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Messages - x-vision

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EOS Bodies / Re: New Sensor Tech in EOS 7D Mark II [CR2]
« on: September 09, 2014, 03:58:51 PM »
• The EOS 7D Mark II sports a 20.2 MP sensor but it is not the same sensor as featured on the EOS 70D

Well, I really hope so. Otherwise, the 7D2 is DOA for me personally.

As I said in another thread, Canon will be missing a golden opportunity if the 7DII has the same sensor as the 70D.

With better IQ than the rest of the crop (hehe), the 7DII will be in a class of its own.
But with the same IQ, it would be just a niche camera for a specific group of users.

My 2c.

EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: 1DX vs D4s
« on: September 09, 2014, 03:52:08 PM »
Re: 1DX vs D4s

At this level of cameras, performance differences - if any - don't really matter.
I'm assuming that your 1DX is paired with a bag of the most expensive Canon L lenses.
So, you are much better off staying with Canon.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Nikon D750 to be Canon 5D3 competitor?
« on: September 07, 2014, 08:15:19 PM »
So what you are saying is smart Canon shooters bought into the 1Ds MkIII and haven't upgraded?

Keith Cooper from Northlight Images appears to be one of these smart shooters.

But in general no, what I said just explains the bitching and moaning about DR and sensor performance of Canon sensors.
Seven years (not just in Tibet) is a very long time  8).

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Nikon D750 to be Canon 5D3 competitor?
« on: September 07, 2014, 07:39:35 PM »
... (we won't mention the 7D,60d,60da,550,650,750,SL1,1200 et al 18mp APS-C sensor) :P

Let's also not mention that we haven't seen any tangible performance increase in a Canon FF sensor since the 1DsIII in 2007 (seven years ago).
But other than that, it's all roses in Canon land.

[now playing U2]
You've got to get yourself together
You've got stuck in a moment
And now you can't get out of it


Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Nikon D750 to be Canon 5D3 competitor?
« on: September 07, 2014, 04:16:27 PM »

I am sure if and when better sensors are developed, Canon will bring them out. But till then, let's face it- you either 'satisfice' yourself with the excellent tools they already have, or switch- as long as the benefits outweigh the costs.

... or, you bitch about it, since you neither want to switch (you've spent enough already), nor 'satisfice'.

And if someone else tells you that there's nothing to bitch about, they are completely wrong.
I am entitled to bitch as much as I want to - just because I am 8).

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Nikon D750 to be Canon 5D3 competitor?
« on: September 07, 2014, 03:33:12 PM »
IMHO, the D750 is the camera Nikon should have released two years ago to replace the D700.

Well, I agree ... but only partially.

At a time when 21-24mp was considered high resolution, Nikon went all the way to 36mp.
So, it looked as though Nikon overdid it - at the expense of frame rate and general usability.

But two years later, I'd say that the 5DIII now looks outdated vs the D810, which is definitely more future-proof.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Nikon D750 to be Canon 5D3 competitor?
« on: September 07, 2014, 03:14:16 PM »
Its kind of funny that he constantly brings up market share as if its a good thing in these discussions when all it does is illustrate exactly why Canon has literally no incentive to do anything at all.  Its rah rah my team cheerleading and that's about it.


Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Nikon D750 to be Canon 5D3 competitor?
« on: September 07, 2014, 03:13:38 PM »

So, I wonder why all these 'photographers who need the Exmor/DR/4K etc.' don't go out and buy the D800/E cameras?

Look, man, people stay with Canon in large part because of the excellent Canon lenses - not because they are OK with the sub-par performance of Canon sensors.

Is there a Canon lens introduced in the past 10 years that has been a dud?
Some of these lenses were overpriced at introduction (e.g. 24-70/4L, the wide IS primes).
But after the inevitable price correction, mostly all offer good value for their excellent performance.

In addition, Canon has been very smart about pushing video in their DSLRs.

Overall, there's plenty to like about Canon's system.
Canon has done quite a few things right  and that has obviously helped them maintain their leading market share.
No arguments about that.

But you guys take all this to mean that only few people care about DR and sensor performance in general.
That's definitely untrue.

People do care about DR and sensor performance and I strongly believe that the 7DII will prove this.
If it reuses the 70D sensor (as it appears from the rumored specs), I predict that this camera will be met with indifference - despite its excellent specs overall.

Also, as I said in another thread, the 5DIII successor is the camera that is most at risk for Canon if it doesn't deliver the high resolution and high DR that Canon users expect. We'll see.

But even if Canon continues to maintain its leading market share, there will be always users like me who would be critical of sensor performance if lags behind the competition.

What's wrong with asking that the vendor of my choices excels in both lenses and sensors? How is that unreasonable??

I bought into the Canon system because it was the best at the time (in my price bracket).
Why should I be happy that this is no longer the case - despite that Canon is maintaining their market share.
And why settle for sub-par sensor performance just because I like Canon lenses better??

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Nikon D750 to be Canon 5D3 competitor?
« on: September 07, 2014, 01:47:09 PM »
The 5D III with a SMALLER body???

I'm not disagreeing with you - and I'm not saying that the 5DIII should have been smaller.

Just saying that I've been expecting a camera like the D750 since in 2012.
And in 2012, I was expecting that the 5DIII would be that camera.
But that was from my point of view, though; Canon obviously had different ideas.

After the D810 and D610, Nikon is now rumored to have a third FF model in their lineup.
And from the rumored specs, that's the model that I'd be most interested in.
Hopefully Canon will have a similar model.
That's all.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Nikon D750 to be Canon 5D3 competitor?
« on: September 07, 2014, 12:56:14 PM »
The way I look at it, the D750 will be a great addition to Nikon's lineup.

Back in 2012, I was expecting that Canon would beef up the AF system and frame rate of the 5DII,
make the body smaller, and lower the price to $2500.

In other words, back in 2012, I was expecting a D750 from Canon.
(My expectations at the time were based on where the DSLR market appeared to be going.)

Instead, Canon released the 5DIII at a much higher price - but also obviously targeted at pros.
So, not only it was much more expensive, it was also big and heavy and overall an overkill for an enthusiast/consumer like me.

Canon's decision to make the 5DIII a true pro camera is understandable and fully justified.
My point is that from my perspective as an enthusiast/consumer, a camera like the rumored D750 made
sense to me even back in 2012 - before Canon updated the 5DII.

Both the 6D and D6100 are targeted at enthusiasts/consumers.
However, these cameras are expensive enough to be justifiable only as long-term purchases.
And yet, their specs are not good enough for such purchases, IMO (the AF system in particular - especially on the 6D- are lacking).

So, as far as I'm concerned, the rumored D750 hits the bullseye.
It's supposedly an action camera but I see it as a well spec'd general purpose FF camera for enthusiasts/consumers.
The specs are good enough for the long term - which in turn justifies the high price.

We can only hope that Canon will be responding in some way to the D750.

Btw, I don't see the D750 as a 5DIII/D810 competitor.
As I said, it's really a well spec'd FF camera for enthusiasts, while the 5DIII and D810 and pro cameras.

EOS Bodies / Re: The day of the anti-climatic announcement
« on: September 05, 2014, 04:50:34 AM »
the fact of the matter is, a 7DII with an improved AF, higher FPS and a sensor similar to the 70D is a disappointment.
not because the specs are so terrible or it's not a significant upgrade but because it took so long to be announced. This camera could have been announced a year or two ago and wouldn't have been shocking.
At this point, people perceive Canon's sensor performance as stagnating. It was hoped that the 7DII would be the camera to change this. With a sensor similar to previous models it reinforces the notion that Canon has not been able to significantly improve upon sensor performance. This  is Canon's own fault for releasing so many 18mp sensor cameras and then the rather uninspiring 70D.
Back to my original point, all of these missteps would be less annoying if the 7DII had been announced a year or two ago. But by slowly drawing it out and building hype and excitement they have set themselves up for disappointment from people who already own similar products from the past and want something newer feeling.


Just to clarify, though: the hype was created by us, Canon users - not by Canon.

But on the other hand, I don't think the expectations of Canon uses have been unreasonable.

Over the years, the DxO overall scores for Nikon crop cameras have improved from 61 (D80) to 83 (D7100).
For the same period of time, Canon has improved from 62 (20D) to 68 (70D).
So, it's a 21-point improvement for Nikon vs 6 points for Canon (and it's the exact same story for FF cameras as well).

So, when the 7DII scores 69 at DxO, should I be disappointed - or am I supposed to cheer ??
Is it that unreasonable for Canon users to want to a more sizable improvement ??

EOS Bodies / Re: The day of the anti-climatic announcement
« on: September 05, 2014, 04:29:10 AM »
at this point I would like to see a new forum rule.


* Failure to comply results in ... Ban.

OMG, you are the Canon police. I knew it  8).

EOS Bodies / Re: A Rundown of Canon at Photokina
« on: September 03, 2014, 01:50:38 PM »
The AF might be awesome, but other than that it sounds awfully conservative for such an exceptionally long wait since the 7D.


The difference – which completely obviates any similarities – is that neither pros nor consumers are switching en masse to Nikon.

At the consumer level, DR is hardly a factor when choosing one brand over the other.
It does matter at the high end, though.
Also, high DR is not the entire story, mind you.

You keep claiming that Canon's market share is unaffected by the DR advantage of Sony/Nikon.
And so far this appears to be the case indeed.

The real test for Canon, though, will be the 5DIII successor.

More than high DR, Canon users actually expect to see better sensor technology from Canon.
The 5DIV (or whatever it is called) needs demonstrate real, tangible sensor improvements.
Otherwise, Canon's market share will start eroding - at least at the high end.

It's shortsighted to argue that the better DR of competing brands has not caused Canon to lose market,
implying that users don't care much.
As I said, this is not just about DR; it's about better sensor technology in general.

Many will wait it off for one generation.
But nobody is going to wait for 10 years for Canon to come up with better sensors.
If the 5DIV doesn't have a high-resolution/high-DR sensor, you can be sure that many will buy Sony/Nikon and be done with it.

Any thoughts?

Before 2007, Nikon didn't have FF cameras.
Even their top of the line pro model, the D2X, had a DX format sensor (1.5x crop).

So, at that time, Nikon apologists were claiming that the DX format was in fact better than FF.
One of their arguments, for example, was that FF suffers from soft corners and vignetting - and hence DX was better.

But while the apologists were arguing, pros were switching en masse to Canon.
Nikon, of course, took notice and started offering FF cameras.

Today, we have Canon apologists arguing that you don't need more DR (and resolution) than what Canon is already offering.
The situation is definitely not as bad as the DX vs FF scenario of the past but bears many similarities.

And while the Canon apologists are argueing that you don't need more DR and resolution,
my bet is that Canon is hard at work addressing these - as it will cost them dearly if they are not.

Also bear in mind that the DR debate didn't actually start whith the D800.
When the 5DII was introduced, it was very well liked and received.
Very soon, however, users started complaining about shadow noise and banding.

Thus, the so called DR debate didn't have anything to do with Nikon initially.
Instead, it was about the shadow noise and banding of the 5DII.
The D800 only added insult to injury with its high-resolution/high-DR sensor - at a time when Canon decided to reuse the same sensor, basically, in the 5DIII.

So, go ahead and brush this off as a case of 'the grass is greener on the other side' - if that suits you better.
But it's a safe bet that DR/resolution will be addressed by Canon.

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