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Messages - pedro

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Hi everyone,
While enjoying the nightsky skills of my 5D3 and working my way up in the learning curve, I just thought about a WA lens for my purposes. I know, there is a 16-35, 17-40 a Samyang 14/2.8 MF. And another 12-24 from Sigma (?).

But, how are the possibilities of some 12-24 by Canon to show up these next two years? Currently I am taking pictures using a cheapo Canon 28/2.8 and that works pretty well. But there's times I'd like to go as wide as 12 mm:


Cheers, Pedro.

I was at the WFX 2012 Trade Show and our booth was immediately next to Canon's large booth. I spent a fair amount of time chatting with their camera representatives. They stated for normal situations the 1DX and 5D Mark III perform equally well. For low light/high ISO situations the 1DX performs better.

Due to it specs it must not perform differently than this! So I am happy for the PJs and everyone who can afford this cam. The 5D3 for me is plenty of camera, though. At almost half of the price. Coming from a 30D, ISO 25k is awesome...I even dare to go up as high as ISO 51kk and 102 k for b/w.
It's taking me back to my Contax 139 Quartz days some 30 years ago  8) 102k look similar to Tri-X pan pushed to ISO 3200  ;D Cheers, Pedro

I bought it three weeks ago for 3.6k CHF at a brick and mortar store.
After a grease issue on my old 30D I purchased back in 2007 and a rude letter from a canon rep after sending it in, I said to myself that I'll never buy a camera body online again.
So this time, I went to a shop in a town nearby. I met friendly people who were shocked when I told them my 30D within warranty issue.
So I paid a premium of 3.6k CHF for it, but I've seen the face of the person who sold it to me, I know her name, and she's there to send that baby in for me, whenever there is an issue.
They gave my a short intro to it and will update the firmware if needed.
Although the price tag is quite higher  than the current 3.1k CHF body only offers online , I prefer this over another online nightmare. It pays off well as I feel more save than back in 2007.

Therefore: No regrets, as the 5D3 is a too much of a camera to have a bad technical back up!

Buy it as low as ever possible, your online warranty conditions might be better than ours.

Cheers, Pedro

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon is out foxed.
« on: September 15, 2012, 10:26:22 AM »
Nikon and Sony have completely out foxed Canon.

Canon's first big mistake was putting only 22MP in the 5D3 with a sensor that performs about the same as the 5D2.

Having learnt from the lesson of the 1Ds3/5D2, Canon did not want to introduce a "lesser camera" (6D) than the 5D3 with the same sensor because lots of would-be purchasers of the 5D3 would simply buy the 6D instead. So the 6D will have 20MP to stop it stealing sales from those who want more MP (22) from the 5D3.

Where Nikon has outfoxed Canon is that their camera at about the same price ($2099 is close enough to $1999) but with 20% more pixels. Nikon were able to deliver a 24MP FF camera at $2099 because their next model up camera has substantially more megapixels - 36.

Canon's product lineup below the 1DX is screwed. They really need to throw it out and start over.

And why does Canon need to do that?

Because the number of megapixels in their sensors is now too low. And if megapixels didn't matter then why wouldn't the 6D have the same, if not more, than the 5D3?

You must have gotten the MP kool-aid.  MP's aren't everything!  If the rumored specs said 24 MP, would that and that alone make this on par?  No.  Where the d800 differentiates itself from the mk3 isn't in mp's, but in IQ and DR at ISO 100-800, and above ISO 800 Canon takes the lead in both IQ and DR.

Back to why these specs suck.  It isn't MP's --- if it said 40 MP's it would still suck due to only having 11 AF points with 1 cross type at the center, and sd card only memory (unless this new sensor fixed the DR issues - but if it did, then the 6d would be closer to $2800).  Those are really the biggest issues. It's 2012, we shouldn't have to center point recompose on a brand new $2000 camera.  I could even deal with SD only if the AF was actually modern - it doesn't need to be the 61 point of the mk3, but dang it use the 21 point from 7d or the 45 point from the 1d4.  If it had at least that then it would be a worthy purchase and sit on my left side as backup to my mk3 (if the ISO performance is close to that of the mk3).  As it stands, the throwback to 2008 AF is useless, and SD only would prevent any kind of burst shooting due because SD wouldn't be able to handle writing at higher speeds.  So sorry, while I agree these specs are a big fail --- it isn't because of MP's...
+1 Chuck Alaimo

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 6D Specs Leaked?
« on: September 15, 2012, 10:18:08 AM »
At reading some of the posts in this 21 page thread at the time I feel happy for not having waited on an entry FF body. About 3 weeks ago I bought the 5D3 and yes, I paid full price 3,6 k at a brick and mortar retail shop but I do not regret it one moment. It is a tremendously versatile camera (I am a passionate amateur, sometimes making a few bucks on selling a photograph, or getting remunerated with a "reader photographer fee" if the regional newspaper publishes a picture I took. I do all the ISOs. H1 and H2 are just fine for b/w available light as the "grain" even after post still looks like in the old days with pushed Tri-X pan's ;-) I like this "feature". And even though the 5D3 price is high (I've saved up for a long time) it is worth it. Getting kind of a mini 1Dx at almost half the price is great.
But a decent entry FF would make sense. The annoying thing in these specs is the SD only mode, and the AF unit. If  the sensor is based on the 5D3's and 1Dx the lower MP count might even help IQ-wise. Warning: I am not a tech. So, if this cam will have H1 (51k) and (102k) it will deliever. And we'd get back to affordable FF days after a long time. Hope it doesn't break the 2k mark.

Anyone out there having the same problems while doing night sky?
Yes, I happened to take a night shot with stars using a 5D3 yesterday, and I see this precise phenomenom for saturated stars when the default sharpening is used (just tested). When I turn sharpening off, the black halos disappear. I just tried it but am to lazy to produce screenshots for you... just try it yourself. Using unsharp mask as a "sharpening" filter is particularly good at producing black halos.

Well, yours is a very valid point. After reading the tips provided by fellow posters, I went back and put the RAW sharpness settings and unsharp masking to zero before converting the file to TIFF and: halos are gone. So there is a simple cure to all that. Then in post in CS2 I just did some unsharp masking and that was it. Very satisfied about the result halo wise. But I also will take care next time and won't do 45 shots within 15 minutes!
Here's the new sample. I took these RAWs in mRAW.

bkorcel, nubu,GuyF,wockawocka: Thank you for your inputs. I will take them into practice. It helps me a lot as I thought I had a defective device. But, as in most cases: It's always the dude behind the cam 8) What a privilege to live in this century, with helpful mates around the web! You're great folks.

I took a look at your link and can only suggest the points look a bit like hot pixels (assuming not all hot pixels would go red). I'm only speculating but maybe a combination of higher ISO and long exposure has caused them to get a bit hot.

Were you taking a number of long exposure shots in quick succession? This could produce hot pixels. Perhaps our resident guru Neuro might know.

You are right. I  took about 45 pictures within 15 minutes, mostly way up to ISOs as high as insane 51k and 102k. Absolutely unusable, though. Well, Neuro, may have another take on that too  8)

@wockawocka: thanks for your input as well! I will take less pictures. I followed examples seen on flickr concerning nightphotography. But yes, I will take it slower next time. As I aimed at "testing" the ISOs for the first time outside, there was a good thread in nightphotography on here, 1Dx vs 5d3 in ISO...Your input will be considered next time I am outside. The only thing is, that it started to look like this right after the first picture I took...as seen in post. Therefore I cannot be a 100% sure if that is a heat issue only...or at least not while I was starting to take pictures...otherwise I just know too less about any camera tech to judge on this...Thanks anyway, your input as all the others is much appreciated! Cheers.

@GuyF, risc32 thanks for your concern.

The phenomenum appears in RAW.
Sharpening mode setting is the in camera setting 3.
yes, I applied long expsoure NR, after the picture was taken.

There was a firmware update (1.1.3) out by June but as far as I could read, it did not address the black halo phenomenum.

Here's a full exif sample at mRAW (or is it related to mRAW?)

The black halos aren't "visible" at print size, but they appear as strange clusters...

Hope Canon gets this fixed by the next firmware update.
Anyone out there having the same problems while doing night sky?

Still enthusiastic about my 5D3 but...Did some night sky photography last night and detected in all the frames black shadows around certain star clusters, no matter what ISO setting it was.

Guess I've seen this in early reports about the 5D3 in March or April. So as I bought it exactly for this kind of photography...What can I do? Did I get a lemon? Serial number: 04230012696. bought the cam on August 27 from a retail dealer...


Thanks for your help. Cheers, Pedro.

Here's the dpr thread about it

Fiddled a bit more with my 5D3
Here are two samples
51k, some NR
102k, NR: Brightness 11, Chroma: 20, darkened a bit

B/W at these ISOs works quite well.

All I was looking for. Plenty of camera.

If we get some 25kish 51k some 6 years down, that'd be awesome!  8)

Well, A Usable ISO 51,200 for Color Images.

On the 5D3 I can use 51,200 as my limit for high-speed B&W. ISO 25,600 is my limit for Color Images.

You are right. Color looks way to strange. But converted to BW it just looks decent. The tad of noise stands for a 21st century "filmdays" effect  8)

A Usable ISO 51,200.

As mentioned in my recent post, I kinda heard or read about the 1Dx being one stop better at high ISOs. How usable are ISO 51k on the 1Dx? My 5D3 looks promising...yes there is some NR needed, but not that much, well exposed to the right. Anyone?

To the OP, if we take a look at Sensorgen.info data on quantum efficiency, we see it increases about 7-8% for every additional stop of ISO. If we follow that trend, assuming Canon can keep increasing Q.E. by about 8% per stop of ISO, and if they can maintain the rate of Q.E. improvement of 16% per 4.5-year cycle...then every 4.5 years we should see two more ISO levels. That would put the next generation at a native ISO 102400 on a sensor with about 57% Q.E. for the 5D IV, and if current statistics hold true, a native ISO of 204800 with about 60% Q.E. for the 1D XI.

Now, the real question is how usable that ISO will be. I am not sure a sustained linear increase of 8% per stop is really going to make an ISO 204800 usable. It'll be better than a digital boost ISO, but dynamic range is going to severely suffer and noise will still be horrendous. I would suspect that we won't see usable ISO 204800 until we are in the 80% Q.E. range, which would greatly improve S/N ratios even in the shadows. I don't know if we can really achieve that level of efficiency in a consumer-grade device, though...to date, its always required far more rigorous constraints on manufacturing quality, and usually requires some kind of active/thermoelectric cooling. Sony Exmor technology, combined with a backilluminated sensor and...really for honest usability...ungodly fast lenses...might make it a possibility. Either way...that would put usable ISO 204800 a good 8-10 years away at the earliest, or about two to two and a half product cycles.
@jrista: Thanks for your insightful comment. It seems like I was "intuitively" on track. As said earlier...If ISO 102k within the next 6 to 8 years gets improved in quality according to your post, it will be a big leap for every photographer. Fiddling with my 51 k and 102k these days I'd be even happy with some 25.6kish ISO 51200 about 6 years from now. It would be about a 2/3or one stop improvement, which I would highly appreciate. I guess it depends on one's type of photography. Coming fromTri-X pan film days, gearing towards Robert Frank and Robert Capa style, I feel pretty happy even at nowadays 51k on my 5D3. The 1Dx, as its said to be one stop better due to less MP, seems to be there already. That is plenty of improvent! Cheers and thanks, Pedro.

I suspect this situation will be down to what the R&D/ Marketing bods consider to be the most important feature for that time.

At one time, it was all about fps, AF and/ or megapixels. Now it seems to be about IQ, DR and ISO.

Without a doubt, the current 61pt AF seems to have satisfied most people - and most are happy with the 18-22mp range (note i said 'most' not 'all').

DR, IQ and ISO seem to be very much about the capabilities of the sensor combined with the light processing software used with the sensors.

The ability to improve the sensitivity of a sensor seems almost a given, working on how technology seems to improve. So, that would imply that the software needed to maximise the effectiveness of the newer sensor technology will be the guiding factor.

Will we see ISO listed at 408k or even 816k? I think we will - as H1 & H2 settings on the current 1D series model(s), because ultimately - for some strange reason - a whole load of people seem to want the ability to photograph a black cat in a coal cellar without a tripod or flash.

I like to push the ISO envelope as much as the next person (having spent most of my life doing shift work and using a camera at 3am frequently), but even in film days I found I could push a roll of 3200 to 12800 and hand hold at 1/60th second without too much effort. ISO 6400 on the 5D2 produced a much more acceptable image noise/ grain  wise and with the IS on some of the lenses, allowed me to shoot as slow as 1/20th hand held.

So I'm more than happy with what is currently available - but I wouldn't complain if I were offered more  ;)
soulmate.  8) I'm coming from film days as well. Had a Contax 139 Quartz back in 1982 and later on a short flirt with a Zenza Bronica 6x6. ISO 400 on it looked awesome, and yes I dared to push Tri-x pan to let's say ISO 1600 or 3200. I'm a black cat in a dark cellar type of photographer...The kick lies right there...So I am looking forward to much more improved ISOs in today's range by 2018 and the one or maybe even the other additional H1 and H2-stop... ::)

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