September 30, 2014, 07:05:30 PM

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Messages - J.R.

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1
bracket the scene, let loose the tonemapping app of your choice and dial everything to 11!

My first entry is also my very first hdr shot, right after buying my shiny new 60d! Seemed like "instant art" to me back then :-p

Everyone has these art shots hidden in the hard drive somewhere. I'll check tomorrow and post the particularly ghastly ones.  ;D

2
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: iPhone 6 gets an Exmor
« on: September 29, 2014, 04:15:57 PM »
Er... Does it shoot RAW?

3
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Posting about sensors and DR!
« on: September 29, 2014, 04:09:07 PM »

For your shooting maybe not, and that's great for you if that is the case, but for other people's shooting it may and the difference demonstrated absolutely is entirely realistic as to how it works out in the real world.
If you shoot scenes in the real world that have enough DR then it does matter and it's a perfectly realistic demonstration and it has nothing to do with no exposing properly.

Absolutely. Everyone's wants, needs and required results from their equipment are different. While I am fine with the gear I have, people to whom DR is crucial, like yourself, can stop-gap with the A7.

4
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Posting about sensors and DR!
« on: September 29, 2014, 03:59:22 PM »
Not really. I'm not missing the point at all. I'm simply saying that the sample images usually posted on forums don't lead to a valid comparison. See OP's first post in this thread. The real world images prove that the difference is not as great as some would have me believe.

I don't see any images in the first post in this thread.

Oops ... That would mean here http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=22999.0;topicseen

5
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Posting about sensors and DR!
« on: September 29, 2014, 03:53:33 PM »
I know, it isn't about both sides or not. I KNOW both sides go at it. But it's an issue, DR is an issue with Canon cameras. It's THE issue with Canon cameras for many people. It's a topic of discussion. DIS-CUS-SION. We CAN be civil about this issue. It's a choice we have to make. It's a difficult choice to make, though, when the anti-DR crowd regularly insults the pro-DR crowd. It's usually the anti-DR crowd who throws the first insult, or gets mocking and derogatory, or what have you...that's where the discussion always takes a really bad turn. That's where it gets personal, dirty, mean...that's where it becomes a war rather than a discussion.


It's not really that simple. A great number of posters see this course of insults the other way round. You see what you want to see.

are you sure though? Do you see people saying that if you never shoot high DR scenes at low ISO and have no need for it that they are morons or incompetent at photography? If you see someone discussing framing and composition and capturing peak action or whatnot do you see people jump into those threads and call them morons because they are talking about the artistic side of things and say they must be a bunch of simple-minded fools not smart enough to discuss the only thing that matters, tech, and berate them for not concentrating on engineering discussions in photo critique threads? (you can, of course, focus more on the art on forums and be brilliant or talk a lot about tech and yet have a crazy extensive photo portfolio)

Just in the last two days alone there has been a lot of: LOL at these lens cap shooting dweebs, only dweebs like that who have never taken a real photo in their life care about silly shadows and dynamic range; only morons with no clue about how to take a photography or do post-processing have any need for Exmor-type sensors; just lazy people who can't bother to set an exposure care; why are you talking about engineering and tech [in a tech thread] you lab geeks, go outside and take a picture for the first time in your life, etc.

And it's been like for years and some people slowly got sick of it over time and perhaps started fighting back more (the ones who didn't just get fed up and quit posting).

Yeah going on about sensors or this or that maybe can be annoying, but the talk is limited to the equipment forums.

There have been enough mashed potatoes flying from everywhere on these boards. Nevertheless, I did say that both parties were at fault to which Jon replied that the "anti-DR" crowd was responsible, which made me make the comment that you quoted above. We can agree to disagree though.

6
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Posting about sensors and DR!
« on: September 29, 2014, 03:44:56 PM »
Let's just be civil, okay?

You expect much.

These DR arguments end up with both sides pissing in the wind.

With that attitude, these discussions will never be civil. I tried to start a thread dedicated to DR discussion, didn't push any kind of agenda, and the thread was still derailed...primarily by the anti-DR crowd. So long as no one tries to react differently to the DR discussion (which is not going to go away...it's the only real issue Canon cameras have, so OF COURSE people are going to bring the subject up), then nothing will ever BE different.

How can it be derailed by people posting examples of the latitude the Canon sensor is capable of ? Actually something has come out of these discussions; there has been less talk of greater DR and more talk of being able to pushing 0 data. That in itself is a step towards understanding what Exmor really offers over the current Canon sensors. You want to push 0 data then I think we are all in agreement that Canon is not your camera of choice.

Exactly. Every time a head to head comparison shot is made, the images are so hopelessly underexposed that it is bound to show Canon in poor light. Real world imaging narrows the differences considerably.

You are missing the point. People are talking about real world images that are not under exposed. If you have highlights that are bright and need to be saved then the rest of the image may get pushed very dark, but that is not underexposure. That is proper exposure.

Not really. I'm not missing the point at all. I'm simply saying that the sample images usually posted on forums don't lead to a valid comparison. See OP's first post in this thread. The real world images prove that the difference is not as great as some would have me believe.

I don't say that more DR is not welcome, only that the 2 stop difference comes into play only for my landscapes shooting. For landscapes where DR is usually crucial, I take my time and blend in bracketed exposures. It is easier with a Nikon (yes, I have used the d800 and am speaking from experience) but then, it doesn't bother me much.

7
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Posting about sensors and DR!
« on: September 29, 2014, 03:07:20 PM »
I know, it isn't about both sides or not. I KNOW both sides go at it. But it's an issue, DR is an issue with Canon cameras. It's THE issue with Canon cameras for many people. It's a topic of discussion. DIS-CUS-SION. We CAN be civil about this issue. It's a choice we have to make. It's a difficult choice to make, though, when the anti-DR crowd regularly insults the pro-DR crowd. It's usually the anti-DR crowd who throws the first insult, or gets mocking and derogatory, or what have you...that's where the discussion always takes a really bad turn. That's where it gets personal, dirty, mean...that's where it becomes a war rather than a discussion.


It's not really that simple. A great number of posters see this course of insults the other way round. You see what you want to see.

8
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Posting about sensors and DR!
« on: September 29, 2014, 02:51:10 PM »
Let's just be civil, okay?

You expect much.

These DR arguments end up with both sides pissing in the wind.

With that attitude, these discussions will never be civil. I tried to start a thread dedicated to DR discussion, didn't push any kind of agenda, and the thread was still derailed...primarily by the anti-DR crowd. So long as no one tries to react differently to the DR discussion (which is not going to go away...it's the only real issue Canon cameras have, so OF COURSE people are going to bring the subject up), then nothing will ever BE different.

How can it be derailed by people posting examples of the latitude the Canon sensor is capable of ? Actually something has come out of these discussions; there has been less talk of greater DR and more talk of being able to pushing 0 data. That in itself is a step towards understanding what Exmor really offers over the current Canon sensors. You want to push 0 data then I think we are all in agreement that Canon is not your camera of choice.

Exactly. Every time a head to head comparison shot is made, the images are so hopelessly underexposed that it is bound to show Canon in poor light. Real world imaging narrows the differences considerably.

9
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Posting about sensors and DR!
« on: September 29, 2014, 02:40:49 PM »
Let's just be civil, okay?

You expect much.

These DR arguments end up with both sides pissing in the wind.

With that attitude, these discussions will never be civil. I tried to start a thread dedicated to DR discussion, didn't push any kind of agenda, and the thread was still derailed...primarily by the anti-DR crowd. So long as no one tries to react differently to the DR discussion (which is not going to go away...it's the only real issue Canon cameras have, so OF COURSE people are going to bring the subject up), then nothing will ever BE different.

Discussions about DR have never been civil to my knowledge. I try hard not to wade too deep in it. I know well enough what the D800 sensor can do having shot with it for a couple of months (borrowed it from a friend). I too could give head to head comparisons but for what? It is generally accepted that the DR of the Exmorr sensors is better, hardly anyone denies it. Only that most people around here claim that they don't find themselves overly limited by it. The immediate response one gets with such a claim is being told off that using Canon cameras tantamounts to accepting poor IQ.  You shouldn't be surprised that such comments are not going to find too much favor in a Canon gear forum. People get riled up with such silly comments and so we find the posts that are made here.

It's basic common sense to me, nobody wants to hear that the gear they are using is crap. if someone says that then they should be prepared for a riled up answer. To expect anything else is sticking your head in the sand.

TBF, I did mention both sides  :)

10
Abstract / Re: This image may have been photoshopped
« on: September 29, 2014, 11:31:11 AM »
Well, I just go to the ZOO in my home town, and see a lot of New breed of Animal/ Birds, and take a snap shots for you to proof too

There was this Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters ... and then there is the Zoo in your home town!

Great images Surapon sir! They sure made me laugh  ;D

11
Sorry, tools like that do not meet my standards of image quality, not when they come with that kind of price tag.
If you're happy with them, great.  But image quality like this is the reason I dumped Canon and went to ABC cameras.
Most people likely would not notice the noise, I sure do, much as I listen to the silence between the music.

Apparently your standards of image quality are higher than those of photographers who shoot with Canon ... Sam Abell, David Burnett, Patrick Demarchelier, Greg Gorman, Lauren Greenfield, Gregory Heisler, David Hume Kennerly, Douglas Kirkland, Antonin Kratochvil, Vincent Laforet, Annie Liebovitz, Don McCullin, Eric Meola, Peter Read Miller, James Nachtwey, Martin Parr, Paolo Pellegrin, Denis Reggie, Sebastiao Salgado, Mario Sorrenti, Pete Souza, Joyce Tenneson, Damon Winter, etc.  I know some of them don't shoot Canon exclusively, but with all of the talk about Canon's poor sensors, it's a wonder they shoot Canon at all.  Those folks just don't have image quality standards like you do, or maybe they just photograph easy-peasy stuff without too much dynamic range. ;)

My standards ARE high.  Is that a bad thing?

When I see a great image, like the one a few pages back, that's marred by muddy shadows full of chroma noise and banding that I find obvious even at a 2 and 3 MP reduction, there's a problem with the CAMERA, not the photographer.
See and think for yourself, spewing a bunch of random names is meaningless to me and pointless to your argument if these are supposed to be pros.  Many big name pros have an army of photoshop'ers working behind the scenes to fix the problems.
While you're at it, why didn't you include Joe McNally?  There's a guy who knows how to use light to make an image, whatever gear he's using.  Canon likely bought him off with a crate of RT600s, saves him a bunch of setup time but I wonder if he's secretly using Nikon when he's alone in the woods... ;)

Did someone mention Joe McNally? Isn't he the same guy who uses 17 flashguns? I wonder why, when he has all the DR that a Nikon camera provides  :o :o :o

12
EOS Bodies / Re: No EOS-1D X Replacement in 2014 [CR2]
« on: September 29, 2014, 10:54:35 AM »
Just curious – why would Canon need to replace the 1D-X? It looks to me that the Nikon D4-S has similar or lesser specs. No other camera competes in this market segment, so why do people think it will be replaced anytime soon?


Canon released the 1DX in March, 2012. It took Nikon two years to catch up with the roughly comparable D4-S in March earlier this year (and some people say Canon doesn't innovate, but then that is another matter altogether :P). I guess sometime next year, Canon will release the 1DX Mark-II and in doing so, will leapfrog Nikon again for the cycle to continue.

13
What I find funny is if you go over to sonyalpharumors many people compare the new Exmor to the 5DMKIII and admit it is a better camera system all round.

These are all comments by sonyalpharumors members on the latest sensor threads.

"dynamic range at higher ISO's where the 5DIII's lurch ahead of their nikon/sony counterparts"

Funny how even they think DXO is dodgy "If you leave DxOMark planet and land back to earth, you'll see that in real life the difference is very very little, and after ISO400 Canon 6D and 5DMarkIII are as good as or better than Sony sensors"

Also most are in the same camp bout the mega pixel war and know that sony needs to create more native faster lenses 'I'd rather have faster autofocus, in body stabilization, quieter shutter and more native lenses (and faster ones) than more megapixels.'

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/the-high-megapixel-war-rumors-canon-46mp-camera-coming-soon-and-sony-in-januaryfebruary/

From that article it seems they are excited to see what Canon do with this new sensor, because although sony make the best sensors their cameras and systems are a lot less than to be desired. Also How much more R&D do sony actually have after putting all into exmor?

Canon was in a similar position a few years ago and then regurgitated the same tech for the last 5 years so that will be interesting to see how far sony can push their tech and if Canon does have new tech how it will rival and the time scales because sony is to announce their new sensors early 2015.

I think thats what we are forgetting and a lot of people on here are the other way round ATM DR and resolution is all the rage and aggressively contested, forget about all that Canon has over its competition and that the 5DMKIII is far from being thrown to the parts bin.

Pretty much sums up human behavior, doesn't it? In the yearning for something better, most people don't value what they already have.

14
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Posting about sensors and DR!
« on: September 29, 2014, 10:37:06 AM »
Let's just be civil, okay?

You expect much.

These DR arguments end up with both sides pissing in the wind.

15

In my experience the Dig!c 4 cameras do have more FPN that both the earlier and later versions but it is buried so deep that it is just irrelevant 99.9% of the time to 99.9% of people.

Yes, it is irrelevant to most people simply because not everyone underexposes their photos massively needing to push their photos by 5 stops to make them "usable".

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