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Messages - Meh

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31
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« on: May 22, 2013, 10:21:08 PM »
WTF? my posts were deleted AGAIN!

There was nothing wrong with the second lot (there was no reference to fascists or nazis)

oh except I wasn't gushing over how I love the new Adobe subscription model
please this level of sensorship is retarded cant he mod that removed my posts
please PM me with a reasonable reason why?

seriously is Adobe paying CR to crush the negative feedback or what?
 ::)

Not sure what "second lot" you're referring to but the post you made last night deserved to be deleted and if I was the mod I would have banned you from the site.

32
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« on: May 21, 2013, 10:31:19 PM »
Ironically, the best way to send a message to Adobe is to buy their product.


Buying CS6 rather than renting will show the model we prefer. And when it comes round to the time when people would normally be upgrading, then they'll notice that people are sticking with what they've got.

That'll show 'em... give them that $200 and see how they like it... take that Adobe!

33
Lenses / Re: Downgrading my equipment - looking for advice
« on: May 21, 2013, 10:29:07 PM »
Sorry you fell, hope you're feeling better.

It's not clear from your post why you're downgrading, I assume it's connected to hitting your head but what's the exact reason:  i) because you want less weight or ii) because you needed the money from selling the expensive gear or iii) you just want to try to go with primes or iv) you want a smaller system.

Without know more I'd say keep the 5D3 and just get the few primes you want.  On the other hand, you want to pick up an 85, 135, and 200mm prime lens but you could have kept the 70-200 and covered all those focal lengths and certainly been "good enough" as you stated.

I don't really get what you're thinking here.


34
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX and 5D3 RAW files
« on: May 21, 2013, 12:41:20 PM »
Certainly, let me use an analogy which might help.  Lets say you are recording a violinist onto a tape recorder using a high quality tape.  When the violinist plays softly you have to amplify the signal to increase the volume.  As you do so you also increase the noise from the tape.  Maybe the violinist is playing so soft that their sound level falls to the point where it's difficult to tell if it's a violin or tape hiss (noise).  Depending on which tape you use (high quality or cheap quality) and what equipment you are using (radio shack tape deck or Yamaha digital tape deck)  you will have more or less noise when recording that violinist at the same recording level.

This also holds true for image sensors.  When the brightness is low such as in a shadow or low light situation the photon levels are so low that they are mixed with noise.  Depending on the sensor and supporting backend electronics there may be more or less noise.  Amplification, same as with that tape deck, amplifies not only the photons but also the noise level.  Higher quality components (better sensor, larger pixels, better amplifiers) can all contribute to less noise compared to the signal and more DR in the shadows.

You absolutely cannot compare sensor IQ without also considering the supporting electronics used in processing the signal.  Even if the cameras use the exact same sensor, different electronics on the back end will affect the IQ.  There are a lot of different points to consider.  What causes IQ differences in 5D3 and 1DX may be different in other models depending on the generation of support electronics also used.

Remember also that the image as it hits the sensor is still analog.  It's not converted to digital until after any amplification has already occurred.

Failure of the amplifier to pull photons from the background noise.

Please explain what you mean by this statement.

Not even close to explaining your statement which was (and I'll add some emphasis)... "FAILURE of the amplifier to PULL photons from the background noise".  All you've done is tell us with your analogy that for low signal levels the SNR would be high.  Please enlighten us how even the best amplifier in the world, even a hypothetically perfect amplifier, will "PULL photons from the background noise".

35
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX and 5D3 RAW files
« on: May 21, 2013, 10:41:00 AM »
Failure of the amplifier to pull photons from the background noise.

Please explain what you mean by this statement.

36
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX and 5D3 RAW files
« on: May 21, 2013, 09:47:51 AM »
No it's not false and it precisely answers your question.  High pixel density captures less photons per pixel.

Don't patronize people who have far more experience than you.  I have been a pro photographer for over 30 years.  10 of them I worked on image intensification systems 1st through 3rd generation.  The issue IS in fact the amplification of the signal when there are far few photons to discern the signal from the noise.  It's quite obvious that your little brain cannot grasp the concept of photons across a surface area.  I suppose you have as many brain cells as fit in a singe pixel.  To me you are just noise.

I  am quite done with this.


You can get help for your anger issues.  There are experienced therapists waiting.  Some even have over 30 years of experience.

37
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 13, 2013, 12:33:29 PM »
The onus used to be on Adobe to keep coming up with new and compelling features...

Very true... and it could very well be that compelling advancements are going to get fewer and further apart, that happens with most technology.  In the early years there are a lot of new developments but after a while the easy and obvious stuff is done and it gets harder and harder to come up with the next great feature.

Unless there is some feature of PS CC that is really needed or wanted, then anyone who currently owns PS should probably upgrade to CS6 and wait to see how things go with CC and if new features get added continually over time as Adobe is suggesting.  Not much harm in doing that, it's a cautious approach.

38
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 13, 2013, 11:16:59 AM »
@unfocused you're absolutely correct, it is a marketing tactic... to build a base as you said but also simple "segmented marketing" in which you charge a lower price to certain groups (students, seniors, etc.) who are less likely to buy at full price.  But it only works if there is a clear and enforceable differentiating factor among those groups.  Age works well because it's unambiguous but it's only enforceable for certain things like movie tickets... it doesn't work well for software.    "Personal" vs. "Business" actually doesn't work well because it's not always clear so what usually is done is to omit business features form a home version.   "Student" works well for software because you can require a valid registration at at an accredited school but you still need to put some protection which can be leaving out certain functions or not being able to upgrade.

Software is almost never transferable.  It is only valid for the person who licenses it (not necessarily who pays) and you can not transfer to another person or company if you decide you don't need it.  You can buy used software but it's technically not allowed... it's just very difficult to enforce.   

It should be pretty plain that it is not allowed to have a student buy you a discounted version if you are not a student.  The argument that "your wife" is a student might seem valid because you might think of it is a "family purchase" but it's not.   Anyone can use the software that's installed on one machine but should the "family" pay for the license according to the lowest priced user or the highest.  I didn't go read the Adobe license agreement to confirm so if someone knows better please speak up but I think the answer is the "highest".

39
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 13, 2013, 10:16:50 AM »
Hmm... in 2008 I bought CS4 Design Premium for around $400 (as a student).  I still use it five years on.

With the new CC subscription, the cost of ownership by now would have been around $1800.  If I had remained a student from 2008 until now it would have cost me $720 (they offer 60% discount for students).  But I was only a student for one year (mid-life crisis), meaning the price from then until now would have been $1584.

I know which model I prefer.

As a side note: to those that had CS4, but now use CS6, are there many improvements between the two versions?  If there's enough incentive, I'll just buy a student copy of CS6 DP while I still can (my wife's now the student)... it's still $400...

Having your wife buy PS at the student price for you, who is not a student, is essentially pirating the software.  If you're willing to pirate the software part way, why not just go all the way and download it from the net for free.

Geez Man,

How long have you been working for Adobe....?

C

I don't and per my other response just posted my point is meant to be illustrative...  a person is either playing by the rules or they aren't... if you're willing and comfortable going around the rules to save some money then just download it for free.  People tend to legitimize and justify their behavior as long as it's "not too bad" or "I had no choice" or "it's not my fault" etc.  But that's BS.

Edit:  just another though on this topic... it's rather interesting to discuss copyright issues in relation to photography... I've often wondered if Adobe (for example) suffers less piracy than other software companies because photographers in general are going to be more sensitive to copyright due to self interest... we all depend on copyright to protect our work so perhaps it's less likely that photographers would pirate photo software?

40
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 13, 2013, 10:13:02 AM »
Hmm... in 2008 I bought CS4 Design Premium for around $400 (as a student).  I still use it five years on.

With the new CC subscription, the cost of ownership by now would have been around $1800.  If I had remained a student from 2008 until now it would have cost me $720 (they offer 60% discount for students).  But I was only a student for one year (mid-life crisis), meaning the price from then until now would have been $1584.

I know which model I prefer.

As a side note: to those that had CS4, but now use CS6, are there many improvements between the two versions?  If there's enough incentive, I'll just buy a student copy of CS6 DP while I still can (my wife's now the student)... it's still $400...

Having your wife buy PS at the student price for you, who is not a student, is essentially pirating the software.  If you're willing to pirate the software part way, why not just go all the way and download it from the net for free.


Oh, FFS…

How should I take your comment... "Oh, FFS" you didn't realize that... or "Oh, FFS"... I'm being too technical...

My point is meant to be illustrative... people are whining on and on about the new CC model and the higher costs and in some cases are claiming Adobe will lose customers and because they don't like it here's how they're going to get around it.  Frankly, I don't care and don't judge anyone who buys a student version when they are not a student or outright pirates it.... but don't take some solice in the fact that you're only somewhat violating the license terms.  If you know you're not a student but go out of your way to get a student copy just to save some money and not pay Adobe's price... then you're halfway pirating it... so go all the way and download it for free.  It's quite easy.

41
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 13, 2013, 10:06:30 AM »
Hmm... in 2008 I bought CS4 Design Premium for around $400 (as a student).  I still use it five years on.

With the new CC subscription, the cost of ownership by now would have been around $1800.  If I had remained a student from 2008 until now it would have cost me $720 (they offer 60% discount for students).  But I was only a student for one year (mid-life crisis), meaning the price from then until now would have been $1584.

I know which model I prefer.

As a side note: to those that had CS4, but now use CS6, are there many improvements between the two versions?  If there's enough incentive, I'll just buy a student copy of CS6 DP while I still can (my wife's now the student)... it's still $400...

Having your wife buy PS at the student price for you, who is not a student, is essentially pirating the software.  If you're willing to pirate the software part way, why not just go all the way and download it from the net for free.
Honestly?  So you're saying that if you came to my house and logged onto my computer and used my student copy of CS4, which I purchased LEGITIMATELY, you are pirating the software?  My wife and I live in the same house and share the same computer... I have the license for Windows 7 and Office on my computer, but my wife also uses that software - is she pirating from Microsoft now?  I think you've got it really quite wrong.

I don't have it wrong at all... using someone elses software on their computer that they legitimately purchased is typically allowed under licencing agreements.  But having someone else, regardless of whether it is a family member, buy a student version intended for your use, when you are not a student, is not allowed.

In this case, your wife may have purchased the student version legitimately you YOU didn't.  You are not a student and are not using the software in the capacity of a student.


42
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 13, 2013, 08:48:30 AM »
Hmm... in 2008 I bought CS4 Design Premium for around $400 (as a student).  I still use it five years on.

With the new CC subscription, the cost of ownership by now would have been around $1800.  If I had remained a student from 2008 until now it would have cost me $720 (they offer 60% discount for students).  But I was only a student for one year (mid-life crisis), meaning the price from then until now would have been $1584.

I know which model I prefer.

As a side note: to those that had CS4, but now use CS6, are there many improvements between the two versions?  If there's enough incentive, I'll just buy a student copy of CS6 DP while I still can (my wife's now the student)... it's still $400...

Having your wife buy PS at the student price for you, who is not a student, is essentially pirating the software.  If you're willing to pirate the software part way, why not just go all the way and download it from the net for free. 

43
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 13, 2013, 08:45:00 AM »
I'm not really sure why this matters though. Can't people just use CS6? I bet that most people could do their photoshopping using the old & now free CS2.

If Adobe is not willing to bring offline software like Photoshop CS6 Extended on the market and enables the download for the new camera raw updates then I change to another product.

Why? Why not just use CS6? Is there something superior offered by another company?

Yes, they can keep using CS6 for years to come.  No, there is nothing superior offered by another company.  Despite some people's claims about how Adobe has bungled every release and will be out of business soon, PS is the undisputed champ of photo editing software.

44
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 11, 2013, 05:27:31 PM »
...So far I see subscription as more affordable way to get an expensive software even if it means paying more in the long term.

Except that with the "Creative Cloud" system it is not a more affordable way to get expensive software. The "affordable" model Adobe instituted and followed for at least two decades was the "upgrade" path. Make your initial investment in the software and then, over time, you can receive discounted upgrades and expansions, until ultimately, you have a full suite of software available to you at a substantial savings.

You could not possibly have missed Ladislav's point any more, which was it's a more affordable way to get into the software since there is no one time outlay for the first purchase... the monthly payment plan spreads out your total cost in even predictable amounts at regular intervals which is more manageable even though the total cost over a longer period of time is higher.  Like leasing a car.

I haven't read every single post on this topic, but has anyone considered the tax benefit of the subscription model.  If you make any money at all from photography, I presume you write off expenses.  The monthly payments would be fully deductible each year.

The other thing I've noticed is many people are comparing the sum of monthly payments compared to upgrading at $199 every 24 months.  First of all, the upgrade cycle was not always 24 months it was closer to 18-20 month on average I believe.  Second, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it only the CS6 upgrade that was $199 and previous upgrade prices were around $300?  Regardless of that, there is no certainty that if Adobe continued to sell boxed upgrades that it would have been $199 in the future, eventually the price would go up.  So it's hard to say what the long term cost of maintaining a current version of PS would cost over the next 10 years.

45
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« on: May 11, 2013, 02:57:03 AM »
Not really the same thing.  If a website goes down, you've lost access to articles.  Yes, I'd expect them to extend your subscription if it is down for very long, but frankly, even if the site went away, the only thing you've actually lost is the last month's subscription fee, or the last year's fee if you were subscribing on an annual basis.  It's peanuts.

Of course it's the same thing... you're just arbitrarily choosing to place higher importance on one than the other as a differentiating factor.  This whole argument about needing to go back and access working PSD files long into the future is also very arbitrary.  Well, what if I've been paying for my diglloyd, been using some techniques to get some shots, then in the future I want to go back and use the technique again but need to refresh my memory but the web site is shut down or I let my subscription lapse.  Same thing more or less.

Anyway, my point is only that you have a guy who is complaining about Adobe's new model when he uses a very similar (essentially the same) model for selling information... the traditional way people bought information was in a book that they now "owned" and regardless if the publisher went out of business or stop publishing the book the purchaser still had their book and the information in it.  Is that not the argument that's being used against Adobe's CC model.  Meanwhile, the guy complaining in his article has abandoned the traditional model of selling information in favor of a subscription model.

And like many before you in these threads, you're bringing up the "what if Adobe goes out of business"...  yes it could happen but it's not likely and wouldn't be without warning since as a public company there would be many news announcements and we'd be able to see their earnings fall quarter after quarter.  So please enough of the doomsday scenarios. 

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