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Messages - Ivar

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121
EOS Bodies / Re: End of the APS-H sized CMOS?
« on: June 27, 2011, 02:59:14 PM »
I haven't argued what you stated - if it is possible to process only x megapixels at 10fps, then you would rather have all "the pixels" in a denser form though in a smaller sensor area.

The question is, if there is more processing power (file, data, megapixels etc as you wish), whether it makes sense to make a FF 27MP camera or make a 1.3x 27MP camera (mechanically the ability is already there, it is only about the data)

I believe currently, that with today's technology, the pixel density doesn't matter for high ISO, but the size of the light capture area does - more pixels might not contribute to the higher ISO, but the overall quality is never less than bigger pixels at the same sensor area, for both at the same size print. This is the basis for the choice - would you like to have a better ISO or more magnification, being under the data processing constraint?

Ivar, I'm not gonna get into a tit-for-tat cut and paste exercise, it's clear you disagree with my point of view.  You simply ain't gonna get the same framerates with full frame as a crop frame, the files are smaller with a crop, which is why there will always be a market for a high end crop body.

If the Nikon range is so good, maybe you need to sell your Canon kit and swap to the dark side ;-)


122
EOS Bodies / Re: End of the APS-H sized CMOS?
« on: June 27, 2011, 10:43:58 AM »
Why do you think Canon should stop APS-H sensors? What is the interest for Canon?

Because Nikon gets all the benefits of having the advantage for more light. They can stuff easily more pixels, for Canon at this smaller sensor area not that much. Sports cameras are about ISO, isn't it?

As for the imaginable FF 1D price, it would still be closer to the current 1D line trend, Nikon cameras are quite good, the competition cannot be ignored.


123
EOS Bodies / Re: End of the APS-H sized CMOS?
« on: June 27, 2011, 08:40:09 AM »
Using the same technology, ALWAYS the bigger sensor wins in high ISO due to be able to collect more light.
As for actual products, it seems to me that the 1.3x is not the best option out there concerning high ISO, where did you get this idea? Also, frame rate has only to do with the amount of data to move, not to the sensor size. Imaginable 16MP FF 1D MK4 could have easily done the same 10fps as it does currently with the crop.

Quote from: Haydn1971
Simple really...   Take a look at the current camera body specs.

While the numbers are the same, the Nikon D3s looks better to me. If the 1D mk4 would have been a FF body, it had performed better for sure (=more light better image for the same technology). If you meant a comparison between the 1D & 1Ds then they are optimized for different purposes thus being different technology.

Quote from: Haydn1971
To answer your second part, a 16mp frame will be saved to a memory device quicker than a 21mp frame - it's about 75 % of the size, the 16mp frame will also be processed quicker than the 21mp frame for a given picture process engine.  Mixing in the Digic 4 process engine over the Digic 3 of the FF camera, is why the current 1.3x 1D has a frame rate roughly twice the speed of the current 1Ds.

This is what I said, the only limiter at least for 10fps was data and nothing else, sensor size doesn't matter.

Quote from: Haydn1971
With regard to the first point about ISO, again, read the specs, the newer 1D has a much greater performance in terms of ISO than the full frame sensor in the 1Ds or the later 5D.  I'm not a image sensor expert, I design roads for a living, but it seems plausible that the 1.3 crop sensor in the 1D has been optimised to provide better ISO performance than the then current full frame technology.  Should full frame technology be released in the next 12 months that match the 1.3 crop, I'm pretty sure the techniques will be deployed in the next 1.3 crop sensor to great affect.

As said, the technology is different. Apples to apples would be ISO optimized cameras, and there the Nikon D3s performs better.

Quote from: Haydn1971
Canon wouldn't be selling a £4k1.3 crop product if there wasn't demand for it's benefits, similarly they wouldn't by selling the £6k full frame product if everyone wanted the 5D instead.  Each camera has it's own advantages, it seems more implausible to imagine a gap between a 5D Mk3 at say £2.5k and a replacement 1Ds at a launch price of say £7-8k, the 1D sites slap bang in the middle. 

I didn't argue about the demand, I said Canon is having a bigger margin what concerns the cropper.

Quote from: Haydn1971
Sticking my neck out, I'd suggest that there is as much chance of the 1.3 crop disappearing as a 1.6 crop 1Dx in the future or a 3D appearing.

For me, for the former the probability is at least 2x higher if not more.

124
EOS Bodies / Re: End of the APS-H sized CMOS?
« on: June 26, 2011, 08:41:07 AM »
Using the same technology, ALWAYS the bigger sensor wins in high ISO due to be able to collect more light.
As for actual products, it seems to me that the 1.3x is not the best option out there concerning high ISO, where did you get this idea? Also, frame rate has only to do with the amount of data to move, not to the sensor size. Imaginable 16MP FF 1D MK4 could have easily done the same 10fps as it does currently with the crop.

The real or relative benefits for crop are:
* more spread AF points, for some reason they cannot be expanded in FF
* cheaper to make (take a note however, the 1D-series is no way cheaper  to buy though, it is just more margin for Canon. Reality check - look at the 5D MK2 FF price or check Nikon FF equivalents)
* due to data throughput constraint a smaller sensor allows more density, ie. magnification. This has, however, limited potential as technology improves.

I'm a tad baffled as to why people see the APS-H format as dead - others have said elsewhere that the 1.3x crop offers better picture quality than APS-C, but much faster framerates and much higher ISO performance than full frame sister products.

Using the car analogy, the family car is the APS-C, the luxury performance saloon is the full frame, but hang on, I want the performance, but don't need the four seats of the big car - I'll buy the sports car instead ! Want a hatchback car, buy a micro 4/3rds, want a cheap Korean runaround ? Buy a compact zoom camera.

125
EOS Bodies / Re: End of the APS-H sized CMOS?
« on: June 26, 2011, 06:03:53 AM »
I think at this point the only way to improve remarkably the IQ is to increase the light gathering area.

126
EOS Bodies / Re: 1D Mark 4 now???
« on: May 11, 2011, 05:58:20 PM »
I'm not so sure about the big wait on the next 1D - Nikon is supposed to have a major update on its D3s and even when postponed it is still not that far. While this is a personal opinion, I think the 1D MK4 which was supposed to be a major update in Canon's line was rather a catch up (announcement timing just right after Nikon's announcement, 100K worthless iso addition because of competition's sake, the need to get the AF right) to the modest mid-life update of the D3s. So, the upcoming D4 looks like a pretty serious competitor which cannot be simply omitted.

Well, I think it would be safe to assume that Canon would probably announce the 1Ds, 5D, and 7D successors before we start hearing things about the next 1D. That's three major products, so I think its reasonable to assume some "off time" between each announcement.

Now, if you factor in the effects of the tsunami, I don't think announcement would start until late 2011 at the earliest. Note - announcement, not the time the new products hit the shelf (which could be anyone's guess).

So it's going to take a while before it gets to the 1D line...

127
Canon General / Re: Delays Abound?
« on: May 05, 2011, 08:14:50 AM »
One more argument adding more weight to the delay - PMA 2011 trade show cancelled.

"There are some launches in fall, but the significant ones tend to be in the spring."
Source: http://www.dpreview.com/news/1105/11050410pma2011cancelled.asp

128
EOS Bodies / Re: A Random Roadmap: Lenses & Bodies [CR1]
« on: April 28, 2011, 10:08:15 AM »
The second is that the smaller sensor size allows a faster frame rate - dual Digic IVs could not achieve 10 fps from a FF sensor. 

In my understanding the DIGIC processing is in no way related to sensor size?

Thus, it is fully capable of FF 10fps assumed the megapixels number retains the same.



129
EOS Bodies / Re: A Random Roadmap: Lenses & Bodies [CR1]
« on: April 28, 2011, 09:46:19 AM »
I'm not familiar with the APS-H line, but I find this a little curious.

Switching to FF will make the owner's lenses a little short[er], while switching to APS-C will make them a little long[er]. A need to buy new lenses with a new body sounds like an opportunity to switch brand.

If Canon doesn't want to fall behind Nikon in high ISO department (quite reasonable desire for a sports camera) they have no choice but go bigger (no smaller sensor can compete with bigger one in high iso), otherwise iso-sensitive (also IQ sensitive) people switch brand too? Also, there are many eagerly waiting their lenses to act as they were designed for. Counting pros&cons might not always be straightforward.

130
EOS Bodies / Re: 1D & 1Ds Rumors [CR1]
« on: April 08, 2011, 06:21:37 AM »
This rumor is what it is but to me it sounds plausible.

131
EOS Bodies / Re: 3 More DSLR's in 2011? [CR1]
« on: April 05, 2011, 10:20:46 AM »
Yes Nikon are really good at undermining their Pro model sales with their lower tier cameras. The D3 sold really well upto the point when Nikon released the D700 (both great cameras btw). Canon are a little smarter in this regard, they create different AF modules for each price point. Nikon seem to put the same Pro AF into anything they can these days which can't be good for their business long term. Sometimes i look at Nikon's range and i struggle to work out which are the comsumer, pro-sumer and pro models.

I'm not so sure about the end results financially, high end cameras are sold much less in quantities. Also do not forget it is about selling a platform rather than camera only. Finally, for me Canon creates negative feelings (even though I might not switch I encourage those who asking advice sincerely consider Nikon too) by too carefully balancing every single product, leaving rather bad taste by providing on one hand generously high tech gadgets and on the other hand completely ignoring some old stuff having the need to be replaced.


132
EOS Bodies / Re: 5D3, 1D5 and 1Ds4 Timeline [CR1]
« on: March 27, 2011, 10:12:20 AM »
It’s been said before, but a new 1D in 2011. Announced in the June/July timeframe. Full frame this time around.

I think FF in the next 1D is inevitable. The only possible way to add more sensitivity (aren't we talking about sports cameras?)/image quality is to increase the light capture area. I fail to see Canon adding even more pixels to 1.3x area at this point. The 1.3x crop WAS a good balance, not anymore.

133
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« on: March 18, 2011, 07:27:46 PM »
Hopefully not, at least what concerns Canon. There can be only mediocre outcome when Canon participates - carefully balanced products which in no way compete inside the company's other products, meaning that they are basically handicapped seriously to provide future temptation for upgrades but having one or two very high tech capabilities in order to sell.

Couldn't canon release a Fuji X100 competitor as also completing their "Pro Compact Camera" line (S95 and G12)?

I'm talking about a low-light compact monster, that would expand their compact line.

S95 = very compact; G12= very adaptible; Mirrorless = low-light quality.

134
EOS Bodies / Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« on: March 09, 2011, 06:06:47 PM »
Looking at the competitive camera prices it seems Canon is not doing that well by being a little bit cheaper. Ok, maybe they are selling more quantities at lower prices than competition and being fine financially (a cropper is cheaper to produce anyway), but this also indicates some sort of weakness. For pro camera companies asking a premium is a sign of strength of their product.

Now that it is the year for Nikon for new releases I highly doubt Canon can wait much longer, so in my opinion 2012 is only possible for a release when at least one 1-series major upgrade is announced this year, right after or before Nikon's announcement.



135
EOS Bodies / Re: \
« on: January 26, 2011, 04:15:08 PM »
18MP on FF - because of the bigger sensel size and newer technology the 1D high ISO must look awful in comparison i.e. it is pretty clear if those specs materialise the 1D update must follow.

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