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Messages - Rocky

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EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« on: November 08, 2010, 12:01:33 PM »


With what authority do you make that claim?

With what authority do you make that claim?

Let me ask you something, why do you make posts like this?

You back up none of your assertions with facts nor URLs pointing to facts.

Who gave you the authority to write such a mean post????

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« on: November 08, 2010, 11:39:57 AM »

Ummmm, I don't think that anyone else but you is thinking that Sony's DSLR with the APS-C sensor is the type of mirror-less camera that this thread is about.

Can you name an APS-C mirrorless  that can challenge  ALL my 6 points???  My #1 point is also a questioon, based on what I have seen on the cruise ships in the last few months. I see a lot of DSLR but only  ONE Sony mirroless.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« on: November 08, 2010, 01:43:15 AM »
Dilbert, If you think my all 6 points are all wrong, you are welcome to prove that I am wrong.  You do not  say some one is wrong until you can prove him wrong. That is just simple good citizenship. if you do not have it I feel sorry for you.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« on: November 08, 2010, 01:28:45 AM »
I do not need to quote URL on every statement  that I have made. Did you look at  the Sony APS-C mirrorless. a blind man can see how big the lens is. Will you put it in you coat pocket?? Read the Image Resources test. You will find out the focusing speed is about 0.5 second. Look at the weight with the lens and compare it with the XSi with  the kit lens. Compare the price of the two while you are at it.  as for camera bag. Will you dangle a camera at you chest all the time without any protection???  i do not need any authority, just common sense.

If you want to pick on me on any statement, go ahead, make my day. I know you got nothing better to do. So it will just be my entertainment.  So go ahead and be a court jester and entertain me.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« on: November 07, 2010, 09:39:29 PM »
I think the whole mirrorless camera thing caught Canon sleeping,
I don't think making a whole new line of lenses would stop canon,
Not making a return on investment would.
Canon is already 2 generations behind, waiting till 2012 will put them at least 1 more behind. I sure hope they release one next year.

May be Canon is smart to stay away from mirrorless for a while for the following reason.
1. There are 6 or 7 APS-C mirrorless camera out there that generates a lot of attention. But are they really selling well? Are they making money, after the the R & D cost???
2. None of them is really coat pocketable with the lens.
3. Focusing speed is terrible, even compare to the entry  DSLR.
4. Weight saving is also minimal, compared to entry level DSLR.
5. Cost is comparable to entry level DSLR.
6. You will need a camera bag for either Mirrorless or DSLR.
7. May be Canon is waiting for a technology breakthrough or trying to improve the existing technology.

I actually will like to have a mirrorless camera with the following:
1. APS-C sensor with even explosure all the way to the corner. Canon should get  the  offset micro mirror technology from Leica plus the software adjustment.
2. Focusing time equals to the existing DSLR. If it cannot be done, then Canon should have lenses that have  fine manual focusing with depth of field scale like the lenses in the old film days. With these, we can use the zone focusing technique and have NO focusing delay.
3. Some prime pancake lens to make the camera really coat pocketable.
4. The camera body design should be taken a page from the Fuji mirrorless (start from ground up, make it small and still comfortable in the hand, and use classic range finder camera as a model. Also canon should also get the hybrid view finder from Fuji).
If such a camera exist, I will pay $2000 for it. It sure beats the $7000 price tag of the Leica M9.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« on: November 06, 2010, 08:40:16 PM »
May be canon is avoiding the mirrorless for the following reasons:
1. In order to make it coat pocketable ,It need to come up with a new set of lenses. It will be a big expense for canon.
2. In order to do it right, the sensor must be at least APS-C size.  Couples with a thin body, it will have the Dark-Corner problem without infringing into the pattern by Sony and Leica. The best that Canon can do is to use the software solution.
3. Auto focusing time is more than twice the DSLR, based on existing technology.
4. The price of mirrorless may be higher than the entry level DSLR. Most people given a choice will ends up with a DSLR instead of a mirrorless.
5. Canon already has both G12 and S95, both are regarded as the best "pocketable camera.
6. Mirrorless with a good zoom lens will not be pocketable anyway.

EOS Bodies / Re: T2i Replacement?
« on: November 04, 2010, 09:43:54 PM »
Are the days of the entry level DSLR numbered?

Entry level DSLR will be around for quite a while. Not that many people will spend upward of $1600 for a camera body. Just look at the number of EF-S that Canon have introduced in the last couple years, you can be assured that APS-C sensor will be around for awhile also. One of the major advantage of any DSLR is the shutter lag time. They are down to about 1/6 of a second or less. The mirrorless large sensor camera are having shutter lag of at least twice as that. This could mean that you can miss the"Kodak Moment" easily.


Regarding a pro pool, I have a feeling amateurs are much more touchy about their gear than pros. A minute scratch on the front lens of no consequence for the IQ would in general not bother a pro while an amateur with a personal attachment to the lens would be devastated. In general, I say, but I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions on both sides.
Totally agree,  Pros treat their camera and lens as tools. They do not baby their tools. Amateur treat their gears as toys. They are a lot more sensitive about their toys.

EOS Bodies / Re: *UPDATE* 1Ds Mark IV Feature
« on: November 01, 2010, 02:10:14 PM »
I have to add something to my post:

Phase One does it this way (pdf). They practically do an option c) which is: separating green from red and blue into two overlapping "layers" to reduce the gaps in pixel density and as a result can use method a slightly different method a) to bin the pixels. Considering, that the pixel-density of a fullframe-sensor at 45mp would be at least double as high as on a medium-format p45+ sensor, so it might even be possible to use this method whithout rotating the green-layer.

Another Example of how it could be done is shown by fuji's exr technics. Here it's basically another arrangement of the color-array to do 1:2 binning called pixel fusion. The article linked explains it very well.

I guess at the end, the only one who can give a real answer on this issue is canon itself - but even regarding registered patents by canon does not really deliver any clear answer at the current time.

Thanks. These are the best information that I have ever run into. So far only Fuji and Phase one officially claim the pixel binning. The Panansonic webcam is a totally different animal. the phase one article  brings out some very interesting point. when doing a 4 to one pixel binning,the resolution actually decreased to by a factor of 16, due to the over lapping of the binned super pixel. Phase one does not claim the resolution factor. It just says better than 16. From my point of view. Fuji sensor is deigned to be pixel binning. Phase one is kind of a stop-gap.  The other point and shoot  low light setting may be nothing more than the downsizing of the picture to average out the noise for the pixel peeper to make the picture looks good. Let us face the fact. Pixel binning is a BIG deal. I doubt that Canon or any other camera maker will hind such a BIG selling point from the public.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 5DmkIII
« on: November 01, 2010, 12:28:20 PM »

I was quite intrigued by the post stating that Nikon has better sensor technology. I currently own a 40D (and I do love it), but my (lucky) girlfriend owns a Nikon D3, and aside from it being a full 35mm sensor, I just think the images that are shot on that seem so much sharper, more in focus, something. It's an intangible that I've been unable to properly express.

Please check your sharpness setting. 40D is well known to be soft at standard setting (sharpness at 3). try to set it at 4. You may change your opinion on the 40D.

EOS Bodies / Re: *UPDATE* 1Ds Mark IV Feature
« on: October 20, 2010, 12:23:42 PM »

Your logic is flawed on many levels.  First of all, some P&S do have various forms of binning and have for years.. so ya, it's doable.  Problem is the SLR market place is a different beast.  Most magazines, stock photo places and clients will not accept a 4.5MP image in this day and age.  It just doesn't have what they need in terms of workable resolution.  IMHO 9MP is enough.

Also I'm not sure what you mean overlapping the other two color...

Can you name a P&S that have pixel binning? (I am not talking about down sizing after DSP). It should be a big deal for the P&S. I am surprised that Nobody ever advertised it.  If you pick 4 pixel with the same color, there are other 2 color in between the 4 pixels. So if you bin the 4 into one. The other color also will be binned. so all the 4 pixel of the same color square are over lapping each other.

EOS Bodies / Re: *UPDATE* 1Ds Mark IV Feature
« on: October 19, 2010, 08:20:55 PM »
Maybe we should have a contest: Who is your favorite unreal photographer?


ok... something more serious...

a typical bayer pattern would look like this:

so binning for a Bayer sensor would mean, binning pixel-clusters of 2x2 resulting in 4x4 binned-clusters rather than real pixel-binning which would only be possible in similar-to-foveon-type-sensors.

Correct.. which is what I keep calling (rightly or wrongly) 4:1 binning.  A 36MP sensor would bin down to 9MP.  This is why I don't *not* believe the binning.  9MP in very low light would probably be sufficient detail if it was super clean.  Now that the MP count is high enough to support 4:1 I think it's a viable technology.

If you bin the 4 pixel from the same color,you will have a big effect on the sharpness. because the binned pixel will be over lapping the other 2 color. You will end up a blurry picture. Let us face it, if the binning is so easy, All camera manufacturer could have done it.  Just remember that 3 MP is good for 8X10.  Up to 15 years ago, "professional "digital camera is only 2 MP.  So If binning is that easy, they could have given us a 2 stop extra sensitivity and less noise picture at 4.5 MP from a 18 Mp sensor. If it was true. I would take it anytime for the low light situation.

EOS Bodies / Re: 1Ds Mark IV Feature
« on: October 19, 2010, 11:58:47 AM »
Bayer sensor is 2 green, 1 red and 1 blue as a group. How can you bin 3 color in 4 pixels ???  People tends to confuse down sizing with pixel binning.

Simple - you average the output of the two green pixels.
How about the red and the blue?? you cannot just average  one color without doing anything to the other 2 color.

EOS Bodies / Re: 1Ds Mark IV Feature
« on: October 19, 2010, 11:04:28 AM »
Proper pixel binning has huge ramifications for video.

Also huge for stills, especially with a high pixel count sensor.

It means massive sensitivity (ISO) at low noise.
PIXEL BINNING is not possible to be done at "raw" level for Bayer sensor. No camera maker dare to mention "pixel binning" except Sigma(they are using Foveon sensor). Bayer sensor is 2 green, 1 red and 1 blue as a group. How can you bin 3 color in 4 pixels ???  People tends to confuse down sizing with pixel binning.

EOS Bodies / Re: 1Ds Mark IV Feature
« on: October 19, 2010, 01:04:40 AM »
A 35MP FF sensor is about the equivalent of a 13.6 MP APS C sensor.  I'm pretty sure there is no problem with almost all, if not all resolving a sensor like this.
Almost all consumer  grade lens from Canon will run into problem at FF with 35MP. Remember, with APS-C sensor, we are only using the middle of the image field (best performance area)of the lens. With FF we  are using the full frame (image field) of the lens. Even some L zoom lens will get into trouble for that. just look into lens test reports from slrgears.com. Some lens with very good result in APS-C sensor becomes unacceptable in the FF sensor.

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