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Messages - AvTvM

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Pricewatch Deals / Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Body at B&H Photo $2999
« on: November 07, 2013, 03:24:51 AM »
where I live, the 5D III is currently available starting at Euro 2600,-  [incl. 20% VAT]
Nikon D800 is starting at Euro 2075,-  [incl. 20% VAT]

As a matter of principle I will NOT buy the 5D III, as long as it costs even 1 cent more than a D800.

Most likely I'll get a Sony A7R next year, once good non-Zeiss lenses are available at reasonable cost.  :-)

AF has no place on a serious video camera.

"Just don't use it. Just ignore it. Just put up with it. And no, it won't be cheaper without AF." 
same as video on each and every stills camera.

The new sensor must always have been in there. However, most likely, all the new software and calibration necessary for all the lenses was not done yet at that time, so it they release the camera without that functionality.
Now, what they may have to put in is at least new firmware, but maybe the firmware takes more memory  than the old chip can handle, so a new memory chip needs to be installed. There may also be additional chips, i.e. circuitry that needs to be put in to process the dual chip phase signal. Maybe in the original version they only used the sensor in its "normal" mode (dual pixels merged), which would required a less complicated processing circuitry.

Thanks!  Sounds realistic to me! 

is this news real or just some joke?

HOW can the C100 be upgraded to dual-pixel AF without putting in a new sensor and (some) new electronics and new firmware?

The choice between Canon gear and Nikon, Sony, etc. gear is no choice at all. ... Besides, this is a Canon forum, not a Nikon one.


I promise to discuss only about Canon-stuff again, if and when Canon comes up with something worthwhile to talk about. FF-sensored mirrorless system camera plus assorted lens-linep. Even better, but not much more expensive than the Sony A7R ... would be my preferred subject. 

Until that happens we'll continue to have fun disecting Nikon's sorry retro-mistake, the Digital Frankenstein. :-)

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« on: November 06, 2013, 07:18:14 AM »
On a personal note, I have always prefered the look and feel of dedicated dials over a menu driven UI. That said, I've made the latter work for me over the last 15 years or so....

Really depends on shooting style. 7 dedicated dials "for everything" cluttered over a camera ... are "usable" but not great, when all the shooting situations ever encountered are exactly like what the guy in the Df teasers does:
* casually look at STATIC scene only
* look at camera ... not at  the scene
* twist all requisite wheels ... and don't forget to unlock them before every turn
* look through viewfinder, frame your shot
* take shot ... stretching finger uncomfortably up high to reach shutter release 
Any other shooting situation = a lot of lost shots. For people with normally developed dexterity it is not easily possible to hold camera plus possibly heavy lens, look through viewfinder and rotate up to 7 locked dials, requiring right and left hand. Would you really want to try that while shooting a wedding?  Your kids playing? Your dog running? A really interesting street scene happening this very moment - and only NOW! - before your eyes?

With a good, current UI - like the one found on every Canon EOS DSLR with 2 wheels [=better than a rebel] and only a few buttons, all accessible with only the right hand, it is not necessary to use the menu system at all or to look at the camera, unless one wants to.   
* see any scene - including fast moving action
* take camera to the eye, look through viewfinder
* quickly set all shooting paramters with right hand only - using front wheel/thumb wheel/very few buttons, all very intuitive and easy to memorize, all relevant settings visible in viewfinder 
* take shot

Nikon's current DSLR UI is already more "retro" than Canon's. And it works very well too, but requires more practice/routine to really master it. Most recent tweaks were not for the better [AF-mode selection]. The pseudo-"retro" UI on the Df is a disaster. Luckily it will bite only the pseudo hipsters buying it. :-)

Nikonians, as far as I see, are not really so impressed. The thing that might save this camera is if it (somehow, it's not clear yet) performs better with manual focus lenses. That could be an interesting perk, especially if you have a lot of Zeiss, Voigtländer and old Nikon lenses.

The Df offers mechanical compatibility with manual focus Nikon AI lenses [like all "better" Nikon DSLRs do] and - uniquely - also with even older Non-AI Nikkor lenses. However, even if one would really want to use 1960s lenses without proper coating and often sub-par IQ on digital sensors, handling itself on a Df will still be compromised. see the dpreview preview, page 3 .. they explain it quite well:
Even worse, other than mechanical compatibility with old Nikon glass, the DF offers NOTHING at all to support manual focusing: no focusing aids at all, no special/"retro" viewfinder/screen with splitscreen or microlenses. Not even as an option. Viewfinder screen is fixed according to Nikon. 

Canon EOS 6D with changeable viewfinder screen and some nice Zeiss MF lenses is definitely a far better "manual focusing" package.

To be honest, this camera will probably sell well, which is a shame because it will encourage Canon to follow this stupid retro fad. Don't get me wrong, if retro means focusing back on individual user needs and building cameras that are a better fit to them, then I have no problem. In the case of the DF, retro goes as far as looks (which it doesn't quite pull off) and adding another layer of complexity to the control set-up. It will sell well because it looks fashionable, reminds the grey-haired crowd (who have higher disposable incomes) of the cameras of their youth, yet doesn't lose any of the features that give you bragging rights down at the local camera club.

Yet this camera is not a sign of things to come, it is an awkward hark back to a previous era. It feels disjointed in its concept because cameras have moved on in the last three decades. The latest Nikon 'G' series lenses lack aperture rings, which means that the DF needs a way of setting aperture on the body. A multi-point AF system, multi-mode metering, variable frame rates, as well as all the 'digital stuff', add their own levels of complication. This leads to a messy design, which when combined with the desire for retro styling, gives birth to a bizarre Chimera.

Except I believe the Df will not sell well. Way too expensive compared to much better cameras (5D III, D800).  And those old greyhaired photogs are not stupid. It's more the younger crowd that falls for "retro" looks. Pseudo hipster kinda thing.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« on: November 05, 2013, 10:16:29 AM »
More faulty logic: you are still assuming that video costs extra,

You got it wrong. I don't care in at all, how much it costs a camera maker to add video capability to a DSLR (it does cost something). ALL I am saying is, that camera makers should CHARGE more for dual purpose gear compared to single purpose gear.

They should sell all cameras in a video-enabled version and a video disabled version. Video disabled version at significantly lower price. Video-enabled version at much higher price, but still much lower than combined cost of a stills and a video camera.  That would be fair. That way, those who clamour for additional usage and functionality in a camera that is NOT required by many (stills photographers) would be made to pay for their part of the ride.

It's like going on a cruise ... passage in cabin with sea view does not cause (significantly) higher cost to the cruise company than passengers in a "inner" cabin.  But the price charged is hugely different. Simply, because users of the outward cabin get extra functionality/pleasure.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« on: November 05, 2013, 09:30:00 AM »
Oh, can we also put to bed the "take away video and make the camera cheaper!" arguments for good now. Here's a stills camera aimed at photographers at the expense of videographers, and its 50% more expensive than their more mass-market D600/D610. It's gonna double the street price of the 6D, which is the same size and has video.
No video makes it more niche, which makes it more expensive

Completely wrong. Nikon s decision to launch this Digital Frankenstein for USD/€ 2750,- has nothing to do with video yes/or no. It's the price point for a pseduo-retro, pseudo hipster fashion accessory.

A true test would be for CaNikon  to sell say the 6D and D610 each in a video-enabled" "v"-version and a "p"- pure photography version with absolutely everything equal, including outer design, except video-capture/video out [not firmware hackable]. "p" version being sold at USD/€ 1500  and the "v" version at 2500.  One grand more is still dirt cheap compared to purchase of both a video and a stills camera. THAT way, we would see, whether videographers are just cheapskates piggybacking on stills shooter's DSLRs or whether they are willing to pay at least for a portion of their desired dual-use cameras. 

I KNOW what the market split would be. Less than 10% of those yelling for all sorts of video crap in DSLRs wpould be willing to pay anything for it.

The more I see of this camera, the less I like it: I find it very ugly -too big and lumpy and wanting in its deign philosophy.

Even Nikon doesn't seem to be sure about returning to an interface based upon dedicated marked dials, so they provide both. Pure photography? My arse! This is pure marketing gimmickry that has actually complicated the control interface through duplication.

This is a camera that claims to address the issue of over-complication in modern DSLRs, but actually does nothing of the sort, other than removing video. So video over-complicates a modern DSLR, but all the in-camera retouching options, a 39 point AF system with umpteen different tracking modes, banks of custom setting, etc. That's all fine it seems!

If you really want "Pure Photography", you need to make pure design decisions: you must decide what the camera can do and what it cannot. The DF attempts to be simple and yet lose none of the sophisticated features of a modern autofocus digital SLR camera; it fails because our expectations of what this constitutes a modern DSLR, lead to a design that is inherently complicated.

I fully agree with almost everything you say. Except, that "no video" is an absolutely necessary step in getting to a "pure photography camera ... without clutter and disctractions."
Unfortunately, Nikon did not go the rest of the way.

Nikon wanted too much
1. compatibility not only for older AI lenses (like any other "better" Nikon DSLR) but also for those really old dog Non-AI lenses ... instead of leaving these uncoated, unsuited for digital photography clunkers alone! They are strictly for use with film cameras or as deco objects or as collector's items. Or all three. But nothing else.
2. "Retro-UI" befitting a manual focus, aperture auto only classic SLR (FM/FE) and on top of that a modern UI to control a "very bland and uninspired" DSLR. Now there are 7 (!) wheels on that camera, plus numerous buttons and switches.  Not well thought out at all. In the end, that's what makes the Df complicated rather than easy and really "silly" - as dpreview puts it. 

Nikon gave it too little
* instead of buidling it on the D610 chassis, they should have started with D800 chassis, electronics, battery  and most importantly AF-system. Then put the D4 sensor in it, if they really got a huge surplus of those left over. And then retro-style the package in a much more elegant, restrained, pure and straightforward way. 
* retro- design should not have precluded inclusion of WiFi (and possibly NFC - for wireless remote control and GPS) plus master-trigger pop-up flash hidden in that huge viewfinder bump

Then Nikon could have easily sold it at 3k (body only, forget about that 50/1.8). It would have given them a meaningful and potentially attractive addition to their DSLR line-up:
* fast/reportage D4 on top (max fps), not cannibalized by D800 or Df
* Df for medium res/low light stuff, medium speed, WEDDING etc. and "retro-fans"
* D800/E for hi res stuff - landscape/studio stuff 
* D610 for budget restrained hobbyists willing to put up with a marketing cripple

But ... they botched it.  :P

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« on: November 05, 2013, 12:15:32 AM »
I would like to see Canon make a competing model.

no thanks. I would rather like to see Canon make a killer 7D 2 and a Sony A7R-killer. :-)

No video: At last, all those who complain about paying for video they never use have an option available. Buy the D800 with video or buy the Df and save yourselves $50. I guess I was wrong and you guys were right. You are are paying more for video capability. Spend that $50 any way you want.

hehehe .. were I live the D800 is currently at € 2000. The new Nikon DOA will be at least € 3000 body only. So no video will cost 1000 € .. oO. That's not the way it's meant to be!  ;D

I like the look and the manual controls.
If Canon comes up with something like this I shall surely buy.

and I shall surely puke.

Just saw this....... 16 mp ???????

yep. Nikon is re-using the D4 sensor and CPU. 16 MP, Expeed 3. Hi-ISO up to 204800. 
Coupled with D600/610 AF and electornics (4s to 1/4000s shutter speeds).
Wifi as an optional WU-1 wart. ["no clutter. No distractions" said the teaser].
Plus a record number of wheels all over the camera.
And leatherette all the way up to the flash-shoe. [FE style]


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