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Messages - EchoLocation

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I still don't understand who these full frame mirorrless cameras are aimed at, aside from a hobbyist with a lot of money to burn.

-Average consumer, it is too expensive
-Camera-oriented gadget freak, would probably rather have a cameraphone like the Lumia 1020
-Compact camera fan, the zoom lenses are too big to truck around - all these pics don't look much smaller than a 6D w/ lens.
-Professional, would rather have a real DSLR with viewfinder through lens, more physical buttons, big lens selection, bigger body to grip

So what is left for this camera? Hobbyists with a lot of cash?  I guess that is the market they are going for.
I bought one. i'm a 32 year old who has been in to photography since learning in a darkroom in the early 90's with my mom's old Minolta.
For years, i was dissatisfied with digital cameras because of their poor image quality and generally stayed away. In 2008 I bought a top of the line Sony Cyber Shot for a 3 month backpacking trip to South America. In 2010 I was in Hong Kong traveling and finally bought a Canon DSLR. I was excited to have better image quality. i was never happy with APS-C, the crop factor, and always wanted the best low light abilities. I traveled for about 10 months using the 550D and taking tons of photos.
 After I finished traveling I wanted something to better suit my 24-105 lens, so I traded up to a used 5DC but it always seemed a little antiquated(terrible AF and back screen.)
So, I bought a used D700 and 24-70 2.8 for the AF and image quality. It was simply amazing, but after traveling in Japan for a month last year, my shoulders and back were sore every day from hanging 5 pounds around my neck and shoulders for 8 to 10 hours a day of walking around and sightseeing. Additionally, I like to carry a camera in my bag and when I walk to my work, or come home I like to take some pictures. This is at night and poor image quality annoys me, but my D700 took up my WHOLE backpack and made it a chore to carry, the opposite of fun.
So, I have been eagerly awaiting something that offers top of the line image quality, but in a size that doesn't hurt my shoulders and back. Something that is manageable.
Sure, my D700 is fantastic, and If I had to have the best chance of getting the picture, i'd use that(mostly because of the AF and great ergonomics), but, I simply never carried it in my bag, so I was never able to use it.
If I go to local game, or I just want to go out for a few hour and shoot some pictures, I can use my D700 no problem. but for carrying daily in my backpack, backpacking, hiking, or for my wife, the a7 is 1000x times better.
I don't make money on my photos... but I do enjoy doing it. And I could never say I enjoyed carrying my D700 around.
i bought my a7 last week. I got a small very high quality case for it and it now sits in my backpack every day.
When I go to work, or go out, I ALWAYS have it now. I don't even notice it's in my bag.
So now, photography can be a fun hobby for me again, instead of a (literally) pain in the neck, back and shoulders.

And, this is saying nothing about how AWESOME the a7 is at manual focusing. This is something I loved about my early days but had totally lost using DSLRs.  I Love slowing down a little bit, composing my shots, using focus peaking and magnification and focusing myself! Despite it's small size, the a7 does have all the manual controls, knobs and buttons of a normal DSLR. The layout and programmable buttons are far easier and more useful to me than the D700 or 5DC. The Sony a7 is the closest thing to the old school shooting experience I have seen outside of the Leica.

In all, I'd say the a7 is for anyone who appreciates having absolute top image quality but doesn't want to carry a huge DSLR. This could be anyone.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« on: December 04, 2013, 10:08:58 PM »
I'm not saying that Canon needs to dump the 18mp sensor because of external competition. I'm saying they need to dump it because they themselves already have better technology, and there is absolutely no reason not to utilize the 20mp DPAF sensor in the EOS-M2. I don't believe it would cannibalize 70D sales at all...different class of camera.

No reason that you know of...   For example, what if the more complicated circuit printing results in a higher QC failure rate?  That might raise the production cost of the sensor to the point where it is not cost-effective to put in a camera body that may end up selling for $300.

Also, maybe to you it's just "the same old 18 MP sensor."  But to Canon, it's a "new" sensor that to date has only been used in one prior camera body – the SL1/100D.  Undoubtedly, Canon incurred development costs for Hybrid CMOS AF II, and it is quite likely that the SL1 alone is not sufficient to recoup those costs to yield a return on that investment.

I'm not saying you're wrong to suggest that Canon should put their latest and greatest technology into their products, I'm just pointing out practical reasons why they may not have done so in this case.
Neuro, come on.... are you really still standing up for Canon and their 18mp sensor?
I was in to DSLR's for about 5 years(not anymore, just got my a7!) and during that entire 4 year span of time Canon released many new APS-C cameras from the 7D to the T2i, to the 60D, etc, etc, etc...
To suggest that Canon use a different sensor is not to demand that they put their latest and greatest of everything in to every camera release. It's simply to suggest that if we are expected to care about a new release, maybe they should do something a little different. Just slapping a new badge and Wifi in something, and calling it a new release is not enough to get me excited. yes, it has kept Canon as the leader in DSLR sales.
But in the eyes of many, Canon is as dull as can be at this point.
I'm done with buying DSLR's. Unless they make one the size of the a7, I will never buy one again. I think many people feel the same. In the 5 years I've been following camera releases, I cant think of any cameras Canon has released that have been really exciting at launch.
In fact, I declined to purchase a refurb 7D in 2011 because I thought it was old(bought a 5DC instead)... now we're at the doorstep of 2014 and we're still in the same place.
At this point, Canon is simply resting on their laurels. They are the market leader and they can sell tons of DSLR's to the masses.
I used to be a big Canon fan, but at this point, there is nothing to be a fan of. I'm tired of DSLR's. What more can they do besides the 5DIII? They are already wayyy too big for serious traveling.
Now Canon simply doesn't release their newer, different products in the US? Ok, so it's just an incremental upgrade, but if so, why didn't they release this camera in June, and a high end M2x now with a viewfinder, flash, and a more pro like feel with better controls.

And please, don't tell me if I want a pro like camera with all the knobs and controls I NEED a DSLR. this is simply not true. I am 6'2" 200lbs, and my a7 fits great in my hands and has a shutter speed, aperture, and ISO dials along with TONS of programmable buttons.
DSLR's are not the future of photography, only the future of professional photography. In the future, people like my mom, aunts, and cousins, all of whom own DSLR's now, will simply buy mirrorless. In fact, most of them are already jealous of the advantages(mostly size) my a7 has over their DSLR's. They are quickly learning that DSLR's are no longer the ticket to the best image quality and they are happy to switch to something smaller and more fun.
Canon should do something to create some excitement and show their willingness to expand beyond DSLR's. Releasing another 18mp sensor that wont be available in the US is doing nothing to do so.

Has this been announced in the US yet?
you think they will finally announce the 11-22mm lens in the US along with this camera?
*update* just saw the latest post... is this really not being announced in the US at all? what is Canon thinking?
are they just quitting? will they have a FF mirrorless coming soon(or ever?) I feel like they are just giving up on trying to do anything besides DSLR's in the US. You would think they might give a little more effort in to developing something for the future.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official
« on: December 03, 2013, 07:00:49 AM »
still no viewfinder or flash? i would have thought they would have made a little more premium type of version by now.
no new lenses at all? what about 24,50, or 85mm primes? I don't particularly care as I am content with the 11-22 and 22mm lenses I have, but you'd think Canon might try to put a little more in to the system besides there miniscule current lens selection.
this seems verrrry similar to the original to me. of course it has faster AF, how could it be any slower?
if this had a flash, I would buy it to replace my eos-m classic when the price goes down to 300 bucks again, but as it is I really have no use for an upgrade.
I'll be using my new Sony a7 95% of the time anyways.

Pricewatch Deals / Re: Cyber Monday Roundup - Continually Updated
« on: December 03, 2013, 03:08:42 AM »
I had no problems downloading Lightroom PC on amazon  US.  This year or last year but I am a prime member and likely addicted to Amazon.  I am currently updating to 5.2 as I type this.
5.2? You're living in the stone age!
I just downloaded Lightroom 5.3 RC(!!!!) after buying the online DL from newegg last night for 80 bucks(China time.)
Spent all morning fiddling with updates, finally got it all set up on my new laptop so I can edit my Sony a7 RAW files. I'm having a blast!
 and I didn't even have to wait for Black Friday to get an a7 and 28-70mm kit along with a Sony 32gb SD card,extra Sony battery and tons of other freebies for 1700 bucks(300 bucks cheaper than the kit alone in the US!) This is one of the only items ever to be cheaper in China than the US!

I found the pre-announcement teaser videos very enticing.  But as soon as I saw a picture of the real thing, my interest dropped to zero.  I do not know who would buy that camera at that price.

This camera is a joke. It's ugly.... way too big and despite being lighter and smaller than almost all DSLR's, looks like a brick.
While it is retro, it is certainly not retro done right.
As people have noted earlier, it should be much more beneficial to manual focusing and the price should be more in line with the features.
NOT giving us video does not make we want to pay out an extra 800 dollars over the D610.
Additionally, while the knobs are nice looking, I believe that modern DSLR controls are easier to use and better ergonomically.
Also, while the pre announcement marketing was great, it built up expectations to high for what the product was actually delivering.
This was a major failure by Nikon.

Canon General / Re: TEN YEARS FROM NOW.
« on: November 26, 2013, 04:40:18 AM »
Yesterday was the day I made the move. I bought the a7 and will soon sell all my DSLR gear. I cannot imagine a reason to go back to DSLR's as long as the weight is nearly double an a7 sized camera and the size is much larger

How much would a 70-200 lens for the a7 weigh and how much smaller would it be?
the Sony FE mount f4 version is pretty similar to Canon's current offering(based on a visual comparison alone.)
That being said, if you read my whole comment you would see that I specifically mention that most pros will still use DSLR's. However, I know about 10-15 people with DSLR's(all amateurs) and only 1 of them has the 70-200(the f4 he bought for 350 bucks on CL) or anything longer(besides those cheap 18-300 superzooms.)
I myself want a small camera with a few small primes for when I travel for extended periods of time and for carrying around daily in my backpack.
If I have to sacrifice ergonomics with long lenses, that I never use, for this, then that is an easy choice to make.
I know for people who regularly use long, heavy lenses this sentiment may be very different, but that is not the majority of DSLR buyers.

Canon General / Re: TEN YEARS FROM NOW.
« on: November 25, 2013, 09:16:55 PM »
2. Mirrorless will follow point and shoot cameras into the abyss of consumer cameras being replaced by camera phones.
I think it will be 100% the opposite. DSLR's or medium format(which will then be easily available in DSLR sized cameras) will still be used by most pro's but by only very serious hobbyists(think Neuro, the guys on this board, etc.)... But nearly all the rebel, 70D, 6D market will be replaced by mirrorless cameras.
Yesterday was the day I made the move. I bought the a7 and will soon sell all my DSLR gear. I cannot imagine a reason to go back to DSLR's as long as the weight is nearly double an a7 sized camera and the size is much larger
I firmly believe this trend will continue.... Just imagine how excited people on this board will be when Canon makes a FF mirroless with good AF. Everyone on here will buy one as a backup, and most wont really need their DSLR anymore.... I don't.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Nikon Shmikon
« on: November 13, 2013, 10:48:07 PM »
Why is the Canon guy the smoker/drinker?

There are actually two versions of the Nikon image, one with a drink, and one without.
I still haven't seen any Nikon smokers though!
On a different note, I thought this picture was absolutely ridiculous and the entire feeling of the announcement was extremely pretentious.

EOS Bodies / Re: Wait for the Canon 5D Mark IV or get the Mark III?
« on: October 31, 2013, 10:29:27 PM »
i talked to my local rep and heard the IV was going to be rather underwhelming.
i'd wait for the V.

people can make as many excuses or give as many reasons as they want why these results don't matter.
the fact is, if this score was had by a Canon camera, people here would be doing backflips and high fives for weeks.
end of story.

Speedlites, Printers, Accessories / Re: Camera Sling
« on: October 22, 2013, 10:33:23 AM »
i have a bosstrap. i used it in the past with a 5DC and 24-105 and now with another even heavier rig.
i really like it a lot and it seems very secure. I chose this one because I don't like the idea of using the tripod screw as the connection point for the strap..
I felt like i would constantly be checking if it was coming unscrewed or even worse, it would just fall one day. I really liked the bosstrap solution, it's cheap(relatively,) fairly light, and sturdy.

the Nikon rumor is extremely exciting. Nikon's current sensors are pretty awesome, and having the 16mp D4 sensor in a small size would be a real gift from Nikon, especially if it is a reasonable price!
I know others disagree, but personally I love Nikon's lens lineup too. They have great colors, decent prices, some interesting exotics, nice vintage pieces, and perform pretty well. Having their lens lineup, sensor performance, AF, all with a smaller form factor would be awesome!!!
I hope Canon has something to counter these new cameras soon! the more competition the better!

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« on: October 21, 2013, 02:14:00 AM »
this camera sounds truly amazing. i'm very excited about this. i'm a little worried that it weighs 750g!!! I really hope that the price is reasonable(below 3k, hopefully around 2k.)
This is an extremely exciting camera and i'm definitely going to consider canceling my Sony preorder for the a7 and lens. in fact, i'm almost definitely going to cancel my Sony if this thing is close to what is described and under 3000 bucks.
Since i've been looking at the Sony i've been a little worried about the lack of native lenses, lack of AF with adaptors, the large and expensive LE A4 adaptor for A mount lenses, and now the reviews saying RF lenses perform poorly on the a7.
I love the 16mp sensor idea!!!! I really hope it has something special to make MF easier(split prism,etc), and I really hope the price is not like 4k!!!
If Nikon can deliver this camera for a great price it is going to be huge!

Canon's sensor tech is fine, but there is certainly not a consensus that it's the best(at least outside of this forum.)
I have been very interested in the M9 for a long time, but for a plethora of reasons it was a no go for me.
The sensor tech of Sony has been much hyped since the D800/D600 and I'm extremely pleased to have an extremely modern 24mp sensor, with focus peaking, in a size smaller than any other FF camera on the market.
While this is not going to replace a DSLR for professional use in many cases, I think it will be a huge hit among enthusiasts(and pros) who want a fun camera to travel with or carry around everyday.
As others have noted earlier, you can just buy this camera and use it with your Canon EF lenses, along with other lenses you might have around too(or any other lens you'd want to buy.)
For anyone criticizing this camera, remember this, it features the most modern sensor available at the lowest price available for a FF, all in the smallest size of any FF camera on the market(besides RX1.)
If you don't like it, you certainly don't need to buy it, but I find this camera to be MUCH more exciting than any other camera i've seen in a long, long while.

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