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Messages - jrista

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1306
With all of the talk on the Internet about how bad the DR/IQ was with the 5D Mark II, it would seem that Canon focused on fixing those problems rather than the problem of not having enough megapixels.

I hope they did, but an early result showed 5D2 ISO 100 read noise 6.1 ADU and 5D3 ISO 100 read noise 6.0 ADU. Not much of an improvement if the result hold up.

You really need to stop replicating that everywhere unless you are willing to back it up with links to your reference material, forum topics, articles, etc. There is nothing to indicate that the 5D III has ANYWHERE NEAR the amount of read noise as the 5D II, which had pretty bad low-ISO read noise at over 27 e-.

1307
Actually the most likely reason why Canon hasn't gone up in resolution is that it's pointless to do so. There are almost no Canon or Nikon lenses that can resolve more than 18 megapixels outside of the center quarter of the frame, even Zeiss lenses have issues. The only advantage over the overwhelming majority of the frame of going past 18 megapixels is the incidental benefits of capturing the gradiation between all the blury lines that you will be putting on the sensor. By capturing contrasting edges better you can help resolution a little.

This image illustrates the issue best. Versus a 21 MP sensor, a 36 megapixel sensor would be able to extract about 7% more resolution from a very high end lens simply by rendering the gradiation between the multi colored lines more cleanly.

So in conclusion the reason Canon doesn't go higher in megapixels is because nobody would notice difference and it would be a huge drain on storage and processing resources.

You do have a point to a degree with lens resolution.  However, I don't know where you get 18mp from.  Maybe you can share.

That would probably be 18mp APS-C, which is equivalent to 47mp FF. That is roughly 116lp/mm in terms of spatial resolution, which according to Canon's theoretical MTF's is supposedly the highest resolution their best L-series lenses can achieve. Real-world MTF's generated for the same Canon L-series lenses generally seem to indicate significantly lower resolution than that around the lenses peak (which tends to f/4-5.6 or so). I'm a bit skeptical of both tests myself (and growing more skeptical the more I research). Canon's are theoretical (essentially reproduction accuracy of 10lp/mm and 30lp/mm diagonal line pair test targets...FAR lower than the  levels modern sensors are capable of.) DXO's real-world lens tests only seem to address wide-open aperture performance, where resolution tends to be obliterated by optical aberrations that reduce resolution well below the diffraction limit. DXO tests are also limited by the spatial resolution of test cameras, which are often the key limiting factor in terms of resolution. Other lens resolution tests (such as TDP's ISO12233 charts, which are not exactly MTF's, although they aim to demonstrate the same thing) are often based on images captured by older, lower resolution sensors (where spatial resolution tops out at around 75 lp/mm...also well below the theoretical max at f/4...173lp/mm, and well below the theoretical max of an 18mp APS-C/47mp FF.)

The MTF's for Canon's lenses, which theoretically test 10lp/mm targets for contrast and 30lp/mm targets for sharpness (the two factors of spatial resolution), reproduction accuracy for their newest releases (i.e. 24-70 f/2.8 L II, 600mm f/4 L II, 500mm f/4 L II, 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II, etc.) is approaching perfection. If we trust Canon's own word, their lenses are technically capable of resolving around 45mp worth of full-frame spatial resolution (center of lens...falloff to edge differs per lens, so I won't bother with edge resolution here). In my own comparisons of resolution between my 450D, which is 12.2mp (96lp/mm), and my 7D which has that 18mp sensor capable of 116lp/mm, there is a significant improvement with my best lenses (I use the 100mm f/2.8 macro lens, as its optically superb and produces excellent...although not perfect...resolution at f/4). I'm not sure I'd say its capable of 116lp/mm at f/4, but its certainly capable of more than 96lp/mm. I know the 135mm f/2 L @ f/4 is a slightly sharper lens than the 100mm f/2.8 Macro, so I believe it is indeed possible for Canon's best of the best lenses to reproduce 45mp FF worth of spatial resolution. The likes of the 500mm and 600mm f/4 L II lenses could quite possible be near-perfect optics (one would certainly hope for over ten grand a lens), capable of resolving nearly 173lp/mm wide open. At that level, you could have a 103.4mp FF sensor.

1308
EOS Bodies / Re: New Canon 5D mark III raws
« on: March 07, 2012, 02:37:32 AM »
@justsomedude: You can try this: http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/cameraraw6-7.html

1309
EOS Bodies / Re: New Canon 5D mark III raws
« on: March 07, 2012, 02:14:56 AM »
I think most of us are pretty solidly confident that Canon has resolved their read noise issues, and are probably getting much closer to that 13.9 stops of maximum DR that Sony Exmor sensors are getting...so the difference is probably less than a stop, (personally I hope and believe it will be in the realm of 0.25 or less stops), of DR difference between any one of the 1D X, 5D III, D800, D4 and D7000.


I had hoped that but earlier today someone on DPR measured 6.02 ADU for the 5D3 at ISO 100 while my 5D2 measures 6.09 ADU.


Who did that measurement? If your talking someone on the forums, thats not what I'm referring to. If it was an official step wedge test based on JPEG output (which are usually what official DPR DR tests are based on), those tests are generally worthless (JPEG compression obliterates DR.) The DXO tests are very accurate, and measure the sensor hardware at a lower level than a JPEG step wedge test does. From a headroom standpoint, i.e. the ability to recover highlights or shadows, DXO's tests are more accurate (as demonstrated by the many videos on the net showing unbelievable shadow recovery with the D7000, where you can see before your eyes the recovery of 4-6 stops of what appears to be solid black in under exposed photos.)


Not a wedge test. Measuring the masked off black area of an ISO 100 RAW, finding the std dev in raw levels, then taking the max raw level - the raw black point and then dividing it by the read noise and then taking the log2 of that to get dynamic range in stops. JS provided the raw read of 6.02 ADU. It's the same thing DxO does and same thing I did in my tests of the 40D,20D,50D,7D,5D2,1D3.


To date, from ISO 100 to ISO 25600 test images, both JPEG and RAW, not one SOUL outside of you has mentioned any amount of banding noise visible in ANY image from the 5D III (most of which are from pre-production models even!) From the noise levels at ISO 6400, even at 25600, the 5D III, with black and shadow levels cranked up as high as they can go in Photoshop, the only thing visible even in the darkest blacks is clean, random noise. I cranked up EV on every ISO 100 image I could get my hands on, and I have seen nothing but a few speckles of random noise in the darkest shadows. You would need to produce an actual sample image that clearly demonstrates banding noise before I'd even consider that you are not purely fabricating the details our producing (i.e. 6.02 ADU.) You would also need to produce a link to whatever forum thread or article on DPR that you are referring to that supposedly measured the 5D III's read noise, because I'm highly skeptical anyone has had a chance to do any accurate measurements with the proper gear and care to produce anything remotely resembling a valid result.

Additionally, if you are trying to replicate DXO tests on your own with Photoshop/ACR, Lightroom, Aperture, or any other mainstream RAW editor, your not working with accurate data. Outside of DCRAW, every RAW processor applies a tone curve (picture style/image style/etc.) to the RAW image data before rendering to screen or file. You aren't looking at the unmodified RAW image data, even if you use a "neutral" tone curve...since even neutral is non-linear. You need to use the right kind of image processing software, as well as specially designed test targets, to test the full DR capable by a digital sensor. DXO not only uses a very specialized system to measure noise and DR (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/About/In-depth-measurements/DxOMark-testing-protocols/Noise-dynamic-range), they use the same system to measure every camera, so comparisons are accurate.

1310
EOS Bodies / Re: New Canon 5D mark III raws
« on: March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 AM »
I think most of us are pretty solidly confident that Canon has resolved their read noise issues, and are probably getting much closer to that 13.9 stops of maximum DR that Sony Exmor sensors are getting...so the difference is probably less than a stop, (personally I hope and believe it will be in the realm of 0.25 or less stops), of DR difference between any one of the 1D X, 5D III, D800, D4 and D7000.

I had hoped that but earlier today someone on DPR measured 6.02 ADU for the 5D3 at ISO 100 while my 5D2 measures 6.09 ADU.

Who did that measurement? If your talking someone on the forums, thats not what I'm referring to. If it was an official step wedge test based on JPEG output (which are usually what official DPR DR tests are based on), those tests are generally worthless (JPEG compression obliterates DR.) The DXO tests are very accurate, and measure the sensor hardware at a lower level than a JPEG step wedge test does. From a headroom standpoint, i.e. the ability to recover highlights or shadows, DXO's tests are more accurate (as demonstrated by the many videos on the net showing unbelievable shadow recovery with the D7000, where you can see before your eyes the recovery of 4-6 stops of what appears to be solid black in under exposed photos.)

Quote
So nothing there. Basically the exact same. I just hope the 5D3 is one of the few bodies where the masked area performs much differently from the main area. But it seems more like it will be 11.8 going to 12.05 versus 11.8 going to 13.5 or 13.8 and with the 5D3 having more fixed pattern noise the usable differences ending up over 2 stops worse. I haven't measured it yet myself, I just hope the other guy messed it up (he is usually not one to miss this stuff up though) or that the masked area just doesn't work well for measuring this body. If we are really lucky ISO 100 will have been rated 1/2 stop off compared to the 5D2 and then we can gain an extra 1/2 stop back and 12.05 goes to 12.55 but that is probably not going to be the case. Anyway it seems unlikely the 5D3 will be able to measure better than 12.6 and it might be 11.9 again. The D800 would probably be 13.5-13.9 plus have less fixed pattern noise, so whatever it has will have an extra bonus of further usability.

Where in the world are you getting that the 5D III has MORE fixed pattern noise? So far, in all my poking around with the samples available on the net, the 5D III has no visible fixed pattern noise at all as far as I can tell, right down into the deep shadows. You got a link somewhere that shows the 5D III having WORSE fixed pattern noise than the 5D II (which was pretty bad even for its time, at 27.8 electrons worth.)

1311
I think people are creating a bit of a warped idea of what "high resolution" DSLR photography is with the advent of the D800 and its 36.3mp sensor. The resolutions we have been getting out of digital cameras these days is really incredible, and the fact that quality has not only remained high, but keeps improving as resolution grows, begs a tip of the hat to the likes of Canon and Nikon both. I think the fact that the resolutions we have today are more than adequate for anything but the most demanding professional cases, except for one, can be proven as well.

For one, Canon DOES care about high resolution photographers. When they released the 5D II @ 21.1mp, it was the highest resolution digital camera on the planet, by about a 72% margin (over the 10-12mp cameras that were available at the time.) Its been selling like hotcakes ever since it was released, and there still seem to be more than a few people who would prefer to buy a 5D II at $2000 than a 5D III at $3500. There is also plenty of time left in this year, and there are still outstanding rumors that a 40mp+ monster is in the works by Canon (potentially the competition for the D800, probably released by Photokina.) Over the last four years, plenty of photographers, professional and otherwise, have been taking 21.1mp photos, as well as photos of much lower resolutions, and blowing them up to huge multi-foot dimensions with stunning quality. Personally, I've taken the meager 12.2mp images of my old 450D, and blown them up to 60x40" size (about 5x3.3 feet) as part of some experimentations on digital photography, printing, resolution, and quality in rough comparison to film (and outside of 300dpi drum scans of 4x5 transparencies, digital outperforms 35mm film and many medium format films without question.) From a quality and enlargement standpoint, 36mp is not a necessity, and unless you intend to print at a high print resolution at immense dimensions, will probably never actually be a necessity (not in the general sense.)

Landscape photographers (such as myself, I do landscapes, birds, and wildlife) tend to prefer their whole photograph, and the only time cropping really comes into play is when you accidentally include something you did not want (i.e. due to a less than 100% CF VF) or when you need to level the horizon. Digital enlargements begin to break down when you blow things up beyond about 2-3 times larger than their original size, so if you print at 10 feet, you might indeed actually need more resolution. If you normally print on 17x22"/A2 size or smaller, 21.1mp is enough for a native resolution print with standard fine art border. If you normally print 34x44"/A0 size, 21.1mp is plenty for enlarging without any visible loss in detail at an appropriate viewing distance (even if you did print at 300ppi.) If your primary mode of display for your photography is via the web, then a simple 8mp camera is more than you would ever need, since you need to downscale most of the time to shrink the huge native resolution of a modern DSLR photo to a size that can be reasonably viewed on the average computer screen.

Personally, I like 24x36 and 34x44 sizes for my landscape photos hung on my walls at home (and I like John Fielder's work hung on the walls at my workplace at similar sizes.) At those dimensions you're already at multi-foot size. Unless you have some extremely large walls to hang your work on or fancy and unique gallery representations for your work that would actually warrant a 60x40 size print or larger (and even then, you can often print at lower resolution, so your still not enlarging more than 3x in such a case), there is no actual need for higher resolution from a print standpoint.

There is one case that I think can legitimately demonstrate a need for more resolution. Personally, I would prefer more resolution for this very thing, however it comes with a couple caveats, although those caveats are mitigated more and more with improvements to DSLR technology. The real legitimate case for more resolution is CROPPING POWER. Its a hell of a lot cheaper to buy a $3500 camera, or for that matter even a $7000 camera, if it has enough resolution to allow you to slap on a 400mm lens and capture photos of distant subjects, then crop to compose and fill the frame properly. Without cropping power, you might very well need a $13,000 super telephoto lens to capture the same photo. Even with cropping power, your not going to match the same level of IQ as you could get from that $13,000 lens...but its thirteen grand! For that much money, you could get 3 5D III's and the brand new 24-70 L, or two 1D X's! You could also spend $3500, bank the $9500 difference (earn some interest on it), and buy some less expensive lenses, or even buy the 1D X as well as the 5D III, and still have money left over.

CROPPING POWER...its the real value of higher resolution that I can see, at least for those who shoot distant subjects, want more magnification, but don't have ten grand or more to drop on a supertelephoto. But its largely useless for landscape photography, and I would presume for wedding, studio, still life, street, and most other kinds of photography as well. Unless your printing at GARGANTUAN size...and even then...from a native print size standpoint, compare the 5D II and III to the D800 (300ppi):


ModelLengthWidth
D80020.48"13.6"
5D III19.2"12.8"
5D II18.72"12.48"

Given these differences, if your printing at 34x44, 50x40, 60x40, the native image resolution of the camera really doesn't matter, the differences are negligible when enlarging so much. You get far greater benefit from improvements to dynamic range, ISO, and reductions to noise than you really get from increased resolution.

Assuming you do get a high MP camera for its cropping power, you have to deal with the drawbacks. No matter how much spatial resolution your camera has, there is really no substitute for optical magnification power. If you really need maximum quality and the only way to get it is with a 600mm lens, then all the cropping power in the world isn't going to help you. From a physics standpoint, smaller pixels mean the random nature of photons will increase noise over larger pixels. There are also other electrical and physical limitations with smaller pixels that limit how much IQ you can extract from them.

So, unless you really have some extreme or unique requirements, are a professional who necessarily demands high resolution for the work they do (and even then, the argument can be made that we have enough resolution) or can't afford a $10k+ lens and need ever increasing cropping power, just about any modern digital camera from 12mp onwards will produce photos that can be displayed on the web or blown up to very large sizes without any real concern that you actually don't have enough image resolution.



So, all that said, yes, I agree that there is a larger market that wants better ISO, lower noise, higher FPS, better AF and tracking, better metering, etc. There is a really good reason fewer people are asking for more resolution...the need for it is not as real as some may think.

1312
EOS Bodies / Re: New Canon 5D mark III raws
« on: March 06, 2012, 10:45:54 PM »
(The D800 would offer 50% more MP and perhaps a solid 2.5 stops better dynamic range at ISO 100 and perhaps between 1/3 stop worse to 1 stop better performance at high ISO. Based on that, the D800 most likely does have an all around better sensor, although it is not set in stone yet.*)

How do you figure the D800's DR is 2.5 stops better than the 5DIII? Just curious.

He can't. Theoretically, the maximum possible DR would be 14 stops with a full 14-bit image sensor and image processing pipeline (think about the nature of a bit...every successive bit has twice the significance...or value-holding power...as the previous; a doubling; in other words, every bit is one EV, or one stop, difference in dynamic range.) The 5D II achieved about 11.86 stops of DR, and the D7000 (Nikon's highest DR camera) achieved about 13.87 stops of DR (based on DXO data, which measures DR from the point where a single photon strikes the sensor to the point where the first pixel is fully saturated). Assuming the 5D III has not improved at all on the DR front, the maximum difference in DR would be about 2.01 stops. I think most of us are pretty solidly confident that Canon has resolved their read noise issues, and are probably getting much closer to that 13.9 stops of maximum DR that Sony Exmor sensors are getting...so the difference is probably less than a stop, (personally I hope and believe it will be in the realm of 0.25 or less stops), of DR difference between any one of the 1D X, 5D III, D800, D4 and D7000.

1313
EOS Bodies / Re: New Canon 5D mark III raws
« on: March 06, 2012, 10:25:38 PM »
The most interesting sample photo to me is the very last one, the one with the X-Rite color checker cards and the resolution diagrams. Looking at the radial moire test bubbles...I can't really see much color moire at all. There is obviously normal monochromatic moire (simple matter of physics there)...but color moire seems largely absent (but certainly a welcome absent). There is some visible color moire in the pink and blue bubble, and maybe a little in the red bubble, but the rest seem to lack any color moire at all.

1314
For those of you whom don't beleive the camera manufacturers are ripping us off. Here is a price list for a 16 bit 80MSPS ADC. Talk about milking the technology.

http://www.analog.com/en/analog-to-digital-converters/ad-converters/ist/191/pst.html


Well, if we use $50 as a base, and assume Canon has one ADC per read channel from the sensor (which I think would be essential to achieve 12fps@18mp)...that would be 16 ADC's at $50 each for a total of $800 (for 1D X), or 8 @ $50 for a total of $400 (for the 5D III). Thats assuming the ADC's are independent components. In the past, I believe they have been an integrated part of their DIGIC processors, and its entirely possible Canon has partly taken the approach Sony did, and are now embedding the ADC right on the sensor itself. Integrating the ADC component with any other component, and doing so while keeping electronic noise low, while still supporting the very high readout rates for 10-12 fps...is expensive.

I don't think camera manufacturers are ripping us off with their ADC's.


You missed the part where the price is $50.... for each PACK of 1000    ;D
(i.e. 5 cents each)


Oy, I did miss that. Oops. ;D Well, the other points still remain true, its not cheap to produce complex IC's like cmos sensors and DIGIC processors. The real cost isn't the ADC anyway, its far more complex devices like the metering or AF system and large IC's like the sensor.


I bet the real cost, talking direct material cost only, is mostly in the shutter/mirror box and the sensor (if it is FF size). Perhaps a little in the VF if it is exactly 100%. Many of the chips inside DSLRs have also been used in the $40 P&S cameras.


Your forgetting the AF unit, which is fairly large, must be extremely precise in its design, is generally bound to the sensor size (from a point spread standpoint), and must be coupled with advanced control logic in the camera's processor. When you factor in the metering sensor into the AF system (as they usually are these days), that makes the whole system even more complex. There is all the software to manage the AF and metering system, make it customizable, hook all that customizability into the various body buttons....

I think expensive cameras are expensive simply because they are expensive. ;) I don't think you can really reduce the cost down to a single component or two as easily as we would all wish. They are complex automated systems of interconnected, synchronous parts that work at incredibly high speed. Its not just metering, or just AF, or just the sensor, or even just any couple of those parts...its the system as a whole, multiple discrete components operating in harmony to accurately track subjects and produce highly detailed, highly accurate, high resolution photos...N times a second.

1315
I was so hyped up for the 5dmkiii but now it's just too expensive. Not to mention nikon have won the high MP war at least for the next 3-5 years I reckon.
I thought NOKIA Phone won the high MP war.

Depends. The Nokia Phone is a pixel-binned camera...you don't normally get the full 41mp, and when you do use it for "high resolution" shots, its somewhare in the vicinity of the D800 in terms of actual image resolution. When using it in binned mode, the images are about 3, 5, or 8mp (depending on binning mode), from what I've read. Pixel binning can indeed produce better quality photos, however you don't get a normal RAW image out of them (either JPEG or something akin to Canon m/sRAW), so you lose much of the flexibility RAW has when processing in post.

1316
For those of you whom don't beleive the camera manufacturers are ripping us off. Here is a price list for a 16 bit 80MSPS ADC. Talk about milking the technology.

http://www.analog.com/en/analog-to-digital-converters/ad-converters/ist/191/pst.html


Well, if we use $50 as a base, and assume Canon has one ADC per read channel from the sensor (which I think would be essential to achieve 12fps@18mp)...that would be 16 ADC's at $50 each for a total of $800 (for 1D X), or 8 @ $50 for a total of $400 (for the 5D III). Thats assuming the ADC's are independent components. In the past, I believe they have been an integrated part of their DIGIC processors, and its entirely possible Canon has partly taken the approach Sony did, and are now embedding the ADC right on the sensor itself. Integrating the ADC component with any other component, and doing so while keeping electronic noise low, while still supporting the very high readout rates for 10-12 fps...is expensive.

I don't think camera manufacturers are ripping us off with their ADC's.


You missed the part where the price is $50.... for each PACK of 1000    ;D
(i.e. 5 cents each)


Oy, I did miss that. Oops. ;D Well, the other points still remain true, its not cheap to produce complex IC's like cmos sensors and DIGIC processors. The real cost isn't the ADC anyway, its far more complex devices like the metering or AF system and large IC's like the sensor.

1317
Lenses / Re: Canon 50/1.4 focusing
« on: March 06, 2012, 01:27:16 AM »
I'm happy with my 50mm f1.4, but the DOF is pretty shallow when used close up at f1.4. Have you tried manual focusing, on a tripod to see if it's any sharper? I'm wondering if the lens is actually soft, of if the softness is being caused by something else.

Wide open the 50/1.4 still has uncorrected spherical aberration. From a portraiture standpoint, thats actually a desirable trait, as it doesn't expose in full detail every blemish. Granted, there is software that can "fix" that in a click these days, but generally speaking, a little spherical aberration in a portrait lens is useful. Spherical aberration (and the small amount of CA that is present) contributes to the less than perfect sharpness of the 50/1.4 at wider apertures. You would need at least f/2.8 to really start seeing good sharpness, and f/4 to approach the lenses maximum resolution.

Expecting perfection wide open on a fast lens...well, its like expecting world governments to stop spending and reduce debt...highly unlikely. ;)

1318
For those of you whom don't beleive the camera manufacturers are ripping us off. Here is a price list for a 16 bit 80MSPS ADC. Talk about milking the technology.

http://www.analog.com/en/analog-to-digital-converters/ad-converters/ist/191/pst.html


Well, if we use $50 as a base, and assume Canon has one ADC per read channel from the sensor (which I think would be essential to achieve 12fps@18mp)...that would be 16 ADC's at $50 each for a total of $800 (for 1D X), or 8 @ $50 for a total of $400 (for the 5D III). Thats assuming the ADC's are independent components. In the past, I believe they have been an integrated part of their DIGIC processors, and its entirely possible Canon has partly taken the approach Sony did, and are now embedding the ADC right on the sensor itself. Integrating the ADC component with any other component, and doing so while keeping electronic noise low, while still supporting the very high readout rates for 10-12 fps...is expensive.

I don't think camera manufacturers are ripping us off with their ADC's.

1319
I'm sorry, but I have to smite you, my friend. If I could smite you ten times in a row, I'd do that, too. You don't seem to get that for the last several years, the ENTIRE time we've all been waiting for this camera, we all heard nothing but "LESS MP, BETTER ISO!! LESS MP, BETTER ISO!! LESS MP, BETTER ISO!!".

You do realize there is more then one person on the internet, no?
Sounds like you were listening to the people who agreed with what you wanted and took that for the whole community.  Believe it or not, but Canon has multiple types of customers who have been asking for a variety of things, some of them wanting 'better ISO, less MP', others wanting 'more MP' and *gasp* these are not the same people!

Your assuming I fully agreed with the "Less MP, Better ISO" crowd (which, BTW, IS what MOST professionals were begging for...obviously there are outliers.) I personally was hoping for about 28mp, a stop or two better DR, and better AF (although I never dreamed of 61pt AF!) I personally wanted more MP, and the same level of ISO would have been fine as I'd mostly use a full-frame camera for landscape photography. I was hoping for a modest boost to mp that wouldn't make better DR impossible, not a revolutionary boost to 35mp or more that could have left me with the same DR and noise limitations. However despite not getting what I wanted, I'm PERFECTLY HAPPY with what Canon's given us. It was not a reduction of MP (which was certainly a plausible outcome, given the 1D X), and it appears to have been improved in ways I never imagined.

Quote
Simply put, the 5D III is a FANTASTIC camera from a specs standpoint. Canon listend to ALL of their users complaints, and fixed just about all of them, from what I can tell! Like the 1D X, it STOPPED focuing on megapixels, megapixels, megapixels, and STARTED focusing on WHAT PEOPLE FRIGGIN ASKED FOR!!!!!!!!! We just got a whopping TWO STOPS of NATIVE ISO improvement!!! The Nikon D4 didn't change native ISO one tiny bit, and neither did the D800!!

No.  They listened to some submarkets and ignored others.  Right now the people who were paid attention to are riding high and many, like yourself, seem to delight in bashing those who are not thrilled.  Congratz, you are on top, I am sure your epeen is very large.

Canon so far (remember, its likely we'll see more cameras from them by the end of the year) HAS LISTENED to their customers. Whenever I'd meet a gathering of Canon users, online or in real life, the most vocal groups were those who wanted better ISO (and more than a few were plenty happy to see that improvement accompanied by what they believed would be a necessary REDUCTION on megapixels.) There is an intriguing tendency about the people who are largely satisfied with what they have: they aren't overpoweringly vocal! When it comes to resolution, Canon users in general have seemed pretty satisfied with 21.1mp on the 5D II and 1Ds III. It was the highest resolution sensor for a long time, and only relegated to second highest relatively recently...so they complained about what wasn't good: ISO.

The only reason the most vocal complaining is about megapixels now is because of the release of the D800. Canon users are NOW GETTING VOCAL because Nikon released a fairly revolutionary (from a megapixels standpoint) high resolution full frame sensor at 36.3mp. It wasn't just 28mp, or 30mp, at 36.3mp it was a whole 15.2 megapixels higher resolution than the 5D II...a 72% increase. People want what they don't have, and suddenly, now they don't have 36.3mp in any currently announced Canon products. Ironically, thats about the only thing that really improved on the Nikon front from a stills photography standpoint (obviously there were improvements to video, however no one seems to be complaining about...or praising...that much at the moment for the 5D III). Nikon made a lot of noise about an extra stop or two ISO, but that was only expanded settings...the native ISO on Nikon cameras remained the same as the preceding models. The Nikon AF system remained the same. The frame rates remained about the same (or increased by 1fps in some cases). Metering systems did not change, etc.

Now contrast all that with the 5D III. The megapixels were improved by a small amount, but on top of that, it was given the RADICALLY improved top of the line AF module of the 1D X, a two full stop improvement in native ISO (to 25,600) making it the most sensitive DSLR camera on the market outside of the 1D X, significant improvements in noise at all levels of ISO despite the small increase in resolution,
what appears to be a fairly significant improvement in DR (yet to be proven by the likes of DXO and DPR, but apparent by manipulating the sample JPEG's floating around the net are very impressive indeed), the improved metering system of the 7D, the greatly improved 100% coverage transmissive LCD VF of the 7D and 1D X (which is fantastic, btw!!), a 54% increase in frame rate from 3.9 to 6, an extra CF slot that the 5D II did not have, and a host of other improvements over its predecessor (such as in-camera HDR and multi-exposure, in-camera photo editing, etc.)

From the standpoint of improvements over their predecessors, there is no question Canon has packed a HELL of a LOT into the 5D III, as well as the 1D X for that matter. The degree of improvement is stunning, and on all fronts, not just in the area of megapixels (which, from a factual standpoint, did still IMPROVE.) The improvements in Nikon's new cameras are marginal at best on the stills front (their improvements on the video front are still quite impressive), with the only significant point outstanding being the megapixel count of the D800...and the primary reason we have the NEW vocal group of Cannonites...the ones trying to scratch an itch they can't yet reach, and likely to be the next thing Canon addresses for their customers.

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We just got an unbelievable, entirely unexpected 61 point AF system with 41 cross-type sensors!!! And to go along with that, we got a nice boost from 3.9fps to 6fps, 18 continuous frames, and dual memory card slots (and don't you DARE complain about the fact that they are not both CF or both SD...YOU HAVE TWO FRIGGIN MEMORY CARD SLOTS, and are probably sitting pretty on 50,000 unused SD cards that you couldn't use any more once you went to the 5D II!)

Which only really matters if one cares about autofocus (I rarely use it personally), high drive speeds (I usually go a minute or more between shots) and SD support (I don't own a single SD card, and having to keep two formats around is doable, but a little obnoxious).

Granted, having to use two types of memory cards is rather obnoxious, and there could be better improvement on that front. I'm sure there will be. The simple point I was trying to make is...you DID GET IMPROVEMENT. Based on some of the videos from Canon (I believe on the EU site), customers asked for both types most often, for whatever reasons, so Canon answered their customers by putting in both types of slots. Just another example of human nature...bitch and complain when you get something new that isn't 100% exactly what you personally wanted. I would prefer two CF cards, but I have a ton of SD cards from when I used my 450D that I can now use again...rather than have them waste away on a shelf serving zero purpose whatsoever (which I believe is very probably the majority case.)

So I will not call it a bad camera, I think it will be an excellent body for the submarkets it is targeted towards, but it is not everything to everyone, and there are people who have been wanting a MP monster, saying they want an MP monster, and still want one and are kinda miffed that not only do they seem to have been ignored by Canon (I suspect such a camera is in the pipes though) but people like you are retconning things to make it sound like we were asking for what you wanted all along, which negates our existence.. and oddly enough people get kinda pissed at rhetoric like that.

I think saying they have not been answered is a bit premature. There are still rumors out there about a 40mp+ high resolution D800 competitor due later this year from Canon. It may be an HDSLR, more part of the cinema line than the stills line, but then again, it could just as likely be Canon's response to the D800. Once plans are in motion and prototypes hit the field, manufacturers don't generally make radical changes in direction. I'd imagine the 5D III has been in production since shortly after the 5D II was released, and has probably had prototypes out in the field for nearly a year. I'm sure Canon knew about the D800 36.3mp monster long before any of the public, but you still can't spin up a whole new product to compete that fast (it seems to take canon 3-4 years to produce a new version of existing cameras, let alone develop something entirely new like a 40mp sensor stills camera that is still deserving of the "professional grade" title.)



As for retconning....well, your assuming what I want personally is the same as what most vocal Canon users have wanted (which is not the case, as I mentioned above.) I don't think I'm rewriting history at all. Canon users (not just a submarket, the larger market in general, but particularly professionals...who live and die by their gear and the quality of their work) have been very vocal about wanting better ISO performance, and they became only more vocal after Sony Exmor started blowing Canon (and pretty much any other) sensors out of the water from a read noise standpoint. There were legitimate reasons to be vocal about it as well...Canon sensors had improved, but usually at some cost (the 5D II sensor has very high low-ISO read noise at 27 e- which could sometimes produce fixed-pattern noise even in the low midtones (making it visible even without exposure adjustment), and the 7D, while it has lower read noise, is still considerably noisier than the competition at high ISO.) Canon did have an MP monster, all things being equal, at 21.1mp. The next highest resolution sensors at the time were about 10-12mp, so a 21.1mp camera was truly a revolutionary MP monster (being some 72% larger than the next highest MP DSLR sensor at the time...which is more than the 51% improvement the D800 has over Sony 24mp sensors.) Canon users, for a long time, did not need to complain...they already had the best, and claiming they have been begging for a new record-setting MP monster as vocally as they were asking for better ISO performance is a bit misleading itself. I  don't deny that there are different groups of people asking for different things from Canon, such as myself, who would greatly prefer improved DR over anything else in a FF camera...but I know I'm a minority. That's nothing to mention the fact that most people who have done any printing themselves know that 21.1mp (let alone 36.3mp) is more than enough to blow photos up many times larger to multi-foot wall-spanning dimensions, without any marked loss in quality at proper viewing distances. The real power of higher MP these days comes from cropping (unless you literally want a perfect 300ppi print at 15x20 feet that can be viewed without any loss of detail from 4 feet away), however when cropping you simultaneously lose the ability to scale down and absorb noise that way as well...so uberpixels have their limitations regardless.

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ftw

Heh, sorry. Reading that again, it came off as a bigger rant than it sounded like when I wrote it. I'd been listening for hours to more people bitch about the 5D III than praise it, and it was really getting annoying at the time. And I found it so unbelievably ironic that Canon users got EXACTLY what they asked for, and it still wasn't enough. Couldn't be a better demonstration of the sad, sad, selfish nature of humankind than that!  :P

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