October 31, 2014, 06:40:00 AM

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Messages - jrista

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46
Animal Kingdom / Re: Show your Bird Portraits
« on: October 16, 2014, 11:31:41 PM »
@rpt: Just sitting out in the open. I have a hair trigger finger and a great eye. It took a LOT of practice to get shots like this...realize, this is going on the third year I've tried. All my prior year attempts don't compare. With all the accumulated knowledge, I was able to nail it this year.

47
EOS Bodies / Re: 7D MkII RAW sample images
« on: October 16, 2014, 02:54:10 PM »
Not far, but at least 1/2 a step better?
It is - no question. I've seen it very clearly in the conversions I've done.

I've owned a 70D (which I frequently use, to great effect, at high ISO - I know what I'm doing) for some time, and have converted a number of high ISO 7D Mk II Raw files (from Imaging Resource), comparing them with equivalent 70D files from the same site.

The 7D Mk II is better - and that's before the best converters have officially caught up with it (Photo Ninja converts 7D Mk II files already, even though it doesn't officially support them).

I've also compared it with the "best of the rest" in the crop camera world (Nikon D7000/D71000, Pentax K-5/K-3) - I'll take the 7D Mk II's results any day.

Once Photo Ninja and Capture One catch up with the 7D Mk II, things are going to be really good. DPR's Raw conversion examples are crap (how many more times? ACR (and Lr) are not "state of the art" converters any more, especially used as badly as they've been here) - but hey, they do give The Usual Suspects something else to fixate on and whine about, so they've got some value...

Seriously - download some 7D Mk II files from Imaging Resource and convert them yourselves  - the latest DPP (which I don't regard very highly at all as a converter) supports the 7D Mk II, and gives better results than these DPR monstrosities.


Alright. I'm going to put Capture One 8 to the test. I know that LR handles Canon noise worse than DPP does. That handling does not seem to have improved with LR 5.x. You have stated on multiple occasions lately that Capture One does a superior job handling noise. If it really does, then it may indeed be worth the money. I've trialed it in the past, although that may have been v7. I'm going to do some side-by-side processing of some images in both C1 and LR and see how things turn out. It looks like they offer a $10/mo subscription, which is fairly reasonable, and if it does a better job, I'll probably move to it.

48
Animal Kingdom / Re: Show your Bird Portraits
« on: October 16, 2014, 01:41:45 PM »
Blue Jay Portrait


Close up crop of one of my Blue Jay shots from yesterday. I think yesterday may have been the last day for beautiful yellow leaves. I may be able to get some branches off my maple for a reddish background today. Fall is fading fast, really fast. Going to be a coooold winter.



49
EOS Bodies / Re: 7D MkII RAW sample images
« on: October 15, 2014, 11:29:13 PM »
Look at the shaded side of the pushed bar. Poor color rendition, it's got that red-weighted color blotching and mottling, and the noise levels are very high. And those are downsampled as well. For a downsampled image, that's not very good.

All that is at ISO 3200. Are we sure the D7100 or A6000 won't show similar issues at ISO 3200?


Well, we'll find out how they all compare within about a month, I guess.

50
EOS Bodies / Re: 7D MkII RAW sample images
« on: October 15, 2014, 10:46:33 PM »
Blotchy, scratchy, lacking in color fidelity. :(

Not sure how one can tell color fidelity from those images. After all, there is WB adjustments in RAW conversion etc.

Blotchy, scratchy... Are we sure Nikon D7100 APS-C sensor won't show the same limitations at high ISO in a side-by-side comparison?


Look at the shaded side of the pushed bar. Poor color rendition, it's got that red-weighted color blotching and mottling, and the noise levels are very high. And those are downsampled as well. For a downsampled image, that's not very good.

51
EOS Bodies / Re: Multilayer Sensors are Coming From Canon [CR2]
« on: October 15, 2014, 10:19:51 PM »
Different words, but close to what I was saying.... (RAW data is NOT highly interdependent)

...

RAW to JPG - parallel process. The more cores the better.

...

In theory, using a GPU with multiple cores (There are NVidia chips with 512 CUDA cores) will speed up rendering of images.

The raw data is interdependent, but demosaicing the images isn't the hold up in Lightroom for just about anything.  Raw to JPEG is largely irrelevant since turning a raster image into a JPEG is only done for previews and exports, and takes very little time.  Turning demosaiced data into raster data *with all your corrections applied* takes some time and is not highly parallelizable.

Of all the things that are inefficient in LR, the raw processing pipeline is the least.  It's actually pretty efficient.  Now, handling huge numbers of previews and putting them up in a grid, doing the resizing, scrolling them, adding the metadata and other badges, interfacing to the database, saving metadata to files and to the database, updating previews and preview thumbs, handling the user interface, etc., now those are things that LR could do a lot better.  The CR pipeline is already pretty good and largely not a holdup for most things.


It's possible to put more than simple pixel processing onto GPUs these days. That's where the term GPGPU came from, General Purpose GPU. That's why the supercomputers of today are really just massive numbers of GPUs configured in parallel, to hyperparallelize the hyperperallelism. It's possible to rewrite Lightroom to operate primarily off the GPU. You could solve all the performance problems. Most GPUs have at least a gig of memory these days, and even midrange ones have as much as three gigs. That much memory could be used to cache a lot of previews. There is a direct and ultra high speed pipeline between GPU memory and system memory, allowing massive amounts of information to be paged in on demand...and if that information is images, all the better, as it's optimized for that.


Processing a RAW...all of it, not just the demosaicing but the entire render pipeline, can easily be handled by pixel shaders. There is plenty of lag in Lightroom in the develop module when I run Lightroom full screen on my 30" CinemaDisplay. I have an extremely powerful system, an overclocked i7 4930K with 16Gb of high speed, low timing ram, and a pair of 4Gb 760's running in SLI. It's a massive amount of computing power. LR should be able to handle rendering a full-screen full detail image off a RAW at 30fps...it can barely handle 12fps (and that's with a D III 22.3mp RAW). A GPU would make it a no-brainer to achieve at least 30fps performance.


As I said before, it would probably take a rewrite of ACR. I don't doubt the current author that ACR, as it is currently written, couldn't benefit from a GPU. They would have to redesign it to take advantage of a GPU's parallelism. I don't think it's just a patch to do that...it would be a massive overhaul at the very least, if not a total rewrite. I still think it is not only valuable...it'll probably be necessary in the future if pixel counts keep increasing. General purpose CPUs aren't good at massively parallel processing. They have some parallelism, but it pales in comparison to what GPUs can do (especially when you use two or three or four of them together.)


And with that, I'm out.

52
Landscape / Re: Fall colours
« on: October 15, 2014, 10:08:58 PM »
Contrast


My Autumn Fire Maple, half-transitioned to it's brilliant, fiery red...colorful leaves framed against a backdrop of still-green leaves.



53
EOS Bodies / Re: 7D MkII RAW sample images
« on: October 15, 2014, 10:02:16 PM »
Maybe the fellows over at DPR don't look at the files they are converting. Maybe acr is just that bad. Maybe they just want to see if anybody is awake? Those are the worst raw conversions I have seen in a long time


Hmm. Looks about as "good" as the 5D III, just without the banding. :\ Blotchy, scratchy, lacking in color fidelity. :(

54
Animal Kingdom / Re: Show your Bird Portraits
« on: October 15, 2014, 09:54:07 PM »
Blue Jays and Peanuts - The Fall Fiesta
...

Great shots, jrista!
Also interesting to see what your setup looks like, and how you lure them to come close. If you haven't tried it I can recommend finding various calls/song on Xeno-Canto (http://www.xeno-canto.org/explore?query=Blue+Jay) - as long as it's not during breeding season playback is often ok.


I have a lot of calls and songs on my phone, with the digital Sibley Bird Guide. I think I have audio for every bird that visits North America. The app is fully preloaded as well, so I can play bird calls anywhere, without an internet connection.

55
EOS Bodies / Re: Multilayer Sensors are Coming From Canon [CR2]
« on: October 15, 2014, 09:38:33 PM »
I've been curious for some time why Lightroom doesn't make extensive use of the capabilities of my video cards...if games can render vastly more complex scenes 60 to 120 times per second using a GPU, Lightroom should be able to do what it does on a 5-layer RAW quicker than it renders a bayer RAW now.

Agreed.  DxO Optics Pro used to be rather slow at displaying images at 100% on my Mac, and even filmstrip thumbnails weren't very fast.  A version back (IIRC), they added GPU acceleration and it sped the rendering up significantly.

The guy that writes the Camera Raw code says GPU acceleration would help very little with the Camera Raw pipeline.


I honestly have a very hard time believing that. There is no way the current code is as parallel as it could be when run on a GPU. CPU's simply cannot achieve that kind of parallelism. I wouldn't be surprised if they had to completely rewrite the ACR pipeline to properly take advantage of GPU power, but I think they should do that anyway, and build in support for pipeline-level plugins so third parties could add things people have been asking for since v2 was released...like debanding support, or AF point overlays, etc.

For creating a RAW file in the camera, it is doubtful that GPUs would accelerate the process. Creating the RAW file is a read/dump process with very little (if any) processing being done. It is basicly read from the sensor as fast as you can and dump to the buffer....


I wasn't talking about creating RAW images in the camera. I was talking about rendering RAW images to a computer.


That said, CP-ADC is effectively a means of hyperparallelizing the most critical processing done in-camera. Sony has one ADC per pixel column, vs. Canon's 8 or 16 ADCs per output channel. A patent linked here recently described a means of integrating one ADC per 2x2 pixel group, with 4 processing channels per ADC for what was effectively per-pixel ADC.


Move the DSP either onto the sensor die, or at least as part of a system-on-chip package, make parts of it column-parallel, and you can gain even more parallelism.


Creating a Jpg out of the RAW file is a completely different story... Processing that RAW file is a massively parallel operation... the image is typically broken up into 8x8 blocks and run through the jpg compression engine... then groups of blocks are run through the compression engine... and so on until the whole image is done. The 18Mpixel sensor makes an 5184x3456 image... and that makes 279,936 blocks to compress on the first pass, 4374 blocks on the second pass, and 68 blocks to finish off on the third pass..... Since it is essentially the same sequence of operations on each block, parallel cores on a GPU can speed things up by well over a magnitude....


Same thing holds true for rendering images in software to display on the screen or to create print files...


Aye. It wouldn't matter if you were rendering to JPEG or simply rendering to some kind of viewport buffer. Each pixel can be independently processed. Since you have millions of pixels, and each one is processed the same, you can write very little code, and run it on a GPU which is explicitly designed to hyperparallelize pixel processing. You would simply be executing pixel shaders instead of standard CPU code. With the modern architectures of GPUs, you can make highly efficient use of the resources available.

56
EOS Bodies / Re: Multilayer Sensors are Coming From Canon [CR2]
« on: October 15, 2014, 09:29:29 PM »
I've been curious for some time why Lightroom doesn't make extensive use of the capabilities of my video cards...if games can render vastly more complex scenes 60 to 120 times per second using a GPU, Lightroom should be able to do what it does on a 5-layer RAW quicker than it renders a bayer RAW now.

Agreed.  DxO Optics Pro used to be rather slow at displaying images at 100% on my Mac, and even filmstrip thumbnails weren't very fast.  A version back (IIRC), they added GPU acceleration and it sped the rendering up significantly.

The guy that writes the Camera Raw code says GPU acceleration would help very little with the Camera Raw pipeline.


I honestly have a very hard time believing that. There is no way the current code is as parallel as it could be when run on a GPU. CPU's simply cannot achieve that kind of parallelism. I wouldn't be surprised if they had to completely rewrite the ACR pipeline to properly take advantage of GPU power, but I think they should do that anyway, and build in support for pipeline-level plugins so third parties could add things people have been asking for since v2 was released...like debanding support, or AF point overlays, etc.

So, you know more than the guy that's writing the code?  Kind of arrogant, don't you think?


I write heavily parallelized and highly threaded code for a living. I have been for nearly two decades. I think I have the background knowledge to know.


Will you guys knock it off with this crap? I've had enough.

57
Animal Kingdom / Re: Show your Bird Portraits
« on: October 15, 2014, 09:28:13 PM »
Blue Jays and Peanuts - The Fall Fiesta


Every fall, the Blue Jays return. Noisy, obnoxious, and incredibly beautiful, these birds seem like they belong in the rainforests of Papua New Guinea with all their colorful friends. They are also incredibly intelligent birds, extremely clever in finding and rooting out food, and particularly sneaky bastards. ;) I've spent the last couple of years "training" the Blue Jays that frequent my yard. They come when I play back Blue Jay calls from my WP8 Sibley guide, come when I tap peanuts on my deck, and seem to enjoy the game of "Grab the peanut before a photograph is made!"


The Scrub Jays are a little easier to capture photos of, they are a little more aggressive with the Blue Jays, and tend to get all the peanuts. This year, I managed to lure in a couple Blues, and with some a clever setup, captured a number of wonderful shots. There is mere moments to frame, focus, and shoot before they are gone. The 5D III's slower frame rate makes getting the perfect moment a little more difficult, however it's larger frame makes for a much more pleasing background.


Canon EOS 5D Mark III
Canon EF 600mm f/4 L II
Gitzo GT3532LS w/ Jobu Pro 2 Gimbal











Here are some shots of the setup used to get these images:








While I was snapping shots of the setup, my quarry showed up again, and grabbed a little more bait. :D



58
EOS Bodies / Re: Multilayer Sensors are Coming From Canon [CR2]
« on: October 15, 2014, 08:03:40 PM »
I've been curious for some time why Lightroom doesn't make extensive use of the capabilities of my video cards...if games can render vastly more complex scenes 60 to 120 times per second using a GPU, Lightroom should be able to do what it does on a 5-layer RAW quicker than it renders a bayer RAW now.

Agreed.  DxO Optics Pro used to be rather slow at displaying images at 100% on my Mac, and even filmstrip thumbnails weren't very fast.  A version back (IIRC), they added GPU acceleration and it sped the rendering up significantly.

The guy that writes the Camera Raw code says GPU acceleration would help very little with the Camera Raw pipeline.


I honestly have a very hard time believing that. There is no way the current code is as parallel as it could be when run on a GPU. CPU's simply cannot achieve that kind of parallelism. I wouldn't be surprised if they had to completely rewrite the ACR pipeline to properly take advantage of GPU power, but I think they should do that anyway, and build in support for pipeline-level plugins so third parties could add things people have been asking for since v2 was released...like debanding support, or AF point overlays, etc.

59
EOS Bodies / Re: Multilayer Sensors are Coming From Canon [CR2]
« on: October 15, 2014, 07:11:06 PM »
Basically, if your computer is barely tolerable now, it might be intolerable with a multilayer sensor.  In practice, though, the apps will probably evolve to take better advantage of multiple cores, and this will probably make the difference moot.


They should really be evolving to take advantage of GPUs. GPUs were designed to do this kind of stuff, and do it wicked-fast. They also have gobs of their own memory, so you wouldn't necessarily have to waste as much system memory on image rendering. Just about every computer has a GPU of some kind these days...either integrated into the CPU, or as an add-on card. Even laptops have dedicated GPUs.


I've been curious for some time why Lightroom doesn't make extensive use of the capabilities of my video cards...if games can render vastly more complex scenes 60 to 120 times per second using a GPU, Lightroom should be able to do what it does on a 5-layer RAW quicker than it renders a bayer RAW now.

60
EOS Bodies / Re: Patent: Variable Diffusion Focusing Screen
« on: October 15, 2014, 05:14:08 PM »
Cool stuff! I wonder if this would work in conjunction with Canon's existing transmissive LCD and all the visual cues and feedback available in their current OVFs.

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