noise than the 6D.  If the 7DII is even better, then the 5DIII will be looking very dated compared to the rest of the lineup in this area.  So they might want to put out a 5DIIIn or something with just a sensor update.

5DIIIn sounds intresting. So based on that tech the next "regular" replacement could benefit from an even more advanced sensor tech by sometime 2018. I wonder how much the initial price tag will rise related to these improvements compared to the 3.5k they asked for the original" 5D3... 8) Uh, but anyway the 5D3 will remain a very nice camera, did some low light AF tests yesterday and it was very snappy even at distant nightlights and some falling snow!

Lenses / Re: I can't stop thinking about A MONSTER!
« on: February 07, 2013, 10:20:31 AM »
You're 28.  You don't have a car.  How you gonna carry that thing to places to use it?

You're 28.  Take the money you'd use for the lens, invest it in your retirement future.  Trust me, trust everyone who tells you that.  Even a modest investment now, will give you financial freedom when you're older.  A good thing! (from one who lives it)

Rent the lens when the urge happens.


As a side note - there are places in the wilds, here in Florida, that I would not bring a long L lens without also bringing a handgun.  Just sayin'.... and its not for fear of alligators or bears, but for getting robbed.  Its happened.

A very sound advice. Depends on what you are aiming at. I have a 70-200 2.8 non IS. Sure, I am doing nightphotography/nightscapes. That is more WA-stuff. So according to my type of photography, I'd opt for a lens rental...Ask Canon Guy ;-)

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