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Messages - Positron

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31
EOS Bodies / Re: 7D full frame
« on: May 27, 2012, 06:54:38 AM »
I'm genuinely curious about one thing which I've never understood.

Assuming the same pixel count, aside from the higher pixel density (which we know is not always a good thing), what is it that you gain with an APS-H sensor versus FF and cropping? It seems with FF you get more control over DoF, the ability to go wide if you need to, better low-light performance, and so on; whereas if you crop the final image back to an APS-H equivalent field of view, you're back where you started, just having had more options along the way. The only obvious benefits that jump out at me are the price, and the ability to discard the corners of the frame, which are generally not problematic on the long lenses favored by most APS-H aficionados. Is there something I'm missing?

Thanks in advance for clarifying.

32
EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 4D full frame
« on: May 27, 2012, 06:44:57 AM »
I believe the number "4" is bad and usually skipped in Japanese culture. Not sure of the validity of that statement, I just think I read that in a few places.


hows that working out for Nikon?

Good question. No clue. D4 is definitely harder to pronounce like death than 4D is, though.

I guess it's also worth considering that most of the people who are buying the D4 simply want the best, either because it's how they make their living or because they are serious enthusiasts. In that sense, they already know what they want and no name is going to change that, so maybe it's a moot point. In comparison, the target market for the camera we're talking about here is probably closer to the D800's demographic, and more likely to include people with a bit too much discretionary income who just want it because they heard it's a good camera.

You do bring up a good point though, and I'm curious if it has caused any problems for them.

33
EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 4D full frame (6D)
« on: May 26, 2012, 04:18:01 PM »
I see it differently. I think a lower priced FF body is just a rumor and the two new bodies coming are both 1.6

60D becomes a 70D with full time AF on video and partial weather sealing.
7D becomes 6D with 5D3's AF, lower noise ISO and an articulating screen.

I think FF goes from numbers 1-5 and everything above is crop.

Naming is not that simple when you have so many products. They've backed themselves into a corner a few times (see S100), but also remember that the 1D (non-s) series is not full frame; also that the EOS 500 and 650 by virtue of being film cameras are "full-frame", while the 500D and eventual 650D are and won't be.

In an ideal world, all this stuff would have been thought out ahead of time. However, in the real world, even the best visionaries cannot predict 25 years into the future.

34
Lenses / Re: Canon EF 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Coming [CR3]
« on: May 26, 2012, 04:09:15 PM »

RIGHT, Let us talk about phsical laws. A small sensor will only need a shorter focal length to give the same angle for a bigger sensor.  Micro 3/4 has a mutiplicayion factor of 2.  So the 14 mm Panasonic ancake lens will be equilvalent to a 28mm lens on a full frame.  The 14mm will need a total of 40mm (20mm for the lense, 20mm for the fringe depth). That is a ration of  2.86. Now apply this ration for the 28mm for FF. than it will need 80mm. That is physical Law. Sensor size does not matter???  The bigger the sensor, the bigger the lense for the same viewing angle.

Thr Fringe diatance can be set to anything by the manufacturer to suit the usage. NEX fringe is set so thin for the using of adapter for the OLD range finder lenses,like Leica, Canon etc.  The fringe distance can be set independent of the back focal plane distance.  For mirrorless, the lenses have the luxury of going inside of the body and into the body. Have you look at  the Leica wide angle lenses lately???  As the the rumores 1mm back focal distance lens from Canon, it is going to be huge. In order for it to work, the rear element of the lens MUST cover the whole sensor. What it mean is the lense will ge going inside of the fringe and way into the body. You just cannot make a cmera body with a 1mm fringe distance.

Here comes the phsical law again. the size of the optic is determined by the focal length, speed of the lens and the associated mechanical and electronics part. It got nothing to do wit hthe fringe distance (except for wide angle lens for range finder cameras, that is another story). Just look at the pancake lens from Panasonics. The optics are small, the lens dismeter is large. That is for the mechanical and theelectronis component. It has got nothing to do with the fringe distance.

You've got your physics a little mixed up and the topic/areas being discussed here too it seems.

When we talk about back focus plane distances and how it affects the size of the lens, we are referring to sensors of the same and equal size, not across different sizes.   When you get one design with a back focus plane at 1mm versus one at 30mm, the optics required for the shorter one is smaller.  Par equal area of focus and within limits of optics diffraction. Which is why Leica comes into such a picture. It was design to use FF (in the film days) but yet for equivalent focal length and aperture lens, they were smaller than say Canon or Nikon designs, even if they were all full manual, non-AF lenses.

In this case of Canon's mirrorless, nobody seems to be certain for sure what's the sensor size. And we can only infer from the back focus plane distance that for the sensor size they are designing for, they are trying very hard to miniaturize the size of the lenses.  And for what ever size sensor they are using. Be it a FF,  1.3x, 1.6x or 1.85x crop, it SHOULD be (within limitations of cost and practicality) smaller than lenses designed for sensors of equivalent crop factor.

You are the one that mixed up the sensor size. I started out with the Canon 40mm pancake lens which is supposed to be for the FF. You switched the discussion to micro 4/3 and use it to justify a smaller lens.
My physics is right. The reason why some Leica lenses are smaller than DSLR lenses is that the 35mm lens for Leica does not need the retro-telephoto design that is manditory for DLSR. When you look at the 21 mm Leica  lens (it is a retro-telephoto design). It is not small at all. This proves that the fringe distance does not decrease the size of the lens. Even the 50mm Summicron, it is longer than the 50mm Canon DSLR lens.  The longer Leica lense is just as big as the DSLR lenses. FYI,  f stop is define as the focal length/diameter of the aperture. This will limit the minimum total size of the lens for a given focal length, regardless of the fringe. I suggest you look at the Leica lenses physically before any further  discussion. just as I said before if there is a 1mm back focus plane lens exist, the rear element must cover the ENTIRE sensor to make it  work. Therefore this lens cannot be small.  Did you take a class in optics???

Well you could do it, but the challenges in keeping the aberrations in check would be daunting, to say the least.

On the other hand, if the sensor itself were sufficiently curved, you could get as close to it with a normal rear element as you please. A combination of the two approaches could be reasonable, while significantly slimming the total package.

Seriously though if anyone has it right it's Intel. They don't break what's working, they just slim it down a little more on every other iteration, using the ones in between to improve the current process. It works because no single step is too ambitious, so they always make forward progress and never have complete flops. Keep doing that for a few years and you can have some seriously killer products.

35
EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 4D full frame
« on: May 25, 2012, 10:28:21 PM »
I believe the number "4" is bad and usually skipped in Japanese culture. Not sure of the validity of that statement, I just think I read that in a few places.

Makes sense, Lumix went from the LX3 to the LX5, and the gf3 to the gf5.

So we should probably take the 4 off the table.

Also, like others have said, a lower number indicates higher end model.
The same argument was used to say that Canon wouldn't release a 1D Mk4...

The aversion isn't so strong that the number can't be used at all, but it is really bad, and I agree that they would avoid making the bulk of the name of a product the number 4, for fear of losing potential customers due to superstition. The worst part about it is that it has a multiplicative effect with other superstitions. To illustrate how bad it can be, in most rule sets for Japanese Mahjong, if all four players discard the same wind tile on the same turn, the game is instantly declared a draw, originally implemented for fear that if the game were to continue, all participants would die. Sadly, this isn't even that rare statistically; assuming that a player was willing to discard the fourth wind at all, it would occur approximately once every 750 games if all tiles had an equal chance of discard. In reality, once strategy is factored in, the true rate is much higher.

In the case of the 1D Mark IV, there are two things going on. One is that the number 4 is auxiliary to the name, and two is that "Mark IV" is canonically said in transliterated English even in Japan, made very easy to market as such because there's no direct Japanese translation for the word "Mark" used as such, so it no longer sounds anything like "death".

36
EOS Bodies / Re: 7D full frame
« on: May 25, 2012, 01:25:21 AM »
NO.

Thanks, I got a good laugh.

Using the 7D name on something that's not APS-C at this point would be a PR disaster; if you suggested it to Canon you'd get laughed out of the boardroom. By which I mean fired.

If they do introduce something *like* the 7D that's full frame, it would have to be named something else.

Like 5D Mark III.

37
Lenses / Re: Canon EF 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Coming [CR3]
« on: May 22, 2012, 08:07:02 PM »

- Sony NEX : 1.6 crop factor : shallow DOF but few lenses, where Canon has more than 60 lenses...


Remember that the NEX uses a different mount from the Alpha line, despite the exact same size sensor. Canon's EF line will not be meaningful for the vast majority of users if their mirrorless camera/cameras is/are small, as it must be if they want it to be popular.

38
EOS Bodies / Re: Loss in Resale Value of 5D Mk3
« on: May 19, 2012, 03:08:03 AM »
  There have also been reports of people wrapping themselves in light-blocking tape and burning themselves in effigy in front Canon's regional headquarters offices in the USA and several European countries, to protest Canon's inadequate fix for this problem.

I thought effigy was a place in France ... The same city that DXO is in ;)

Didn't the French just vote out President Nikonozy?

Do I hear a hint of... Sarkasm in your voice?

...Okay, I'll leave now.  :-X

Un tasse du the svp :)

Après un sortie de la photographie, oui?

Oui, même si je veux un appareil photo 1DX demain pour la course automobile. Un 5DIII n'a pas assez rapide fps - donc je vais photographier avec le 1D4.

Excuser-moi pour the garçon de l'école française

Moi aussi, l'école. Je ne veux pas de 1D X. Je n'aime pas de la course automobile.

no hablo! ;)

この方がもっといいですか?

39
EOS Bodies / Re: Loss in Resale Value of 5D Mk3
« on: May 19, 2012, 01:52:24 AM »
  There have also been reports of people wrapping themselves in light-blocking tape and burning themselves in effigy in front Canon's regional headquarters offices in the USA and several European countries, to protest Canon's inadequate fix for this problem.

I thought effigy was a place in France ... The same city that DXO is in ;)

Didn't the French just vote out President Nikonozy?

Do I hear a hint of... Sarkasm in your voice?

...Okay, I'll leave now.  :-X

Un tasse du the svp :)

Après un sortie de la photographie, oui?

Oui, même si je veux un appareil photo 1DX demain pour la course automobile. Un 5DIII n'a pas assez rapide fps - donc je vais photographier avec le 1D4.

Excuser-moi pour the garçon de l'école française

Moi aussi, l'école. Je ne veux pas de 1D X. Je n'aime pas de la course automobile.

40
EOS Bodies / Re: Loss in Resale Value of 5D Mk3
« on: May 18, 2012, 01:25:34 PM »
  There have also been reports of people wrapping themselves in light-blocking tape and burning themselves in effigy in front Canon's regional headquarters offices in the USA and several European countries, to protest Canon's inadequate fix for this problem.

I thought effigy was a place in France ... The same city that DXO is in ;)

Didn't the French just vote out President Nikonozy?

Do I hear a hint of... Sarkasm in your voice?

...Okay, I'll leave now.  :-X

Un tasse du the svp :)

Après un sortie de la photographie, oui?

41
EOS Bodies / Re: Loss in Resale Value of 5D Mk3
« on: May 18, 2012, 04:20:01 AM »
  There have also been reports of people wrapping themselves in light-blocking tape and burning themselves in effigy in front Canon's regional headquarters offices in the USA and several European countries, to protest Canon's inadequate fix for this problem.

I thought effigy was a place in France ... The same city that DXO is in ;)

Didn't the French just vote out President Nikonozy?

Do I hear a hint of... Sarkasm in your voice?

...Okay, I'll leave now.  :-X

42
EOS Bodies / Re: Loss in Resale Value of 5D Mk3
« on: May 17, 2012, 03:47:10 PM »
Quote
burning themselves in effigy in front Canon's regional headquarters

Well...if I were to burn myself, I'd rather do it in effigy. Hurts less. :)

Where were you in the DxO thread? And more importantly, where's the applaud button when you need it?

43
EOS Bodies / Re: Loss in Resale Value of 5D Mk3
« on: May 17, 2012, 12:06:50 AM »
Even though I can understand the sentiment of wanting an item you buy to maintain its resale value well, the idea of "selling it next month" voids any such argument.

I get a literal churning feeling in my stomach every time I see someone list a "brand new in box" item that has been removed from the box for pictures. unfocused's point about driving a car off the lot hits the nail on the head. Once you've opened the box, as a seller you should expect, and as a buyer you should probably demand, that the value decreases by about 15-20% immediately. It is at that very moment and no later that the item is "used", and resale value has everything to do with rate of depreciation, and almost nothing to do with its value after being removed from the packaging. The only, only thing for which that is not true is real estate, which is etymologically exactly why it has "real" directly in the name.

When a 5D1 is for sale, it's extremely common to hear potential buyers ask if it's had the mirror fix done. If the answer is yes, they are happy to buy it. NOBODY says "oh, it had the mirror fix, so it was a defective unit, and therefore I won't buy it".

A more extreme example is when people post MacBook Pros for sale on Craigslist, and the post says something like "2009 MBP 15", perfect condition, just needs a new LCD and hard drive and it will be good to go. $750". It sounds like a joke to any reasonable person, which is probably why I see the same posting still up a month later.

I know this was an incredibly roundabout way to say it, but buy the camera you want for yourself, use it well, and when you're ready to sell it, consider what you get for it a bonus. You'll be a lot happier than if you consider whatever you fail to recoup a loss.

44
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
« on: May 16, 2012, 11:48:04 PM »
Great! (When do we get the bg-e11?)

Also, the image CR keeps using for these "mirrorless" posts has a prism...and therefore has a mirror...am I wrong about that?

It's just an artist's rendition. Also, see OM-D.

45
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
« on: May 16, 2012, 04:14:39 PM »
Wouldn't it technically be three cameras? The T4I..the 650D...and then some mirrorless camera?

Just because it's two SKUs doesn't mean it's a different camera.

Besides, you missed the Kiss X6.

Nobody says that Apple released 6 iPhones last year (16/32/64GB and Black/White).

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