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Messages - dtaylor

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EOS-M / Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
« on: July 12, 2013, 08:32:32 PM »
Both of you need to read my post again.  For sake of time and sanity I am not going to explain to you that 4fps does not compensate for long lag time between the shots and enable capture something at the very exact moment you want.

I spent 3 hours shooting street the first night I got my M. Capturing the moment I wanted just involved pre-focusing and holding the shutter half way until the moment came. No different from capturing the moment with an all manual camera. If you're focused there's hardly any release lag.

You might miss a true surprise moment due to AF. But then again, you will with most cameras. I had one such moment that night (a kid running by me) and I would have needed my 7D to nail it.

I do wish Canon would make this easier on us with some additional options. Let me AF off the record button. And touch to focus (instead of touch to shoot). Make manual focusing useful (peaking + much shorter throw). And give me a DoF distance scale on screen. Give us that and the "moment" argument is completely moot.

Even without that, you can work with the camera and be ready.

1) Your kid doing something cute which you want to capture almost instantly.

I'm not going to lie and claim that the M is ideal for tracking kids running around. Neither is the iPhone, most P&S bodies, or a lot of mirrorless bodies. Kids can be as challenging as sports so grab a sports orientated DSLR for kids.

When kids are sitting down and being cute, I see no reason why you can't anticipate and capture the peak moment with the M. If I can do it with a street drummer....

2) Some event/occurance you saw while driving or stopped at light (as a passenger of course) that you want to record instantly.

You have a lot of those that are over and done with in the time it takes the M to AF? I know there's a lag, but come on....

Don't get fixated on pixel density and fps and all and swear that you would never touch iPhone. There will be time when it will be faster (note faster is not equal to better) for you to whip iPhone to take a shot while accessing M, switching on and fumbling with its quirks will actually miss the moment.

Playing right now at my iPhone has more AF/release lag then my M. On the M I'm using single point AF with the 22mm f/2. Haven't even really tried the others. Perhaps you're seeing more lag with the other modes?

EOS-M / Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
« on: July 12, 2013, 02:17:10 PM »
Does enabling "Continuous AF" in the current firmware accomplish what you want to do with "Touch to AF"?

Not exactly, but it's a compromise I'll explore next time I'm out.

Lenses / Re: Dxo tests canon/nikon/sony 500mm's
« on: July 12, 2013, 12:53:20 PM »
Sorry, but what the heck does sensor-based DR have to do with scoring a lens?!?

What the heck does DxO have to do with scoring DR or a lens?!?  ;D

The hilarity that is DxO continues.

EOS-M / Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
« on: July 12, 2013, 11:20:14 AM »
I think the EOS M may actually produce better image quality than the 7d, YES I WENT THERE!!! Whether thats because of better sensor or digic 5, I don't care, the images may just be better!

I think there's an improvement at high ISO. I'm really impressed with what I'm getting at 3200 and 6400.

another issue is that quick manual focus is near impossible, you have to spin the focus ring like 1000 times..

I would pay Canon another $100 right now to download a firmware release with these changes:

* Focus peaking.
* SHORT MF throw. Doing street photography I should be able to focus with a single twist.
* Touch to AF.
* C.Fn to move AF off the shutter and onto the record button (which sits useless in stills mode).
* Add distance / DoF info to the screen. If I choose f/8 and focus on something, show me on screen the DoF distances.

Lenses / Re: EF-M 11-22 f/4-5.6 IS STM Not Coming to North America?
« on: July 12, 2013, 10:59:42 AM »
Oh come on Canon! I was hesitant to buy the M at first, even at $299. I've been playing with it non-stop since I got it. This is actually a really good mirrorless body and deserves more credit then it got from the press. I thoroughly enjoyed shooting street with it the night I got it and will be doing a lot more of that. I've been playing with adapters and old glass. I love it.

I'm not that interested in the 18-55. I am interested in the 11-22. I am VERY interested in more fast primes like the 22 f/2. I would buy 24mm, 50mm, and 85mm equivalents tomorrow.

I wish Canon would pay me to get their mirrorless strategy on course. Between firmware 3 (focus peaking / short MF throw / touch to AF / AF on record button), new lenses, and new bodies, I would have them on course to backhanding Sony and m4/3 within 2 years.

Lenses / Re: 50mm Primes that don't suck wide open?
« on: July 12, 2013, 10:31:51 AM »
Since the sensor doesn't actually detect light from a fast cone, it can't contribute to the bokeh

I'm not sure where you read this, but it's demonstrably false. I'm looking at two 7D + Sigma 50mm shots on my screen right now, f/1.4 and f/2, same subject/distance/etc., and the difference in bokeh is quite clear. There are various sites online which demonstrate fast lens bokeh using both FF and crop, and you can confirm the difference. This guy directly addresses the point:

The idea that DSLRs can't see light cones beyond a certain point became popular with an open letter at Luminous Landscape:

I remember reading the letter and doing the test where you defocus and shoot at f/1.4, f/2, and then slightly rotate the lens and compare the shots. Yes, the DSLR is playing with ISO at f/1.4. But it's also quite clear that f/1.4 has more exposure then f/2, i.e. the detached lens shot is between the f/2 and f/1.4 attached shots.

I'm not convinced that this is primarily the result of digital sensors and the angle of the light seen on SLRs. Why?

* The same claim was made in relation to vignetting long before the LL article, but 35mm film shot in a SLR vignettes just as much. Most people just never make the comparison to find out.

* Logically the claim leads to the conclusion you made about bokeh, yet bokeh is observably quite different. The camera can't fake that.

What no one has done, to my knowledge, is very, very carefully shoot and develop 35mm film and check the density to determine the t-stop of a lens at f/4, f/2.8, and f/2, and then compare with f/1.4 to see if there's a shift. That's because this would require equipment most do not have along with meticulous work. It's easy to do these kind of tests digitally, and not so easy to do them and do them right with film. (Looking for vignetting is easy, but precisely determining the exposure received by the film to compute t-stop and compare with digital is not.)

It would not surprise me in the least to discover a t-stop shift at fast apertures due to some factor inherent to lens design and the registration distance in a SLR. We treat f-stop as if the resulting change in exposure is absolute, but it's not. T-stop varies between lenses and with subject distance using the same lens. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that it shifts at fast apertures as well.

Nor does it surprise me that camera companies would compensate for this in firmware.

EOS-M / Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
« on: July 11, 2013, 08:28:23 PM »
Nice if the M had a sub-APS-C sensor, similar to Nikon for long lens work

Nope. It's not conducive to hand holding long glass nor is it a fast shooter, and typically long glass subjects are moving.

I'm glad it's APS-C. Better IQ, and old lenses work better via adapter. m4/3 makes every old lens a tele.

I'm not a betting man, but if you were to slap on the 22mm f/2 STM, or even a Zeiss 35mm f/2 ZE (or 21mm f/2.8 for an almost equivalent FOV) on an EOS-M and compared it to the RX1, I'm almost positive you'd pick the latter as a more pleasing image 9/10 times.

Out of camera at 100% on screen? Yes. After post processing and printing? Probably couldn't tell the difference except at high ISO and in a few edge cases (i.e. the Sony lens might be better in the corners wide open or better shooting into the sun or something).

I'm not knocking the Sony. If I had the disposable cash I might have one. Just being realistic about the differences I see in available images online.

Lenses / Re: 50mm Primes that don't suck wide open?
« on: July 11, 2013, 02:29:13 PM »
If you want the blur and/or light gathering ability of a fast 50, the Sigma is the best choice for Canon. The bokeh is amazing and the IQ as good as the 1.2L.

I suspect a large percentage of the AF QC complaints are actually related to the challenge of shooting wide open and nailing/keeping the plane of focus where you want. With a Canon L fast prime the gut reaction is "what am I doing wrong", but with a 3rd party fast prime it's "what did the manufacturer do wrong."

I have about the same difficulty with any of my fast primes, and my success rate has improved as I've learned better technique.

EOS-M / Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« on: July 11, 2013, 02:47:31 AM »

I found a third party EF to EF-M adapter for $45 that people have actually tried and proven to work well on EOS-M.

Which third party adapter? Where are the reviews? I'm definitely interested.

Same here. Link?

EOS-M / Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
« on: July 11, 2013, 01:58:29 AM »
Construction is fabulous!  Very solid in the hand and the 22 f/2 fits better and tighter than my other bodies.  Why can't a 5D3 lens fit this tight???


Even with the new firmware the AF is perhaps, ummmm, deliberate.  But it's no worse than the S95 in that regard.  I think it will work fine for around the house and vacation duty.

I'm OK with it. One trade off is that it always nails the focus.

Well worth the $299...if you are on the fence, jump off and pick one up before they are gone.

It was a steal at that price.

EOS-M / Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
« on: July 11, 2013, 01:56:02 AM »
I frequently carry my 1D X + 24-70 II by just the handstrap.  ;)

You're a mad, mad man.

You can set the M up with back-button AF (the * 'button') with C.Fn-5.

Thanks. Alas, I don't really care for that function on that button (location). I did put C.Fn-5 on my quick menu though because I will switch based on the situation.

Now if only there was a C.Fn for focus peaking and for short MF throw  ;D

EOS-M / Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
« on: July 11, 2013, 01:53:05 AM »
Had my EOS-M out last night for some street shooting. I was really happy with the camera and results (that I could see on the screen) until I got home and loaded the SD card...and it was unreadable  :(

I tried multiple photo recovery programs while testing the M with other SD cards. The photos could not be recovered, and I couldn't reproduce the issue. At first I was afraid there was a camera issue, but now I'm thinking it was the card. Everything (Mac/Win/disk utilities) reports a much smaller capacity for the card then should be available (i.e. <4 GB and it's an 8 GB card) and it's not a partition issue. In retrospect I should have caught this when I first put that card in the camera. Before changing from RAW to JPEG I remember thinking "that's all the RAWs this can hold?"

It was an older no-name card I had lying around, something a relative handed me over a year ago after upgrading to a bigger card. What was I thinking?  >:(

My M now has a SanDisk Extreme 16 GB. It better live up to their reputation.

Impressions from the night of shooting?

* AF is actually usable for most street, but...this camera would be a lot better in this respect if we could move AF to the record button (the exp. comp. button is not a good place) and if we had focus peaking. I also wish we had a "tap to focus" option in addition to "tap to shoot". I don't want AF to have anything to do with the shutter.

* MF throw is way too long. This is electronically coupled and can be anything Canon sets.

* I love being able to touch select focus points.

* With the 22mm I'm able to hand hold down to 1/10s even though I can't hold it like a DSLR.

* I feel comfortable to ISO 6400.

* I left +1/3 exp. comp. practically the entire time.

* Definitely does not draw the attention of a DSLR.

* The touch screen has one major issue: it acts on its own while rubbing against your shirt. Even got a shot thanks to this ;D (too bad it's gone). By the end of the night I found myself turning the camera off and/or hitting play. The latter prevents setting changes and lets the screen timeout, but the camera is still on and ready to shoot. I wish there was a "sleep screen" button or icon on the screen.

* Being used to SLRs I hate the relatively long blackout time.

I realize this probably isn't going to happen, but if Canon addressed the first points it would literally move the camera up a class for me.

EOS-M / Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
« on: July 09, 2013, 07:19:23 PM »
* Smaller and heavier then I anticipated. Heavy enough that I wouldn't want to use just a hand strap.

* AF isn't as bad as I feared. Certainly no 7D or 5D3, but I think it will be usable for all the situations where I will use the M. It should actually be usable for street (I'll find out tonight). Note: I'm judging the single focus square mode.

* Already love the 22mm f/2. Sharp, great bokeh.

* Touch screen interface is nice. The UI could use some tweaks to increase speed even more. But I don't think it's necessarily a negative vs. a design with more physical controls (in this size/format). It's better and worse. I have a feeling that touch to select focus point will prove to be a big positive for this UI over a more physical UI. My only real complaint is that I've already had my shirt change something, and I'm not on the sensitive mode.

* I'm thinking I will end up wanting an OV for some uses.

* I don't like that MF is disabled in AF and AF+MF (until after you AF and only while you hold the shutter). I realize the ring is electronically coupled, but I want a custom function where I can set it to always work if the camera is on. For that to be practically usable I suppose we would need to be able to move AF off the shutter button. That's fine with me, it's how every SLR I own is setup, and that red dot button isn't doing anything useful in still mode.

* Is it just me, or does it get warm?

* So far I've only tried one well lit scene, but...ISO 6400 JPEGs look great. After Noise Ninja they have similar noise levels to my 35mm NPH400 scans from a decade ago. More importantly, they have similar structure, i.e. the noise looks more like a fine grain film, not objectionable at all. 12800 has objectionable noise but still seems usable after some NR in post. I imagine this could fall apart with a poorly exposed scene (typical of crop at high ISO), but with good exposure I'm impressed.

This seems a bit better then my 7D, or at least better in JPEG (haven't compared RAWs yet). Sensor? DIGIC 5?

For being widely criticized and panned, this isn't a bad mirrorless body at all. I think Canon could have a hit if they:

* Improve AF even further (70D sensor).
* Tweak the UI and add focus peaking.
* Add OV and/or EV options.
* And finally: more lenses! Give us some more great primes like the 22mm f/2.

I'm happy I jumped on the $300 deal.

EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« on: July 08, 2013, 01:09:03 AM »
a 70D doing better than 6D in ISO performance is all possible.

I hope the 70D improves upon Canon's current 18 MP sensor high ISO, but I have zero expectation that it would be better then the 6D in this respect. It is technologically possible for a crop sensor to out perform a FF one on high ISO. Just try any modern APS-C camera against the original 1Ds. But that's not going to happen within the same generation.

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