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Messages - poias

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91
EOS Bodies / Re: Idea for Canon?
« on: May 04, 2012, 12:48:23 AM »
And MF sensors are decade old technology. Imagine if they have similar tech to modern FF CMOS sensors. They would have 18 stop DR and usable 1million ISO.

92
EOS Bodies / Re: Idea for Canon?
« on: May 04, 2012, 12:43:47 AM »
Canon, like other sensor makes, are constantly trying to improve. Trying and achieving are two different things, though. And achieving and marketing are two separate things on top of that. Canon might have the most bad-ass DR sensor that costs tens of thousands of dollars. Or, they don't give a damn about DR, because people buy their cameras anyway. Or, they just can't achieve the DR, despite several tries. Who knows? The only way they will deliver  is when its customers demand it. Most Canon customers don't give a damn about DR.

93
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon did everything it could in 5D3
« on: April 30, 2012, 04:43:53 PM »
I'm sorry, I don't buy this theory for a nanosecond.

I think the most likely reason that the 5D3 has the specification it has is that it is designed for wedding and event photographers. If you look at this market, the price, image quality and framerate is pretty well perfect, from what I understand.

Later in the year, likely a studio camera will come out with high MP, lower frame rate, perhaps worse autofocus.

For those with less cash (enthusiasts and amateurs), there is the 5D mk 2.

Nikon is a smaller company who don't have the resources of Canon, which is why they have to buy in sensors. Canon have already proven in the 7D sensor that they can make high density excellent sensors, and even allowing for lower yield of the larger die (dye?) it is still feasible to produce circa 50MP sensors.

Canon produce cameras for markets, in order to make money.

Is this annoying to some? Sure, but don't mistake it for incompetence. Head over to bythom.com to read about how Nikon create great cameras, and then cannot make anywhere near enough lenses OR bodies to satisfy demand - now THAT my friend is incompetence...

"I've noted many times, supply is not meeting demand for many items, and that's a dangerous proposition as you always leak sales to competitors when that happens." - Tom Hogan...

So you don't believe that Canon is severely lagging behind (or incompetent, to use your terminology) in sensor technology? Even "excellent" 7D's IQ is horrible. Basically, Canon is lacking in sensor, be it incompetence or indifference.

But I agree that Nikon cannot keep up with the demand, so it could be due to a horrible supply chain (incompetence) and/or unexpected demand (circumstantial). We are living proof of that -- 3 D4 shipped, but 5 D800/D800e no clue at all.

94
EOS Bodies / Canon did everything it could in 5D3
« on: April 30, 2012, 02:38:10 PM »
I sincerely believe that Canon did everything it could to 5D3. Its AF is dramatically improved, its body is improved, and its shooting is improved. There is no question that if Canon had improved sensor, they would have made it part of 5D3. So, if/when Canon has a modern sensor, it will make it part of 5D4 or 5D5.

Canon just does not have a modern sensor or technology for the price point, thus 5D3 had to be content with 5D2 sensor.

That above was our conclusion and the factor in not completely switching to Nikon. We will hang on to our Canon gears (lenses and flashes mostly) for a year or two.


95
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon is getting owned in sensor technology
« on: April 19, 2012, 03:33:20 PM »
Quote
For some people here, the facts make them uncomfortable

Make gearheads uncomfortable.
Not me.
My eyes tell me enough.
No need for numbers.

-----
www.wildlife-photos.net
www.scramble.nl
www.planepix.nl

If not for "gearheads" (people looking for better technology), you would be painting the scenaries/portraits with a brush, rather than click a button and instantaneously imprint it onto a sensor/film.  ::)

96
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon is getting owned in sensor technology
« on: April 19, 2012, 03:23:20 PM »
For some people here, the facts make them uncomfortable. Sensor performance is what it is. Nikon has taken over Canon long time ago. Now, the gap is even widening. Canon has to innovate, especially in their sensor technology.

Canon's JPG technology might allow them to squeeze every bit of potential from their archaic technology, but that will leave them behind. The intent of my post was to reflect that fact. Some people get emotionally insecure when introduced with the fact. Denial and red herring are not going to solve Canon's inability to innovate their technology. Canon customers should demand more.

97
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon is getting owned in sensor technology
« on: April 19, 2012, 12:25:50 PM »
Quote
statistics lie all day.. it´s a matter how you test.

So, are you saying that DxO is wrong?  ::) You must know better than professional testers.  :P

Hmmm... give me funding so I can run my tests and I will give you whatever scores you would like... just saying.

5 stages of grief. The first stage is denial.

98
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon is getting owned in sensor technology
« on: April 19, 2012, 12:22:25 PM »
Regardless of megapixels. What I actually found more interesting is the difference in IQ of 5d2 and 5d3 is rather small, and you can't really argue with megapixels here.

The dynamic range has practically stayed identical. Actually it went down by ~0.12 EV in the lower ISO range and improved only slightly in the high ISO range. The highest acceptable ISO performance how DxO defines it went from 1815 to 2293. That's certainly not 2 stops as canon has been touting. The 18% SNR is up by something like 1.5dB. Not a whole lot. Color depth has got something like a 1.3% improvement...

Ah, those statistics! You might upset some people around here with those facts.

99
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon is getting owned in sensor technology
« on: April 19, 2012, 12:20:07 PM »
YEs, you were around to see the horrible images nikons produced in 2000 and you were around to see why almost everyone chose Canon back then.

Now, that may be reversing. Canon's engineering is getting a beating. May be they have some awesome secret technology ready to be unveiled. But their publicly available sensors are pretty much rehash of 2005.

100
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon is getting owned in sensor technology
« on: April 19, 2012, 12:16:28 PM »
Sour grapes?  Really?  I have no quams on post production and have been doing photoshop work before photoshop really became mainstream, BUT, to say that you have to do photoshop work JUST to get an image with pop, meh... and once you do get that pop, most the DR cancels out anyways.  Both cameras have it's place...  Then again to to go black and white with no shades of gray, with your conclusion of the sensor, high ISO, canon owns nikon, in FPS, canon owns nikon, in AF points (total and cross) canon owns nikon, in movie mode quality, canon owns nikon.  Both cameras have their place in the market place..  It's not as black and white as you think my friend. 


Lets just say that with D800 and its clearly SUPERIOR DR, you can process to get the pop, or whatever you like. With 5Diii, you are screwed if your exposure is not perfect. D800 gives you much more latitude. No doubt, based on empirical evidence.

Quote
statistics lie all day.. it´s a matter how you test.

So, are you saying that DxO is wrong?  ::) You must know better than professional testers.  :P

101
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon is getting owned in sensor technology
« on: April 19, 2012, 12:11:03 PM »
i don´t think they have made it easyer for average joe.

to fully understand the score you have to know what they are testing.

because DXO is based on resized images and noise threshold.
it´s a normalized test.

but then why buy a 36 MP camera if you normalize to a lower resolution?
because you can resample an image?
well yes you can resample to 8MP.... but that is not why i would buy a 36MP camera.

Resize to 8mpx, upsize to 36mpx, D800 has clearly better sensor. I guess they resize to 8mpx for normalization, as you mentioned.


Quote
the DXO score is only a true representation if you resample/normalize the RAW image.

don´t get me wrong i think the DXO test IS usefull in some way.. just not in the way most interpret it.

True, DxO score is useful only if you shoot RAW. For exclusive JPG shooters and snapshot shooters, it is pretty much useless. The idea here is the sensor capability, i.e. RAW. Understood that many do not shoot RAW for various reasons.

102
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon is getting owned in sensor technology
« on: April 19, 2012, 11:55:28 AM »
i wonder how many retards will buy a D800 for sports based on the DXO test.  :D

They will have to be damn rich retards to buy a $3000 high mpx camera solely for sports. ;)


Quote
DXOmark is not for common people.. it´s for engineers who know what DXO is testing.
the stupid naming of the categorys (SPORTS) don´t help either.

90% of all visitors of DXOmark have NO clue how DXO is measuring sensor performance.
and from the 10% who know, only half understand why they measure that way.

General public may not know about DxO techniques, but they don't have to. The DxO engineers certainly do and they have made it easier for the public by categorizing performances along the categories. Be in complete denial and attack the messenger (DxO).

Numbers don't lie:


Neither should you.

103
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon is getting owned in sensor technology
« on: April 19, 2012, 11:31:33 AM »
You do have a point. There are other things beside a sensor, and Canon is certainly no slouch in FPS, AF, processing, video, and a lot of other qualities. And lenses! In fact, they are better in most of those areas, that is why they are competing. The fact still remains that their sensor is s##t and will only cause their cameras to produce not to their potential.

Imagine a D800-like sensor on the 5Diii body! *drools*

Yep... and i imagine crappy ISO performance, I imagine the extra work and WB issues that is popping up with the D800 just to get the image in the same realm of the 5d3 in terms of overall color, pop and effect, and imagine all the extra HD's and card needed to support the files....  Uhhh  no thanks...  I can see where some styles and some forms of photography would benefit, but it is not the all to be all...  Canon is to old slide film as nikon is the negative film... The slides just had better pop, better and vibrant colors, more "wow" factor...  Negatives COULD have more latitude but in the end, a lot more work/care was needed to get negatives in print to get remotely close to the slide image.  The same is being proven true with D800 files and the 5d3 files...

That is just sour grapes talking. The "pop" you talk about with 5Diii is its lack of DR. High DR images have flatter look and you can post-process (the horror!) to make it fit your levels. D800 has better detail, better DR, and better color, all critical to a technical image quality.

Lets face it, 5Diii's sensor is no better than 5Dii's. 5Diii has improved on AF and processing, though. But the heart of the image is its sensor, which is sorely lacking.

May be Canon needs to stop listening to "everything is fine" crowd and innovate, perhaps? ;)

104
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon is getting owned in sensor technology
« on: April 19, 2012, 11:07:38 AM »
Okay, we can cry bias and be in complete denial, but Canon has inferior sensor from the early 2000! Their tech is a decade behind than Nikon. When will they start accepting the fact and invest a little more? It used to be Canon could at least claim "we have high megapixels", but now they can only claim "DXO is biased".

We need competition, otherwise Nikon will become stagnant, just like Canon has become. Sorry for the rant, not trying to rub salt on our collective Canon wounds.

So you're saying that decade old technology is still competing with Nikon's current technology? There's more to a camera system than the sensor believe it or not, and Canon is doing a better job at building a well rounded, system that works very well in many situations.

You do have a point. There are other things beside a sensor, and Canon is certainly no slouch in FPS, AF, processing, video, and a lot of other qualities. And lenses! In fact, they are better in most of those areas, that is why they are competing. The fact still remains that their sensor is s##t and will only cause their cameras to produce not to their potential.

Imagine a D800-like sensor on the 5Diii body! *drools*

105
EOS Bodies / Canon is getting owned in sensor technology
« on: April 19, 2012, 10:55:21 AM »
Okay, we can cry bias and be in complete denial, but Canon has inferior sensor from the early 2000! Their tech is a decade behind than Nikon. When will they start accepting the fact and invest a little more? It used to be Canon could at least claim "we have high megapixels", but now they can only claim "DXO is biased".

We need competition, otherwise Nikon will become stagnant, just like Canon has become. Sorry for the rant, not trying to rub salt on our collective Canon wounds.

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