Messages

61

EOS Bodies / Re: mhm... open letter to canon?

« on: September 26, 2012, 07:56:10 AM »

...
looking at the 6D and the price tag of 2099 euro... i don´t see why they could not include an AF similiar to the 7D´s.

the 6D is not so expensive to manufacture (it´s just a FF 60D) and none of it´s features justify the price.
it´s because canon thinks they can charge that money.

and if they made that decision (crippling the AF)  because they want to protect 5D MK3 sales.... why not giving the 5D MK3 the GPS and WIFI features?

that makes no real sense to me... 
maybe canon thinks the 5D MK3 customers are more likely to buy the overpriced canon grips?
...
or at least all AF points should be cross sensors.. is it that hard?

I know from other consumer products (I'm a mechanical engineer, desining stuff) how difficult it is to find a balance between features an price. So I would be very carefull to question Canons logic in the way they put features into a camera.

I'm sure you can't tell us how much the 7D AF costs, and how much the one in the 6D is, or what is the price for the GPS and WiFi integration. I know, your reaction will be, this is not expensive, there are SD-Cards with WiFi and every smartphone has GPS and so on. But there is a price tag on every feature that is included in a consumer product. The marketing sets a target price, and tells the engineering department in what features it must differ from the cameras above and below in the range.
Is the 6D therefore a rip-off at 2099$? No, because you got a camera that has features included that are worth 2099$
(Well actually they are worth much less, since the price of the camera includes much more than the cost of the pieces it is made of; R+D, manufacturing, logisitcs, marketing, profit (for Canon and the reseller) and so on).

What you can do, is complaining, that you would like to have other features, but then you also need to tell which of the existing ones you like to drop.

For the 6D this means for example, that if you like to have all cross type AF-Sensors, then you probably need to live without the -3EV in the middle, and have all -1EV. You weight up, what you do prefer.

62

EOS Bodies / Re: mhm... open letter to canon?

« on: September 26, 2012, 07:37:08 AM »

...Although, realistically, I suspect it will be a sales success and the Canon execs will probably sit around slapping each other on their backs saying how awesome they (and the 6D) are.

If it becomes a sales success, then Canon did mostly right with the 6D. There will always be some people who had wished for another camera, or think that more should be included for the same price. But that is just the way it is.

63

EOS Bodies / Re: mhm... open letter to canon?

« on: September 26, 2012, 02:52:21 AM »

with all the complains about canons 6D autofocus why is no website, that cares about canon in one way or the other, writing an open letter to canon... demanding a statement?

i mean.... dpreview wrote it´s a rather dissapointing camera and i have yet to read a preview that is not puzzled by the low-tech AF.

if we complain here in a forum .. canon cares a sh*t.

but if a popular and frequented website writes something and is not afraid to tell the truth... maybe canon will take notice and feel obligated to react?

or maybe it´s to late here and im just bored and tired.....

Move on, buy a Nikon D600, and enjoy the greener grass on the other side....


...and then you will meet a guy who is focusing with its -3EV center AF-Point where the Nikon is completly blind. You can't have it all. I moslty use my center point only, since it is the best I've got, and it is the best way get in-Focus shoots with my old heavily used EOS 350D.

64

EOS Bodies / Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon

« on: September 24, 2012, 03:22:29 AM »

Canon has some catching up to do with respect to sensor performance as measured by http://www.DxOMark.com. Canon doesn't even come close to the top performing Nikons.  (High score is better.):

Pts Model
=======
96 Nikon D800E
95 Nikon D800
94 Nikon D600
81 Canon 5D III
79 Canon 5D II

Forget those numbers, they don't mean very much. What does a score of 96 mean? Do you or we know how they calculated this score? DXOmark says 5 points means about 1/3 stop; but this still leaves the question 1/3 stop in what aspect, at which ISO and so on.

The measurments from DXO are well done, the give a synthetic result of how a sensor behaves. The problem comes when we need to translate these measurments into real world conditions. The DXOmark who mixes all the different data points into one number is not a very good way to do so.

If you like to see real world comparisons, you are much better of at dppreview, or at the-digital-picture (mainly Canon stuff). There you can see real pictures and compare which look you like better.

65

EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]

« on: September 24, 2012, 02:37:52 AM »

Should hit shelves about 2015. The one thing I hate about Canon is that they make an announcement and then it is months before the product is available. Getting tired of that. Why don't you wait until you are only a week or two away from release before making the announcement?

This is funny. The memory plays tricks on us. It was maybe two years ago, when people on the other side (Nikon) were complaining, that Nikon is announcing products, and that it takes them so long to deliver. Canon at the same was able to deliver right to the spot. Now times have changed, Nikon is fast, and Canon is slow.
Just wait for another year or two, and things will change again. Canon needs to catch up in the sensor department, so they announce their products early, to keep people at bay.(Two years ago it was Nikon who needed to catch up, so they were early to announce products).

What can we do about it? A) Complaining in online forums, about how much Brand X or Y suck because of whatever? B) Switch brands every 4 years? C) Just live with these cycles, and take some nice pictures with already great equppment in the meantime?

I'll go with C.

66

Pricewatch Deals / Re: Buying from Switzerland

« on: September 21, 2012, 04:32:22 AM »

there are many online vendors in Switzerland. My personal favorite and as far as I know one of the most successful vendors in Switzerland is www.digitec.ch. There prices are quite good and they are very honest regarding delivery times. They have several shops, so that you can order online and then pick up the wares in the shop most convenient for you.

I know this reads almost like advertising, but no, I am not working for digitec, I am just one of their many customers.

Digitec is rellay great; I orderd my 35mm f2 there at 09:00 in the morning, and could pick it up the same day at 16:00. Great service.

67

Lenses / Re: Were EF-S lenses a bad idea?

« on: September 19, 2012, 08:48:24 AM »

First, how did the EF-S story beginn?
An APS-C sensor needs other lenses at the wide angle side. You can build them smaller, lighter an cheaper. So every maker of lenses (Canon, Nikon, Zeiss (Sony), Sigma, Tamron, Tokina) started to make those lenses. All of them stuck to the same dimensions at the back of the lens, as they had on a FF body, except Canon.
I think the most logic reason about why they did that was, that it gave them more flexibility in the lens design. A few milimeters more are welcome there. And why not do this? Which pro with a FF-Camera would ever mount those cheap APS-C lenses on their bodies?
Times are changing; some APS-C lenses cost over 1000$ and offer very good quality, while FF-Bodies are below 2000$ now. So many people are moving up from APS-C to FF. This causes the APS-C-Lens on a FF body (only for EF-S-lenses). But how big of a problem is this?
Sure, there are some photographers, who need to sell their expensive EF-S 17-55 f2.8 and EF-S 10-22mm (mine will be up for sale soon), in order to go to FF, and buy new wide angles and standard zooms. But be honest, when you move up to FF, you don't like to use your 17-55 f2.8 anymore. The APS-C lenses would only be there as long as you need to buy an all FF set. Then why would you buy a FF body, if you only use the APS-C area?

68

Canon General / Re: Is it time for the "CEO" of Canon's DSLR division to resign?

« on: September 19, 2012, 08:23:51 AM »

If you wanted to know what Canon could do better, you would start with everything that Magic Lantern does.

Especially because magic latern is a direct competitor for Canon...
Apps on a DSLR, that is a nice idea.Maybe some interesting stuff comes up. But actually, I would rather like to see a WiFi connection to my Smartphone, so I can run the stuff on my Phone (mainly because a Camera is not made to play arround, but to take pictures). Maybe if the apps where more like modules that I can switch on and off, and give me some ne features.
MLU with shutter timer; not really an innovation, but there is an easy workarround with focusing in live view with the new cameras.

The only things I would consider innovative you mentioned, did not come from a canon rival (sony,nikon), so why don't you bash the whole industry?

69

EOS Bodies / Re: 6D Sync speed only 1/180s?

« on: September 19, 2012, 06:09:03 AM »

Not photographers.  Maybe armchair spec readers.

 

Good point

70

Canon General / Re: Is it time for the "CEO" of Canon's DSLR division to resign?

« on: September 19, 2012, 06:08:03 AM »

Innovations... the question I asked is how is Canon a market leader in DSLRs for innovation. What you've said kind of backs up my point - they haven't innovated in any specific way of significance.

Image Qualitiy: according DXOmark definitly not, but real world shooters are very happy with their 5D3 espacially in low light

Happy with low light amongst their owners does not mean that they are a market leader in that category.

Again, the statement made was that Canon is a market leader in DSLRs, my questions are searching for ways in which that is true.

Features: I'm not sure about what features you are talking about. There are features, and there are gimmicks...

I'm not referring to specific features but rather does Canon provide cameras with "market leading" features, to which the answer seems to be an emphatic "No".

If you only trust DXOMark or dpreview, then check out their test of the 5D3 and the D800. The overall rating shows both cameras at the same level. The D800 has some advantage in Image quality, but it is nowhere as big as DXOMark suggests (and dpreview works with real pictures, and not with some synthetic measurements.

Conclusion: The EOS 5D3 has not an image quality problem, it just not the leader of the pack anymore (maybe we will see the rumored EOS 3D in the 40MP range, and this will change the picture again).

Let's go to innovation; who do you think is the leader in innovation in the DSLR market?


Again, Canon is doing fine. Their products make sense. So the call for the CEO to resign is nonsense.
And again, a question what are the other companies doing better than Canon?

71

Pricewatch Deals / Re: Buying from Switzerland

« on: September 19, 2012, 05:34:21 AM »

The prices are very nice in Switzeland at the moment. I hope they won't change to soon.
Actually, you just have to try it to take it over the border. It shouldn't be a problem, it did it the other way round (into switzerland). You should make sure though, that you throw away the box, and store the receipt and the manual far away from the camera, so if they make a search they won't get suspicious. A little bit dirt and grease on the camera should also help (maybe you've got an old lens to mount on it).

72

Canon General / Re: Is it time for the "CEO" of Canon's DSLR division to resign?

« on: September 19, 2012, 02:06:50 AM »

Innovation? No.
Image quality? No.
Features? No.
Ripping off customers? Yes.

Canon still has the largest market share in the DSLR market, so the position of the CEO is not in question.

Innovation: Is a megapixel race innovative? (D800), and translucent mirrors are also nothin new (just a way to differentiate Sony cameras from Nikon and Canon)
Image Qualitiy: according DXOmark definitly not, but real world shooters are very happy with their 5D3 espacially in low light, and the Rebel-Line wins most comparisons in IQ compared to other DSLR's (again, not in synthetic DXOmark test, but in real world tests.
Features: I'm not sure about what features you are talking about. There are features, and there are gimmicks...
Ripping of costumers: This is not Canons problem. At a certain price there is a demand for certain products, and an offer. Those two meet somewhere, and it seems that Canon can sell a lot of stuff at the price they ask.

Also interesting, if Canon cameras are as bad as you say, so why can they sell more cameras than Nikon at a higher price?

73

Canon General / Re: Is it time for the "CEO" of Canon's DSLR division to resign?

« on: September 18, 2012, 11:08:23 AM »

The revealing of the 6D has got to be one of the biggest anticlimaxes in Canon's recent DSLR history. Never has a camera wasted so much potential to score well. If Canon were alone and the only manufacturer producing a cheaper DSLR then it would probably be doing better amongst the Internet forums but unfortunately for Canon, there is the Nikon D600, alongside which the 6D appears as a "huh?"

The 5D Mark III also suffered a lot, primarily because of the rise in price without a commensurate rise in IQ. Again, if you took away the Nikon D800, it doesn't appear too bad but again, there is nothing exciting about it.

Now that all of Canon's cards are on the table for this year, you're left wondering what were they thinking? That Nikon and Sony would just stand by and not enter the market? Or did Canon simply underestimate what they've been able to do in CMOS sensor development?

The 1DX is out there by itself. It is a remarkable piece of equipment, tailor made for its target audience. And perhaps that's where Canon's problem is: it doesn't really know who the audience is for the 5D3 and 6D. Why wouldn't it know that? Because so many people bought the 5D Mark II, it became impossible for Canon to understand all the details of who was using it, how and why.

Thus the success of the 5D Mark II may have actually killed Canon in multiple ways. First they've become complacent because they've thought they could just tweak it a little here and a little there, increase the price and everyone would fall over themselves in love. That hasn't happened, in part because of the price and in part because it was just tweaking. In the second, as above, the camera has had such wide appeal that it became impossible for them to fully grasp why it succeeded and thus they didn't know how to repeat that success. This is likely just an accident of history as much as anything else. Thirdly, in not knowing who to listen to or why the 5D Mark II was such a success, they've ended up listening to the wrong folks about what camera Canon would need to succeed.

Thus given what the 5D3 and 6D have revealed to be, I think that the only option for Canon is remove the people who made the final decisions about which features should be in/out and the price for the camera. I think it is more than evident that they targets for both cameras simply wasn't high enough and thus Canon has underperformed.

Sorry, but it has to be said. Your analysis is complete nonesense. I do not like to go into details, just for the 5D2-5D3 comparison. True, the 5D3 has only a small advantege in IQ, but a far superior AF-System, much higer framerate, and better high ISO capabilities. Sure, the price is high, but it is NEW! and people like new (that's why some people had to wait quite some time for the camera).
And I think if consumers buy Canon stuff by the numbers they do at the moment, there will be no call from the shareholders at the CEO to resign.

Then the other part I do absolutly not like about your post is, the way you present Canon products as not being made for their costumers. Well if they did, they would need to build 2 dozens of FF-Camera types, and the twice as many APS-C bodies, and another dozen EOS-M. It is just not possible to make a camera that fullfills everybodys wishes, or it would simply be too expensive to build.

I would like to hear from you, what features the canon cameras exactly should have, and what the price point of them should be (to simply say everything they make is wrong, is easy).

74

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: For those whose paid full price on 5d III, how do you feel about the price drop?

« on: September 18, 2012, 08:07:17 AM »

I have mixed feeling for Canon when I saw the price drop.

Second, this is just me - Canon allows or accepts the price drop nearly 25% on a 6 months old body....THAT IS NOT RIGHT. This is a lesson & learn for me.

Am I going to place another pre-order with Canon in the future?  am I going to continuous with Canon products??? Time will tell.

This is nothin new. There are websites dedicated to monitor the prices of tech products. A short look there will reveal, that it is not wise to order a product as soon as it is announced, simply because you have to pay a premium to be one of the first to have this product.
My advice, wait at least 3 month after the introduction, with a product, that has shipping problems in the beginning (like the 5D3, wait even longer)

Should you order the 6D now for 2100$ ? Well if you have spare money then go on, but wait for 3-5 month, and you can get it for 1800$. Wait another year, it will be down to 1500-1600$. You won't be among the first to have the brand new camera, and you have to live a little bit longer with your old one, but it will save you money (and the quality should also be better of the later produced cameras).

As long as there are so many people out there, who always like to have the newest toys, companies will charge you extra.

75

Canon General / Re: Loving Canon right now.

« on: September 18, 2012, 05:47:52 AM »

I will contribute to that wake up call. Once I "upgrade" from my current 7D to FF and need to sell my EF-S glass anyway 10-22, 17-55, 60 Macro I will also sell my EF glass 40/2.8, 50/1.4, 100/2.0, 70-200/2.8 II and take my money elsewhere, if all Canon has to offer is overpriced and underspecced cr*p.

Then good luck and enjoy the grass that is greener on the other side...

The 6D at 2100$, it's still a lot of money, but it is the same as a similiar speced D600. (D600 has more AF-Points, and bigger zone metering, built in flash, dual card slot, while the 6D has WiFi and GPS). But you can be sure, that that price will drop, like the one of the 5D III is starting to do. Early adopters pay extra. As long as there are people around who think they need the newest eqiupment the moment it is announced, so long companies will be able to charge them extra. The 6D will go as low as 1600$ within 2 years, which is a fair price for such a camera.

And no, Canon has not really a problem with their sensors, at least not among people who take pictures, instead of reading dxomark, and comparing the numbers as if they were Horsepower and 1/4mile times.
Shoot at ISO 100 and the D800 will give you the possibility to take details out of underexposed parts because of its high dynamic range, but shoot in low light, and the 5D III will give pictures with much less noise. You decide what you prefer, and what your needs are.

True, Canon lost its advantage it had over Nikon in the sensor department. And Sony makes great sensors (not cameras, so far). But the real looser in this game won't be Canon, it will be Nikon. Sony uses Nikon to help them finance their chip production and development, because alone Sony would be nowhere near Canon volume. But if Sony market share grows, they will not need Nikon any longer...