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Messages - Meh

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46
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« on: May 11, 2013, 12:19:33 AM »
It just occurred to me... just like so many have complained about "renting" vs. "owning" software, the diglloyd article also complains about making an investment into software that is only rented and what if Adobe decides down the road to shut down CC... sucks to just rent software, pay month after month, year after year, and then poof no more access.  Well... does anyone here subscribe to diglloyd... he charges fees but his website does not allow any downloads as pdf etc. and you have to be connected to the web to read his articles.  Well what happens after months and years of subscribing he shuts it down and I can't access the information I paid for... well, guess I was just renting it and too bad for me right.  What if his site goes down for a week, does he reimburse all his subscribers for the lost time they paid for... I should hope so if he's going to complain about Adobe for having the same effin rental model he himself uses!

Here's a link to his page with details of his information rental business...

http://diglloyd.com/catalog.html

And a quote...  "Yes, this publishing model is unusual. However, it has worked well for thousands of subscribers for eight years and is well-suited to the ongoing additions"

So... his unusual model works well for some users and works well for ongoing additions.  Hmmmm.... just like Creative Cloud.


47
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« on: May 10, 2013, 11:52:08 PM »
Since it showed up in so many blog posts, news feeds, etc. I finally took a read at the article posted by diglloyd.  Regarding his first item "Stealing your name or trademark" his interpretation of the language in the Terms of Use is way off base.   In no way does it say Adobe has the right to give a registered trademark of yours to someone else or use it for their own purposes.  That would be illegal and Adobe's contract can not supercede the law.

It only says that you may be required to create a unique url which you can imagine would be for your personal web page at Adobe.com to display something.  Let's say I come along and create my unique url and choose "TheRollingStones.adobe.com" or as someone else posted "DisneyStudios.adobe.com".  Adobe needs a clause in their EULA to give them the right to disallow you to use that and subsequently allow the rightful owner of the trademarked name to use it.

Or maybe someone creates their url with profanity in it, or references to illegal images, or hate language, or "AdobeSucks.adobe.com".   They wouldn't want any of those for obvious reasons and need the right to terminate your use of it.

If diglloyd comes along and properly used diglloyd.adobe.com they would not disallow him that as they would have no reason.  But if I come along and register diglloyd.adobe.com he might be thankful they have that clause in there so he can stop my use of it.

It may seem one-sided in Adobe's favor but in reality it just gives them the authority to do the right thing in the case of abuses or improper use by users.

As for the other complaints in the article they too are stretches but not quite so off base.   The issue with the service being down is a legitimate concern except that you are not working in the cloud.  You would only have a problem if their system was down and you needed to download an application that wasn't already installed on your machine.  But that is unlikely and ultimately they have to protect themselves because it's not inconceivable they will have an outage and without that clause (which is a form of an indemnity clause and those are in just about every licence agreement) they'd have thousands of frivolous lawsuits on their hands which would cost millions just defending them.

The entire article is an over reaction just has been most of the ranting and raving about CC.  The complaint that it's more expensive is valid but it's not that much more expensive.  The overall cost difference is on the order of $100-200 dollars per year for people who use just PS and upgrade every other release or less.  Some of the reactions make it sound like this is going to cost thousands of dollars per year and make PS inaccessible to photographers.

The overreactions come down to the simple fact that some people just don't like change and get all baked at the mere thought that they are losing control and bad things might happen no matter how unlikely they may be.  OMG, Adobe might steal my trademark and I just can't risk the possibility of that... seriously man, how do you leave the house... do you know what the likliehood of dying in a car crash is every time you drive?  Much much higher than Adobe stealing your trademark!

48
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 10, 2013, 10:16:27 AM »
I just love the thread, in this thread, in which people are whining that this is huge increase in cost because they are happily still using CS3, 4, whatever and since they don't upgrade often Adobe is evil by forcing them to upgrade to the CC versions.   Clearly you should just keep using what you're using and/or upgrade to CS6 whenever you need or want to because Adobe has clearly stated they will keep selling CS6 indefinitely.

The entire BS about having no options in the future is complete and utter nonsense.  You can buy PS Elements and open and edit your PSD files.  I've never used Elements but the general view I've read is that it does most of what PS does and if that's true then perhaps the current version already does much more than previous versions of PS... if money is the issue because you can't afford it, because your'e retired, or you don't need all the fancy new features of every PS release, etc. etc. etc. then wouldn't PS Elements be your logical next upgrade anyway?

49
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 10, 2013, 10:05:31 AM »
Some people just don't want to see it.  But yes... for MOST people it is a doubling of price and ultimately that cost has to be absorbed or passed on to the consumer

MOST people?  What are you basing that on... the handful of people who just can't stop whining in this thread?  Or because you don't like and want to think you are typical, normal, average, and that your views are correct you want to believe MOST people must see it your way?  Perhaps it is YOU that just doesn't want to see that it isn't nearly as bad as you are making it out to be.

50
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 07, 2013, 02:57:32 PM »
And no, you won't have any warning they are going away, unless you are an insider.  They DO go poof in the middle of the night.

Outside of the financial industry, it is very rare that a major corporation suddenly and without warning shuts it doors and leaves all customers out in the cold.

Hah! Do you know how many game companies and other software companies have gone under??
When it comes to that most are too bedraggled and desperate to even care about trying to toss out patches to remove protection (or still hoping that someone will buy them or certain items out inthe future and too afraid of losing out on that chance).

Same for music. Music Giants went under. Anyone who wasn't lucky enough to have updated the license on all their songs before they went under got stuck with tens, hundreds of useless music files (and even those files will go away unless you losslessly burn them and then losslessly re-capture them from disc before your current computer changes too much and the rights go away again). RIAA never bothered to help anyone get what they had bought back either, they were just like cool haha now they all have to buy stuff a second time.

I know of many.  But my point is not many "major corporations" suddenly and without warning shut their doors with no opportunity for customers to take appropriate action.  The comment I was responding to suggested that if Adobe ever went bankrupt users would suddenly lose their image files and have to tell customers that their photos were lost.  Not going to happen.  If Adobe went bankrupt the world would have plenty of notice... they are a public company that reports quarterly, we would see their revenue and profit falling and that would be due to poor sales due to loss of customers likely due to poor products that less and less people want to use, etc. etc.

51
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 07, 2013, 02:52:04 PM »

Onward and upward dudes!  To the cloud!

Yeah how much did you get paid to parrot that silly slogan hah.
Such a silly name too, makes something very old in the world of computing sound new and fresh and exciting (OK maybe not a silly name, but a sneaky one).

LOL nothing, I just happen to think

a) This type of thing is inevitable and if done right (eventually) can be beneficial to everyone including customers.  If Adobe products are no longer superior and pricing is too high then competition will appear and catch up.

b) The $20 per month for PS and $50 for everything is not as bad a deal as everyone is making it out to be.  Yes, it's more money and for those that do not upgrade every release it's quite  abit more.  But there's added value in the new model for some users especially those with a desktop and laptop as they get to install to two machines.

Calling it Creative Cloud is a bit of spin since they are not really cloud applications but there is a cloud component.  And besides, if they really were cloud apps that would be bad.

52
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 06, 2013, 11:25:56 PM »
Rent-Only software sucks!

Yes, renting sucks...except that it doesn't, for the landlord.  When it comes right down to it, that's why this is happening.

And like it or not, software subscription models are an inevitable outcome of the digital age because the systems are now available to make it work and it's a tool against piracy.  All we can hope for, which is no different than at any time, is that healthy competition keeps things in check.  If, as people are screaming, Adobe's pricing is crazy, insane, unreasonable, etc. then we should see some competition eventually.  Bring it on and let's see how good our tools can get.

53
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 06, 2013, 11:18:05 PM »
And no, you won't have any warning they are going away, unless you are an insider.  They DO go poof in the middle of the night.

Outside of the financial industry, it is very rare that a major corporation suddenly and without warning shuts it doors and leaves all customers out in the cold.

Meaning that if you take your photography business seriously, you have to freeze your baseline right here, and can no longer rely on their products beyond where we are at.  So there will be no updates, no new RAW converters.  That is the fast track to the grave for Adobe.  Self fulfilling prophecy.

Although I imagine that most of the younger folks will be seduced by the latest and greatest.  Until they get burned, that is.  But then, I was in the personal computer industry back when the 8080 was the latest and greatest, and Bill Gates was still in knickers.  So I've already been burned, and won't trust any of these companies.

The Cloud - a mainframe (even if it is made up of distributed elements) by any other name is still something outside your control.  Do you really want to go back there?  What's next - punch cards?

Again, the falling sky will get us all.  Good grief.

54
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 06, 2013, 10:44:20 PM »
A couple of thoughts.

1. With the subscription only model, what incentive does that give Adobe to innovate and come up with NEW features and bug fixes? I mean, the main reason people updated was new features. If they have you the short and curlies renting the software, what incentive do they have then to come out with regular and meaningful updates on a regular basis?

That's reasonable concern.  The answer is competition.  If Adobe falls behind in features, performance, etc. competitors will rise up.

55
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 06, 2013, 10:40:41 PM »
People please!  You never owned software, what you always bought was a license with only a time limited assurance of support, bug fixes, etc.  Then you upgrade to the next version at semi-regular intervals and so it goes on for eternity.

No, I bought that software and I expect it to function as purchased FOREVER - on my stand-alone machine that has no connectivity to the outside world.

Support, bug fixes, etc. are options I can chose to forgo, or pay for, my choice.

The real problem is that when Adobe goes bankrupt in 5 years and the license servers go off line, every one of their subscribers is SOL.  It's happened before, it will happen again.

Which is why the cloud subscription model is a loser for anyone who cares about what they are using/doing/counting on.  A business person (eg: professional photographer) who uses Adobe is rolling the dice with their livelihood.  Bad move.  You're not a secured creditor, they owe you nothing when they fail, and your customers are not going to be amused when you tell them that all those photos you were going to have for them aren't going to show up.

Onward and upward?  More like downward to the netherworld.

Oh bollocks!

The software that you currently own WILL work forever on your machine.  No one is forcing you to upgrade to CC.

You want choice... that was part of my original point, people are resistant to change, don't like new models, demand choice, demand control over everything.

Adobe goes bankrupt?  It could, but you images are not lost, your RAW files are not lost.  You have to back them all up just like you do now.  No difference there.  Ok, so you Adobe software stops working after a while but even under the current perpetual license versions you'd eventually (and within a relatively short time) have to move to another product to stay current with features etc.   And besides, when companies fail they don't go poof in the middle of the night... you'd have some warning... you're not going to suddenly have to tell your customers their photos have been lost forever in a black hole.

Boy oh boy, THE SKY IS FALLING!

56
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 06, 2013, 10:31:37 PM »

Onward and upward dudes!  To the cloud!
Yes. But not at $50 a month! That is a ripoff. Plus it should be configurable. Just like now to pick and choose what one wants.

Under the new subscription model you can pick and choose what you want.  Currently it's $20 per month for individual apps and if you need 3 or more apps you can just pay $49 and get everything else for FREE if you want to use them.  You just have to compare what you are paying now, for upgrades, over time and compare to paying the monthly fee.

There are reports today that Adobe said it was going to reduce the single application price down to $10 per month when CC is released.  If so, if you use 4 or less apps you go for the singles, and once you hit 5 you pay the package price and get everything.

57
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 06, 2013, 10:27:50 PM »
I GUARANTEE you, that as they add features or "upgrades" you can expect $75 - $100/ month for Creative Cloud.

Guarantee? That's pretty bold.  But ok, it is reasonable to expect that prices go up over time but if that's your assumption then the cost of one-time version upgrades would also go up.  At the end of the day the financial comparison is what you're paying now versus what you'll be under the new model.

If you're a PS only user your upgrade cost every two years was $300 (do I have that right or was it $200?) so your average monthly cost was $12.50 (more if an upgrade came out after 18 months).  Now you're paying $20 per month for PS... which is more and not insignificant but you're getting constant upgrades with new features instead of Adobe having to hold them back for a full new release, some cloud storage, and the right to install on two computers.  So there is extra value.  Whether those extras are worth an extra $7.50 per month to any particular user is hard to say.

EDIT... and there are reports they are planning to reduce the single app price to $10 per month.

58
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 06, 2013, 09:09:46 PM »
Well, the usual human resistance to change is in full force today... photographers all throughout the Interwebs are losing their collective cool over this.  The sky is falling the sky is falling.

People please!  You never owned software, what you always bought was a license with only a time limited assurance of support, bug fixes, etc.  Then you upgrade to the next version at semi-regular intervals and so it goes on for eternity.

I get people's uncertainty and concern about costs.  For photographers who use nothing but PS and LR, the $49 per months is definitely higher than the 18-24 month upgrades.  If you didn't upgrade every release then sure, it's a fair bit more.  But you're getting more... new features, some cloud storage, access to other Adobe apps that maybe you'd like to use occasionally, and you get to install on two computers.  Not everyone has a desktop and a laptop so that's not a benefit to everyone but I think it may be for many/most photographers?

For people still using CS4 who are complaining, don't worry and keep using CS4.  Seriously, if you haven't upgraded yet you weren't going to anytime soon.  And, they clearly said they're going to keep selling CS6 as a stand-alone for the foreseeable future so you'll still be ok.

Many news reports state that Adobe claims they're going to reduce the price of single aps to $10/month but I can't find it only any official source.  If true, that's cheaper than upgrading PS once ever two years.

I dont' know guys and gals.  Doesn't seem so bad to me but I'm one who's long accepted that I don't really own anything anyway and have no issue that songs I buy digitally can't be left to my kids when I die.  Poor Bruce Willis and his extensive music collection will just have to suck it up.

If, as some are proclaiming, this is a big mistake for Adobe and it opens the competitive door to other photo applications then Adobe will tweak their pricing a bit.  Time will tell.  And life will go on.

Eventually, there will be features that even you die hard CS4 users are going to want and you'll be paying that monthly like a trained monkey... you pay your cable and phone bill every month right?  What bigger rip is there than that?  $12/day for 3 grande lattes?  $2/bottle for "natural spring water"?

Onward and upward dudes!  To the cloud!

59
Portrait / Re: Pretty bad...
« on: April 22, 2013, 10:34:24 AM »
Like others, I am scratching my head as to how they ever even saw these pictures. It only reinforces my resolve to never let my subjects see the original shots. I mostly shoot for family and friends, but even in those cases, I'm not letting them see everything I shoot.

To me, that's like going to buy a car, getting a truckload of parts delivered and being told to assemble it myself. It's only half the product. I know some photographers give their clients everything and I know that when they are waiving money in front of you, it's hard not to comply. But, I don't want my bad shots being posted for the whole world to see.

I think you've hit the nail on the head... money talks and it's not always easy, especially for a struggling photog, to turn down money over the risk that a not-so-good shot gets shown around as an example of your bad work.  Even if it's not the money, it might seem easier to give into the pressure of a client demanding ALL the photos on the basis that "the photos are of them and therefore it's their right to have them and decide for themselves if the photos are good or not".

60
Portrait / Re: Pretty bad...
« on: April 22, 2013, 09:53:57 AM »
What I wanna know is why did the photographer send them all his shots? Did he not even look at them at all? That in it self is proof he's no pro. Idiot. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Perhaps the contract said ALL shots.... It could be that the photographer took 2000 shots, a dozen or so are bad... it could be a 99 percent hit rate... it could be .1 percent hit rate, we don't know.

Or they couple may have gotten into some argument or debate with the photographer and eventually she gave up, sighed deeply, shouted "oh bollocks", and just handed over ALL the shots and told the lovely couple to piss off.  Then, being the miserable type, the couple selected the worst shots and filed a lawsuit seeking the costs of a new reception just to get a free party with more cake.  People are like that.

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