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Messages - Maui5150

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EOS Bodies / Re: IS vs IQ
« on: February 14, 2012, 09:48:57 AM »
Ever notice something about all of the IS lenses the OP listed?  Like they are all long and generally also F/4 or more

IS helps a lot more at longer focal lengths and slower shutter speeds than it does at shorter focal lengths and slower shutter speeds.  Makes sense.

One of the reasons I think you don't see the 24-70 with IS is the short range of the lens, as well since it is capable at F/2.8 and looks like it does not have to be stopped down to be affective, it helps address the shutter speed part of the equation. 

As well.  The fractional shake from a hand movement in terms of sharpness at an object 10 feet away is not nearly the difference of say an object 100 feet away.

I am not sure I would agree that IS necessarily affects IQ, but I can see how IS can be like an Anti-Alias filter and when IS is activated, since the lens has to compensate, it may introduce some slight movement or perhaps even OVERCOMPENSATION which could reduce the sharpness of the lens. 

For longer lenses, this over compensation may be mitigated by the correction it enables, i.e. the fractional correction off is much better than the original shake, but in a shorter lens, perhaps in some cases this compensation or over shooting may be equal or greater than the initial shake. 

EOS Bodies / Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« on: February 14, 2012, 08:17:53 AM »
I think Canon is consolidating their lines slightly which makes sense.

When you look at the previous landscape of the lines (with latest MK #s eliminated)


There is just a huge overlap, especially in the Crop body.  Yes, the 7D was the king of the APS-C, but the total gap between 7D - 60D - and T3i in terms of features, performance, etc was not that great and a $1000 difference... A lot of it came down to the quality of the body as the biggest differences, along with AF and FPS

So what I see

1Dx (and possibly a 1DsX) as the Pro body line.  $6500 Body

5DMKIII  - The Mid Level Pro - Solid all around, $3000 Body - Really becomes a economic win, really a merging of the 5DMKII and 7D lines, so instead of paying $4200 for a 7D and 5D MKII, you save $800 - $1000 and have it all in one body.  Yes, you lose the crop reach, but this will be a SOLID all around camera

2D/3D/4D - This will be the high MP beast.  It is coming, and my guess is Canon is tweaking the hell out of it... In the corporate minds, better to be a few months slower and have a better body for several years, than rush and be mediocre.

70D - Seriously Upgraded line.  Top of the Crop Prosumer Body.  Better construction.  Weather Sealing, this becomes the $1500 - $1700 crop body, probably 18MP still, maybe up to 21MP, Faster FPS, and likely the same AF. 

Rebel T4i - Top Consumer Body.  Same overall sensor as the 70D, great video, less bells and whistles, plastic body, slower FPS, less ISO and likely not as good AF.

The nature of the shift is really 6 lines into 4 lines, or 5 lines into 4 depending on how you look at the 1Ds/1DMK line. 

This is not a bad thing.  I think what this means is an upgrade to the xxD line, and by focusing these bodies a little more, it takes some of the confusion away especially with the T3i / 60D / 7D which are 3 fairly close bodies within $800 - $900 of each other, which then becomes 2 Bodies with in the same range. 

One less body line allows Canon to focus on better improvements for their next generation as well as improve their lenses with more resources. 

Lenses / Re: Is it worth waiting for an upgrade to 24-105?
« on: February 13, 2012, 07:06:45 PM »
Not sure how soon this lens will get updated.  Not a perfect lens, but I think Canon is focusing on ranges, and with the 24-70 and the 70 - 200 they have a nice range, as well as the rumored 200 - 400 coming out as well...

So to me the 24 - 105 seems like an overlap lens.  Don't get me wrong, I use this lens a lot, but I don't see it being addressed anytime soon. 

EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]
« on: February 13, 2012, 02:55:00 PM »
You must be on a Mac.  Only costs me about $200 - $400 every couple of years to more than double the speed of my PC and all depends if I have to upgrade my motherboard as well as the CPU. 

I can build an 8-Core 3.3 Mhz, 16 GB RAM, system with decent Graphics Card, case and Power Supply for under $800.

Now if you are throwing on a 30" monitor that handles 1 Billion colors, then I can see an extra $1200 to $2K, but outside of that, most people in the "PC world" can do seriously major upgrades for under $500

Most people in the "Mac World" can do significant upgrades for that much too.

Though I question if you can actually build a 'decent' system with those specs at those prices unless you use really cheap (low MTBF) parts.

Go with any number of AMD chips.  With a little work you can find some of the 8-Core series for well under $300.  The 8150 I have coming in I paid under $250 for.  Oh... Forgot to mention.

Motherboard, I was a little on the cheaper side and went Asus M5A88-V-EVO, still has nice number of SATA connections, decent audio, and tolerable video if you want to cut corners.  My cost was around $105 on a Microcenter sale

I will round out both and make it sit at $400 for MB/CPU.  You do enough hunting and timing (easily can be $350)

I prefer decent amount of Power.  Most people make the mistake on going cheap on Power Supplies.  I can pick up a Rosewill 630 Continuous Watt from New Egg for $60 (normally $90).  My ThermalTake was closer to $100 and is 750 Watts.

So we are up to $500.

Memory, 16GB - I have not been happy with Corsair, and have been going with the G.Skill Ripjaws series, and 16GB can be had for $100 - $110.

Throw in a Video card, like anything from the Radeon 6750 series, and you be easily in the $80 - $90 range (Mine with Rebate was $70 from MicroCenter)

If you re-user your old case and have a decent power supply that does not need things like power for rails on the Video, you can subtract $100 in fact.  Same for now need for case.

So with Case and Power Supply (Basically everything new but HD) it is around $800

Without Case and Power Supply you are looking at $600

Use built in Video or reuse your video, especially if you have a beast like the Quadro, and that is then $100 cheaper of $500.

Already have memory?  Might be slower than the latest and greatest, but down to $400. 

Many of the Intel will be faster than the AMD, but for bench mark to price, AMD generally is much more competitive. 

And if you do it right, you can make a lot of great improvements with little effort. 

When I rebuilt my system last year, I wound up going with the AMD X2 1075 because I got it for around $110, and it was more than half of what the 1100T was.   Actually I mispoke.  AMD was doing a bundle deal, and I got $50 off the combo of ASUS MB and AMD CPU, so I paid about $160 (or the cost of the MB not on sale and the processor for free)

And for being patient and watching, Got the 8150 for $250 with shipping, and am selling my 1075 for around $175, so in the end, my MB / Eight Core Combo will cost me under $250 (and Passmark comparison stepping up from around 5500 to 8200) 

Lots of systems are faster, but I probably average $200 a year on hardware outside of HDs and my PC stays towards the upper end of the curve. 

EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]
« on: February 13, 2012, 01:02:07 PM »
I agree with Maui5150. Updateing a PC is relatively inexpensive. I did splurge this year and add an Nvidia 2000D Quadro card to my 3 year old I-920, 12 GB system. This system now batch processes 1DS3 CR2 files in under 2 seconds each. My MBP is now relagated to travel email and skype and my Driod is rapidly replaceing that.

DXO and PS really like using the CPL capability of the Quadro card, probably the best money I've spent on speedup in a long time.
I'm really looking forward to the Canon 45 MP if it materalizes. If not I'm off to the Nikon D800E.

Well the Quadro is definitely a powerhouse of a card.   I am getting excited for the new PS.  I don't have issues with Liquidfy layers as it is, but seeing some of the performance gains they have made, it looks much improved. 

Main reasons I have built my own PCs for close to the last 15 years:
-- Fairly easy to do
-- Pick and chose best equipment
-- Easier upgrading. 
-- Improved access to technology. 

Sort of like why I like MacGururs for external enclosures : They are designed to be upgradeable, so as USB 4.0 or what ever else comes out, they give you the ability to change out the controller and other components and still use hardware, that for the most part does not need discarding. 

EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Mark III Book Shows Up at Amazon France
« on: February 13, 2012, 12:39:32 PM »
Given this book has been listed in the past, sounds like things are starting to move and the date is solidifying

EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]
« on: February 13, 2012, 08:54:29 AM »
A typical RAW from 18MP is about... 25MB. 45MP is about 2.5x that, so let's say we're looking at average raws of 65MB on a 45MP sensor. So you need 2.5x the storage, not really significant given that cards, hard disks, and CPUs are getting faster all the time. We're still looking in the ball park of 250 shots per 16GB CF card. 32GB are commonly available and more affordable than ever.

Put another way, if you're too cheap to handle 45MP files, you probably can't afford the body in the first place either so there's no problem!

As to two models of 5D, let's put aside the name and rephrase that: will Canon put out two sub 1D level full frame bodies. Easy answer - Why not? They can remove or add models as needed. Who saw the 7D coming before it came out?

It's not a matter of of too cheap to handle it - its more the matter of being able to handle it all the time, every shot, no option to scale it down without shooting to jpeg which means you loose a lot of options in post process.    As someone in their second year as a tog, I made very little money the first year, and close to 14k the second, i hope to double that this year and be able to afford full frame but - lets add it up - if 75 MB is the only option, to handle, manage and process that your looking at multiple upgrades

$3000 for body
$2000 + to upgrade computer
$400 on hardrives
$400 on CF cards

No thank you (while saying that ---if i could do that....lol.... I would!!!!).  So yeah, give me size options!

Oh, and lets also add to the mix glass.  Many are already stating that a 30+ MP body outclasses even the best glass on the market.  Canon has already put out their new beast of a 24-70 (given the specs and the price, I do believe that the only way you'll get the most out of that is on a 30+ MP body), so to really get the full benefit of all those MP's, time to buy new glass!

You must be on a Mac.  Only costs me about $200 - $400 every couple of years to more than double the speed of my PC and all depends if I have to upgrade my motherboard as well as the CPU. 

I can build an 8-Core 3.3 Mhz, 16 GB RAM, system with decent Graphics Card, case and Power Supply for under $800.

Now if you are throwing on a 30" monitor that handles 1 Billion colors, then I can see an extra $1200 to $2K, but outside of that, most people in the "PC world" can do seriously major upgrades for under $500

EOS Bodies / Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« on: February 11, 2012, 09:06:25 AM »
I remember a few months ago someone on this forum was criticizing the 7D as having noise in the sky in his landscape shots and was questioning the 7D's credibility and usability in landscape photography.  For the last day, I've heard a lot of people mentioning how much they want Canon to produce a large MP camera for (studio and landscape).  For the hell of it, I decided to check out the sample photos of the D800... The photos I saw, all the way from ISO 25K all the way down to ISO 100, all of them I could detect traces of noise the in the static areas of the scenes, whether it be the sky or shadow in the seashore scene, to the backdrop on the woman and wild cat shot, all the way down to the high ISO shots which compared to the 5d2 (i know, it's unfair to compare the two), Does this noise detract others from wanting to use this camera for landscapes, or was the posts a few months ago regarding the 7D nitpicking about nothing, or are you willing to forgive it because it is full frame and 36Mp rather than an 18MP crop camera?  Just getting people 2  cents

for the sake of argument let's say the noise is the same (which IMO isnt'. the D800 looks cleaner than the 7D). AT 36MP the noise is lost in the sheer resolution when you print compared to the 7D print. Try it. Resize a D800 file to 18MP. So I fully dissagree that the D800 is not suited for landscape even if noise levels are the same as the 7D because at a whoping 2X times the number of pixels, you get someting in return.

If you have to crop it down, that sort of defeats the purpose.  And noise is noise.  It may not be as apparent when cropped, but by the same time, the image will not have nearly the detail it should... i.e. a decent performing 36 MP shot with low noise versus a cropped down 18 MP shot.

Lenses / Re: Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L II
« on: February 11, 2012, 09:02:16 AM »
Sounds like from the initial impressions it is a solid lens.

-- Sharp at all focal lengths
-- faster focus than 70-200 II

That is pretty fast.  I will take faster focus over IS

Lenses / Re: Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L II
« on: February 10, 2012, 10:43:43 AM »
The more I look at those MTF charts, the more I'm amazed by them. My initial response was exactly WTF?!?!? But seriously, look at those charts. It's better all across the way, but at the edges the improvements are monstrous. I'm guessing this will outperform practically every prime that exists. If you're stopping down your 1.xx primes to over 2, you might just be way way better off with this lens.

the 24 f1.4 II
the 35 f1.4
the 50 f1.2

i dunno its hard to make comparisons from charts but it will be interesting to see the pics when they hit the street. Might make me reconsider it as an option if it really is that good. I was never impressed with the original so there was alot of room for improvement

What is the price of those 3 prime lenses?  $4500.  And yes they are all 1.4 or faster versus 2.8, but the majority of the MTF chart I see for this lens is much improved.  Are each of these primes superior in their respective range?  Likely, but if the images from this lens perform like the chart suggests, It looks to me like many people may pay a little more than they would like, but have a lens that COMES CLOSE to each of these primes, and has the advantage of not having to buy 3, swap 3 all the time and also maybe not need the 85, so closer to getting 4 solid primes in 1 zoom. 

May not have IS, but with this 24-70 F/2.8 II and the 70 - 200 F/2.8 IS II a lot of photographers could cover MOST of the range they need with TWO LENSES and you pretty much would have to spend 5X as much in primes to better them across the range. 

Time will tell, but I am definitely thinking that swapping out my 50 f/1.4, 85 F/1.8 and 24-105 F/4 and going with the 24-70 F/2.8 II and my 70-200 F/2.8 IS II not only is less to carry, but should even be better performing, and winds up being only about a $500 upgrade.

Granted, having speeds below F/2.8 is nice and can be a necessity, but what I see from Canon with these two lenses is a real solid covering of both range and performance

Lenses / Re: 36+ Mp EOS dSLR (rumored): How do existing EF lenses cope?
« on: February 09, 2012, 08:48:23 PM »
How many of us can play our favourite DOS game on a Windows 7 computer? (sorry, pre 1995 computer era for the children reading in  ;) )

I use Vogons to run a bunch of old-school games like Ultima VI on my MacBook Pro (albeit in a tiny window, though there are some interpolation techniques that help make it not look horrible in full-screen HD :-).  See also the remake of WC Privateer on top of the Vega Strike engine.

I still have a functioning 8088 based computer running dos 3.0 and has a 10mb hd

EOS Bodies / Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]
« on: February 09, 2012, 07:52:35 PM »
I doubt if these will be above $3k!!! With the D800 now out, I can see the 5DX being aroun $3200-3500, but I think the 5DMk III would be below that...probably around $2700. at least that's what I would do if I were a product manager at Canon.

And why is that.

Looks like the Canon 5D MKIII will have

Better AF
Much Better ISO (25600 native versus 6400)
Double FPS
Video on par or better perhaps.

The only thing the D800 offers is large MP, which a lot of people don't want.

So compared to the current 5D MK II which sells around $2300 retail...

Much higher ISO
Faster FPS
and not sure what other bells and whistles are in there, but AF, FPS and ISO are each big improvement areas.

Lenses / Re: Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L II
« on: February 09, 2012, 02:03:42 PM »
If it had IS on it then maybe that price would be fine, but the upgrade for what was a mediocre lens anyway that has a range is easily covered and exceeded in all ways by the 16-35 and the 50 f1.4 combo now both those better lenses combined are still cheaper. But who knows maybe it has completely mind blowing sharpness across the frame at f2.8 and no distortion, it will definately be interesting to see some samples and real revies of it once it hits the street

I may not be reading the MTF charts correctly then... Looks to me like the 24 - 70 II has better over all performance than the 16-35, which also does not have IS...  Pretty much when I look at the 24 - 70 II chart, it is getting close to the performance I expect from prime lenses.   So you could look at the 24 - 70 II as being close to having the 24, 28, 35, 50, and 75 prime all wrapped into one. (Yes, I know no 75, but it is close enough to the 85).  And looking at the 50 1.4, this lens wallops it. 

It is out of my price range, so no argument there, but when I look at the chart I see a zoom lens that really almost negates the need for prime lenses in its range, albeit for those who are looking for 1.2, 1.4, 1.8 and 2 F/stops.

Lenses / Re: Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L II
« on: February 09, 2012, 10:51:37 AM »

6 Zooms and 11 Primes. Not a small number. Secondly IS isn't just for shorter exposure times. It works fantastically to reduce up/down movements when taking panning shots at any focal length.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4 L IS USM
Canon EF 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6 L IS USM
Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0 L IS USM
Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II USM
Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 L IS USM
Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS USM

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 L IS USM Macro
Canon EF 200mm f/2.0 L IS USM
Canon EF 300mm f/4.0 L IS USM
Canon EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS II USM
Canon EF 400mm f/4.0 DO IS USM Lens
Canon EF 400mm f/2.8 L IS II USM
Canon EF 500mm f/4.0 L IS II USM
Canon EF 500mm f/4.0 L IS USM
Canon EF 600mm f/4.0 L IS II USM
Canon EF 600mm f/4.0 L IS USM
Canon EF 800mm f/5.6 L IS USM

How many of those lens have a FOCAL LENGTH BELOW 70?  2. 

How many of those lenses have a total FOCAL LENGTH Below 70?  0

In fact with the exception of the 24-105, the MAJORITY of the lenses have the MAJORITY of their focal length ABOVE 100.

100% of the lenses above have focal lengths that exceed 100mm, and 70mm for that fact.

In fact only 2 out of the 17 lenses you list have focal lengths under 200mm.  12 of the lenses have focal lengths of 300mm or greater.

So what conclusions can be drawn.  Looks like IS tends to be found on:

-- Longer lenses (200mm and above)
-- Slower lenses  (F/4 and above)

Not to say that IS has not crept into some lenses, but not one lens in the list of L lenses from Canon that has IS does not extend greater than 100mm by some degree, and the majority start at 200 or more.

Not one L lens currently has its entire focal length below 100mm for that matter, and in fact, it seems that 100mm seems to be the magic number for when Canon feels IS matters. 

Any surprise why the new 24-70 does not have IS?  looking at it is 2.8 and does not extend 100mm or greater, looks like it is normal for Canon to not introduce IS to the lens

EOS Bodies / Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« on: February 09, 2012, 08:57:27 AM »
Now that the cat is out of the bag, we keep hearing (well maybe more Graig then us!) more and more of the high MP camera some dream of being part of the 2012 line up.  I think it will come after the 5DX or 5DIII and am sure it will blow the D800 out of the water. My two cents.

Well my to cents concerning the rumor " I have heard there will be a very high megapixel camera some time in 2012, possibly in the 40mp range and it won’t be the “5D Mark III":

This is marketing crap to torpedo D800 sales, e.g. people switching systems from Nikon to Canon. *Developing* a high MP camera is not exactly the same as having it in the release pipeline like Nikon, is it? And the updated primes they just released are not high MP but for video - the segment in which Canon is in ahead.

If Canon would be even in the general vicinity of a Camera of the D800 type, they'd call it 5DIII. If this really is released w/ 22MP, we'll know there's no high MP variant on the horizon.

Really?  Are you sure?

For one, Canon has already developed a 100 MP Camera, and that was several years ago.

Huge MP cameras are nothing new, and I am sure BOTH Canon and Nikon have a dozen developmental models that are being R&D of which MOST never see the light and day, but of which features eventually wind up in production lines.

Both Canon and Nikon have product road maps, and these road maps extend out years and years. 

These road maps change over time.  They are periodically re-evaluated and are one of the most protected secrets a company has. 

It is also MUCH MUCH harder to change a product once it is in the release cycle.  It is still difficult to change pre-release, but is possible.  I suspect some of the delays on the Canon 1Dx are firmware updates to allow for their F/8 AF hole. 

The D800 / D800e are not pre-order and starting to enter the release cycle.  Pretty much not much new is going to happen to these cameras except bug fixes.

Canon, on the other hand has the time to tweak what ever they had in queue, whether it is improving their AF, adding in another feature, but I expect TWO cameras from Canon that will sit on either side of the D800 in terms of MP.  I expect a 2D or 3D series which will be a 39 MP FF Camera that matches or beats ever spec on the Nikon, and expect it to be slightly more expensive like the 1Dx is to the D4.  I also expect a moderate MP in the 24 MP range, or possibly 27MP for the 5D MK III which will be a merging of the 5D / 7D lines, so basically the 5D MK II with a little larger resolution, a lot better AF, improved color and ISO performance faster FPS, it will be cheaper than the D800 and the justification will be about IQ.  The 5D MKIII will be a better performer but smaller MP.  The 2D/3D will be a better performer, bigger MP.

If anything, both of these cameras become Nikon Killers because for the I NEED MORE MP crowd, they get it, and there are a lot of Nikon folks who are not crazy about 36 MP and giving them HIGH IQ, High Performance, and in a MP that is double their D700, it is much much more reasonable.

Why the delays...

I think Canon announces these in tandem.

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