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Messages - ashmadux

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16
EOS Bodies / Re: More 7DII focus problems
« on: December 23, 2014, 02:32:26 PM »

The comparing with the cars that Neuro made is just the same. If you are not used to drive a Porsche with manual gearbox and manual clutch and compare that with the car you are used to with automatic gearbox. Then you will decide an hour later that it is to complicated, that he is missing the contact between driver and road, but if you learn to use that car, then you will regret to step in your regular car again.

Don't get me wrong, for portraits and landscape the 6D is much better then the 7D2, but for action, no men, that will be won by the 7D2 when you can drive that car :).

Here is the car comparison problem as it relates to these two bodies.
You are comparing cars.
You should be comparing a car to a pickup truck.
An action camera to a stills camera.

I found the 5DII to be more accurate for still photography than the 7D. It wouldn't be beyond possible that the 5DIII or 6D would be more accurate than the 7D II for still photography.


What this guy said.

I normally test with still objects or parts of the scenery - signs, patterns, buildings, desk items. It erases the variation in movement. As basic as it gets. The unit was a dud. No big deal, but it would have been a big problem for the canceled shoot.

I havent posted the pictures of the af errors because im not out to attack a camera, thats pointless.
However at some point ill post some 7d2 long exposure images (spot AF point) along with the 6d comparisons. They wont be anything surprising to those that do FF night photography.






17
EOS Bodies / Re: Ron Martinsen Blasts the 7DII in his review
« on: December 23, 2014, 02:13:41 PM »
Quote

Look, you said you didn't try to discredit the AF performance when you did.  That's just fact as shown above.

You had trouble making a simple mode of AF to work that I as a pretty inexperienced photographer (just 3 years as a very part time hobbyist) had no issue with.  Then again it is what I use the most.

You used this experience to suggest that the reviewer in question was right about the camera.  Not that you had a bad copy or might have made some mistake but presented it as evidence he was right. 

I say, based on my brief experience, the one other person I know who raves about the camera and yes the majority of reviewers that you either made a mistake or had a unit that wasn't working correctly.  I am also seeing daily new galleries of excellent images shot with this camera that simply wouldn't be possible with the AF system as you describe it.

So, I'll try once again.  Although we only have your word for it I take at face value everything you have said about your rental experience with that one copy of the camera.  I accept it, I would hate to think that I had spent so much time debating this with the kind of person that would make such a thing up.  Just take it from me, I'm in no way denying what you say happened, okay?  I don't think I have ever said that you didn't have this experience.

What I have said is that if you really are attempting to present that as being typical of the experience that 7dII users who work with the camera will have then you are pushing the bounds of credibility.

For what it's worth, no you don't have the nicest tone but what the hell, it's not like we're neighbours so we don't have to put up with each other any more than we need to do we?  :)

I hear that. All i did was agree with the (apparently disliked) reviewer based on my usage. I cannot say if that situation is typical...heck i hope not.

Photog neighbors...that would actually be very cool.


Cheers, happy shooting (with good Af, heheh :P)

18
EOS Bodies / Re: Ron Martinsen Blasts the 7DII in his review
« on: December 23, 2014, 12:45:19 PM »

Have some perspective. You dont see me here trying to discredit the AF as not bein ggood enough.... I stated that I along with others had problems with the AF, as did I. If you works for you, great.

Fascinating.  So what did you mean when you said:-

Quote
I have the set of test shots from the recent rental i did. Af was basically a disaster. I was going to use it for a test shoot, but very glad the weather didnt hold up- it would have been a complete waste of time. Sot Af helped, but even with that, the images were not as good as my M, and nothing close to my old workhorse t2i. Without af accuracy, the camera is a brick. There's nothing left to do with it.

I would hate to see just what you would write if you were trying to "discredit" something.

Quote

"But it worked for me!" Is not a rational response - you cannot discredit someone else's experience because it wasn't your own. That's just being foolish.

This is a photog forum, is it that hard to figure that many people in here know how to use cameras?  You guys are a trip.

I'd have a think about what you've written so far before you accuse others of being irrational.  It seems the large majority can get this AF system to work for them much better than you are suggesting it did for you.  If you're in a minority of people that can't it has to be worth questioning your experience, I know that if I was in your shoes I would.  I'd at least wonder if the copy I rented had a fault or if I had missed something.


Sorry but i have to go there. You don't make any sense, and your approach to someone else's experience is unfortunately quite popular (and misguided) in these photo forums. Again, I encourage the use of PERSPECTIVE (Sorry, caps).

Your argument is full of holes. Here's why.

You were not there to see an experienced photog (I am :) ) have the AF problems in action. Nope.
The AF was NOT working well. This is a fact. You have no information to discredit it. Nothing.
You havent seen the files. Or have you? :P
OBVIOUSLY it was the unit that i had. I cant speak for other units. Crazy, thinking, right? :P
What "majority" are you speaking of? That you even know of? Show us your sampling data and method of how you reached this conclusion. Anything?...oh..NOPE. Oh.. you read forums.....riiiiiiight. :P

If the camera was not working as it should, what should i write? a glowing review?

You are being fairly ridiculous, and while i probably dont have the nicest tone, it not personal at all. But i believe in talking what you know. You dont have enough info for the statements you are making.



19
EOS Bodies / Re: Ron Martinsen Blasts the 7DII in his review
« on: December 23, 2014, 12:29:05 PM »
Just as with the original 7d, the "advanced" Af produced an awful lot of oof images- for newbs and advanced users alike.
100 percent agreement. I'd even bet that the same held true for most 5D3 and 1DX owners. We are not just talking about changing the number of AF points here, we are introducing zones, tracking, acceleration, and more. This is an AF system that is 20 times as complex as that found in lesser cameras.... of course it will be harder to learn... and of course there will be a learning curve.

There is nothing advanced about setting the camera in manual point select, focusing, and clicking the shutter. NOTHING. Any default af setting should be able to accurately focus on the set point, or even when set to automatic point selection. Its not that difficult at all. Whats' difficult is when that most basic of camera functions doesnt work well. And just to clarify, Im talking about still subjects/persons/landscapes.
You could just leave it in single point mode, but then why did you buy the camera???? It is a good starting point and a confidence builder, but if someone bought the camera for it's advanced AF capabilities, they had better expect to take the time and effort to learn how to use it properly.

We are talking the difference between a family sedan and a race car. If you have only driven a family sedan and then get into a race car, you don't expect to keep with the field at an Indy race... You start off driving slow and easy.... you learn new skills, you learn how it handles, you get experience, and you get better and better. To expect anything else is irrational.... It is the same with a camera.

What can be advanced is setting up focal (not everyone has the space) or other afma software. Its a pain in the arse, and wastes valuable time.

Calibrating your equipment is NEVER a waste of time. Trying to take a sharp picture with a lens that needs a 10 point AFMA adjustment is a lesson in futility.


Don, we are actually totally in agreement.

I meant single 'manual' point selection. Also I noted the 7d2 rental did get much better when using spot af point mode- but oddly the regular single point did not work at all, and it could not focus with a 24-105 (IS on, heh), wide or telephoto. Advanced modes are not necessary for my work - but i dont consider spot AF advanced at all. this is an indication that i likely had a bad unit.

Calibrating unfortunately is a MUST. Im also very aware of the technical reasons why lenses and bodies just wont work well together in some instances, thanks to Canon techs, not my opinion. But that kind of information is well beyond even the techies like myself.

I bet that many or these guys making snarkly comments have NEVER sat with an actual tech in front of a screen (at the repair center) to evaluate AF accuracy after a repair. I have. It was awesome. Canon can give you a camera that is not tweaked properly, but if you cant see it, then its a wash.


20
EOS Bodies / Re: More 7DII focus problems
« on: December 23, 2014, 12:12:57 PM »
The Af on my 6d is spotty at best, but even that beat the pants of the 7d2 tester i had.

Yeah, my Subaru station wagon isn't the fastest car out there, but it beat the pants off the Porsche I test drove.

Whatever, bub.

You have added zero the conversation. And youre not funny.

Unlike your nonsense comment, I have the pictures.

Pictures of what? Of the impossibility to get an excellent AF of the 7D2?

That seems to me the same feeling as Neuro mentioned by comparing the Subaru and the Porsche. To be clear, the reason there is the driver, not the car.

To be clear, how did you come to that conclusion? Details, please.

21
EOS Bodies / Re: Ron Martinsen Blasts the 7DII in his review
« on: December 23, 2014, 12:08:57 PM »

I have the set of test shots from the recent rental i did. Af was basically a disaster. I was going to use it for a test shoot, but very glad the weather didnt hold up- it would have been a complete waste of time. Sot Af helped, but even with that, the images were not as good as my M, and nothing close to my old workhorse t2i. Without af accuracy, the camera is a brick. There's nothing left to do with it.

Believe what you will, but i do i have the proof. the 7d2 is completely off my list, and especially without the touch screen, the 70d is back on my (eventual) buy list. I learned my painful lessons with the first 7d. Not again.

You can stop right there.  I have a 70D and I am very happy with it, the AF is great.

I was lucky enough to be able to spend 30 minutes playing with a friend's 7d2 last , it had just arrived.  Here's the rub . . .

If you could not get good, sharp pictures from the 7dII then DO NOT buy the 70D.

The 7dII from that 30 minutes is perfectly capable of nailing just about anything (reasonable) we threw at it last night and we got quite inventive by the end.   If you honestly believe that the 7dII AF system is not good enough for you to take pictures with there will be no point trying the 70d. 

I'm sorry to be blunt but as others have said you really are pushing credibility suggesting that the AF system is so bad.


Have some perspective. You dont see me here trying to discredit the AF as not bein ggood enough.... I stated that I along with others had problems with the AF, as did I. If you works for you, great.

"But it worked for me!" Is not a rational response - you cannot discredit someone else's experience because it wasn't your own. That's just being foolish.

This is a photog forum, is it that hard to figure that many people in here know how to use cameras?  You guys are a trip.





22
EOS Bodies / Re: Ron Martinsen Blasts the 7DII in his review
« on: December 23, 2014, 12:01:25 PM »
@ashmadux

My experience is consistent with you in that when my M gets everything right it produces better images than my 7d, I put this down to the later generation digic.  However there are many situations where the m just won't deliver for me where my 7d will.  I'll jump to the defence of both models where I feel appropriate as I think both were unfairly maligned by lazy or time-pushed reviewers.  That said I would also be the first to agree with anybody who said that neither were perfect when new and less so now.  I would also like to thank the reviewers for making the M so inexpensive.  Keep the 'bad' reviews of the 7d2 coming wink wink.

What I cannot fathom is how you can find the image quality of the T2i better than the 7d.
Same sensor.  Same digic generation.

I can only therefor assume you had a bad copy of the 7d, or that you didn't have sufficient time to set it up to your liking.  I was about 4 weeks in before I was happy with the AF, sorry, delighted with the af.

The raw recipe took me a little while too, favouring luminance NR over colour NR helps a lot.  The jpegs from my m are definately superior, when everything else on the m is behaving.


Hehe ive had this convo a million times in these forums but its all good. Im not complaining, Im just sharing my experience. Ive stated before- my 7d was gold for a year, then it went crazy and canon couldnt fix it. Thats that story.

The 7d and t2i sensors are from the same family, but they are not the same. The t2i does not exhibit the same noise levels, and is very very clean at iso 100/200. The M has the same sensor as the t4i- a bit sharper with the penalty of slightly more noise. It has more noise than the t2i, but its not overly offensive. I only state facts- i have years of usage with these models and Im a SUPER pixel peeper. IQ is of ultra importance to me, as a creative.


Personally, i love my M, while others hate its very existence. It takes great photos, and you cant get the 22/f2 on standard bodies.

The main reviews i believe is TDP. That guy bryan knows his stuff. All the data is there.

23
EOS Bodies / Re: Ron Martinsen Blasts the 7DII in his review
« on: December 23, 2014, 11:34:05 AM »
Just as with the original 7d, the "advanced" Af produced an awful lot of oof images- for newbs and advanced users alike.

And yet, somehow – miracle upon miracle – my 7D managed to deliver a very high percentage of crisply focused shots with a diverse array of lenses in a wide variety of settings...and the keeper rate with my 1D X is even higher.   So either I've had some Canon bodies with exceptionally good AF performance, or you've had some Canon bodies with some exceptionally poor AF performance.  I'm not that lucky, so either you're unlucky and keep getting defective cameras (except that amazing T2i of yours), or one of us is doing something wrong that's leading to OOF shots.  Except my shots are usually in focus.

Your rationale is a bit too basic.... There will be variation in cameras, thats not hard to figure out. And yep, there were MANY happy 7d users. I actually was one, for the first year. then the AF broke, and canon wasnt able to fix it after 4 attempts. I had to junk it, and trust me i loved that body. So yep, i was there with you, for a time. The sensor had its own issues, with on/off mosquito noise, which was confirmed by canon.

I can say that i am entirely NOT happy that my t2i is my workhorse. The 7d was it's replacement. And the 6d was....but its all about performance. The t2i' + 70-200mk2 AF and performance is utterly dependable, with thousands of frames  of people and style over the years. A lot of photogs in these forums go crazy when you have a different opinion or experience...and its kind of nonsensical.

We can argue semantics, and different experiences, but i think we can all agree that point, focus, shoot, is not that hard.

I wouldn't want other photogs going through Af problems either. We pay good money for this kit.



24
Lenses / Re: Impressions from the EF 16-35mm f4 L IS USM
« on: December 23, 2014, 11:20:33 AM »
These days I rarely use my IS at all (well once this year) on any of my IS lenses.
Whilst I fancy the 16-35 F4 very much I struggle to think of a use for the IS for my photography, I don't use it on my Canon 800 F5.6 L IS even when hand holding so on a 16-35?
Still if people want it then Canon would be silly not to include it!

I find this very odd. Canon is not likely to drop the price anyways, and its always a net benefit. Always. Im confused anytime someone would 'complain' about it...just doesn't make sense to me. (Sounds kind of photog snobby)

PS- no IS on 800mm....sir i think you are really a statue  :P :P

25
Lenses / Re: Next Lens Purchase...where is the gap in my gear?
« on: December 23, 2014, 11:14:59 AM »
Mine will be the 35mm f2 IS.

Rented it twice, its a nice lens. Definitely not L quality rendering (fringing, agrhgrgh), but does well on both FF and crop. But not a 600 dollar nice lens, so waiting for a deal.

A fun backup would be the 8-15. Its FANTASTIC....i try to rent it every time i get a chance. I actually prefer it on a ccrop, because circle photos are useless for me (atm)

26
Lenses / Re: Which Canon Full Frame Camera is For You?
« on: December 23, 2014, 11:12:00 AM »
6d
+non-mushy directional pad (who designed that mess?)
+better sharpness (RAW pictures are kinda softee)
+The Af of even an old rebel
/ keep the spectacular iso performance

= 6d2 must have

IMHO all the 6d needs is the Af of even a rebel and it will be a 50% better camera. The body has a nice feel to it, perfectly weights to mid-telephoto primes, and with a grip the handling is sublime.


27
EOS Bodies / Re: Ron Martinsen Blasts the 7DII in his review
« on: December 23, 2014, 12:06:59 AM »
A couple of things I noted about the review which seem contrary to all other opinions were:

- Slight disappointment with the sensor performance: To be fair a lot of the early posts on CR were of the same view, some commentators (e.g. Scott Kelby) raved about it, most have now accepted its better than the previous generation but not as good as perhaps they had wished or indeed the competition. However, the strange thing with this review is the implication that its worse than the 70D, which is the first review stating this, but also perhaps this is caused by the fact he is reliant on in Camera JPEG processing!

- AF system inaccurate: This is really strange, he states "I was disappointed with the high number of out of focus shots I got for such a slow moving activity " and also implies disappointment in focus accuracy, this is strange as virtually all other reviews have held this out as a strong point of the camera. One has to ask why, when others were absolutely raving about its performance and comparing with canons top of the line cameras/  For me this is a more important comment if I were buying - is there some merit in what he says and if so why does everyone else have contrary results here!


At the end of the day its an opinion, but remember he is a blogger and wants to drive traffic to his site as he can then get some $$$ for click trough's, controversial blogs do this - after would we have bothered reading it if it had been broadly neutral?

I agree with everything in his review. And yep he's right, the sensor on the first 7d was trash.

I have the set of test shots from the recent rental i did. Af was basically a disaster. I was going to use it for a test shoot, but very glad the weather didnt hold up- it would have been a complete waste of time. Sot Af helped, but even with that, the images were not as good as my M, and nothing close to my old workhorse t2i. Without af accuracy, the camera is a brick. There's nothing left to do with it.

Believe what you will, but i do i have the proof. the 7d2 is completely off my list, and especially without the touch screen, the 70d is back on my (eventual) buy list. I learned my painful lessons with the first 7d. Not again.

For some people, a camera with fewer configuration options and complexities will yield better results.

Oh boy, it's you again. Instead of tryign to be clever- which you are failing at- say something that matters. I have nothing to prove to you, only adding to the conversation.

ANYWAYS....

Just as with the original 7d, the "advanced" Af produced an awful lot of oof images- for newbs and advanced users alike.

There is nothing advanced about setting the camera in manual point select, focusing, and clicking the shutter. NOTHING. Any default af setting should be able to accurately focus on the set point, or even when set to automatic point selection. Its not that difficult at all. Whats' difficult is when that most basic of camera functions doesnt work well. And just to clarify, Im talking about still subjects/persons/landscapes.

What can be advanced is setting up focal (not everyone has the space) or other afma software. Its a pain in the arse, and wastes valuable time.

I cannot use unreliable Af, and thats why the 6d is about to get sold as well. I only own 5 canon cameras, so yeah....you go ahead and enjoy that 7d2, if you want that's not my problem. Your attempts at levity are useless.
 

28
EOS Bodies / Re: More 7DII focus problems
« on: December 22, 2014, 11:52:59 PM »
The Af on my 6d is spotty at best, but even that beat the pants of the 7d2 tester i had.

Yeah, my Subaru station wagon isn't the fastest car out there, but it beat the pants off the Porsche I test drove.

Whatever, bub.

You have added zero the conversation. And youre not funny.

Unlike your nonsense comment, I have the pictures.

29
EOS Bodies / Re: More 7DII focus problems
« on: December 22, 2014, 11:16:15 PM »
good humor found here. made my day. I'll go for that pelican... 8)

Yes, laughing is more fun than crying, or complaining, or crabbing.   We all need a little of it or we'll go NUTS !!"
On the serious side tho', I'm truly a believer that some of the 'focus issues" with the 7D2 come from the system itself and how it operates.  And I really had a tough time with it at first, and couldn't figure out why it focused PERFECTLY on a small leaf half way to my target as the camera moved -- panning -- and it should have stayed on the bird ... and am still not completely engaged with this camera yet.  Need more time in the field, of course, like any new equipment, the learning curve ... 

Anyway, was hoping some of those cameras that seem to have the focus issues are really a part of that learning curve -- after the first week, I was  reading all the problems and almost sent mine back -- then, suddenly, I clicked in, and now works spot on -- altho', I still need plenty more time out on the trails before it will become auto-routine instead of "think every time".   

Seems like some of the responses here too indicate the 'broken camera' accusations come from experienced guys too that maybe don't want to admit it could be the brain behind the viewer ... and it should never come to that -- because when it does, then it sticks and the camera will always be blamed.  There is no reason to think less of yourself or anyone else that needs a little kick in the pants to "get it" ... I was really glad to figure this out and even happier I didn't have to return the camera for repair -- mainly because the problem was with the shooter ( ME  :) ! )and not the technology - at least I believe that at the moment.

As an aside too - I was shooting / testing / learning it w 70-200 L IS F-4 as well, really sharp and quick-reacting lens ... then I stuck the 100-400 V.2 on it, and it knocked me out - how fast and on-target it is.  I mentioned before on another thread the 7D2 and the 100-400 V.2 are an amazing pairing and seem made for one another.   Anyone has any doubts about the 7D2 and the 100-400 V.2, sit those doubts on the back burner, because if you pair them up, you are in for a real treat !!   


What does "i clicked in.." mean?

In my test, the Af began to work when set to spot af. Regular Af select was not working at all. The Af on my 6d is spotty at best, but even that beat the pants of the 7d2 tester i had.

It's not worth it, imho.

30
EOS Bodies / Re: Ron Martinsen Blasts the 7DII in his review
« on: December 22, 2014, 11:12:08 PM »
A couple of things I noted about the review which seem contrary to all other opinions were:

- Slight disappointment with the sensor performance: To be fair a lot of the early posts on CR were of the same view, some commentators (e.g. Scott Kelby) raved about it, most have now accepted its better than the previous generation but not as good as perhaps they had wished or indeed the competition. However, the strange thing with this review is the implication that its worse than the 70D, which is the first review stating this, but also perhaps this is caused by the fact he is reliant on in Camera JPEG processing!

- AF system inaccurate: This is really strange, he states "I was disappointed with the high number of out of focus shots I got for such a slow moving activity " and also implies disappointment in focus accuracy, this is strange as virtually all other reviews have held this out as a strong point of the camera. One has to ask why, when others were absolutely raving about its performance and comparing with canons top of the line cameras/  For me this is a more important comment if I were buying - is there some merit in what he says and if so why does everyone else have contrary results here!


At the end of the day its an opinion, but remember he is a blogger and wants to drive traffic to his site as he can then get some $$$ for click trough's, controversial blogs do this - after would we have bothered reading it if it had been broadly neutral?

I agree with everything in his review. And yep he's right, the sensor on the first 7d was trash.

I have the set of test shots from the recent rental i did. Af was basically a disaster. I was going to use it for a test shoot, but very glad the weather didnt hold up- it would have been a complete waste of time. Sot Af helped, but even with that, the images were not as good as my M, and nothing close to my old workhorse t2i. Without af accuracy, the camera is a brick. There's nothing left to do with it.

Believe what you will, but i do i have the proof. the 7d2 is completely off my list, and especially without the touch screen, the 70d is back on my (eventual) buy list. I learned my painful lessons with the first 7d. Not again.

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